{"id":151253,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151253","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627d602d2287a9e8d7ccf744a9f110b3b1fc5dab72e655c1c94bbaac45826d34c475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:40:55 - 10:53:23","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、行政院消費者保護處就「如何改善我國融資公司因缺乏監管所衍生之社會亂象，以穩定金融市場並保障消費者權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請內政部警政署、法務部列席備詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-8"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":748,"end_time":"2024-04-17T10:53:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T10:40:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":528,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時40分）謝謝主席。請財政部部長，還有經濟部次長、金管會主委。"],["主席：請莊部長、陳次長、黃主委。"],["賴委員惠員：法務部副司長。"],["主席：法務部。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["陳次長正祺：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，今天針對這個專題報告，我們共同來討論租賃公司是不是只有BNPL的問題，其實問題相當的多，也相當的嚴重。融資公司在各地的延滯率都很高，這個是大家知道的，我以中租迪和今年初法說會上面的簡報來講，中租在臺灣的延滯率高達2.3%，相較之下，我們國內的銀行在12月底的逾放款比例僅有0.1%左右，它重要的市場不管是在中國還是在東協裡頭，延滯率更高達快要4%。在這裡請教次長，這個延滯率代表的是什麼意思？"],["陳次長正祺：以我的理解，延滯率指的是屆期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況，就表示它的風險是比較高一點。"],["賴委員惠員：風險是比較高的，次長，沒有還的話，會怎麼樣來處理呢？"],["陳次長正祺：我們在協處過程中，消費者去貸款之後，他有時候希望能夠展期，我們會協助他跟銀行或者租賃公司來協商，看是不是能夠展期。"],["賴委員惠員：他來展延清償的時間。"],["陳次長正祺：是。"],["賴委員惠員：接著我要請問金管會主委，如果我們知道租賃業者會透過展延清償的這種方式來美化它的財務，金管會有沒有掌握這樣的資訊呢？對於這樣的不良資產，還有不正常的放款，你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前我們的瞭解，大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多，但是因為這個裡面除了看資產品質外，還要看它的利差，有的人的模式是它的利差如果大到足以cover這些延滯放款，可能打消的話，他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式，所以要看幾個數據。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，如果像我們國內的銀行可不可以這樣做呢？如果當它的展延、它的清償方式，它還不了的時候怎麼辦呢？你們有逐條去檢視它的……"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，跟委員報告，銀行是非常嚴謹的，逾期放款、催收款、呆帳處理辦法，那個程序都有……"],["賴委員惠員：沒有錯，我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹，相對的，你們針對租賃公司有沒有這麼嚴謹呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：租賃公司目前沒有對它這個授信的細節部分去做規範，因為基本上它沒有吸收社會大眾資金，對銀行會那麼嚴謹，是因為它吸收社會大眾資金。"],["賴委員惠員：租賃公司沒有收到我們社會大眾的資金嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：租賃機構的錢是來自於金融機構的授信，它沒有直接向社會大眾……"],["賴委員惠員：所以它左手搬到右手去的話，我們金管會就不管了？可以不管嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前是沒有相關的法律基礎去管。"],["賴委員惠員：無法可管啦！謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：我想在這裡再請問一下，次長，整個中租迪和在中國有多少的假交易，你們有辦法查嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：報告委員，這個部分我們沒有辦法查。"],["賴委員惠員：沒有辦法查嘛！沒有辦法查的時候，存保基金還可以去救銀行所有發生的特別狀況，如果像租賃公司所發生的這一些金融狀況，沒有辦法查，也沒有辦法去救它的時候，那該怎麼辦呢？"],["陳次長正祺：報告委員，經濟部的立場是保護消費者，我們不是要保護租賃公司，所以如果消費者在……"],["賴委員惠員：租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢？"],["陳次長正祺：如果他們之間有爭議，經濟部的立場是保護消費者，法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者。至於租賃公司會不會造成系統性的風險，就要看租賃公司的資金來源會不會造成系統性的風險，如果是租賃公司自己很有錢，它倒閉了，那是租賃公司個別公司的問題，但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講的，如果它的錢是來自於大眾資金，那我想金管會會來管理。"],["賴委員惠員：那我再請金管會，我想次長講得非常清楚，我們看到，租賃公司有沒有放高利貸？有沒有超過22倍？有沒有違反土建融的限制？有沒有經過第三地的洗錢，把我們的錢進到中國去？這個就是租賃公司，它就是最大的無牌高利貸公司。我在這裡要請問主委，我們有法可管嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，如果是金管會主管的金融機構或是金控轉投資的部分，這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管，但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投資，是一般民間，您剛才提到的那一家公司，我們沒有辦法直接去管。"],["賴委員惠員：沒有辦法直接管。"