{"id":151219,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151219","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162784547ff5ffc955bcf65493343f37da33c5dab72e655c1c94b36baeae8c032c655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:42:54 - 09:52:44","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王育敏等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（七）國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員柯志恩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（九）、（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-13"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":590,"end_time":"2024-04-17T09:52:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T09:42:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":459,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時43分）主席，我們請蔡次長。"],["主席：麻煩蔡次長。"],["沈委員發惠：蔡次長早。"],["蔡次長碧仲：委員早。"],["沈委員發惠：我想今天本院司法委員會安排有關於刑法第二百八十六條、第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正案的審查，我想這是展現本院委員對於民意的快速回應，當然在這一段時間裡面，包括剛剛所有每一個案子的提案說明過程，聽起來大家的意見滿一致的，就是大家對於目前社會因為發生具體的虐童案件，所以讓民意認為應該要在我們的刑法，包括刑度上面應該要有所調整。因此有很多委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案，也很快的，我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來進行審查。","剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度。"],["蔡次長碧仲：是。"],["沈委員發惠：我聽起來是這樣，就是法務部完全沒有反對這個修法，但是……"],["蔡次長碧仲：完全同意委員修法的目的，我們只是說，法務部就專業提供意見給委員酌參。"],["沈委員發惠：對，你們就針對每一個案子……"],["蔡次長碧仲：我再澄清一下，剛剛我也沒有說這是違憲……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道。"],["蔡次長碧仲：可能是司法院誤會我的意思了。"],["沈委員發惠：我從頭聽到尾，你沒有說違憲兩個字，沒有啦！"],["蔡次長碧仲：我沒有說違憲，我是說這一條如果解了第二百八十六條，不給他假釋，那殺人要不要給他假釋？我只是說相類或比它重的要給他假釋。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道，要慢慢來啦！我知道剛才可能時間很短，有一些觀念你沒有辦法講清楚。"],["蔡次長碧仲：那讓我講清楚沒關係。"],["沈委員發惠：對，我們一個一個來探討。"],["蔡次長碧仲：好。"],["沈委員發惠：事實上，法務部沒有反對這個修法。"],["蔡次長碧仲：完全同意，修法的動機跟目的完全同意。"],["沈委員發惠：對，但是對於每一個個別委員提出的草案，它可能有一些必須斟酌的地方，就是今天在審查時，最後我們必須要斟酌的地方，所以你剛才是一一地就該斟酌的點，包括假釋、刑度、年齡的限制等等，這些你都有提嘛。"],["蔡次長碧仲：是。"],["沈委員發惠：那可能時間不夠，因為我怕在太短的時間裡面，你這樣子講會讓這個……"],["蔡次長碧仲：那我再簡要地跟委員報告，1分鐘就好。"],["沈委員發惠：這個我知道，我會給你時間啦！"],["蔡次長碧仲：好。"],["沈委員發惠：次長，對我來講，每一次在新聞上只要看到虐童案，我有時候連看都不敢看，我們為人父母的人看到這種案件，大家都非常心痛，而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看，所以社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求，甚至有要求虐童唯一死刑的連署，也通過了連署的門檻，這個我們都可以理解，但是畢竟立法院不是PTT，立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的，今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑。再來，持有兒少色情影像唯一死刑、酒駕唯一死刑，然後就今天修這個、明天修那個，之後刑法就全部變成唯一死刑，所以今天的審查我希望能夠探討這個部分。我會給次長時間啦，其實我看我們的修法，好像只有1位委員把它修在殺人罪的罪責，其他4個是在傷害罪的罪章裡面，對不對？第二百八十六條在傷害罪罪章裡面，所以我們整個修法，剛才次長在法案說明的時候有提到，你要整體地去做法益侵害輕重的衡平嘛。"],["蔡次長碧仲：是。"],["沈委員發惠：這個很重要，這部分就給次長時間補充。"],["蔡次長碧仲：非常感謝委員給我這個機會，我站在這個位置，我跟主席一樣，主席在不久之前還是我們的檢座，各位委員也不是生下來就是立法委員。