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0.632}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 657.1, \"end\": 657.2, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 657.2, \"end\": 657.22, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,369 --> 00:00:22,474\n主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委委員長主委長請問你是什麼時候開始擔任金管會主委這個職務2020年5月2020年的5月那到現在是多久的時間\n\n2\n00:00:35,642 --> 00:01:03,684\n3年11個月左右我在財政委員會今年是第13年我從2012年開始就在財政委員會到現在都沒有離開過我要非常肯定你我認為這13年來我遇到過的金管會主委你是我心目中做得最好的第一名\n\n3\n00:01:04,656 --> 00:01:18,682\n有為有守又能夠很理性地針對問題回答然後務實地針對事情來處理我在這裡給予你高度的肯定當然因為階段性的因素\n\n4\n00:01:21,014 --> 00:01:44,499\n現在已經發布下一任的金管會主委他5204會接任你沒有辦法繼續在這邊為國家貢獻我覺得這個是一個我們國家的一個重大的損失那也祝福你謝謝有你這樣子的責任觀讓我在這個財務委會這13年來看到一個非常棒的模範在這裡跟你表達敬意再來\n\n5\n00:01:46,297 --> 00:02:11,922\n再來就是要問今天這個問題其實有很多的問題你剛剛的回答都已經講得很清楚了銀行為什麼有一些民間借貸會產生就是因為銀行的利率比較高所以他當然要求信用的風險要比較低風險之所在就是利潤之所在那這些民間企業冒著比較高的風險做這些借貸\n\n6\n00:02:14,196 --> 00:02:41,085\n問題是有一些法令對他們的捆綁變成他們也要託法比如說公司法除非你跟公司業務是公司法第15條規定你跟他之間有業務往來或是其他相關的規定否則你待遇他的不能超過公司的禁止的40%嘛所以就變成有很多事實上是在做融資但是為了規避這一條他用非融資的方式在解決就是買來\n\n7\n00:02:44,369 --> 00:03:11,559\n請這個當事人買來然後再賣回去然後再把這中間買來賣去的債權再轉讓給第三者這中間會衍生非常多的問題因為為了要脫這個法所以一個最大的問題在哪裡呢借貸者他在法律知識以及在金融的需求上他的地位明顯不等同於這些租賃公司或是融資公司嘛融資公司、租賃公司他們\n\n8\n00:03:13,407 --> 00:03:34,672\n在法律上的能力也好在借款人對人有所求的時候通常是站在一個比較低的位階會被任人要求所以就會出現很多你剛剛講到的狀況其實那些巧逆名目的收費還不是只有這個\n\n9\n00:03:36,465 --> 00:03:56,817\n委約金這個問題因為委約金也是民法的規定就除了利息之外有時候他要求要手續費然後手續費之外要服務費那另外委約金當然是有還有的要設定費如果車子被拖掉拖掉費、建架費、外訪費他立了一大堆的名目\n\n10\n00:03:58,123 --> 00:04:22,268\n要跟這個需要借貸人拿這些手續費所以民法雖然有規定利率16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準\n\n11\n00:04:23,496 --> 00:04:48,119\n那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在\n\n12\n00:04:49,414 --> 00:04:55,459\n海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法\n\n13\n00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:24,735\n委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要\n\n14\n00:05:25,555 --> 00:05:35,960\n要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是\n\n15\n00:05:37,148 --> 00:06:02,325\n你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是\n\n16\n00:06:03,266 --> 00:06:25,116\n一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由\n\n17\n00:06:27,409 --> 00:06:55,638\n消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了\n\n18\n00:06:57,512 --> 00:07:18,289\n次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款\n\n19\n00:07:19,488 --> 00:07:41,356\n曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者\n\n20\n00:07:42,503 --> 00:07:57,853\n的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是\n\n21\n00:07:59,622 --> 00:08:18,648\n求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以\n\n22\n00:08:21,246 --> 00:08:24,007\n要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。\n\n23\n00:08:41,499 --> 00:09:10,999\n你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的\n\n24\n00:09:12,199 --> 00:09:32,705\n他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念\n\n25\n00:09:35,043 --> 00:10:02,663\n一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點\n\n26\n00:10:05,067 --> 00:10:11,240\n這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來\n\n27\n00:10:13,191 --> 00:10:37,993\n在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是\n\n28\n00:10:39,814 --> 00:10:55,869\n你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理GeorgeandMary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解\n\n29\n00:10:57,100 --> 