{"id":151236,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151236","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016270d05c1b882676b300915613d02a5e1dcc5dab72e655c1c94ee73133325f985115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"10:14:44 - 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00:00:34,343\n根據報導說被家暴者多次報警當然這是衛福部家防中心的職責但是報載的資訊是說這位被家暴者多次報警因為可能是家暴方是有權有勢的人物所以這一案目前還沒有開案那是後續要持續追蹤但是在報導裡面我關注到的是說疑似孩子也在家暴的現場\n\n3\n00:00:54,568 --> 00:01:19,739\n那就是我們說的目睹兒對家暴的目睹兒孩子還在學校就學當中我們學校是不是有義務來協助委員這個細節因為我可能還不太那麼了解如果因為學校本身我們都一直想為了保護這個兒少都有通報的責任如果說有進一步掌握到資訊其實是要做這樣的事情是以通案來說\n\n4\n00:01:20,939 --> 00:01:46,095\n我們校方有提供被家暴者的一項措施就是保護令就是要來隔絕施暴者讓他們沒有繼續施暴的機會所以如果保護令下來了那學校其實是可以來提出救學安全計畫那這一個個案保護兒童我們不應該對外公布但是教育部有義務去了解這一個個案他是否後續有被好好的被關注然後如果孩子有需求我們要來幫忙\n\n5\n00:01:49,158 --> 00:02:12,796\n今年是教改的30年我想回顧教改30教改是一個全方面的改革我覺得不適合拿一個片面項目來做定論成功或者是失敗回顧教改的方向包括我們有家庭教育幼兒教育一直到大學教育都是我們改革的範圍其中很重要的精神就是我們教育要鬆綁\n\n6\n00:02:13,977 --> 00:02:22,242\n那我自己是特別有感因為我在小學的時候當時就讀是臺北縣的北新國小當時我也參與了教改因為我是被實驗者我們參與了叫做410美勞教育開放教育實驗班那是由當時國北市的一群教授來跟我們在國小裡面教育現場的小學老師合作提出的教改的實驗計畫那這是一個6年不分班的計畫\n\n7\n00:02:40,794 --> 00:02:51,545\n所以當時所有我們的課程的內容都是由這一群我熱血的教授以及現場的老師們共同來擬定的那我自己在參與的過程當中我覺得\n\n8\n00:02:56,269 --> 00:03:11,769\n我的生命得到了一個很開放跟自由的啟發進到教室對我來說是走進一個更開闊的空間而不是被關在一個教室裡面所以對我來說我覺得教育的改革\n\n9\n00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:15,833\n我們今天要討論的不應該是成功或者失敗應該是我們教改的未盡之業還有哪些因為包括了我們當時提到的我們希望呢有達到85%的幼兒可以就學那我們今天大概達到了九成多還沒有達到百分之百都還在努力當中我們要提供更多的公幼公托那我們希望教育現場可以自主\n\n10\n00:03:40,134 --> 00:03:41,254\n我蠻熟悉啦因為剛好是那當時吳靜峰吳主任\n\n11\n00:04:04,442 --> 00:04:30,751\n他們當時正在討論這個問題包括林曼莉館長當時剛委員所提到當時它就是一個啟動因為那個階段講真話還算是很正要展開的階段所以當時北新國小的這個實驗方案我在臺北縣教育局服務我很了解因為這樣才發現到其實有好多學校已經有很多在思考怎麼樣讓孩子的學習不是在我們原來的這種既有的框架下\n\n12\n00:04:31,611 --> 00:04:40,957\n所以這個應該是一個起步到逐步的展開是那我相信我參與到的教改也不只是一個個案我要說的就是教改不只是410大遊行也不只是教改會其實在我們全台灣的各地有非常多的教育人員在這個30年當中都做了很多不同的嘗試那我認為我們教育部應該可以來去整理這些資料也讓社會可以看見教改更多的面貌\n\n13\n00:04:57,347 --> 00:05:02,450\n但是教育對我自己來說因為參與了這一段的實驗教育那後來我就回歸到體制內進入了國中、高中來就讀那我在念國中的時候呢還是有體法的年代所以呢我從這個很寬廣的開放教育一回到體制內我開始面臨的是整整三年的體法\n\n14\n00:05:18,197 --> 00:05:20,658\n因為當時的學校服儀規定只要我們這個衣服沒有紮進去這個頭髮超過兩公分每一個項目都是要被打的所以我整整紮死的被打了三年所以呢在這個教育的過程當中我們知道教改一定要持續的做下去所以今天也要跟部長關切的是服儀規定\n\n15\n00:05:38,587 --> 00:05:54,754\n因為我們在這個也是你的任內我們已經有推動修法那目前我們的服儀的精神就是服儀要自主但過去有在擔任臺北市議員我也發現說教育部雖然公告了學校我們應該讓尊重學生服儀自主但是呢到教學現場裡面很多學校還沒有去修改他的校規\n\n16\n00:05:58,516 --> 00:06:03,899\n還沒有召開學務會議雖然中央有這樣規定的鬆綁在教學現場仍然是會處罰的當時我也要求臺北市政府教育局要去對全市的學校來進行督導我知道教育部這幾年也收到了很多有關於服儀的陳情我們發函的督導案件量也是持續的攀升當中我們對於這個服儀自主\n\n17\n00:06:22,850 --> 00:06:28,654\n目前我們有沒有瞭解我們全國的狀況學校已經通通都改善了嗎?