{"id":151209,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151209","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162723b64bdb11c3095db57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c94f2da86b135a0489d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:08:25 - 09:18:42","影片長度":"00:10:17","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":617,"end_time":"2024-04-17T09:18:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T09:08:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":142,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時8分）有請薛部長，謝謝。"],["主席：部長，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。部長，上次質詢的時候我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題，當時你也同意我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾的生成量。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們今天比較一下，請部長看一下左邊這個圖，過去這幾年來，末端的處理經費相對於源頭的減量經費，大家看到差距非常得大。我想請部長說明一下，你們有評估過，我們把管理的重點或資源放在哪一個端，是末端處理還是源頭減量，你剛剛也提到源頭減量的政策……"],["薛部長富盛：源頭減量，是。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是現在的差距這麼大，而且源頭減量編的經費到1億左右，這個相差大概二十倍，請部長是不是可以做一個說明？"],["薛部長富盛：我可不可以請環管署顏署長說明？"],["陳委員昭姿：可以，謝謝。"],["顏署長旭明：謝謝委員，跟委員報告，今年經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多，尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的期限……"],["陳委員昭姿：瞭解，硬體的部分。"],["顏署長旭明：所以在這一段期間，我們除了整改以外，對於現有的掩埋場也做一個加強的措施，所以投入比較多的經費。"],["陳委員昭姿：OK，我瞭解，那你這個經費其實在早期107年的差距更大，如果這幾年才進行焚化爐的整新，事實上過去是很大，現在是有下降，不過這個部分還是要考慮一下占比，就是最有效率的占比，你們也可以參考其他先進國家有沒有一個最適比例，當然不可能是一個極端值，就是最適比例，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，我們來檢討一下，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。部長，請您看一下左邊這張圖，這是去年5月在科學月刊的一篇科學性報告，您剛才提到限塑是一個非常重要的手段，假設塑膠處理方式不改的話，整個塑膠的年產量、垃圾年產量是一直往上升的，但這裡也有討論到幾個方法，其中控制跟減量，也就是源頭有望降低30%、替代材質降17%，回收再用可能降低20%等等，從源頭減量可以有最大程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生。如果我們看源頭減量跟回收再用，因為這是現在努力的方向，大概可以減少50%，我們是不是應該要從消費者的環保意識加上企業的社會責任認識去鼓勵他們？","部長，剛剛雖然您的報告一直提到在提減量，我要給你一個數字，我相信你也很熟悉，就是一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%，是塑膠產業最大宗，而且相當於每年有1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了，這是第一個數字。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：聯合國有一個計畫叫Turning off the Tap，簡單說就是關掉水龍頭，針對源頭的部分，他們的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案。部長，您對這個的看法跟想法呢？塑膠量還是很高啊！每年還在不斷上升啊！"],["薛部長富盛：我支持，臺灣真的是蠻特殊的，因為我們的化工產業相當發達，所以我們在這一塊源頭減量事實上是非常地重要，但是……"],["陳委員昭姿：要繼續努力啦！因為離理想還是差太遠，而且是越來越高，你再怎麼努力，結果還是越來越高……"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，不好意思，請看一下右邊，右邊這個是你們設了一個資源循環網絡，目的是解決廢棄物清理的計畫，它公布的時間在2022年11月，但是據我瞭解，這是最近的報導，迄今只有一案，只有日月光一案通過計畫申請，那這個成效很差啊！到底發生什麼事情啊？"],["薛部長富盛：好，我請我們賴署長來說明。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：是，跟委員報告，這個是推動我們的產業，就是事業可以結合上下游提報一個網絡的計畫。另外，因為產業比較不熟悉這個法規，所以我們有持續的來宣導，源頭減量部分有一大塊是消費面，我們是用法規來強制。"],["陳委員昭姿：你說不熟悉法規，我認為其中有一點，因為業者必須主動去找再利用的業者嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個部分其實政府是可以做一個協助，讓參與度再高一點，因為參與度不像話，到現在只有一家通過，而且這個是對於限塑，在塑膠部分是效果最好的一個。","我們再來談減塑，剛剛部長也有提到，我們已經在2002年第一次提出，剛剛部長有報告，針對塑膠袋、塑膠餐具，當時就開始做了一些限制，但是22年了，我們來看那個成果好嗎？雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少量，但是請大家看右邊這個圖，2013年到現在，10年以來，塑膠袋的成長率（以公噸計）是14.4%，塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7%。部長，嚇死人，68.7%耶！這個資料來源是經濟部統計處。我剛剛也聽到你提到幾大類的管制對象，我不曉得環境部有沒有掌握，針對這八大類管制對象評估部門表現，是哪個部門做得好或是沒做好，這都可以再加強啊！"],["薛部長富盛：跟陳委員報告，我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量根據類別做一個分析，事實上反而是在傳統市場、攤販以及夜市用塑膠袋的量……"],["陳委員昭姿：那就要修正你們的……"],["薛部長富盛：所以我發現這個之後，已經有請他們……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長理解很重要，那就往這個方向努力。","下一個我們來看碳的問題。