{"id":151256,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151256","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627e729eb469ed0d744b57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c94f6c1ccb80721074c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"10:48:18 - 11:03:41","影片長度":"00:15:23","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":923,"end_time":"2024-04-17T11:03:41+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T10:48:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":689,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（10時48分）謝謝主席，麻煩請薛部長、環境管理署顏署長跟資源循環署的賴署長。"],["主席：好，以上官員請。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。今天在你們的簡報第14頁有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3,234萬公噸，其中一般廢棄物占了38%，達到1,230萬公噸，其中59.5%的回收利用，這些數據跟本席取得一般廢棄物產生量的統計來看是非常接近的，只是我不清楚的是，你們為什麼只有提供112年的資料？因為從我取得的資料來看，我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1,173萬公噸，剛好整整增加了六成。如果看這個平均值，我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看，過了10年，每人每日產生了1.38公斤，但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年57.6%，10年只進步了2.6%而已。本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實，這表示說10年來，我們的一般廢棄物是不斷地在增加，所有的預算資源、政策計畫，各種一般廢棄物的減廢、減量、資源回收的作為，其實感覺幾乎好像沒有什麼成效。雖然說我們一般廢棄物的焚化占了37.18%，掩埋的部分占1.32%，似乎是有在處理，但是怎麼會減廢、減量卻越減越多，10年增加六成！即使焚化爐燒得掉，但跨縣市清運垃圾去焚化，車輛汽油、柴油的燃燒，我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員，我可不可以說明一下？"],["陳委員瑩：好。"],["薛部長富盛：這裡面的數據會有一些誤導，原因是因為我們一般廢棄物……"],["陳委員瑩：你是說我誤導，還是你誤導？"],["薛部長富盛：不是，就是這個結論出來的結果，我們提供了數據，但是這裡面沒有瞭解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義，把包括了事業員工產生的垃圾那一塊加進來，107年之前不算，所以分母就少這一塊。第二個，又外加一些活動，譬如說我們辦一些什麼嘉年華、演唱會，或者說發生颱風、發生地震，清除的垃圾……"],["陳委員瑩：所以這個加進來就會有很大的變化？"],["薛部長富盛：對，所以在我們的數據裡面，那一部分將來是在分母……"],["陳委員瑩：事業廢棄物……可是我們今天主席排的是在講一般廢棄物啊。"],["薛部長富盛：一般跟事業廢棄物，我們是兩類啦！剛剛講的那一張圖，委員要不要回到原來那張圖？左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物，包括家用；右手邊是事業廢棄物，大概三分之二左右……"],["陳委員瑩：總量……"],["薛部長富盛：再前面那一張，2,004萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物，而一般廢棄物就在左手邊，我剛剛跟委員說明的，就是在107年，它整個納歸到一般廢棄物增加的量非常多，因此分母就會增加。所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面，那個數值就會很小，或者你可以解釋成，事實上之前假如有把那一部分算進去一般廢棄物，之前所謂的回收率就不會到55%啦，很可能變成40%……"],["陳委員瑩：部長，我其實每次的質詢都非常優待您，都讓你做非常完整的表述，也沒有給你插話……"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員。"],["陳委員瑩：不過回到我們問題的本質，不管它的分母是大或是小，我最想請教的是，如果520之後您留任的話，有什麼具體的減量政策？"],["薛部長富盛：跟陳委員報告，我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長，把我的一些想法跟他分享，因為施政有一貫性啦！"],["陳委員瑩：好，沒關係，那我問一下顏署長，您的看法是什麼？你會留下來吧？"],["薛部長富盛：我會留在學校。"],["陳委員瑩：什麼？"],["薛部長富盛：我會回中興大學。"],["陳委員瑩：好，署長會留、部長要回學校，那我問署長，你的看法是什麼？佛光山好玩嗎？"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，是這樣子，整個一般事業廢棄物的部分，我們持續每年還在做各個縣市資源回收的評比，這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據，我們是相信這樣子的處理方式，可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收……"],["陳委員瑩：所以我問具體減量的政策，你就是繼續評估這樣子？"],["顏署長旭明：我們透過……"],["陳委員瑩：所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎？因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿，你們到佛光山去，署長非常特別，他的位置旁邊還有專人坐著奉茶，現泡現奉。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員觀察很仔細喔！"],["陳委員瑩：因為你們有發新聞稿，我就看了一下，這個真的是署長的特別待遇。我另外再請教署長，先離題問一下，請問我們這次0403地震後，你馬上隔天就派人到花東去要做什麼？"],["顏署長旭明：我們0403去是因為花蓮地區有發生地震，它的廢棄物處理上面或許需要我們去協助，而整個花蓮有提出來他們的需求，那我們經過協調……"],["陳委員瑩：那臺東，你有去嗎？"],["顏署長旭明：臺東沒有。"],["陳委員瑩：沒有派人去？"],["顏署長旭明：臺東是我們南區的同仁……"],["陳委員瑩：沒有，是這樣子，我有聽到縣府大家的一些抱怨，因為災害剛剛發生完，大家很忙、忙成一團嘛！你要收廢棄物，可以稍微讓人家喘口氣後再去啊！那個時候，人家還要接待你們耶！因為你們是長官耶！你要去拜訪人家還是要幹嘛會不會看時間？因為我想收廢棄物這個應該是稍微不緊急，不是第一天在緊急黃金時期救災的時候吧？"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝陳委員的提醒，當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰環境部都不動。"],["陳委員瑩：對，你的動……"],["薛部長富盛：發生事情了都不去。"],["陳委員瑩：沒有，你要動，不要動得讓人家添麻煩。"],["薛部長富盛：不會，不會，我覺得應該沒有吧？"],["陳委員瑩：沒有叫你不動，但是如果去，人家還要接待的話，因為有這樣聲音傳出來……"],["薛部長富盛：喔，真的嗎？OK。"],["陳委員瑩：所以我在這裡關心了一下，你的方法可能要檢討。"],["薛部長富盛：瞭解，好。"],["陳委員瑩：好，因為今天主席排定減塑的題目，其實你們準備了很多策進的作為，當然我們一則喜、一則憂，喜的是環境部是有一些想法，而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合。例如說旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品，便利超商也不提供吸管了，但是他們還有很多的杯子還有塑膠的杯蓋，這樣子看起來是很有限。現在看了滿街外送員，因為人力已經補充了十幾萬了，所以南來北往的外送員風塵僕僕地穿梭在大街小巷裡面，其實就是代表一次性的包裝或者塑膠袋不斷地在產生。","所以讓本席很憂心的就是現在的作法，在推動各項一次性的、減量的工作，取得的效果是非常有限，結果就越減越多，過去10年已經是這樣，那未來的10年，我們是擔心它增加的比例上可能還會又更多。我們不僅是在空污跟水污受到影響，淨零碳排的目標也很難達成，所以那這麼多的經費，到底跟民眾宣導垃圾減量的重要性跟生活中要怎麼樣的配合，大家會覺得環境部當然越來越重要，可是你們到底跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近？所以我打上這樣的問號。因為10年增加這樣的成數，它是一個警訊啦！生活的小地方，因為禁用一次性的耗材，大部分民眾會覺得我已經做了環保，其實還是遠遠不足！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：你們今天的簡報裡面，到底哪一項跟民眾有關、需要民眾去配合？我在那邊研究了老半天，感覺上就不是很緊密的一個連結……"],["薛部長富盛：事實上，陳委員……"],["陳委員瑩：因為你們都攬到自己的身上，也攬到業者的身上，這樣很辛苦啊！"],["薛部長富盛：民眾的宣導還需要加強啦！"],["陳委員瑩：所以民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：我想要問，你們對於產生廢棄物的來源，沒有設身處地的溝通、告知，還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量，這個會有一個情形，就是你們在枝微末節一直談禁用跟限用，但也許只是民眾隨便生活中的一個忽略，可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個。你們在檢討也有看到這個啊！包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分，而我提的是外送、外帶，像增加的這些垃圾，你們要怎麼處理？剛剛賴署長有講到一點點。"],["薛部長富盛：好，給委員報告，可以嗎？