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是因為它是發生在中國大陸，只要不要在系統風險傳染到臺灣，基本上對臺灣的金融體系是安全的。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，可是它的錢是從公股銀行搬去的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：跟委員報告，我的資料不見得正確，我剛剛報告過，剛剛局長說，從公股銀行過去的大概差不多200億左右，其他是在大陸就地貸款的。"],["賴委員惠員：不是、不是，絕對不是這樣子。我想由財政部部長來回答這個問題，本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚地問過你了，從帳面上查得到的，這個租賃公司從八大公股銀行裡頭已經借貸一千三百多億了，剛才主委又講了，他說查得到的其實只有200億，為什麼數據上會有這樣的落差，顯然就是銀行沒有辦法逐筆去檢查到底你放款的錢的用途在哪裡，那該怎麼辦呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們八家公股行庫貸放給融資租賃公司的總金額目前是1,359億，您剛剛提的200億是指在大陸地區的，但是主委剛剛有說，在大陸地區的其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去貸放，跟臺灣這邊我們公股行庫貸放其實是不同的來源。"],["賴委員惠員：這個繞來繞去，大家其實都已經知道問題的嚴重性，只是沒有辦法很清楚地去講說這個就是大家共同的責任，我們一定要去正視這個問題，它顯然是一個很大的困境、很大的金融危機呈現在我們的社會上。","三大業者的貸款戶已經變成徵信的一個死角，那要怎麼辦呢？甚至有很多租賃公司要求建商，來借錢的時候還要採購它老闆私人所開設的一個產品，這個產品是什麼？是保健的食品，它強迫客戶採購特定的產品、商品，它有沒有涉及到背信，還有涉及到圖利呢？這個我要請教法務部，這樣強迫客戶採購老闆私人的產品，就是我這個老闆自己推出的一些保健食品的話，這樣有沒有涉及對公司的掏空，有沒有涉及到背信跟圖利呢？"],["簡副司長美慧：是不是會構成刑法第三百四十二條背信罪，或者是刑法瀆職罪章的圖利罪，又或者是貪污治罪條例裡面所講的圖利罪，這個部分要按照具體的個案事實，還有相關證據來判斷。"],["賴委員惠員：當然，我知道你會這樣回答我，他就是真實的要求要借貸的公司必須再附帶買生技產品，這是真實的，這類個案太多了。我們知道甚至在中國也發生很多類似的案件，就是借錢還要綁著買保健品。中租迪和跨足了生醫保健，就是「仲安家」，大家都非常清楚，甚至它還在國內有名的經濟雜誌創造了很多故事，讓大家把這家公司看成像一個成功的勝利組。我們是有法可管，還是無法可管？這個是大家必須很嚴肅地來考慮的問題，這樣左躲右閃，不是辦法。當這個案子產生這麼大的社會危機，大家竟然還是束手無策！業者無法無天，誰要來管？","臺北市租賃公會訂了一個自律規範，可是有這五條規範真的就能自律嗎？顯然是非常的空洞，短短的幾行怎麼樣去執行？我想這只是給委員一個交代，如果委員可以這樣照單全收，我們也是愧責。不管是區域，還是不分區的委員都有社會責任，自律規範沒有禁止放款給這些孩子。這些孩子出社會，當一臺摩托車可以借到30萬，讓他毫無社會經驗就承擔了這麼多的負債，大家必須非常嚴肅地來看待這個事情。自律規範沒有重點，年輕人繼續受害，違反也不處罰，這種東西有自律嗎？顯然毫無自律！我在這裡要再提醒各位，本席要求金管會在1個月內跟業者完成自律規範並且實施；金管會在自律規範實施以前，應該要求業者下架未揭露利率的廣告，或跟數位部討論強制下架；金管會應該重新審查業者延滯率計算方式跟數據，確認有沒有涉及美化財報。拜託金管會在1個月內提出書面報告，謝謝，拜託主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我們朝這個方向去處理，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員質詢。待會兒李坤城委員質詢後，我們休息10分鐘。","接著請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-8","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","羅明才","林楚茵","洪孟楷","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 121.195, \"end\": 121.355, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 121.355, \"end\": 121.556, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 121.556, \"end\": 121.936, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 121.936, \"end\": 122.136, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 122.136, \"end\": 122.317, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 122.317, \"end\": 122.557, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"掌\", \"start\": 122.557, \"end\": 122.777, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"握\", \"start\": 122.777, \"end\": 123.278, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.278, \"end\": 123.398, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 123.398, \"end\": 124.119, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 124.119, \"end\": 124.42, 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00:00:43,812\n部長我想今天針對的這個專題報告我們共同的來討論租賃公司是不是只有BMPL的一個問題其實問題相當的多也相當的嚴重那至於融資公司在各地的研製力都很高這個是大家知道的我以中租抵合就是今年初的法說會上面的一個簡報來講\n\n3\n00:00:45,453 --> 00:01:14,048\n中租在臺灣的一個研制力它高達2.3%相較之下我們國內的銀行在12月底的預換款比例僅有0.1到這個0.1左右那重要的市場不管是在這個中國還是在東協裡頭研制力更高達快要到4%所以在這裡請教次長就是說這個研制力代表的是什麼意思\n\n4\n00:01:16,553 --> 00:01:28,772\n延遲率應該,如果我的理解是指的是這個借期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況,那麼就表示它風險是比較高一點。風險是比較高的,那沒有還的話,次長會怎麼樣來處理呢?