根據委員報告如果就規範因為規範學校所訂的這一套它有一個機制包括學生家長等參與通過校務會議同理跟我提到這個規範一初期確實有些學校就還按兵不動目前來講因為都會有\n\n18\n00:06:46,465 --> 00:06:46,525\n主席吳沛憶議員\n\n19\n00:07:12,186 --> 00:07:15,270\n我希望這部分教育部可以持續的來關注\n\n20\n00:07:32,388 --> 00:07:56,897\n有一個檢舉陳請的機制就是讓我們有機會再進一步瞭解到是不是有學校仍然還是用他自己的方法在做這個我想會再持續的督導接下來跟部長關切的是性剝削的防治尤其是我們的兒少性剝削這個當然社會非常的關注那我想有一個很重要的根本還是在於我們教育\n\n21\n00:07:57,857 --> 00:08:18,957\n目前我們在學校裡面有關於兒少性剝削的防治其實有在很多的素養教材裡面的素養教育不過我看了一下例如說我們把它放在這個資訊課程裡面資訊課程裡面呢我們教孩子說如果說你有面臨到這樣子的性剝削相關的事情的話你可以做哪些事情我們跟他說你可以做四個第一個告訴老師再來呢我們要這個截圖存證然後我們要去報警\n\n22\n00:08:23,001 --> 00:08:50,927\n並且我們要檢舉對方但我覺得漏了非常重要的一項我們要教會孩子他要怎麼樣通報來把他的影像先下架先下架是保護孩子非常重要第一時間應該要去做的事情那甚至學校的老師是不是都知道我們現在衛福部這整一個下架的流程性暴力影像性私密影像被外流的下架流程這我認為我們要趕快加入我們的教材裡面\n\n23\n00:08:51,887 --> 00:09:16,123\n同時,他也不應該只是在一個科技資訊的課程裡其實性剝削的防治他應該是在很多的課程裡面包括我們的公民教育我們法律的知識同學不是只有觀看如果你也散播的話這也是會觸法的這非常嚴重所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以來統合一下現在在我們學校裡面這個課程有關於兒少性剝削目前我們是用什麼樣的方式來提供教材\n\n24\n00:09:22,447 --> 00:09:22,807\n主席\n\n25\n00:09:40,053 --> 00:09:55,869\n和幾個方向指封車劇團等等的去做更廣為宣傳那剛才委員提醒到我想這個不只在這一個面向上那如果目前我們所做的這些教材我想最主要一方面讓學生接觸以外他能夠有一個反應\n\n26\n00:09:56,650 --> 00:10:21,506\n我想如果在學校最主要的反應給師長這個是非常重要的所以我們為什麼會說你不要被因為孩子有時候在判斷這方面可能也被引誘以後還不知道所以會特別以這樣的方式來進行那我應該提醒的我們再統整一下因為這個需要跨部會也起來做努力因為這部分受害的孩子即使產生很大的後遺症我們會再繼續\n\n27\n00:10:22,987 --> 00:10:36,269\n是尤其部長因為我們在關切衛福部這個這個非法的這個性影像的下架他的這個通報案件書其實絕對遠遠比實際的數字來的低所以我希望我們能夠協助現場的教師我們應該能夠自己部會之間有一個比較暢通的一個管道一旦我們收到孩子來求助的時候第一時間就要協助他了不要等到他還要去報警然後還要走很多流程才有辦法讓影像下架好不好\n\n28\n00:10:51,953 --> 00:10:55,325\n謝謝委員這個提醒我覺得很必要我們在跨部會做一個整理好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5386\t8588\t謝謝主席 我請潘文忠部長好 部長 謝謝委員好部長好 