我可以跟委員簡單報告嗎？"],["陳委員瑩：可以。"],["薛部長富盛：我想源頭減量滿重要的，未來我們要讓生產一次性塑膠的業者有責任，他們要付更高的費用，對民眾來講當然是在某一個程度以價制量，然後加強宣導啦！那這個習性的改變……"],["陳委員瑩：你講到以價制量，我就忍不住要講一下，比如說我們使用了塑膠袋，商家會酌收1塊、2塊，甚至有的收到5塊，可是收了這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府，而是放進商家自己的口袋啊！有嗎？那個有嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：所以我們現在是產源的責任嘛！就是將來生產者要負責……"],["陳委員瑩：對嘛！他買這麼多塑膠袋，成本可能只有100塊，結果他的100塊、100個塑膠袋可以收更多，就變成他變相在賣塑膠袋賺錢。"],["薛部長富盛：對，所以在制度上……"],["陳委員瑩：我在這裡提供一下我最近的觀察，就是某知名電商有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法，因為我之前遇到他們公司的高階主管，我有反映說：你們的包裝實在是多得太誇張了，主要的商品還有贈品，贈品一點點，它就另外再包，然後就再送，結果每次買一個東西，家裡就箱子一堆。但是他們現在就有提供民眾一個選擇，如果你同時訂很多筆，你願意等你的產品可以集中包裝、儘量減少包裝的話，他們可以放在同一個的箱子裡，雖然會比較慢到，但是可以退30塊錢，這樣民眾就有一個選擇。所以我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式，你也可以要求……"],["薛部長富盛：對！比較正面的來……"],["陳委員瑩：你們甚至可以規定電商，要求他們提供民眾回饋，就是用回答問題的方式，每次採購大家要填寫有沒有過度包裝，這樣民眾就可以看到。你不要寫別的喔！不是說包裝好不好，而是有沒有過度包裝，你就要求要問這一題嘛！你們甚至可以說，以剛剛那個某知名電商提供民眾這樣的選擇，已經有很主動在做垃圾減量的工作，所以你們可以給它獎勵啊！"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["陳委員瑩：對不對？鼓勵多一點電商，大家都一起來學習，這是一個還不錯的方法嘛！","最後要提醒的就是，每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機，這些到底要怎麼樣被回收？因為相關的回收機制和成效真的很值得我們去重視，必須讓民眾遵循，並兼顧到民眾的權益，因為裡面有很多元件都是可以回收再利用的……"],["薛部長富盛：是！"],["陳委員瑩：所以我希望這個部分不應該讓民眾無法取得自己應有的權益，都讓回收業者去獲利。針對手機的回收，請你們參考一下國外的做法，在2個月內提供國內外現行的比較分析資料給本席。"],["薛部長富盛：OK，謝謝陳委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時9分）"],["主席：好，我們要繼續開會，請大家回座。","接下來請牛煦庭委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","陳瑩","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra 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0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 56.921, \"end\": 57.421, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 57.421, \"end\": 58.022, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 58.022, \"end\": 58.382, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 58.382, \"end\": 58.542, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 58.542, \"end\": 58.702, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 58.702, \"end\": 58.842, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 58.842, \"end\": 59.082, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 59.082, \"end\": 59.463, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 59.463, \"end\": 59.723, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 59.723, \"end\": 59.743, \"score\": 0.896}]}, {\"start\": 60.343, \"end\": 62.745, \"text\": \"我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 60.343, \"end\": 60.483, 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\"如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 76.516, \"end\": 76.876, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 76.876, \"end\": 77.237, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 77.237, \"end\": 77.837, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 77.837, \"end\": 78.057, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 78.057, \"end\": 78.417, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 78.417, \"end\": 78.597, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 78.597, \"end\": 79.978, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 79.978, \"end\": 80.598, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 80.598, \"end\": 80.758, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 80.758, \"end\": 80.938, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"每\", 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\"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 86.481, \"end\": 86.661, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 86.661, \"end\": 87.281, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.281, \"end\": 88.482, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 88.482, \"end\": 88.662, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 88.662, \"end\": 89.782, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 89.782, \"end\": 90.042, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"斤\", \"start\": 90.042, \"end\": 90.582, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 90.582, \"end\": 90.743, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 90.743, \"end\": 90.863, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 90.863, \"end\": 91.063, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 91.063, \"end\": 91.763, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 91.763, \"end\": 91.943, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 91.943, \"end\": 92.443, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 92.443, \"end\": 92.643, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 92.643, \"end\": 92.883, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 92.883, \"end\": 93.664, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 93.664, \"end\": 93.824, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 93.824, \"end\": 94.004, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.004, \"end\": 94.124, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 94.124, \"end\": 