因為根據氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後，淨零排碳非常重要。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程，包括永續管理師、碳權交易管理師，根據商周的報導，像鋼鐵、石化業、製造、營造業等等，這些高耗能的產業為了符合政府跟客戶的減碳規範，都急著找人才，可是有人把它視為商機。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是教大家怎麼買碳權來抵換，銷售不正確的知識，用這個來牟利，這有很多名詞，像是淨零、碳權、永續、ESG、碳管理為名，但是所謂的永續管理師跟碳資源管理師等，根本都沒有官方認證，那這怎麼辦？"],["薛部長富盛：都沒有。"],["陳委員昭姿：你從Google去看，這有很多課程、很多講師耶！"],["薛部長富盛：是，我瞭解，跟陳委員報告，我們也被這個困擾很久，我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業和民眾要注意，但因為他們基本上類似補習班一樣，環境部大概沒有權限去取締他們不能開這種班。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我瞭解，但是我接下來是要稱讚你們，下面這一張簡報，其實環境部也知道現在面對碳費機制很焦慮、產業界很焦慮……"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：你們這個月有辦了3場所謂碳盤查跟自願減量專案輔導……"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個很棒、這個很好，官方來做，知識才會正確……"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝，謝謝委員的肯定。"],["陳委員昭姿：但目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先，我知道報名非常踴躍，名額好像都滿了。"],["薛部長富盛：是，所以我們會加開。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，而且對象、範圍要增加其他的產業。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["陳委員昭姿：要自己來才會是正確的。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：最後一張簡報請部長看一下，根據內政部統計，今天內政部也有出席，關於房貸的負擔率，等一下你就會知道我為什麼講房貸，房貸負擔率在3成才算是合理的範圍，全臺大部分都超過3成，大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市在這個水準，房價持續升高，這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的議題。部長，我為什麼這樣講，我們來看高雄跟雲林這兩個縣市，他們是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地，也是所謂的高碳排地區，將來他們會對於高額碳費貢獻最大，他們要繳最多。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：這樣的話，這兩個縣市的平均所得又低於全臺灣的平均所得，因為碳費徵收之後，企業界的成本會增加，房價也一定會增加，其他的物價都不用講，房價也會增加，整個負擔更高，對於這些相對低收入的都市是非常嚴重的，所以隨著碳費的機制，你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套？不要讓這些受災戶成為綠色通膨受災，本來我們是美意，這個你有做規劃嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是，謝謝陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊，的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業，煉鋼、化學……"],["陳委員昭姿：是，他們平均收入低於全臺灣……"],["薛部長富盛：對，他們排碳量反而是比較高，所以他們會影響包括企業和周遭的……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我的意思是說，我知道這不是只有環境部可以處理，它是一個跨部會的問題，但是麻煩你在院會上提出來，讓行政院長趕快來處理這問題。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：我的結論就是，我希望全民能夠享受綠色轉型的好處，但是不要成為且要避免成為綠色通膨的重災戶，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：對，包括將來我們碳匯的分配，這些受到影響大的層次，應該給予……"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","下一位我們請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","陳瑩","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林淑芬","黃秀芳","張雅琳","洪申翰","蔡易餘","劉建國","陳冠廷","楊曜","蘇清泉"],"page_start":341,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事\n業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132901_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"151209","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151209","tool":"pyannote","id":"151209-pyannote"},"job_id":"p8S4cgTm4UgxLFoU","queued_at":"2024-06-01 09:42:29","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 09:42:29","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151209"},{"time":"2024-06-01 09:42:29","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162723b64bdb11c3095db57f63d1b53b7532e46fd9b657bbe930adb3a6b00095d47c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 