{"id":151238,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151238","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016274d6daf1048cbddc5cf744a9f110b3b1fc5dab72e655c1c949fb31201d8e0b9555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:17:06 - 10:28:57","影片長度":"00:11:51","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、行政院消費者保護處就「如何改善我國融資公司因缺乏監管所衍生之社會亂象，以穩定金融市場並保障消費者權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請內政部警政署、法務部列席備詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-8"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":711,"end_time":"2024-04-17T10:28:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T10:17:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":418,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時17分）謝謝主席，我先請黃主委。"],["主席（郭委員國文）：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委，剛才主席也講了，你的任期即將屆滿，但是金管會事實上還有很多相關重要的法令或制度都還沒有正式地上路。剛才您提到有關於一些法案，其中我們一直非常關心的就是打詐的部分，本來說在Meta的部分要採取實名制、6月上路，我想確定一下，雖然這個時間是新舊政府交接，但針對未來防範這些社群平臺上面的詐騙而採取實名制，目前您能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，如同我們日前報告的，還是在6月會完成。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以只有Meta會採取……"],["黃主任委員天牧：Google已經有了。Google今年年初已經有了。"],["王委員鴻薇：Google已經採取實名制，可是Google的部分現在還是非常、非常多啊！我知道即便到今年為止，很多名人或企業老闆也深受其害。所以現在確定的只有Google及Meta？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，而且跟您報告，就我的瞭解，打詐專法應該也會儘量在這個會期送到大院。"],["王委員鴻薇：本來是在幾月？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個不是我決定的，但是我知道流程上是希望儘快回應大家的期待。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們上次去金管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分，所以如果在這個會期，是6月底前可以進來嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我沒有這個層級去回答，這是行政院要跟您……"],["王委員鴻薇：好。另外，關於這次金管會的新任主委彭金隆，其實我認識他也很早，當年他在財政部，後來也有在金管會，他是以保險為主。我認為今天找彭金隆，事實上是針對未來保險業面對包含要接軌國際的會計準則，對我們的業者會有非常、非常大的衝擊，所以我覺得對主委來說，另外一方面要恭喜你，至少你可以全身而退，在你的任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件，可是接下來有關於我們的保險業馬上就要面對國際會計準則，你覺得新任的主委能不能應對這個新的情勢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實跟您報告，接軌不是這一、兩年，從更早的2018、19年就開始談，其實這幾年我的原則是考慮國……"],["王委員鴻薇：你把它延後啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：考慮國情、循序漸進、差異管理、誘因機制跟定期檢討，已經讓現在的業者有三階段來逐步降低他的壓力，當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法，或者有些需要去調整，我想我們都尊重。"],["王委員鴻薇：接下來我請財政部，還有我們今天是有經濟部次長嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["陳次長正祺：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。主委、部長還有次長，今天我們的專案報告是針對融資公司的亂象，但是事實上隨著整個情勢的變化，融資公司除了傳統的融資，像車貸等等之外，現在新型的融資所做的就是過去我們所認知的貸款業務的型態是越來越多。","我在這邊要特別提到的就是BNPL，我知道金管會那時候還請三大租賃公司來喝茶，希望針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控，可是事實上租賃公司出現最多的亂象、糾紛，或者民意代表接到最多的陳情，應該都是像個人車貸的部分，或是一些法人融資，事實上BNPL占三大租賃公司的業務量是不多的，反而現在有很多並不是租賃公司，同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL。現在的問題是，比如說融資公司因為他上市櫃，你還可以透過證交所去對他做一些管理，可是現在有這麼多的業者，有的甚至比如說我開補習班，我現在就在做，我是電商，我就在做，而且電商互相還要搶生意。因為消費者在這家電商買的話，你沒有做BNPL，可能你的競爭力就不夠，影響所及就是辦理的機構、公司早就不限於我們所理解的租賃公司了，然後很多的業者都可以做，但是我們卻沒有法可以管。所以我想請問一下，在BNPL這個部分，是不是我們現在的監管太落後，還是這些手法太前進，這部分我們有沒有辦法去做管理或者牽制？","說實在的，現在這三大租賃公司，大家對他們有很多質疑，可是他們是上市櫃公司，還可以有管道去做限制的。因為我也注意到，中央銀行曾經示警，BNPL可能成為卡債2.0。