94.284, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 94.284, \"end\": 94.464, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 94.464, \"end\": 94.644, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 94.644, \"end\": 94.944, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.944, \"end\": 95.505, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 95.505, \"end\": 95.685, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 95.685, \"end\": 95.705, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 95.705, \"end\": 95.805, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 95.805, \"end\": 95.825, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 95.825, \"end\": 95.845, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 95.845, \"end\": 95.865, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 105.969, \"end\": 124.764, \"text\": \"本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 105.969, \"end\": 106.129, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", 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\"start\": 116.197, \"end\": 116.357, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 116.357, \"end\": 116.497, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 116.497, \"end\": 116.597, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 116.597, \"end\": 116.818, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 116.818, \"end\": 117.278, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 117.278, \"end\": 117.558, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 117.558, \"end\": 117.818, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 117.818, \"end\": 119.259, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 119.259, \"end\": 119.8, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 119.8, \"end\": 120.4, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 120.4, \"end\": 120.5, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 120.5, \"end\": 121.081, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 121.081, \"end\": 121.241, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 121.241, \"end\": 122.382, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 122.382, \"end\": 122.742, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 122.742, \"end\": 122.962, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 122.962, \"end\": 123.142, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 123.142, \"end\": 123.322, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.322, \"end\": 123.483, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 123.483, \"end\": 124.383, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 124.383, \"end\": 124.744, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 124.744, \"end\": 124.764, \"score\": 0.995}]}, {\"start\": 125.444, \"end\": 131.915, \"text\": \"感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 125.444, \"end\": 126.205, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 126.205, \"end\": 126.346, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 126.346, \"end\": 126.526, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 126.526, \"end\": 127.087, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"乎\", \"start\": 127.087, \"end\": 127.267, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 127.267, \"end\": 127.367, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 127.367, \"end\": 127.488, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 127.488, \"end\": 127.748, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 127.748, \"end\": 128.029, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 128.029, \"end\": 128.83, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 128.83, \"end\": 129.131, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 129.131, \"end\": 129.511, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 129.511, \"end\": 129.752, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 129.752, \"end\": 129.852, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 129.852, \"end\": 129.992, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 129.992, \"end\": 130.813, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 130.813, \"end\": 131.014, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 131.014, \"end\": 131.555, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 131.555, \"end\": 131.775, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 131.775, \"end\": 131.875, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"焚\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 131.875, \"end\": 131.895, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"佔\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 131.895, \"end\": 131.915, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}]}, 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895.888, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 895.888, \"end\": 896.008, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"休\", \"start\": 