{"id":151210,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151210","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016274d5da14a513510fcb57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c9457c9e36ddc0b84515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:18:48 - 09:29:36","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":648,"end_time":"2024-04-17T09:29:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T09:18:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":207,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時18分）有請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。"],["薛部長富盛：早。"],["林委員月琴：我們就來看今天你的重點，當然也要問問部長。首先，我們來看你限塑政策的成效，方法真的是很多元，我們比較有聽到的、你覺得很亮眼的像是循環杯的使用，現在去便利超商買咖啡時一定會有這個東西，還有之前職棒球賽現場的飲料杯也改成循環杯……"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["林委員月琴：這個當然予以肯定，目前到超商自備飲料杯子的話……"],["薛部長富盛：自備飲料杯可以減5塊錢。"],["林委員月琴：當然就是可以有減5元的政策，大型的速食餐飲店也加入限制使用吸管跟提供循環包的政策，這個大家都是耳熟能詳的。你剛剛的報告也提到，針對旅宿業者限制使用一次性用品的話，每年大概減少4.6億個小瓶子跟2,100公噸的垃圾；網購東西過度包裝這邊，今年大概可以減少2.3萬公噸，可是部長……剛才看到我的前一頁就知道，好像方法很多，做了很多事情，我們都覺得很有創意，想了很多方法減塑，可是很遺憾地，從經濟部的數據來看，塑膠袋、塑膠餐具的使用量、內銷的銷售額一直在創新高，而且雖然去年有一點下降，可是塑膠袋仍然降不下來。從這個資訊有幾個可以反映，91年推動限塑，到112年推動了二十幾項，雖然還沒有在報告當中顯示，但是數字反映國人使用塑膠品的數量跟內銷金額，事實上仍然降不下來，政策是不是根本沒有打到重點？否則就是我們的執行成效不佳。我只看到環境部的報告說單點的政策減少多少塑膠製品，但沒有碰觸到核心，塑膠越減越多。","第二個，你的政策五花八門，每項政策感覺上好像是環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁，今天想到什麼東西，舉個手發言然後就做，到底真正要解決什麼問題？部長可不可以回答我，你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難？你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何？"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝林委員的提點，事實上這也把重點講出來了，包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用，傳統市場、攤販跟夜市占了將近6、70%，過去環保署跟環境部推動限塑這一塊都是針對有開統一發票，特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販等14個場域推行，反而這14個場域占我們整體塑膠袋的使用量還不到20%。"],["林委員月琴：所以很高，那你……"],["薛部長富盛：等於在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點……"],["林委員月琴：所以你也承認沒有打到痛點？"],["薛部長富盛：但是那個痛點會影響所有民眾的日常生活，所以必須要有一段時間，透過宣導讓所有的民眾都體認塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害。假如我們能夠配合今年的聯合國塑膠公約……他們會在年底完成法令的立法。全世界都要推，我們發現……"],["林委員月琴：部長如果覺得這麼重要，為什麼升格為環保署……2018年到2030年的限塑政策，將全面禁限用視為目標，可是我不太理解的是，2023年升格為環境部的時候，突然對外說明這不是唯一解方，而且目前我翻找了環境部的網站，也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向。部長剛剛在前面都說這件事情很重要，可是怎麼你的減塑目標整個政策大轉彎？我問一下部長，臺灣的限塑政策為什麼要這樣大轉彎？