{"id":151229,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151229","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016272de291c09c23091d068d0b55d8f96a4ec5dab72e655c1c9499b491e425fd1a755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:58:19 - 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 784.992, \"end\": 785.012, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,086 --> 00:00:04,080\n謝謝主席主席有請邱國正邱部長請邱部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,652 --> 00:00:34,858\n林委員好部長早安剛剛我們是進行了機密的會議不過本期沒有在機密會議當中來做詢答的原因是因為我想機密的內容我們主要還是以了解為主那麼不過我希望透過一個公開的詢答表示我對國軍尤其是這一次我們在潛艦國造當中不論是國軍弟兄或者是這些工程設計師們\n\n3\n00:00:36,178 --> 00:01:04,034\n以及包括所有參與的這些廠商們的一個肯定也感謝因為這確實是一個艱難的任務那麼當然也謝謝部長在這段期間當中給予所有的這種壓力上面的承受不過就在今天我們要召開這個秘密會議之前那麼黃曙光他已經確認就是要請辭那麼我想詢問的是昨天晚上他發表了一個最新的聲明部長您有看到嗎\n\n4\n00:01:04,474 --> 00:01:22,213\n我今天早上有看到您今天早上看到了其實看到他的聲明我只是身為一個國會議員但是我也是一個普通的老百姓我是一個被保護者我想國人應該都跟我此刻現在心情一樣因為他寫到什麼他裡面寫到的讓我念一下他說\n\n5\n00:01:23,493 --> 00:01:47,730\n他其實不是因為個人的利益因為國家的利益在這之上那麼他認為現在的這些政治的算計導致他在這近七八年的時間承受了不實的指控以及嚴重詆毀跟攻擊意圖混淆民眾認知更無法忍受有心人士攻擊破壞\n\n6\n00:01:49,411 --> 00:02:07,180\n國防戰力的提升打擊詆毀國軍名譽跟士氣那麼他現在是因為他覺得個人身心俱疲與他人無關更沒有任何政治的因素部長您什麼時候知道他打算請辭\n\n7\n00:02:08,567 --> 00:02:23,839\n我是看到報紙,我聽到人家講說他請辭,今天早上看報紙就把那個詳細他發表聲明,我看一遍我才知道的。那我要跟委員報兩件事情,第一我很感謝委員對國防事務的支持、體諒。\n\n8\n00:02:26,661 --> 00:02:50,575\n我個人跟黃汝光先生我跟他好幾度的共識我要肯定他真的不管在做人做事方面都是相當負責禁止的但這一回他請辭了以後大家關切的這個團隊能不能夠繼續推動工作這種當然對於心理上的影響我有責任持續給他們鼓舞\n\n9\n00:02:51,175 --> 00:02:51,876\n其實現在有一些媒體對外臆測是因為說面對\n\n10\n00:03:12,898 --> 00:03:29,999\n在今天之前他所面對的他自己也寫了包括政治上面的包括名嘴上面對他的攻擊那麼包括今天的會議當中如果他沒有辭他如果站在這裡的時候他會不會成為一個被攻擊者\n\n11\n00:03:31,414 --> 00:03:55,247\n那所以部長您認為他此刻的請辭會不會是因為接下來可能還有更多的無端的攻擊你怎麼看我跟委員報告我不做預測但我其實講說我們軍人那麼久了以後的確確我們要面對很多現在環境裡面勢必的大家各自表述可能有些人並沒有經過查證而就講得出來\n\n12\n00:03:56,488 --> 00:04:17,051\n但這一點對於個人的確是有相當影響的所以黃國光先生他會有這種感覺我真的我可以體會但每個人他調整的方法不同但我不做臆測講他可能面對哪一種狀況他故意逃脫或者避開我不這樣認為\n\n13\n00:04:18,132 --> 00:04:43,491\n因為軍人在植物裡面那麼久啊很多困難都見過總是可以解決的但問題就是說假如說問題沒有講出來那不知道問題在哪裡這就比較困難我想我對他還是相當肯定而且我也一直很感激他對我們國軍的協助對海軍的重大專業的一個投入他幾乎是全程放在裡面\n\n14\n00:04:44,432 --> 00:05:06,946\n這是我跟委員報我跟他接觸以後啊我對他我個人的看法而且我相信很多海軍同仁也會有同樣的看法好所以說對於剛剛您有特別提到啦這個恐怕不只是黃曙光本人他的壓力很大參與其中的每一個面向的每一個單位都其實承受了同樣的大的壓力那麼您剛也講了不會影響到潛艦國造後續\n\n15\n00:05:09,554 --> 00:05:18,628\n的整個發展包括媒體先寫了有一個所謂的先進國防辦公室那麼您有知道目前潛艦小組會解編然後變成所謂的先進國防辦公室由他來接棒這樣的訊息嗎\n\n16\n00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,082\n好,但是呢,至少我們可以確認的是潛艦國造的整個騎乘會持續的前進。