{"id":151267,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151267","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627cb4988d62b2334820e5cada98db34c32c5dab72e655c1c9420b7ea364581afcb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"10:43:39 - 10:52:37","影片長度":"00:08:58","會議時間":"2024-04-17T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長王國材就「花蓮地震公路、鐵路、空運、海運應變機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「國道六號東延花蓮建設特別條例草案」案。\n【詢答及處理】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":538,"end_time":"2024-04-17T10:52:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T10:43:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":86,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（10時43分）謝謝主席，請王部長。"],["主席：王部長請。"],["王部長國材：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。本席這個會期已經三次提出這個問題，兩次在交通，一次在經濟，針對這個特別條例這是第三次了，說實在話，本席講得都已經有一點老生常談了，這個會期就講了三次。本席要再一次強調，每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益，每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取，我都覺得很合理，但是本席要再一次強調，本席絕對反對用特別條例！如果此例一開，第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則，立法委員只要誰占多數，立法委員相互支持，大家都來提特別條例嘛！我跟雪生召委已經做很多年的同事了，他長期為離島在拼命，為他的馬祖在拼命，他也很清楚地知道，你看他今天只給我五分鐘，他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講的，所以他只給我五分鐘，因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情。相信資深委員都知道，這件事情如果這樣搞可行，他早就已經針對馬祖至少提兩百個特別條例了，對不對？例如他可以提馬祖臺灣大橋特別條例，馬祖霧一來就不能動，不是他不能來開會，而是整個馬祖的鄉親很不方便啦，那要不要搞一個特別條例，馬祖直接蓋一個大橋直通臺灣，對不對？他也知道，他心中也覺得如果可行、有預算、環評都過了，可行性評估也過，政府也有錢，當然他會很支持，我也很支持，雖然我不住馬祖，他也約過我很多次，雖然我都沒有去馬祖，可是我也會支持，為什麼？這個條件一切都符合，你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢？我在當副院長的時候，他每次上臺總質詢，他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道，因為這是權力分立，現場那麼多的委員，難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎？上一次我就跟你講過，如果特別條例這種作法是可行的，我也講過大臺中發展特別條例需要1兆，請你幫我準備好，我就要提這個，不可行嘛！不能這樣搞嘛！權力分立，憲法給予立法院什麼職權？我們叫五權分立，大家不滿意，改為三權我都沒意見，那個都是大家可以討論的，在民主社會、民主政治裡面都可以討論，但現行五權分立的架構裡面，立法院負責什麼、行政院負責什麼，大家清清楚楚，這樣國家才有辦法運作嘛！","回到國道六號的延伸，本席過去也曾經講過，這個是國家重大建設，這條如果通的話，那臺中到花蓮很近嘛，所以交通部現在也在進行，你們叫做地表地質的調查，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查？"],["王部長國材：那個地方在中央山脈的確碰到很多岩爆，還有地質斷層的一些……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯，所以它是很務實、科學的，我們要面對很多環團對於環境的質疑，蓋了這一條路，對臺灣原生的植物、動物，對臺灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊？我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估，我們不應該再相信人定勝天，一個地震，你看我們今天都還要為地震進行相關討論，臺灣這個多地震的島嶼，我們不斷的在祈福，不斷的在努力，設法讓災害降至最低。