896.008, \"end\": 896.388, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 896.388, \"end\": 896.768, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 896.768, \"end\": 897.009, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 897.009, \"end\": 897.029, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,410 --> 00:00:16,003\n現在主席麻煩請薛部長還有環境管理署嚴署長跟資源循環署的賴署長\n\n2\n00:00:17,008 --> 00:00:22,353\n陳瑩好部長好今天在你們的簡報第14頁你們有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3234萬公噸那其中一般廢棄物佔了38%達到了1230萬公噸其中的59.5%的回收利用那這些數據\n\n3\n00:00:43,672 --> 00:00:59,743\n跟本席取得一般廢棄物的這個產生量的統計來看是非常接近的那只是說我不清楚的是說你們為什麼只有提供了112年的資料因為從我取得的資料來看呢\n\n4\n00:01:00,343 --> 00:01:02,745\n我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成\n\n5\n00:01:16,516 --> 00:01:35,865\n如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已\n\n6\n00:01:45,969 --> 00:02:04,764\n本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都\n\n7\n00:02:05,444 --> 00:02:11,915\n感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%\n\n8\n00:02:17,099 --> 00:02:46,380\n那掩埋的部分占1.32%似乎是有在處理了但是說怎麼會在減費減量卻越減越多那10年增加6成即使焚化爐燒的掉那跨線式的清運垃圾去焚化那車輛的汽油柴油的燃燒那我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎\n\n9\n00:02:47,180 --> 00:03:12,063\n陳委員我可不可以說明一下就是說這裡面的數據會有一點誤導原因是因為我們一般廢棄物你是說我誤導還是你誤導就是說這個結論出來的結果我們提供的數據但是這裡面沒有了解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義包括了事業\n\n10\n00:03:37,211 --> 00:04:02,392\n所以那一部分有啊,我們的數據裡面那一部分那一部分將來是在分母事業廢棄物可是我們今天主席排的是在講那個啊一般廢棄物啊事業廢棄物我們是兩類啦剛剛講的那一張圖你要不要回到原來那一張圖左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物包括家用嘛齁那右手邊是事業廢棄物啦\n\n11\n00:04:04,132 --> 00:04:11,589\n市委會見大概這個三分之二左右兩沒有在前面那一張在前面那一張好\n\n12\n00:04:12,811 --> 00:04:35,976\n兩千零四萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物嘛那一般廢棄物就左手邊那我剛剛給委員說明的就是說在107年他整個納歸到一般廢棄物的增加的量非常多所以分母就會增加所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面那那個數值就很小\n\n13\n00:04:36,596 --> 00:05:01,858\n或者你可以解釋成說事實上之前假如有把那部分算進去一般廢棄物那之前的所謂的回收率就不會到55啦很可能變成40部長我其實也都每次的質詢我都非常優待您喔都讓你做非常完整的一個表述也沒有給你插話不過回到這個我們問題的本質不管它的分母是大\n\n14\n00:05:02,438 --> 00:05:30,657\n或是小我其實想要我最想請教的是如果520之後您留任的話有什麼具體的減量政策給陳瑩報告我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長把我的一些想法跟他分享因為施政他有一貫性沒關係那我問一下嚴署長您的看法是什麼\n\n15\n00:05:32,038 --> 00:05:45,112\n你會留下來吧?我會留在學校。好,署長會留,部長要回學校。好,那我問署長你的看法是什麼?福光山好玩嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:48,487 --> 00:06:13,880\n報告委員是這樣子那個整個一般社會棄物的部分持續上面我們每年還在做各個縣市的資源回收的評比那這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據我們是相信這樣子的一個處理方式可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收所以我問的具體減量的政策就是你繼續評估這樣子\n\n17\n00:06:17,323 --> 00:06:30,988\n所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎?因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿,你們到佛光山去,署長非常特別,他的位置旁邊還有專人做的縫茶,現泡現縫。\n\n18\n00:06:36,342 --> 00:06:56,898\n陳瑩觀察很仔細因為你們放在新聞稿我就看了一下這個署長的特別待遇那我另外再請教署長這個是先離題問一下請問那個就是我們這次0403地震後的馬上你隔天就派人到這個花東要去做什麼就是我們\n\n19\n00:07:00,899 --> 00:07:01,199\n臺東你有去嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:17,271 --> 00:07:44,718\n台東沒有?沒有派人去沒有是這樣子啦我有聽到那個縣府的一些就是大報因為發生剛才發生完大家很忙忙成一團嘛啊你要收廢棄物你可以稍微讓人家喘口氣你再去啊你那個時候人家還要接待你們呢因為你們是長官欸你要去拜訪人家還是你要什麼你會不會看時間\n\n21\n00:07:46,821 --> 00:08:00,830\n因為我想這個說這個廢棄物這個應該是比較稍微不是第一天在緊急這個黃金時期救災的時候吧好謝謝陳瑩的提醒阿當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰說環境部都不動\n\n22\n00:08:02,157 --> 00:08:17,580\n對,你的動,你要動的不要讓人家添麻煩,沒有叫你不動,但是如果去人家還要接待的話,因為有這樣的聲音傳出來,所以我在這裡關心了一下,所以你的方法可能要檢討。\n\n23\n00:08:19,401 --> 00:08:44,849\n因為今天主席排定這個檢討的題目其實你們準備了很多這個策進的作為當然我們一方面一則喜一則憂喜的就是說環境部是有一些想法而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合例如說這個旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品\n\n24\n00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:31,649\n的在產生所以讓本席很憂心的就是說現在的做法在推動各項一次性的減量的這個工作那取得效果是非常有限那結果他就越減越多過去10年已經是這樣那未來的10年\n\n25\n00:09:32,409 --> 00:09:47,108\n就是說我們是擔心說它增加的可能這個比例上還會有更多所以我們不僅是在這個空污跟水污受到影響那在這個淨零碳排的目標也很難達成那所以就是說那這麼多的經費\n\n26\n00:09:49,069 --> 00:10:08,182\n到底這個跟民眾宣導的部分垃圾減量的這個重要性跟這個生活中要怎麼樣的配合就是說大家會覺得說環境部就是當然越來越重要可是離民眾你們到底有跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近所以我打上這樣的問號因為這個是\n\n27\n00:10:10,464 --> 00:10:10,664\n我是...\n\n28\n00:10:35,748 --> 00:10:48,127\n在那邊研究了老半天感覺上就是不是很緊密的一個連結因為你們都攬到自己的身上也攬到業者的身上嘛這樣很辛苦啊民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛\n\n29\n00:10:51,172 --> 00:11:16,083\n那因為我想要問說對於你們這個你們對於這個產生廢棄物的來源沒有設身處地的溝通告知還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量那這個會有一個情形就是說你們在滋味末節的在那裡一直談禁用跟限用那只是說那民眾隨便一個生活中的一個忽略啦那可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個\n\n30\n00:11:18,165 --> 00:11:35,179\n你們在檢討也有看到這個包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分我提的是外售外帶這些增加的垃圾你們要怎麼處理剛剛賴署長有講到一點點\n\n31\n00:11:40,011 --> 00:11:59,064\n好給委員報告可以嗎我可以稍微簡單報告我想源頭減量蠻重要的啦齁那未來我們要對生產一次性塑膠的這個業者要他們有責任他要付更高的費用那對民眾來講當然就是說在某個程度以價質量然後\n\n32\n00:12:00,945 --> 00:12:27,993\n加強宣導那這個習性的改變講到這個宜家質量我就忍不住要講一下我們比如說去使用了塑膠袋他們會著收一塊兩塊甚至有人收到五塊錢可是收了這個錢這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府是放到那個商家自己的口袋啊所以我們接下來就產源的責任就是說你將來生產者\n\n33\n00:12:31,194 --> 