那麼其實現在有許多的媒體的資料\n\n17\n00:05:46,448 --> 00:06:01,616\n等一下我的詢問部長如果您認為是機密您可以事後再派同仁或是您再來跟我報告但是現在我現在所擷取的資料都是媒體已經曝光的那麼我們也可以來讓大眾瞭解一下到底這些資訊對或不對比如說剛剛的機密報告當中確實是講了目前現有的一些狀況期程以及預算的使用但是媒體在面對接下來的建造的另外的7艘\n\n18\n00:06:17,023 --> 00:06:19,985\n開始就在臆測了比如說媒體說了現在成本的第一台原型艦海昆號是312億然後以15年編列的期程接下來的7艘分別是3加2加2那他用一個所謂平均值來算怎麼會後面的7艘反而比較貴那這個時候你知道這種風氣帶起來就會說欸不是量產的應該比較便宜嗎\n\n19\n00:06:45,842 --> 00:06:45,862\n是﹗\n\n20\n00:07:05,106 --> 00:07:20,256\n那潛艦是這樣嗎那這樣的媒體標題對嗎包括七艘後訓軍架居然漲了28%哇聽起來大家就會覺得說欸好像這個錢沒有用在高頭上或是有什麼地方\n\n21\n00:07:21,477 --> 00:07:22,018\n似乎浪費掉了來部長\n\n22\n00:07:51,637 --> 00:08:19,808\n這不是現在錢跟以前比然後現在錢完全就在前線上這個數量除以7那就是這樣這樣的話是有欠公允的但我們當然我們盡量的讓社會大眾知道就好像講說一個孩子要長大以後不講說他以後將來做什麼事情可是他飯還在吃進去了這對於我們一點點溝通也很感謝委員給我們這個機會讓我們做說明\n\n23\n00:08:21,209 --> 00:08:48,922\n好因為身為立法委員我們必須說以我的專業來講的話那麼我會做一個媒體的監控那我比較擔憂的就是說在很多機密無法說的情況底下有人要來帶風向的時候那這對於整個潛艦的團隊也是一種打擊為什麼我開場會特別提到黃曙光的事件那確實也是這樣在不能說或者是在國家安全的時候所承受的壓力面是很大的那包括我就很\n\n24\n00:08:50,234 --> 00:09:18,814\n認同部長能講的部分把它講出來就像我們講的後面的這7艘還有其他除了造建之外的需求在裡頭那講到這個需求其實我們知道我剛剛特別講到的所受到的壓力方方面面不只是在檯面上主導計劃必須要承受壓力必須要承受那種被攻堅污衊的可能性但是在後面\n\n25\n00:09:20,011 --> 00:09:49,438\n但不論是工程師或者是供應商同樣面對一樣的壓力我看過一篇報導上面提到的就是很多的供應商會認為說提供給台灣那麼可能會受到接下來中國的制裁或中國的威脅那麼會變成是如果給台灣那不如就轉向賣給其他國家不要躺這個渾水那麼就部長來看我們其實希望的是接下來就像您在報告當中也特別提到的\n\n26\n00:09:49,858 --> 00:09:50,178\n：林楚茵\n\n27\n00:10:09,247 --> 00:10:29,978\n是不是可以有機會往上拉升那這個拉升的部分整體來說當在尋求合作對象的時候除了拉升之外那麼如何來因應他們在面對就是去中國化也就是避免中國勢力介入的部分有沒有一定的所謂的這種考核或者是審查\n\n28\n00:10:32,479 --> 00:10:59,912\n我跟委員報兩點,第一個從委員所講的所謂的顧慮,其他廠商的顧慮這是事實但我們都要依然要去克服這也就增加他們在執行上困難的地方但我相信我們專案團隊他這幾年的經驗也累積了也知道怎麼樣去應處以後再有困難他也比照這個方法我相信只要大家多溝通,成格以對的話都可以慢慢慢慢一點點解決,這是第一個第二個\n\n29\n00:11:00,552 --> 00:11:20,951\n他這個潛艦做了以後我們知道任何一項工業跟這有關的或原本這個工業技術在國內並不很成熟的因為這件事情給帶動他來向上提升所以我講說國機國造國艦國造他不是講說就把這個成品做出來\n\n30\n00:11:21,792 --> 00:11:23,612\n所以說剛剛提到的有關於中國在市場上對於我們潛艦設備供應的阻撓有嗎?那麼有克服嗎?\n\n31\n00:11:50,898 --> 00:12:05,603\n這是我們一直在執行當中的事情,我們也不便講太明白,但是我們就把當作在工作進度當中會遇到可能的狀況以及已經發生的某些事實,我們來做一個處理。\n\n32\n00:12:06,863 --> 00:12:07,103\n報告委員\n\n33\n00:12:35,506 --> 00:12:45,327\n50是臺灣董事長的目標我們會努力朝這個方向前進因為提高自治率本來就是國防自主最重要的一個精神我們會去做\n\n34\n00:12:46,156 --> 