在開始質詢之前我想要先跟你關切因為今天有一則新聞是傳出說有一位是在政治圈有權有勢的大咖那他的家庭裡面有家暴的事情傳出\n26961\t34343\t根據報導說被家暴者多次報警當然這是衛福部家防中心的職責但是報載的資訊是說這位被家暴者多次報警因為可能是家暴方是有權有勢的人物所以這一案目前還沒有開案那是後續要持續追蹤但是在報導裡面我關注到的是說疑似孩子也在家暴的現場\n54568\t79739\t那就是我們說的目睹兒對家暴的目睹兒孩子還在學校就學當中我們學校是不是有義務來協助委員這個細節因為我可能還不太那麼了解如果因為學校本身我們都一直想為了保護這個兒少都有通報的責任如果說有進一步掌握到資訊其實是要做這樣的事情是以通案來說\n80939\t106095\t我們校方有提供被家暴者的一項措施就是保護令就是要來隔絕施暴者讓他們沒有繼續施暴的機會所以如果保護令下來了那學校其實是可以來提出救學安全計畫那這一個個案保護兒童我們不應該對外公布但是教育部有義務去了解這一個個案他是否後續有被好好的被關注然後如果孩子有需求我們要來幫忙\n109158\t132796\t今年是教改的30年我想回顧教改30教改是一個全方面的改革我覺得不適合拿一個片面項目來做定論成功或者是失敗回顧教改的方向包括我們有家庭教育幼兒教育一直到大學教育都是我們改革的範圍其中很重要的精神就是我們教育要鬆綁\n133977\t142242\t那我自己是特別有感因為我在小學的時候當時就讀是臺北縣的北新國小當時我也參與了教改因為我是被實驗者我們參與了叫做410美勞教育開放教育實驗班那是由當時國北市的一群教授來跟我們在國小裡面教育現場的小學老師合作提出的教改的實驗計畫那這是一個6年不分班的計畫\n160794\t171545\t所以當時所有我們的課程的內容都是由這一群我熱血的教授以及現場的老師們共同來擬定的那我自己在參與的過程當中我覺得\n176269\t191769\t我的生命得到了一個很開放跟自由的啟發進到教室對我來說是走進一個更開闊的空間而不是被關在一個教室裡面所以對我來說我覺得教育的改革\n193070\t195833\t我們今天要討論的不應該是成功或者失敗應該是我們教改的未盡之業還有哪些因為包括了我們當時提到的我們希望呢有達到85%的幼兒可以就學那我們今天大概達到了九成多還沒有達到百分之百都還在努力當中我們要提供更多的公幼公托那我們希望教育現場可以自主\n220134\t221254\t我蠻熟悉啦因為剛好是那當時吳靜峰吳主任\n244442\t270751\t他們當時正在討論這個問題包括林曼莉館長當時剛委員所提到當時它就是一個啟動因為那個階段講真話還算是很正要展開的階段所以當時北新國小的這個實驗方案我在臺北縣教育局服務我很了解因為這樣才發現到其實有好多學校已經有很多在思考怎麼樣讓孩子的學習不是在我們原來的這種既有的框架下\n271611\t280957\t所以這個應該是一個起步到逐步的展開是那我相信我參與到的教改也不只是一個個案我要說的就是教改不只是410大遊行也不只是教改會其實在我們全台灣的各地有非常多的教育人員在這個30年當中都做了很多不同的嘗試那我認為我們教育部應該可以來去整理這些資料也讓社會可以看見教改更多的面貌\n297347\t302450\t但是教育對我自己來說因為參與了這一段的實驗教育那後來我就回歸到體制內進入了國中、高中來就讀那我在念國中的時候呢還是有體法的年代所以呢我從這個很寬廣的開放教育一回到體制內我開始面臨的是整整三年的體法\n318197\t320658\t因為當時的學校服儀規定只要我們這個衣服沒有紮進去這個頭髮超過兩公分每一個項目都是要被打的所以我整整紮死的被打了三年所以呢在這個教育的過程當中我們知道教改一定要持續的做下去所以今天也要跟部長關切的是服儀規定\n338587\t354754\t因為我們在這個也是你的任內我們已經有推動修法那目前我們的服儀的精神就是服儀要自主但過去有在擔任臺北市議員我也發現說教育部雖然公告了學校我們應該讓尊重學生服儀自主但是呢到教學現場裡面很多學校還沒有去修改他的校規\n358516\t363899\t還沒有召開學務會議雖然中央有這樣規定的鬆綁在教學現場仍然是會處罰的當時我也要求臺北市政府教育局要去對全市的學校來進行督導我知道教育部這幾年也收到了很多有關於服儀的陳情我們發函的督導案件量也是持續的攀升當中我們對於這個服儀自主\n382850\t388654\t目前我們有沒有瞭解我們全國的狀況學校已經通通都改善了嗎?根據委員報告如果就規範因為規範學校所訂的這一套它有一個機制包括學生家長等參與通過校務會議同理跟我提到這個規範一初期確實有些學校就還按兵不動目前來講因為都會有\n406465\t406525\t主席吳沛憶議員\n432186\t435270\t我希望這部分教育部可以持續的來關注\n452388\t476897\t有一個檢舉陳請的機制就是讓我們有機會再進一步瞭解到是不是有學校仍然還是用他自己的方法在做這個我想會再持續的督導接下來跟部長關切的是性剝削的防治尤其是我們的兒少性剝削這個當然社會非常的關注那我想有一個很重要的根本還是在於我們教育\n477857\t498957\t目前我們在學校裡面有關於兒少性剝削的防治其實有在很多的素養教材裡面的素養教育不過我看了一下例如說我們把它放在這個資訊課程裡面資訊課程裡面呢我們教孩子說如果說你有面臨到這樣子的性剝削相關的事情的話你可以做哪些事情我們跟他說你可以做四個第一個告訴老師再來呢我們要這個截圖存證然後我們要去報警\n503001\t530927\t並且我們要檢舉對方但我覺得漏了非常重要的一項我們要教會孩子他要怎麼樣通報來把他的影像先下架先下架是保護孩子非常重要第一時間應該要去做的事情那甚至學校的老師是不是都知道我們現在衛福部這整一個下架的流程性暴力影像性私密影像被外流的下架流程這我認為我們要趕快加入