00:12:48,245\n對嘛,他的成本他買這麼多塑膠袋他成本可能只有一百塊結果他的一百塊一百個塑膠袋他可以收更多這是變成他變相在賣塑膠賺錢那我在這裡我提供一下我最近的觀察就是某知名這個電商\n\n34\n00:12:53,217 --> 00:13:21,854\n他們有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法因為我之前遇到他們公司的這個高階主管我有反應我說你們的這個包裝實在是多得太誇張了主要的商品還有贈品贈品一點點他就另外再包然後就再送結果每次買一個東西家裡箱子一堆但是現在他們就有提供民眾一個選擇如果你同時訂很多筆\n\n35\n00:13:23,275 --> 00:13:35,209\n你願意等你的產品可以他們集中包裝盡量減少那個包裝的時候都放在同一個箱子裡那雖然會比較慢到但是你可以退30塊錢\n\n36\n00:13:37,487 --> 00:13:54,621\n這個民眾就有一個選擇那我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式你也可以要求你們甚至可以規定電商就是說要求他們要提供一個那個叫做什麼也不是問卷就是民眾的一個回饋我沒有回答問題嗎\n\n37\n00:13:56,109 --> 00:14:16,369\n每一次的採購大家填寫有沒有過度包裝好這個民眾就可以看到嘛你不要寫別的不是說包裝好不好喔是有沒有過度包裝你就要求要問這一題嘛那你們甚至可以說以剛剛那某知名店商他們提供了民眾這樣的選擇在\n\n38\n00:14:17,970 --> 00:14:32,631\n已經有很主動的在做這個垃圾減量的部分那你們可以給他獎勵啊鼓勵多一點電商大家都一起來學習這是一個還不錯的方法嘛所以就是要提醒跟請教就是說\n\n39\n00:14:33,953 --> 00:14:54,687\n還有最後提醒的就是說每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機嘛那到底他們怎麼樣被回收因為這個回收機制跟成效是真的很值得我們去重視那讓民眾就是說遵循而且兼顧到民眾的權益那因為裡面有很多的元件都是可以回收再利用的所以我希望這個部分\n\n40\n00:14:55,467 --> 00:14:57,029\n好,謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9410\t16003\t現在主席麻煩請薛部長還有環境管理署嚴署長跟資源循環署的賴署長\n17008\t22353\t陳瑩好部長好今天在你們的簡報第14頁你們有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3234萬公噸那其中一般廢棄物佔了38%達到了1230萬公噸其中的59.5%的回收利用那這些數據\n43672\t59743\t跟本席取得一般廢棄物的這個產生量的統計來看是非常接近的那只是說我不清楚的是說你們為什麼只有提供了112年的資料因為從我取得的資料來看呢\n60343\t62745\t我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成\n76516\t95865\t如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已\n105969\t124764\t本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都\n125444\t131915\t感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%\n137099\t166380\t那掩埋的部分占1.32%似乎是有在處理了但是說怎麼會在減費減量卻越減越多那10年增加6成即使焚化爐燒的掉那跨線式的清運垃圾去焚化那車輛的汽油柴油的燃燒那我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎\n167180\t192063\t陳委員我可不可以說明一下就是說這裡面的數據會有一點誤導原因是因為我們一般廢棄物你是說我誤導還是你誤導就是說這個結論出來的結果我們提供的數據但是這裡面沒有了解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義包括了事業\n193763\t216971\t對﹖\n217211\t242392\t所以那一部分有啊,我們的數據裡面那一部分那一部分將來是在分母事業廢棄物可是我們今天主席排的是在講那個啊一般廢棄物啊事業廢棄物我們是兩類啦剛剛講的那一張圖你要不要回到原來那一張圖左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物包括家用嘛齁那右手邊是事業廢棄物啦\n244132\t251589\t市委會見大概這個三分之二左右兩沒有在前面那一張在前面那一張好\n252811\t275976\t兩千零四萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物嘛那一般廢棄物就左手邊那我剛剛給委員說明的就是說在107年他整個納歸到一般廢棄物的增加的量非常多所以分母就會增加所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面那那個數值就很小\n276596\t301858\t或者你可以解釋成說事實上之前假如有把那部分算進去一般廢棄物那之前的所謂的回收率就不會到55啦很可能變成40部長我其實也都每次的質詢我都非常優待您喔都讓你做非常完整的一個表述也沒有給你插話不過回到這個我們問題的本質不管它的分母是大\n302438\t330657\t或是小我其實想要我最想請教的是如果520之後您留任的話有什麼具體的減量政策給陳瑩報告我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長把我的一些想法跟他分享因為施政他有一貫性沒關係那我問一下嚴署長您的看法是什麼\n332038\t345112\t你會留下來吧?我會留在學校。好,署長會留,部長要回學校。好,那我問署長你的看法是什麼?福光山好玩嗎?\n348487\t373880\t報告委員是這樣子那個整個一般社會棄物的部分持續上面我們每年還在做各個縣市的資源回收的評比那這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據我們是相信這樣子的一個處理方式可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收所以我問的具體減量的政策就是你繼續評估這樣子\n377323\t390988\t所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎?因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿,你們到佛光山去,署長非常特別,他的位置旁邊還有專人做的縫茶,現泡現縫。\n396342\t416898\t陳瑩觀察很仔細因為你們放在新聞稿我就看了一下這個署長的特別待遇那我另外再請教署長這個是先離題問一下請問那個就是我們這次0403地震後的馬上你隔天就派人到這個花東要去做什麼就是我們\n420899\t421199\t臺東你有去嗎?\n437271\t464718\t台東沒有?沒有派人去沒有是這樣子啦我有聽到那個縣府的一些就是大報因為發生剛才發生完大家很忙忙成一團嘛啊你要收廢棄物你可以稍微讓人家喘口氣你再去啊你那個時候人家還要接待你們呢因為你們是長官欸你要去拜訪人家還是你要什麼你會不會看時間\n466821\t480830\t因為我想這個說這個廢棄物這個應該是比較稍微不是第一天在緊急這個黃金時期救災的時候吧好謝謝陳瑩的提醒阿當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰說環境部都不動\n482157\t497580\t對,你的動,你要動的不要讓人家添麻煩,沒有叫你不動,但是如果去人家還要接待的話,因為有這樣的聲音傳出來,所以我在這裡關心了一下,所以你的方法可能要檢討。\n499401\t524849\t因為今天主席排定這個檢討的題目其實你們準備了很多這個策進的作為當然我們一方面一則喜一則憂喜的就是說環境部是有一些想法而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合例如說這個旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品\n525009\t553780\t陳瑩．\n554220\t571649\t的在產生所以讓本席很憂心的就是說現在的做法在推動各項一次性的減量的這個工作那取得效果是非常有限那結果他就越減越多過去10年已經是這樣那未來的10年\n572409\t587108\t就是說我們是擔心說它增加的可能這個比例上還會有更多所以我們不僅是在這個空污跟水污受到影響那在這個淨零碳排的目標也很難達成那所以就是說那這麼多的經費\n589069\t608182\t到底這個跟民眾宣導的部分垃圾減量的這個重要性跟這個生活中要怎麼樣的配合就是說大家會覺得說環境部就是當然越來越重要可是離民眾你們到底有跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近所以我打上這樣的問號因為這個是\n610464\t610664\t我是...\n635748\t648127\t在那邊研究了老半天感覺上就是不是很緊密的一個連結因為你們都攬到自己的身上也攬到業者的身上嘛這樣很辛苦啊民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛\n651172\t676083\t那因為我想要問說對於你們這個你們對於這個產生廢棄物的來源沒有設身處地的溝通告知還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量那這個會有一個情形就是說你們在滋味末節的在那裡一直談禁用跟限用那只是說那民眾隨便一個生活中的一個忽略啦那可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個\n678165\t695179\t你們在檢討也有看到這個包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分我提的是外售外帶這些增加的垃圾你們要怎麼處理剛剛賴署長有講到一點點\n700011\t719064\t好給委員報告可以嗎我可以稍微簡單報告我想源頭減量蠻重要的啦齁那未來我們要對生產一次性塑膠的這個業者要他們有責任他要付更高的費用那對民眾來講當然就是說在某個程度以價質量然後\n720945\t747993\t加強宣導那這個習性的改變講到這個宜家質量我就忍不住要講一下我們比如說去使用了塑膠袋他們會著收一塊兩塊甚至有人收到五塊錢可是收了這個錢這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府是放到那個商家自己的口袋啊所以我們接下來就產源的責任就是說你將來生產者\n751194\t768245\t對嘛,他的成本他買這麼多塑膠袋他成本可能只有一百塊結果他的一百塊一百個塑膠袋他可以收更多這是變成他變相在賣塑膠賺錢那我在這裡我提供一下我最近的觀察就是某知名這個電商\n773217\t801854\t他們有