{"id":151226,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151226","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016279fa11751dd65deea8f48eb7d2985ecdbc5dab72e655c1c946e357ca2c70d75735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"09:52:45 - 09:59:49","影片長度":"00:07:04","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第五條及第六條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai 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399.52, \"end\": 402.222, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 402.222, \"end\": 403.182, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 403.182, \"end\": 403.322, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 403.322, \"end\": 403.382, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 403.382, \"end\": 403.582, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 403.582, \"end\": 403.722, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 403.722, \"end\": 403.863, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 403.863, \"end\": 403.883, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 403.883, \"end\": 403.903, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 420.658, \"end\": 420.819, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 420.819, \"end\": 420.919, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"盧\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 420.919, \"end\": 420.999, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 420.999, \"end\": 421.119, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 421.119, \"end\": 421.28, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 421.28, \"end\": 421.3, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,590 --> 00:00:02,814\n國家公園署和林業集市長保育署有請\n\n2\n00:00:15,627 --> 00:00:39,696\n副主委早安今天我們當然就討論這個山林的部分第一個部分第一個題目是這個原住民的禁伐補償條例那本期的主張是這樣我們的禁伐補償條例跟獎勵造林辦法當然應該要同步來做修正因為當初森林法就有規定林業用地不能跟其他用途使用那其實原民保留地中74%是林業用地其實有高度的一個重疊性\n\n3\n00:00:40,496 --> 00:00:52,018\n所以說換言之我們如果要這個進行這個保護國土環境保育這樣的一個政策目標的時候相對來講當然就犧牲原住民族的權益所以這件事情要妥善的來求取平衡\n\n4\n00:00:53,342 --> 00:01:18,307\n過去為了平衡經濟跟生活也讓政策可以推動所以推出了禁法補償跟照領獎勵兩種措施兩個制度互相配合但是這個任何的政策都有與時俱進的必要這段時間我們的照領補助從20年每公頃獎勵金60萬元提高到照領6年每公頃60萬元等於大概是增加了3倍的量因為本來20年領到變6年領到其實是差3倍的量\n\n5\n00:01:20,848 --> 00:01:25,150\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第12條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n6\n00:01:46,798 --> 00:01:48,099\n禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n7\n00:02:05,698 --> 00:02:19,567\n以及速度要加快,這個事情不能再拖,加上通貨膨脹,還有原住民主的公平正義,這些東西我想都構成了這一次修正原民禁法補償條例的這個正當性。」這個副主委到目前為止同意我的說法嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:20,772 --> 00:02:33,918\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。\n\n9\n00:02:49,525 --> 00:03:10,050\n現在全世界趨勢叫淨零碳排嘛那大家也都認知到說森林其實有碳稀存啊碳捕捉的這樣子複合式的一個功能所以換言之說未來的林地的價值是是有上升的空間跟可能性的嘛對不對那這件事情難道不應該被彰顯嗎這件事情難道不能構成政府未來的財源嗎其實是可以的嘛\n\n10\n00:03:10,490 --> 00:03:34,612\n未來我們環境部剛剛陸陸續續有碳費等等相關的機制上路之後其實林地的這個價值就會提升相對來講你對這個保護林地相對的這個財源跟預算他應該是會越來越充足的他也應該越來越充足啦所以我想財務壓力雖然政府有義務把它講出來但不構成就是說因為財務壓力所以我們要在修法的方面阻卻不淺啦所以我是還是希望\n\n11\n00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:52,030\n考量未來的碳稀存跟碳捕捉的技術還是要先做修正,也不用太擔心未來的財源。另外在這個場合我要特別提醒,既然有減碳政策,未來林業的價值可能會提升。我們除了講說你用觀光的角度來活化林業發展之外,\n\n12\n00:03:53,231 --> 00:04:15,153\n未來在這些碳吸存、碳捕捉這些技術他如何變成也許是一個商業化的模式也許他出現了一定的商業機制跟利潤的時候我們法條明定要跟原住民族共享可是我們的政府在溝通的過程中沒有辦法注意到這個原民族群跟一般的所謂的數位落差跟資訊的落差的時候那終究這個利潤是沒有辦法被共享的\n\n13\n00:04:15,433 --> 00:04:19,375\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n\n14\n00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:53,736\n政府要有設計機制尤其是原住民組委員會你要有一個機制確保原住民的好朋友可以優先知道可以第一時間的了解說這塊林業用地怎麼樣來做活用也來促進這個國家的這個淨林碳排量的工作這樣才能夠真正落實這個所謂的利潤共享好不好這個我先提醒在前那進今天的第二個題目換林務署跟國家公園署\n\n15\n00:04:55,575 --> 00:04:56,916\n三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n16\n00:05:17,526 --> 00:05:43,802\n這個我們近年都提倡所謂的無痕山林就希望說大家登山或者是觀光的時候不要把垃圾留在山林裡面可是我們看了法條之後發現很荒唐的事情我們根據廢棄物清理法第12條也就是我們在城市或者是在一般的地方亂丟垃圾的時候至少被人家倆包的時候大概就是罰1200塊以上可是後來我們看了一下這個罰款你在非國家公園的森林\n\n17\n00:05:44,682 --> 00:06:02,851\n如果亂丟垃圾的話法1000到6萬當然這個上限比較高可是下限也比較低更好笑的是國家公園的森林用地根據國家公園法第13條你亂丟垃圾的時候罰1000塊以下這是不是有失比例原則這個法條有沒有要檢討改進的空間你要不要回答一下\n\n18\n00:06:05,596 --> 00:06:17,465\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n\n19\n00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:43,903\n未來透過修法程序會就有關委員所關心的部分,會依照相關審議結果以後提高相關法則。