{"id":151261,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151261","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627aaf4772a920363ab8f48eb7d2985ecdbc5dab72e655c1c941c4693f331ba09535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"10:43:13 - 10:52:06","影片長度":"00:08:53","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第五條及第六條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai 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526.642, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 526.642, \"end\": 526.802, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 526.802, \"end\": 526.822, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 526.822, \"end\": 526.862, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 526.862, \"end\": 527.022, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 527.022, \"end\": 527.042, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,692 --> 00:00:02,481\n接下來有請高金委員質詢\n\n2\n00:00:08,091 --> 00:00:36,043\n謝謝主席,我們請中副組委林副署長,然後環境部的蘇組長。好,請上主委。在這裡先向在場的所有委員支持原住民族的公平正義,土地的公平正義這個禁法補償的這個修法的部分。然後另外呢,在審這個原住民保留地禁法補償條例之前,我也想先緬懷一下3月份盟主恩寵的簡東明委員。\n\n3\n00:00:37,244 --> 00:00:41,966\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n4\n00:00:59,813 --> 00:01:21,443\n都是由原住民的委員在這裡奮鬥、努力、然後要求所以我特別懷念的是簡東明委員101年的時候我還有鄭天財委員還有簡東明委員我們不斷的協商經過了六次的黨團協商我今天講沒有行政院版本是原住民的版本\n\n5\n00:01:21,983 --> 00:01:42,886\n最后是在民进党委员田秋琴委员的支持之下民进党团最后签字让他三讀通过。然后108年也因为我的总质询要求有很多原住民族的范围里面被国家限制的并没有放在里头所以要求苏贞昌委\n\n6\n00:01:44,488 --> 00:02:05,685\n行政院長能夠主動來提出行政院版本,因此108年也是我的總質詢,以後行政院長蘇院長也同意,所以因此有了修正第五條,這個第五條就是原住民保留地符合下列條件之一者有主管機關劃定為禁伐區域並且公告\n\n7\n00:02:06,405 --> 00:02:33,091\n是依法規定的林業用地或適用林業用地的管制。二、依法劃設為原住民保護區或水源特定區。三、依法劃設在國家公園的區域。四、其他經過主管機關熱定有實施禁法的必要。因此有了這個第五條的修正之後,我們原住民族的族人才會到現在有7.2\n\n8\n00:02:34,311 --> 00:03:00,492\n2萬公頃的族人,將近4萬多人的族人領到了這個所謂的土地公平正義。」所以大家在這邊不要吵來吵去了然後我們也看一下在今年我也最後對行政院長也就是陳建仁院長也經過我的總質詢行政院長的回應是什麼請大家聽好尤其原民會行政院的意思是說他會\n\n9\n00:03:01,914 --> 00:03:14,360\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n10\n00:03:23,644 --> 00:03:46,273\n我雖然同意主委今天的請假,但是在禁法補償這種涉及到原住民族土地正義的法案上面我們再回想一下,當初立法的時候,我們的民進黨的事務部移將主任他還不是主委的時候,他就公開在所有的媒體上說禁法補償這個案是乾坑法案。\n\n11\n00:03:47,193 --> 00:03:55,057\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n\n12\n00:04:05,239 --> 00:04:14,262\n地禁補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n13\n00:04:26,089 --> 00:04:36,825\n我們可以看一下,大家一直在講預算,禁法補償目前7.2公頃補償金才23億,如果我們按照我的提案,增加2萬塊,\n\n14\n00:04:39,249 --> 00:04:56,178\n增加14億左右而已耶!