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法因為我之前遇到他們公司的這個高階主管我有反應我說你們的這個包裝實在是多得太誇張了主要的商品還有贈品贈品一點點他就另外再包然後就再送結果每次買一個東西家裡箱子一堆但是現在他們就有提供民眾一個選擇如果你同時訂很多筆\n803275\t815209\t你願意等你的產品可以他們集中包裝盡量減少那個包裝的時候都放在同一個箱子裡那雖然會比較慢到但是你可以退30塊錢\n817487\t834621\t這個民眾就有一個選擇那我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式你也可以要求你們甚至可以規定電商就是說要求他們要提供一個那個叫做什麼也不是問卷就是民眾的一個回饋我沒有回答問題嗎\n836109\t856369\t每一次的採購大家填寫有沒有過度包裝好這個民眾就可以看到嘛你不要寫別的不是說包裝好不好喔是有沒有過度包裝你就要求要問這一題嘛那你們甚至可以說以剛剛那某知名店商他們提供了民眾這樣的選擇在\n857970\t872631\t已經有很主動的在做這個垃圾減量的部分那你們可以給他獎勵啊鼓勵多一點電商大家都一起來學習這是一個還不錯的方法嘛所以就是要提醒跟請教就是說\n873953\t894687\t還有最後提醒的就是說每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機嘛那到底他們怎麼樣被回收因為這個回收機制跟成效是真的很值得我們去重視那讓民眾就是說遵循而且兼顧到民眾的權益那因為裡面有很多的元件都是可以回收再利用的所以我希望這個部分\n895467\t897029\t好,謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘\n","txt":"現在主席麻煩請薛部長還有環境管理署嚴署長跟資源循環署的賴署長\n陳瑩好部長好今天在你們的簡報第14頁你們有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3234萬公噸那其中一般廢棄物佔了38%達到了1230萬公噸其中的59.5%的回收利用那這些數據\n跟本席取得一般廢棄物的這個產生量的統計來看是非常接近的那只是說我不清楚的是說你們為什麼只有提供了112年的資料因為從我取得的資料來看呢\n我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成\n如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已\n本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都\n感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%\n那掩埋的部分占1.32%似乎是有在處理了但是說怎麼會在減費減量卻越減越多那10年增加6成即使焚化爐燒的掉那跨線式的清運垃圾去焚化那車輛的汽油柴油的燃燒那我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎\n陳委員我可不可以說明一下就是說這裡面的數據會有一點誤導原因是因為我們一般廢棄物你是說我誤導還是你誤導就是說這個結論出來的結果我們提供的數據但是這裡面沒有了解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義包括了事業\n對﹖\n所以那一部分有啊,我們的數據裡面那一部分那一部分將來是在分母事業廢棄物可是我們今天主席排的是在講那個啊一般廢棄物啊事業廢棄物我們是兩類啦剛剛講的那一張圖你要不要回到原來那一張圖左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物包括家用嘛齁那右手邊是事業廢棄物啦\n市委會見大概這個三分之二左右兩沒有在前面那一張在前面那一張好\n兩千零四萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物嘛那一般廢棄物就左手邊那我剛剛給委員說明的就是說在107年他整個納歸到一般廢棄物的增加的量非常多所以分母就會增加所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面那那個數值就很小\n或者你可以解釋成說事實上之前假如有把那部分算進去一般廢棄物那之前的所謂的回收率就不會到55啦很可能變成40部長我其實也都每次的質詢我都非常優待您喔都讓你做非常完整的一個表述也沒有給你插話不過回到這個我們問題的本質不管它的分母是大\n或是小我其實想要我最想請教的是如果520之後您留任的話有什麼具體的減量政策給陳瑩報告我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長把我的一些想法跟他分享因為施政他有一貫性沒關係那我問一下嚴署長您的看法是什麼\n你會留下來吧?我會留在學校。好,署長會留,部長要回學校。好,那我問署長你的看法是什麼?福光山好玩嗎?\n報告委員是這樣子那個整個一般社會棄物的部分持續上面我們每年還在做各個縣市的資源回收的評比那這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據我們是相信這樣子的一個處理方式可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收所以我問的具體減量的政策就是你繼續評估這樣子\n所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎?因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿,你們到佛光山去,署長非常特別,他的位置旁邊還有專人做的縫茶,現泡現縫。\n陳瑩觀察很仔細因為你們放在新聞稿我就看了一下這個署長的特別待遇那我另外再請教署長這個是先離題問一下請問那個就是我們這次0403地震後的馬上你隔天就派人到這個花東要去做什麼就是我們\n臺東你有去嗎?\n台東沒有?沒有派人去沒有是這樣子啦我有聽到那個縣府的一些就是大報因為發生剛才發生完大家很忙忙成一團嘛啊你要收廢棄物你可以稍微讓人家喘口氣你再去啊你那個時候人家還要接待你們呢因為你們是長官欸你要去拜訪人家還是你要什麼你會不會看時間\n因為我想這個說這個廢棄物這個應該是比較稍微不是第一天在緊急這個黃金時期救災的時候吧好謝謝陳瑩的提醒阿當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰說環境部都不動\n對,你的動,你要動的不要讓人家添麻煩,沒有叫你不動,但是如果去人家還要接待的話,因為有這樣的聲音傳出來,所以我在這裡關心了一下,所以你的方法可能要檢討。\n因為今天主席排定這個檢討的題目其實你們準備了很多這個策進的作為當然我們一方面一則喜一則憂喜的就是說環境部是有一些想法而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合例如說這個旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品\n陳瑩．\n的在產生所以讓本席很憂心的就是說現在的做法在推動各項一次性的減量的這個工作那取得效果是非常有限那結果他就越減越多過去10年已經是這樣那未來的10年\n就是說我們是擔心說它增加的可能這個比例上還會有更多所以我們不僅是在這個空污跟水污受到影響那在這個淨零碳排的目標也很難達成那所以就是說那這麼多的經費\n到底這個跟民眾宣導的部分垃圾減量的這個重要性跟這個生活中要怎麼樣的配合就是說大家會覺得說環境部就是當然越來越重要可是離民眾你們到底有跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近所以我打上這樣的問號因為這個是\n我是...\n在那邊研究了老半天感覺上就是不是很緊密的一個連結因為你們都攬到自己的身上也攬到業者的身上嘛這樣很辛苦啊民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛\n那因為我想要問說對於你們這個你們對於這個產生廢棄物的來源沒有設身處地的溝通告知還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量那這個會有一個情形就是說你們在滋味末節的在那裡一直談禁用跟限用那只是說那民眾隨便一個生活中的一個忽略啦那可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個\n你們在檢討也有看到這個包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分我提的是外售外帶這些增加的垃圾你們要怎麼處理剛剛賴署長有講到一點點\n好給委員報告可以嗎我可以稍微簡單報告我想源頭減量蠻重要的啦齁那未來我們要對生產一次性塑膠的這個業者要他們有責任他要付更高的費用那對民眾來講當然就是說在某個程度以價質量然後\n加強宣導那這個習性的改變講到這個宜家質量我就忍不住要講一下我們比如說去使用了塑膠袋他們會著收一塊兩塊甚至有人收到五塊錢可是收了這個錢這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府是放到那個商家自己的口袋啊所以我們接下來就產源的責任就是說你將來生產者\n對嘛,他的成本他買這麼多塑膠袋他成本可能只有一百塊結果他的一百塊一百個塑膠袋他可以收更多這是變成他變相在賣塑膠賺錢那我在這裡我提供一下我最近的觀察就是某知名這個電商\n他們有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法因為我之前遇到他們公司的這個高階主管我有反應我說你們的這個包裝實在是多得太誇張了主要的商品還有贈品贈品一點點他就另外再包然後就再送結果每次買一個東西家裡箱子一堆但是現在他們就有提供民眾一個選擇如果你同時訂很多筆\n你願意等你的產品可以他們集中包裝盡量減少那個包裝的時候都放在同一個箱子裡那雖然會比較慢到但是你可以退30塊錢\n這個民眾就有一個選擇那我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式你也可以要求你們甚至可以規定電商就是說要求他們要提供一個那個叫做什麼也不是問卷就是民眾的一個回饋我沒有回答問題嗎\n每一次的採購大家填寫有沒有過度包裝好這個民眾就可以看到嘛你不要寫別的不是說包裝好不好喔是有沒有過度包裝你就要求要問這一題嘛那你們甚至可以說以剛剛那某知名店商他們提供了民眾這樣的選擇在\n已經有很主動的在做這個垃圾減量的部分那你們可以給他獎勵啊鼓勵多一點電商大家都一起來學習這是一個還不錯的方法嘛所以就是要提醒跟請教就是說\n還有最後提醒的就是說每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機嘛那到底他們怎麼樣被回收因為這個回收機制跟成效是真的很值得我們去重視那讓民眾就是說遵循而且兼顧到民眾的權益那因為裡面有很多的元件都是可以回收再利用的所以我希望這個部分\n好,謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.410 --> 00:16.003\n現在主席麻煩請薛部長還有環境管理署嚴署長跟資源循環署的賴署長\n\n00:17.008 --> 