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有人生下來就是立法委員。"],["蔡次長碧仲：我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久，所以我要跟各位委員報告，法律定出去，大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見，他都會說這是立法委員定的。"],["沈委員發惠：對。"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以中華民國的法律，你定出來的話，以後丟臉的不會是我蔡碧仲，大家會說是中華民國的立法院訂出來的，所以既然大家的動機、目的都一樣，為什麼不把它弄得讓以後任何人看到的時候，就對立法委員豎起大拇指，不管是哪一屆的，所以我才跟委員報告說，不是只有我們在這裡嚴訂法定刑，剛剛有委員提到這些公務人員徒法不足以自行，中華民國設了這麼多的部會，衛福部、警政署、內政部，各單位有沒有去落實他們必須要負責的權責，有負責之後，結果發現真的是法律的缺漏，我們就來修改。"],["沈委員發惠：對，次長……"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以所有的法定刑裡面，殺人就是最重的，你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識，說這個行為大家都不能接受，然後突然把它弄成比殺人還重。"],["沈委員發惠：對，次長，我剛剛跟次長在探討的就是這樣，在刑法裡面它不是只有單獨這一條法條。"],["蔡次長碧仲：是，一個房子裡面相依相偎的……"],["沈委員發惠：各個法條有不同的法益，要衡量它對社會的危害、對法益侵害的輕重。"],["蔡次長碧仲：是。"],["沈委員發惠：你不能說對法益侵害重的，結果它的刑度比較輕；對法益侵害輕的，它的刑度比較重，如果有這樣的立法，那這就是……"],["蔡次長碧仲：是很奇怪的立法。"],["沈委員發惠：對，就會喪失了這個……"],["蔡次長碧仲：以後每次檢察官在偵查或是我們的司法警察人員或是法官在審判，心裡面就會罵這是什麼法條，什麼人定出來的！"],["沈委員發惠：對，如果真的訂出這樣的法令，其實最嚴重、最嚴重也是你剛剛講的丟臉而已啦！但是其實我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉，或者說這個法益平不平衡的問題，我們更擔心的是因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化，這個會更嚴重。"],["蔡次長碧仲：那當然。"],["沈委員發惠：例如虐童傷害致死唯一死刑，假設這樣子訂，未來如果有虐童的人，小孩子受傷了要送醫院，我不敢送醫院，我送醫院，萬一他死了，我就唯一死刑啦，那我乾脆就把他埋掉算了。"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以罪刑相當是有意義的。"],["沈委員發惠：對，我個人認為我們立法也要避免這種因為我們的良善立意，結果反而助長這個犯罪行為對社會法益的侵害。"],["蔡次長碧仲：對，所以歷屆以來，很多委員聚精會神，大家集中精力，就是要讓我們所立出去的法律不能前後矛盾，所立出去的法律要能夠確實執行。"],["沈委員發惠：對。"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以我們立了法，這個訂死刑，但死刑不執行，訂了死刑沒有用啊！訂了死刑，但法官不敢判，訂死刑有什麼用呢？"],["沈委員發惠：對。"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以法貴執行，能夠執行的法律，才是良法。"],["沈委員發惠：好，因為今天我們在討論、在這個時機立法，我看有很多委員都希望今天就要處理，我現在因為時間到了，但我還有一個技術上的問題，我們每一個委員的立法，有的是十八歲，有的是六歲，有七歲，有三歲，這個年齡的標準限制，它必須要有一個理由，十八歲是有一個法律理由。"],["蔡次長碧仲：有，你不是不能改，所以剛剛司法院的副座一直講尊重大院，不是不能改，大院可以改六歲，可以改五歲。"],["沈委員發惠：對，但是要有一個理由。"],["蔡次長碧仲：為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用？七歲就是一個意識能力、行為能力的界限，你不用，你要改六歲，不是不能改，你的根據在哪裡？把它的理由寫清楚，我們不是不同意。"],["沈委員發惠：對，沒有錯。"],["蔡次長碧仲：行之有年的體制，你突然要改它，可以啊！不是不可以。"],["沈委員發惠：所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條討論的時候，我們希望法務部在這個部分能夠講清楚你們的立場跟看法，謝謝。"],["蔡次長碧仲：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-13","speakers":["吳宗憲","傅崐萁","廖偉翔","王育敏","徐欣瑩","陳超明","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","黃健豪"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委\n員徐巧芯等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等19人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等20\n人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八\n十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