\n\n5\n00:01:31,574 --> 00:01:59,934\n我們在協處過程中就是消費者去貸款之後他有時候覺得這個希望能夠展期我們會協助他跟銀行或者這個租賃公司來協商看是不是能夠展期他來展言這個就是清場的那個時間那接著我要請問我們金管會主委如果就是說我們知道租賃業者他會透過展言清場的這種方式來美化他的財務\n\n6\n00:02:01,195 --> 00:02:10,608\n那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?\n\n7\n00:02:12,062 --> 00:02:33,619\n目前我們的了解跟委員我想尤其是臺灣部分應該是大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多但是因為這裡面不是只是除了看這個資產品只要看他的利差有的人的模式是他利差如果大到足以cover這些研製放緩可能打消的話他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式\n\n8\n00:02:34,219 --> 00:03:02,602\n主委我想就是說如果像我們國內的銀行可以不可以這樣做呢?如果他的一個展言他的清場的方式他還不了的時候怎麼辦呢?你有主條主條的去那個檢視他的一個那個?有,跟委員報告銀行是非常嚴謹的預期放款、催收款、代帳處理辦法那個程序沒有錯,我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹那相對的你們針對的主任公司有沒有這麼嚴謹啊?\n\n9\n00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:23,059\n主任公司目前沒有對他這個受信的細節部分去做規範因為基本上他沒有吸收社會大眾資金銀行會那麼嚴謹是因為他吸收社會大眾資金主任公司沒有那個就是收到了那個我們社會大眾的一個資金嗎主任公司的錢是來自於\n\n10\n00:03:24,332 --> 00:03:26,793\n市長,整個中租抵合在中國有多少的交易,你們有辦法查嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:54,298 --> 00:04:23,268\n市長報告委員這個部分我們沒有辦法查沒有辦法查嗎好這個沒有辦法查的時候我們會不會就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這個村保基金還可以來救銀行他所有花生的一個這個特別的一個狀況那如果像住院公司他所花生的這一些金融的狀況沒有辦法查也沒有辦法去就是去救他的時候那該怎麼辦呢\n\n12\n00:04:25,789 --> 00:04:34,934\n報告委員經濟部的立場是保護消費者我們不是要保護租賃公司所以如果消費者在那租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢\n\n13\n00:04:36,451 --> 00:05:03,200\n我們如果他們之間有爭議經濟部立場是保護消費者我們法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者那至於租賃公司會造成系統性的風險的話就要看租賃公司資金來源會不會造成系統性如果是租賃公司自己很有錢他倒閉了那是租賃公司個別公司問題但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講如果他的錢是來自於大眾資金那我想金管會來管理\n\n14\n00:05:03,843 --> 00:05:28,157\n是,好,那我再請金管會那我想這個次長講得非常清楚就是說在下一頁我們看到了就是說主任公司他在有沒有換高利貸有沒有超過22倍有沒有違反土建融的一個限制有沒有經過第三地的一個洗錢把我們的錢進到中國去\n\n15\n00:05:30,138 --> 00:05:50,732\n報告委員如果是金融金管會主管的金融機構或是金控他轉投資的部分這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管\n\n16\n00:05:52,406 --> 00:06:08,752\n但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投只是一般民間你剛提到的那一家公司我們沒有辦法直接去管但是因為它是發生在中國大陸只要不會在系統風險傳染到台灣基本上對台灣的金融體系是安全的\n\n17\n00:06:13,666 --> 00:06:39,014\n可是跟委員報告我的資料不見得正確我剛剛報告過從公股銀行過去的剛剛局長說大概差不多200億左右其他就是在大陸就地貸款的不是不是絕對不是這樣子公股銀行我想在這個那個我想由財政部部長來回答這個話在本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚的問過你了就是說所有從我們八大公股銀行\n\n18\n00:06:40,394 --> 00:07:04,916\n這個主任公司從八大公股銀行裡頭你已經就是借貸就是你帳面上查得到的就是已經一千三百多億了那這個剛才主委又講了他說如果查得到的其實只有兩百億這個為什麼這個數據上會有這樣子的一個落差呢顯然就是說銀行他沒有辦法足比的去檢查\n\n19\n00:07:05,977 --> 00:07:34,440\n到底你你晃了的錢到底他的用途在哪裡那該怎麼辦呢跟委員報告也就是說我們八家公股行庫帶放給融資註定公司的總金額目前來說是1359億但是您剛剛提的200億是指說在大陸地區的但是主委剛剛有說大陸地區他其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去帶放在跟台灣這邊我們公股行庫帶放其實是是不同的來源\n\n20\n00:07:36,495 --> 00:07:58,372\n所以我想這個繞來繞去大家其實都已經知道問題的一個嚴重性只是就是沒有辦法就是很清楚的去講說這個就是大家共同的一個責任那為什麼我們一定要去正視這個問題他顯然是一個很大的一個困境很大的一個金融的危機呈現在我們的社會上\n\n21\n00:07:59,113 --> 00:08:11,426\n那這個三大業者的一個貸款戶已經變成了真信的一個死角那要怎麼辦呢甚至有很多主任公司要求建商你來借錢的時候你還要採購我老闆\n\n22\n00:08:14,509 --> 00:08:15,109\n大陸的消息\n\n23\n00:08:38,551 --> 00:08:59,260\n就是說在這樣子的一個就是強迫客戶採購就是老闆的一個私人的一個產品就是說我這個老闆我自己推出了一些就是我的保健食品的話那這樣子有沒有涉及就是掏空這個對公司的一個掏空有沒有涉及到一個背信跟圖令啊\n\n24\n00:09:00,801 --> 00:09:04,684\n當然我知道你會這樣回答我這個已經就是說他就是真實的要求就是你要借貸的這一個公司必須要在護貸買我的這個生技產品了是\n\n25\n00:09:29,315 --> 00:09:45,687\n真實的真實的這個個案太多了個案太多了就是說我們知道就是這個甚至就是在中國也發生了很多類似的這樣的一個那個案件就是你借錢你還要綁著就是要買我的保健品\n\n26\n00:09:47,618 --> 00:10:09,117\n所以在下一頁我想中珠迪河他跨足了生意的保健就是重案家這個大家都是非常清楚了甚至他在我們國內有名的這個經濟雜誌裡頭他還去做了很多創造了很多的一個故事讓大家把他這個公司看了就像一個成功的一個勝利主\n\n27\n00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:17,735\n這個我覺得我們是不是有法可管還是無法可管這個是我們大家必須要就是很\n\n28\n00:10:19,133 --> 00:10:19,153\n委員會長\n\n29\n00:10:41,904 --> 00:10:58,922\n經濟部也列了一個臺北市主任公會訂了一個自立的規範可是這個五條的一個規範真的能自立嗎顯然好像是非常的一個空洞非常的一個空洞端端的幾行怎麼樣去執行我想這個都是\n\n30\n00:11:00,462 --> 00:11:26,209\n這是一個交代,交代給委員可是如果說委員可以這樣子照單前收的話這個我們也是愧則就是我們不管是區域還是部分區的那個委員這樣子的一個社會責任你自立的規範沒有禁止就是要換款的這些孩子這些孩子就是說他在出社會的時候當他一台摩托車他可以借到30萬的時候他就是這樣子\n\n31\n00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:56,570\n毫無就是一個社會經驗他就是變成一個就是就承擔了這麼多的一個負債這個是我們大家必須要就是非常嚴肅的來看待這個事情自立規範沒有重點年輕人繼續受害違反也不處罰這種東西有自立嗎顯然是毫無自立所以在這裡也是要跟各位再提醒那本席要求就是金款會在一個業內跟業者完全\n\n32\n00:11:57,210 --> 00:12:26,252\n致力規範並且實施那金管會在致力規範實施以前應該要要求業者下架還有就是要揭露他的利率的一個廣告跟數位部討論強制的一個下架金管會應該重新審查業者他的研製力的計算的方式跟數據確認是不是涉及他有沒有美化他的財報拜託金管會在一個月內提出書面的報告是我們朝這個方向去處理謝謝\n\n33\n00:12:27,114 --> 00:12:27,134\n好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3355\t11886\t謝謝主席我們請那個財政部部長還有經濟部次長請莊部長、陳次長金管會主委、法務部護士長法務部委員好是\n20569\t43812\t部長我想今天針對的這個專題報告我們共同的來討論租賃公司是不是只有BMPL的一個問題其實問題相當的多也相當的嚴重那至於融資公司在各地的研製力都很高這個是大家知道的我以中租抵合就是今年初的法說會上面的一個簡報來講\n45453\t74048\t中租在臺灣的一個研制力它高達2.3%相較之下我們國內的銀行在12月底的預換款比例僅有0.1到這個0.1左右那重要的市場不管是在這個中國還是在東協裡頭研制力更高達快要到4%所以在這裡請教次長就是說這個研制力代表的是什麼意思\n76553\t88772\t延遲率應該,如果我的理解是指的是這個借期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況,那麼就表示它風險是比較高一點。風險是比較高的,那沒有還的話,次長會怎麼樣來處理呢?\n91574\t119934\t我們在協處過程中就是消費者去貸款之後他有時候覺得這個希望能夠展期我們會協助他跟銀行或者這個租賃公司來協商看是不是能夠展期他來展言這個就是清場的那個時間那接著我要請問我們金管會主委如果就是說我們知道租賃業者他會透過展言清場的這種方式來美化他的財務\n121195\t130608\t那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?\n132062\t153619\t目前我們的了解跟委員我想尤其是臺灣部分應該是大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多但是因為這裡面不是只是除了看這個資產品只要看他的利差有的人的模式是他利差如果大到足以cover這些研製放緩可能打消的話他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式\n154219\t182602\t主委我想就是說如果像我們國內的銀行可以不可以這樣做呢?如果他的一個展言他的清場的方式他還不了的時候怎麼辦呢?你有主條主條的去那個檢視他的一個那個?有,跟委員報告銀行是非常嚴謹的預期放款、催收款、代帳處理辦法那個程序沒有錯,我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹那相對的你們針對的主任公司有沒有這麼嚴謹啊?\n184520\t203059\t主任公司目前沒有對他這個受信的細節部分去做規範因為基本上他沒有吸收社會大眾資金銀行會那麼嚴謹是因為他吸收社會大眾資金主任公司沒有那個就是收到了那個我們社會大眾的一個資金嗎主任公司的錢是來自於\n204332\t206793\t市長,整個中租抵合在中國有多少的交易,你們有辦法查嗎?\n234298\t263268\t市長報告委員這個部分我們沒有辦法查沒有辦法查嗎好這個沒有辦法查的時候我們會不會就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這個村保基金還可以來救銀行他所有花生的一個這個特別的一個狀況那如果像住院公司他所花生的這一些金融的狀況沒有辦法查也沒有辦法去就是去救他的時候那該怎麼辦呢\n265789\t274934\t報告委員經濟部的立場是保護消費者我們不是要保護租賃公司所以如果消費者在那租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢\n276451\t303200\t我們如果他們之間有爭議經濟部立場是保護消費者我們法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者那至於租賃公司會造成系統性的風險的話就要看租賃公司資金來源會不會造成系統性如果是租賃公司自己很有錢他倒閉了那是租賃公司個別公司問題但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講如果他的錢是來自於大眾資金那我想金管會來管理\n303843\t328157\t是,好,那我再請金管會那我想這個次長講得非常清楚就是說在下一頁我們看到了就是說主任公司他在有沒有換高利貸有沒有超過22倍有沒有違反土建融的一個限制有沒有經過第三地的一個洗錢把我們的錢進到中國去\n330138\t350732\t報告委員如果是金融金管會主管的金融機構或是金控他轉投資的部分這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管\n352406\t368752\t但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投只是一般民間你剛提到的那一家公司我們沒有辦法直接去管但是因為它是發生在中國大陸只要不會在系統風險傳染到台灣基本上對台灣的金融體系是安全的\n373666\t399014\t可是跟委員報告我的資料不見得正確我剛剛報告過從公股銀行過去的剛剛局長說大概差不多200億左右其他就是在大陸就地貸款的不是不是絕對不是這樣子公股銀行我想在這個那個我想由財政部部長來回答這個話在本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚的問過你了就是說所有從我們八大公股銀行\n400394\t424916\t這個主任公司從八大公股銀行裡頭你已經就是借貸就是你帳面上查得到的就是已經一千三百多億了那這個剛才主委又講了他說如果查得到的其實只有兩百億這個為什麼這個數據上會有這樣子的一個落差呢顯然就是說銀行他沒有辦法足比的去檢查\n425977\t454440\t到底你你晃了的錢到底他的用途在哪裡那該怎麼辦呢跟委員報告