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00:00:34,836\n謝謝主席有請部長委員好部長早安我想就過去我們看到的這些教改的順序跟教改的整個所有的結果那我想少子化其實我們每一次都在提那當時其實我們來看一下就是我們用狗年出生這樣子12年每12年的這個數據我們來看一下那個人口數的部分\n\n2\n00:00:35,376 --> 00:00:35,476\n主席\n\n3\n00:00:55,260 --> 00:01:18,058\n其實是有幾個波段,83年還不明顯最明顯的是在87年開始也就是可能當時教改包含總之一報告書後其實87年,因為我那時候我在地方服務臺北縣這個變化很大所以87年以後是蠻明顯但是也有幾波它是下去又上來龍年當然例外,因為每年其實都是但是整體趨勢是下降的\n\n4\n00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:48,625\n當時其實我們因為教改就特別說要廣設大學、廣設高中那我想當時是因為人口稍微比較穩定所以我們有那樣子的一個想法那再看到我們的幼徒的部分107年其實我們點出來其實蠻明顯的不管是國小、國中、高中級以及大專院校其實從107年之後的新生招生的學校的人數其實這就已經在往下降\n\n5\n00:01:49,185 --> 00:02:11,542\n而且是蠻明顯的往下降,您同意吧?委員這個數據它就是一個客觀的事實,同意是,好那當然其實我們也看到了這幾年就是因為我們在整個所有的教改部分的一些問題我個人是覺得在配套的措施等一下我們也請部長來告訴我們一下跟我們反映的一個速度好嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:12,482 --> 00:02:38,242\n在廣設大學之後其實我們的大專院校有沒有功過於求我們先來看一下83年度當時我們就以公立大學來說就好了當時是15到了102年相對的來講其實大概就將近快10年的一個時間從15到48其實它的增設成長的比例高於三倍\n\n7\n00:02:39,694 --> 00:02:57,186\n這是我們廣設大學再來我們回到剛剛看到從第一頁的右圖107年其實當時我們就已經知道廣設大學但是問題是我們的新生入學的人數其實人數是往下降的您覺得這個問題出在哪裡\n\n8\n00:02:59,730 --> 00:03:20,869\n跟委員報告當時在教改倡議之後其實很多的大學新設啦其實它的數量倒不是那麼多反而是升格啦那升格當中特別是從專科學校就是說原來的技職啦高中就是技高然後升\n\n9\n00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:36,761\n主播的升然後五專升這個技術學院到科大這個是讓他結構產生了一個比較大的變化所以剛才委員提到的這個變化具有在我們目前去看我們產業各方面的需求來看\n\n10\n00:03:37,381 --> 00:03:37,641\n主席\n\n11\n00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:27,403\n再來看一下從國立我們就以國立大學來說好了就是從108年學年度到112年的這個學年度然後我們的合定新生招生的名額跟實際招生人數的一個名額其實是相對的有一點點落差必須說這個落差數字乍看下來其實並不大但是我們用112年的學年度國立大學的部分我們是用所謂的這個師範學院升級\n\n12\n00:04:28,404 --> 00:04:29,486\n除了整併我們的配套措施到底做在哪裡?\n\n13\n00:04:44,798 --> 00:04:58,102\n公文報告當然從92年以後就沒有再新設了這個在之前前面委員所質詢的時候我就特別報告過那時候看得出來整體的供應量已經應該是要做一些管控了\n\n14\n00:05:00,323 --> 00:05:21,576\n對於這個學校的整併我跟委員報告確實在這幾年這些如果就以國立大學而言我舉一個我自己在服務的這段期間面對高雄科大它總共是三所學校的整併就是當時的高雄這三所包含海市的這幾所跟第一應用\n\n15\n00:05:22,356 --> 00:05:45,569\n這整併之後我要跟委員報告他其實當然就學校而言在整體面對競爭跟資源的應用上高雄科技大學即使相較於過去一樣是三所的這些國立的科技技術學院等他其實在整體的發展上量能是更加的足夠我講的是整體\n\n16\n00:05:48,190 --> 00:05:50,752\n我想問一下就是部長我們教育希望大家都能夠廣受所謂的高等教育的目的您覺得這個目的應該是在\n\n17\n00:06:12,848 --> 00:06:30,213\n希望學生在我們的社會當中其實他們受高等教育之後我們最重要的目的跟宗旨應該是什麼根本報告我想是一年教改當時有200多個教育民間團體我只要問目的是什麼對他們就覺得他們就認為應該因為當時台灣的大學錄取率大概只有20幾%他認為這個部分就台灣整體數值的提升上\n\n18\n00:06:40,175 --> 00:07:08,035\n這應該再增加接受高教的機會太好了那也就是說我們為了要彌平我們現階段就是在階級制度上面的流動對不對應該這麼講就是說我們盡量不要M型化我們希望大家能夠普遍的在量能在品質然後在他們整個在求學的一個過程當中其實對於他們來講其實不管是他們的專業也好他們的知識也好都能夠提升是真的為了要避免所謂的\n\n19\n00:07:08,815 --> 00:07:09,035\n主席主席主席\n\n20\n00:07:33,492 --> 00:07:51,566\n進入到所謂的公立一般大學的比例跟人數上面我們來做一個這樣子的一個表我們把紅色的部分框起來我們往下看一下技術體力勞動者跟非技術體力勞動者以及農業從業人員他們進入到所謂的公立大學的比例依舊是偏低的\n\n21\n00:07:52,367 --> 00:08:12,094\n所以我們真的有做到剛剛所說的廣設大學能夠讓M型化能夠解密屏嗎?