\n\n20\n00:07:00,658 --> 00:07:01,300\n審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n590\t2814\t國家公園署和林業集市長保育署有請\n15627\t39696\t副主委早安今天我們當然就討論這個山林的部分第一個部分第一個題目是這個原住民的禁伐補償條例那本期的主張是這樣我們的禁伐補償條例跟獎勵造林辦法當然應該要同步來做修正因為當初森林法就有規定林業用地不能跟其他用途使用那其實原民保留地中74%是林業用地其實有高度的一個重疊性\n40496\t52018\t所以說換言之我們如果要這個進行這個保護國土環境保育這樣的一個政策目標的時候相對來講當然就犧牲原住民族的權益所以這件事情要妥善的來求取平衡\n53342\t78307\t過去為了平衡經濟跟生活也讓政策可以推動所以推出了禁法補償跟照領獎勵兩種措施兩個制度互相配合但是這個任何的政策都有與時俱進的必要這段時間我們的照領補助從20年每公頃獎勵金60萬元提高到照領6年每公頃60萬元等於大概是增加了3倍的量因為本來20年領到變6年領到其實是差3倍的量\n80848\t85150\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第12條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n106798\t108099\t禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n125698\t139567\t以及速度要加快,這個事情不能再拖,加上通貨膨脹,還有原住民主的公平正義,這些東西我想都構成了這一次修正原民禁法補償條例的這個正當性。」這個副主委到目前為止同意我的說法嗎?\n140772\t153918\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。\n169525\t190050\t現在全世界趨勢叫淨零碳排嘛那大家也都認知到說森林其實有碳稀存啊碳捕捉的這樣子複合式的一個功能所以換言之說未來的林地的價值是是有上升的空間跟可能性的嘛對不對那這件事情難道不應該被彰顯嗎這件事情難道不能構成政府未來的財源嗎其實是可以的嘛\n190490\t214612\t未來我們環境部剛剛陸陸續續有碳費等等相關的機制上路之後其實林地的這個價值就會提升相對來講你對這個保護林地相對的這個財源跟預算他應該是會越來越充足的他也應該越來越充足啦所以我想財務壓力雖然政府有義務把它講出來但不構成就是說因為財務壓力所以我們要在修法的方面阻卻不淺啦所以我是還是希望\n215433\t232030\t考量未來的碳稀存跟碳捕捉的技術還是要先做修正,也不用太擔心未來的財源。另外在這個場合我要特別提醒,既然有減碳政策,未來林業的價值可能會提升。我們除了講說你用觀光的角度來活化林業發展之外,\n233231\t255153\t未來在這些碳吸存、碳捕捉這些技術他如何變成也許是一個商業化的模式也許他出現了一定的商業機制跟利潤的時候我們法條明定要跟原住民族共享可是我們的政府在溝通的過程中沒有辦法注意到這個原民族群跟一般的所謂的數位落差跟資訊的落差的時候那終究這個利潤是沒有辦法被共享的\n255433\t259375\t立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n270640\t293736\t政府要有設計機制尤其是原住民組委員會你要有一個機制確保原住民的好朋友可以優先知道可以第一時間的了解說這塊林業用地怎麼樣來做活用也來促進這個國家的這個淨林碳排量的工作這樣才能夠真正落實這個所謂的利潤共享好不好這個我先提醒在前那進今天的第二個題目換林務署跟國家公園署\n295575\t296916\t三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n317526\t343802\t這個我們近年都提倡所謂的無痕山林就希望說大家登山或者是觀光的時候不要把垃圾留在山林裡面可是我們看了法條之後發現很荒唐的事情我們根據廢棄物清理法第12條也就是我們在城市或者是在一般的地方亂丟垃圾的時候至少被人家倆包的時候大概就是罰1200塊以上可是後來我們看了一下這個罰款你在非國家公園的森林\n344682\t362851\t如果亂丟垃圾的話法1000到6萬當然這個上限比較高可是下限也比較低更好笑的是國家公園的森林用地根據國家公園法第13條你亂丟垃圾的時候罰1000塊以下這是不是有失比例原則這個法條有沒有要檢討改進的空間你要不要回答一下\n365596\t377465\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n393036\t403903\t未來透過修法程序會就有關委員所關心的部分,會依照相關審議結果以後提高相關法則。