這14億真的會影響到我們國家的經濟的衰退?國家的經濟的整個預算嗎?然後會影響到國家的政策嗎?我們再來看一下速發部一年預算149億啊!\n\n15\n00:04:58,479 --> 00:05:17,878\n他對國家、對我們這塊土地上有任何的貢獻嗎?而原住民的私人土地這是憲法被保障的,我們政府要配合政府這麼多的法規限制,我不能夠尊公眾。我們僅僅的要求,沒有過分的要求,按照林務局一樣6萬塊,按照平地休耕一樣5萬塊,我們錯在哪裡?\n\n16\n00:05:23,874 --> 00:05:30,902\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n\n17\n00:05:33,581 --> 00:05:44,083\n禁法補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n18\n00:06:03,667 --> 00:06:06,449\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n19\n00:06:18,937 --> 00:06:21,698\n農業部、林務局、我們的討論院跟非常多的專家學者討論為什麼要覆蓋率70%?就是因為不管是林地造林也好,不管是竹林也好,它是需要抒罰的啊。\n\n20\n00:06:34,725 --> 00:06:37,766\n所以今天林務局才會講,如果有抒罰的話,同意他提高6萬塊,如果沒有賦予的是3萬塊,就是要鼓勵大家去賦予抒罰嘛,不是這樣嗎?請問我們林務部的副署長,你們來回應一下,簡單回應一下,是不是?\n\n21\n00:06:57,059 --> 00:07:08,027\n及第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n22\n00:07:21,917 --> 00:07:37,249\n各黨團、民進黨黨團、民政黨黨團、國民黨團的委員們沒有意見的話,我們就可以申讀通過。那如果大家有意見的話,我們就必須等到一個月後,我們在立法院來表決。」\n\n23\n00:07:38,806 --> 00:07:59,955\n一個月之後是520,也是賴清德總統就任的時候,到底我們的總統,我們中華民國的總統,我們的民進黨團在立法院的立法委員能不能支持,就要看大家對土地這件事情的看法。」\n\n24\n00:08:00,575 --> 00:08:26,786\n所以身為召委的我,待會會來審這幾條我希望這場的委員們能夠聽進去我今天的議席話也能夠符合中華民國憲法保障私人土地的這樣子的一個條文也保障原住民的土地的公平正義我再一次強調,我們這一次原住民的禁法補償是私人土地\n\n25\n00:08:27,486 --> 00:08:47,042\n不是所有的保留地,而私人土地我當時計算過大概才8萬公頃,現在被申請的只有7.2萬公頃,所以它到底會造成我們國家到底多大的所謂的財政的困難?請大家三思。謝謝。謝謝我們高金委員的質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n692\t2481\t接下來有請高金委員質詢\n8091\t36043\t謝謝主席,我們請中副組委林副署長,然後環境部的蘇組長。好,請上主委。在這裡先向在場的所有委員支持原住民族的公平正義,土地的公平正義這個禁法補償的這個修法的部分。然後另外呢,在審這個原住民保留地禁法補償條例之前,我也想先緬懷一下3月份盟主恩寵的簡東明委員。\n37244\t41966\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n59813\t81443\t都是由原住民的委員在這裡奮鬥、努力、然後要求所以我特別懷念的是簡東明委員101年的時候我還有鄭天財委員還有簡東明委員我們不斷的協商經過了六次的黨團協商我今天講沒有行政院版本是原住民的版本\n81983\t102886\t最后是在民进党委员田秋琴委员的支持之下民进党团最后签字让他三讀通过。然后108年也因为我的总质询要求有很多原住民族的范围里面被国家限制的并没有放在里头所以要求苏贞昌委\n104488\t125685\t行政院長能夠主動來提出行政院版本,因此108年也是我的總質詢,以後行政院長蘇院長也同意,所以因此有了修正第五條,這個第五條就是原住民保留地符合下列條件之一者有主管機關劃定為禁伐區域並且公告\n126405\t153091\t是依法規定的林業用地或適用林業用地的管制。二、依法劃設為原住民保護區或水源特定區。三、依法劃設在國家公園的區域。四、其他經過主管機關熱定有實施禁法的必要。因此有了這個第五條的修正之後,我們原住民族的族人才會到現在有7.2\n154311\t180492\t2萬公頃的族人,將近4萬多人的族人領到了這個所謂的土地公平正義。」