確實就教育部所掌握到的家庭的社經確實會影響孩子在升學的這相關的路徑所以我們有很多\n\n22\n00:08:12,774 --> 00:08:12,934\n委員會主席\n\n23\n00:08:32,735 --> 00:08:46,580\n蔡總統還有未來新任賴總統他們所提出對私校的這些學長費的補助其實也都在努力追求一個教育平權的相關的措施當然在輔助上面我覺得都還可以繼續再加油\n\n24\n00:08:48,341 --> 00:08:53,846\n這個速度我想還是有一點點慢跟應變的一個措施我們再往下看一張剛剛有說了大學廣設大學的結果會造成什麼樣的一個狀況呢我們來看一下這張圖表其實高學歷他可以支配他的平均所得很明顯的大概是從2009年因為當時其實因為金融海嘯\n\n25\n00:09:12,863 --> 00:09:34,764\n2009年之後其實我們大專畢業生至企業職場實習的方案俗稱22K方案當時的22K方案之後其實你有沒有發現2010年之後連續大概13年以大學學歷的文憑進入到了職場他們的薪資是低於專科的\n\n26\n00:09:35,885 --> 00:09:54,197\n您有注意到這個問題嗎?我跟委員報告我想410的一個變革跟台灣現在所看到的現象當時台灣在410以前是一個真的叫高等教育就是一個精英教育所以大概只有五分之一的孩子是有機會當然這五分之一也表示他的學業應該就是\n\n27\n00:09:56,499 --> 00:09:57,500\n因為絕對不是唯有讀書高這件事情\n\n28\n00:10:21,055 --> 00:10:34,701\n整個社會應該要更加的去肯定擁有好的這些技術的專業人才他應該要得到更多的尊重包含待遇我們肯定但我們也要幫助他們但是我們從這張圖表看到我們一般所謂的高等教育升更計劃合併的一個經費我們去補助所謂的公立的大學\n\n29\n00:10:41,784 --> 00:11:04,924\n以及一般的所謂的公立的技職還有私立的技職我們看到那個落差之大高達了將近6倍之多剛剛我們話都講得很漂亮我們希望能夠讓很多的所謂的技職的人才也能夠進入到我們的產業可是問題是我們的教育我們的教育部的補助的部分它還是focus在公立的一般的大學裡頭喔\n\n30\n00:11:08,466 --> 00:11:29,053\n這個數字我再瞭解一下就我這幾年其實在計職教育的政策跟資源的投資其實是一直在增加當中包含對私立啦比如以下那個什麼區域產學這個培訓基地裡面有很多也都是私立的學校這些都是外加的費用主要目的也是希望能夠讓\n\n31\n00:11:30,553 --> 00:11:33,354\n所以回到我剛剛最初一開始講的我們還是要以學生他們的一個本體來作為考量那如果說其實少子化我們是早就應該可以預期的在他們受教育的各個不同的一個層面當中我們是不是應該要因應措施要反應得更快\n\n32\n00:11:59,119 --> 00:12:13,494\n我們現在已經意識到這樣的問題了廣設高中、廣設大學其實有時候對於這樣子的一個整體的大環境來說尤其是他們之後畢業進入了職場其實不見得會是有幫助的我已經從今天提的順便資料跟委員報告其實92年\n\n33\n00:12:16,437 --> 00:12:44,443\n為什麼當時在全國教育發展會議就提出了這個一定要開始做大學校院數量的管控那就是11年教改後將近10年的時間但是這一些學校一旦成立了就是現在我們必須要去面對當然我們希望其實在520之前我們可能還要把這個部分再更精謹而且更就是更用力的再去做這樣子的一個討論再去做這樣子一個變革才能夠\n\n34\n00:12:45,524 --> 00:12:50,175\n委員這部分我們會持續在政策上來做檢討跟滾動修正好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5678\t34836\t謝謝主席 有請部長委員好部長早安我想就過去我們看到的這些教改的順序跟教改的整個所有的結果那我想少子化其實我們每一次都在提那當時其實我們來看一下就是我們用狗年出生這樣子12年每12年的這個數據我們來看一下那個人口數的部分\n35376\t35476\t主席\n55260\t78058\t其實是有幾個波段,83年還不明顯最明顯的是在87年開始也就是可能當時教改包含總之一報告書後其實87年,因為我那時候我在地方服務臺北縣這個變化很大所以87年以後是蠻明顯但是也有幾波它是下去又上來龍年當然例外,因為每年其實都是但是整體趨勢是下降的\n81160\t108625\t當時其實我們因為教改就特別說要廣設大學、廣設高中那我想當時是因為人口稍微比較穩定所以我們有那樣子的一個想法那再看到我們的幼徒的部分107年其實我們點出來其實蠻明顯的不管是國小、國中、高中級以及大專院校其實從107年之後的新生招生的學校的人數其實這就已經在往下降\n109185\t131542\t而且是蠻明顯的往下降,您同意吧?