\n420658\t421300\t審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具\n","txt":"國家公園署和林業集市長保育署有請\n副主委早安今天我們當然就討論這個山林的部分第一個部分第一個題目是這個原住民的禁伐補償條例那本期的主張是這樣我們的禁伐補償條例跟獎勵造林辦法當然應該要同步來做修正因為當初森林法就有規定林業用地不能跟其他用途使用那其實原民保留地中74%是林業用地其實有高度的一個重疊性\n所以說換言之我們如果要這個進行這個保護國土環境保育這樣的一個政策目標的時候相對來講當然就犧牲原住民族的權益所以這件事情要妥善的來求取平衡\n過去為了平衡經濟跟生活也讓政策可以推動所以推出了禁法補償跟照領獎勵兩種措施兩個制度互相配合但是這個任何的政策都有與時俱進的必要這段時間我們的照領補助從20年每公頃獎勵金60萬元提高到照領6年每公頃60萬元等於大概是增加了3倍的量因為本來20年領到變6年領到其實是差3倍的量\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第12條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n以及速度要加快,這個事情不能再拖,加上通貨膨脹,還有原住民主的公平正義,這些東西我想都構成了這一次修正原民禁法補償條例的這個正當性。」這個副主委到目前為止同意我的說法嗎?\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。\n現在全世界趨勢叫淨零碳排嘛那大家也都認知到說森林其實有碳稀存啊碳捕捉的這樣子複合式的一個功能所以換言之說未來的林地的價值是是有上升的空間跟可能性的嘛對不對那這件事情難道不應該被彰顯嗎這件事情難道不能構成政府未來的財源嗎其實是可以的嘛\n未來我們環境部剛剛陸陸續續有碳費等等相關的機制上路之後其實林地的這個價值就會提升相對來講你對這個保護林地相對的這個財源跟預算他應該是會越來越充足的他也應該越來越充足啦所以我想財務壓力雖然政府有義務把它講出來但不構成就是說因為財務壓力所以我們要在修法的方面阻卻不淺啦所以我是還是希望\n考量未來的碳稀存跟碳捕捉的技術還是要先做修正,也不用太擔心未來的財源。另外在這個場合我要特別提醒,既然有減碳政策,未來林業的價值可能會提升。我們除了講說你用觀光的角度來活化林業發展之外,\n未來在這些碳吸存、碳捕捉這些技術他如何變成也許是一個商業化的模式也許他出現了一定的商業機制跟利潤的時候我們法條明定要跟原住民族共享可是我們的政府在溝通的過程中沒有辦法注意到這個原民族群跟一般的所謂的數位落差跟資訊的落差的時候那終究這個利潤是沒有辦法被共享的\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n政府要有設計機制尤其是原住民組委員會你要有一個機制確保原住民的好朋友可以優先知道可以第一時間的了解說這塊林業用地怎麼樣來做活用也來促進這個國家的這個淨林碳排量的工作這樣才能夠真正落實這個所謂的利潤共享好不好這個我先提醒在前那進今天的第二個題目換林務署跟國家公園署\n三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n這個我們近年都提倡所謂的無痕山林就希望說大家登山或者是觀光的時候不要把垃圾留在山林裡面可是我們看了法條之後發現很荒唐的事情我們根據廢棄物清理法第12條也就是我們在城市或者是在一般的地方亂丟垃圾的時候至少被人家倆包的時候大概就是罰1200塊以上可是後來我們看了一下這個罰款你在非國家公園的森林\n如果亂丟垃圾的話法1000到6萬當然這個上限比較高可是下限也比較低更好笑的是國家公園的森林用地根據國家公園法第13條你亂丟垃圾的時候罰1000塊以下這是不是有失比例原則這個法條有沒有要檢討改進的空間你要不要回答一下\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n未來透過修法程序會就有關委員所關心的部分,會依照相關審議結果以後提高相關法則。\n審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.590 --> 00:02.814\n國家公園署和林業集市長保育署有請\n\n00:15.627 --> 00:39.696\n副主委早安今天我們當然就討論這個山林的部分第一個部分第一個題目是這個原住民的禁伐補償條例那本期的主張是這樣我們的禁伐補償條例跟獎勵造林辦法當然應該要同步來做修正因為當初森林法就有規定林業用地不能跟其他用途使用那其實原民保留地中74%是林業用地其實有高度的一個重疊性\n\n00:40.496 --> 00:52.018\n所以說換言之我們如果要這個進行這個保護國土環境保育這樣的一個政策目標的時候相對來講當然就犧牲原住民族的權益所以這件事情要妥善的來求取平衡\n\n00:53.342 --> 01:18.307\n過去為了平衡經濟跟生活也讓政策可以推動所以推出了禁法補償跟照領獎勵兩種措施兩個制度互相配合但是這個任何的政策都有與時俱進的必要這段時間我們的照領補助從20年每公頃獎勵金60萬元提高到照領6年每公頃60萬元等於大概是增加了3倍的量因為本來20年領到變6年領到其實是差3倍的量\n\n01:20.848 --> 01:25.150\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第12條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n01:46.798 --> 01:48.099\n禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n02:05.698 --> 02:19.567\n以及速度要加快,這個事情不能再拖,加上通貨膨脹,還有原住民主的公平正義,這些東西我想都構成了這一次修正原民禁法補償條例的這個正當性。」