沒辦法，我們克服不了天，它要讓我們地震就地震，但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統，我們提供怎麼樣的防震法規條文，讓房子蓋得更堅固，所以我們只能在上天憐憫的情況底下，我們盡其人類的可能來做。","一樣的道理，當我們面對國家重大建設，我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼？所以針對國道六號，我不會在一開始就毫無理性的說贊成或反對，但我遵照行政機關這麼多年下來的一套評估程序，這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情，我們必須從地質的調查開始，另外還有很多，包括原住民的問題、斷層的問題，以後這一條會不會經過多少地震斷層帶的問題，詳細把它研究好之後，如果覺得這是可以克服的，我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估，接著可行性評估如果又過關了，可行性評估當然包括環評，如果這些都過關了，我們才有細部設計、才有綜合規劃，這個就是一個流程，這個就是行政流程，這個就是評估任何一個重大建設理性務實的角度，不理盲、不衝撞，不因為政治口水淹沒了我們的專業，這個也是未來這個建設能夠成功，要說服民眾、說服跟我們意見不同的人，我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據，這個就是這一套嘛！","我已經講了第三次，今天只剩下五分鐘，但我還是必須再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲，本席對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設，我都沒意見，但是用特別條例的方式，如果此例一開，我跟大家保證，每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提。我常常跟你們講，我對人行道、人孔蓋都不滿嘛，我有人孔蓋發展特別條例，我有水溝興建特別條例，一大堆，我都準備好了，如果這個可行、這樣惡搞可行的話。","所以本席還是再三呼籲，立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展講話，本席都覺得很棒、很肯定，但是我們立法委員不可以帶頭毀憲亂政，用這種明顯違反權力分立原則的方式，我們立法院已經11屆了，不是第1屆。","最後，因為時間已經到了，我只提醒一點，對於震後，現在我們在談應變機制，事實上已經開始應變了，但是本席比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興。大家知道，這兩年已經先天不良，從疫情結束之後，發生了國人旅遊型態的改變、缺工的問題、觀光客結構的調整，我們從過去的陸客要調整到國際觀光客，這些都讓這兩年的觀光產業面臨很大的危機，很辛苦。花蓮靠觀光產業，又面臨這麼嚴重的地震，因為時間的關係，我沒有辦法花時間跟你認真討論，但本席希望對於花蓮震後觀光的振興，交通部觀光署一定要提出計畫。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：只要你們有想法，本席再就教你們。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：但是我覺得要積極面對，特別像花東的觀光產業其實是很需要的，我們一起來努力。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：譬如我也再請職棒聯盟評估，看看可不可以透過職棒比賽帶動西部的觀光客、球迷過去那邊，讓他們在那邊住一晚、兩晚，帶動地方的消費，這也是一個方法。聯盟是民間，職籃也可以，但是政府應該有一個計畫，我們民間單位都很願意配合觀光署，譬如職棒聯盟也來配合觀光署，看你們有什麼樣的政策，大家一起來做，把人帶進去，好不好？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：謝謝蔡副院長。"],["主席：謝謝蔡副院長對馬祖的支持，希望你第4次發言繼續幫我們發聲，謝謝。"],["蔡委員其昌：不要再吵這個了。"],["主席：剛才你講馬祖的時間我都幫你扣掉了。"],["蔡委員其昌：我知道，我有發現。"],["主席：下一位請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","傅崐萁","蔡其昌","游顥","林俊憲","何欣純","陳素月","林國成","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃健豪","徐富癸","廖先翔","王世堅","許宇甄","麥玉珍","邱若華","鄭天財Sra 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,412 --> 00:00:25,020\n謝謝主席請王部長王部長請部長早部長我想本席這個會期就已經三次三次兩次在交通一次在經濟針對這個特別條例\n\n2\n00:00:28,226 --> 00:00:48,736\n這是第三次啦說實在話本席講的都已經有一點這個老生常談這個會期就講了三次本席要再一次強調每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取我都覺得很合理\n\n3\n00:00:49,827 --> 