員柯志恩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正\n草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)\n委員陳超明等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1132901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151219","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151219","tool":"pyannote","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\"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,479 --> 00:00:39,372\n主席我們請蔡市長麻煩蔡市長蔡市長早我想我們今天我們本院司法委員會安排這個有關於刑法第兩百\n\n2\n00:00:41,042 --> 00:01:08,177\n兩百八十六條第七十七條及兩百七十二條之一的這些修正案的審查我想這是展現說我們本院委員事實上大家對於民意的快速的回應當然在這段時間裡面包括剛剛所有的各每一個案子的提案說明過程大家都其實聽起來就是意見滿一致這是大家對於這個目前社會\n\n3\n00:01:09,363 --> 00:01:35,054\n因為這個發生了這個這個具體的這個虐童案件所以讓讓這個民意認為應該要在這個我們的刑法的這個包括刑度上面應該有所調整那因此今天我們很快的有很多的委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案那也很快的我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來來進行審查了\n\n4\n00:01:38,271 --> 00:01:52,432\n那剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度我聽起來是這樣就是說法務部完全沒有反對這個修法\n\n5\n00:01:53,120 --> 00:02:16,821\n我完全同意這個委員修法的目的那我們只是說就法務部提供這個專業給委員去著參我們也沒有剛剛我再澄清一下我也沒有說這個是違憲因為可能司法院我從頭聽到尾啦你沒有說違憲我沒有說違憲我是說我們這一條如果結了286不給他假釋那殺人要不給他假釋\n\n6\n00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:17,581\n三）委員\n\n7\n00:02:42,509 --> 00:03:08,503\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會提出的草案他可能有一些必須斟酌的地方就是今天在審查最後我們必須要斟酌他的地方所以你剛才是一一的就該斟酌的點包括假釋的包括刑度的包括年齡的限制等等這些你都提那可能時間因為我怕說在太短的時間裡面你這樣子講會讓讓這個讓我再剪一下一分鐘就好我會給你時間啦市長\n\n8\n00:03:12,966 --> 00:03:33,826\n這個是這樣子啦,我們這個當然對我來講每一次新聞只要看到虐童案我有時候連看都不敢看我們為人父母的人看到這種案件大家都非常心痛而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看它\n\n9\n00:03:35,310 --> 00:04:04,249\n社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求甚至有連署要求這個這個劣童唯一死刑的連署也通過了連署的門檻這個這個我們都都都可以理解啦齁但是畢竟立法院不是PTT啦齁我們不是在這裡這立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的每一個齁這個這個今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑再來持有持有持有這個這個兒少色情影像唯一死刑酒駕唯一死刑\n\n10\n00:04:05,129 --> 00:04:28,691\n全然後然後就就今天修這個明天修這個他唯一死刑之後這個刑法就全部變成唯一死刑那所以所以這個這個我們也就就要來今天審查我就希望說能夠探討這個部分當然部長我我會給給次長時間的齁就是說其實我看這個我們的修法大概只有好像只有一位委員還把把把他修修在這個殺人\n\n11\n00:04:30,211 --> 00:04:54,996\n殺人罪的罪責其他其實它這個是一個傷害罪是在傷害罪的罪章裏面對不對這個兩百八十六條它是傷害罪的罪章裏面所以我們整個修法剛才市長在法案說明的時候提到你要整體的去做這個法益侵害輕重的這個橫平嘛這個很重要啦這個很重要好這部分就請給市長時間感謝非常感謝委員給我這個機會齁\n\n12\n00:04:59,707 --> 00:05:27,538\n我會站在這個位置我們跟主席一樣主席在這不久之前還是以我們的簡作各位委員很可能在之前也不是剩下來就是立法委員我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久所以我要跟各位委員報告就是說法律定出去大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見他都會說這是立法委員定的\n\n13\n00:05:28,692 --> 00:05:37,378\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．