所以大家在這邊不要吵來吵去了然後我們也看一下在今年我也最後對行政院長也就是陳建仁院長也經過我的總質詢行政院長的回應是什麼請大家聽好尤其原民會行政院的意思是說他會\n181914\t194360\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n203644\t226273\t我雖然同意主委今天的請假,但是在禁法補償這種涉及到原住民族土地正義的法案上面我們再回想一下,當初立法的時候,我們的民進黨的事務部移將主任他還不是主委的時候,他就公開在所有的媒體上說禁法補償這個案是乾坑法案。\n227193\t235057\t立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n245239\t254262\t地禁補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n266089\t276825\t我們可以看一下,大家一直在講預算,禁法補償目前7.2公頃補償金才23億,如果我們按照我的提案,增加2萬塊,\n279249\t296178\t增加14億左右而已耶!這14億真的會影響到我們國家的經濟的衰退?國家的經濟的整個預算嗎?然後會影響到國家的政策嗎?我們再來看一下速發部一年預算149億啊!\n298479\t317878\t他對國家、對我們這塊土地上有任何的貢獻嗎?而原住民的私人土地這是憲法被保障的,我們政府要配合政府這麼多的法規限制,我不能夠尊公眾。我們僅僅的要求,沒有過分的要求,按照林務局一樣6萬塊,按照平地休耕一樣5萬塊,我們錯在哪裡?\n323874\t330902\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n333581\t344083\t禁法補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n363667\t366449\t立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n378937\t381698\t農業部、林務局、我們的討論院跟非常多的專家學者討論為什麼要覆蓋率70%?就是因為不管是林地造林也好,不管是竹林也好,它是需要抒罰的啊。\n394725\t397766\t所以今天林務局才會講,如果有抒罰的話,同意他提高6萬塊,如果沒有賦予的是3萬塊,就是要鼓勵大家去賦予抒罰嘛,不是這樣嗎?請問我們林務部的副署長,你們來回應一下,簡單回應一下,是不是?\n417059\t428027\t及第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n441917\t457249\t各黨團、民進黨黨團、民政黨黨團、國民黨團的委員們沒有意見的話,我們就可以申讀通過。那如果大家有意見的話,我們就必須等到一個月後,我們在立法院來表決。」\n458806\t479955\t一個月之後是520,也是賴清德總統就任的時候,到底我們的總統,我們中華民國的總統,我們的民進黨團在立法院的立法委員能不能支持,就要看大家對土地這件事情的看法。」\n480575\t506786\t所以身為召委的我,待會會來審這幾條我希望這場的委員們能夠聽進去我今天的議席話也能夠符合中華民國憲法保障私人土地的這樣子的一個條文也保障原住民的土地的公平正義我再一次強調,我們這一次原住民的禁法補償是私人土地\n507486\t527042\t不是所有的保留地,而私人土地我當時計算過大概才8萬公頃,現在被申請的只有7.2萬公頃,所以它到底會造成我們國家到底多大的所謂的財政的困難?請大家三思。謝謝。謝謝我們高金委員的質詢。\n","txt":"接下來有請高金委員質詢\n謝謝主席,我們請中副組委林副署長,然後環境部的蘇組長。好,請上主委。在這裡先向在場的所有委員支持原住民族的公平正義,土地的公平正義這個禁法補償的這個修法的部分。然後另外呢,在審這個原住民保留地禁法補償條例之前,我也想先緬懷一下3月份盟主恩寵的簡東明委員。\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n都是由原住民的委員在這裡奮鬥、努力、然後要求所以我特別懷念的是簡東明委員101年的時候我還有鄭天財委員還有簡東明委員我們不斷的協商經過了六次的黨團協商我今天講沒有行政院版本是原住民的版本\n最后是在民进党委员田秋琴委员的支持之下民进党团最后签字让他三讀通过。然后108年也因为我的总质询要求有很多原住民族的范围里面被国家限制的并没有放在里头所以要求苏贞昌委\n行政院長能夠主動來提出行政院版本,因此108年也是我的總質詢,以後行政院長蘇院長也同意,所以因此有了修正第五條,這個第五條就是原住民保留地符合下列條件之一者有主管機關劃定為禁伐區域並且公告\n是依法規定的林業用地或適用林業用地的管制。二、依法劃設為原住民保護區或水源特定區。三、依法劃設在國家公園的區域。四、其他經過主管機關熱定有實施禁法的必要。因此有了這個第五條的修正之後,我們原住民族的族人才會到現在有7.2\n2萬公頃的族人,將近4萬多人的族人領到了這個所謂的土地公平正義。」所以大家在這邊不要吵來吵去了然後我們也看一下在今年我也最後對行政院長也就是陳建仁院長也經過我的總質詢行政院長的回應是什麼請大家聽好尤其原民會行政院的意思是說他會\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n我雖然同意主委今天的請假,但是在禁法補償這種涉及到原住民族土地正義的法案上面我們再回想一下,當初立法的時候,我們的民進黨的事務部移將主任他還不是主委的時候,他就公開在所有的媒體上說禁法補償這個案是乾坑法案。