09:42:47","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 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79.154, \"end\": 79.595, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 79.595, \"end\": 79.975, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 79.975, \"end\": 80.815, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 80.815, \"end\": 81.075, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 81.075, \"end\": 81.335, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 81.335, \"end\": 82.075, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 82.075, \"end\": 82.316, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 82.316, \"end\": 82.756, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 82.756, \"end\": 82.936, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 82.936, \"end\": 83.156, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 83.156, \"end\": 83.516, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 83.516, \"end\": 83.696, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 83.696, \"end\": 83.916, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 83.916, \"end\": 84.316, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 84.316, \"end\": 85.076, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 85.076, \"end\": 85.216, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 85.216, \"end\": 85.377, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 85.377, \"end\": 85.597, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 85.597, \"end\": 85.777, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 85.777, \"end\": 86.077, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 86.077, \"end\": 86.917, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 86.917, \"end\": 87.197, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.197, \"end\": 88.117, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"掩\", \"start\": 88.117, \"end\": 88.258, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"埋\", \"start\": 88.258, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 122.093, \"end\": 122.113, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 122.113, \"end\": 122.213, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 122.213, \"end\": 122.233, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 122.233, \"end\": 122.253, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 122.253, \"end\": 122.413, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 122.413, \"end\": 122.533, \"score\": 0.548}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 122.533, \"end\": 122.973, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 122.973, \"end\": 122.993, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"塑\", \"start\": 122.993, \"end\": 123.053, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"膠\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 123.053, \"end\": 123.113, \"score\": 0.265}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 123.113, \"end\": 123.133, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 123.133, \"end\": 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\"周\", \"start\": 587.601, \"end\": 587.822, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 587.822, \"end\": 588.042, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 588.042, \"end\": 588.062, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 588.882, \"end\": 588.902, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,170\n有請徐部長,謝謝。