\n\n14\n00:05:56,411 --> 00:06:11,120\n條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n15\n00:06:26,656 --> 00:06:46,192\n你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識說這個行為大家都不能接受然後突然把它弄成說這個比殺人還重市長現在我剛剛跟市長在探討的就是這樣子就是刑法裡面它不是單獨這一條法條嘛它是各個法條有不同的刑害不同的法律然後有一個衡量它的這個對社會危害對法律侵害的輕重你不能說對這個法律侵害重的結果它的刑處比較輕\n\n16\n00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:59,583\n三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n\n17\n00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:34,598\n最嚴重最嚴重也是你剛剛講的說丟臉而已的但是其實這個我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉或是說這個法律不平衡的問題我們更擔心的是說因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化這個會更嚴重例如說你說你說\n\n18\n00:07:37,902 --> 00:07:54,457\n內同傷害致死唯一死刑,假設這樣子定,未來如果有內同人,小孩子受傷了要送醫院,我不敢送醫院啊,我送醫院萬一他死了我就唯一死刑啦,乾脆就把他埋掉算了。\n\n19\n00:07:55,222 --> 00:07:55,342\n三）委員\n\n20\n00:08:13,567 --> 00:08:34,294\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案�\n\n21\n00:08:40,896 --> 00:08:42,277\n條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具\n\n22\n00:09:00,163 --> 00:09:19,014\n這個年齡的標準限制他必須要有一個理由18歲是有一個法律理由你不是不能改所以剛剛我們司法院的我們副座一直講尊重大院的不是不能改大院可以改六歲可以改五歲為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用\n\n23\n00:09:20,356 --> 00:09:45,453\n七歲就是一個意識能力行為能力的一個界限你不用你要改六歲你是不是不能改你的根據在哪裡你把它理由寫清楚我們不是不同意就是說我需要知道說突然行之有能的這樣的一個體制你要改它所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條大家在討論的時候我們希望法務部能夠在這個部分能夠講清楚我們法務部的立場跟看法好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12479\t39372\t主席我們請蔡市長麻煩蔡市長蔡市長早我想我們今天我們本院司法委員會安排這個有關於刑法第兩百\n41042\t68177\t兩百八十六條第七十七條及兩百七十二條之一的這些修正案的審查我想這是展現說我們本院委員事實上大家對於民意的快速的回應當然在這段時間裡面包括剛剛所有的各每一個案子的提案說明過程大家都其實聽起來就是意見滿一致這是大家對於這個目前社會\n69363\t95054\t因為這個發生了這個這個具體的這個虐童案件所以讓讓這個民意認為應該要在這個我們的刑法的這個包括刑度上面應該有所調整那因此今天我們很快的有很多的委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案那也很快的我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來來進行審查了\n98271\t112432\t那剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度我聽起來是這樣就是說法務部完全沒有反對這個修法\n113120\t136821\t我完全同意這個委員修法的目的那我們只是說就法務部提供這個專業給委員去著參我們也沒有剛剛我再澄清一下我也沒有說這個是違憲因為可能司法院我從頭聽到尾啦你沒有說違憲我沒有說違憲我是說我們這一條如果結了286不給他假釋那殺人要不給他假釋\n137481\t137581\t三）委員\n162509\t188503\t立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會提出的草案他可能有一些必須斟酌的地方就是今天在審查最後我們必須要斟酌他的地方所以你剛才是一一的就該斟酌的點包括假釋的包括刑度的包括年齡的限制等等這些你都提那可能時間因為我怕說在太短的時間裡面你這樣子講會讓讓這個讓我再剪一下一分鐘就好我會給你時間啦市長\n192966\t213826\t這個是這樣子啦,我們這個當然對我來講每一次新聞只要看到虐童案我有時候連看都不敢看我們為人父母的人看到這種案件大家都非常心痛而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看它\n215310\t244249\t社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求甚至有連署要求這個這個劣童唯一死刑的連署也通過了連署的門檻這個這個我們都都都可以理解啦齁但是畢竟立法院不是PTT啦齁我們不是在這裡這立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的每一個齁這個這個今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑再來持有持有持有這個這個兒少色情影像唯一死刑酒駕唯一死刑\n245129\t268691\t全然後然後就就今天修這個明天修這個他唯一死刑之後這個刑法就全部變成唯一死刑那所以所以這個這個我們也就就要來今天審查我就希望說能夠探討這個部分當然部長我我會給給次長時間的齁就是說其實我看這個我們的修法大概只有好像只有一位委員還把把把他修修在這個殺人\n270211\t294996\t殺人罪的罪責 