\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n地禁補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n我們可以看一下,大家一直在講預算,禁法補償目前7.2公頃補償金才23億,如果我們按照我的提案,增加2萬塊,\n增加14億左右而已耶!這14億真的會影響到我們國家的經濟的衰退?國家的經濟的整個預算嗎?然後會影響到國家的政策嗎?我們再來看一下速發部一年預算149億啊!\n他對國家、對我們這塊土地上有任何的貢獻嗎?而原住民的私人土地這是憲法被保障的,我們政府要配合政府這麼多的法規限制,我不能夠尊公眾。我們僅僅的要求,沒有過分的要求,按照林務局一樣6萬塊,按照平地休耕一樣5萬塊,我們錯在哪裡?\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n禁法補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具\n農業部、林務局、我們的討論院跟非常多的專家學者討論為什麼要覆蓋率70%?就是因為不管是林地造林也好,不管是竹林也好,它是需要抒罰的啊。\n所以今天林務局才會講,如果有抒罰的話,同意他提高6萬塊,如果沒有賦予的是3萬塊,就是要鼓勵大家去賦予抒罰嘛,不是這樣嗎?請問我們林務部的副署長,你們來回應一下,簡單回應一下,是不是?\n及第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n各黨團、民進黨黨團、民政黨黨團、國民黨團的委員們沒有意見的話,我們就可以申讀通過。那如果大家有意見的話,我們就必須等到一個月後,我們在立法院來表決。」\n一個月之後是520,也是賴清德總統就任的時候,到底我們的總統,我們中華民國的總統,我們的民進黨團在立法院的立法委員能不能支持,就要看大家對土地這件事情的看法。」\n所以身為召委的我,待會會來審這幾條我希望這場的委員們能夠聽進去我今天的議席話也能夠符合中華民國憲法保障私人土地的這樣子的一個條文也保障原住民的土地的公平正義我再一次強調,我們這一次原住民的禁法補償是私人土地\n不是所有的保留地,而私人土地我當時計算過大概才8萬公頃,現在被申請的只有7.2萬公頃,所以它到底會造成我們國家到底多大的所謂的財政的困難?請大家三思。謝謝。謝謝我們高金委員的質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.692 --> 00:02.481\n接下來有請高金委員質詢\n\n00:08.091 --> 00:36.043\n謝謝主席,我們請中副組委林副署長,然後環境部的蘇組長。好,請上主委。在這裡先向在場的所有委員支持原住民族的公平正義,土地的公平正義這個禁法補償的這個修法的部分。然後另外呢,在審這個原住民保留地禁法補償條例之前,我也想先緬懷一下3月份盟主恩寵的簡東明委員。\n\n00:37.244 --> 00:41.966\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n00:59.813 --> 01:21.443\n都是由原住民的委員在這裡奮鬥、努力、然後要求所以我特別懷念的是簡東明委員101年的時候我還有鄭天財委員還有簡東明委員我們不斷的協商經過了六次的黨團協商我今天講沒有行政院版本是原住民的版本\n\n01:21.983 --> 01:42.886\n最后是在民进党委员田秋琴委员的支持之下民进党团最后签字让他三讀通过。然后108年也因为我的总质询要求有很多原住民族的范围里面被国家限制的并没有放在里头所以要求苏贞昌委\n\n01:44.488 --> 02:05.685\n行政院長能夠主動來提出行政院版本,因此108年也是我的總質詢,以後行政院長蘇院長也同意,所以因此有了修正第五條,這個第五條就是原住民保留地符合下列條件之一者有主管機關劃定為禁伐區域並且公告\n\n02:06.405 --> 02:33.091\n是依法規定的林業用地或適用林業用地的管制。二、依法劃設為原住民保護區或水源特定區。三、依法劃設在國家公園的區域。四、其他經過主管機關熱定有實施禁法的必要。因此有了這個第五條的修正之後,我們原住民族的族人才會到現在有7.2\n\n02:34.311 --> 03:00.492\n2萬公頃的族人,將近4萬多人的族人領到了這個所謂的土地公平正義。」所以大家在這邊不要吵來吵去了然後我們也看一下在今年我也最後對行政院長也就是陳建仁院長也經過我的總質詢行政院長的回應是什麼請大家聽好尤其原民會行政院的意思是說他會\n\n03:01.914 --> 03:14.360\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n03:23.644 --> 03:46.273\n我雖然同意主委今天的請假,但是在禁法補償這種涉及到原住民族土地正義的法案上面我們再回想一下,當初立法的時候,我們的民進黨的事務部移將主任他還不是主委的時候,他就公開在所有的媒體上說禁法補償這個案是乾坑法案。