好,陳文好。部長早。部長上次我們在質詢的時候,我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題。當時你也同意就是說我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾產生的\n\n2\n00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:25,940\n您剛才也提到源頭減量是聖誕政策\n\n3\n00:00:54,153 --> 00:01:05,983\n但是現在的差距這麼大而且這個源頭減量編的經費大概到1億左右這個相差在20倍請部長是不是可以做一個說明我可不可以請我們紅藍組元首長\n\n4\n00:01:09,911 --> 00:01:32,039\n謝謝委員跟委員報告那今年會比較經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的這個期限所以在這一段期間我們除了整改外對於現有的掩埋廠也做一個加強的措施所以投入比較多的經費\n\n5\n00:01:32,619 --> 00:01:33,259\n好我們來檢討一下謝謝\n\n6\n00:02:01,232 --> 00:02:05,635\n請您看一下左邊這張圖這個是去年5月在科學月刊的一張科學性的報告假設塑膠處理剛剛也提到這個限塑是非常重要的一個手段塑膠處理方式不改的話它整個塑膠的年產量垃圾的年產量是一直往上升的但這裡也有討論到有幾個方法\n\n7\n00:02:21,787 --> 00:02:28,195\n那其中這個控制跟減量就是源頭可以降低有望降低30%那替代材質17%回收再用可能降低20%等等那這個從源頭減量可以有最大的程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生\n\n8\n00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:59,705\n如果我們看這個源頭減量跟回收再用因為這個是現在在努力的方向大概可以減少50%那是不是說我們是從這個消費者的這個環保意識加上企業的這個社會責任的這個認識我們應該是要鼓勵他們但是部長剛剛您雖然這樣報告一直在減量我要給你一個數字我相信您也很熟悉一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%\n\n9\n00:03:02,239 --> 00:03:29,395\n是塑膠產業最大宗而且相當於每年有1.61億噸1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了這是第一個這是第一個數字那根據聯合國他有一個計畫叫turnoffthetap簡單的話就是關掉水龍頭源頭的部分他的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案部長那您對這個\n\n10\n00:03:31,069 --> 00:03:34,791\n但是台灣真的是蠻特殊的啦因為我們很可能也包括這個化工產業相當的發達所以我們在這一塊源頭的減量事實上是非常的重要\n\n11\n00:03:51,100 --> 00:04:01,568\n要繼續努力因為理想還是差太遠了而且是越來越高你再怎麼努力結果是越來越高部長那不好意思請看一下右邊右邊這是你們設了一個支援循環網路這個目的是解決廢棄物的清理的一個計畫它公布的時間在2022年11月但是據我了解這是最近的報導迄今只有一案\n\n12\n00:04:16,099 --> 00:04:45,038\n只有這個日月光一案通過這個計劃申請那這個成效很差啊那到底發生什麼事情啊好我請問我們賴署長的公務員報告那我們這個是推動我們產業就事業他可以來結合他上校有提報一個就是可以來結合網路的計劃那另外我們在因為就是產業他們比較不熟悉這個法規所以我們有持續的來這個宣導那源頭減壓部分另外有一大塊是消費面我們是用法規來強制\n\n13\n00:04:46,339 --> 00:05:13,377\n你說不熟悉法規我認為其中有一點因為這個業者必須主動去找再利用的業者這個部分其實政府公局是可以做一個協助讓參與度再高一點因為這參與度不像話到現在只有一家通過而且這個是對於限塑塑膠的部分是效果是最好的一個部分好那我們再來談減塑真的剛剛部長也有提到了我們在這個已經2022年第一次提出剛剛部長有\n\n14\n00:05:14,258 --> 00:05:21,802\n有在報告就塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的這個當時就開始做一些限制但是22年了我們來看那個成果好嗎右邊這個圖雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少但是右邊這個圖請大家看2013年到現在就10年了以來塑膠袋的成長率是這個公頓14.4%塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7部長嚇死人了68.7那這個\n\n15\n00:05:43,695 --> 00:05:44,275\n市長,我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量\n\n16\n00:06:08,916 --> 00:06:09,136\n接下來我們來看這個探的問題\n\n17\n00:06:30,871 --> 00:06:56,917\n因為根據這個氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後淨零排在這非常重要那市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程永續管理師、碳權交易管理師根據這個商桌的報導像這個鋼鐵石化業、製造營造業等等他們這個高耗能的產業他為了符合這個政府跟這個客戶的這個減碳規範都急著找人才可是那有人把他視為商機那就是教大家怎麼買碳權\n\n18\n00:06:58,857 --> 00:06:58,977\n是,我了解\n\n19\n00:07:18,580 --> 00:07:33,693\n給陳委員報告我們也被這個困擾很久那我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業民眾要注意但是因為我們基本上就是類似像補習班一樣環境部大概沒有全線\n\n20\n00:07:35,254 --> 00:07:36,454\n但是目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先我知道報名非常踴躍\n\n21\n00:08:04,704 --> 00:08:04,804\n拜訪委員\n\n22\n00:08:17,618 --> 00:08:37,844\n因為部長根據內政部統計今天內政部有出席房貸的負擔率等一下你就知道我為什麼講房貸房貸負擔率在三成才算是合理的範圍但全台大部分都超過破三成大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市大概在這個水準但是房價持續升高這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的一個議題那部長我為什麼這樣講我們來看這個高雄\n\n23\n00:08:41,645 --> 00:08:49,693\n高雄跟雲林這兩個縣是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地這個是所謂的高碳排地區所以將來他們會對於這個\n\n24\n00:08:52,540 --> 00:08:52,700\n陳昭姿\n\n25\n00:09:12,641 --> 00:09:28,814\n對這些相對低收入戶的這個都市是非常嚴重的所以隨著這個這個碳費的機制你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套不要讓這些受災戶成為什麼成為綠色通膨受災本來我們是美意是\n\n26\n00:09:29,454 --> 00:09:48,062\n那這個你有做規劃嗎?