時隔5年政策為什麼突然……"],["薛部長富盛：跟林委員報告，政策沒有轉彎，剛剛委員在螢幕上秀出的內容，當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子。"],["林委員月琴：可是你現在已經改變了。"],["薛部長富盛：變環境部之後還是繼續走這個方向，所以政策有延續性。我們的組織規模變大，但是政策只要是對的就要延續，不管今天是誰擔任這個職務或者組織規模有沒有變，因為它是一個對的方向。"],["林委員月琴：好，剛剛也說很多是國人的習慣。"],["薛部長富盛：對。"],["林委員月琴：到底這一陣子你們針對國人的習慣又做了些什麼？目前這14類場所禁用塑膠袋，可是傳統市場、小吃、攤販、早餐店、餐廳就如你剛剛講的，都沒有納入。你要去做，可是這邊又沒有納入，也沒有看到整個觀念上怎麼引導，加上我們的塑膠袋非常便宜，我花1塊錢、2到5塊錢就……誘因不足當然很難改變民眾的習慣。你又知道民眾的習慣很重要，它是最主要的，可是好像沒有什麼具體的作為。"],["薛部長富盛：有。"],["林委員月琴：整個塑膠袋跟塑膠餐具禁用目標目前看起來不明確，時程也不清楚。"],["薛部長富盛：假如委員需要更詳細的資料，我們循環署待會兒會後可以提供給委員。事實上，這都有一系列的作法跟策略。"],["林委員月琴：可不可以借鏡其他國際的經驗？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["林委員月琴：是不是訂定一些國家的目標，讓民眾也知道什麼時間點接下來什麼東西不能用、什麼時間點要做什麼，然後往前推？可是你一直沒有做……"],["薛部長富盛：有。"],["林委員月琴：告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重，可是沒有更多具體的一些作為。針對一次性產品向消費者收取額外的費用，這邊有沒有考慮，或者是進行市場流通管制，確保一次性塑膠杯跟食品容器都重複利用？有沒有不含塑膠的替代品可以取代？你可不可以思考這些……"],["薛部長富盛：這個都有在做，譬如說吸管的取代，不管是用生質物、玻璃或者不鏽鋼管，事實上大家還是覺得不習慣。"],["林委員月琴：是不是多元並進？我覺得限塑要加速，從法規面……"],["薛部長富盛：是，我們瞭解。"],["林委員月琴：還有你的管制面，甚至能不能有鼓勵面？鼓勵店家減少的話，有沒有一些誘因？"],["薛部長富盛：有。"],["林委員月琴：甚至做一些貼補才有辦法解決。"],["薛部長富盛：這個鼓勵措施都有，而且現在有42個傳統市場已經在示範了，希望他們成功之後可以推廣。"],["林委員月琴：不好意思，主席，再給我2分鐘。","有關垃圾的問題，從上面這個圖可以看到，深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量，我們可以看出來，105年起垃圾的總量不斷地攀升；淡橘色的是資源回收量，看起來都是正成長，也突破歷史新高，代表大家都很認真做回收，可是我們的垃圾製造量沒有減少。第二張圖是焚化爐的處理量能，也可以看到112年大幅減少，焚化爐可能是歲修或者是更新。"],["薛部長富盛：這個是……"],["林委員月琴：可是也因為量能下降，垃圾來不及燒，就暫時擱置。以桃園為例，去年地方民意就有提到，桃園龍潭店子湖的垃圾掩埋場，垃圾的高度高達7、8公尺，不單純是惡臭的問題，而且是安全的問題。坦白講，垃圾問題要回歸地方量能的調度，中央的環境部只能政策指導，可是政策部分還是有一些空間。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["林委員月琴：部長，垃圾量連年增加，你找到問題點了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：跟林委員報告，這個有一點誤解，第三根突然增加是因為定義的問題，以前事業廢棄物裡面，員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物，後來把它弄到一般廢棄物。另外，右手邊第二根是因為2019年COVID-19之後，反而造成很多外賣、外帶……"],["林委員月琴：部長，垃圾減量要找方法……"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["林委員月琴：制度面要隨袋徵收、隨水費徵收，本來我們都知道隨袋徵收比較好，可是你在做這件事情的時候，是不是也要做社會溝通？我們都知道這個是比較有利的，而且是改變習慣最好的方法。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["林委員月琴：會後是不是提供隨袋徵收跟隨水費徵收的一些比較，並說明你們未來怎麼做？以上，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：可以，謝謝林委員。