00:01:16,213\n但是本席要再一次強調本席絕對反對用特別條例此例如果一開第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則立法委員只要誰佔多數立法委員相互支持大家都來提特別條例我跟雪生昭偉已經做很多年的同事了他長期為離島在拼命為他的馬祖在拼命\n\n4\n00:01:17,861 --> 00:01:42,966\n他也很清楚地知道他今天只給我5分鐘嘛他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講了啦所以他只給我5分鐘嘛因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情因為資深委員就知道這件事情如果這樣搞可行他早就已經提在馬祖至少提200個特別條例了啦對不對馬祖台灣啊馬祖台灣大橋特別條例他不用再\n\n5\n00:01:44,545 --> 00:02:12,576\n媽祖一誤來就不能動不是他不能來開會是整個媽祖的鄉親很不方便那搞不搞一個特別條例媽祖直接蓋一個大橋直通台灣對不對他也知道他心中也覺得如果可行有預算還評都過了可行性評估也過政府也有錢當然他也很支持我也很支持雖然我不住媽祖他也約過很多次我都沒有去媽祖\n\n6\n00:02:13,564 --> 00:02:32,177\n可是我也會支持為什麼這個條件一切都符合所以他你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢我在當副院長的時候他每次上台總質詢他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道因為這是權力分立啦\n\n7\n00:02:33,175 --> 00:02:52,686\n這是權力分立啦現場那麼多的委員難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎?上一次我這邊也講過嘛如果特別條例這種做法是可行的我也講過啊大台中發展特別條例一照啦請你幫我準備好我就要提這個不可行嘛不能這樣搞嘛\n\n8\n00:02:53,806 --> 00:03:11,608\n全力分立憲法給予立法院什麽職權我們叫五權分立大家不滿意改三權我都沒意見那個都是大家可以討論在民主社會民主政治裡面都可以討論但現行的架構五權分立的架構裡面立法院負責什麽行政院負責什麽大家清清楚楚\n\n9\n00:03:12,819 --> 00:03:37,627\n國家這樣才有辦法運作嘛所以回到國道六號的延伸本席過去也曾經講過嘛這個是國家重大建設這一條如果通的話那台中到花蓮很近嘛所以交通部現在也在進行你們叫做地質、地表地質的調查對不對那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查\n\n10\n00:03:38,985 --> 00:03:52,450\n表示那個地方在狀況上面的確碰到很多這個原爆啦還有一些這個地質斷層的沒有錯所以他是很務實科學我們要面對很多還團對於環境的質疑\n\n11\n00:03:56,218 --> 00:04:10,645\n對台灣的這些原生的植物動物對台灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估我們不應該再相信人定勝天嘛\n\n12\n00:04:11,707 --> 00:04:30,905\n一個地震你看我們今天都還要為地震臺灣這個多地震的島嶼我們不斷的在祈福不斷的在努力怎麼讓災害沒辦法我們克服不了天他要讓我們地震就地震但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統我們提供怎麼樣的防震的法規條文來防止蓋的更堅固\n\n13\n00:04:32,253 --> 00:04:51,164\n所以我們只能在上天啊憐憫的情況底下我們盡其人類的可能來做所以一樣的道理當我們面對國家重大建設我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼所以國道六號我不會說我一開始就說毫無理性的我就贊成或反對但我遵照\n\n14\n00:04:52,813 --> 00:05:00,704\n我們行政機關這麼多年下來我們有一套評估的程序這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情我們必須從地質的調查\n\n15\n00:05:03,612 --> 00:05:31,661\n很多包括原住民的等等問題斷層的問題以後這一條會不會面對有經過多少地震斷層帶的問題詳細把它研究好之後如果覺得這個是可以克服我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估然後接著可行性評估如果又過關了可行性評估當然包括環評嘛都過關了我們才有細部設計才有綜合規劃嘛這個就是一個流程這個就是行政流程\n\n16\n00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:56,522\n這個就是任何評估一個重大建設理性務實的角度不禮盲、不沖狀、不因為政治口水淹沒了我們這個專業這個也是未來我們這個建設能夠成功要說服民眾說服跟我們意見不同的人我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據這個就是這一套嘛所以我已經講了第三次今天只剩下五分鐘\n\n17\n00:05:58,188 --> 