也就是說我們八家公股行庫帶放給融資註定公司的總金額目前來說是1359億但是您剛剛提的200億是指說在大陸地區的但是主委剛剛有說大陸地區他其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去帶放在跟台灣這邊我們公股行庫帶放其實是是不同的來源\n456495\t478372\t所以我想這個繞來繞去大家其實都已經知道問題的一個嚴重性只是就是沒有辦法就是很清楚的去講說這個就是大家共同的一個責任那為什麼我們一定要去正視這個問題他顯然是一個很大的一個困境很大的一個金融的危機呈現在我們的社會上\n479113\t491426\t那這個三大業者的一個貸款戶已經變成了真信的一個死角那要怎麼辦呢甚至有很多主任公司要求建商你來借錢的時候你還要採購我老闆\n494509\t495109\t大陸的消息\n518551\t539260\t就是說在這樣子的一個就是強迫客戶採購就是老闆的一個私人的一個產品就是說我這個老闆我自己推出了一些就是我的保健食品的話那這樣子有沒有涉及就是掏空這個對公司的一個掏空有沒有涉及到一個背信跟圖令啊\n540801\t544684\t當然我知道你會這樣回答我這個已經就是說他就是真實的要求就是你要借貸的這一個公司必須要在護貸買我的這個生技產品了是\n569315\t585687\t真實的真實的這個個案太多了個案太多了就是說我們知道就是這個甚至就是在中國也發生了很多類似的這樣的一個那個案件就是你借錢你還要綁著就是要買我的保健品\n587618\t609117\t所以在下一頁我想中珠迪河他跨足了生意的保健就是重案家這個大家都是非常清楚了甚至他在我們國內有名的這個經濟雜誌裡頭他還去做了很多創造了很多的一個故事讓大家把他這個公司看了就像一個成功的一個勝利主\n610560\t617735\t這個我覺得我們是不是有法可管還是無法可管這個是我們大家必須要就是很\n619133\t619153\t委員會長\n641904\t658922\t經濟部也列了一個臺北市主任公會訂了一個自立的規範可是這個五條的一個規範真的能自立嗎顯然好像是非常的一個空洞非常的一個空洞端端的幾行怎麼樣去執行我想這個都是\n660462\t686209\t這是一個交代,交代給委員可是如果說委員可以這樣子照單前收的話這個我們也是愧則就是我們不管是區域還是部分區的那個委員這樣子的一個社會責任你自立的規範沒有禁止就是要換款的這些孩子這些孩子就是說他在出社會的時候當他一台摩托車他可以借到30萬的時候他就是這樣子\n687509\t716570\t毫無就是一個社會經驗他就是變成一個就是就承擔了這麼多的一個負債這個是我們大家必須要就是非常嚴肅的來看待這個事情自立規範沒有重點年輕人繼續受害違反也不處罰這種東西有自立嗎顯然是毫無自立所以在這裡也是要跟各位再提醒那本席要求就是金款會在一個業內跟業者完全\n717210\t746252\t致力規範並且實施那金管會在致力規範實施以前應該要要求業者下架還有就是要揭露他的利率的一個廣告跟數位部討論強制的一個下架金管會應該重新審查業者他的研製力的計算的方式跟數據確認是不是涉及他有沒有美化他的財報拜託金管會在一個月內提出書面的報告是我們朝這個方向去處理謝謝\n747114\t747134\t好,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請那個財政部部長還有經濟部次長請莊部長、陳次長金管會主委、法務部護士長法務部委員好是\n部長我想今天針對的這個專題報告我們共同的來討論租賃公司是不是只有BMPL的一個問題其實問題相當的多也相當的嚴重那至於融資公司在各地的研製力都很高這個是大家知道的我以中租抵合就是今年初的法說會上面的一個簡報來講\n中租在臺灣的一個研制力它高達2.3%相較之下我們國內的銀行在12月底的預換款比例僅有0.1到這個0.1左右那重要的市場不管是在這個中國還是在東協裡頭研制力更高達快要到4%所以在這裡請教次長就是說這個研制力代表的是什麼意思\n延遲率應該,如果我的理解是指的是這個借期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況,那麼就表示它風險是比較高一點。風險是比較高的,那沒有還的話,次長會怎麼樣來處理呢?\n我們在協處過程中就是消費者去貸款之後他有時候覺得這個希望能夠展期我們會協助他跟銀行或者這個租賃公司來協商看是不是能夠展期他來展言這個就是清場的那個時間那接著我要請問我們金管會主委如果就是說我們知道租賃業者他會透過展言清場的這種方式來美化他的財務\n那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?\n目前我們的了解跟委員我想尤其是臺灣部分應該是大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多但是因為這裡面不是只是除了看這個資產品只要看他的利差有的人的模式是他利差如果大到足以cover這些研製放緩可能打消的話他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式\n主委我想就是說如果像我們國內的銀行可以不可以這樣做呢?如果他的一個展言他的清場的方式他還不了的時候怎麼辦呢?你有主條主條的去那個檢視他的一個那個?有,跟委員報告銀行是非常嚴謹的預期放款、催收款、代帳處理辦法那個程序沒有錯,我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹那相對的你們針對的主任公司有沒有這麼嚴謹啊?\n主任公司目前沒有對他這個受信的細節部分去做規範因為基本上他沒有吸收社會大眾資金銀行會那麼嚴謹是因為他吸收社會大眾資金主任公司沒有那個就是收到了那個我們社會大眾的一個資金嗎主任公司的錢是來自於\n市長,整個中租抵合在中國有多少的交易,你們有辦法查嗎?\n市長報告委員這個部分我們沒有辦法查沒有辦法查嗎好這個沒有辦法查的時候我們會不會就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這個村保基金還可以來救銀行他所有花生的一個這個特別的一個狀況那如果像住院公司他所花生的這一些金融的狀況沒有辦法查也沒有辦法去就是去救他的時候那該怎麼辦呢\n報告委員經濟部的立場是保護消費者我們不是要保護租賃公司所以如果消費者在那租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢\n我們如果他們之間有爭議經濟部立場是保護消費者我們法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者那至於租賃公司會造成系統性的風險的話就要看租賃公司資金來源會不會造成系統性如果是租賃公司自己很有錢他倒閉了那是租賃公司個別公司問題但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講如果他的錢是來自於大眾資金那我想金管會來管理\n是,好,那我再請金管會那我想這個次長講得非常清楚就是說在下一頁我們看到了就是說主任公司他在有沒有換高利貸有沒有超過22倍有沒有違反土建融的一個限制有沒有經過第三地的一個洗錢把我們的錢進到中國去\n報告委員如果是金融金管會主管的金融機構或是金控他轉投資的部分這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管\n但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投只是一般民間你剛提到的那一家公司我們沒有辦法直接去管但是因為它是發生在中國大陸只要不會在系統風險傳染到台灣基本上對台灣的金融體系是安全的\n可是跟委員報告我的資料不見得正確我剛剛報告過從公股銀行過去的剛剛局長說大概差不