00:22.353\n陳瑩好部長好今天在你們的簡報第14頁你們有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3234萬公噸那其中一般廢棄物佔了38%達到了1230萬公噸其中的59.5%的回收利用那這些數據\n\n00:43.672 --> 00:59.743\n跟本席取得一般廢棄物的這個產生量的統計來看是非常接近的那只是說我不清楚的是說你們為什麼只有提供了112年的資料因為從我取得的資料來看呢\n\n01:00.343 --> 01:02.745\n我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成\n\n01:16.516 --> 01:35.865\n如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已\n\n01:45.969 --> 02:04.764\n本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都\n\n02:05.444 --> 02:11.915\n感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%\n\n02:17.099 --> 02:46.380\n那掩埋的部分占1.32%似乎是有在處理了但是說怎麼會在減費減量卻越減越多那10年增加6成即使焚化爐燒的掉那跨線式的清運垃圾去焚化那車輛的汽油柴油的燃燒那我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎\n\n02:47.180 --> 03:12.063\n陳委員我可不可以說明一下就是說這裡面的數據會有一點誤導原因是因為我們一般廢棄物你是說我誤導還是你誤導就是說這個結論出來的結果我們提供的數據但是這裡面沒有了解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義包括了事業\n\n03:37.211 --> 04:02.392\n所以那一部分有啊,我們的數據裡面那一部分那一部分將來是在分母事業廢棄物可是我們今天主席排的是在講那個啊一般廢棄物啊事業廢棄物我們是兩類啦剛剛講的那一張圖你要不要回到原來那一張圖左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物包括家用嘛齁那右手邊是事業廢棄物啦\n\n04:04.132 --> 04:11.589\n市委會見大概這個三分之二左右兩沒有在前面那一張在前面那一張好\n\n04:12.811 --> 04:35.976\n兩千零四萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物嘛那一般廢棄物就左手邊那我剛剛給委員說明的就是說在107年他整個納歸到一般廢棄物的增加的量非常多所以分母就會增加所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面那那個數值就很小\n\n04:36.596 --> 05:01.858\n或者你可以解釋成說事實上之前假如有把那部分算進去一般廢棄物那之前的所謂的回收率就不會到55啦很可能變成40部長我其實也都每次的質詢我都非常優待您喔都讓你做非常完整的一個表述也沒有給你插話不過回到這個我們問題的本質不管它的分母是大\n\n05:02.438 --> 05:30.657\n或是小我其實想要我最想請教的是如果520之後您留任的話有什麼具體的減量政策給陳瑩報告我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長把我的一些想法跟他分享因為施政他有一貫性沒關係那我問一下嚴署長您的看法是什麼\n\n05:32.038 --> 05:45.112\n你會留下來吧?我會留在學校。好,署長會留,部長要回學校。好,那我問署長你的看法是什麼?福光山好玩嗎?\n\n05:48.487 --> 06:13.880\n報告委員是這樣子那個整個一般社會棄物的部分持續上面我們每年還在做各個縣市的資源回收的評比那這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據我們是相信這樣子的一個處理方式可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收所以我問的具體減量的政策就是你繼續評估這樣子\n\n06:17.323 --> 06:30.988\n所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎?因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿,你們到佛光山去,署長非常特別,他的位置旁邊還有專人做的縫茶,現泡現縫。\n\n06:36.342 --> 06:56.898\n陳瑩觀察很仔細因為你們放在新聞稿我就看了一下這個署長的特別待遇那我另外再請教署長這個是先離題問一下請問那個就是我們這次0403地震後的馬上你隔天就派人到這個花東要去做什麼就是我們\n\n07:00.899 --> 07:01.199\n臺東你有去嗎?\n\n07:17.271 --> 07:44.718\n台東沒有?沒有派人去沒有是這樣子啦我有聽到那個縣府的一些就是大報因為發生剛才發生完大家很忙忙成一團嘛啊你要收廢棄物你可以稍微讓人家喘口氣你再去啊你那個時候人家還要接待你們呢因為你們是長官欸你要去拜訪人家還是你要什麼你會不會看時間\n\n07:46.821 --> 08:00.830\n因為我想這個說這個廢棄物這個應該是比較稍微不是第一天在緊急這個黃金時期救災的時候吧好謝謝陳瑩的提醒阿當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰說環境部都不動\n\n08:02.157 --> 08:17.580\n對,你的動,你要動的不要讓人家添麻煩,沒有叫你不動,但是如果去人家還要接待的話,因為有這樣的聲音傳出來,所以我在這裡關心了一下,所以你的方法可能要檢討。\n\n08:19.401 --> 08:44.849\n因為今天主席排定這個檢討的題目其實你們準備了很多這個策進的作為當然我們一方面一則喜一則憂喜的就是說環境部是有一些想法而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合例如說這個旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品\n\n09:14.220 --> 09:31.649\n的在產生所以讓本席很憂心的就是說現在的做法在推動各項一次性的減量的這個工作那取得效果是非常有限那結果他就越減越多過去10年已經是這樣那未來的10年\n\n09:32.409 --> 09:47.108\n就是說我們是擔心說它增加的可能這個比例上還會有更多所以我們不僅是在這個空污跟水污受到影響那在這個淨零碳排的目標也很難達成那所以就是說那這麼多的經費\n\n09:49.069 --> 10:08.182\n到底這個跟民眾宣導的部分垃圾減量的這個重要性跟這個生活中要怎麼樣的配合就是說大家會覺得說環境部就是當然越來越重要可是離民眾你們到底有跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近所以我打上這樣的問號因為這個是\n\n10:10.464 --> 10:10.664\n我是...\n\n10:35.748 --> 10:48.127\n在那邊研究了老半天感覺上就是不是很緊密的一個連結因為你們都攬到自己的身上也攬到業者的身上嘛這樣很辛苦啊民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛\n\n10:51.172 --> 11:16.083\n那因為我想要問說對於你們這個你們對於這個產生廢棄物的來源沒有設身處地的溝通告知還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量那這個會有一個情形就是說你們在滋味末節的在那裡一直談禁用跟限用那只是說那民眾隨便一個生活中的一個忽略啦那可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個\n\n11:18.165 --> 11:35.179\n你們在檢討也有看到這個包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分我提的是外售外帶這些增加的垃圾你們要怎麼處理剛剛賴署長有講到一點點\n\n11:40.011 --> 11:59.064\n好給委員報告可以嗎我可以稍微簡單報告我想源頭減量蠻重要的啦齁那未來我們要對生產一次性塑膠的這個業者要他們有責任他要付更高的費用那對民眾來講當然就是說在某個程度以價質量然後\n\n12:00.945 --> 12:27.993\n加強宣導那這個習性的改變講到這個宜家質量我就忍不住要講一下我們比如說去使用了塑膠袋他們會著收一塊兩塊甚至有人收到五塊錢可是收了這個錢這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府是放到那個商家自己的口袋啊所以我們接下來就產源的責任就是說你將來生產者\n\n12:31.194 --> 12:48.245\n對嘛,他的成本他買這麼多塑膠袋他成本可能只有一百塊結果他的一百塊一百個塑膠袋他可以收更多這是變成他變相在賣塑膠賺錢那我在這裡我提供一下我最近的觀察就是某知名這個電商\n\n12:53.217 --> 13:21.854\n他們有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法因為我之前遇到他們公司的這個高階主管我有反應我說你們的這個包裝實在是多得太誇張了主要的商品還有贈品贈品一點點他就另外再包然後就再送結果每次買一個東西家裡箱子一堆但是現在他們就有提供民眾一個選擇如果你同時訂很多筆\n\n13:23.275 --> 13:35.209\n你願意等你的產品可以他們集中包裝盡量減少那個包裝的時候都放在同一個箱子裡那雖然會比較慢到但是你可以退30塊錢\n\n13:37.487 --> 13:54.621\n這個民眾就有一個選擇那我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式你也可以要求你們甚至可以規定電商就是說要求他們要提供一個那個叫做什麼也不是問卷就是民眾的一個回饋我沒有回答問題嗎\n\n13:56.109 --> 14:16.369\n每一次的採購大家填寫有沒有過度包裝好這個民眾就可以看到嘛你不要寫別的不是說包裝好不好喔是有沒有過度包裝你就要求要問這一題嘛那你們甚至可以說以剛剛那某知名店商他們提供了民眾這樣的選擇在\n\n14:17.970 --> 14:32.631\n已經有很主動的在做這個垃圾減量的部分那你們可以給他獎勵啊鼓勵多一點電商大家都一起來學習這是一個還不錯的方法嘛所以就是要提醒跟請教就是說\n\n14:33.953 --> 14:54.687\n還有最後提醒的就是說每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機嘛那到底他們怎麼樣被回收因為這個回收機制跟成效是真的很值得我們去重視那讓民眾就是說遵循而且兼顧到民眾的權益那因為裡面有很多的元件都是可以回收再利用的所以我希望這個部分\n\n14:55.467 --> 14:57.029\n好,謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.41,"end":16.003,"text":"現在主席麻煩請薛部長還有環境管理署嚴署長跟資源循環署的賴署長"},{"start":17.008,"end":22.353,"text":"陳瑩好部長好今天在你們的簡報第14頁你們有秀出了112年全國廢棄物總量3234萬公噸那其中一般廢棄物佔了38%達到了1230萬公噸其中的59.5%的回收利用那這些數據"},{"start":43.672,"end":59.743,"text":"跟本席取得一般廢棄物的這個產生量的統計來看是非常接近的那只是說我不清楚的是說你們為什麼只有提供了112年的資料因為從我取得的資料來看呢"},{"start":60.343,"end":62.745,"text":"我國實際上年總量從102年的733萬公噸已經膨脹到112年的1173萬公噸剛好整整增加了六成"},{"start":76.516,"end":95.865,"text":"如果看這個平均值我們從102年每人每日生產的0.86公斤來看過了10年每人每日生產的產生了1.38公斤但是一般廢棄物的回收率是從102年的55%提高到112年的57.6%10年只進步了2.6%而已"},{"start":105.969,"end":124.764,"text":"本席認為這是一個非常可怕的事實這表示說這10年來我們的一般廢棄物是不斷的在增加那所有的預算資源政策計劃各種的一般廢棄物的減費減量資源回收的作為其實都"},{"start":125.444,"end":131.915,"text":"感覺都好像幾乎沒有什麼成效那雖然說我們的一般這個廢棄物呢它的這個焚化佔了37.18%"},{"start":137.099,"end":166.38,"text":"那掩埋的部分占1.32%似乎是有在處理了但是說怎麼會在減費減量卻越減越多那10年增加6成即使焚化爐燒的掉那跨線式的清運垃圾去焚化那車輛的汽油柴油的燃燒那我們這樣空氣品質不是也會變得不好嗎"},{"start":167.18,"end":192.063,"text":"陳委員我可不可以說明一下就是說這裡面的數據會有一點誤導原因是因為我們一般廢棄物你是說我誤導還是你誤導就是說這個結論出來的結果我們提供的數據但是這裡面沒有了解到我們在107年把一般廢棄物定義包括了事業"},{"start":193.763,"end":216.971,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":217.211,"end":242.392,"text":"所以那一部分有啊,我們的數據裡面那一部分那一部分將來是在分母事業廢棄物可是我們今天主席排的是在講那個啊一般廢棄物啊事業廢棄物我們是兩類啦剛剛講的那一張圖你要不要回到原來那一張圖左手邊一千多萬噸的那個是一般廢棄物包括家用嘛齁那右手邊是事業廢棄物啦"},{"start":244.132,"end":251.589,"text":"市委會見大概這個三分之二左右兩沒有在前面那一張在前面那一張好"},{"start":252.811,"end":275.976,"text":"兩千零四萬公噸這個是事業廢棄物嘛那一般廢棄物就左手邊那我剛剛給委員說明的就是說在107年他整個納歸到一般廢棄物的增加的量非常多所以分母就會增加所以當你用那時候的分母去除以我們的回收各方面那那個數值就很小"},{"start":276.596,"end":301.858,"text":"或者你可以解釋成說事實上之前假如有把那部分算進去一般廢棄物那之前的所謂的回收率就不會到55啦很可能變成40部長我其實也都每次的質詢我都非常優待您喔都讓你做非常完整的一個表述也沒有給你插話不過回到這個我們問題的本質不管它的分母是大"},{"start":302.438,"end":330.657,"text":"或是小我其實想要我最想請教的是如果520之後您留任的話有什麼具體的減量政策給陳瑩報告我會把要做的事情提供給新任的部長把我的一些想法跟他分享因為施政他有一貫性沒關係那我問一下嚴署長您的看法是什麼"},{"start":332.038,"end":345.112,"text":"你會留下來吧?我會留在學校。好,署長會留,部長要回學校。好,那我問署長你的看法是什麼?福光山好玩嗎?"},{"start":348.487,"end":373.88,"text":"報告委員是這樣子那個整個一般社會棄物的部分持續上面我們每年還在做各個縣市的資源回收的評比那這評比的結果會做我們考核跟補助的依據我們是相信這樣子的一個處理方式可以鼓勵大家對於資源回收所以我問的具體減量的政策就是你繼續評估這樣子"},{"start":377.323,"end":390.988,"text":"所以你到佛光山之後有新的啟發嗎?因為我有拜讀你們的新聞稿,你們到佛光山去,署長非常特別,他的位置旁邊還有專人做的縫茶,現泡現縫。"},{"start":396.342,"end":416.898,"text":"陳瑩觀察很仔細因為你們放在新聞稿我就看了一下這個署長的特別待遇那我另外再請教署長這個是先離題問一下請問那個就是我們這次0403地震後的馬上你隔天就派人到這個花東要去做什麼就是我們"},{"start":420.899,"end":421.199,"text":"臺東你有去嗎?"},{"start":437.271,"end":464.718,"text":"台東沒有?沒有派人去沒有是這樣子啦我有聽到那個縣府的一些就是大報因為發生剛才發生完大家很忙忙成一團嘛啊你要收廢棄物你可以稍微讓人家喘口氣你再去啊你那個時候人家還要接待你們呢因為你們是長官欸你要去拜訪人家還是你要什麼你會不會看時間"},{"start":466.821,"end":480.83,"text":"因為我想這個說這個廢棄物這個應該是比較稍微不是第一天在緊急這個黃金時期救災的時候吧好謝謝陳瑩的提醒阿當然另外一個觀點搞不好有人也會挑戰說環境部都不動"},{"start":482.157,"end":497.58,"text":"對,你的動,你要動的不要讓人家添麻煩,沒有叫你不動,但是如果去人家還要接待的話,因為有這樣的聲音傳出來,所以我在這裡關心了一下,所以你的方法可能要檢討。"},{"start":499.401,"end":524.849,"text":"因為今天主席排定這個檢討的題目其實你們準備了很多這個策進的作為當然我們一方面一則喜一則憂喜的就是說環境部是有一些想法而且也讓民眾跟業者從生活中去配合例如說這個旅宿業已經不是提供一次性的衛生用品"},{"start":525.009,"end":553.78,"text":"陳瑩．"},{"start":554.22,"end":571.649,"text":"的在產生所以讓本席很憂心的就是說現在的做法在推動各項一次性的減量的這個工作那取得效果是非常有限那結果他就越減越多過去10年已經是這樣那未來的10年"},{"start":572.409,"end":587.108,"text":"就是說我們是擔心說它增加的可能這個比例上還會有更多所以我們不僅是在這個空污跟水污受到影響那在這個淨零碳排的目標也很難達成那所以就是說那這麼多的經費"},{"start":589.069,"end":608.182,"text":"到底這個跟民眾宣導的部分垃圾減量的這個重要性跟這個生活中要怎麼樣的配合就是說大家會覺得說環境部就是當然越來越重要可是離民眾你們到底有跟民眾的距離有沒有越來越近所以我打上這樣的問號因為這個是"},{"start":610.464,"end":610.664,"text":"我是..."},{"start":635.748,"end":648.127,"text":"在那邊研究了老半天感覺上就是不是很緊密的一個連結因為你們都攬到自己的身上也攬到業者的身上嘛這樣很辛苦啊民眾可以再多分擔一點嘛"},{"start":651.172,"end":676.083,"text":"那因為我想要問說對於你們這個你們對於這個產生廢棄物的來源沒有設身處地的溝通告知還有輔導協助民眾一起來減量那這個會有一個情形就是說你們在滋味末節的在那裡一直談禁用跟限用那只是說那民眾隨便一個生活中的一個忽略啦那可能塑膠袋又多了好幾個"},{"start":678.165,"end":695.179,"text":"你們在檢討也有看到這個包括剛剛前面的委員也有提到網購的部分我提的是外售外帶這些增加的垃圾你們要怎麼處理剛剛賴署長有講到一點點"},{"start":700.011,"end":719.064,"text":"好給委員報告可以嗎我可以稍微簡單報告我想源頭減量蠻重要的啦齁那未來我們要對生產一次性塑膠的這個業者要他們有責任他要付更高的費用那對民眾來講當然就是說在某個程度以價質量然後"},{"start":720.945,"end":747.993,"text":"加強宣導那這個習性的改變講到這個宜家質量我就忍不住要講一下我們比如說去使用了塑膠袋他們會著收一塊兩塊甚至有人收到五塊錢可是收了這個錢這個錢好像也沒有繳到政府是放到那個商家自己的口袋啊所以我們接下來就產源的責任就是說你將來生產者"},{"start":751.194,"end":768.245,"text":"對嘛,他的成本他買這麼多塑膠袋他成本可能只有一百塊結果他的一百塊一百個塑膠袋他可以收更多這是變成他變相在賣塑膠賺錢那我在這裡我提供一下我最近的觀察就是某知名這個電商"},{"start":773.217,"end":801.854,"text":"他們有提供一個我覺得還不錯的方法因為我之前遇到他們公司的這個高階主管我有反應我說你們的這個包裝實在是多得太誇張了主要的商品還有贈品贈品一點點他就另外再包然後就再送結果每次買一個東西家裡箱子一堆但是現在他們就有提供民眾一個選擇如果你同時訂很多筆"},{"start":803.275,"end":815.209,"text":"你願意等你的產品可以他們集中包裝盡量減少那個包裝的時候都放在同一個箱子裡那雖然會比較慢到但是你可以退30塊錢"},{"start":817.487,"end":834.621,"text":"這個民眾就有一個選擇那我覺得你們可以用一個比較積極的方式你也可以要求你們甚至可以規定電商就是說要求他們要提供一個那個叫做什麼也不是問卷就是民眾的一個回饋我沒有回答問題嗎"},{"start":836.109,"end":856.369,"text":"每一次的採購大家填寫有沒有過度包裝好這個民眾就可以看到嘛你不要寫別的不是說包裝好不好喔是有沒有過度包裝你就要求要問這一題嘛那你們甚至可以說以剛剛那某知名店商他們提供了民眾這樣的選擇在"},{"start":857.97,"end":872.631,"text":"已經有很主動的在做這個垃圾減量的部分那你們可以給他獎勵啊鼓勵多一點電商大家都一起來學習這是一個還不錯的方法嘛所以就是要提醒跟請教就是說"},{"start":873.953,"end":894.687,"text":"還有最後提醒的就是說每個人家裡都有很多使用過的手機嘛那到底他們怎麼樣被回收因為這個回收機制跟成效是真的很值得我們去重視那讓民眾就是說遵循而且兼顧到民眾的權益那因為裡面有很多的元件都是可以回收再利用的所以我希望這個部分"},{"start":895.467,"end":897.029,"text":"好,謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘"}]}}}}