我們的教材裡面\n531887\t556123\t同時,他也不應該只是在一個科技資訊的課程裡其實性剝削的防治他應該是在很多的課程裡面包括我們的公民教育我們法律的知識同學不是只有觀看如果你也散播的話這也是會觸法的這非常嚴重所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以來統合一下現在在我們學校裡面這個課程有關於兒少性剝削目前我們是用什麼樣的方式來提供教材\n562447\t562807\t主席\n580053\t595869\t和幾個方向指封車劇團等等的去做更廣為宣傳那剛才委員提醒到我想這個不只在這一個面向上那如果目前我們所做的這些教材我想最主要一方面讓學生接觸以外他能夠有一個反應\n596650\t621506\t我想如果在學校最主要的反應給師長這個是非常重要的所以我們為什麼會說你不要被因為孩子有時候在判斷這方面可能也被引誘以後還不知道所以會特別以這樣的方式來進行那我應該提醒的我們再統整一下因為這個需要跨部會也起來做努力因為這部分受害的孩子即使產生很大的後遺症我們會再繼續\n622987\t636269\t是尤其部長因為我們在關切衛福部這個這個非法的這個性影像的下架他的這個通報案件書其實絕對遠遠比實際的數字來的低所以我希望我們能夠協助現場的教師我們應該能夠自己部會之間有一個比較暢通的一個管道一旦我們收到孩子來求助的時候第一時間就要協助他了不要等到他還要去報警然後還要走很多流程才有辦法讓影像下架好不好\n651953\t655325\t謝謝委員 這個提醒我覺得很必要我們在跨部會做一個整理好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我請潘文忠部長好 部長 謝謝委員好部長好 在開始質詢之前我想要先跟你關切因為今天有一則新聞是傳出說有一位是在政治圈有權有勢的大咖那他的家庭裡面有家暴的事情傳出\n根據報導說被家暴者多次報警當然這是衛福部家防中心的職責但是報載的資訊是說這位被家暴者多次報警因為可能是家暴方是有權有勢的人物所以這一案目前還沒有開案那是後續要持續追蹤但是在報導裡面我關注到的是說疑似孩子也在家暴的現場\n那就是我們說的目睹兒對家暴的目睹兒孩子還在學校就學當中我們學校是不是有義務來協助委員這個細節因為我可能還不太那麼了解如果因為學校本身我們都一直想為了保護這個兒少都有通報的責任如果說有進一步掌握到資訊其實是要做這樣的事情是以通案來說\n我們校方有提供被家暴者的一項措施就是保護令就是要來隔絕施暴者讓他們沒有繼續施暴的機會所以如果保護令下來了那學校其實是可以來提出救學安全計畫那這一個個案保護兒童我們不應該對外公布但是教育部有義務去了解這一個個案他是否後續有被好好的被關注然後如果孩子有需求我們要來幫忙\n今年是教改的30年我想回顧教改30教改是一個全方面的改革我覺得不適合拿一個片面項目來做定論成功或者是失敗回顧教改的方向包括我們有家庭教育幼兒教育一直到大學教育都是我們改革的範圍其中很重要的精神就是我們教育要鬆綁\n那我自己是特別有感因為我在小學的時候當時就讀是臺北縣的北新國小當時我也參與了教改因為我是被實驗者我們參與了叫做410美勞教育開放教育實驗班那是由當時國北市的一群教授來跟我們在國小裡面教育現場的小學老師合作提出的教改的實驗計畫那這是一個6年不分班的計畫\n所以當時所有我們的課程的內容都是由這一群我熱血的教授以及現場的老師們共同來擬定的那我自己在參與的過程當中我覺得\n我的生命得到了一個很開放跟自由的啟發進到教室對我來說是走進一個更開闊的空間而不是被關在一個教室裡面所以對我來說我覺得教育的改革\n我們今天要討論的不應該是成功或者失敗應該是我們教改的未盡之業還有哪些因為包括了我們當時提到的我們希望呢有達到85%的幼兒可以就學那我們今天大概達到了九成多還沒有達到百分之百都還在努力當中我們要提供更多的公幼公托那我們希望教育現場可以自主\n我蠻熟悉啦因為剛好是那當時吳靜峰吳主任\n他們當時正在討論這個問題包括林曼莉館長當時剛委員所提到當時它就是一個啟動因為那個階段講真話還算是很正要展開的階段所以當時北新國小的這個實驗方案我在臺北縣教育局服務我很了解因為這樣才發現到其實有好多學校已經有很多在思考怎麼樣讓孩子的學習不是在我們原來的這種既有的框架下\n所以這個應該是一個起步到逐步的展開是那我相信我參與到的教改也不只是一個個案我要說的就是教改不只是410大遊行也不只是教改會其實在我們全台灣的各地有非常多的教育人員在這個30年當中都做了很多不同的嘗試那我認為我們教育部應該可以來去整理這些資料也讓社會可以看見教改更多的面貌\n但是教育對我自己來說因為參與了這一段的實驗教育那後來我就回歸到體制內進入了國中、高中來就讀那我在念國中的時候呢還是有體法的年代所以呢我從這個很寬廣的開放教育一回到體制內我開始面臨的是整整三年的體法\n因為當時的學校服儀規定只要我們這個衣服沒有紮進去這個頭髮超過兩公分每一個項目都是要被打的所以我整整紮死的被打了三年所以呢在這個教育的過程當中我們知道教改一定要持續的做下去所以今天也要跟部長關切的是服儀規定\n因為我們在這個也是你的任內我們已經有推動修法那目前我們的服儀的精神就是服儀要自主但過去有在擔任臺北市議員我也發現說教育部雖然公告了學校我們應該讓尊重學生服儀自主但是呢到教學現場裡面很多學校還沒有去修改他的校規\n還沒有召開學務會議雖然中央有這樣規定的鬆綁在教學現場仍然是會處罰的當時我也要求臺北市政府教育局要去對全市的學校來進行督導我知道教育部這幾年也收到了很多有關於服儀的陳情我們發函的督導案件量也是持續的攀升當中我們對於這個服儀自主\n目前我們有沒有瞭解我們全國的狀況學校已經通通都改善了嗎?