委員這個數據它就是一個客觀的事實,同意是,好那當然其實我們也看到了這幾年就是因為我們在整個所有的教改部分的一些問題我個人是覺得在配套的措施等一下我們也請部長來告訴我們一下跟我們反映的一個速度好嗎?\n132482\t158242\t在廣設大學之後其實我們的大專院校有沒有功過於求我們先來看一下83年度當時我們就以公立大學來說就好了當時是15到了102年相對的來講其實大概就將近快10年的一個時間從15到48其實它的增設成長的比例高於三倍\n159694\t177186\t這是我們廣設大學再來我們回到剛剛看到從第一頁的右圖107年其實當時我們就已經知道廣設大學但是問題是我們的新生入學的人數其實人數是往下降的您覺得這個問題出在哪裡\n179730\t200869\t跟委員報告當時在教改倡議之後其實很多的大學新設啦其實它的數量倒不是那麼多反而是升格啦那升格當中特別是從專科學校就是說原來的技職啦高中就是技高然後升\n201710\t216761\t主播的升然後五專升這個技術學院到科大這個是讓他結構產生了一個比較大的變化所以剛才委員提到的這個變化具有在我們目前去看我們產業各方面的需求來看\n217381\t217641\t主席\n240120\t267403\t再來看一下從國立我們就以國立大學來說好了就是從108年學年度到112年的這個學年度然後我們的合定新生招生的名額跟實際招生人數的一個名額其實是相對的有一點點落差必須說這個落差數字乍看下來其實並不大但是我們用112年的學年度國立大學的部分我們是用所謂的這個師範學院升級\n268404\t269486\t除了整併我們的配套措施到底做在哪裡?\n284798\t298102\t公文報告當然從92年以後就沒有再新設了這個在之前前面委員所質詢的時候我就特別報告過那時候看得出來整體的供應量已經應該是要做一些管控了\n300323\t321576\t對於這個學校的整併我跟委員報告確實在這幾年這些如果就以國立大學而言我舉一個我自己在服務的這段期間面對高雄科大它總共是三所學校的整併就是當時的高雄這三所包含海市的這幾所跟第一應用\n322356\t345569\t這整併之後我要跟委員報告他其實當然就學校而言在整體面對競爭跟資源的應用上高雄科技大學即使相較於過去一樣是三所的這些國立的科技技術學院等他其實在整體的發展上量能是更加的足夠我講的是整體\n348190\t350752\t我想問一下就是部長我們教育希望大家都能夠廣受所謂的高等教育的目的您覺得這個目的應該是在\n372848\t390213\t希望學生在我們的社會當中其實他們受高等教育之後我們最重要的目的跟宗旨應該是什麼根本報告我想是一年教改當時有200多個教育民間團體我只要問目的是什麼對他們就覺得他們就認為應該因為當時台灣的大學錄取率大概只有20幾%他認為這個部分就台灣整體數值的提升上\n400175\t428035\t這應該再增加接受高教的機會太好了那也就是說我們為了要彌平我們現階段就是在階級制度上面的流動對不對應該這麼講就是說我們盡量不要M型化我們希望大家能夠普遍的在量能在品質然後在他們整個在求學的一個過程當中其實對於他們來講其實不管是他們的專業也好他們的知識也好都能夠提升是真的為了要避免所謂的\n428815\t429035\t主席主席主席\n453492\t471566\t進入到所謂的公立一般大學的比例跟人數上面我們來做一個這樣子的一個表我們把紅色的部分框起來我們往下看一下技術體力勞動者跟非技術體力勞動者以及農業從業人員他們進入到所謂的公立大學的比例依舊是偏低的\n472367\t492094\t所以我們真的有做到剛剛所說的廣設大學能夠讓M型化能夠解密屏嗎?確實就教育部所掌握到的家庭的社經確實會影響孩子在升學的這相關的路徑所以我們有很多\n492774\t492934\t委員會主席\n512735\t526580\t蔡總統還有未來新任賴總統他們所提出對私校的這些學長費的補助其實也都在努力追求一個教育平權的相關的措施當然在輔助上面我覺得都還可以繼續再加油\n528341\t533846\t這個速度我想還是有一點點慢跟應變的一個措施我們再往下看一張剛剛有說了大學廣設大學的結果會造成什麼樣的一個狀況呢我們來看一下這張圖表其實高學歷他可以支配他的平均所得很明顯的大概是從2009年因為當時其實因為金融海嘯\n552863\t574764\t2009年之後其實我們大專畢業生至企業職場實習的方案俗稱22K方案當時的22K方案之後其實你有沒有發現2010年之後連續大概13年以大學學歷的文憑進入到了職場他們的薪資是低於專科的\n575885\t594197\t您有注意到這個問題嗎?