謝謝這個陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊那的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業煉鋼但他們平均收入就低於全台灣所以他們排碳量反而是比較高所以他們會影響包括企業包括周遭的\n\n27\n00:09:48,882 --> 00:09:48,902\n謝謝陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1170\t有請徐部長,謝謝。好,陳文好。部長早。部長上次我們在質詢的時候,我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題。當時你也同意就是說我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾產生的\n25680\t25940\t您剛才也提到源頭減量是聖誕政策\n54153\t65983\t但是現在的差距這麼大而且這個源頭減量編的經費大概到1億左右這個相差在20倍請部長是不是可以做一個說明我可不可以請我們紅藍組元首長\n69911\t92039\t謝謝委員跟委員報告那今年會比較經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的這個期限所以在這一段期間我們除了整改外對於現有的掩埋廠也做一個加強的措施所以投入比較多的經費\n92619\t93259\t好 我們來檢討一下 謝謝\n121232\t125635\t請您看一下左邊這張圖這個是去年5月在科學月刊的一張科學性的報告假設塑膠處理剛剛也提到這個限塑是非常重要的一個手段塑膠處理方式不改的話它整個塑膠的年產量垃圾的年產量是一直往上升的但這裡也有討論到有幾個方法\n141787\t148195\t那其中這個控制跟減量就是源頭可以降低有望降低30%那替代材質17%回收再用可能降低20%等等那這個從源頭減量可以有最大的程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生\n157467\t179705\t如果我們看這個源頭減量跟回收再用因為這個是現在在努力的方向大概可以減少50%那是不是說我們是從這個消費者的這個環保意識加上企業的這個社會責任的這個認識我們應該是要鼓勵他們但是部長剛剛您雖然這樣報告一直在減量我要給你一個數字我相信您也很熟悉一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%\n182239\t209395\t是塑膠產業最大宗而且相當於每年有1.61億噸1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了這是第一個這是第一個數字那根據聯合國他有一個計畫叫turn off the tap簡單的話就是關掉水龍頭源頭的部分他的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案部長那您對這個\n211069\t214791\t但是台灣真的是蠻特殊的啦因為我們很可能也包括這個化工產業相當的發達所以我們在這一塊源頭的減量事實上是非常的重要\n231100\t241568\t要繼續努力因為理想還是差太遠了而且是越來越高你再怎麼努力結果是越來越高部長那不好意思請看一下右邊右邊這是你們設了一個支援循環網路這個目的是解決廢棄物的清理的一個計畫它公布的時間在2022年11月但是據我了解這是最近的報導迄今只有一案\n256099\t285038\t只有這個日月光一案通過這個計劃申請那這個成效很差啊那到底發生什麼事情啊好我請問我們賴署長的公務員報告那我們這個是推動我們產業就事業他可以來結合他上校有提報一個就是可以來結合網路的計劃那另外我們在因為就是產業他們比較不熟悉這個法規所以我們有持續的來這個宣導那源頭減壓部分另外有一大塊是消費面我們是用法規來強制\n286339\t313377\t你說不熟悉法規我認為其中有一點因為這個業者必須主動去找再利用的業者這個部分其實政府公局是可以做一個協助讓參與度再高一點因為這參與度不像話到現在只有一家通過而且這個是對於限塑塑膠的部分是效果是最好的一個部分好那我們再來談減塑真的剛剛部長也有提到了我們在這個已經2022年第一次提出剛剛部長有\n314258\t321802\t有在報告就塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的這個當時就開始做一些限制但是22年了我們來看那個成果好嗎右邊這個圖雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少但是右邊這個圖請大家看2013年到現在就10年了以來塑膠袋的成長率是這個公頓14.4%塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7部長嚇死人了68.7那這個\n343695\t344275\t市長,我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量\n368916\t369136\t接下來我們來看這個探的問題\n390871\t416917\t因為根據這個氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後淨零排在這非常重要那市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程永續管理師、碳權交易管理師根據這個商桌的報導像這個鋼鐵石化業、製造營造業等等他們這個高耗能的產業他為了符合這個政府跟這個客戶的這個減碳規範都急著找人才可是那有人把他視為商機那就是教大家怎麼買碳權\n418857\t418977\t是,我了解\n438580\t453693\t給陳委員報告我們也被這個困擾很久那我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業民眾要注意但是因為我們基本上就是類似像補習班一樣環境部大概沒有全線\n455254\t456454\t但是目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先我知道報名非常踴躍\n484704\t484804\t拜訪委員\n497618\t517844\t因為部長根據內政部統計今天內政部有出席房貸的負擔率等一下你就知道我為什麼講房貸房貸負擔率在三成才算是合理的範圍但全台大部分都超過破三成大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市大概在這個水準但是房價持續升高這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的一個議題那部長我為什麼這樣講我們來看這個高雄\n521645\t529693\t高雄跟雲林這兩個縣是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地這個是所謂的高碳排地區所以將來他們會對於這個\n532540\t532700\t陳昭姿\n552641\t568814\t對這些相對低收入戶的這個都市是非常嚴重的所以隨著這個這個碳費的機制你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套不要讓這些受災戶成為什麼成為綠色通膨受災本來我們是美意是\n569454\t588062\t那這個你有做規劃嗎?