這個副主委到目前為止同意我的說法嗎?\n\n02:20.772 --> 02:33.918\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。\n\n02:49.525 --> 03:10.050\n現在全世界趨勢叫淨零碳排嘛那大家也都認知到說森林其實有碳稀存啊碳捕捉的這樣子複合式的一個功能所以換言之說未來的林地的價值是是有上升的空間跟可能性的嘛對不對那這件事情難道不應該被彰顯嗎這件事情難道不能構成政府未來的財源嗎其實是可以的嘛\n\n03:10.490 --> 03:34.612\n未來我們環境部剛剛陸陸續續有碳費等等相關的機制上路之後其實林地的這個價值就會提升相對來講你對這個保護林地相對的這個財源跟預算他應該是會越來越充足的他也應該越來越充足啦所以我想財務壓力雖然政府有義務把它講出來但不構成就是說因為財務壓力所以我們要在修法的方面阻卻不淺啦所以我是還是希望\n\n03:35.433 --> 03:52.030\n考量未來的碳稀存跟碳捕捉的技術還是要先做修正,也不用太擔心未來的財源。另外在這個場合我要特別提醒,既然有減碳政策,未來林業的價值可能會提升。我們除了講說你用觀光的角度來活化林業發展之外,\n\n03:53.231 --> 04:15.153\n未來在這些碳吸存、碳捕捉這些技術他如何變成也許是一個商業化的模式也許他出現了一定的商業機制跟利潤的時候我們法條明定要跟原住民族共享可是我們的政府在溝通的過程中沒有辦法注意到這個原民族群跟一般的所謂的數位落差跟資訊的落差的時候那終究這個利潤是沒有辦法被共享的\n\n04:15.433 --> 04:19.375\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n\n04:30.640 --> 04:53.736\n政府要有設計機制尤其是原住民組委員會你要有一個機制確保原住民的好朋友可以優先知道可以第一時間的了解說這塊林業用地怎麼樣來做活用也來促進這個國家的這個淨林碳排量的工作這樣才能夠真正落實這個所謂的利潤共享好不好這個我先提醒在前那進今天的第二個題目換林務署跟國家公園署\n\n04:55.575 --> 04:56.916\n三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n05:17.526 --> 05:43.802\n這個我們近年都提倡所謂的無痕山林就希望說大家登山或者是觀光的時候不要把垃圾留在山林裡面可是我們看了法條之後發現很荒唐的事情我們根據廢棄物清理法第12條也就是我們在城市或者是在一般的地方亂丟垃圾的時候至少被人家倆包的時候大概就是罰1200塊以上可是後來我們看了一下這個罰款你在非國家公園的森林\n\n05:44.682 --> 06:02.851\n如果亂丟垃圾的話法1000到6萬當然這個上限比較高可是下限也比較低更好笑的是國家公園的森林用地根據國家公園法第13條你亂丟垃圾的時候罰1000塊以下這是不是有失比例原則這個法條有沒有要檢討改進的空間你要不要回答一下\n\n06:05.596 --> 06:17.465\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。\n\n06:33.036 --> 06:43.903\n未來透過修法程序會就有關委員所關心的部分,會依照相關審議結果以後提高相關法則。\n\n07:00.658 --> 07:01.300\n審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.59,"end":2.814,"text":"國家公園署和林業集市長保育署有請"},{"start":15.627,"end":39.696,"text":"副主委早安今天我們當然就討論這個山林的部分第一個部分第一個題目是這個原住民的禁伐補償條例那本期的主張是這樣我們的禁伐補償條例跟獎勵造林辦法當然應該要同步來做修正因為當初森林法就有規定林業用地不能跟其他用途使用那其實原民保留地中74%是林業用地其實有高度的一個重疊性"},{"start":40.496,"end":52.018,"text":"所以說換言之我們如果要這個進行這個保護國土環境保育這樣的一個政策目標的時候相對來講當然就犧牲原住民族的權益所以這件事情要妥善的來求取平衡"},{"start":53.342,"end":78.307,"text":"過去為