很多年輕朋友可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況，那時候很多銀行，我想在座很多銀行業者都知道，當時就是發行現金卡，造成很多個人的債務就是債臺高築，甚至都影響他的一生，可能他未來的十年都是在怎麼樣去協調卡債下去過日子，我們做民意代表也常常做這類的協調，非常痛苦，可是當我們好不容易已經度過了當年的卡債風波，現在我們眼看著另外一個卡債風波，就像當年的卡債風波是一樣的，這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式？有沒有任何的解決方式？我想請部長、主委跟次長來說明一下。"],["陳次長正祺：報告委員，依目前的法律規定，公司管理有資本充實原則，不得超過它的淨值的百分之四十，如果它今天去做BNPL裡面的借貸超過公司淨值的百分之四十，它是違法的，這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以按照你們經濟部的規範，只說它不能超過淨值的百分之四十，按照這樣的話，各個行業都可以做，對不對？補習班可以做，做醫美的也可以做，對不對？賣精品的也通通可以做，是嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：就經濟部的法律，我們所主管的法律裡面來講是沒有辦法。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以你們現在就是真的沒有辦法。來，我請金管會主委，還是主委來講一下好了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。現在我們在做的不是只有三大，我們銀行局也找過一些外商的BNPL公司瞭解他的model，但是發覺比較重要的是這三大租賃公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情，所以我們從重要性原則這方面下手去管理。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們在資源的配置上，先以最有效率的方式，大型公司它確實三大……"],["王委員鴻薇：可是我剛才講了，這三大租賃公司，BNPL其實占它的業務量真的不大，但是現在有很多新興的……"],["黃主任委員天牧：可是車貸有，報告委員，車貸有喔，車貸是有的，照山道猴子講的，其實有一家就是在做車貸的東西，我們有看那個影片。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以基本上你們還是只針對這三大租賃公司，還有這些外商的BNPL，我們有沒有什麼樣的法令或者是什麼樣的規定，可以防止央行所擔心的卡債風暴2.0的發生？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟您報告，我們銀行局找過一家外商，他做BNPL最多五千塊，最多五千塊。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你覺得沒有，你覺得央行是危言聳聽嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：不是，我的意思是說……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我就問你，央行的示警是不是對的？你這樣講的話，外商只有五千塊，不會像以前的那個現金卡，所以央行是危言聳聽嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，金管會本來就要有憂患意識，任何事情都要從小處著眼去瞭解有沒有問題，我沒有說不會有風險，但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的，我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理，用領頭羊的方式叫租賃公會通過準則，至於說BNPL的部分，我們也會循序去處理。"],["王委員鴻薇：我認為其實不只是你們在做的三大租賃公司，當然因為它還有其他的問題，包含它裡面的違約金太高，它的利息其實都已經超過民法，按照什麼違約金、違約利息，重點是我覺得BNPL現在這個型態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕，它完全沒有任何的徵信可言嘛，對不對？只要你去買東西，你就可以後付款，我們擔心的是未來的年輕人，我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金，結果我們是在這樣一個放任的狀況之下，讓他去存了第一桶的債務，而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，分期付款這個商業模式不是只有現在，過去一直都有，現在的問題是，要針對這樣的行為，我們監理的範圍要怎麼去訂，用什麼尺度、什麼時候去處理，這個要去討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我建議，因為今天是中央銀行沒有來喔，我建議相關的財經主管也找一下央行，因為央行他一定有掌控一些什麼樣的訊息，才會提出這麼嚴重的示警，不能說央行的示警，然後到了我們這邊好像雲淡風輕，就說過去也有分期付款的業務啊！他一次只有五千塊啊！好像是央行自己在那邊危言聳聽，我覺得這樣是不對的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我必須要說明，我只是回答您的問題，我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我時間到了，但是我覺得可能你現在的任期到了，可是我覺得我們應該要重視央行的示警，這是很嚴重的……"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我的任期到5月19號結束，之前我都會全力以赴，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-8","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","羅明才","林楚茵","洪孟楷","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"威\", \"start\": 692.111, \"end\": 692.171, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 692.171, \"end\": 692.191, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 692.191, \"end\": 692.211, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,874 --> 00:00:04,996\n有請黃主委\n\n2\n00:00:16,314 --> 00:00:32,688\n您的任期即將屆滿但是呢在我們的金管會事上還有很多的相關重要的法令其實或者一些制度都還沒有正式的上路剛才您提到的有關於我們的一些法案\n\n3\n00:00:36,411 --> 00:00:37,031\n在6月上路,雖然這個時間是一個新舊政府的交接,\n\n4\n00:00:57,879 --> 00:01:12,283\n未來我們這些社群平台上面的這些詐騙的實名制那目前所能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度?Google已經有了Google今年年初已經有了\n\n5\n00:01:21,189 --> 00:01:22,269\nGoogle跟Meta\n\n6\n00:01:40,942 --> 00:02:03,209\n對,而且我跟您報告,打詐專法應該也會盡量在這個會期送到大院來,我的了解。本來是在幾月?這個不是我決定,但是我知道流程上是希望盡快回應大家的期待。對,因為我們上次去經營管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分嘛,所以如果在這個會期是在6月底前可以進來嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:04,605 --> 00:02:24,204\n報告委員,我沒有這個層級去回答,是行政院要跟...另外,其實我想這一次我們金管會的新任主委彭金龍,我知道,其實我認識他也很早,那時候他其實就是在當年的財政部,然後也有在金管會,那他是保選為主,你覺得\n\n8\n00:02:25,885 --> 00:02:39,736\n未來我們的保險業我認為今天找澎金融事實上是針對我們未來保險業會面對包含國際的會計準則我們要接軌其實會對我們的業者有非常非常大的衝擊\n\n9\n00:02:40,797 --> 00:03:03,868\n所以我覺得對主委來說另外一方面要恭喜你的至少你可以全身而退在你的這個任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件可是接下來就是有關於我們的金融我們的保險他馬上就要面對國際會計準則你覺得新任的主委能不能面應對這樣的一個新的情勢\n\n10\n00:03:06,502 --> 00:03:30,336\n其實跟您報告接軌不是這一兩年從更早2018、19就開始談那我其實這幾年我的原則考慮國情循序漸進差異管理誘因機制跟定情檢討已經讓現在的業者有三階段逐步降低他的壓力那當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法或是有些需要去調整我想我們都尊重\n\n11\n00:03:31,851 --> 00:03:32,272\n財政部經濟部次長\n\n12\n00:03:46,749 --> 00:04:14,892\n主委部長還有次長今天我們的專案報告針對融資公司的亂象但是事實上呢隨著整個的這種情勢的這個變化那麼融資公司除了它一個傳統的這個融資之外什麼像車貸啊等等之外其實呢現在新型的這種其實它做的就是過去我們所認知是貸款的業務的型態是越來越多\n\n13\n00:04:15,592 --> 00:04:17,954\n那我在這邊要特別提到就是BMPL因為現在我知道金管會那時候還請三大這些租賃公司來喝茶希望能夠針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控可是事實上\n\n14\n00:04:37,952 --> 00:05:04,995\n我們帶租賃公司可能來的最多的就是有最多的亂象、糾紛或者民意代表接到最多的陳情應該都是像個人的車就是車貸的部分或者一些法人融資事實上BNPL在三大租賃公司的業務量其實是不多的那反而是現在有很多並不是租賃公司他同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL\n\n15\n00:05:06,196 --> 00:05:32,877\n現在問題是你比如說你融資公司因為他上市貴你還可以透過這個那個證交所來去對他做一些管理可是現在有這麼多的業者有的甚至比如說我開補習班我現在就在做我是電商我就在做而且電商互相還要搶生意因為你在這家電商去買的話你沒有做BMPL那你可能你的競爭力就不夠那所以\n\n16\n00:05:35,158 --> 00:05:54,348\n這個影響所及就是辦理的機構公司已經完早就不限於我們所理解的註定公司了然後很多的業者都可以做但是我們卻沒有法可以管所以我想請問一下在這個BMPL的部分\n\n17\n00:05:55,308 --> 00:06:24,708\n是不是我們現在的監管太落後還是呢這些的手法太前進所以這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一個管理或者牽制說實在我們三大的助力工大家對他們有很多的質疑可是他們上市櫃公司還可以是有管道可以去做限制的那所以在這邊呢其實我不曉得我們下一頁有嗎因為我有注意到對不起往前面\n\n18\n00:06:27,390 --> 00:06:40,240\n中央銀行曾經示警就是BNPL可能成為卡債2.0對於很多年輕朋友他們可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況那時候很多銀行業者都知道當時就發行現金卡造成很多個人的債務\n\n19\n00:06:48,547 --> 00:07:13,024\n就是在台高築甚至呢其實都影響他的一生可能他好幾未來的十年他都是在怎麼樣去協調卡在去過日子我們做民意代表我們也常常做這個協調非常痛苦可是現在我們好不容易卡在當年的卡在風波那個已經把它渡過了現在我們眼看著另外一個卡在風波\n\n20\n00:07:14,145 --> 00:07:27,316\n就是當年像當年的卡在風波是一樣的所以這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式有沒有任何的解決方式我想請部長跟主委跟次長來說明一下\n\n21\n00:07:32,452 --> 00:07:50,231\n報告委員,依目前的法律規定公司的管理上他有資本充實原則不得超過他的禁止的40%那如果說他今天去做這個BNPL裡面的借貸超過他公司禁止40%他是違法的,這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送\n\n22\n00:07:51,055 --> 00:07:52,055\n主委來講一下好了\n\n23\n00:08:20,192 --> 00:08:35,354\n現在我們做的不是只有三大我們銀行局找過一些外商的BMPL公司瞭解他的model但是發覺比較重要的是這些三大主任公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情所以我們從這方面重要性原則下手去管理\n\n24\n00:08:35,805 --> 00:08:58,317\n所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手對不對我們資源的配置上先以最有效率的方式大型公司他確實三大猴子我剛才講了其實這三大助力BMP業務其實在他的業務量真的不大的但是現在有很多新興的報告委員車代有喔車代有三大猴子講的其實有一家就是在做車代的東西\n\n25\n00:08:59,366 --> 00:09:02,527\n我跟您報告我們銀行局找過一家外商他做PNPL最多5000塊\n\n26\n00:09:26,718 --> 00:09:26,858\n報告委員\n\n27\n00:09:41,676 --> 00:10:03,541\n金管會本來就要有優化意識任何事情都要從小處著眼去了解有沒有問題我沒有說不會有風險但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理用領頭羊的方式要主任公會通過準則至於說BMPR的部分我們也會循序去處理\n\n28\n00:10:04,773 --> 00:10:17,898\n我認為啊其實不只是說沒有三大租賃公司當然這個因為他還有其他的包含他這裡面違約金太高他的利息其實都已經超過民法按照什麼違約金啊違約利息\n\n29\n00:10:19,386 --> 00:10:48,386\n重點是BNPL我覺得現在這個形態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕他完全沒有任何的真性可言嘛對不對那你只要你去買東西你就是可以hold付款那麼我們擔心的是未來年輕人我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金結果我們是在這樣的一個放任狀況之下讓他去存了第一桶的債務而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活\n\n30\n00:10:48,826 --> 00:10:51,047\n所以我建議啊因為今天是沒有中央銀行來我建議我們相關的這些財經主管\n\n31\n00:11:07,517 --> 00:11:08,798\n道遠我必須要說明我只是回答您的問題我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視\n\n32\n00:11:31,971 --> 00:11:32,211\n王煌威委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3874\t4996\t有請黃主委\n16314\t32688\t您的任期即將屆滿但是呢在我們的金管會事上還有很多的相關重要的法令其實或者一些制度都還沒有正式的上路剛才您提到的有關於我們的一些法案\n36411\t37031\t在6月上路,雖然這個時間是一個新舊政府的交接,\n57879\t72283\t未來我們這些社群平台上面的這些詐騙的實名制那目前所能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度?Google已經有了Google今年年初已經有了\n81189\t82269\tGoogle跟Meta\n100942\t123209\t對,而且我跟您報告,打詐專法應該也會盡量在這個會期送到大院來,我的了解。本來是在幾月?這個不是我決定,但是我知道流程上是希望盡快回應大家的期待。對,因為我們上次去經營管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分嘛,所以如果在這個會期是在6月底前可以進來嗎?\n124605\t144204\t報告委員,我沒有這個層級去回答,是行政院要跟...另外,其實我想這一次我們金管會的新任主委彭金龍,我知道,其實我認識他也很早,那時候他其實就是在當年的財政部,然後也有在金管會,那他是保選為主,你覺得\n145885\t159736\t未來我們的保險業我認為今天找澎金融事實上是針對我們未來保險業會面對包含國際的會計準則我們要接軌其實會對我們的業者有非常非常大的衝擊\n160797\t183868\t所以我覺得對主委來說另外一方面要恭喜你的至少你可以全身而退在你的這個任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件可是接下來就是有關於我們的金融我們的保險他馬上就要面對國際會計準則你覺得新任的主委能不能面應對這樣的一個新的情勢\n186502\t210336\t其實跟您報告接軌不是這一兩年從更早2018、19就開始談那我其實這幾年我的原則考慮國情循序漸進差異管理誘因機制跟定情檢討已經讓現在的業者有三階段逐步降低他的壓力那當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法或是有些需要去調整我想我們都尊重\n211851\t212272\t財政部經濟部次長\n226749\t254892\t主委部長還有次長今天我們的專案報告針對融資公司的亂象但是事實上呢隨著整個的這種情勢的這個變化那麼融資公司除了它一個傳統的這個融資之外什麼像車貸啊等等之外其實呢現在新型的這種其實它做的就是過去我們所認知是貸款的業務的型態是越來越多\n255592\t257954\t那我在這邊要特別提到就是BMPL因為現在我知道金管會那時候還請三大這些租賃公司來喝茶希望能夠針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控可是事實上\n277952\t304995\t我們帶租賃公司可能來的最多的就是有最多的亂象、糾紛或者民意代表接到最多的陳情應該都是像個人的車就是車貸的部分或者一些法人融資事實上BNPL在三大租賃公司的業務量其實是不多的那反而是現在有很多並不是租賃公司他同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL\n306196\t332877\t現在問題是你比如說你融資公司因為他上市貴你還可以透過這個那個證交所來去對他做一些管理可是現在有這麼多的業者有的甚至比如說我開補習班我現在就在做我是電商我就在做而且電商互相還要搶生意因為你在這家電商去買的話你沒有做BMPL那你可能你的競爭力就不夠那所以\n335158\t354348\t這個影響所及就是辦理的機構公司已經完早就不限於我們所理解的註定公司了然後很多的業者都可以做但是我們卻沒有法可以管所以我想請問一下在這個BMPL的部分\n355308\t384708\t是不是我們現在的監管太落後還是呢這些的手法太前進所以這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一個管理或者牽制說實在我們三大的助力工大家對他們有很多的質疑可是他們上市櫃公司還可以是有管道可以去做限制的那所以在這邊呢其實我不曉得我們下一頁有嗎因為我有注意到