00:06:23,297\n但是我還是必須要再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲本期對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設我都沒意見但是用特別條例的方式如果此例一開我跟大家保證每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提我常常跟你們講我對我們那個人行道、人孔蓋我都不滿我有人孔蓋發展特別條例\n\n18\n00:06:24,909 --> 00:06:41,705\n我有水溝興建特別條例我都一大堆我準備好了嘛如果這個可行這樣二稿可行的話所以本席還是再三呼籲啦立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展來講話本席都覺得很棒很肯定\n\n19\n00:06:42,830 --> 00:07:02,097\n但是我們不可以立法委員帶頭把違憲亂政把這種明顯就違反權力分立的原則這種方式如果可以搞過去我們立法院已經11屆了立法院不是第一屆啦所以本席還是再一次這樣最後我只提醒一點因為時間已經到了我只提醒一點\n\n20\n00:07:03,612 --> 00:07:25,739\n對於震後就是現在我們在談這個所謂應變機制這個因為事實上已經開始應變但是本期比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興因為大家知道先天這兩年已經先天不亮從疫情結束之後國人旅遊型態的改變缺工的問題結構的這種調整\n\n21\n00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,080\n〈花蓮地震公路〉\n\n22\n00:08:19,122 --> 00:08:31,097\n指放聯盟來評估嘛我們指放可以帶動可不可以透過指放的比賽然後帶動西部的觀光客的球迷就過去那邊然後可以讓他住就住\n\n23\n00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:31,980\n謝謝蔡委員長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6412\t25020\t謝謝主席請王部長王部長請部長早部長我想本席這個會期就已經三次三次兩次在交通一次在經濟針對這個特別條例\n28226\t48736\t這是第三次啦說實在話本席講的都已經有一點這個老生常談這個會期就講了三次本席要再一次強調每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取我都覺得很合理\n49827\t76213\t但是本席要再一次強調本席絕對反對用特別條例此例如果一開第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則立法委員只要誰佔多數立法委員相互支持大家都來提特別條例我跟雪生昭偉已經做很多年的同事了他長期為離島在拼命為他的馬祖在拼命\n77861\t102966\t他也很清楚地知道他今天只給我5分鐘嘛他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講了啦所以他只給我5分鐘嘛因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情因為資深委員就知道這件事情如果這樣搞可行他早就已經提在馬祖至少提200個特別條例了啦對不對馬祖台灣啊馬祖台灣大橋特別條例他不用再\n104545\t132576\t媽祖一誤來就不能動不是他不能來開會是整個媽祖的鄉親很不方便那搞不搞一個特別條例媽祖直接蓋一個大橋直通台灣對不對他也知道他心中也覺得如果可行有預算還評都過了可行性評估也過政府也有錢當然他也很支持我也很支持雖然我不住媽祖他也約過很多次我都沒有去媽祖\n133564\t152177\t可是我也會支持為什麼這個條件一切都符合所以他你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢我在當副院長的時候他每次上台總質詢他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道因為這是權力分立啦\n153175\t172686\t這是權力分立啦現場那麼多的委員難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎?上一次我這邊也講過嘛如果特別條例這種做法是可行的我也講過啊大台中發展特別條例一照啦請你幫我準備好我就要提這個不可行嘛不能這樣搞嘛\n173806\t191608\t全力分立憲法給予立法院什麽職權我們叫五權分立大家不滿意改三權我都沒意見那個都是大家可以討論在民主社會民主政治裡面都可以討論但現行的架構五權分立的架構裡面立法院負責什麽行政院負責什麽大家清清楚楚\n192819\t217627\t國家這樣才有辦法運作嘛所以回到國道六號的延伸本席過去也曾經講過嘛這個是國家重大建設這一條如果通的話那台中到花蓮很近嘛所以交通部現在也在進行你們叫做地質、地表地質的調查對不對那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查\n218985\t232450\t表示那個地方在狀況上面的確碰到很多這個原爆啦還有一些這個地質斷層的沒有錯所以他是很務實科學我們要面對很多還團對於環境的質疑\n236218\t250645\t對台灣的這些原生的植物動物對台灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