00:10:57,220\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7369\t22474\t主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委委員長主委長請問你是什麼時候開始擔任金管會主委這個職務2020年5月2020年的5月那到現在是多久的時間\n35642\t63684\t3年11個月左右我在財政委員會今年是第13年我從2012年開始就在財政委員會到現在都沒有離開過我要非常肯定你我認為這13年來我遇到過的金管會主委你是我心目中做得最好的第一名\n64656\t78682\t有為有守又能夠很理性地針對問題回答然後務實地針對事情來處理我在這裡給予你高度的肯定當然因為階段性的因素\n81014\t104499\t現在已經發布下一任的金管會主委他5204會接任你沒有辦法繼續在這邊為國家貢獻我覺得這個是一個我們國家的一個重大的損失那也祝福你謝謝有你這樣子的責任觀讓我在這個財務委會這13年來看到一個非常棒的模範在這裡跟你表達敬意再來\n106297\t131922\t再來就是要問今天這個問題其實有很多的問題你剛剛的回答都已經講得很清楚了銀行為什麼有一些民間借貸會產生就是因為銀行的利率比較高所以他當然要求信用的風險要比較低風險之所在就是利潤之所在那這些民間企業冒著比較高的風險做這些借貸\n134196\t161085\t問題是有一些法令對他們的捆綁變成他們也要託法比如說公司法除非你跟公司業務是公司法第15條規定你跟他之間有業務往來或是其他相關的規定否則你待遇他的不能超過公司的禁止的40%嘛所以就變成有很多事實上是在做融資但是為了規避這一條他用非融資的方式在解決就是買來\n164369\t191559\t請這個當事人買來然後再賣回去然後再把這中間買來賣去的債權再轉讓給第三者這中間會衍生非常多的問題因為為了要脫這個法所以一個最大的問題在哪裡呢借貸者他在法律知識以及在金融的需求上他的地位明顯不等同於這些租賃公司或是融資公司嘛融資公司、租賃公司他們\n193407\t214672\t在法律上的能力也好在借款人對人有所求的時候通常是站在一個比較低的位階會被任人要求所以就會出現很多你剛剛講到的狀況其實那些巧逆名目的收費還不是只有這個\n216465\t236817\t委約金這個問題因為委約金也是民法的規定就除了利息之外有時候他要求要手續費然後手續費之外要服務費那另外委約金當然是有還有的要設定費如果車子被拖掉拖掉費、建架費、外訪費他立了一大堆的名目\n238123\t262268\t要跟這個需要借貸人拿這些手續費所以民法雖然有規定利率16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準\n263496\t288119\t那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在\n289414\t295459\t海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法\n296840\t324735\t委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要\n325555\t335960\t要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是\n337148\t362325\t你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是\n363266\t385116\t一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由\n387409\t415638\t消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了\n417512\t438289\t次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款\n439488\t461356\t曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者\n462503\t477853\t的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是\n479622\t498648\t求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以\n501246\t504007\t要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。\n521499\t550999\t你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的\n552199\t572705\t他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念\n575043\t602663\t一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點\n605067\t611240\t這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來\n613191\t637993\t在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是\n639814\t655869\t你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理George and Mary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解\n657100\t657220\t主席\n","txt":"主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委委員長主委長請問你是什麼時候開始擔任金管會主委這個職務2020年5月2020年的5月那到現在是多久的時間\n3年11個月左右我在財政委員會今年是第13年我從2012年開始就在財政委員會到現在都沒有離開過我要非常肯定你我認為這13年來我遇到過的金管會主委你是我心目中做得最好的第一名\n有為有守又能夠很理性地針對問題回答然後務實地針對事情來處理我在這裡給予你高度的肯定當然因為階段性的因素\n現在已經發布下一任的金管會主委他5204會接任你沒有辦法繼續在這邊為國家貢獻我覺得這個是一個我們國家的一個重大的損失那也祝福你謝謝有你這樣子的責任觀讓我在這個財務委會這13年來看到一個非常棒的模範在這裡跟你表達敬意再來\n再來就是要問今天這個問題其實有很多的問題你剛剛的回答都已經講得很清楚了銀行為什麼有一些民間借貸會產生就是因為銀行的利率比較高所以他當然要求信用的風險要比較低風險之所在就是利潤之所在那這些民間企業冒著比較高的風險做這些借貸\n問題是有一些法令對他們的捆綁變成他們也要託法比如說公司法除非你跟公司業務是公司法第15條規定你跟他之間有業務往來或是其他相關的規定否則你待遇他的不能超過公司的禁止的40%嘛所以就變成有很多事實上是在做融資但是為了規避這一條他用非融資的方式在解決就是買來\n請這個當事人買來然後再賣回去然後再把這中間買來賣去的債權再轉讓給第三者這中間會衍生非常多的問題因為為了要脫這個法所以一個最大的問題在哪裡呢借貸者他在法律知識以及在金融的需求上他的地位明顯不等同於這些租賃公司或是融資公司嘛融資公司、租賃公司他們\n在法律上的能力也好在借款人對人有所求的時候通常是站在一個比較低的位階會被任人要求所以就會出現很多你剛剛講到的狀況其實那些巧逆名目的收費還不是只有這個\n委約金這個問題因為委約金也是民法的規定就除了利息之外有時候他要求要手續費然後手續費之外要服務費那另外委約金當然是有還有的要設定費如果車子被拖掉拖掉費、建架費、外訪費他立了一大堆的名目\n要跟這個需要借貸人拿這些手續費所以民法雖然有規定利率16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準\n那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在\n海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