對不起往前面\n387390\t400240\t中央銀行曾經示警就是BNPL可能成為卡債2.0對於很多年輕朋友他們可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況那時候很多銀行業者都知道當時就發行現金卡造成很多個人的債務\n408547\t433024\t就是在台高築甚至呢其實都影響他的一生可能他好幾未來的十年他都是在怎麼樣去協調卡在去過日子我們做民意代表我們也常常做這個協調非常痛苦可是現在我們好不容易卡在當年的卡在風波那個已經把它渡過了現在我們眼看著另外一個卡在風波\n434145\t447316\t就是當年像當年的卡在風波是一樣的所以這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式有沒有任何的解決方式我想請部長跟主委跟次長來說明一下\n452452\t470231\t報告委員,依目前的法律規定公司的管理上他有資本充實原則不得超過他的禁止的40%那如果說他今天去做這個BNPL裡面的借貸超過他公司禁止40%他是違法的,這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送\n471055\t472055\t主委來講一下好了\n500192\t515354\t現在我們做的不是只有三大我們銀行局找過一些外商的BMPL公司瞭解他的model但是發覺比較重要的是這些三大主任公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情所以我們從這方面重要性原則下手去管理\n515805\t538317\t所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手對不對我們資源的配置上先以最有效率的方式大型公司他確實三大猴子我剛才講了其實這三大助力BMP業務其實在他的業務量真的不大的但是現在有很多新興的報告委員車代有喔車代有三大猴子講的其實有一家就是在做車代的東西\n539366\t542527\t我跟您報告我們銀行局找過一家外商他做PNPL最多5000塊\n566718\t566858\t報告委員\n581676\t603541\t金管會本來就要有優化意識任何事情都要從小處著眼去了解有沒有問題我沒有說不會有風險但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理用領頭羊的方式要主任公會通過準則至於說BMPR的部分我們也會循序去處理\n604773\t617898\t我認為啊其實不只是說沒有三大租賃公司當然這個因為他還有其他的包含他這裡面違約金太高他的利息其實都已經超過民法按照什麼違約金啊違約利息\n619386\t648386\t重點是BNPL我覺得現在這個形態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕他完全沒有任何的真性可言嘛對不對那你只要你去買東西你就是可以hold付款那麼我們擔心的是未來年輕人我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金結果我們是在這樣的一個放任狀況之下讓他去存了第一桶的債務而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活\n648826\t651047\t所以我建議啊因為今天是沒有中央銀行來我建議我們相關的這些財經主管\n667517\t668798\t道遠我必須要說明我只是回答您的問題我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視\n691971\t692211\t王煌威委員的質詢\n","txt":"有請黃主委\n您的任期即將屆滿但是呢在我們的金管會事上還有很多的相關重要的法令其實或者一些制度都還沒有正式的上路剛才您提到的有關於我們的一些法案\n在6月上路,雖然這個時間是一個新舊政府的交接,\n未來我們這些社群平台上面的這些詐騙的實名制那目前所能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度?Google已經有了Google今年年初已經有了\nGoogle跟Meta\n對,而且我跟您報告,打詐專法應該也會盡量在這個會期送到大院來,我的了解。本來是在幾月?這個不是我決定,但是我知道流程上是希望盡快回應大家的期待。對,因為我們上次去經營管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分嘛,所以如果在這個會期是在6月底前可以進來嗎?\n報告委員,我沒有這個層級去回答,是行政院要跟...另外,其實我想這一次我們金管會的新任主委彭金龍,我知道,其實我認識他也很早,那時候他其實就是在當年的財政部,然後也有在金管會,那他是保選為主,你覺得\n未來我們的保險業我認為今天找澎金融事實上是針對我們未來保險業會面對包含國際的會計準則我們要接軌其實會對我們的業者有非常非常大的衝擊\n所以我覺得對主委來說另外一方面要恭喜你的至少你可以全身而退在你的這個任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件可是接下來就是有關於我們的金融我們的保險他馬上就要面對國際會計準則你覺得新任的主委能不能面應對這樣的一個新的情勢\n其實跟您報告接軌不是這一兩年從更早2018、19就開始談那我其實這幾年我的原則考慮國情循序漸進差異管理誘因機制跟定情檢討已經讓現在的業者有三階段逐步降低他的壓力那當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法或是有些需要去調整我想我們都尊重\n財政部經濟部次長\n主委部長還有次長今天我們的專案報告針對融資公司的亂象但是事實上呢隨著整個的這種情勢的這個變化那麼融資公司除了它一個傳統的這個融資之外什麼像車貸啊等等之外其實呢現在新型的這種其實它做的就是過去我們所認知是貸款的業務的型態是越來越多\n那我在這邊要特別提到就是BMPL因為現在我知道金管會那時候還請三大這些租賃公司來喝茶希望能夠針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控可是事實上\n我們帶租賃公司可能來的最多的就是有最多的亂象、糾紛或者民意代表接到最多的陳情應該都是像個人的車就是車貸的部分或者一些法人融資事實上BNPL在三大租賃公司的業務量其實是不多的那反而是現在有很多並不是租賃公司他同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL\n現在問題是你比如說你融資公司因為他上市貴你還可以透過這個那個證交所來去對他做一些管理可是現在有這麼多的業者有的甚至比如說我開補習班我現在就在做我是電商我就在做而且電商互相還要搶生意因為你在這家電商去買的話你沒有做BMPL那你可能你的競爭力就不夠那所以\n這個影響所及就是辦理的機構公司已經完早就不限於我們所理解的註定公司了然後很多的業者都可以做但是我們卻沒有法可以管所以