00:13:05,012\n我們希望包括所有的這些同仁們即使在面對強大的壓力底下這個我相信全民都會是大家的後盾因為這個是大家其實唯以依賴我們國家可以安全走下去非常重要的一個部分謝謝委員也謝謝你們支持我會持續努力謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1086\t4080\t謝謝主席主席有請邱國正邱部長請邱部長\n13652\t34858\t林委員好部長早安剛剛我們是進行了機密的會議不過本期沒有在機密會議當中來做詢答的原因是因為我想機密的內容我們主要還是以了解為主那麼不過我希望透過一個公開的詢答表示我對國軍尤其是這一次我們在潛艦國造當中不論是國軍弟兄或者是這些工程設計師們\n36178\t64034\t以及包括所有參與的這些廠商們的一個肯定也感謝因為這確實是一個艱難的任務那麼當然也謝謝部長在這段期間當中給予所有的這種壓力上面的承受不過就在今天我們要召開這個秘密會議之前那麼黃曙光他已經確認就是要請辭那麼我想詢問的是昨天晚上他發表了一個最新的聲明部長您有看到嗎\n64474\t82213\t我今天早上有看到您今天早上看到了其實看到他的聲明我只是身為一個國會議員但是我也是一個普通的老百姓我是一個被保護者我想國人應該都跟我此刻現在心情一樣因為他寫到什麼他裡面寫到的讓我念一下他說\n83493\t107730\t他其實不是因為個人的利益因為國家的利益在這之上那麼他認為現在的這些政治的算計導致他在這近七八年的時間承受了不實的指控以及嚴重詆毀跟攻擊意圖混淆民眾認知更無法忍受有心人士攻擊破壞\n109411\t127180\t國防戰力的提升打擊詆毀國軍名譽跟士氣那麼他現在是因為他覺得個人身心俱疲與他人無關更沒有任何政治的因素部長您什麼時候知道他打算請辭\n128567\t143839\t我是看到報紙,我聽到人家講說他請辭,今天早上看報紙就把那個詳細他發表聲明,我看一遍我才知道的。那我要跟委員報兩件事情,第一我很感謝委員對國防事務的支持、體諒。\n146661\t170575\t我個人跟黃汝光先生我跟他好幾度的共識我要肯定他真的不管在做人做事方面都是相當負責禁止的但這一回他請辭了以後大家關切的這個團隊能不能夠繼續推動工作這種當然對於心理上的影響我有責任持續給他們鼓舞\n171175\t171876\t其實現在有一些媒體對外臆測是因為說面對\n192898\t209999\t在今天之前他所面對的他自己也寫了包括政治上面的包括名嘴上面對他的攻擊那麼包括今天的會議當中如果他沒有辭他如果站在這裡的時候他會不會成為一個被攻擊者\n211414\t235247\t那所以部長您認為他此刻的請辭會不會是因為接下來可能還有更多的無端的攻擊你怎麼看我跟委員報告我不做預測但我其實講說我們軍人那麼久了以後的確確我們要面對很多現在環境裡面勢必的大家各自表述可能有些人並沒有經過查證而就講得出來\n236488\t257051\t但這一點對於個人 的確是有相當影響的所以黃國光先生他會有這種感覺我真的我可以體會但每個人他調整的方法不同但我不做臆測講他可能面對哪一種狀況他故意逃脫或者避開我不這樣認為\n258132\t283491\t因為軍人在植物裡面那麼久啊很多困難都見過總是可以解決的但問題就是說假如說問題沒有講出來那不知道問題在哪裡這就比較困難我想我對他還是相當肯定而且我也一直很感激他對我們國軍的協助對海軍的重大專業的一個投入他幾乎是全程放在裡面\n284432\t306946\t這是我跟委員報我跟他接觸以後啊我對他我個人的看法而且我相信很多海軍同仁也會有同樣的看法好所以說對於剛剛您有特別提到啦這個恐怕不只是黃曙光本人他的壓力很大參與其中的每一個面向的每一個單位都其實承受了同樣的大的壓力那麼您剛也講了不會影響到潛艦國造後續\n309554\t318628\t的整個發展包括媒體先寫了有一個所謂的先進國防辦公室那麼您有知道目前潛艦小組會解編然後變成所謂的先進國防辦公室由他來接棒這樣的訊息嗎\n325520\t329082\t好,但是呢,至少我們可以確認的是潛艦國造的整個騎乘會持續的前進。那麼其實現在有許多的媒體的資料\n346448\t361616\t等一下我的詢問部長如果您認為是機密您可以事後再派同仁或是您再來跟我報告但是現在我現在所擷取的資料都是媒體已經曝光的那麼我們也可以來讓大眾瞭解一下到底這些資訊對或不對比如說剛剛的機密報告當中確實是講了目前現有的一些狀況期程以及預算的使用但是媒體在面對接下來的建造的另外的7艘\n377023\t379985\t開始就在臆測了比如說媒體說了現在成本的第一台原型艦海昆號是312億然後以15年編列的期程接下來的7艘分別是3加2加2那他用一個所謂平均值來算怎麼會後面的7艘反而比較貴那這個時候你知道這種風氣帶起來就會說欸不是量產的應該比較便宜嗎\n405842\t405862\t是﹗\n425106\t440256\t那潛艦是這樣嗎那這樣的媒體標題對嗎包括七艘後訓軍架居然漲了28%哇聽起來大家就會覺得說欸好像這個錢沒有用在高頭上或是有什麼地方\n441477\t442018\t似乎浪費掉了來部長\n471637\t499808\t這不是現在錢跟以前比然後現在錢完全就在前線上這個數量除以7那就是這樣這樣的話是有欠公允的但我們當然我們盡量的讓社會大眾知道就好像講說一個孩子要長大以後不講說他以後將來做什麼事情可是他飯還在吃進去了這對於我們一點點溝通也很感謝委員給我們這個機會讓我們做說明\n501209\t528922\t好因為身為立法委員我們必須說以我的專業來講的話那麼我會做一個媒體的監控那我比較擔憂的就是說在很多機密無法說的情況底下有人要來帶風向的時候那這對於整個潛艦的團隊也是一種打擊為什麼我開場會特別提到黃曙光的事件那確實也是這樣在不能說或者是在國家安全的時候所承受的壓力面是很大的那包括我就很\n530234\t558814\t認同部長能講的部分把它講出來就像我們講的後面的這7艘還有其他除了造建之外的需求在裡頭那講到這個需求其實我們知道我剛剛特別講到的所受到的壓力方方面面不只是在檯面上主導計劃必須要承受壓力必須要承受那種被攻堅污衊的可能性但是在後面\n560011\t589438\t但不論是工程師或者是供應商同樣面對一樣的壓力我看過一篇