估我們不應該再相信人定勝天嘛\n251707\t270905\t一個地震你看我們今天都還要為地震臺灣這個多地震的島嶼我們不斷的在祈福不斷的在努力怎麼讓災害沒辦法我們克服不了天他要讓我們地震就地震但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統我們提供怎麼樣的防震的法規條文來防止蓋的更堅固\n272253\t291164\t所以我們只能在上天啊憐憫的情況底下我們盡其人類的可能來做所以一樣的道理當我們面對國家重大建設我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼所以國道六號我不會說我一開始就說毫無理性的我就贊成或反對但我遵照\n292813\t300704\t我們行政機關這麼多年下來我們有一套評估的程序這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情我們必須從地質的調查\n303612\t331661\t很多包括原住民的等等問題斷層的問題以後這一條會不會面對有經過多少地震斷層帶的問題詳細把它研究好之後如果覺得這個是可以克服我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估然後接著可行性評估如果又過關了可行性評估當然包括環評嘛都過關了我們才有細部設計才有綜合規劃嘛這個就是一個流程這個就是行政流程\n333033\t356522\t這個就是任何評估一個重大建設理性務實的角度不禮盲、不沖狀、不因為政治口水淹沒了我們這個專業這個也是未來我們這個建設能夠成功要說服民眾說服跟我們意見不同的人我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據這個就是這一套嘛所以我已經講了第三次今天只剩下五分鐘\n358188\t383297\t但是我還是必須要再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲本期對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設我都沒意見但是用特別條例的方式如果此例一開我跟大家保證每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提我常常跟你們講我對我們那個人行道、人孔蓋我都不滿我有人孔蓋發展特別條例\n384909\t401705\t我有水溝興建特別條例我都一大堆我準備好了嘛如果這個可行這樣二稿可行的話所以本席還是再三呼籲啦立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展來講話本席都覺得很棒很肯定\n402830\t422097\t但是我們不可以立法委員帶頭把違憲亂政把這種明顯就違反權力分立的原則這種方式如果可以搞過去我們立法院已經11屆了立法院不是第一屆啦所以本席還是再一次這樣最後我只提醒一點因為時間已經到了我只提醒一點\n423612\t445739\t對於震後就是現在我們在談這個所謂應變機制這個因為事實上已經開始應變但是本期比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興因為大家知道先天這兩年已經先天不亮從疫情結束之後國人旅遊型態的改變缺工的問題結構的這種調整\n448360\t449080\t〈花蓮地震公路〉\n476493\t499002\t﹏﹏﹏\n499122\t511097\t指放聯盟來評估嘛我們指放可以帶動可不可以透過指放的比賽然後帶動西部的觀光客的球迷就過去那邊然後可以讓他住就住\n511920\t511980\t謝謝蔡委員長\n","txt":"謝謝主席請王部長王部長請部長早部長我想本席這個會期就已經三次三次兩次在交通一次在經濟針對這個特別條例\n這是第三次啦說實在話本席講的都已經有一點這個老生常談這個會期就講了三次本席要再一次強調每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取我都覺得很合理\n但是本席要再一次強調本席絕對反對用特別條例此例如果一開第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則立法委員只要誰佔多數立法委員相互支持大家都來提特別條例我跟雪生昭偉已經做很多年的同事了他長期為離島在拼命為他的馬祖在拼命\n他也很清楚地知道他今天只給我5分鐘嘛他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講了啦所以他只給我5分鐘嘛因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情因為資深委員就知道這件事情如果這樣搞可行他早就已經提在馬祖至少提200個特別條例了啦對不對馬祖台灣啊馬祖台灣大橋特別條例他不用再\n媽祖一誤來就不能動不是他不能來開會是整個媽祖的鄉親很不方便那搞不搞一個特別條例媽祖直接蓋一個大橋直通台灣對不對他也知道他心中也覺得如果可行有預算還評都過了可行性評估也過政府也有錢當然他也很支持我也很支持雖然我不住媽祖他也約過很多次我都沒有去媽祖\n可是我也會支持為什麼這個條件一切都符合所以他你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢我在當副院長的時候他每次上台總質詢他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道因為這是權力分立啦\n這是權力分立啦現場那麼多的委員難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎?上一次我這邊也講過嘛如果特別條例這種做法是可行的我也講過啊大台中發展特別條例一照啦請你幫我準備好我就要提這個不可行嘛不能這樣搞嘛\n全力分立憲法給予立法院什麽職權我們叫五權分立大家不滿意改三權我都沒意見那個都是大家可以討論在民主社會民主政治裡面都可以討論但現行的架構五權分立的架構裡面立法院負責什麽行政院負責什麽大家清清楚楚\n國家這樣才有辦法運作嘛所以回到國道六號的延伸本席過去也曾經講過嘛這個是國家重大建設這一條如果通的話那台中到花蓮很近嘛所以交通部現在也在進行你們叫做地質、地表地質的調查對不對那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查\n表示那個地方在狀況上面的確碰到很多這個原爆啦還有一些這個地質斷層的沒有錯所以他是很務實科學我們要面對很多還團對於環境的質疑\n對台灣的這些原生的植物動物對台灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估我們不應該再相信人定勝天嘛\n一個地震你看我們今天都還要為地震臺灣這個多地震的島嶼我們不斷的在祈福不斷的在努力怎麼讓災害沒辦法我們克服不了天他要讓我們地震就地震但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統我們提供怎麼樣的防震的法規條文來防止蓋的更堅固\n所以我們只能在上天啊憐憫的情況底下我們盡其人類的可能來做所以一樣的道理當我們面對國家重大建設我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼所以國道六號我不會說我一開始就說毫無理性的我就贊成或反對但我遵照\n我們行政機關這麼多年下來我們有一套評估的程序這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情我們必須從地質的調查\n很多包括原住民的等等問題斷層的問題以後這一條會不會面對有經過多少地震斷層帶的問題詳細把它研究好之後如果覺得這個是可以克服我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估然後接著可行性評估如果又過關了可行性評估當然包括環評嘛都過關了我們才有細部設計才有綜合規劃嘛這個就是一個流程這個就是行政流程\n這個就是任何評估一個重大建設理性務實的角度不禮盲、不沖狀、不因為政治口水淹沒了我們這個專業這個也是未來我們這個建設能夠成功要說服民眾說服跟我們意見不同的人我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據這個就是這一套嘛所以我已經講了第三次今天只剩下五分鐘\n但是我還是必須要再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲本期對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設我都沒意見但是用特別條例的方式如果此例一開我跟大家保證每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提我常常跟你們講我對我們那個人行道、人孔蓋我都不滿我有人孔蓋發展特別條例\n我有水溝興建特別條例我都一大堆我準備好了嘛如果這個可行這樣二稿可行的話所以本席還是再三呼籲啦立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展來講話本席都覺得很棒很肯定\n但是我們不可以立法委員帶頭把違憲亂政把這種明顯就違反權力分立的原則這種方式如果可以搞過去我們立法院已經11屆了立法院不是第一屆啦所以本席還是再一次這樣最後我只提醒一點因為時間已經到了我只提醒一點\n對於震後就是現在我們在談這個所謂應變機制這個因為事實上已經開始應變但是本期比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興因為大家知道先天這兩年已經先天不亮從疫情結束之後國人旅遊型態的改變缺工的問題結構的這種調整\n〈花蓮地震公路〉\n﹏﹏﹏\n指放聯盟來評估嘛我們指放可以帶動可不可以透過指放的比賽然後帶動西部的觀光客的球迷就過去那邊然後可以讓他住就住\n謝謝蔡委員長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.412 --> 00:25.020\n謝謝主席請王部長王部長請部長早部長我想本席這個會期就已經三次三次兩次在交通一次在經濟針對這個特別條例\n\n00:28.226 --> 00:48.736\n這是第三次啦說實在話本席講的都已經有一點這個老生常談這個會期就講了三次本席要再一次強調每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取我都覺得很合理\n\n00:49.827 --> 01:16.213\n但是本席要再一次強調本席絕對反對用特別條例此例如果一開第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則立法委員只要誰佔多數立法委員相互支持大家都來提特別條例我跟雪生昭偉已經做很多年的同事了他長期為離島在拼命為他的馬祖在拼命\n\n01:17.861 --> 