其他其實它這個是一個傷害罪是在傷害罪的罪章裏面 對不對這個兩百八十六條它是傷害罪的罪章裏面所以我們整個修法剛才市長在法案說明的時候提到你要整體的去做這個法益侵害輕重的這個橫平嘛 這個很重要啦 這個很重要好 這部分就請給市長時間感謝 非常感謝委員給我這個機會齁\n299707\t327538\t我會站在這個位置我們跟主席一樣主席在這不久之前還是以我們的簡作各位委員很可能在之前也不是剩下來就是立法委員我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久所以我要跟各位委員報告就是說法律定出去大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見他都會說這是立法委員定的\n328692\t337378\t刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．\n356411\t371120\t條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n386656\t406192\t你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識說這個行為大家都不能接受然後突然把它弄成說這個比殺人還重市長現在我剛剛跟市長在探討的就是這樣子就是刑法裡面它不是單獨這一條法條嘛它是各個法條有不同的刑害不同的法律然後有一個衡量它的這個對社會危害對法律侵害的輕重你不能說對這個法律侵害重的結果它的刑處比較輕\n415900\t419583\t三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n440140\t454598\t最嚴重最嚴重也是你剛剛講的說丟臉而已的但是其實這個我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉或是說這個法律不平衡的問題我們更擔心的是說因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化這個會更嚴重例如說你說你說\n457902\t474457\t內同傷害致死唯一死刑,假設這樣子定,未來如果有內同人,小孩子受傷了要送醫院,我不敢送醫院啊,我送醫院萬一他死了我就唯一死刑啦,乾脆就把他埋掉算了。\n475222\t475342\t三）委員\n493567\t514294\t刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案�\n520896\t522277\t條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具\n540163\t559014\t這個年齡的標準限制他必須要有一個理由18歲是有一個法律理由你不是不能改所以剛剛我們司法院的我們副座一直講尊重大院的不是不能改大院可以改六歲可以改五歲為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用\n560356\t585453\t七歲就是一個意識能力行為能力的一個界限你不用你要改六歲你是不是不能改你的根據在哪裡你把它理由寫清楚我們不是不同意就是說我需要知道說突然行之有能的這樣的一個體制你要改它所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條大家在討論的時候我們希望法務部能夠在這個部分能夠講清楚我們法務部的立場跟看法好謝謝\n","txt":"主席我們請蔡市長麻煩蔡市長蔡市長早我想我們今天我們本院司法委員會安排這個有關於刑法第兩百\n兩百八十六條第七十七條及兩百七十二條之一的這些修正案的審查我想這是展現說我們本院委員事實上大家對於民意的快速的回應當然在這段時間裡面包括剛剛所有的各每一個案子的提案說明過程大家都其實聽起來就是意見滿一致這是大家對於這個目前社會\n因為這個發生了這個這個具體的這個虐童案件所以讓讓這個民意認為應該要在這個我們的刑法的這個包括刑度上面應該有所調整那因此今天我們很快的有很多的委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案那也很快的我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來來進行審查了\n那剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度我聽起來是這樣就是說法務部完全沒有反對這個修法\n我完全同意這個委員修法的目的那我們只是說就法務部提供這個專業給委員去著參我們也沒有剛剛我再澄清一下我也沒有說這個是違憲因為可能司法院我從頭聽到尾啦你沒有說違憲我沒有說違憲我是說我們這一條如果結了286不給他假釋那殺人要不給他假釋\n三）委員\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會提出的草案他可能有一些必須斟酌的地方就是今天在審查最後我們必須要斟酌他的地方所以你剛才是一一的就該斟酌的點包括假釋的包括刑度的包括年齡的限制等等這些你都提那可能時間因為我怕說在太短的時間裡面你這樣子講會讓讓這個讓我再剪一下一分鐘就好我會給你時間啦市長\n這個是這樣子啦,我們這個當然對我來講每一次新聞只要看到虐童案我有時候連看都不敢看我們為人父母的人看到這種案件大家都非常心痛而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看它\n社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求甚至有連署要求這個這個劣童唯一死刑的連署也通過了連署的門檻這個這個我們都都都可以理解啦齁但是畢竟立法院不是PTT啦齁我們不是在這裡這立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的每一個齁這個這個今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑再來持有持有持有這個這個兒少色情影像唯一死刑酒駕唯一死刑\n全然後然後就就今天修這個明天修這個他唯一死刑之後這個刑法就全部變成唯一死刑那所以所以這個這個我們也就就要來今天審查我就希望說能夠探討這個部分當然部長我我會給給次長時間的齁就是說其實我看這個我們的修法大概只有好像只有一位委員還把把把他修修在這個殺人\n殺人罪的罪責 