根據委員報告如果就規範因為規範學校所訂的這一套它有一個機制包括學生家長等參與通過校務會議同理跟我提到這個規範一初期確實有些學校就還按兵不動目前來講因為都會有\n主席吳沛憶議員\n我希望這部分教育部可以持續的來關注\n有一個檢舉陳請的機制就是讓我們有機會再進一步瞭解到是不是有學校仍然還是用他自己的方法在做這個我想會再持續的督導接下來跟部長關切的是性剝削的防治尤其是我們的兒少性剝削這個當然社會非常的關注那我想有一個很重要的根本還是在於我們教育\n目前我們在學校裡面有關於兒少性剝削的防治其實有在很多的素養教材裡面的素養教育不過我看了一下例如說我們把它放在這個資訊課程裡面資訊課程裡面呢我們教孩子說如果說你有面臨到這樣子的性剝削相關的事情的話你可以做哪些事情我們跟他說你可以做四個第一個告訴老師再來呢我們要這個截圖存證然後我們要去報警\n並且我們要檢舉對方但我覺得漏了非常重要的一項我們要教會孩子他要怎麼樣通報來把他的影像先下架先下架是保護孩子非常重要第一時間應該要去做的事情那甚至學校的老師是不是都知道我們現在衛福部這整一個下架的流程性暴力影像性私密影像被外流的下架流程這我認為我們要趕快加入我們的教材裡面\n同時,他也不應該只是在一個科技資訊的課程裡其實性剝削的防治他應該是在很多的課程裡面包括我們的公民教育我們法律的知識同學不是只有觀看如果你也散播的話這也是會觸法的這非常嚴重所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以來統合一下現在在我們學校裡面這個課程有關於兒少性剝削目前我們是用什麼樣的方式來提供教材\n主席\n和幾個方向指封車劇團等等的去做更廣為宣傳那剛才委員提醒到我想這個不只在這一個面向上那如果目前我們所做的這些教材我想最主要一方面讓學生接觸以外他能夠有一個反應\n我想如果在學校最主要的反應給師長這個是非常重要的所以我們為什麼會說你不要被因為孩子有時候在判斷這方面可能也被引誘以後還不知道所以會特別以這樣的方式來進行那我應該提醒的我們再統整一下因為這個需要跨部會也起來做努力因為這部分受害的孩子即使產生很大的後遺症我們會再繼續\n是尤其部長因為我們在關切衛福部這個這個非法的這個性影像的下架他的這個通報案件書其實絕對遠遠比實際的數字來的低所以我希望我們能夠協助現場的教師我們應該能夠自己部會之間有一個比較暢通的一個管道一旦我們收到孩子來求助的時候第一時間就要協助他了不要等到他還要去報警然後還要走很多流程才有辦法讓影像下架好不好\n謝謝委員 這個提醒我覺得很必要我們在跨部會做一個整理好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.386 --> 00:08.588\n謝謝主席我請潘文忠部長好部長謝謝委員好部長好在開始質詢之前我想要先跟你關切因為今天有一則新聞是傳出說有一位是在政治圈有權有勢的大咖那他的家庭裡面有家暴的事情傳出\n\n00:26.961 --> 00:34.343\n根據報導說被家暴者多次報警當然這是衛福部家防中心的職責但是報載的資訊是說這位被家暴者多次報警因為可能是家暴方是有權有勢的人物所以這一案目前還沒有開案那是後續要持續追蹤但是在報導裡面我關注到的是說疑似孩子也在家暴的現場\n\n00:54.568 --> 01:19.739\n那就是我們說的目睹兒對家暴的目睹兒孩子還在學校就學當中我們學校是不是有義務來協助委員這個細節因為我可能還不太那麼了解如果因為學校本身我們都一直想為了保護這個兒少都有通報的責任如果說有進一步掌握到資訊其實是要做這樣的事情是以通案來說\n\n01:20.939 --> 01:46.095\n我們校方有提供被家暴者的一項措施就是保護令就是要來隔絕施暴者讓他們沒有繼續施暴的機會所以如果保護令下來了那學校其實是可以來提出救學安全計畫那這一個個案保護兒童我們不應該對外公布但是教育部有義務去了解這一個個案他是否後續有被好好的被關注然後如果孩子有需求我們要來幫忙\n\n01:49.158 --> 02:12.796\n今年是教改的30年我想回顧教改30教改是一個全方面的改革我覺得不適合拿一個片面項目來做定論成功或者是失敗回顧教改的方向包括我們有家庭教育幼兒教育一直到大學教育都是我們改革的範圍其中很重要的精神就是我們教育要鬆綁\n\n02:13.977 --> 02:22.242\n那我自己是特別有感因為我在小學的時候當時就讀是臺北縣的北新國小當時我也參與了教改因為我是被實驗者我們參與了叫做410美勞教育開放教育實驗班那是由當時國北市的一群教授來跟我們在國小裡面教育現場的小學老師合作提出的教改的實驗計畫那這是一個6年不分班的計畫\n\n02:40.794 --> 02:51.545\n所以當時所有我們的課程的內容都是由這一群我熱血的教授以及現場的老師們共同來擬定的那我自己在參與的過程當中我覺得\n\n02:56.269 --> 03:11.769\n我的生命得到了一個很開放跟自由的啟發進到教室對我來說是走進一個更開闊的空間而不是被關在一個教室裡面所以對我來說我覺得教育的改革\n\n03:13.070 --> 03:15.833\n我們今天要討論的不應該是成功或者失敗應該是我們教改的未盡之業還有哪些因為包括了我們當時提到的我們希望呢有達到85%的幼兒可以就學那我們今天大概達到了九成多還沒有達到百分之百都還在努力當中我們要提供更多的公幼公托那我們希望教育現場可以自主\n\n03:40.134 --> 03:41.254\n我蠻熟悉啦因為剛好是那當時吳靜峰吳主任\n\n04:04.442 --> 04:30.751\n他們當時正在討論這個問題包括林曼莉館長當時剛委員所提到當時它就是一個啟動因為那個階段講真話還算是很正要展開的階段所以當時北新國小的這個實驗方案我在臺北縣教育局服務我很了解因為這樣才發現到其實有好多學校已經有很多在思考怎麼樣讓孩子的學習不是在我們原來的這種既有的框架下\n\n04:31.611 --> 04:40.957\n所以這個應該是一個起步到逐步的展開是那我相信我參與到的教改也不只是一個個案我要說的就是教改不只是410大遊行也不只是教改會其實在我們全台灣的各地有非常多的教育人員在這個30年當中都做了很多不同的嘗試那我認為我們教育部應該可以來去整理這些資料也讓社會可以看見教改更多的面貌\n\n04:57.347 --> 05:02.450\n但是教育對我自己來說因為參與了這一段的實驗教育那後來我就回歸到體制內進入了國中、高中來就讀那我在念國中的時候呢還是有體法的年代所以呢我從這個很寬廣的開放教育一回到體制內我開始面臨的是整整三年的體法\n\n05:18.197 --> 05:20.658\n因為當時的學校服儀規定只要我們這個衣服沒有紮進去這個頭髮超過兩公分每一個項目都是要被打的所以我整整紮死的被打了三年所以呢在這個教育的過程當中我們知道教改一定要持續的做下去所以今天也要跟部長關切的是服儀規定\n\n05:38.587 --> 05:54.754\n因為我們在這個也是你的任內我們已經有推動修法那目前我們的服儀的精神就是服儀要自主但過去有在擔任臺北市議員我也發現說教育部雖然公告了學校我們應該讓尊重學生服儀自主但是呢到教學現場裡面很多學校還沒有去修改他的校規\n\n05:58.516 --> 06:03.899\n還沒有召開學務會議雖然中央有這樣規定的鬆綁在教學現場仍然是會處罰的當時我也要求臺北市政府教育局要去對全市的學校來進行督導我知道教育部這幾年也收到了很多有關於服儀的陳情我們發函的督導案件量也是持續的攀升當中我們對於這個服儀自主\n\n06:22.850 --> 06:28.654\n目前我們有沒有瞭解我們全國的狀況學校已經通通都改善了嗎?根據委員報告如果就規範因為規範學校所訂的這一套它有一個機制包括學生家長等參與通過校務會議同理跟我提到這個規範一初期確實有些學校就還按兵不動目前來講因為都會有\n\n06:46.465 --> 06:46.525\n主席吳沛憶議員\n\n07:12.186 --> 07:15.270\n我希望這部分教育部可以持續的來關注\n\n07:32.388 --> 07:56.897\n有一個檢舉陳請的機制就是讓我們有機會再進一步瞭解到是不是有學校仍然還是用他自己的方法在做這個我想會再持續的督導接下來跟部長關切的是性剝削的防治尤其是我們的兒少性剝削這個當然社會非常的關注那我想有一個很重要的根本還是在於我們教育\n\n07:57.857 --> 08:18.957\n目前我們在學校裡面有關於兒少性剝削的防治其實有在很多的素養教材裡面的素養教育不過我看了一下例如說我們把它放在這個資訊課程裡面資訊課程裡面呢我們教孩子說如果說你有面臨到這樣子的性剝削相關的事情的話你可以做哪些事情我們跟他說你可以做四個第一個告訴老師再來呢我們要這個截圖存證然後我們要去報警\n\n08:23.001 --> 08:50.927\n並且我們要檢舉對方但我覺得漏了非常重要的一項我們要教會孩子他要怎麼樣通報來把他的影像先下架先下架是保護孩子非常重要第一時間應該要去做的事情那甚至學校的老師是不是都知道我們現在衛福部這整一個下架的流程性暴力影像性私密影像被外流的下架流程這我認為我們要趕快加入我們的教材裡面\n\n08:51.887 --> 09:16.123\n同時,他也不應該只是在一個科技資訊的課程裡其實性剝削的防治他應該是在很多的課程裡面包括我們的公民教育我們法律的知識同學不是只有觀看如果你也散播的話這也是會觸法的這非常嚴重所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以來統合一下現在在我們學校裡面這個課程有關於兒少性剝削目前我們是用什麼樣的方式來提供教材\n\n09:22.447 --> 09:22.807\n主席\n\n09:40.053 --> 09:55.869\n和幾個方向指封車劇團等等的去做更廣為宣傳那剛才委員提醒到我想這個不只在這一個面向上那如果目前我們所做的這些教材我想最主要一方面讓學生接觸以外他能夠有一個反應\n\n09:56.650 --> 10:21.506\n我想如果在學校最主要的反應給師長這個是非常重要的所以我們為什麼會說你不要被因為孩子有時候在判斷這方面可能也被引誘以後還不知道所以會特別以這樣的方式來進行那我應該提醒的我們再統整一下因為這個需要跨部會也起來做努力因為這部分受害的孩子即使產生很大的後遺症我們會再繼續\n\n10:22.987 --> 10:36.269\n是尤其部長因為我們在關切衛福部這個這個非法的這個性影像的下架他的這個通報案件書其實絕對遠遠比實際的數字來的低所以我希望我們能夠協助現場的教師我們應該能夠自己部會之間有一個比較暢通的一個管道一旦我們收到孩子來求助的時候第一時間就要協助他了不要等到他還要去報警然後還要走很多流程才有辦法讓影像下架好不好\n\n10:51.953 --> 10:55.325\n謝謝委員這個提醒我覺得很必要我們在跨部會做一個整理好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.386,"end":8.588,"text":"謝謝主席 我請潘文忠部長好 部長 謝謝委員好部長好 在開始質詢之前我想要先跟你關切因為今天有一則新聞是傳出說有一位是在政治圈有權有勢的大咖那他的家庭裡面有家暴的事情傳出"},{"start":26.961,"end":34.343,"text":"根據報導說被家暴者多次報警當然這是衛福部家防中心的職責但是報載的資訊是說這位被家暴者多次報警因為可能是家暴方是有權有勢的人物所以這一案目前還沒有開案那是後續要持續追蹤但是在報導裡面我關注到的是說疑似孩子也在家暴的現場"},{"start":54.568,"end":79.739,"text":"那就是我們說的目睹兒對家暴的目睹兒孩子還在學校就學當中我們學校是不是有義務來協助委員這個細節因為我可能還不太那麼了解如果因為學校本身我們都一直想為了保護這個兒少都有通報的責任如果說有進一步掌握到資訊其實是要做這樣的事情是以通案來說"},{"start":80.939,"end":106.095,"text":"我們校方有提供被家暴者的一項措施就是保護令就是要來隔絕施暴者讓他們沒有繼續施暴的機會所以如果保護令下來了那學校其實是可以來提出救學安全計畫那這一個個案保護兒童我們不應該對外公布但是教育部有義務去了解這一個個案他是否後續有被好好的被關注然後如果孩子有需求我們要來幫忙"},{"start":109.158,"end":132.796,"text":"今年是教改的30年我想回顧教改30教改是一個全方面的改革我覺得不適合拿一個片面項目來做定論成功或者是失敗回顧教改的方向包括我們有家庭教育幼兒教育一直到大學教育都是我們改革的範圍其中很重要的精神就是我們教育要鬆綁"},{"start":133.977,"end":142.242,"text":"那我自己是特別有感因為我在小學的時候當時就讀是臺北縣的北新國小當時我也參與了教改因為我是被實驗者我們參與了叫做410美勞教育開放教育實驗班那是由當時國北市的一群教授來跟我們在國小裡面教育現場的小學老師合作提出的教改的實驗計畫那這是一個6年不分班的計畫"},{"start":160.794,"end":171.545,"text":"所以當時所有我們的課程的內容都是由這一群我熱血的教授以及現場的老師們共同來擬定的那我自己在參與的過程當中我覺得"},{"start":176.269,"end":191.769,"text":"我的生命得到了一個很開放跟自由的啟發進到教室對我來說是走進一個更開闊的空間而不是被關在一個教室裡面所以對我來說我覺得教育的改革"},{"start":193.07,"end":195.833,"text":"我們今天要討論的不應該是成功或者失敗應該是我們教改的未盡之業還有哪些因為包括了我們當時提到的我們希望呢有達到85%的幼兒可以就學那我們今天大概達到了九成多還沒有達到百分之百都還在努力當中我們要提供更多的公幼公托那我們希望教育現場可以自主"},{"start":220.134,"end":221.254,"text":"我蠻熟悉啦因為剛好是那當時吳靜峰吳主任"},{"start":244.442,"end":270.751,"text":"他們當時正在討論這個問題包括林曼莉館長當時剛委員所提到當時它就是一個啟動因為那個階段講真話還算是很正要展開的階段所以當時北新國小的這個實驗方案我在臺北縣教育局服務我很了解因為這樣才發現到其實有好多學校已經有很多在思考怎麼樣讓孩子的學習不是在我們原來的這種既有的框架下"},{"start":271.611,"end":280.957,"text":"所以這個應該是一個起步到逐步的展開是那我相信我參與到的教改也不只是一個個案我要說的就是教改不只是410大遊行也不只是教改會其實在我們全台灣的各地有非常多的教育人員在這個30年當中都做了很多不同的嘗試