報導上面提到的就是很多的供應商會認為說提供給台灣那麼可能會受到接下來中國的制裁或中國的威脅那麼會變成是如果給台灣那不如就轉向賣給其他國家不要躺這個渾水那麼就部長來看我們其實希望的是接下來就像您在報告當中也特別提到的\n589858\t590178\t：林楚茵\n609247\t629978\t是不是可以有機會往上拉升那這個拉升的部分整體來說當在尋求合作對象的時候除了拉升之外那麼如何來因應他們在面對就是去中國化也就是避免中國勢力介入的部分有沒有一定的所謂的這種考核或者是審查\n632479\t659912\t我跟委員報兩點,第一個從委員所講的所謂的顧慮,其他廠商的顧慮這是事實但我們都要依然要去克服這也就增加他們在執行上困難的地方但我相信我們專案團隊他這幾年的經驗也累積了也知道怎麼樣去應處以後再有困難他也比照這個方法我相信只要大家多溝通,成格以對的話都可以慢慢慢慢一點點解決,這是第一個第二個\n660552\t680951\t他這個潛艦做了以後我們知道任何一項工業跟這有關的或原本這個工業技術在國內並不很成熟的因為這件事情給帶動他來向上提升所以我講說國機國造國艦國造他不是講說就把這個成品做出來\n681792\t683612\t所以說剛剛提到的有關於中國在市場上對於我們潛艦設備供應的阻撓有嗎?那麼有克服嗎?\n710898\t725603\t這是我們一直在執行當中的事情,我們也不便講太明白,但是我們就把當作在工作進度當中會遇到可能的狀況以及已經發生的某些事實,我們來做一個處理。\n726863\t727103\t報告委員\n755506\t765327\t50是臺灣董事長的目標我們會努力朝這個方向前進因為提高自治率本來就是國防自主最重要的一個精神我們會去做\n766156\t785012\t我們希望包括所有的這些同仁們即使在面對強大的壓力底下這個我相信全民都會是大家的後盾因為這個是大家其實唯以依賴我們國家可以安全走下去非常重要的一個部分謝謝委員也謝謝你們支持我會持續努力謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請邱國正邱部長請邱部長\n林委員好部長早安剛剛我們是進行了機密的會議不過本期沒有在機密會議當中來做詢答的原因是因為我想機密的內容我們主要還是以了解為主那麼不過我希望透過一個公開的詢答表示我對國軍尤其是這一次我們在潛艦國造當中不論是國軍弟兄或者是這些工程設計師們\n以及包括所有參與的這些廠商們的一個肯定也感謝因為這確實是一個艱難的任務那麼當然也謝謝部長在這段期間當中給予所有的這種壓力上面的承受不過就在今天我們要召開這個秘密會議之前那麼黃曙光他已經確認就是要請辭那麼我想詢問的是昨天晚上他發表了一個最新的聲明部長您有看到嗎\n我今天早上有看到您今天早上看到了其實看到他的聲明我只是身為一個國會議員但是我也是一個普通的老百姓我是一個被保護者我想國人應該都跟我此刻現在心情一樣因為他寫到什麼他裡面寫到的讓我念一下他說\n他其實不是因為個人的利益因為國家的利益在這之上那麼他認為現在的這些政治的算計導致他在這近七八年的時間承受了不實的指控以及嚴重詆毀跟攻擊意圖混淆民眾認知更無法忍受有心人士攻擊破壞\n國防戰力的提升打擊詆毀國軍名譽跟士氣那麼他現在是因為他覺得個人身心俱疲與他人無關更沒有任何政治的因素部長您什麼時候知道他打算請辭\n我是看到報紙,我聽到人家講說他請辭,今天早上看報紙就把那個詳細他發表聲明,我看一遍我才知道的。那我要跟委員報兩件事情,第一我很感謝委員對國防事務的支持、體諒。\n我個人跟黃汝光先生我跟他好幾度的共識我要肯定他真的不管在做人做事方面都是相當負責禁止的但這一回他請辭了以後大家關切的這個團隊能不能夠繼續推動工作這種當然對於心理上的影響我有責任持續給他們鼓舞\n其實現在有一些媒體對外臆測是因為說面對\n在今天之前他所面對的他自己也寫了包括政治上面的包括名嘴上面對他的攻擊那麼包括今天的會議當中如果他沒有辭他如果站在這裡的時候他會不會成為一個被攻擊者\n那所以部長您認為他此刻的請辭會不會是因為接下來可能還有更多的無端的攻擊你怎麼看我跟委員報告我不做預測但我其實講說我們軍人那麼久了以後的確確我們要面對很多現在環境裡面勢必的大家各自表述可能有些人並沒有經過查證而就講得出來\n但這一點對於個人 的確是有相當影響的所以黃國光先生他會有這種感覺我真的我可以體會但每個人他調整的方法不同但我不做臆測講他可能面對哪一種狀況他故意逃脫或者避開我不這樣認為\n因為軍人在植物裡面那麼久啊很多困難都見過總是可以解決的但問題就是說假如說問題沒有講出來那不知道問題在哪裡這就比較困難我想我對他還是相當肯定而且我也一直很感激他對我們國軍的協助對海軍的重大專業的一個投入他幾乎是全程放在裡面\n這是我跟委員報我跟他接觸以後啊我對他我個人的看法而且我相信很多海軍同仁也會有同樣的看法好所以說對於剛剛您有特別提到啦這個恐怕不只是黃曙光本人他的壓力很大參與其中的每一個面向的每一個單位都其實承受了同樣的大的壓力那麼您剛也講了不會影響到潛艦國造後續\n的整個發展包括媒體先寫了有一個所謂的先進國防辦公室那麼您有知道目前潛艦小組會解編然後變成所謂的先進國防辦公室由他來接棒這樣的訊息嗎\n好,但是呢,至少我們可以確認的是潛艦國造的整個騎乘會持續的前進。