我跟委員報告我想410的一個變革跟台灣現在所看到的現象當時台灣在410以前是一個真的叫高等教育就是一個精英教育所以大概只有五分之一的孩子是有機會當然這五分之一也表示他的學業應該就是\n596499\t597500\t因為絕對不是唯有讀書高這件事情\n621055\t634701\t整個社會應該要更加的去肯定擁有好的這些技術的專業人才他應該要得到更多的尊重包含待遇我們肯定但我們也要幫助他們但是我們從這張圖表看到我們一般所謂的高等教育升更計劃合併的一個經費我們去補助所謂的公立的大學\n641784\t664924\t以及一般的所謂的公立的技職還有私立的技職我們看到那個落差之大高達了將近6倍之多剛剛我們話都講得很漂亮我們希望能夠讓很多的所謂的技職的人才也能夠進入到我們的產業可是問題是我們的教育我們的教育部的補助的部分它還是focus在公立的一般的大學裡頭喔\n668466\t689053\t這個數字我再瞭解一下就我這幾年其實在計職教育的政策跟資源的投資其實是一直在增加當中包含對私立啦比如以下那個什麼區域產學這個培訓基地裡面有很多也都是私立的學校這些都是外加的費用主要目的也是希望能夠讓\n690553\t693354\t所以回到我剛剛最初一開始講的我們還是要以學生他們的一個本體來作為考量那如果說其實少子化我們是早就應該可以預期的在他們受教育的各個不同的一個層面當中我們是不是應該要因應措施要反應得更快\n719119\t733494\t我們現在已經意識到這樣的問題了廣設高中、廣設大學其實有時候對於這樣子的一個整體的大環境來說尤其是他們之後畢業進入了職場其實不見得會是有幫助的我已經從今天提的順便資料跟委員報告其實92年\n736437\t764443\t為什麼當時在全國教育發展會議就提出了這個一定要開始做大學校院數量的管控那就是11年教改後將近10年的時間但是這一些學校一旦成立了就是現在我們必須要去面對當然我們希望其實在520之前我們可能還要把這個部分再更精謹而且更就是更用力的再去做這樣子的一個討論再去做這樣子一個變革才能夠\n765524\t770175\t委員這部分我們會持續在政策上來做檢討跟滾動修正好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長委員好部長早安我想就過去我們看到的這些教改的順序跟教改的整個所有的結果那我想少子化其實我們每一次都在提那當時其實我們來看一下就是我們用狗年出生這樣子12年每12年的這個數據我們來看一下那個人口數的部分\n主席\n其實是有幾個波段,83年還不明顯最明顯的是在87年開始也就是可能當時教改包含總之一報告書後其實87年,因為我那時候我在地方服務臺北縣這個變化很大所以87年以後是蠻明顯但是也有幾波它是下去又上來龍年當然例外,因為每年其實都是但是整體趨勢是下降的\n當時其實我們因為教改就特別說要廣設大學、廣設高中那我想當時是因為人口稍微比較穩定所以我們有那樣子的一個想法那再看到我們的幼徒的部分107年其實我們點出來其實蠻明顯的不管是國小、國中、高中級以及大專院校其實從107年之後的新生招生的學校的人數其實這就已經在往下降\n而且是蠻明顯的往下降,您同意吧?委員這個數據它就是一個客觀的事實,同意是,好那當然其實我們也看到了這幾年就是因為我們在整個所有的教改部分的一些問題我個人是覺得在配套的措施等一下我們也請部長來告訴我們一下跟我們反映的一個速度好嗎?\n在廣設大學之後其實我們的大專院校有沒有功過於求我們先來看一下83年度當時我們就以公立大學來說就好了當時是15到了102年相對的來講其實大概就將近快10年的一個時間從15到48其實它的增設成長的比例高於三倍\n這是我們廣設大學再來我們回到剛剛看到從第一頁的右圖107年其實當時我們就已經知道廣設大學但是問題是我們的新生入學的人數其實人數是往下降的您覺得這個問題出在哪裡\n跟委員報告當時在教改倡議之後其實很多的大學新設啦其實它的數量倒不是那麼多反而是升格啦那升格當中特別是從專科學校就是說原來的技職啦高中就是技高然後升\n主播的升然後五專升這個技術學院到科大這個是讓他結構產生了一個比較大的變化所以剛才委員提到的這個變化具有在我們目前去看我們產業各方面的需求來看\n主席\n再來看一下從國立我們就以國立大學來說好了就是從108年學年度到112年的這個學年度然後我們的合定新生招生的名額跟實際招生人數的一個名額其實是相對的有一點點落差必須說這個落差數字乍看下來其實並不大但是我們用112年的學年度國立大學的部分我們是用所謂的這個師範學院升級\n除了整併我們的配套措施到底做在哪裡?\n公文報告當然從92年以後就沒有再新設了這個在之前前面委員所質詢的時候我就特別報告過那時候看得出來整體的供應量已經應該是要做一些管控了\n對於這個學校的整併我跟委員報告確實在這幾年這些如果就以國立大學而言我舉一個我自己在服務的這段期間面對高雄科大它總共是三所學校的整併就是當時的高雄這三所包含海市的這幾所跟第一應用\n這整併之後我要跟委員報告他其實當然就學校而言在整體面對競爭跟資源的應用上高雄科技大學即使相較於過去一樣是三所的這些國立的科技技術學院等他其實在整體的發展上量能是更加的足夠我講的是整體\n我想問一下就是部長我們教育希望大家都能夠廣受所謂的高等教育的目的您覺得這個目的應該是在\n希望學生在我們的社會當中其實他們受高等教育之後我們最重要的目的跟宗旨應該是什麼根本報告我想是一年教改當時有200多個教育民間團體我只要問目的是什麼對他們就覺得他們就認為應該因為當時台灣的大學錄取率大概只有20幾%他認為這個部分就台灣整體數值的提升上\n這應該再增加接受高教的機會太好了那也就是說我們為了要彌平我們現階段就是在階級制度上面的流動對不對應該這麼講就是說我們盡量不要M型化我們希望大家能夠普遍的在量能在品質然後在他們整個在求學的一個過程當中其實對於他們來講其實不管是他們的專業也好他們的知識也好都能夠提升是真的為了要避免所謂的\n主席主席主席\n進入到所謂的公立一般大學的比例跟人數上面我們來做一個這樣子的一個表我們把紅色的部分框起來我們往下看一下技術體力勞動者跟非技術體力勞動者以及農業從業人員他們進入到所謂的公立大學的比例依舊是偏低的\n所以我們真的有做到剛剛所說的廣設大學能夠讓M型化能夠解密屏嗎?