\n\n03:47.193 --> 03:55.057\n立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:05.239 --> 04:14.262\n地禁補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:26.089 --> 04:36.825\n我們可以看一下,大家一直在講預算,禁法補償目前7.2公頃補償金才23億,如果我們按照我的提案,增加2萬塊,\n\n04:39.249 --> 04:56.178\n增加14億左右而已耶!這14億真的會影響到我們國家的經濟的衰退?國家的經濟的整個預算嗎?然後會影響到國家的政策嗎?我們再來看一下速發部一年預算149億啊!\n\n04:58.479 --> 05:17.878\n他對國家、對我們這塊土地上有任何的貢獻嗎?而原住民的私人土地這是憲法被保障的,我們政府要配合政府這麼多的法規限制,我不能夠尊公眾。我們僅僅的要求,沒有過分的要求,按照林務局一樣6萬塊,按照平地休耕一樣5萬塊,我們錯在哪裡?\n\n05:23.874 --> 05:30.902\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:33.581 --> 05:44.083\n禁法補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n06:03.667 --> 06:06.449\n立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具\n\n06:18.937 --> 06:21.698\n農業部、林務局、我們的討論院跟非常多的專家學者討論為什麼要覆蓋率70%?就是因為不管是林地造林也好,不管是竹林也好,它是需要抒罰的啊。\n\n06:34.725 --> 06:37.766\n所以今天林務局才會講,如果有抒罰的話,同意他提高6萬塊,如果沒有賦予的是3萬塊,就是要鼓勵大家去賦予抒罰嘛,不是這樣嗎?請問我們林務部的副署長,你們來回應一下,簡單回應一下,是不是?\n\n06:57.059 --> 07:08.027\n及第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。\n\n07:21.917 --> 07:37.249\n各黨團、民進黨黨團、民政黨黨團、國民黨團的委員們沒有意見的話,我們就可以申讀通過。那如果大家有意見的話,我們就必須等到一個月後,我們在立法院來表決。」\n\n07:38.806 --> 07:59.955\n一個月之後是520,也是賴清德總統就任的時候,到底我們的總統,我們中華民國的總統,我們的民進黨團在立法院的立法委員能不能支持,就要看大家對土地這件事情的看法。」\n\n08:00.575 --> 08:26.786\n所以身為召委的我,待會會來審這幾條我希望這場的委員們能夠聽進去我今天的議席話也能夠符合中華民國憲法保障私人土地的這樣子的一個條文也保障原住民的土地的公平正義我再一次強調,我們這一次原住民的禁法補償是私人土地\n\n08:27.486 --> 08:47.042\n不是所有的保留地,而私人土地我當時計算過大概才8萬公頃,現在被申請的只有7.2萬公頃,所以它到底會造成我們國家到底多大的所謂的財政的困難?請大家三思。謝謝。謝謝我們高金委員的質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.692,"end":2.481,"text":"接下來有請高金委員質詢"},{"start":8.091,"end":36.043,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請中副組委林副署長,然後環境部的蘇組長。好,請上主委。在這裡先向在場的所有委員支持原住民族的公平正義,土地的公平正義這個禁法補償的這個修法的部分。然後另外呢,在審這個原住民保留地禁法補償條例之前,我也想先緬懷一下3月份盟主恩寵的簡東明委員。"},{"start":37.244,"end":41.966,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":59.813,"end":81.443,"text":"都是由原住民的委員在這裡奮鬥、努力、然後要求所以我特別懷念的是簡東明委員101年的時候我還有鄭天財委員還有簡東明委員我們不斷的協商經過了六次的黨團協商我今天講沒有行政院版本是原住民的版本"},{"start":81.983,"end":102.886,"text":"最后是在民进党委员田秋琴委员的支持之下民进党团最后签字让他三讀通过。然后108年也因为我的总质询要求有很多原住民族的范围里面被国家限制的并没有放在里头所以要求苏贞昌委"},{"start":104.488,"end":125.685,"text":"行政院長能夠主動來提出行政院版本,因此108年也是我的總質詢,以後行政院長蘇院長也同意,所以因此有了修正第五條,這個第五條就是原住民保留地符合下列條件之一者有主管機關劃定為禁伐區域並且公告"},{"start":126.405,"end":153.091,"text":"是依法規定的林業用地或適用林業用地的管制。