那麼其實現在有許多的媒體的資料\n等一下我的詢問部長如果您認為是機密您可以事後再派同仁或是您再來跟我報告但是現在我現在所擷取的資料都是媒體已經曝光的那麼我們也可以來讓大眾瞭解一下到底這些資訊對或不對比如說剛剛的機密報告當中確實是講了目前現有的一些狀況期程以及預算的使用但是媒體在面對接下來的建造的另外的7艘\n開始就在臆測了比如說媒體說了現在成本的第一台原型艦海昆號是312億然後以15年編列的期程接下來的7艘分別是3加2加2那他用一個所謂平均值來算怎麼會後面的7艘反而比較貴那這個時候你知道這種風氣帶起來就會說欸不是量產的應該比較便宜嗎\n是﹗\n那潛艦是這樣嗎那這樣的媒體標題對嗎包括七艘後訓軍架居然漲了28%哇聽起來大家就會覺得說欸好像這個錢沒有用在高頭上或是有什麼地方\n似乎浪費掉了來部長\n這不是現在錢跟以前比然後現在錢完全就在前線上這個數量除以7那就是這樣這樣的話是有欠公允的但我們當然我們盡量的讓社會大眾知道就好像講說一個孩子要長大以後不講說他以後將來做什麼事情可是他飯還在吃進去了這對於我們一點點溝通也很感謝委員給我們這個機會讓我們做說明\n好因為身為立法委員我們必須說以我的專業來講的話那麼我會做一個媒體的監控那我比較擔憂的就是說在很多機密無法說的情況底下有人要來帶風向的時候那這對於整個潛艦的團隊也是一種打擊為什麼我開場會特別提到黃曙光的事件那確實也是這樣在不能說或者是在國家安全的時候所承受的壓力面是很大的那包括我就很\n認同部長能講的部分把它講出來就像我們講的後面的這7艘還有其他除了造建之外的需求在裡頭那講到這個需求其實我們知道我剛剛特別講到的所受到的壓力方方面面不只是在檯面上主導計劃必須要承受壓力必須要承受那種被攻堅污衊的可能性但是在後面\n但不論是工程師或者是供應商同樣面對一樣的壓力我看過一篇報導上面提到的就是很多的供應商會認為說提供給台灣那麼可能會受到接下來中國的制裁或中國的威脅那麼會變成是如果給台灣那不如就轉向賣給其他國家不要躺這個渾水那麼就部長來看我們其實希望的是接下來就像您在報告當中也特別提到的\n：林楚茵\n是不是可以有機會往上拉升那這個拉升的部分整體來說當在尋求合作對象的時候除了拉升之外那麼如何來因應他們在面對就是去中國化也就是避免中國勢力介入的部分有沒有一定的所謂的這種考核或者是審查\n我跟委員報兩點,第一個從委員所講的所謂的顧慮,其他廠商的顧慮這是事實但我們都要依然要去克服這也就增加他們在執行上困難的地方但我相信我們專案團隊他這幾年的經驗也累積了也知道怎麼樣去應處以後再有困難他也比照這個方法我相信只要大家多溝通,成格以對的話都可以慢慢慢慢一點點解決,這是第一個第二個\n他這個潛艦做了以後我們知道任何一項工業跟這有關的或原本這個工業技術在國內並不很成熟的因為這件事情給帶動他來向上提升所以我講說國機國造國艦國造他不是講說就把這個成品做出來\n所以說剛剛提到的有關於中國在市場上對於我們潛艦設備供應的阻撓有嗎?那麼有克服嗎?\n這是我們一直在執行當中的事情,我們也不便講太明白,但是我們就把當作在工作進度當中會遇到可能的狀況以及已經發生的某些事實,我們來做一個處理。\n報告委員\n50是臺灣董事長的目標我們會努力朝這個方向前進因為提高自治率本來就是國防自主最重要的一個精神我們會去做\n我們希望包括所有的這些同仁們即使在面對強大的壓力底下這個我相信全民都會是大家的後盾因為這個是大家其實唯以依賴我們國家可以安全走下去非常重要的一個部分謝謝委員也謝謝你們支持我會持續努力謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.086 --> 00:04.080\n謝謝主席主席有請邱國正邱部長請邱部長\n\n00:13.652 --> 00:34.858\n林委員好部長早安剛剛我們是進行了機密的會議不過本期沒有在機密會議當中來做詢答的原因是因為我想機密的內容我們主要還是以了解為主那麼不過我希望透過一個公開的詢答表示我對國軍尤其是這一次我們在潛艦國造當中不論是國軍弟兄或者是這些工程設計師們\n\n00:36.178 --> 01:04.034\n以及包括所有參與的這些廠商們的一個肯定也感謝因為這確實是一個艱難的任務那麼當然也謝謝部長在這段期間當中給予所有的這種壓力上面的承受不過就在今天我們要召開這個秘密會議之前那麼黃曙光他已經確認就是要請辭那麼我想詢問的是昨天晚上他發表了一個最新的聲明部長您有看到嗎\n\n01:04.474 --> 01:22.213\n我今天早上有看到您今天早上看到了其實看到他的聲明我只是身為一個國會議員但是我也是一個普通的老百姓我是一個被保護者我想國人應該都跟我此刻現在心情一樣因為他寫到什麼他裡面寫到的讓我念一下他說\n\n01:23.493 --> 01:47.730\n他其實不是因為個人的利益因為國家的利益在這之上那麼他認為現在的這些政治的算計導致他在這近七八年的時間承受了不實的指控以及嚴重詆毀跟攻擊意圖混淆民眾認知更無法忍受有心人士攻擊破壞\n\n01:49.411 --> 02:07.180\n國防戰力的提升打擊詆毀國軍名譽跟士氣那麼他現在是因為他覺得個人身心俱疲與他人無關更沒有任何政治的因素部長您什麼時候知道他打算請辭\n\n02:08.567 --> 02:23.839\n我是看到報紙,我聽到人家講說他請辭,今天早上看報紙就把那個詳細他發表聲明,我看一遍我才知道的。那我要跟委員報兩件事情,第一我很感謝委員對國防事務的支持、體諒。