確實就教育部所掌握到的家庭的社經確實會影響孩子在升學的這相關的路徑所以我們有很多\n委員會主席\n蔡總統還有未來新任賴總統他們所提出對私校的這些學長費的補助其實也都在努力追求一個教育平權的相關的措施當然在輔助上面我覺得都還可以繼續再加油\n這個速度我想還是有一點點慢跟應變的一個措施我們再往下看一張剛剛有說了大學廣設大學的結果會造成什麼樣的一個狀況呢我們來看一下這張圖表其實高學歷他可以支配他的平均所得很明顯的大概是從2009年因為當時其實因為金融海嘯\n2009年之後其實我們大專畢業生至企業職場實習的方案俗稱22K方案當時的22K方案之後其實你有沒有發現2010年之後連續大概13年以大學學歷的文憑進入到了職場他們的薪資是低於專科的\n您有注意到這個問題嗎?我跟委員報告我想410的一個變革跟台灣現在所看到的現象當時台灣在410以前是一個真的叫高等教育就是一個精英教育所以大概只有五分之一的孩子是有機會當然這五分之一也表示他的學業應該就是\n因為絕對不是唯有讀書高這件事情\n整個社會應該要更加的去肯定擁有好的這些技術的專業人才他應該要得到更多的尊重包含待遇我們肯定但我們也要幫助他們但是我們從這張圖表看到我們一般所謂的高等教育升更計劃合併的一個經費我們去補助所謂的公立的大學\n以及一般的所謂的公立的技職還有私立的技職我們看到那個落差之大高達了將近6倍之多剛剛我們話都講得很漂亮我們希望能夠讓很多的所謂的技職的人才也能夠進入到我們的產業可是問題是我們的教育我們的教育部的補助的部分它還是focus在公立的一般的大學裡頭喔\n這個數字我再瞭解一下就我這幾年其實在計職教育的政策跟資源的投資其實是一直在增加當中包含對私立啦比如以下那個什麼區域產學這個培訓基地裡面有很多也都是私立的學校這些都是外加的費用主要目的也是希望能夠讓\n所以回到我剛剛最初一開始講的我們還是要以學生他們的一個本體來作為考量那如果說其實少子化我們是早就應該可以預期的在他們受教育的各個不同的一個層面當中我們是不是應該要因應措施要反應得更快\n我們現在已經意識到這樣的問題了廣設高中、廣設大學其實有時候對於這樣子的一個整體的大環境來說尤其是他們之後畢業進入了職場其實不見得會是有幫助的我已經從今天提的順便資料跟委員報告其實92年\n為什麼當時在全國教育發展會議就提出了這個一定要開始做大學校院數量的管控那就是11年教改後將近10年的時間但是這一些學校一旦成立了就是現在我們必須要去面對當然我們希望其實在520之前我們可能還要把這個部分再更精謹而且更就是更用力的再去做這樣子的一個討論再去做這樣子一個變革才能夠\n委員這部分我們會持續在政策上來做檢討跟滾動修正好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.678 --> 00:34.836\n謝謝主席有請部長委員好部長早安我想就過去我們看到的這些教改的順序跟教改的整個所有的結果那我想少子化其實我們每一次都在提那當時其實我們來看一下就是我們用狗年出生這樣子12年每12年的這個數據我們來看一下那個人口數的部分\n\n00:35.376 --> 00:35.476\n主席\n\n00:55.260 --> 01:18.058\n其實是有幾個波段,83年還不明顯最明顯的是在87年開始也就是可能當時教改包含總之一報告書後其實87年,因為我那時候我在地方服務臺北縣這個變化很大所以87年以後是蠻明顯但是也有幾波它是下去又上來龍年當然例外,因為每年其實都是但是整體趨勢是下降的\n\n01:21.160 --> 01:48.625\n當時其實我們因為教改就特別說要廣設大學、廣設高中那我想當時是因為人口稍微比較穩定所以我們有那樣子的一個想法那再看到我們的幼徒的部分107年其實我們點出來其實蠻明顯的不管是國小、國中、高中級以及大專院校其實從107年之後的新生招生的學校的人數其實這就已經在往下降\n\n01:49.185 --> 02:11.542\n而且是蠻明顯的往下降,您同意吧?委員這個數據它就是一個客觀的事實,同意是,好那當然其實我們也看到了這幾年就是因為我們在整個所有的教改部分的一些問題我個人是覺得在配套的措施等一下我們也請部長來告訴我們一下跟我們反映的一個速度好嗎?\n\n02:12.482 --> 02:38.242\n在廣設大學之後其實我們的大專院校有沒有功過於求我們先來看一下83年度當時我們就以公立大學來說就好了當時是15到了102年相對的來講其實大概就將近快10年的一個時間從15到48其實它的增設成長的比例高於三倍\n\n02:39.694 --> 02:57.186\n這是我們廣設大學再來我們回到剛剛看到從第一頁的右圖107年其實當時我們就已經知道廣設大學但是問題是我們的新生入學的人數其實人數是往下降的您覺得這個問題出在哪裡\n\n02:59.730 --> 03:20.869\n跟委員報告當時在教改倡議之後其實很多的大學新設啦其實它的數量倒不是那麼多反而是升格啦那升格當中特別是從專科學校就是說原來的技職啦高中就是技高然後升\n\n03:21.710 --> 03:36.761\n主播的升然後五專升這個技術學院到科大這個是讓他結構產生了一個比較大的變化所以剛才委員提到的這個變化具有在我們目前去看我們產業各方面的需求來看\n\n03:37.381 --> 03:37.641\n主席\n\n04:00.120 --> 04:27.403\n再來看一下從國立我們就以國立大學來說好了就是從108年學年度到112年的這個學年度然後我們的合定新生招生的名額跟實際招生人數的一個名額其實是相對的有一點點落差必須說這個落差數字乍看下來其實並不大但是我們用112年的學年度國立大學的部分我們是用所謂的這個師範學院升級\n\n04:28.404 --> 04:29.486\n除了整併我們的配套措施到底做在哪裡?