其他其實它這個是一個傷害罪是在傷害罪的罪章裏面 對不對這個兩百八十六條它是傷害罪的罪章裏面所以我們整個修法剛才市長在法案說明的時候提到你要整體的去做這個法益侵害輕重的這個橫平嘛 這個很重要啦 這個很重要好 這部分就請給市長時間感謝 非常感謝委員給我這個機會齁\n我會站在這個位置我們跟主席一樣主席在這不久之前還是以我們的簡作各位委員很可能在之前也不是剩下來就是立法委員我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久所以我要跟各位委員報告就是說法律定出去大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見他都會說這是立法委員定的\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．\n條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識說這個行為大家都不能接受然後突然把它弄成說這個比殺人還重市長現在我剛剛跟市長在探討的就是這樣子就是刑法裡面它不是單獨這一條法條嘛它是各個法條有不同的刑害不同的法律然後有一個衡量它的這個對社會危害對法律侵害的輕重你不能說對這個法律侵害重的結果它的刑處比較輕\n三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n最嚴重最嚴重也是你剛剛講的說丟臉而已的但是其實這個我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉或是說這個法律不平衡的問題我們更擔心的是說因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化這個會更嚴重例如說你說你說\n內同傷害致死唯一死刑,假設這樣子定,未來如果有內同人,小孩子受傷了要送醫院,我不敢送醫院啊,我送醫院萬一他死了我就唯一死刑啦,乾脆就把他埋掉算了。\n三）委員\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案�\n條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具\n這個年齡的標準限制他必須要有一個理由18歲是有一個法律理由你不是不能改所以剛剛我們司法院的我們副座一直講尊重大院的不是不能改大院可以改六歲可以改五歲為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用\n七歲就是一個意識能力行為能力的一個界限你不用你要改六歲你是不是不能改你的根據在哪裡你把它理由寫清楚我們不是不同意就是說我需要知道說突然行之有能的這樣的一個體制你要改它所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條大家在討論的時候我們希望法務部能夠在這個部分能夠講清楚我們法務部的立場跟看法好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.479 --> 00:39.372\n主席我們請蔡市長麻煩蔡市長蔡市長早我想我們今天我們本院司法委員會安排這個有關於刑法第兩百\n\n00:41.042 --> 01:08.177\n兩百八十六條第七十七條及兩百七十二條之一的這些修正案的審查我想這是展現說我們本院委員事實上大家對於民意的快速的回應當然在這段時間裡面包括剛剛所有的各每一個案子的提案說明過程大家都其實聽起來就是意見滿一致這是大家對於這個目前社會\n\n01:09.363 --> 01:35.054\n因為這個發生了這個這個具體的這個虐童案件所以讓讓這個民意認為應該要在這個我們的刑法的這個包括刑度上面應該有所調整那因此今天我們很快的有很多的委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案那也很快的我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來來進行審查了\n\n01:38.271 --> 01:52.432\n那剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度我聽起來是這樣就是說法務部完全沒有反對這個修法\n\n01:53.120 --> 02:16.821\n我完全同意這個委員修法的目的那我們只是說就法務部提供這個專業給委員去著參我們也沒有剛剛我再澄清一下我也沒有說這個是違憲因為可能司法院我從頭聽到尾啦你沒有說違憲我沒有說違憲我是說我們這一條如果結了286不給他假釋那殺人要不給他假釋\n\n02:17.481 --> 02:17.581\n三）委員\n\n02:42.509 --> 03:08.503\n立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會提出的草案他可能有一些必須斟酌的地方就是今天在審查最後我們必須要斟酌他的地方所以你剛才是一一的就該斟酌的點包括假釋的包括刑度的包括年齡的限制等等這些你都提那可能時間因為我怕說在太短的時間裡面你這樣子講會讓讓這個讓我再剪一下一分鐘就好我會給你時間啦市長\n\n03:12.966 --> 