\n\n02:26.661 --> 02:50.575\n我個人跟黃汝光先生我跟他好幾度的共識我要肯定他真的不管在做人做事方面都是相當負責禁止的但這一回他請辭了以後大家關切的這個團隊能不能夠繼續推動工作這種當然對於心理上的影響我有責任持續給他們鼓舞\n\n02:51.175 --> 02:51.876\n其實現在有一些媒體對外臆測是因為說面對\n\n03:12.898 --> 03:29.999\n在今天之前他所面對的他自己也寫了包括政治上面的包括名嘴上面對他的攻擊那麼包括今天的會議當中如果他沒有辭他如果站在這裡的時候他會不會成為一個被攻擊者\n\n03:31.414 --> 03:55.247\n那所以部長您認為他此刻的請辭會不會是因為接下來可能還有更多的無端的攻擊你怎麼看我跟委員報告我不做預測但我其實講說我們軍人那麼久了以後的確確我們要面對很多現在環境裡面勢必的大家各自表述可能有些人並沒有經過查證而就講得出來\n\n03:56.488 --> 04:17.051\n但這一點對於個人的確是有相當影響的所以黃國光先生他會有這種感覺我真的我可以體會但每個人他調整的方法不同但我不做臆測講他可能面對哪一種狀況他故意逃脫或者避開我不這樣認為\n\n04:18.132 --> 04:43.491\n因為軍人在植物裡面那麼久啊很多困難都見過總是可以解決的但問題就是說假如說問題沒有講出來那不知道問題在哪裡這就比較困難我想我對他還是相當肯定而且我也一直很感激他對我們國軍的協助對海軍的重大專業的一個投入他幾乎是全程放在裡面\n\n04:44.432 --> 05:06.946\n這是我跟委員報我跟他接觸以後啊我對他我個人的看法而且我相信很多海軍同仁也會有同樣的看法好所以說對於剛剛您有特別提到啦這個恐怕不只是黃曙光本人他的壓力很大參與其中的每一個面向的每一個單位都其實承受了同樣的大的壓力那麼您剛也講了不會影響到潛艦國造後續\n\n05:09.554 --> 05:18.628\n的整個發展包括媒體先寫了有一個所謂的先進國防辦公室那麼您有知道目前潛艦小組會解編然後變成所謂的先進國防辦公室由他來接棒這樣的訊息嗎\n\n05:25.520 --> 05:29.082\n好,但是呢,至少我們可以確認的是潛艦國造的整個騎乘會持續的前進。那麼其實現在有許多的媒體的資料\n\n05:46.448 --> 06:01.616\n等一下我的詢問部長如果您認為是機密您可以事後再派同仁或是您再來跟我報告但是現在我現在所擷取的資料都是媒體已經曝光的那麼我們也可以來讓大眾瞭解一下到底這些資訊對或不對比如說剛剛的機密報告當中確實是講了目前現有的一些狀況期程以及預算的使用但是媒體在面對接下來的建造的另外的7艘\n\n06:17.023 --> 06:19.985\n開始就在臆測了比如說媒體說了現在成本的第一台原型艦海昆號是312億然後以15年編列的期程接下來的7艘分別是3加2加2那他用一個所謂平均值來算怎麼會後面的7艘反而比較貴那這個時候你知道這種風氣帶起來就會說欸不是量產的應該比較便宜嗎\n\n06:45.842 --> 06:45.862\n是﹗\n\n07:05.106 --> 07:20.256\n那潛艦是這樣嗎那這樣的媒體標題對嗎包括七艘後訓軍架居然漲了28%哇聽起來大家就會覺得說欸好像這個錢沒有用在高頭上或是有什麼地方\n\n07:21.477 --> 07:22.018\n似乎浪費掉了來部長\n\n07:51.637 --> 08:19.808\n這不是現在錢跟以前比然後現在錢完全就在前線上這個數量除以7那就是這樣這樣的話是有欠公允的但我們當然我們盡量的讓社會大眾知道就好像講說一個孩子要長大以後不講說他以後將來做什麼事情可是他飯還在吃進去了這對於我們一點點溝通也很感謝委員給我們這個機會讓我們做說明\n\n08:21.209 --> 08:48.922\n好因為身為立法委員我們必須說以我的專業來講的話那麼我會做一個媒體的監控那我比較擔憂的就是說在很多機密無法說的情況底下有人要來帶風向的時候那這對於整個潛艦的團隊也是一種打擊為什麼我開場會特別提到黃曙光的事件那確實也是這樣在不能說或者是在國家安全的時候所承受的壓力面是很大的那包括我就很\n\n08:50.234 --> 09:18.814\n認同部長能講的部分把它講出來就像我們講的後面的這7艘還有其他除了造建之外的需求在裡頭那講到這個需求其實我們知道我剛剛特別講到的所受到的壓力方方面面不只是在檯面上主導計劃必須要承受壓力必須要承受那種被攻堅污衊的可能性但是在後面\n\n09:20.011 --> 09:49.438\n但不論是工程師或者是供應商同樣面對一樣的壓力我看過一篇報導上面提到的就是很多的供應商會認為說提供給台灣那麼可能會受到接下來中國的制裁或中國的威脅那麼會變成是如果給台灣那不如就轉向賣給其他國家不要躺這個渾水那麼就部長來看我們其實希望的是接下來就像您在報告當中也特別提到的\n\n09:49.858 --> 09:50.178\n：林楚茵\n\n10:09.247 --> 10:29.978\n是不是可以有機會往上拉升那這個拉升的部分整體來說當在尋求合作對象的時候除了拉升之外那麼如何來因應他們在面對就是去中國化也就是避免中國勢力介入的部分有沒有一定的所謂的這種考核或者是審查\n\n10:32.479 --> 10:59.912\n我跟委員報兩點,第一個從委員所講的所謂的顧慮,其他廠商的顧慮這是事實但我們都要依然要去克服這也就增加他們在執行上困難的地方但我相信我們專案團隊他這幾年的經驗也累積了也知道怎麼樣去應處以後再有困難他也比照這個方法我相信只要大家多溝通,成格以對的話都可以慢慢慢慢一點點解決,這是第一個第二個\n\n11:00.552 --> 11:20.951\n他這個潛艦做了以後我們知道任何一項工業跟這有關的或原本這個工業技術在國內並不很成熟的因為這件事情給帶動他來向上提升所以我講說國機國造國艦國造他不是講說就把這個成品做出來\n\n11:21.792 --> 11:23.612\n所以說剛剛提到的有關於中國在市場上對於我們潛艦設備供應的阻撓有嗎?