謝謝這個陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊那的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業煉鋼但他們平均收入就低於全台灣所以他們排碳量反而是比較高所以他們會影響包括企業包括周遭的\n588882\t588902\t謝謝陳委員\n","txt":"有請徐部長,謝謝。好,陳文好。部長早。部長上次我們在質詢的時候,我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題。當時你也同意就是說我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾產生的\n您剛才也提到源頭減量是聖誕政策\n但是現在的差距這麼大而且這個源頭減量編的經費大概到1億左右這個相差在20倍請部長是不是可以做一個說明我可不可以請我們紅藍組元首長\n謝謝委員跟委員報告那今年會比較經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的這個期限所以在這一段期間我們除了整改外對於現有的掩埋廠也做一個加強的措施所以投入比較多的經費\n好 我們來檢討一下 謝謝\n請您看一下左邊這張圖這個是去年5月在科學月刊的一張科學性的報告假設塑膠處理剛剛也提到這個限塑是非常重要的一個手段塑膠處理方式不改的話它整個塑膠的年產量垃圾的年產量是一直往上升的但這裡也有討論到有幾個方法\n那其中這個控制跟減量就是源頭可以降低有望降低30%那替代材質17%回收再用可能降低20%等等那這個從源頭減量可以有最大的程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生\n如果我們看這個源頭減量跟回收再用因為這個是現在在努力的方向大概可以減少50%那是不是說我們是從這個消費者的這個環保意識加上企業的這個社會責任的這個認識我們應該是要鼓勵他們但是部長剛剛您雖然這樣報告一直在減量我要給你一個數字我相信您也很熟悉一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%\n是塑膠產業最大宗而且相當於每年有1.61億噸1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了這是第一個這是第一個數字那根據聯合國他有一個計畫叫turn off the tap簡單的話就是關掉水龍頭源頭的部分他的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案部長那您對這個\n但是台灣真的是蠻特殊的啦因為我們很可能也包括這個化工產業相當的發達所以我們在這一塊源頭的減量事實上是非常的重要\n要繼續努力因為理想還是差太遠了而且是越來越高你再怎麼努力結果是越來越高部長那不好意思請看一下右邊右邊這是你們設了一個支援循環網路這個目的是解決廢棄物的清理的一個計畫它公布的時間在2022年11月但是據我了解這是最近的報導迄今只有一案\n只有這個日月光一案通過這個計劃申請那這個成效很差啊那到底發生什麼事情啊好我請問我們賴署長的公務員報告那我們這個是推動我們產業就事業他可以來結合他上校有提報一個就是可以來結合網路的計劃那另外我們在因為就是產業他們比較不熟悉這個法規所以我們有持續的來這個宣導那源頭減壓部分另外有一大塊是消費面我們是用法規來強制\n你說不熟悉法規我認為其中有一點因為這個業者必須主動去找再利用的業者這個部分其實政府公局是可以做一個協助讓參與度再高一點因為這參與度不像話到現在只有一家通過而且這個是對於限塑塑膠的部分是效果是最好的一個部分好那我們再來談減塑真的剛剛部長也有提到了我們在這個已經2022年第一次提出剛剛部長有\n有在報告就塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的這個當時就開始做一些限制但是22年了我們來看那個成果好嗎右邊這個圖雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少但是右邊這個圖請大家看2013年到現在就10年了以來塑膠袋的成長率是這個公頓14.4%塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7部長嚇死人了68.7那這個\n市長,我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量\n接下來我們來看這個探的問題\n因為根據這個氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後淨零排在這非常重要那市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程永續管理師、碳權交易管理師根據這個商桌的報導像這個鋼鐵石化業、製造營造業等等他們這個高耗能的產業他為了符合這個政府跟這個客戶的這個減碳規範都急著找人才可是那有人把他視為商機那就是教大家怎麼買碳權\n是,我了解\n給陳委員報告我們也被這個困擾很久那我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業民眾要注意但是因為我們基本上就是類似像補習班一樣環境部大概沒有全線\n但是目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先我知道報名非常踴躍\n拜訪委員\n因為部長根據內政部統計今天內政部有出席房貸的負擔率等一下你就知道我為什麼講房貸房貸負擔率在三成才算是合理的範圍但全台大部分都超過破三成大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市大概在這個水準但是房價持續升高這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的一個議題那部長我為什麼這樣講我們來看這個高雄\n高雄跟雲林這兩個縣是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地這個是所謂的高碳排地區所以將來他們會對於這個\n陳昭姿\n對這些相對低收入戶的這個都市是非常嚴重的所以隨著這個這個碳費的機制你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套不要讓這些受災戶成為什麼成為綠色通膨受災本來我們是美意是\n那這個你有做規劃嗎?謝謝這個陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊那的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業煉鋼但他們平均收入就低於全台灣所以他們排碳量反而是比較高所以他們會影響包括企業包括周遭的\n謝謝陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.170\n有請徐部長,謝謝。好,陳文好。部長早。