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：好，謝謝。","接下來請陳菁徽委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","陳瑩","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 610.865, \"end\": 611.065, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 611.065, \"end\": 611.165, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 611.165, \"end\": 611.185, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 633.875, \"end\": 634.115, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"輝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 634.115, \"end\": 634.135, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,260 --> 00:00:07,661\n林月琴議員\n\n2\n00:00:17,989 --> 00:00:39,830\n首先我們來看你的那個限塑的政策的成效真的是方法很多元但從我們比較有聽到的就是說比較你覺得很亮眼像循環杯的使用現在去便利超商\n\n3\n00:00:40,890 --> 00:00:41,131\n林月琴議員\n\n4\n00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:56,881\n每年大概減少的4.6億個小瓶子\n\n5\n00:01:24,358 --> 00:01:24,918\n李卓人議員\n\n6\n00:01:40,063 --> 00:02:04,501\n我相信剛才看到我的前一頁就知道說好像方法很多做了很多事情我們都覺得很有創意想了很多方法去減塑可是很遺憾的再從經濟部的數據來看的話我們從塑膠袋我們的塑膠餐具的使用量內銷的銷售一直在創新高而且雖然去年有一點下降可是塑膠袋仍然是降不下來\n\n7\n00:02:05,182 --> 00:02:11,236\n所以從這個有幾個可以反映得到的是說你91年去推動限塑到112年推動了20幾項\n\n8\n00:02:14,258 --> 00:02:14,778\n林月琴議員\n\n9\n00:02:39,718 --> 00:02:39,798\n李卓人議員\n\n10\n00:02:45,882 --> 00:03:11,363\n第二個你的政策五花八門每項政策都感覺上好像是你環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁今天想到什麼東西舉個手發言然後就去做了到底他真正的要去解決什麼問題所以部長可不可以回答我你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何\n\n11\n00:03:13,683 --> 00:03:26,852\n謝謝林委員的提點事實上也是把重點講出來的我們包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用事實上傳統市場癱瘓跟夜市是佔了將近60-70%\n\n12\n00:03:32,009 --> 00:03:48,223\n在過去環保署跟環境部在推動限塑的這一塊事實上都是以有開統一花票特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販有14個場域來推行反而這14個場域佔我們整體塑膠袋的使用量\n\n13\n00:03:54,209 --> 00:03:58,452\n在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點但是那個痛點會影響我們所有民眾的日常生活\n\n14\n00:04:09,361 --> 00:04:33,621\n所以他必須要有一段時間包括透過宣導包括我們所有的民眾都要體認到塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害事實上假如我們能夠配合包括今年聯合國塑膠公約他們會在年底會完成法令的立法\n\n15\n00:04:34,381 --> 00:04:45,133\n那全世界都要來推,我們發言是要喚起。部長如果覺得這麼重要,那我覺得今天為什麼在深格環保署公布\n\n16\n00:04:46,783 --> 00:05:15,634\n您在2018到2036年的限塑政策你都將全面我們的近現用視為目標可是為什麼不太理解的是2023年升格為環境部的時候突然對外說明這不是唯一解方而且目前我翻找了我們的環境部網站也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向部長剛剛前面你都講說這件事情很重要可是怎麼你的\n\n17\n00:05:16,714 --> 00:05:37,056\n檢索目標整個政策大轉彎所以問一下部長說請問臺灣的我們的限塑政策要這樣大轉彎時隔5年為什麼突然政策對林委員報告沒有政策轉彎環保署當初這個剛剛委員所在這個螢幕上這個就是當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子\n\n18\n00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,380\n今天很多時候是國人的習慣\n\n19\n00:06:06,754 --> 00:06:23,392\n到底這陣子你們針對國人習慣又做了些什麼因為目前這14類的場所禁用塑膠袋可是我們的傳統市場小吃攤販早餐店餐廳就如你剛剛講的都沒有納入可是你又要去做可是這邊又沒有去納入要去或者是\n\n20\n00:06:23,852 --> 00:06:24,032\n我已經報告了齁\n\n21\n00:06:48,363 --> 00:07:10,383\n假如委員有需要更詳細的資料我想我們循環署可以在待會會後提供給委員事實上這個都有一系列所以可不可以借盡其他國際的經驗就是是不是訂定一些國家的目標讓我覺得民眾也要知道說什麼時間點接下來我什麼東西不能用什麼時間點要做什麼然後往前去推\n\n22\n00:07:11,064 --> 00:07:39,160\n那可是你一直沒有做都告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重可是沒有更多具體的一些作為所以可不可以有一些針對一次性產品向消費者收取的額外的費用這邊有沒有去做考慮或者是市場流通的管制這些確保一次性塑膠杯跟那個食品容器都重複利用的有沒有可以不含塑膠的替代品的取用都要取代性你可不可以去思考這些\n\n23\n00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,943\n所以是不是多元併進那我覺得限塑要加速啦從法規面以外還有你的管制面\n\n24\n00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:34,564\n主席,再給我兩分鐘熱色的問題,上面這個圖可以深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量但我們可以看出來105年起我們的熱色總量不斷地在攀升\n\n25\n00:08:35,405 --> 00:08:56,216\n但橘色的事實上是支援回收量看起來都是正成長也是突破歷史新高可是也代表大家都很認真的在做回收可是我們的垃圾製造量是沒有減少的所以這張圖事實上是我們的焚化爐的處理量能也可以看到112年大幅的減少\n\n26\n00:08:57,857 --> 00:08:59,518\n林月琴林月琴\n\n27\n00:09:27,390 --> 00:09:29,873\n您問報告這有點誤解因為第三根這邊突然增加那個是因為定義的問題以前\n\n28\n00:09:49,734 --> 00:10:07,804\n事業廢棄物裡面的員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物後來把它弄到一般廢棄物另外一個2019年這個COVID-19右手邊第二根COVID-19之後事實上反而也造成很多\n\n29\n00:10:09,084 --> 00:10:11,185\n會後是不是提供我們的\n\n30\n00:10:33,875 --> 00:10:34,135\n陳金輝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7260\t7661\t林月琴議員\n17989\t39830\t首先我們來看你的那個限塑的政策的成效真的是方法很多元但從我們比較有聽到的就是說比較你覺得很亮眼像循環杯的使用現在去便利超商\n40890\t41131\t林月琴議員\n55960\t56881\t每年大概減少的4.6億個小瓶子\n84358\t84918\t李卓人議員\n100063\t124501\t我相信剛才看到我的前一頁就知道說好像方法很多做了很多事情我們都覺得很有創意想了很多方法去減塑可是很遺憾的再從經濟部的數據來看的話我們從塑膠袋我們的塑膠餐具的使用量內銷的銷售一直在創新高而且雖然去年有一點下降可是塑膠袋仍然是降不下來\n125182\t131236\t所以從這個有幾個可以反映得到的是說你91年去推動限塑到112年推動了20幾項\n134258\t134778\t林月琴議員\n159718\t159798\t李卓人議員\n165882\t191363\t第二個你的政策五花八門每項政策都感覺上好像是你環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁今天想到什麼東西舉個手發言然後就去做了到底他真正的要去解決什麼問題所以部長可不可以回答我你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何\n193683\t206852\t謝謝林委員的提點事實上也是把重點講出來的我們包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用事實上傳統市場癱瘓跟夜市是佔了將近60-70%\n212009\t228223\t在過去環保署跟環境部在推動限塑的這一塊事實上都是以有開統一花票特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販有14個場域來推行反而這14個場域佔我們整體塑膠袋的使用量\n234209\t238452\t在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點但是那個痛點會影響我們所有民眾的日常生活\n249361\t273621\t所以他必須要有一段時間包括透過宣導包括我們所有的民眾都要體認到塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害事實上假如我們能夠配合包括今年聯合國塑膠公約他們會在年底會完成法令的立法\n274381\t285133\t那全世界都要來推,我們發言是要喚起。