我想請問一下在這個BMPL的部分\n是不是我們現在的監管太落後還是呢這些的手法太前進所以這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一個管理或者牽制說實在我們三大的助力工大家對他們有很多的質疑可是他們上市櫃公司還可以是有管道可以去做限制的那所以在這邊呢其實我不曉得我們下一頁有嗎因為我有注意到對不起往前面\n中央銀行曾經示警就是BNPL可能成為卡債2.0對於很多年輕朋友他們可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況那時候很多銀行業者都知道當時就發行現金卡造成很多個人的債務\n就是在台高築甚至呢其實都影響他的一生可能他好幾未來的十年他都是在怎麼樣去協調卡在去過日子我們做民意代表我們也常常做這個協調非常痛苦可是現在我們好不容易卡在當年的卡在風波那個已經把它渡過了現在我們眼看著另外一個卡在風波\n就是當年像當年的卡在風波是一樣的所以這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式有沒有任何的解決方式我想請部長跟主委跟次長來說明一下\n報告委員,依目前的法律規定公司的管理上他有資本充實原則不得超過他的禁止的40%那如果說他今天去做這個BNPL裡面的借貸超過他公司禁止40%他是違法的,這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送\n主委來講一下好了\n現在我們做的不是只有三大我們銀行局找過一些外商的BMPL公司瞭解他的model但是發覺比較重要的是這些三大主任公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情所以我們從這方面重要性原則下手去管理\n所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手對不對我們資源的配置上先以最有效率的方式大型公司他確實三大猴子我剛才講了其實這三大助力BMP業務其實在他的業務量真的不大的但是現在有很多新興的報告委員車代有喔車代有三大猴子講的其實有一家就是在做車代的東西\n我跟您報告我們銀行局找過一家外商他做PNPL最多5000塊\n報告委員\n金管會本來就要有優化意識任何事情都要從小處著眼去了解有沒有問題我沒有說不會有風險但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理用領頭羊的方式要主任公會通過準則至於說BMPR的部分我們也會循序去處理\n我認為啊其實不只是說沒有三大租賃公司當然這個因為他還有其他的包含他這裡面違約金太高他的利息其實都已經超過民法按照什麼違約金啊違約利息\n重點是BNPL我覺得現在這個形態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕他完全沒有任何的真性可言嘛對不對那你只要你去買東西你就是可以hold付款那麼我們擔心的是未來年輕人我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金結果我們是在這樣的一個放任狀況之下讓他去存了第一桶的債務而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活\n所以我建議啊因為今天是沒有中央銀行來我建議我們相關的這些財經主管\n道遠我必須要說明我只是回答您的問題我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視\n王煌威委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.874 --> 00:04.996\n有請黃主委\n\n00:16.314 --> 00:32.688\n您的任期即將屆滿但是呢在我們的金管會事上還有很多的相關重要的法令其實或者一些制度都還沒有正式的上路剛才您提到的有關於我們的一些法案\n\n00:36.411 --> 00:37.031\n在6月上路,雖然這個時間是一個新舊政府的交接,\n\n00:57.879 --> 01:12.283\n未來我們這些社群平台上面的這些詐騙的實名制那目前所能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度?Google已經有了Google今年年初已經有了\n\n01:21.189 --> 01:22.269\nGoogle跟Meta\n\n01:40.942 --> 02:03.209\n對,而且我跟您報告,打詐專法應該也會盡量在這個會期送到大院來,我的了解。本來是在幾月?這個不是我決定,但是我知道流程上是希望盡快回應大家的期待。對,因為我們上次去經營管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分嘛,所以如果在這個會期是在6月底前可以進來嗎?\n\n02:04.605 --> 02:24.204\n報告委員,我沒有這個層級去回答,是行政院要跟...另外,其實我想這一次我們金管會的新任主委彭金龍,我知道,其實我認識他也很早,那時候他其實就是在當年的財政部,然後也有在金管會,那他是保選為主,你覺得\n\n02:25.885 --> 02:39.736\n未來我們的保險業我認為今天找澎金融事實上是針對我們未來保險業會面對包含國際的會計準則我們要接軌其實會對我們的業者有非常非常大的衝擊\n\n02:40.797 --> 03:03.868\n所以我覺得對主委來說另外一方面要恭喜你的至少你可以全身而退在你的這個任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件可是接下來就是有關於我們的金融我們的保險他馬上就要面對國際會計準則你覺得新任的主委能不能面應對這樣的一個新的情勢\n\n03:06.502 --> 03:30.336\n其實跟您報告接軌不是這一兩年從更早2018、19就開始談那我其實這幾年我的原則考慮國情循序漸進差異管理誘因機制跟定情檢討已經讓現在的業者有三階段逐步降低他的壓力那當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法或是有些需要去調整我想我們都尊重\n\n03:31.851 --> 03:32.272\n財政部經濟部次長\n\n03:46.749 --> 04:14.892\n主委部長還有次長今天我們的專案報告針對融資公司的亂象但是事實上呢隨著整個的這種情勢的這個變化那麼融資公司除了它一個傳統的這個融資之外什麼像車貸啊等等之外其實呢現在新型的這種其實它做的就是過去我們所認知是貸款的業務的型態是越來越多\n\n04:15.592 --> 04:17.954\n那我在這邊要特別提到就是BMPL因為現在我知道金管會那時候還請三大這些租賃公司來喝茶希望能夠針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控可是事實上\n\n04:37.952 --> 