部長上次我們在質詢的時候,我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題。當時你也同意就是說我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾產生的\n\n00:25.680 --> 00:25.940\n您剛才也提到源頭減量是聖誕政策\n\n00:54.153 --> 01:05.983\n但是現在的差距這麼大而且這個源頭減量編的經費大概到1億左右這個相差在20倍請部長是不是可以做一個說明我可不可以請我們紅藍組元首長\n\n01:09.911 --> 01:32.039\n謝謝委員跟委員報告那今年會比較經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的這個期限所以在這一段期間我們除了整改外對於現有的掩埋廠也做一個加強的措施所以投入比較多的經費\n\n01:32.619 --> 01:33.259\n好我們來檢討一下謝謝\n\n02:01.232 --> 02:05.635\n請您看一下左邊這張圖這個是去年5月在科學月刊的一張科學性的報告假設塑膠處理剛剛也提到這個限塑是非常重要的一個手段塑膠處理方式不改的話它整個塑膠的年產量垃圾的年產量是一直往上升的但這裡也有討論到有幾個方法\n\n02:21.787 --> 02:28.195\n那其中這個控制跟減量就是源頭可以降低有望降低30%那替代材質17%回收再用可能降低20%等等那這個從源頭減量可以有最大的程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生\n\n02:37.467 --> 02:59.705\n如果我們看這個源頭減量跟回收再用因為這個是現在在努力的方向大概可以減少50%那是不是說我們是從這個消費者的這個環保意識加上企業的這個社會責任的這個認識我們應該是要鼓勵他們但是部長剛剛您雖然這樣報告一直在減量我要給你一個數字我相信您也很熟悉一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%\n\n03:02.239 --> 03:29.395\n是塑膠產業最大宗而且相當於每年有1.61億噸1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了這是第一個這是第一個數字那根據聯合國他有一個計畫叫turnoffthetap簡單的話就是關掉水龍頭源頭的部分他的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案部長那您對這個\n\n03:31.069 --> 03:34.791\n但是台灣真的是蠻特殊的啦因為我們很可能也包括這個化工產業相當的發達所以我們在這一塊源頭的減量事實上是非常的重要\n\n03:51.100 --> 04:01.568\n要繼續努力因為理想還是差太遠了而且是越來越高你再怎麼努力結果是越來越高部長那不好意思請看一下右邊右邊這是你們設了一個支援循環網路這個目的是解決廢棄物的清理的一個計畫它公布的時間在2022年11月但是據我了解這是最近的報導迄今只有一案\n\n04:16.099 --> 04:45.038\n只有這個日月光一案通過這個計劃申請那這個成效很差啊那到底發生什麼事情啊好我請問我們賴署長的公務員報告那我們這個是推動我們產業就事業他可以來結合他上校有提報一個就是可以來結合網路的計劃那另外我們在因為就是產業他們比較不熟悉這個法規所以我們有持續的來這個宣導那源頭減壓部分另外有一大塊是消費面我們是用法規來強制\n\n04:46.339 --> 05:13.377\n你說不熟悉法規我認為其中有一點因為這個業者必須主動去找再利用的業者這個部分其實政府公局是可以做一個協助讓參與度再高一點因為這參與度不像話到現在只有一家通過而且這個是對於限塑塑膠的部分是效果是最好的一個部分好那我們再來談減塑真的剛剛部長也有提到了我們在這個已經2022年第一次提出剛剛部長有\n\n05:14.258 --> 05:21.802\n有在報告就塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的這個當時就開始做一些限制但是22年了我們來看那個成果好嗎右邊這個圖雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少但是右邊這個圖請大家看2013年到現在就10年了以來塑膠袋的成長率是這個公頓14.4%塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7部長嚇死人了68.7那這個\n\n05:43.695 --> 05:44.275\n市長,我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量\n\n06:08.916 --> 06:09.136\n接下來我們來看這個探的問題\n\n06:30.871 --> 06:56.917\n因為根據這個氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後淨零排在這非常重要那市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程永續管理師、碳權交易管理師根據這個商桌的報導像這個鋼鐵石化業、製造營造業等等他們這個高耗能的產業他為了符合這個政府跟這個客戶的這個減碳規範都急著找人才可是那有人把他視為商機那就是教大家怎麼買碳權\n\n06:58.857 --> 06:58.977\n是,我了解\n\n07:18.580 --> 07:33.693\n給陳委員報告我們也被這個困擾很久那我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業民眾要注意但是因為我們基本上就是類似像補習班一樣環境部大概沒有全線\n\n07:35.254 --> 07:36.454\n但是目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先我知道報名非常踴躍\n\n08:04.704 --> 08:04.804\n拜訪委員\n\n08:17.618 --> 08:37.844\n因為部長根據內政部統計今天內政部有出席房貸的負擔率等一下你就知道我為什麼講房貸房貸負擔率在三成才算是合理的範圍但全台大部分都超過破三成大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市大概在這個水準但是房價持續升高這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的一個議題那部長我為什麼這樣講我們來看這個高雄\n\n08:41.645 --> 08:49.693\n高雄跟雲林這兩個縣是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地這個是所謂的高碳排地區所以將來他們會對於這個\n\n08:52.540 --> 08:52.700\n陳昭姿\n\n09:12.641 --> 09:28.814\n對這些相對低收入戶的這個都市是非常嚴重的所以隨著這個這個碳費的機制你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套不要讓這些受災戶成為什麼成為綠色通膨受災本來我們是美意是\n\n09:29.454 --> 09:48.062\n那這個你有做規劃嗎?