部長如果覺得這麼重要,那我覺得今天為什麼在深格環保署公布\n286783\t315634\t您在2018到2036年的限塑政策你都將全面我們的近現用視為目標可是為什麼不太理解的是2023年升格為環境部的時候突然對外說明這不是唯一解方而且目前我翻找了我們的環境部網站也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向部長剛剛前面你都講說這件事情很重要可是怎麼你的\n316714\t337056\t檢索目標整個政策大轉彎所以問一下部長說請問臺灣的我們的限塑政策要這樣大轉彎時隔5年為什麼突然政策對林委員報告沒有政策轉彎環保署當初這個剛剛委員所在這個螢幕上這個就是當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子\n338800\t339380\t今天很多時候是國人的習慣\n366754\t383392\t到底這陣子你們針對國人習慣又做了些什麼因為目前這14類的場所禁用塑膠袋可是我們的傳統市場小吃攤販早餐店餐廳就如你剛剛講的都沒有納入可是你又要去做可是這邊又沒有去納入要去或者是\n383852\t384032\t我已經報告了齁\n408363\t430383\t假如委員有需要更詳細的資料我想我們循環署可以在待會會後提供給委員事實上這個都有一系列所以可不可以借盡其他國際的經驗就是是不是訂定一些國家的目標讓我覺得民眾也要知道說什麼時間點接下來我什麼東西不能用什麼時間點要做什麼然後往前去推\n431064\t459160\t那可是你一直沒有做都告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重可是沒有更多具體的一些作為所以可不可以有一些針對一次性產品向消費者收取的額外的費用這邊有沒有去做考慮或者是市場流通的管制這些確保一次性塑膠杯跟那個食品容器都重複利用的有沒有可以不含塑膠的替代品的取用都要取代性你可不可以去思考這些\n460000\t462943\t所以是不是多元併進那我覺得限塑要加速啦從法規面以外還有你的管制面\n478660\t496766\t﹗\n499589\t514564\t主席,再給我兩分鐘熱色的問題,上面這個圖可以深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量但我們可以看出來105年起我們的熱色總量不斷地在攀升\n515405\t536216\t但橘色的事實上是支援回收量看起來都是正成長也是突破歷史新高可是也代表大家都很認真的在做回收可是我們的垃圾製造量是沒有減少的所以這張圖事實上是我們的焚化爐的處理量能也可以看到112年大幅的減少\n537857\t539518\t林月琴 林月琴\n567390\t569873\t您問報告這有點誤解因為第三根這邊突然增加那個是因為定義的問題以前\n589734\t607804\t事業廢棄物裡面的員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物後來把它弄到一般廢棄物另外一個2019年這個COVID-19右手邊第二根COVID-19之後事實上反而也造成很多\n609084\t611185\t會後是不是提供我們的\n633875\t634135\t陳金輝委員\n","txt":"林月琴議員\n首先我們來看你的那個限塑的政策的成效真的是方法很多元但從我們比較有聽到的就是說比較你覺得很亮眼像循環杯的使用現在去便利超商\n林月琴議員\n每年大概減少的4.6億個小瓶子\n李卓人議員\n我相信剛才看到我的前一頁就知道說好像方法很多做了很多事情我們都覺得很有創意想了很多方法去減塑可是很遺憾的再從經濟部的數據來看的話我們從塑膠袋我們的塑膠餐具的使用量內銷的銷售一直在創新高而且雖然去年有一點下降可是塑膠袋仍然是降不下來\n所以從這個有幾個可以反映得到的是說你91年去推動限塑到112年推動了20幾項\n林月琴議員\n李卓人議員\n第二個你的政策五花八門每項政策都感覺上好像是你環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁今天想到什麼東西舉個手發言然後就去做了到底他真正的要去解決什麼問題所以部長可不可以回答我你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何\n謝謝林委員的提點事實上也是把重點講出來的我們包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用事實上傳統市場癱瘓跟夜市是佔了將近60-70%\n在過去環保署跟環境部在推動限塑的這一塊事實上都是以有開統一花票特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販有14個場域來推行反而這14個場域佔我們整體塑膠袋的使用量\n在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點但是那個痛點會影響我們所有民眾的日常生活\n所以他必須要有一段時間包括透過宣導包括我們所有的民眾都要體認到塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害事實上假如我們能夠配合包括今年聯合國塑膠公約他們會在年底會完成法令的立法\n那全世界都要來推,我們發言是要喚起。