01:42.966\n他也很清楚地知道他今天只給我5分鐘嘛他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講了啦所以他只給我5分鐘嘛因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情因為資深委員就知道這件事情如果這樣搞可行他早就已經提在馬祖至少提200個特別條例了啦對不對馬祖台灣啊馬祖台灣大橋特別條例他不用再\n\n01:44.545 --> 02:12.576\n媽祖一誤來就不能動不是他不能來開會是整個媽祖的鄉親很不方便那搞不搞一個特別條例媽祖直接蓋一個大橋直通台灣對不對他也知道他心中也覺得如果可行有預算還評都過了可行性評估也過政府也有錢當然他也很支持我也很支持雖然我不住媽祖他也約過很多次我都沒有去媽祖\n\n02:13.564 --> 02:32.177\n可是我也會支持為什麼這個條件一切都符合所以他你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢我在當副院長的時候他每次上台總質詢他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道因為這是權力分立啦\n\n02:33.175 --> 02:52.686\n這是權力分立啦現場那麼多的委員難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎?上一次我這邊也講過嘛如果特別條例這種做法是可行的我也講過啊大台中發展特別條例一照啦請你幫我準備好我就要提這個不可行嘛不能這樣搞嘛\n\n02:53.806 --> 03:11.608\n全力分立憲法給予立法院什麽職權我們叫五權分立大家不滿意改三權我都沒意見那個都是大家可以討論在民主社會民主政治裡面都可以討論但現行的架構五權分立的架構裡面立法院負責什麽行政院負責什麽大家清清楚楚\n\n03:12.819 --> 03:37.627\n國家這樣才有辦法運作嘛所以回到國道六號的延伸本席過去也曾經講過嘛這個是國家重大建設這一條如果通的話那台中到花蓮很近嘛所以交通部現在也在進行你們叫做地質、地表地質的調查對不對那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查\n\n03:38.985 --> 03:52.450\n表示那個地方在狀況上面的確碰到很多這個原爆啦還有一些這個地質斷層的沒有錯所以他是很務實科學我們要面對很多還團對於環境的質疑\n\n03:56.218 --> 04:10.645\n對台灣的這些原生的植物動物對台灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估我們不應該再相信人定勝天嘛\n\n04:11.707 --> 04:30.905\n一個地震你看我們今天都還要為地震臺灣這個多地震的島嶼我們不斷的在祈福不斷的在努力怎麼讓災害沒辦法我們克服不了天他要讓我們地震就地震但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統我們提供怎麼樣的防震的法規條文來防止蓋的更堅固\n\n04:32.253 --> 04:51.164\n所以我們只能在上天啊憐憫的情況底下我們盡其人類的可能來做所以一樣的道理當我們面對國家重大建設我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼所以國道六號我不會說我一開始就說毫無理性的我就贊成或反對但我遵照\n\n04:52.813 --> 05:00.704\n我們行政機關這麼多年下來我們有一套評估的程序這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情我們必須從地質的調查\n\n05:03.612 --> 05:31.661\n很多包括原住民的等等問題斷層的問題以後這一條會不會面對有經過多少地震斷層帶的問題詳細把它研究好之後如果覺得這個是可以克服我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估然後接著可行性評估如果又過關了可行性評估當然包括環評嘛都過關了我們才有細部設計才有綜合規劃嘛這個就是一個流程這個就是行政流程\n\n05:33.033 --> 05:56.522\n這個就是任何評估一個重大建設理性務實的角度不禮盲、不沖狀、不因為政治口水淹沒了我們這個專業這個也是未來我們這個建設能夠成功要說服民眾說服跟我們意見不同的人我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據這個就是這一套嘛所以我已經講了第三次今天只剩下五分鐘\n\n05:58.188 --> 06:23.297\n但是我還是必須要再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲本期對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設我都沒意見但是用特別條例的方式如果此例一開我跟大家保證每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提我常常跟你們講我對我們那個人行道、人孔蓋我都不滿我有人孔蓋發展特別條例\n\n06:24.909 --> 06:41.705\n我有水溝興建特別條例我都一大堆我準備好了嘛如果這個可行這樣二稿可行的話所以本席還是再三呼籲啦立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展來講話本席都覺得很棒很肯定\n\n06:42.830 --> 