05:04.995\n我們帶租賃公司可能來的最多的就是有最多的亂象、糾紛或者民意代表接到最多的陳情應該都是像個人的車就是車貸的部分或者一些法人融資事實上BNPL在三大租賃公司的業務量其實是不多的那反而是現在有很多並不是租賃公司他同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL\n\n05:06.196 --> 05:32.877\n現在問題是你比如說你融資公司因為他上市貴你還可以透過這個那個證交所來去對他做一些管理可是現在有這麼多的業者有的甚至比如說我開補習班我現在就在做我是電商我就在做而且電商互相還要搶生意因為你在這家電商去買的話你沒有做BMPL那你可能你的競爭力就不夠那所以\n\n05:35.158 --> 05:54.348\n這個影響所及就是辦理的機構公司已經完早就不限於我們所理解的註定公司了然後很多的業者都可以做但是我們卻沒有法可以管所以我想請問一下在這個BMPL的部分\n\n05:55.308 --> 06:24.708\n是不是我們現在的監管太落後還是呢這些的手法太前進所以這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一個管理或者牽制說實在我們三大的助力工大家對他們有很多的質疑可是他們上市櫃公司還可以是有管道可以去做限制的那所以在這邊呢其實我不曉得我們下一頁有嗎因為我有注意到對不起往前面\n\n06:27.390 --> 06:40.240\n中央銀行曾經示警就是BNPL可能成為卡債2.0對於很多年輕朋友他們可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況那時候很多銀行業者都知道當時就發行現金卡造成很多個人的債務\n\n06:48.547 --> 07:13.024\n就是在台高築甚至呢其實都影響他的一生可能他好幾未來的十年他都是在怎麼樣去協調卡在去過日子我們做民意代表我們也常常做這個協調非常痛苦可是現在我們好不容易卡在當年的卡在風波那個已經把它渡過了現在我們眼看著另外一個卡在風波\n\n07:14.145 --> 07:27.316\n就是當年像當年的卡在風波是一樣的所以這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式有沒有任何的解決方式我想請部長跟主委跟次長來說明一下\n\n07:32.452 --> 07:50.231\n報告委員,依目前的法律規定公司的管理上他有資本充實原則不得超過他的禁止的40%那如果說他今天去做這個BNPL裡面的借貸超過他公司禁止40%他是違法的,這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送\n\n07:51.055 --> 07:52.055\n主委來講一下好了\n\n08:20.192 --> 08:35.354\n現在我們做的不是只有三大我們銀行局找過一些外商的BMPL公司瞭解他的model但是發覺比較重要的是這些三大主任公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情所以我們從這方面重要性原則下手去管理\n\n08:35.805 --> 08:58.317\n所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手對不對我們資源的配置上先以最有效率的方式大型公司他確實三大猴子我剛才講了其實這三大助力BMP業務其實在他的業務量真的不大的但是現在有很多新興的報告委員車代有喔車代有三大猴子講的其實有一家就是在做車代的東西\n\n08:59.366 --> 09:02.527\n我跟您報告我們銀行局找過一家外商他做PNPL最多5000塊\n\n09:26.718 --> 09:26.858\n報告委員\n\n09:41.676 --> 10:03.541\n金管會本來就要有優化意識任何事情都要從小處著眼去了解有沒有問題我沒有說不會有風險但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理用領頭羊的方式要主任公會通過準則至於說BMPR的部分我們也會循序去處理\n\n10:04.773 --> 10:17.898\n我認為啊其實不只是說沒有三大租賃公司當然這個因為他還有其他的包含他這裡面違約金太高他的利息其實都已經超過民法按照什麼違約金啊違約利息\n\n10:19.386 --> 10:48.386\n重點是BNPL我覺得現在這個形態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕他完全沒有任何的真性可言嘛對不對那你只要你去買東西你就是可以hold付款那麼我們擔心的是未來年輕人我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金結果我們是在這樣的一個放任狀況之下讓他去存了第一桶的債務而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活\n\n10:48.826 --> 10:51.047\n所以我建議啊因為今天是沒有中央銀行來我建議我們相關的這些財經主管\n\n11:07.517 --> 11:08.798\n道遠我必須要說明我只是回答您的問題我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視\n\n11:31.971 --> 11:32.211\n王煌威委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.874,"end":4.996,"text":"有請黃主委"},{"start":16.314,"end":32.688,"text":"您的任期即將屆滿但是呢在我們的金管會事上還有很多的相關重要的法令其實或者一些制度都還沒有正式的上路剛才您提到的有關於我們的一些法案"},{"start":36.411,"end":37.031,"text":"在6月上路,雖然這個時間是一個新舊政府的交接,"},{"start":57.879,"end":72.283,"text":"未來我們這些社群平台上面的這些詐騙的實名制那目前所能夠掌握到的是什麼樣的進度?Google已經有了Google今年年初已經有了"},{"start":81.189,"end":82.269,"text":"Google跟Meta"},{"start":100.942,"end":123.209,"text":"對,而且我跟您報告,打詐專法應該也會盡量在這個會期送到大院來,我的了解。本來是在幾月?這個不是我決定,但是我知道流程上是希望盡快回應大家的期待。對,因為我們上次去經營管會的時候特別有談到打詐專法的部分嘛,所以如果在這個會期是在6月底前可以進來嗎?"},{"start":124.605,"end":144.204,"text":"報告委員,我沒有這個層級去回答,是行政院要跟...