部長如果覺得這麼重要,那我覺得今天為什麼在深格環保署公布\n您在2018到2036年的限塑政策你都將全面我們的近現用視為目標可是為什麼不太理解的是2023年升格為環境部的時候突然對外說明這不是唯一解方而且目前我翻找了我們的環境部網站也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向部長剛剛前面你都講說這件事情很重要可是怎麼你的\n檢索目標整個政策大轉彎所以問一下部長說請問臺灣的我們的限塑政策要這樣大轉彎時隔5年為什麼突然政策對林委員報告沒有政策轉彎環保署當初這個剛剛委員所在這個螢幕上這個就是當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子\n今天很多時候是國人的習慣\n到底這陣子你們針對國人習慣又做了些什麼因為目前這14類的場所禁用塑膠袋可是我們的傳統市場小吃攤販早餐店餐廳就如你剛剛講的都沒有納入可是你又要去做可是這邊又沒有去納入要去或者是\n我已經報告了齁\n假如委員有需要更詳細的資料我想我們循環署可以在待會會後提供給委員事實上這個都有一系列所以可不可以借盡其他國際的經驗就是是不是訂定一些國家的目標讓我覺得民眾也要知道說什麼時間點接下來我什麼東西不能用什麼時間點要做什麼然後往前去推\n那可是你一直沒有做都告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重可是沒有更多具體的一些作為所以可不可以有一些針對一次性產品向消費者收取的額外的費用這邊有沒有去做考慮或者是市場流通的管制這些確保一次性塑膠杯跟那個食品容器都重複利用的有沒有可以不含塑膠的替代品的取用都要取代性你可不可以去思考這些\n所以是不是多元併進那我覺得限塑要加速啦從法規面以外還有你的管制面\n﹗\n主席,再給我兩分鐘熱色的問題,上面這個圖可以深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量但我們可以看出來105年起我們的熱色總量不斷地在攀升\n但橘色的事實上是支援回收量看起來都是正成長也是突破歷史新高可是也代表大家都很認真的在做回收可是我們的垃圾製造量是沒有減少的所以這張圖事實上是我們的焚化爐的處理量能也可以看到112年大幅的減少\n林月琴 林月琴\n您問報告這有點誤解因為第三根這邊突然增加那個是因為定義的問題以前\n事業廢棄物裡面的員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物後來把它弄到一般廢棄物另外一個2019年這個COVID-19右手邊第二根COVID-19之後事實上反而也造成很多\n會後是不是提供我們的\n陳金輝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.260 --> 00:07.661\n林月琴議員\n\n00:17.989 --> 00:39.830\n首先我們來看你的那個限塑的政策的成效真的是方法很多元但從我們比較有聽到的就是說比較你覺得很亮眼像循環杯的使用現在去便利超商\n\n00:40.890 --> 00:41.131\n林月琴議員\n\n00:55.960 --> 00:56.881\n每年大概減少的4.6億個小瓶子\n\n01:24.358 --> 01:24.918\n李卓人議員\n\n01:40.063 --> 02:04.501\n我相信剛才看到我的前一頁就知道說好像方法很多做了很多事情我們都覺得很有創意想了很多方法去減塑可是很遺憾的再從經濟部的數據來看的話我們從塑膠袋我們的塑膠餐具的使用量內銷的銷售一直在創新高而且雖然去年有一點下降可是塑膠袋仍然是降不下來\n\n02:05.182 --> 02:11.236\n所以從這個有幾個可以反映得到的是說你91年去推動限塑到112年推動了20幾項\n\n02:14.258 --> 02:14.778\n林月琴議員\n\n02:39.718 --> 02:39.798\n李卓人議員\n\n02:45.882 --> 03:11.363\n第二個你的政策五花八門每項政策都感覺上好像是你環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁今天想到什麼東西舉個手發言然後就去做了到底他真正的要去解決什麼問題所以部長可不可以回答我你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何\n\n03:13.683 --> 03:26.852\n謝謝林委員的提點事實上也是把重點講出來的我們包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用事實上傳統市場癱瘓跟夜市是佔了將近60-70%\n\n03:32.009 --> 03:48.223\n在過去環保署跟環境部在推動限塑的這一塊事實上都是以有開統一花票特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販有14個場域來推行反而這14個場域佔我們整體塑膠袋的使用量\n\n03:54.209 --> 03:58.452\n在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點但是那個痛點會影響我們所有民眾的日常生活\n\n04:09.361 --> 04:33.621\n所以他必須要有一段時間包括透過宣導包括我們所有的民眾都要體認到塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害事實上假如我們能夠配合包括今年聯合國塑膠公約他們會在年底會完成法令的立法\n\n04:34.381 --> 04:45.133\n那全世界都要來推,我們發言是要喚起。