法\n委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要\n要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是\n你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是\n一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由\n消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了\n次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款\n曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者\n的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是\n求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以\n要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。\n你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的\n他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念\n一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點\n這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來\n在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是\n你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理George and Mary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.369 --> 00:22.474\n主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委委員長主委長請問你是什麼時候開始擔任金管會主委這個職務2020年5月2020年的5月那到現在是多久的時間\n\n00:35.642 --> 01:03.684\n3年11個月左右我在財政委員會今年是第13年我從2012年開始就在財政委員會到現在都沒有離開過我要非常肯定你我認為這13年來我遇到過的金管會主委你是我心目中做得最好的第一名\n\n01:04.656 --> 01:18.682\n有為有守又能夠很理性地針對問題回答然後務實地針對事情來處理我在這裡給予你高度的肯定當然因為階段性的因素\n\n01:21.014 --> 01:44.499\n現在已經發布下一任的金管會主委他5204會接任你沒有辦法繼續在這邊為國家貢獻我覺得這個是一個我們國家的一個重大的損失那也祝福你謝謝有你這樣子的責任觀讓我在這個財務委會這13年來看到一個非常棒的模範在這裡跟你表達敬意再來\n\n01:46.297 --> 02:11.922\n再來就是要問今天這個問題其實有很多的問題你剛剛的回答都已經講得很清楚了銀行為什麼有一些民間借貸會產生就是因為銀行的利率比較高所以他當然要求信用的風險要比較低風險之所在就是利潤之所在那這些民間企業冒著比較高的風險做這些借貸\n\n02:14.196 --> 02:41.085\n問題是有一些法令對他們的捆綁變成他們也要託法比如說公司法除非你跟公司業務是公司法第15條規定你跟他之間有業務往來或是其他相關的規定否則你待遇他的不能超過公司的禁止的40%嘛所以就變成有很多事實上是在做融資但是為了規避這一條他用非融資的方式在解決就是買來\n\n02:44.369 --> 03:11.559\n請這個當事人買來然後再賣回去然後再把這中間買來賣去的債權再轉讓給第三者這中間會衍生非常多的問題因為為了要脫這個法所以一個最大的問題在哪裡呢借貸者他在法律知識以及在金融的需求上他的地位明顯不等同於這些租賃公司或是融資公司嘛融資公司、租賃公司他們\n\n03:13.407 --> 03:34.672\n在法律上的能力也好在借款人對人有所求的時候通常是站在一個比較低的位階會被任人要求所以就會出現很多你剛剛講到的狀況其實那些巧逆名目的收費還不是只有這個\n\n03:36.465 --> 03:56.817\n委約金這個問題因為委約金也是民法的規定就除了利息之外有時候他要求要手續費然後手續費之外要服務費那另外委約金當然是有還有的要設定費如果車子被拖掉拖掉費、建架費、外訪費他立了一大堆的名目\n\n03:58.123 --> 04:22.268\n要跟這個需要借貸人拿這些手續費所以民法雖然有規定利率16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準\n\n04:23.496 --> 04:48.119\n那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在\n\n04:49.414 --> 04:55.459\n海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法\n\n04:56.840 --> 05:24.735\n委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要\n\n05:25.555 --> 05:35.960\n要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是\n\n05:37.148 --> 06:02.325\n你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是\n\n06:03.266 --> 06:25.116\n一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由\n\n06:27.409 --> 06:55.638\n消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了\n\n06:57.512 --> 07:18.289\n次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款\n\n07:19.488 --> 07:41.356\n曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者\n\n07:42.503 --> 07:57.853\n的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是\n\n07:59.622 --> 08:18.648\n求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以\n\n08:21.246 --> 08:24.007\n要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。