\n\n04:44.798 --> 04:58.102\n公文報告當然從92年以後就沒有再新設了這個在之前前面委員所質詢的時候我就特別報告過那時候看得出來整體的供應量已經應該是要做一些管控了\n\n05:00.323 --> 05:21.576\n對於這個學校的整併我跟委員報告確實在這幾年這些如果就以國立大學而言我舉一個我自己在服務的這段期間面對高雄科大它總共是三所學校的整併就是當時的高雄這三所包含海市的這幾所跟第一應用\n\n05:22.356 --> 05:45.569\n這整併之後我要跟委員報告他其實當然就學校而言在整體面對競爭跟資源的應用上高雄科技大學即使相較於過去一樣是三所的這些國立的科技技術學院等他其實在整體的發展上量能是更加的足夠我講的是整體\n\n05:48.190 --> 05:50.752\n我想問一下就是部長我們教育希望大家都能夠廣受所謂的高等教育的目的您覺得這個目的應該是在\n\n06:12.848 --> 06:30.213\n希望學生在我們的社會當中其實他們受高等教育之後我們最重要的目的跟宗旨應該是什麼根本報告我想是一年教改當時有200多個教育民間團體我只要問目的是什麼對他們就覺得他們就認為應該因為當時台灣的大學錄取率大概只有20幾%他認為這個部分就台灣整體數值的提升上\n\n06:40.175 --> 07:08.035\n這應該再增加接受高教的機會太好了那也就是說我們為了要彌平我們現階段就是在階級制度上面的流動對不對應該這麼講就是說我們盡量不要M型化我們希望大家能夠普遍的在量能在品質然後在他們整個在求學的一個過程當中其實對於他們來講其實不管是他們的專業也好他們的知識也好都能夠提升是真的為了要避免所謂的\n\n07:08.815 --> 07:09.035\n主席主席主席\n\n07:33.492 --> 07:51.566\n進入到所謂的公立一般大學的比例跟人數上面我們來做一個這樣子的一個表我們把紅色的部分框起來我們往下看一下技術體力勞動者跟非技術體力勞動者以及農業從業人員他們進入到所謂的公立大學的比例依舊是偏低的\n\n07:52.367 --> 08:12.094\n所以我們真的有做到剛剛所說的廣設大學能夠讓M型化能夠解密屏嗎?確實就教育部所掌握到的家庭的社經確實會影響孩子在升學的這相關的路徑所以我們有很多\n\n08:12.774 --> 08:12.934\n委員會主席\n\n08:32.735 --> 08:46.580\n蔡總統還有未來新任賴總統他們所提出對私校的這些學長費的補助其實也都在努力追求一個教育平權的相關的措施當然在輔助上面我覺得都還可以繼續再加油\n\n08:48.341 --> 08:53.846\n這個速度我想還是有一點點慢跟應變的一個措施我們再往下看一張剛剛有說了大學廣設大學的結果會造成什麼樣的一個狀況呢我們來看一下這張圖表其實高學歷他可以支配他的平均所得很明顯的大概是從2009年因為當時其實因為金融海嘯\n\n09:12.863 --> 09:34.764\n2009年之後其實我們大專畢業生至企業職場實習的方案俗稱22K方案當時的22K方案之後其實你有沒有發現2010年之後連續大概13年以大學學歷的文憑進入到了職場他們的薪資是低於專科的\n\n09:35.885 --> 09:54.197\n您有注意到這個問題嗎?我跟委員報告我想410的一個變革跟台灣現在所看到的現象當時台灣在410以前是一個真的叫高等教育就是一個精英教育所以大概只有五分之一的孩子是有機會當然這五分之一也表示他的學業應該就是\n\n09:56.499 --> 09:57.500\n因為絕對不是唯有讀書高這件事情\n\n10:21.055 --> 10:34.701\n整個社會應該要更加的去肯定擁有好的這些技術的專業人才他應該要得到更多的尊重包含待遇我們肯定但我們也要幫助他們但是我們從這張圖表看到我們一般所謂的高等教育升更計劃合併的一個經費我們去補助所謂的公立的大學\n\n10:41.784 --> 11:04.924\n以及一般的所謂的公立的技職還有私立的技職我們看到那個落差之大高達了將近6倍之多剛剛我們話都講得很漂亮我們希望能夠讓很多的所謂的技職的人才也能夠進入到我們的產業可是問題是我們的教育我們的教育部的補助的部分它還是focus在公立的一般的大學裡頭喔\n\n11:08.466 --> 11:29.053\n這個數字我再瞭解一下就我這幾年其實在計職教育的政策跟資源的投資其實是一直在增加當中包含對私立啦比如以下那個什麼區域產學這個培訓基地裡面有很多也都是私立的學校這些都是外加的費用主要目的也是希望能夠讓\n\n11:30.553 --> 11:33.354\n所以回到我剛剛最初一開始講的我們還是要以學生他們的一個本體來作為考量那如果說其實少子化我們是早就應該可以預期的在他們受教育的各個不同的一個層面當中我們是不是應該要因應措施要反應得更快\n\n11:59.119 --> 