部長如果覺得這麼重要,那我覺得今天為什麼在深格環保署公布\n\n04:46.783 --> 05:15.634\n您在2018到2036年的限塑政策你都將全面我們的近現用視為目標可是為什麼不太理解的是2023年升格為環境部的時候突然對外說明這不是唯一解方而且目前我翻找了我們的環境部網站也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向部長剛剛前面你都講說這件事情很重要可是怎麼你的\n\n05:16.714 --> 05:37.056\n檢索目標整個政策大轉彎所以問一下部長說請問臺灣的我們的限塑政策要這樣大轉彎時隔5年為什麼突然政策對林委員報告沒有政策轉彎環保署當初這個剛剛委員所在這個螢幕上這個就是當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子\n\n05:38.800 --> 05:39.380\n今天很多時候是國人的習慣\n\n06:06.754 --> 06:23.392\n到底這陣子你們針對國人習慣又做了些什麼因為目前這14類的場所禁用塑膠袋可是我們的傳統市場小吃攤販早餐店餐廳就如你剛剛講的都沒有納入可是你又要去做可是這邊又沒有去納入要去或者是\n\n06:23.852 --> 06:24.032\n我已經報告了齁\n\n06:48.363 --> 07:10.383\n假如委員有需要更詳細的資料我想我們循環署可以在待會會後提供給委員事實上這個都有一系列所以可不可以借盡其他國際的經驗就是是不是訂定一些國家的目標讓我覺得民眾也要知道說什麼時間點接下來我什麼東西不能用什麼時間點要做什麼然後往前去推\n\n07:11.064 --> 07:39.160\n那可是你一直沒有做都告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重可是沒有更多具體的一些作為所以可不可以有一些針對一次性產品向消費者收取的額外的費用這邊有沒有去做考慮或者是市場流通的管制這些確保一次性塑膠杯跟那個食品容器都重複利用的有沒有可以不含塑膠的替代品的取用都要取代性你可不可以去思考這些\n\n07:40.000 --> 07:42.943\n所以是不是多元併進那我覺得限塑要加速啦從法規面以外還有你的管制面\n\n08:19.589 --> 08:34.564\n主席,再給我兩分鐘熱色的問題,上面這個圖可以深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量但我們可以看出來105年起我們的熱色總量不斷地在攀升\n\n08:35.405 --> 08:56.216\n但橘色的事實上是支援回收量看起來都是正成長也是突破歷史新高可是也代表大家都很認真的在做回收可是我們的垃圾製造量是沒有減少的所以這張圖事實上是我們的焚化爐的處理量能也可以看到112年大幅的減少\n\n08:57.857 --> 08:59.518\n林月琴林月琴\n\n09:27.390 --> 09:29.873\n您問報告這有點誤解因為第三根這邊突然增加那個是因為定義的問題以前\n\n09:49.734 --> 10:07.804\n事業廢棄物裡面的員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物後來把它弄到一般廢棄物另外一個2019年這個COVID-19右手邊第二根COVID-19之後事實上反而也造成很多\n\n10:09.084 --> 10:11.185\n會後是不是提供我們的\n\n10:33.875 --> 10:34.135\n陳金輝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.26,"end":7.661,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":17.989,"end":39.83,"text":"首先我們來看你的那個限塑的政策的成效真的是方法很多元但從我們比較有聽到的就是說比較你覺得很亮眼像循環杯的使用現在去便利超商"},{"start":40.89,"end":41.131,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":55.96,"end":56.881,"text":"每年大概減少的4.6億個小瓶子"},{"start":84.358,"end":84.918,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":100.063,"end":124.501,"text":"我相信剛才看到我的前一頁就知道說好像方法很多做了很多事情我們都覺得很有創意想了很多方法去減塑可是很遺憾的再從經濟部的數據來看的話我們從塑膠袋我們的塑膠餐具的使用量內銷的銷售一直在創新高而且雖然去年有一點下降可是塑膠袋仍然是降不下來"},{"start":125.182,"end":131.236,"text":"所以從這個有幾個可以反映得到的是說你91年去推動限塑到112年推動了20幾項"},{"start":134.258,"end":134.778