二、依法劃設為原住民保護區或水源特定區。三、依法劃設在國家公園的區域。四、其他經過主管機關熱定有實施禁法的必要。因此有了這個第五條的修正之後,我們原住民族的族人才會到現在有7.2"},{"start":154.311,"end":180.492,"text":"2萬公頃的族人,將近4萬多人的族人領到了這個所謂的土地公平正義。」所以大家在這邊不要吵來吵去了然後我們也看一下在今年我也最後對行政院長也就是陳建仁院長也經過我的總質詢行政院長的回應是什麼請大家聽好尤其原民會行政院的意思是說他會"},{"start":181.914,"end":194.36,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具:「原住民保留第1條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":203.644,"end":226.273,"text":"我雖然同意主委今天的請假,但是在禁法補償這種涉及到原住民族土地正義的法案上面我們再回想一下,當初立法的時候,我們的民進黨的事務部移將主任他還不是主委的時候,他就公開在所有的媒體上說禁法補償這個案是乾坑法案。"},{"start":227.193,"end":235.057,"text":"立法院第11會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":245.239,"end":254.262,"text":"地禁補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":266.089,"end":276.825,"text":"我們可以看一下,大家一直在講預算,禁法補償目前7.2公頃補償金才23億,如果我們按照我的提案,增加2萬塊,"},{"start":279.249,"end":296.178,"text":"增加14億左右而已耶!這14億真的會影響到我們國家的經濟的衰退?國家的經濟的整個預算嗎?然後會影響到國家的政策嗎?我們再來看一下速發部一年預算149億啊!"},{"start":298.479,"end":317.878,"text":"他對國家、對我們這塊土地上有任何的貢獻嗎?而原住民的私人土地這是憲法被保障的,我們政府要配合政府這麼多的法規限制,我不能夠尊公眾。我們僅僅的要求,沒有過分的要求,按照林務局一樣6萬塊,按照平地休耕一樣5萬塊,我們錯在哪裡?"},{"start":323.874,"end":330.902,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":333.581,"end":344.083,"text":"禁法補償條例第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":363.667,"end":366.449,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具:「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第6條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":378.937,"end":381.698,"text":"農業部、林務局、我們的討論院跟非常多的專家學者討論為什麼要覆蓋率70%?就是因為不管是林地造林也好,不管是竹林也好,它是需要抒罰的啊。"},{"start":394.725,"end":397.766,"text":"所以今天林務局才會講,如果有抒罰的話,同意他提高6萬塊,如果沒有賦予的是3萬塊,就是要鼓勵大家去賦予抒罰嘛,不是這樣嗎?請問我們林務部的副署長,你們來回應一下,簡單回應一下,是不是?"},{"start":417.059,"end":428.027,"text":"及第六條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":441.917,"end":457.249,"text":"各黨團、民進黨黨團、民政黨黨團、國民黨團的委員們沒有意見的話,我們就可以申讀通過。那如果大家有意見的話,我們就必須等到一個月後,我們在立法院來表決。」"},{"start":458.806,"end":479.955,"text":"一個月之後是520,也是賴清德總統就任的時候,到底我們的總統,我們中華民國的總統,我們的民進黨團在立法院的立法委員能不能支持,就要看大家對土地這件事情的看法。」"},{"start":480.575,"end":506.786,"text":"所以身為召委的我,待會會來審這幾條我希望這場的委員們能夠聽進去我今天的議席話也能夠符合中華民國憲法保障私人土地的這樣子的一個條文也保障原住民的土地的公平正義我再一次強調,我們這一次原住民的禁法補償是私人土地"},{"start":507.486,"end":527.042,"text":"不是所有的保留地,而私人土地我當時計算過大概才8萬公頃,現在被申請的只有7.2萬公頃,所以它到底會造成我們國家到底多大的所謂的財政的困難?請大家三思。謝謝。謝謝我們高金委員的質詢。"}]}}}}