12:13.494\n我們現在已經意識到這樣的問題了廣設高中、廣設大學其實有時候對於這樣子的一個整體的大環境來說尤其是他們之後畢業進入了職場其實不見得會是有幫助的我已經從今天提的順便資料跟委員報告其實92年\n\n12:16.437 --> 12:44.443\n為什麼當時在全國教育發展會議就提出了這個一定要開始做大學校院數量的管控那就是11年教改後將近10年的時間但是這一些學校一旦成立了就是現在我們必須要去面對當然我們希望其實在520之前我們可能還要把這個部分再更精謹而且更就是更用力的再去做這樣子的一個討論再去做這樣子一個變革才能夠\n\n12:45.524 --> 12:50.175\n委員這部分我們會持續在政策上來做檢討跟滾動修正好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.678,"end":34.836,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長委員好部長早安我想就過去我們看到的這些教改的順序跟教改的整個所有的結果那我想少子化其實我們每一次都在提那當時其實我們來看一下就是我們用狗年出生這樣子12年每12年的這個數據我們來看一下那個人口數的部分"},{"start":35.376,"end":35.476,"text":"主席"},{"start":55.26,"end":78.058,"text":"其實是有幾個波段,83年還不明顯最明顯的是在87年開始也就是可能當時教改包含總之一報告書後其實87年,因為我那時候我在地方服務臺北縣這個變化很大所以87年以後是蠻明顯但是也有幾波它是下去又上來龍年當然例外,因為每年其實都是但是整體趨勢是下降的"},{"start":81.16,"end":108.625,"text":"當時其實我們因為教改就特別說要廣設大學、廣設高中那我想當時是因為人口稍微比較穩定所以我們有那樣子的一個想法那再看到我們的幼徒的部分107年其實我們點出來其實蠻明顯的不管是國小、國中、高中級以及大專院校其實從107年之後的新生招生的學校的人數其實這就已經在往下降"},{"start":109.185,"end":131.542,"text":"而且是蠻明顯的往下降,您同意吧?委員這個數據它就是一個客觀的事實,同意是,好那當然其實我們也看到了這幾年就是因為我們在整個所有的教改部分的一些問題我個人是覺得在配套的措施等一下我們也請部長來告訴我們一下跟我們反映的一個速度好嗎?"},{"start":132.482,"end":158.242,"text":"在廣設大學之後其實我們的大專院校有沒有功過於求我們先來看一下83年度當時我們就以公立大學來說就好了當時是15到了102年相對的來講其實大概就將近快10年的一個時間從15到48其實它的增設成長的比例高於三倍"},{"start":159.694,"end":177.186,"text":"這是我們廣設大學再來我們回到剛剛看到從第一頁的右圖107年其實當時我們就已經知道廣設大學但是問題是我們的新生入學的人數其實人數是往下降的您覺得這個問題出在哪裡"},{"start":179.73,"end":200.869,"text":"跟委員報告當時在教改倡議之後其實很多的大學新設啦其實它的數量倒不是那麼多反而是升格啦那升格當中特別是從專科學校就是說原來的技職啦高中就是技高然後升"},{"start":201.71,"end":216.761,"text":"主播的升然後五專升這個技術學院到科大這個是讓他結構產生了一個比較大的變化所以剛才委員提到的這個變化具有在我們目前去看我們產業各方面的需求來看"},{"start":217.381,"end":217.641,"text":"主席"},{"start":240.12,"end":267.403,"text":"再來看一下從國立我們就以國立大學來說好了就是從108年學年度到112年的這個學年度然後我們的合定新生招生的名額跟實際招生人數的一個名額其實是相對的有一點點落差必須說這個落差數字乍看下來其實並不大但是我們用112年的學年度國立大學的部分我們是用所謂的這個師範學院升級"},{"start":268.404,"end":269.486,"text":"除了整併我們的配套措施到底做在哪裡?"},{"start":284.798,"end":298.102,"text":"公文報告當然從92年以後就沒有再新設了這個在之前前面委員所質詢的時候我就特別報告過那時候看得出來整體的供應量已經應該是要做一些管控了"},{"start":300.323,"end":321.576,"text":"對於這個學校的整併我跟委員報告確實在這幾年這些如果就以國立大學而言我舉一個我自己在服務的這段期間面對高雄科大它總共是三所學校的整併就是當時的高雄這三所包含海市的這幾所跟第一應用"},{"start":322.356,"end":345.569,"text":"這整併之後我要跟委員報告他其實當然就學校而言在整體面對競爭跟資源的應用上高雄科技大學即使相較於過去一樣是三所的這些國立的科技技術學院等他其實在整體的發展上量能是更加的足夠我講的是整體"},{"start":348.19,"end":350.752,"text":"我想問一下就是部長我們教育希望大家都能夠廣受所謂的高等教育的目的您覺得這個目的應該是在"},{"start":372.848,"end":390.213,"text":