謝謝這個陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊那的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業煉鋼但他們平均收入就低於全台灣所以他們排碳量反而是比較高所以他們會影響包括企業包括周遭的\n\n09:48.882 --> 09:48.902\n謝謝陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.17,"text":"有請徐部長,謝謝。好,陳文好。部長早。部長上次我們在質詢的時候,我們有提到垃圾處理系統的問題。當時你也同意就是說我們目前垃圾處理的量能也不及應付垃圾產生的"},{"start":25.68,"end":25.94,"text":"您剛才也提到源頭減量是聖誕政策"},{"start":54.153,"end":65.983,"text":"但是現在的差距這麼大而且這個源頭減量編的經費大概到1億左右這個相差在20倍請部長是不是可以做一個說明我可不可以請我們紅藍組元首長"},{"start":69.911,"end":92.039,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告那今年會比較經費比較高的原因是我們的廢棄物處理設施很多尤其是焚化廠已經到達應該整改的這個期限所以在這一段期間我們除了整改外對於現有的掩埋廠也做一個加強的措施所以投入比較多的經費"},{"start":92.619,"end":93.259,"text":"好 我們來檢討一下 謝謝"},{"start":121.232,"end":125.635,"text":"請您看一下左邊這張圖這個是去年5月在科學月刊的一張科學性的報告假設塑膠處理剛剛也提到這個限塑是非常重要的一個手段塑膠處理方式不改的話它整個塑膠的年產量垃圾的年產量是一直往上升的但這裡也有討論到有幾個方法"},{"start":141.787,"end":148.195,"text":"那其中這個控制跟減量就是源頭可以降低有望降低30%那替代材質17%回收再用可能降低20%等等那這個從源頭減量可以有最大的程度的減少塑膠垃圾產生"},{"start":157.467,"end":179.705,"text":"如果我們看這個源頭減量跟回收再用因為這個是現在在努力的方向大概可以減少50%那是不是說我們是從這個消費者的這個環保意識加上企業的這個社會責任的這個認識我們應該是要鼓勵他們但是部長剛剛您雖然這樣報告一直在減量我要給你一個數字我相信您也很熟悉一次性的塑膠包裝占所有塑膠產量的40%"},{"start":182.239,"end":209.395,"text":"是塑膠產業最大宗而且相當於每年有1.61億噸1.61億噸的塑膠包裝在市面上用過一次就丟棄了這是第一個這是第一個數字那根據聯合國他有一個計畫叫turn off the tap簡單的話就是關掉水龍頭源頭的部分他的報告也說重複使用是從源頭減量最可規模化的一種減量方案部長那您對這個"},{"start":211.069,"end":214.791,"text":"但是台灣真的是蠻特殊的啦因為我們很可能也包括這個化工產業相當的發達所以我們在這一塊源頭的減量事實上是非常的重要"},{"start":231.1,"end":241.568,"text":"要繼續努力因為理想還是差太遠了而且是越來越高你再怎麼努力結果是越來越高部長那不好意思請看一下右邊右邊這是你們設了一個支援循環網路這個目的是解決廢棄物的清理的一個計畫它公布的時間在2022年11月但是據我了解這是最近的報導迄今只有一案"},{"start":256.099,"end":285.038,"text":"只有這個日月光一案通過這個計劃申請那這個成效很差啊那到底發生什麼事情啊好我請問我們賴署長的公務員報告那我們這個是推動我們產業就事業他可以來結合他上校有提報一個就是可以來結合網路的計劃那另外我們在因為就是產業他們比較不熟悉這個法規所以我們有持續的來這個宣導那源頭減壓部分另外有一大塊是消費面我們是用法規來強制"},{"start":286.339,"end":313.377,"text":"你說不熟悉法規我認為其中有一點因為這個業者必須主動去找再利用的業者這個部分其實政府公局是可以做一個協助讓參與度再高一點因為這參與度不像話到現在只有一家通過而且這個是對於限塑塑膠的部分是效果是最好的一個部分好那我們再來談減塑真的剛剛部長也有提到了我們在這個已經2022年第一次提出剛剛部長有"},{"start":314.258,"end":321.802,"text":"有在報告就塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的這個當時就開始做一些限制但是22年了我們來看那個成果好嗎右邊這個圖雖然部長一再說我們有減了多少但是右邊這個圖請大家看2013年到現在就10年了以來塑膠袋的成長率是這個公頓14.4%塑膠餐具的成長率是68.7部長嚇死人了68.7那這個"},{"start":343.695,"end":344.275,"text":"市長,我請同仁把我們整個塑膠的使用量"},{"start":368.916,"end":369.136,"text":"接下來我們來看這個探的問題"},{"start":390.871,"end":416.917,"text":"因為根據這個氣候變遷因應法三讀通過以後淨零排在這非常重要那市面上出現很多奇奇怪怪的課程永續管理師、碳權交易管理師根據這個商桌的報導像這個鋼鐵石化業、製造營造業等等他們這個高耗能的產業他為了符合這個政府跟這個客戶的這個減碳規範都急著找人才可是那有人把他視為商機那就是教大家怎麼買碳權"},{"start":418.857,"end":418.977,"text":"是,我了解"},{"start":438.58,"end":453.693,"text":"給陳委員報告我們也被這個困擾很久那我們也持續發布新聞稿提醒企業民眾要注意但是因為我們基本上就是類似像補習班一樣環境部大概沒有全線"},{"start":455.254,"end":456.454,"text":"但是目前你們是以製造業跟發電業為優先我知道報名非常踴躍"},{"start":484.704,"end":484.804,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":497.618,"end":517.844,"text":"因為部長根據內政部統計今天內政部有出席房貸的負擔率等一下你就知道我為什麼講房貸房貸負擔率在三成才算是合理的範圍但全台大部分都超過破三成大概只有剩下嘉義、屏東跟基隆市大概在這個水準但是房價持續升高這對很多居民來說是一個非常重要的一個議題那部長我為什麼這樣講我們來看這個高雄"},{"start":521.645,"end":529.693,"text":"高雄跟雲林這兩個縣是重工業發展跟發電廠的所在地這個是所謂的高碳排地區所以將來他們會對於這個"},{"start":532.54,"end":532.7,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":552.641,"end":568.814,"text":"對這些相對低收入戶的這個都市是非常嚴重的所以隨著這個這個碳費的機制你有沒有提出一些因應的措施或配套不要讓這些受災戶成為什麼成為綠色通膨受災本來我們是美意是"},{"start":569.454,"end":588.062,"text":"那這個你有做規劃嗎?謝謝這個陳委員特別提到公正轉型這一塊那的確不管高雄跟雲林都是所謂傳統產業煉鋼但他們平均收入就低於全台灣所以他們排碳量反而是比較高所以他們會影響包括企業包括周遭的"},{"start":588.882,"end":588.902,"text":"謝謝陳委員"}]}}}}