多200億左右其他就是在大陸就地貸款的不是不是絕對不是這樣子公股銀行我想在這個那個我想由財政部部長來回答這個話在本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚的問過你了就是說所有從我們八大公股銀行\n這個主任公司從八大公股銀行裡頭你已經就是借貸就是你帳面上查得到的就是已經一千三百多億了那這個剛才主委又講了他說如果查得到的其實只有兩百億這個為什麼這個數據上會有這樣子的一個落差呢顯然就是說銀行他沒有辦法足比的去檢查\n到底你你晃了的錢到底他的用途在哪裡那該怎麼辦呢跟委員報告也就是說我們八家公股行庫帶放給融資註定公司的總金額目前來說是1359億但是您剛剛提的200億是指說在大陸地區的但是主委剛剛有說大陸地區他其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去帶放在跟台灣這邊我們公股行庫帶放其實是是不同的來源\n所以我想這個繞來繞去大家其實都已經知道問題的一個嚴重性只是就是沒有辦法就是很清楚的去講說這個就是大家共同的一個責任那為什麼我們一定要去正視這個問題他顯然是一個很大的一個困境很大的一個金融的危機呈現在我們的社會上\n那這個三大業者的一個貸款戶已經變成了真信的一個死角那要怎麼辦呢甚至有很多主任公司要求建商你來借錢的時候你還要採購我老闆\n大陸的消息\n就是說在這樣子的一個就是強迫客戶採購就是老闆的一個私人的一個產品就是說我這個老闆我自己推出了一些就是我的保健食品的話那這樣子有沒有涉及就是掏空這個對公司的一個掏空有沒有涉及到一個背信跟圖令啊\n當然我知道你會這樣回答我這個已經就是說他就是真實的要求就是你要借貸的這一個公司必須要在護貸買我的這個生技產品了是\n真實的真實的這個個案太多了個案太多了就是說我們知道就是這個甚至就是在中國也發生了很多類似的這樣的一個那個案件就是你借錢你還要綁著就是要買我的保健品\n所以在下一頁我想中珠迪河他跨足了生意的保健就是重案家這個大家都是非常清楚了甚至他在我們國內有名的這個經濟雜誌裡頭他還去做了很多創造了很多的一個故事讓大家把他這個公司看了就像一個成功的一個勝利主\n這個我覺得我們是不是有法可管還是無法可管這個是我們大家必須要就是很\n委員會長\n經濟部也列了一個臺北市主任公會訂了一個自立的規範可是這個五條的一個規範真的能自立嗎顯然好像是非常的一個空洞非常的一個空洞端端的幾行怎麼樣去執行我想這個都是\n這是一個交代,交代給委員可是如果說委員可以這樣子照單前收的話這個我們也是愧則就是我們不管是區域還是部分區的那個委員這樣子的一個社會責任你自立的規範沒有禁止就是要換款的這些孩子這些孩子就是說他在出社會的時候當他一台摩托車他可以借到30萬的時候他就是這樣子\n毫無就是一個社會經驗他就是變成一個就是就承擔了這麼多的一個負債這個是我們大家必須要就是非常嚴肅的來看待這個事情自立規範沒有重點年輕人繼續受害違反也不處罰這種東西有自立嗎顯然是毫無自立所以在這裡也是要跟各位再提醒那本席要求就是金款會在一個業內跟業者完全\n致力規範並且實施那金管會在致力規範實施以前應該要要求業者下架還有就是要揭露他的利率的一個廣告跟數位部討論強制的一個下架金管會應該重新審查業者他的研製力的計算的方式跟數據確認是不是涉及他有沒有美化他的財報拜託金管會在一個月內提出書面的報告是我們朝這個方向去處理謝謝\n好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.355 --> 00:11.886\n謝謝主席我們請那個財政部部長還有經濟部次長請莊部長、陳次長金管會主委、法務部護士長法務部委員好是\n\n00:20.569 --> 00:43.812\n部長我想今天針對的這個專題報告我們共同的來討論租賃公司是不是只有BMPL的一個問題其實問題相當的多也相當的嚴重那至於融資公司在各地的研製力都很高這個是大家知道的我以中租抵合就是今年初的法說會上面的一個簡報來講\n\n00:45.453 --> 01:14.048\n中租在臺灣的一個研制力它高達2.3%相較之下我們國內的銀行在12月底的預換款比例僅有0.1到這個0.1左右那重要的市場不管是在這個中國還是在東協裡頭研制力更高達快要到4%所以在這裡請教次長就是說這個研制力代表的是什麼意思\n\n01:16.553 --> 01:28.772\n延遲率應該,如果我的理解是指的是這個借期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況,那麼就表示它風險是比較高一點。風險是比較高的,那沒有還的話,次長會怎麼樣來處理呢?\n\n01:31.574 --> 01:59.934\n我們在協處過程中就是消費者去貸款之後他有時候覺得這個希望能夠展期我們會協助他跟銀行或者這個租賃公司來協商看是不是能夠展期他來展言這個就是清場的那個時間那接著我要請問我們金管會主委如果就是說我們知道租賃業者他會透過展言清場的這種方式來美化他的財務\n\n02:01.195 --> 02:10.608\n那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?\n\n02:12.062 --> 02:33.619\n目前我們的了解跟委員我想尤其是臺灣部分應該是大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多但是因為這裡面不是只是除了看這個資產品只要看他的利差有的人的模式是他利差如果大到足以cover這些研製放緩可能打消的話他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式\n\n02:34.219 --> 03:02.602\n主委我想就是說如果像我們國內的銀行可以不可以這樣做呢?如果他的一個展言他的清場的方式他還不了的時候怎麼辦呢?你有主條主條的去那個檢視他的一個那個?有,跟委員報告銀行是非常嚴謹的預期放款、催收款、代帳處理辦法那個程序沒有錯,我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹那相對的你們針對的主任公司有沒有這麼嚴謹啊?\n\n03:04.520 --> 03:23.059\n主任公司目前沒有對他這個受信的細節部分去做規範因為基本上他沒有吸收社會大眾資金銀行會那麼嚴謹是因為他吸收社會大眾資金主任公司沒有那個就是收到了那個我們社會大眾的一個資金嗎主任公司的錢是來自於\n\n03:24.332 --> 03:26.793\n市長,整個中租抵合在中國有多少的交易,你們有辦法查嗎?\n\n03:54.298 --> 04:23.268\n市長報告委員這個部分我們沒有辦法查沒有辦法查嗎好這個沒有辦法查的時候我們會不會就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這個村保基金還可以來救銀行他所有花生的一個這個特別的一個狀況那如果像住院公司他所花生的這一些金融的狀況沒有辦法查也沒有辦法去就是去救他的時候那該怎麼辦呢\n\n04:25.789 --> 04:34.934\n報告委員經濟部的立場是保護消費者我們不是要保護租賃公司所以如果消費者在那租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢\n\n04:36.451 --> 05:03.200\n我們如果他們之間有爭議經濟部立場是保護消費者我們法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者那至於租賃公司會造成系統性的風險的話就要看租賃公司資金來源會不會造成系統性如果是租賃公司自己很有錢他倒閉了那是租賃公司個別公司問題但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講如果他的錢是來自於大眾資金那我想金管會來管理\n\n05:03.843 --> 05:28.157\n是,好,那我再請金管會那我想這個次長講得非常清楚就是說在下一頁我們看到了就是說主任公司他在有沒有換高利貸有沒有超過22倍有沒有違反土建融的一個限制有沒有經過第三地的一個洗錢把我們的錢進到中國去\n\n05:30.138 --> 05:50.732\n報告委員如果是金融金管會主管的金融機構或是金控他轉投資的部分這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管\n\n05:52.406 --> 06:08.752\n但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投只是一般民間你剛提到的那一家公司我們沒有辦法直接去管但是因為它是發生在中國大陸只要不會在系統風險傳染到台灣基本上對台灣的金融體系是安全的\n\n06:13.666 --> 06:39.014\n可是跟委員報告我的資料不見得正確我剛剛報告過從公股銀行過去的剛剛局長說大概差不多200億左右其他就是在大陸就地貸款的不是不是絕對不是這樣子公股銀行我想在這個那個我想由財政部部長來回答這個話在本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚的問過你了就是說所有從我們八大公股銀行\n\n06:40.394 --> 07:04.916\n這個主任公司從八大公股銀行裡頭你已經就是借貸就是你帳面上查得到的就是已經一千三百多億了那這個剛才主委又講了他說如果查得到的其實只有兩百億這個為什麼這個數據上會有這樣子的一個落差呢顯然就是說銀行他沒有辦法足比的去檢查\n\n07:05.977 --> 07:34.440\n到底你你晃了的錢到底他的用途在哪裡那該怎麼辦呢跟委員報告也就是說我們八家公股行庫帶放給融資註定公司的總金額目前來說是1359億但是您剛剛提的200億是指說在大陸地區的但是主委剛剛有說大陸地區他其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去帶放在跟台灣這邊我們公股行庫帶放其實是是不同的來源\n\n07:36.495 --> 07:58.372\n所以我想這個繞來繞去大家其實都已經知道問題的一個嚴重性只是就是沒有辦法就是很清楚的去講說這個就是大家共同的一個責任那為什麼我們一定要去正視這個問題他顯然是一個很大的一個困境很大的一個金融的危機呈現在我們的社會上\n\n07:59.113 --> 08:11.426\n那這個三大業者的一個貸款戶已經變成了真信的一個死角那要怎麼辦呢甚至有很多主任公司要求建商你來借錢的時候你還要採購我老闆\n\n08:14.509 --> 08:15.109\n大陸的消息\n\n08:38.551 --> 08:59.260\n就是說在這樣子的一個就是強迫客戶採購就是老闆的一個私人的一個產品就是說我這個老闆我自己推出了一些就是我的保健食品的話那這樣子有沒有涉及就是掏空這個對公司的一個掏空有沒有涉及到一個背信跟圖令啊\n\n09:00.801 --> 09:04.684\n當然我知道你會這樣回答我這個已經就是說他就是真實的要求就是你要借貸的這一個公司必須要在護貸買我的這個生技產品了是\n\n09:29.315 --> 09:45.687\n真實的真實的這個個案太多了個案太多了就是說我們知道就是這個甚至就是在中國也發生了很多類似的這樣的一個那個案件就是你借錢你還要綁著就是要買我的保健品\n\n09:47.618 --> 10:09.117\n所以在下一頁我想中珠迪河他跨足了生意的保健就是重案家這個大家都是非常清楚了甚至他在我們國內有名的這個經濟雜誌裡頭他還去做了很多創造了很多的一個故事讓大家把他這個公司看了就像一個成功的一個勝利主\n\n10:10.560 --> 10:17.735\n這個我覺得我們是不是有法可管還是無法可管這個是我們大家必須要就是很\n\n10:19.133 --> 10:19.153\n委員會長\n\n10:41.904 --> 10:58.922\n經濟部也列了一個臺北市主任公會訂了一個自立的規範可是這個五條的一個規範真的能自立嗎顯然好像是非常的一個空洞非常的一個空洞端端的幾行怎麼樣去執行我想這個都是\n\n11:00.462 --> 11:26.209\n這是一個交代,交代給委員可是如果說委員可以這樣子照單前收的話這個我們也是愧則就是我們不管是區域還是部分區的那個委員這樣子的一個社會責任你自立的規範沒有禁止就是要換款的這些孩子這些孩子就是說他在出社會的時候當他一台摩托車他可以借到30萬的時候他就是這樣子\n\n11:27.509 --> 11:56.570\n毫無就是一個社會經驗他就是變成一個就是就承擔了這麼多的一個負債這個是我們大家必須要就是非常嚴肅的來看待這個事情自立規範沒有重點年輕人繼續受害違反也不處罰這種東西有自立嗎顯然是毫無自立所以在這裡也是要跟各位再提醒那本席要求就是金款會在一個業內跟業者完全\n\n11:57.210 --> 12:26.252\n致力規範並且實施那金管會在致力規範實施以前應該要要求業者下架還有就是要揭露他的利率的一個廣告跟數位部討論強制的一個下架金管會應該重新審查業者他的研製力的計算的方式跟數據確認是不是涉及他有沒有美化他的財報拜託金管會在一個月內提出書面的報告是我們朝這個方向去處理謝謝\n\n12:27.114 --> 12:27.134\n好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.355,"end":11.886,"text":"謝謝主席我們請那個財政部部長還有經濟部次長請莊部長、陳次長金管會主委、法務部護士長法務部委員好是"},{"start":20.569,"end":43.812,"text":"部長我想今天針對的這個專題報告我們共同的來討論租賃公司是不是只有BMPL的一個問題其實問題相當的多也相當的嚴重那至於融資公司在各地的研製力都很高這個是大家知道的我以中租抵合就是今年初的法說會上面的一個簡報來講"},{"start":45.453,"end":74.048,"text":"中租在臺灣的一個研制力它高達2.3%相較之下我們國內的銀行在12月底的預換款比例僅有0.1到這個0.1左右那重要的市場不管是在這個中國還是在東協裡頭研制力更高達快要到4%所以在這裡請教次長就是說這個研制力代表的是什麼意思"},{"start":76.553,"end":88.772,"text":"延遲率應該,如果我的理解是指的是這個借期沒有辦法還款的這種狀況,那麼就表示它風險是比較高一點。風險是比較高的,那沒有還的話,次長會怎麼樣來處理呢?"},{"start":91.574,"end":119.934,"text":"我們在協處過程中就是消費者去貸款之後他有時候覺得這個希望能夠展期我們會協助他跟銀行或者這個租賃公司來協商看是不是能夠展期他來展言這個就是清場的那個時間那接著我要請問我們金管會主委如果就是說我們知道租賃業者他會透過展言清場的這種方式來美化他的財務"},{"start":121.195,"end":130.608,"text":"那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個資訊呢?對於這樣的一個不良資產還有不正常的一個換款,你們有沒有什麼樣的一個方式呢?"},{"start":132.062,"end":153.619,"text":"目前我們的了解跟委員我想尤其是臺灣部分應該是大陸跟臺灣應該是差不多但是因為這裡面不是只是除了看這個資產品只要看他的利差有的人的模式是他利差如果大到足以cover這些研製放緩可能打消的話他可能覺得還是一個可行的商業模式"},{"start":154.219,"end":182.602,"text":"主委我想就是說如果像我們國內的銀行可以不可以這樣做呢?