03:33.826\n這個是這樣子啦,我們這個當然對我來講每一次新聞只要看到虐童案我有時候連看都不敢看我們為人父母的人看到這種案件大家都非常心痛而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看它\n\n03:35.310 --> 04:04.249\n社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求甚至有連署要求這個這個劣童唯一死刑的連署也通過了連署的門檻這個這個我們都都都可以理解啦齁但是畢竟立法院不是PTT啦齁我們不是在這裡這立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的每一個齁這個這個今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑再來持有持有持有這個這個兒少色情影像唯一死刑酒駕唯一死刑\n\n04:05.129 --> 04:28.691\n全然後然後就就今天修這個明天修這個他唯一死刑之後這個刑法就全部變成唯一死刑那所以所以這個這個我們也就就要來今天審查我就希望說能夠探討這個部分當然部長我我會給給次長時間的齁就是說其實我看這個我們的修法大概只有好像只有一位委員還把把把他修修在這個殺人\n\n04:30.211 --> 04:54.996\n殺人罪的罪責其他其實它這個是一個傷害罪是在傷害罪的罪章裏面對不對這個兩百八十六條它是傷害罪的罪章裏面所以我們整個修法剛才市長在法案說明的時候提到你要整體的去做這個法益侵害輕重的這個橫平嘛這個很重要啦這個很重要好這部分就請給市長時間感謝非常感謝委員給我這個機會齁\n\n04:59.707 --> 05:27.538\n我會站在這個位置我們跟主席一樣主席在這不久之前還是以我們的簡作各位委員很可能在之前也不是剩下來就是立法委員我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久所以我要跟各位委員報告就是說法律定出去大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見他都會說這是立法委員定的\n\n05:28.692 --> 05:37.378\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．\n\n05:56.411 --> 06:11.120\n條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n06:26.656 --> 06:46.192\n你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識說這個行為大家都不能接受然後突然把它弄成說這個比殺人還重市長現在我剛剛跟市長在探討的就是這樣子就是刑法裡面它不是單獨這一條法條嘛它是各個法條有不同的刑害不同的法律然後有一個衡量它的這個對社會危害對法律侵害的輕重你不能說對這個法律侵害重的結果它的刑處比較輕\n\n06:55.900 --> 06:59.583\n三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n\n07:20.140 --> 07:34.598\n最嚴重最嚴重也是你剛剛講的說丟臉而已的但是其實這個我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉或是說這個法律不平衡的問題我們更擔心的是說因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化這個會更嚴重例如說你說你說\n\n07:37.902 --> 07:54.457\n內同傷害致死唯一死刑,假設這樣子定,未來如果有內同人,小孩子受傷了要送醫院,我不敢送醫院啊,我送醫院萬一他死了我就唯一死刑啦,乾脆就把他埋掉算了。\n\n07:55.222 --> 07:55.342\n三）委員\n\n08:13.567 --> 08:34.294\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案�\n\n08:40.896 --> 08:42.277\n條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具\n\n09:00.163 --> 09:19.014\n這個年齡的標準限制他必須要有一個理由18歲是有一個法律理由你不是不能改所以剛剛我們司法院的我們副座一直講尊重大院的不是不能改大院可以改六歲可以改五歲為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用\n\n09:20.356 --> 09:45.453\n七歲就是一個意識能力行為能力的一個界限你不用你要改六歲你是不是不能改你的根據在哪裡你把它理由寫清楚我們不是不同意就是說我需要知道說突然行之有能的這樣的一個體制你要改它所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條大家在討論的時候我們希望法務部能夠在這個部分能夠講清楚我們法務部的立場跟看法好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.479,"end":39.372,"text":"主席我們請蔡市長麻煩蔡市長蔡市長早我想我們今天我們本院司法委員會安排這個有關於刑法第兩百"},{"start":41.042,"end":68.177,"text":"兩百八十六條第七十七條及兩百七十二條之一的這些修正案的審查我想這是展現說我們本院委員事實上大家對於民意的快速的回應當然在這段時間裡面包括剛剛所有的各每一個案子的提案說明過程大家都其實聽起來就是意見滿一致這是大家對於這個目前社會"},{"start":69.363,"end":95.054,"text":"因為這個發生了這個這個具體的這個虐童案件所以讓讓這個民意認為應該要在這個我們的刑法的這個包括刑度上面應該有所調整那因此今天我們很