"希望學生在我們的社會當中其實他們受高等教育之後我們最重要的目的跟宗旨應該是什麼根本報告我想是一年教改當時有200多個教育民間團體我只要問目的是什麼對他們就覺得他們就認為應該因為當時台灣的大學錄取率大概只有20幾%他認為這個部分就台灣整體數值的提升上"},{"start":400.175,"end":428.035,"text":"這應該再增加接受高教的機會太好了那也就是說我們為了要彌平我們現階段就是在階級制度上面的流動對不對應該這麼講就是說我們盡量不要M型化我們希望大家能夠普遍的在量能在品質然後在他們整個在求學的一個過程當中其實對於他們來講其實不管是他們的專業也好他們的知識也好都能夠提升是真的為了要避免所謂的"},{"start":428.815,"end":429.035,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":453.492,"end":471.566,"text":"進入到所謂的公立一般大學的比例跟人數上面我們來做一個這樣子的一個表我們把紅色的部分框起來我們往下看一下技術體力勞動者跟非技術體力勞動者以及農業從業人員他們進入到所謂的公立大學的比例依舊是偏低的"},{"start":472.367,"end":492.094,"text":"所以我們真的有做到剛剛所說的廣設大學能夠讓M型化能夠解密屏嗎?確實就教育部所掌握到的家庭的社經確實會影響孩子在升學的這相關的路徑所以我們有很多"},{"start":492.774,"end":492.934,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":512.735,"end":526.58,"text":"蔡總統還有未來新任賴總統他們所提出對私校的這些學長費的補助其實也都在努力追求一個教育平權的相關的措施當然在輔助上面我覺得都還可以繼續再加油"},{"start":528.341,"end":533.846,"text":"這個速度我想還是有一點點慢跟應變的一個措施我們再往下看一張剛剛有說了大學廣設大學的結果會造成什麼樣的一個狀況呢我們來看一下這張圖表其實高學歷他可以支配他的平均所得很明顯的大概是從2009年因為當時其實因為金融海嘯"},{"start":552.863,"end":574.764,"text":"2009年之後其實我們大專畢業生至企業職場實習的方案俗稱22K方案當時的22K方案之後其實你有沒有發現2010年之後連續大概13年以大學學歷的文憑進入到了職場他們的薪資是低於專科的"},{"start":575.885,"end":594.197,"text":"您有注意到這個問題嗎?我跟委員報告我想410的一個變革跟台灣現在所看到的現象當時台灣在410以前是一個真的叫高等教育就是一個精英教育所以大概只有五分之一的孩子是有機會當然這五分之一也表示他的學業應該就是"},{"start":596.499,"end":597.5,"text":"因為絕對不是唯有讀書高這件事情"},{"start":621.055,"end":634.701,"text":"整個社會應該要更加的去肯定擁有好的這些技術的專業人才他應該要得到更多的尊重包含待遇我們肯定但我們也要幫助他們但是我們從這張圖表看到我們一般所謂的高等教育升更計劃合併的一個經費我們去補助所謂的公立的大學"},{"start":641.784,"end":664.924,"text":"以及一般的所謂的公立的技職還有私立的技職我們看到那個落差之大高達了將近6倍之多剛剛我們話都講得很漂亮我們希望能夠讓很多的所謂的技職的人才也能夠進入到我們的產業可是問題是我們的教育我們的教育部的補助的部分它還是focus在公立的一般的大學裡頭喔"},{"start":668.466,"end":689.053,"text":"這個數字我再瞭解一下就我這幾年其實在計職教育的政策跟資源的投資其實是一直在增加當中包含對私立啦比如以下那個什麼區域產學這個培訓基地裡面有很多也都是私立的學校這些都是外加的費用主要目的也是希望能夠讓"},{"start":690.553,"end":693.354,"text":"所以回到我剛剛最初一開始講的我們還是要以學生他們的一個本體來作為考量那如果說其實少子化我們是早就應該可以預期的在他們受教育的各個不同的一個層面當中我們是不是應該要因應措施要反應得更快"},{"start":719.119,"end":733.494,"text":"我們現在已經意識到這樣的問題了廣設高中、廣設大學其實有時候對於這樣子的一個整體的大環境來說尤其是他們之後畢業進入了職場其實不見得會是有幫助的我已經從今天提的順便資料跟委員報告其實92年"},{"start":736.437,"end":764.443,"text":"為什麼當時在全國教育發展會議就提出了這個一定要開始做大學校院數量的管控那就是11年教改後將近10年的時間但是這一些學校一旦成立了就是現在我們必須要去面對當然我們希望其實在520之前我們可能還要把這個部分再更精謹而且更就是更用力的再去做這樣子的一個討論再去做這樣子一個變革才能夠"},{"start":765.524,"end":770.175,"text":"委員這部分我們會持續在政策上來做檢討跟滾動修正好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}}}