了平衡經濟跟生活也讓政策可以推動所以推出了禁法補償跟照領獎勵兩種措施兩個制度互相配合但是這個任何的政策都有與時俱進的必要這段時間我們的照領補助從20年每公頃獎勵金60萬元提高到照領6年每公頃60萬元等於大概是增加了3倍的量因為本來20年領到變6年領到其實是差3倍的量"},{"start":80.848,"end":85.15,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第12條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":106.798,"end":108.099,"text":"禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員"},{"start":125.698,"end":139.567,"text":"以及速度要加快,這個事情不能再拖,加上通貨膨脹,還有原住民主的公平正義,這些東西我想都構成了這一次修正原民禁法補償條例的這個正當性。」這個副主委到目前為止同意我的說法嗎?"},{"start":140.772,"end":153.918,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第12條條文修正草案。"},{"start":169.525,"end":190.05,"text":"現在全世界趨勢叫淨零碳排嘛那大家也都認知到說森林其實有碳稀存啊碳捕捉的這樣子複合式的一個功能所以換言之說未來的林地的價值是是有上升的空間跟可能性的嘛對不對那這件事情難道不應該被彰顯嗎這件事情難道不能構成政府未來的財源嗎其實是可以的嘛"},{"start":190.49,"end":214.612,"text":"未來我們環境部剛剛陸陸續續有碳費等等相關的機制上路之後其實林地的這個價值就會提升相對來講你對這個保護林地相對的這個財源跟預算他應該是會越來越充足的他也應該越來越充足啦所以我想財務壓力雖然政府有義務把它講出來但不構成就是說因為財務壓力所以我們要在修法的方面阻卻不淺啦所以我是還是希望"},{"start":215.433,"end":232.03,"text":"考量未來的碳稀存跟碳捕捉的技術還是要先做修正,也不用太擔心未來的財源。另外在這個場合我要特別提醒,既然有減碳政策,未來林業的價值可能會提升。我們除了講說你用觀光的角度來活化林業發展之外,"},{"start":233.231,"end":255.153,"text":"未來在這些碳吸存、碳捕捉這些技術他如何變成也許是一個商業化的模式也許他出現了一定的商業機制跟利潤的時候我們法條明定要跟原住民族共享可是我們的政府在溝通的過程中沒有辦法注意到這個原民族群跟一般的所謂的數位落差跟資訊的落差的時候那終究這個利潤是沒有辦法被共享的"},{"start":255.433,"end":259.375,"text":"立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。"},{"start":270.64,"end":293.736,"text":"政府要有設計機制尤其是原住民組委員會你要有一個機制確保原住民的好朋友可以優先知道可以第一時間的了解說這塊林業用地怎麼樣來做活用也來促進這個國家的這個淨林碳排量的工作這樣才能夠真正落實這個所謂的利潤共享好不好這個我先提醒在前那進今天的第二個題目換林務署跟國家公園署"},{"start":295.575,"end":296.916,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":317.526,"end":343.802,"text":"這個我們近年都提倡所謂的無痕山林就希望說大家登山或者是觀光的時候不要把垃圾留在山林裡面可是我們看了法條之後發現很荒唐的事情我們根據廢棄物清理法第12條也就是我們在城市或者是在一般的地方亂丟垃圾的時候至少被人家倆包的時候大概就是罰1200塊以上可是後來我們看了一下這個罰款你在非國家公園的森林"},{"start":344.682,"end":362.851,"text":"如果亂丟垃圾的話法1000到6萬當然這個上限比較高可是下限也比較低更好笑的是國家公園的森林用地根據國家公園法第13條你亂丟垃圾的時候罰1000塊以下這是不是有失比例原則這個法條有沒有要檢討改進的空間你要不要回答一下"},{"start":365.596,"end":377.465,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案。"},{"start":393.036,"end":403.903,"text":"未來透過修法程序會就有關委員所關心的部分,會依照相關審議結果以後提高相關法則。"},{"start":420.658,"end":421.3,"text":"審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具"}]}}}}