那麼有克服嗎?\n\n11:50.898 --> 12:05.603\n這是我們一直在執行當中的事情,我們也不便講太明白,但是我們就把當作在工作進度當中會遇到可能的狀況以及已經發生的某些事實,我們來做一個處理。\n\n12:06.863 --> 12:07.103\n報告委員\n\n12:35.506 --> 12:45.327\n50是臺灣董事長的目標我們會努力朝這個方向前進因為提高自治率本來就是國防自主最重要的一個精神我們會去做\n\n12:46.156 --> 13:05.012\n我們希望包括所有的這些同仁們即使在面對強大的壓力底下這個我相信全民都會是大家的後盾因為這個是大家其實唯以依賴我們國家可以安全走下去非常重要的一個部分謝謝委員也謝謝你們支持我會持續努力謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.086,"end":4.08,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請邱國正邱部長請邱部長"},{"start":13.652,"end":34.858,"text":"林委員好部長早安剛剛我們是進行了機密的會議不過本期沒有在機密會議當中來做詢答的原因是因為我想機密的內容我們主要還是以了解為主那麼不過我希望透過一個公開的詢答表示我對國軍尤其是這一次我們在潛艦國造當中不論是國軍弟兄或者是這些工程設計師們"},{"start":36.178,"end":64.034,"text":"以及包括所有參與的這些廠商們的一個肯定也感謝因為這確實是一個艱難的任務那麼當然也謝謝部長在這段期間當中給予所有的這種壓力上面的承受不過就在今天我們要召開這個秘密會議之前那麼黃曙光他已經確認就是要請辭那麼我想詢問的是昨天晚上他發表了一個最新的聲明部長您有看到嗎"},{"start":64.474,"end":82.213,"text":"我今天早上有看到您今天早上看到了其實看到他的聲明我只是身為一個國會議員但是我也是一個普通的老百姓我是一個被保護者我想國人應該都跟我此刻現在心情一樣因為他寫到什麼他裡面寫到的讓我念一下他說"},{"start":83.493,"end":107.73,"text":"他其實不是因為個人的利益因為國家的利益在這之上那麼他認為現在的這些政治的算計導致他在這近七八年的時間承受了不實的指控以及嚴重詆毀跟攻擊意圖混淆民眾認知更無法忍受有心人士攻擊破壞"},{"start":109.411,"end":127.18,"text":"國防戰力的提升打擊詆毀國軍名譽跟士氣那麼他現在是因為他覺得個人身心俱疲與他人無關更沒有任何政治的因素部長您什麼時候知道他打算請辭"},{"start":128.567,"end":143.839,"text":"我是看到報紙,我聽到人家講說他請辭,今天早上看報紙就把那個詳細他發表聲明,我看一遍我才知道的。那我要跟委員報兩件事情,第一我很感謝委員對國防事務的支持、體諒。"},{"start":146.661,"end":170.575,"text":"我個人跟黃汝光先生我跟他好幾度的共識我要肯定他真的不管在做人做事方面都是相當負責禁止的但這一回他請辭了以後大家關切的這個團隊能不能夠繼續推動工作這種當然對於心理上的影響我有責任持續給他們鼓舞"},{"start":171.175,"end":171.876,"text":"其實現在有一些媒體對外臆測是因為說面對"},{"start":192.898,"end":209.999,"text":"在今天之前他所面對的他自己也寫了包括政治上面的包括名嘴上面對他的攻擊那麼包括今天的會議當中如果他沒有辭他如果站在這裡的時候他會不會成為一個被攻擊者"},{"start":211.414,"end":235.247,"text":"那所以部長您認為他此刻的請辭會不會是因為接下來可能還有更多的無端的攻擊你怎麼看我跟委員報告我不做預測但我其實講說我們軍人那麼久了以後的確確我們要面對很多現在環境裡面勢必的大家各自表述可能有些人並沒有經過查證而就講得出來"},{"start":236.488,"end":257.051,"text":"但這一點對於個人 的確是有相當影響的所以黃國光先生他會有這種感覺我真的我可以體會但每個人他調整的方法不同但我不做臆測講他可能面對哪一種狀況他故意逃脫或者避開我不這樣認為"},{"start":258.132,"end":283.491,"text":"因為軍人在植物裡面那麼久啊很多困難都見過總是可以解決的但問題就是說假如說問題沒有講出來那不知道問題在哪裡這就比較困難我想我對他還是相當肯定而且我也一直很感激他對我們國軍的協助對海軍的重大專業的一個投入他幾乎是全程放在裡面"},{"start":284.432,"end":306.946,"text":"這是我跟委員報我跟他接觸以後啊我對他我個人的看法而且我相信很多海軍同仁也會有同樣的看法好所以說對於剛剛您有特別提到啦這個恐怕不只是黃曙光本人他的壓力很大參與其中的每一個面向的每一個單位都其實承受了同樣的大的壓力那麼您剛也講了不會影響到潛艦國造後續"},{"start":309.554,"end":318.628,"text":"的整個發展包括媒體先寫了有一個所謂的先進國防辦公室那麼您有知道目前潛艦小組會解編然後變成所謂的先進國防辦公室由他來接棒這樣的訊息嗎"},{"start":325.52,"end":329.082,"text":"好,但是呢,至少我們可以確認的是潛艦國造的整個騎乘會持續的前進。