快的有很多的委員在很短的時間內提出了修正案那也很快的我們的主席就在今天安排這樣子的會議來來進行審查了"},{"start":98.271,"end":112.432,"text":"那剛才有時間給次長在這裡先說明法務部對於修法的這些態度我聽起來是這樣就是說法務部完全沒有反對這個修法"},{"start":113.12,"end":136.821,"text":"我完全同意這個委員修法的目的那我們只是說就法務部提供這個專業給委員去著參我們也沒有剛剛我再澄清一下我也沒有說這個是違憲因為可能司法院我從頭聽到尾啦你沒有說違憲我沒有說違憲我是說我們這一條如果結了286不給他假釋那殺人要不給他假釋"},{"start":137.481,"end":137.581,"text":"三）委員"},{"start":162.509,"end":188.503,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會提出的草案他可能有一些必須斟酌的地方就是今天在審查最後我們必須要斟酌他的地方所以你剛才是一一的就該斟酌的點包括假釋的包括刑度的包括年齡的限制等等這些你都提那可能時間因為我怕說在太短的時間裡面你這樣子講會讓讓這個讓我再剪一下一分鐘就好我會給你時間啦市長"},{"start":192.966,"end":213.826,"text":"這個是這樣子啦,我們這個當然對我來講每一次新聞只要看到虐童案我有時候連看都不敢看我們為人父母的人看到這種案件大家都非常心痛而且真的是連新聞都不忍去看它"},{"start":215.31,"end":244.249,"text":"社會上面會有這樣子的呼聲跟要求甚至有連署要求這個這個劣童唯一死刑的連署也通過了連署的門檻這個這個我們都都都可以理解啦齁但是畢竟立法院不是PTT啦齁我們不是在這裡這立法院不是說我們大家喊爽的每一個齁這個這個今天哪一個案子發生我們就唯一死刑再來持有持有持有這個這個兒少色情影像唯一死刑酒駕唯一死刑"},{"start":245.129,"end":268.691,"text":"全然後然後就就今天修這個明天修這個他唯一死刑之後這個刑法就全部變成唯一死刑那所以所以這個這個我們也就就要來今天審查我就希望說能夠探討這個部分當然部長我我會給給次長時間的齁就是說其實我看這個我們的修法大概只有好像只有一位委員還把把把他修修在這個殺人"},{"start":270.211,"end":294.996,"text":"殺人罪的罪責 其他其實它這個是一個傷害罪是在傷害罪的罪章裏面 對不對這個兩百八十六條它是傷害罪的罪章裏面所以我們整個修法剛才市長在法案說明的時候提到你要整體的去做這個法益侵害輕重的這個橫平嘛 這個很重要啦 這個很重要好 這部分就請給市長時間感謝 非常感謝委員給我這個機會齁"},{"start":299.707,"end":327.538,"text":"我會站在這個位置我們跟主席一樣主席在這不久之前還是以我們的簡作各位委員很可能在之前也不是剩下來就是立法委員我個人很可能在這裡的時間也不會很久所以我要跟各位委員報告就是說法律定出去大家不會管說那是檢察官或是法務部或是司法院有什麼意見他都會說這是立法委員定的"},{"start":328.692,"end":337.378,"text":"刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．"},{"start":356.411,"end":371.12,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員"},{"start":386.656,"end":406.192,"text":"你不要說找到一些社會上大家都有共識說這個行為大家都不能接受然後突然把它弄成說這個比殺人還重市長現在我剛剛跟市長在探討的就是這樣子就是刑法裡面它不是單獨這一條法條嘛它是各個法條有不同的刑害不同的法律然後有一個衡量它的這個對社會危害對法律侵害的輕重你不能說對這個法律侵害重的結果它的刑處比較輕"},{"start":415.9,"end":419.583,"text":"三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具"},{"start":440.14,"end":454.598,"text":"最嚴重最嚴重也是你剛剛講的說丟臉而已的但是其實這個我們更擔心的不是丟臉不丟臉或是說這個法律不平衡的問題我們更擔心的是說因為這個立法導致犯罪行為的惡化這個會更嚴重例如說你說你說"},{"start":457.902,"end":474.457,"text":"內同傷害致死唯一死刑,假設這樣子定,未來如果有內同人,小孩子受傷了要送醫院,我不敢送醫院啊,我送醫院萬一他死了我就唯一死刑啦,乾脆就把他埋掉算了。"},{"start":475.222,"end":475.342,"text":"三）委員"},{"start":493.567,"end":514.294,"text":"刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案�"},{"start":520.896,"end":522.277,"text":"條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等19人擬具"},{"start":540.163,"end":559.014,"text":"這個年齡的標準限制他必須要有一個理由18歲是有一個法律理由你不是不能改所以剛剛我們司法院的我們副座一直講尊重大院的不是不能改大院可以改六歲可以改五歲為什麼行之有年的七歲你不用"},{"start":560.356,"end":585.453,"text":"七歲就是一個意識能力行為能力的一個界限你不用你要改六歲你是不是不能改你的根據在哪裡你把它理由寫清楚我們不是不同意就是說我需要知道說突然行之有能的這樣的一個體制你要改它所以這個部分等一下我們真的進入逐條大家在討論的時候我們希望法務部能夠在這個部分能夠講清楚我們法務部的立場跟看法好謝謝"}]}}}}