另外,其實我想這一次我們金管會的新任主委彭金龍,我知道,其實我認識他也很早,那時候他其實就是在當年的財政部,然後也有在金管會,那他是保選為主,你覺得"},{"start":145.885,"end":159.736,"text":"未來我們的保險業我認為今天找澎金融事實上是針對我們未來保險業會面對包含國際的會計準則我們要接軌其實會對我們的業者有非常非常大的衝擊"},{"start":160.797,"end":183.868,"text":"所以我覺得對主委來說另外一方面要恭喜你的至少你可以全身而退在你的這個任內沒有什麼重大的金融風暴事件可是接下來就是有關於我們的金融我們的保險他馬上就要面對國際會計準則你覺得新任的主委能不能面應對這樣的一個新的情勢"},{"start":186.502,"end":210.336,"text":"其實跟您報告接軌不是這一兩年從更早2018、19就開始談那我其實這幾年我的原則考慮國情循序漸進差異管理誘因機制跟定情檢討已經讓現在的業者有三階段逐步降低他的壓力那當然新的主委一定對這方面有新的想法或是有些需要去調整我想我們都尊重"},{"start":211.851,"end":212.272,"text":"財政部經濟部次長"},{"start":226.749,"end":254.892,"text":"主委部長還有次長今天我們的專案報告針對融資公司的亂象但是事實上呢隨著整個的這種情勢的這個變化那麼融資公司除了它一個傳統的這個融資之外什麼像車貸啊等等之外其實呢現在新型的這種其實它做的就是過去我們所認知是貸款的業務的型態是越來越多"},{"start":255.592,"end":257.954,"text":"那我在這邊要特別提到就是BMPL因為現在我知道金管會那時候還請三大這些租賃公司來喝茶希望能夠針對融資公司的亂象能夠做一些管控可是事實上"},{"start":277.952,"end":304.995,"text":"我們帶租賃公司可能來的最多的就是有最多的亂象、糾紛或者民意代表接到最多的陳情應該都是像個人的車就是車貸的部分或者一些法人融資事實上BNPL在三大租賃公司的業務量其實是不多的那反而是現在有很多並不是租賃公司他同樣的外面所有的人都可以做BNPL"},{"start":306.196,"end":332.877,"text":"現在問題是你比如說你融資公司因為他上市貴你還可以透過這個那個證交所來去對他做一些管理可是現在有這麼多的業者有的甚至比如說我開補習班我現在就在做我是電商我就在做而且電商互相還要搶生意因為你在這家電商去買的話你沒有做BMPL那你可能你的競爭力就不夠那所以"},{"start":335.158,"end":354.348,"text":"這個影響所及就是辦理的機構公司已經完早就不限於我們所理解的註定公司了然後很多的業者都可以做但是我們卻沒有法可以管所以我想請問一下在這個BMPL的部分"},{"start":355.308,"end":384.708,"text":"是不是我們現在的監管太落後還是呢這些的手法太前進所以這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一個管理或者牽制說實在我們三大的助力工大家對他們有很多的質疑可是他們上市櫃公司還可以是有管道可以去做限制的那所以在這邊呢其實我不曉得我們下一頁有嗎因為我有注意到對不起往前面"},{"start":387.39,"end":400.24,"text":"中央銀行曾經示警就是BNPL可能成為卡債2.0對於很多年輕朋友他們可能不知道當年的卡債風波是什麼樣的狀況那時候很多銀行業者都知道當時就發行現金卡造成很多個人的債務"},{"start":408.547,"end":433.024,"text":"就是在台高築甚至呢其實都影響他的一生可能他好幾未來的十年他都是在怎麼樣去協調卡在去過日子我們做民意代表我們也常常做這個協調非常痛苦可是現在我們好不容易卡在當年的卡在風波那個已經把它渡過了現在我們眼看著另外一個卡在風波"},{"start":434.145,"end":447.316,"text":"就是當年像當年的卡在風波是一樣的所以這部分我們到底有沒有任何的監管的方式有沒有任何的解決方式我想請部長跟主委跟次長來說明一下"},{"start":452.452,"end":470.231,"text":"報告委員,依目前的法律規定公司的管理上他有資本充實原則不得超過他的禁止的40%那如果說他今天去做這個BNPL裡面的借貸超過他公司禁止40%他是違法的,這個部分我們就可以來調查和移送"},{"start":471.055,"end":472.055,"text":"主委來講一下好了"},{"start":500.192,"end":515.354,"text":"現在我們做的不是只有三大我們銀行局找過一些外商的BMPL公司瞭解他的model但是發覺比較重要的是這些三大主任公司下面的一些子孫公司做的事情所以我們從這方面重要性原則下手去管理"},{"start":515.805,"end":538.317,"text":"所以你現在還是只能從比較大的去著手對不對我們資源的配置上先以最有效率的方式大型公司他確實三大猴子我剛才講了其實這三大助力BMP業務其實在他的業務量真的不大的但是現在有很多新興的報告委員車代有喔車代有三大猴子講的其實有一家就是在做車代的東西"},{"start":539.366,"end":542.527,"text":"我跟您報告我們銀行局找過一家外商他做PNPL最多5000塊"},{"start":566.718,"end":566.858,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":581.676,"end":603.541,"text":"金管會本來就要有優化意識任何事情都要從小處著眼去了解有沒有問題我沒有說不會有風險但是我覺得我們在處理上要漸進式的我們要從重要性原則上抓最大可能發生的部分先去處理用領頭羊的方式要主任公會通過準則至於說BMPR的部分我們也會循序去處理"},{"start":604.773,"end":617.898,"text":"我認為啊其實不只是說沒有三大租賃公司當然這個因為他還有其他的包含他這裡面違約金太高他的利息其實都已經超過民法按照什麼違約金啊違約利息"},{"start":619.386,"end":648.386,"text":"重點是BNPL我覺得現在這個形態真的比以前的現金卡更可怕他完全沒有任何的真性可言嘛對不對那你只要你去買東西你就是可以hold付款那麼我們擔心的是未來年輕人我們都希望他們能夠提早去存第一桶金結果我們是在這樣的一個放任狀況之下讓他去存了第一桶的債務而且可能影響他未來五年或十年的生活"},{"start":648.826,"end":651.047,"text":"所以我建議啊因為今天是沒有中央銀行來我建議我們相關的這些財經主管"},{"start":667.517,"end":668.798,"text":"道遠我必須要說明我只是回答您的問題我並沒有說央行的意見我們不重視"},{"start":691.971,"end":692.211,"text":"王煌威委員的質詢"}]}}}}