,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":159.718,"end":159.798,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":165.882,"end":191.363,"text":"第二個你的政策五花八門每項政策都感覺上好像是你環境部的夥伴們或是一些公部門有創意的同仁今天想到什麼東西舉個手發言然後就去做了到底他真正的要去解決什麼問題所以部長可不可以回答我你在推動限塑政策到底遇到什麼困難你覺得你的限塑政策成效如何"},{"start":193.683,"end":206.852,"text":"謝謝林委員的提點事實上也是把重點講出來的我們包括塑膠袋、塑膠製品的使用事實上傳統市場癱瘓跟夜市是佔了將近60-70%"},{"start":212.009,"end":228.223,"text":"在過去環保署跟環境部在推動限塑的這一塊事實上都是以有開統一花票特別是包括百貨公司、超商這些比較大的連鎖店、攤販有14個場域來推行反而這14個場域佔我們整體塑膠袋的使用量"},{"start":234.209,"end":238.452,"text":"在某個程度也可以說沒有打到痛點但是那個痛點會影響我們所有民眾的日常生活"},{"start":249.361,"end":273.621,"text":"所以他必須要有一段時間包括透過宣導包括我們所有的民眾都要體認到塑膠對整個環境甚至是健康的危害事實上假如我們能夠配合包括今年聯合國塑膠公約他們會在年底會完成法令的立法"},{"start":274.381,"end":285.133,"text":"那全世界都要來推,我們發言是要喚起。部長如果覺得這麼重要,那我覺得今天為什麼在深格環保署公布"},{"start":286.783,"end":315.634,"text":"您在2018到2036年的限塑政策你都將全面我們的近現用視為目標可是為什麼不太理解的是2023年升格為環境部的時候突然對外說明這不是唯一解方而且目前我翻找了我們的環境部網站也沒有看到新的路徑跟你的規劃方向部長剛剛前面你都講說這件事情很重要可是怎麼你的"},{"start":316.714,"end":337.056,"text":"檢索目標整個政策大轉彎所以問一下部長說請問臺灣的我們的限塑政策要這樣大轉彎時隔5年為什麼突然政策對林委員報告沒有政策轉彎環保署當初這個剛剛委員所在這個螢幕上這個就是當初環保署的時候就規劃這樣子"},{"start":338.8,"end":339.38,"text":"今天很多時候是國人的習慣"},{"start":366.754,"end":383.392,"text":"到底這陣子你們針對國人習慣又做了些什麼因為目前這14類的場所禁用塑膠袋可是我們的傳統市場小吃攤販早餐店餐廳就如你剛剛講的都沒有納入可是你又要去做可是這邊又沒有去納入要去或者是"},{"start":383.852,"end":384.032,"text":"我已經報告了齁"},{"start":408.363,"end":430.383,"text":"假如委員有需要更詳細的資料我想我們循環署可以在待會會後提供給委員事實上這個都有一系列所以可不可以借盡其他國際的經驗就是是不是訂定一些國家的目標讓我覺得民眾也要知道說什麼時間點接下來我什麼東西不能用什麼時間點要做什麼然後往前去推"},{"start":431.064,"end":459.16,"text":"那可是你一直沒有做都告訴我們這四類場所都很嚴重可是沒有更多具體的一些作為所以可不可以有一些針對一次性產品向消費者收取的額外的費用這邊有沒有去做考慮或者是市場流通的管制這些確保一次性塑膠杯跟那個食品容器都重複利用的有沒有可以不含塑膠的替代品的取用都要取代性你可不可以去思考這些"},{"start":460,"end":462.943,"text":"所以是不是多元併進那我覺得限塑要加速啦從法規面以外還有你的管制面"},{"start":478.66,"end":496.766,"text":"﹗"},{"start":499.589,"end":514.564,"text":"主席,再給我兩分鐘熱色的問題,上面這個圖可以深橘色的是一般廢棄物的總量但我們可以看出來105年起我們的熱色總量不斷地在攀升"},{"start":515.405,"end":536.216,"text":"但橘色的事實上是支援回收量看起來都是正成長也是突破歷史新高可是也代表大家都很認真的在做回收可是我們的垃圾製造量是沒有減少的所以這張圖事實上是我們的焚化爐的處理量能也可以看到112年大幅的減少"},{"start":537.857,"end":539.518,"text":"林月琴 林月琴"},{"start":567.39,"end":569.873,"text":"您問報告這有點誤解因為第三根這邊突然增加那個是因為定義的問題以前"},{"start":589.734,"end":607.804,"text":"事業廢棄物裡面的員工所產生的是歸類在事業廢棄物後來把它弄到一般廢棄物另外一個2019年這個COVID-19右手邊第二根COVID-19之後事實上反而也造成很多"},{"start":609.084,"end":611.185,"text":"會後是不是提供我們的"},{"start":633.875,"end":634.135,"text":"陳金輝委員"}]}}}}