那麼其實現在有許多的媒體的資料"},{"start":346.448,"end":361.616,"text":"等一下我的詢問部長如果您認為是機密您可以事後再派同仁或是您再來跟我報告但是現在我現在所擷取的資料都是媒體已經曝光的那麼我們也可以來讓大眾瞭解一下到底這些資訊對或不對比如說剛剛的機密報告當中確實是講了目前現有的一些狀況期程以及預算的使用但是媒體在面對接下來的建造的另外的7艘"},{"start":377.023,"end":379.985,"text":"開始就在臆測了比如說媒體說了現在成本的第一台原型艦海昆號是312億然後以15年編列的期程接下來的7艘分別是3加2加2那他用一個所謂平均值來算怎麼會後面的7艘反而比較貴那這個時候你知道這種風氣帶起來就會說欸不是量產的應該比較便宜嗎"},{"start":405.842,"end":405.862,"text":"是﹗"},{"start":425.106,"end":440.256,"text":"那潛艦是這樣嗎那這樣的媒體標題對嗎包括七艘後訓軍架居然漲了28%哇聽起來大家就會覺得說欸好像這個錢沒有用在高頭上或是有什麼地方"},{"start":441.477,"end":442.018,"text":"似乎浪費掉了來部長"},{"start":471.637,"end":499.808,"text":"這不是現在錢跟以前比然後現在錢完全就在前線上這個數量除以7那就是這樣這樣的話是有欠公允的但我們當然我們盡量的讓社會大眾知道就好像講說一個孩子要長大以後不講說他以後將來做什麼事情可是他飯還在吃進去了這對於我們一點點溝通也很感謝委員給我們這個機會讓我們做說明"},{"start":501.209,"end":528.922,"text":"好因為身為立法委員我們必須說以我的專業來講的話那麼我會做一個媒體的監控那我比較擔憂的就是說在很多機密無法說的情況底下有人要來帶風向的時候那這對於整個潛艦的團隊也是一種打擊為什麼我開場會特別提到黃曙光的事件那確實也是這樣在不能說或者是在國家安全的時候所承受的壓力面是很大的那包括我就很"},{"start":530.234,"end":558.814,"text":"認同部長能講的部分把它講出來就像我們講的後面的這7艘還有其他除了造建之外的需求在裡頭那講到這個需求其實我們知道我剛剛特別講到的所受到的壓力方方面面不只是在檯面上主導計劃必須要承受壓力必須要承受那種被攻堅污衊的可能性但是在後面"},{"start":560.011,"end":589.438,"text":"但不論是工程師或者是供應商同樣面對一樣的壓力我看過一篇報導上面提到的就是很多的供應商會認為說提供給台灣那麼可能會受到接下來中國的制裁或中國的威脅那麼會變成是如果給台灣那不如就轉向賣給其他國家不要躺這個渾水那麼就部長來看我們其實希望的是接下來就像您在報告當中也特別提到的"},{"start":589.858,"end":590.178,"text":"：林楚茵"},{"start":609.247,"end":629.978,"text":"是不是可以有機會往上拉升那這個拉升的部分整體來說當在尋求合作對象的時候除了拉升之外那麼如何來因應他們在面對就是去中國化也就是避免中國勢力介入的部分有沒有一定的所謂的這種考核或者是審查"},{"start":632.479,"end":659.912,"text":"我跟委員報兩點,第一個從委員所講的所謂的顧慮,其他廠商的顧慮這是事實但我們都要依然要去克服這也就增加他們在執行上困難的地方但我相信我們專案團隊他這幾年的經驗也累積了也知道怎麼樣去應處以後再有困難他也比照這個方法我相信只要大家多溝通,成格以對的話都可以慢慢慢慢一點點解決,這是第一個第二個"},{"start":660.552,"end":680.951,"text":"他這個潛艦做了以後我們知道任何一項工業跟這有關的或原本這個工業技術在國內並不很成熟的因為這件事情給帶動他來向上提升所以我講說國機國造國艦國造他不是講說就把這個成品做出來"},{"start":681.792,"end":683.612,"text":"所以說剛剛提到的有關於中國在市場上對於我們潛艦設備供應的阻撓有嗎?那麼有克服嗎?"},{"start":710.898,"end":725.603,"text":"這是我們一直在執行當中的事情,我們也不便講太明白,但是我們就把當作在工作進度當中會遇到可能的狀況以及已經發生的某些事實,我們來做一個處理。"},{"start":726.863,"end":727.103,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":755.506,"end":765.327,"text":"50是臺灣董事長的目標我們會努力朝這個方向前進因為提高自治率本來就是國防自主最重要的一個精神我們會去做"},{"start":766.156,"end":785.012,"text":"我們希望包括所有的這些同仁們即使在面對強大的壓力底下這個我相信全民都會是大家的後盾因為這個是大家其實唯以依賴我們國家可以安全走下去非常重要的一個部分謝謝委員也謝謝你們支持我會持續努力謝謝委員"}]}}}}