如果他的一個展言他的清場的方式他還不了的時候怎麼辦呢?你有主條主條的去那個檢視他的一個那個?有,跟委員報告銀行是非常嚴謹的預期放款、催收款、代帳處理辦法那個程序沒有錯,我們當然知道銀行是非常的嚴謹那相對的你們針對的主任公司有沒有這麼嚴謹啊?"},{"start":184.52,"end":203.059,"text":"主任公司目前沒有對他這個受信的細節部分去做規範因為基本上他沒有吸收社會大眾資金銀行會那麼嚴謹是因為他吸收社會大眾資金主任公司沒有那個就是收到了那個我們社會大眾的一個資金嗎主任公司的錢是來自於"},{"start":204.332,"end":206.793,"text":"市長,整個中租抵合在中國有多少的交易,你們有辦法查嗎?"},{"start":234.298,"end":263.268,"text":"市長報告委員這個部分我們沒有辦法查沒有辦法查嗎好這個沒有辦法查的時候我們會不會就是說我們有沒有辦法就是說在這個村保基金還可以來救銀行他所有花生的一個這個特別的一個狀況那如果像住院公司他所花生的這一些金融的狀況沒有辦法查也沒有辦法去就是去救他的時候那該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":265.789,"end":274.934,"text":"報告委員經濟部的立場是保護消費者我們不是要保護租賃公司所以如果消費者在那租賃公司跟消費者有沒有做成一個連結呢"},{"start":276.451,"end":303.2,"text":"我們如果他們之間有爭議經濟部立場是保護消費者我們法律上給我們的職權跟指定的業務是保護消費者那至於租賃公司會造成系統性的風險的話就要看租賃公司資金來源會不會造成系統性如果是租賃公司自己很有錢他倒閉了那是租賃公司個別公司問題但是我剛剛有聽到委員所講如果他的錢是來自於大眾資金那我想金管會來管理"},{"start":303.843,"end":328.157,"text":"是,好,那我再請金管會那我想這個次長講得非常清楚就是說在下一頁我們看到了就是說主任公司他在有沒有換高利貸有沒有超過22倍有沒有違反土建融的一個限制有沒有經過第三地的一個洗錢把我們的錢進到中國去"},{"start":330.138,"end":350.732,"text":"報告委員如果是金融金管會主管的金融機構或是金控他轉投資的部分這部分我們都可以透過母公司的管理去管"},{"start":352.406,"end":368.752,"text":"但是如果不是透過金融機構轉投只是一般民間你剛提到的那一家公司我們沒有辦法直接去管但是因為它是發生在中國大陸只要不會在系統風險傳染到台灣基本上對台灣的金融體系是安全的"},{"start":373.666,"end":399.014,"text":"可是跟委員報告我的資料不見得正確我剛剛報告過從公股銀行過去的剛剛局長說大概差不多200億左右其他就是在大陸就地貸款的不是不是絕對不是這樣子公股銀行我想在這個那個我想由財政部部長來回答這個話在本席在上一次的時候已經非常清楚的問過你了就是說所有從我們八大公股銀行"},{"start":400.394,"end":424.916,"text":"這個主任公司從八大公股銀行裡頭你已經就是借貸就是你帳面上查得到的就是已經一千三百多億了那這個剛才主委又講了他說如果查得到的其實只有兩百億這個為什麼這個數據上會有這樣子的一個落差呢顯然就是說銀行他沒有辦法足比的去檢查"},{"start":425.977,"end":454.44,"text":"到底你你晃了的錢到底他的用途在哪裡那該怎麼辦呢跟委員報告也就是說我們八家公股行庫帶放給融資註定公司的總金額目前來說是1359億但是您剛剛提的200億是指說在大陸地區的但是主委剛剛有說大陸地區他其實有很多是在大陸地區自己去帶放在跟台灣這邊我們公股行庫帶放其實是是不同的來源"},{"start":456.495,"end":478.372,"text":"所以我想這個繞來繞去大家其實都已經知道問題的一個嚴重性只是就是沒有辦法就是很清楚的去講說這個就是大家共同的一個責任那為什麼我們一定要去正視這個問題他顯然是一個很大的一個困境很大的一個金融的危機呈現在我們的社會上"},{"start":479.113,"end":491.426,"text":"那這個三大業者的一個貸款戶已經變成了真信的一個死角那要怎麼辦呢甚至有很多主任公司要求建商你來借錢的時候你還要採購我老闆"},{"start":494.509,"end":495.109,"text":"大陸的消息"},{"start":518.551,"end":539.26,"text":"就是說在這樣子的一個就是強迫客戶採購就是老闆的一個私人的一個產品就是說我這個老闆我自己推出了一些就是我的保健食品的話那這樣子有沒有涉及就是掏空這個對公司的一個掏空有沒有涉及到一個背信跟圖令啊"},{"start":540.801,"end":544.684,"text":"當然我知道你會這樣回答我這個已經就是說他就是真實的要求就是你要借貸的這一個公司必須要在護貸買我的這個生技產品了是"},{"start":569.315,"end":585.687,"text":"真實的真實的這個個案太多了個案太多了就是說我們知道就是這個甚至就是在中國也發生了很多類似的這樣的一個那個案件就是你借錢你還要綁著就是要買我的保健品"},{"start":587.618,"end":609.117,"text":"所以在下一頁我想中珠迪河他跨足了生意的保健就是重案家這個大家都是非常清楚了甚至他在我們國內有名的這個經濟雜誌裡頭他還去做了很多創造了很多的一個故事讓大家把他這個公司看了就像一個成功的一個勝利主"},{"start":610.56,"end":617.735,"text":"這個我覺得我們是不是有法可管還是無法可管這個是我們大家必須要就是很"},{"start":619.133,"end":619.153,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":641.904,"end":658.922,"text":"經濟部也列了一個臺北市主任公會訂了一個自立的規範可是這個五條的一個規範真的能自立嗎顯然好像是非常的一個空洞非常的一個空洞端端的幾行怎麼樣去執行我想這個都是"},{"start":660.462,"end":686.209,"text":"這是一個交代,交代給委員可是如果說委員可以這樣子照單前收的話這個我們也是愧則就是我們不管是區域還是部分區的那個委員這樣子的一個社會責任你自立的規範沒有禁止就是要換款的這些孩子這些孩子就是說他在出社會的時候當他一台摩托車他可以借到30萬的時候他就是這樣子"},{"start":687.509,"end":716.57,"text":"毫無就是一個社會經驗他就是變成一個就是就承擔了這麼多的一個負債這個是我們大家必須要就是非常嚴肅的來看待這個事情自立規範沒有重點年輕人繼續受害違反也不處罰這種東西有自立嗎顯然是毫無自立所以在這裡也是要跟各位再提醒那本席要求就是金款會在一個業內跟業者完全"},{"start":717.21,"end":746.252,"text":"致力規範並且實施那金管會在致力規範實施以前應該要要求業者下架還有就是要揭露他的利率的一個廣告跟數位部討論強制的一個下架金管會應該重新審查業者他的研製力的計算的方式跟數據確認是不是涉及他有沒有美化他的財報拜託金管會在一個月內提出書面的報告是我們朝這個方向去處理謝謝"},{"start":747.114,"end":747.134,"text":"好,謝謝"}]}}}}