\n\n08:41.499 --> 09:10.999\n你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的\n\n09:12.199 --> 09:32.705\n他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念\n\n09:35.043 --> 10:02.663\n一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點\n\n10:05.067 --> 10:11.240\n這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來\n\n10:13.191 --> 10:37.993\n在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是\n\n10:39.814 --> 10:55.869\n你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理GeorgeandMary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解\n\n10:57.100 --> 10:57.220\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.369,"end":22.474,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委委員長主委長請問你是什麼時候開始擔任金管會主委這個職務2020年5月2020年的5月那到現在是多久的時間"},{"start":35.642,"end":63.684,"text":"3年11個月左右我在財政委員會今年是第13年我從2012年開始就在財政委員會到現在都沒有離開過我要非常肯定你我認為這13年來我遇到過的金管會主委你是我心目中做得最好的第一名"},{"start":64.656,"end":78.682,"text":"有為有守又能夠很理性地針對問題回答然後務實地針對事情來處理我在這裡給予你高度的肯定當然因為階段性的因素"},{"start":81.014,"end":104.499,"text":"現在已經發布下一任的金管會主委他5204會接任你沒有辦法繼續在這邊為國家貢獻我覺得這個是一個我們國家的一個重大的損失那也祝福你謝謝有你這樣子的責任觀讓我在這個財務委會這13年來看到一個非常棒的模範在這裡跟你表達敬意再來"},{"start":106.297,"end":131.922,"text":"再來就是要問今天這個問題其實有很多的問題你剛剛的回答都已經講得很清楚了銀行為什麼有一些民間借貸會產生就是因為銀行的利率比較高所以他當然要求信用的風險要比較低風險之所在就是利潤之所在那這些民間企業冒著比較高的風險做這些借貸"},{"start":134.196,"end":161.085,"text":"問題是有一些法令對他們的捆綁變成他們也要託法比如說公司法除非你跟公司業務是公司法第15條規定你跟他之間有業務往來或是其他相關的規定否則你待遇他的不能超過公司的禁止的40%嘛所以就變成有很多事實上是在做融資但是為了規避這一條他用非融資的方式在解決就是買來"},{"start":164.369,"end":191.559,"text":"請這個當事人買來然後再賣回去然後再把這中間買來賣去的債權再轉讓給第三者這中間會衍生非常多的問題因為為了要脫這個法所以一個最大的問題在哪裡呢借貸者他在法律知識以及在金融的需求上他的地位明顯不等同於這些租賃公司或是融資公司嘛融資公司、租賃公司他們"},{"start":193.407,"end":214.672,"text":"在法律上的能力也好在借款人對人有所求的時候通常是站在一個比較低的位階會被任人要求所以就會出現很多你剛剛講到的狀況其實那些巧逆名目的收費還不是只有這個"},{"start":216.465,"end":236.817,"text":"委約金這個問題因為委約金也是民法的規定就除了利息之外有時候他要求要手續費然後手續費之外要服務費那另外委約金當然是有還有的要設定費如果車子被拖掉拖掉費、建架費、外訪費他立了一大堆的名目"},{"start":238.123,"end":262.268,"text":"要跟這個需要借貸人拿這些手續費所以民法雖然有規定利率16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準"},{"start":263.496,"end":288.119,"text":"那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在"},{"start":289.414,"end":295.459,"text":"海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":296.84,"end":324.735,"text":"委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要"},{"start":325.555,"end":335.96,"text":"要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是"},{"start":337.148,"end":362.325,"text":"你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是"},{"start":363.266,"end":385.116,"text":"一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由"},{"start":387.409,"end":415.638,"text":"消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了"},{"start":417.512,"end":438.289,"text":"次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款"},{"start":439.488,"end":461.356,"text":"曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者"},{"start":462.503,"end":477.853,"text":"的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是"},{"start":479.622,"end":498.648,"text":"求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以"},{"start":501.246,"end":504.007,"text":"要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。"},{"start":521.499,"end":550.999,"text":"你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的"},{"start":552.199,"end":572.705,"text":"他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念"},{"start":575.043,"end":602.663,"text":"一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點"},{"start":605.067,"end":611.24,"text":"這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來"},{"start":613.191,"end":637.993,"text":"在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是"},{"start":639.814,"end":655.869,"text":"你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理George and Mary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解"},{"start":657.1,"end":657.22,"text":"主席"}]}}}}