那我認為我們教育部應該可以來去整理這些資料也讓社會可以看見教改更多的面貌"},{"start":297.347,"end":302.45,"text":"但是教育對我自己來說因為參與了這一段的實驗教育那後來我就回歸到體制內進入了國中、高中來就讀那我在念國中的時候呢還是有體法的年代所以呢我從這個很寬廣的開放教育一回到體制內我開始面臨的是整整三年的體法"},{"start":318.197,"end":320.658,"text":"因為當時的學校服儀規定只要我們這個衣服沒有紮進去這個頭髮超過兩公分每一個項目都是要被打的所以我整整紮死的被打了三年所以呢在這個教育的過程當中我們知道教改一定要持續的做下去所以今天也要跟部長關切的是服儀規定"},{"start":338.587,"end":354.754,"text":"因為我們在這個也是你的任內我們已經有推動修法那目前我們的服儀的精神就是服儀要自主但過去有在擔任臺北市議員我也發現說教育部雖然公告了學校我們應該讓尊重學生服儀自主但是呢到教學現場裡面很多學校還沒有去修改他的校規"},{"start":358.516,"end":363.899,"text":"還沒有召開學務會議雖然中央有這樣規定的鬆綁在教學現場仍然是會處罰的當時我也要求臺北市政府教育局要去對全市的學校來進行督導我知道教育部這幾年也收到了很多有關於服儀的陳情我們發函的督導案件量也是持續的攀升當中我們對於這個服儀自主"},{"start":382.85,"end":388.654,"text":"目前我們有沒有瞭解我們全國的狀況學校已經通通都改善了嗎?根據委員報告如果就規範因為規範學校所訂的這一套它有一個機制包括學生家長等參與通過校務會議同理跟我提到這個規範一初期確實有些學校就還按兵不動目前來講因為都會有"},{"start":406.465,"end":406.525,"text":"主席吳沛憶議員"},{"start":432.186,"end":435.27,"text":"我希望這部分教育部可以持續的來關注"},{"start":452.388,"end":476.897,"text":"有一個檢舉陳請的機制就是讓我們有機會再進一步瞭解到是不是有學校仍然還是用他自己的方法在做這個我想會再持續的督導接下來跟部長關切的是性剝削的防治尤其是我們的兒少性剝削這個當然社會非常的關注那我想有一個很重要的根本還是在於我們教育"},{"start":477.857,"end":498.957,"text":"目前我們在學校裡面有關於兒少性剝削的防治其實有在很多的素養教材裡面的素養教育不過我看了一下例如說我們把它放在這個資訊課程裡面資訊課程裡面呢我們教孩子說如果說你有面臨到這樣子的性剝削相關的事情的話你可以做哪些事情我們跟他說你可以做四個第一個告訴老師再來呢我們要這個截圖存證然後我們要去報警"},{"start":503.001,"end":530.927,"text":"並且我們要檢舉對方但我覺得漏了非常重要的一項我們要教會孩子他要怎麼樣通報來把他的影像先下架先下架是保護孩子非常重要第一時間應該要去做的事情那甚至學校的老師是不是都知道我們現在衛福部這整一個下架的流程性暴力影像性私密影像被外流的下架流程這我認為我們要趕快加入我們的教材裡面"},{"start":531.887,"end":556.123,"text":"同時,他也不應該只是在一個科技資訊的課程裡其實性剝削的防治他應該是在很多的課程裡面包括我們的公民教育我們法律的知識同學不是只有觀看如果你也散播的話這也是會觸法的這非常嚴重所以我希望我們教育部是不是可以來統合一下現在在我們學校裡面這個課程有關於兒少性剝削目前我們是用什麼樣的方式來提供教材"},{"start":562.447,"end":562.807,"text":"主席"},{"start":580.053,"end":595.869,"text":"和幾個方向指封車劇團等等的去做更廣為宣傳那剛才委員提醒到我想這個不只在這一個面向上那如果目前我們所做的這些教材我想最主要一方面讓學生接觸以外他能夠有一個反應"},{"start":596.65,"end":621.506,"text":"我想如果在學校最主要的反應給師長這個是非常重要的所以我們為什麼會說你不要被因為孩子有時候在判斷這方面可能也被引誘以後還不知道所以會特別以這樣的方式來進行那我應該提醒的我們再統整一下因為這個需要跨部會也起來做努力因為這部分受害的孩子即使產生很大的後遺症我們會再繼續"},{"start":622.987,"end":636.269,"text":"是尤其部長因為我們在關切衛福部這個這個非法的這個性影像的下架他的這個通報案件書其實絕對遠遠比實際的數字來的低所以我希望我們能夠協助現場的教師我們應該能夠自己部會之間有一個比較暢通的一個管道一旦我們收到孩子來求助的時候第一時間就要協助他了不要等到他還要去報警然後還要走很多流程才有辦法讓影像下架好不好"},{"start":651.953,"end":655.325,"text":"謝謝委員 這個提醒我覺得很必要我們在跨部會做一個整理好 謝謝"}]}}}}