07:02.097\n但是我們不可以立法委員帶頭把違憲亂政把這種明顯就違反權力分立的原則這種方式如果可以搞過去我們立法院已經11屆了立法院不是第一屆啦所以本席還是再一次這樣最後我只提醒一點因為時間已經到了我只提醒一點\n\n07:03.612 --> 07:25.739\n對於震後就是現在我們在談這個所謂應變機制這個因為事實上已經開始應變但是本期比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興因為大家知道先天這兩年已經先天不亮從疫情結束之後國人旅遊型態的改變缺工的問題結構的這種調整\n\n07:28.360 --> 07:29.080\n〈花蓮地震公路〉\n\n08:19.122 --> 08:31.097\n指放聯盟來評估嘛我們指放可以帶動可不可以透過指放的比賽然後帶動西部的觀光客的球迷就過去那邊然後可以讓他住就住\n\n08:31.920 --> 08:31.980\n謝謝蔡委員長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.412,"end":25.02,"text":"謝謝主席請王部長王部長請部長早部長我想本席這個會期就已經三次三次兩次在交通一次在經濟針對這個特別條例"},{"start":28.226,"end":48.736,"text":"這是第三次啦說實在話本席講的都已經有一點這個老生常談這個會期就講了三次本席要再一次強調每一個委員為自己的選區爭取權益每一個委員為國家重大建設發展來爭取我都覺得很合理"},{"start":49.827,"end":76.213,"text":"但是本席要再一次強調本席絕對反對用特別條例此例如果一開第一個破壞了憲法權力分立的原則立法委員只要誰佔多數立法委員相互支持大家都來提特別條例我跟雪生昭偉已經做很多年的同事了他長期為離島在拼命為他的馬祖在拼命"},{"start":77.861,"end":102.966,"text":"他也很清楚地知道他今天只給我5分鐘嘛他也很清楚地知道這個題目沒什麼好講了啦所以他只給我5分鐘嘛因為他知道我上來又要批評這件事情因為資深委員就知道這件事情如果這樣搞可行他早就已經提在馬祖至少提200個特別條例了啦對不對馬祖台灣啊馬祖台灣大橋特別條例他不用再"},{"start":104.545,"end":132.576,"text":"媽祖一誤來就不能動不是他不能來開會是整個媽祖的鄉親很不方便那搞不搞一個特別條例媽祖直接蓋一個大橋直通台灣對不對他也知道他心中也覺得如果可行有預算還評都過了可行性評估也過政府也有錢當然他也很支持我也很支持雖然我不住媽祖他也約過很多次我都沒有去媽祖"},{"start":133.564,"end":152.177,"text":"可是我也會支持為什麼這個條件一切都符合所以他你看他為什麼那麼多年很認真在立法院質詢我在當副院長的時候他每次上台總質詢他都很認真把馬祖鄉親的需求讓行政部門知道因為這是權力分立啦"},{"start":153.175,"end":172.686,"text":"這是權力分立啦現場那麼多的委員難道每一個選區沒有需要的嗎?上一次我這邊也講過嘛如果特別條例這種做法是可行的我也講過啊大台中發展特別條例一照啦請你幫我準備好我就要提這個不可行嘛不能這樣搞嘛"},{"start":173.806,"end":191.608,"text":"全力分立憲法給予立法院什麽職權我們叫五權分立大家不滿意改三權我都沒意見那個都是大家可以討論在民主社會民主政治裡面都可以討論但現行的架構五權分立的架構裡面立法院負責什麽行政院負責什麽大家清清楚楚"},{"start":192.819,"end":217.627,"text":"國家這樣才有辦法運作嘛所以回到國道六號的延伸本席過去也曾經講過嘛這個是國家重大建設這一條如果通的話那台中到花蓮很近嘛所以交通部現在也在進行你們叫做地質、地表地質的調查對不對那你為什麼要做地表地質的調查"},{"start":218.985,"end":232.45,"text":"表示那個地方在狀況上面的確碰到很多這個原爆啦還有一些這個地質斷層的沒有錯所以他是很務實科學我們要面對很多還團對於環境的質疑"},{"start":236.218,"end":250.645,"text":"對台灣的這些原生的植物動物對台灣的環境有沒有產生什麼樣的衝擊我們必須把對環境的衝擊跟影響做一個很完整的評估我們不應該再相信人定勝天嘛"},{"start":251.707,"end":270.905,"text":"一個地震你看我們今天都還要為地震臺灣這個多地震的島嶼我們不斷的在祈福不斷的在努力怎麼讓災害沒辦法我們克服不了天他要讓我們地震就地震但我們提供怎麼樣的預警系統我們提供怎麼樣的防震的法規條文來防止蓋的更堅固"},{"start":272.253,"end":291.164,"text":"所以我們只能在上天啊憐憫的情況底下我們盡其人類的可能來做所以一樣的道理當我們面對國家重大建設我們第一個要想到我們要挑戰天要挑戰什麼所以國道六號我不會說我一開始就說毫無理性的我就贊成或反對但我遵照"},{"start":292.813,"end":300.704,"text":"我們行政機關這麼多年下來我們有一套評估的程序這個評估的程序就是類似像這個事情我們必須從地質的調查"},{"start":303.612,"end":331.661,"text":"很多包括原住民的等等問題斷層的問題以後這一條會不會面對有經過多少地震斷層帶的問題詳細把它研究好之後如果覺得這個是可以克服我們就進入下一個階段叫做可行性評估然後接著可行性評估如果又過關了可行性評估當然包括環評嘛都過關了我們才有細部設計才有綜合規劃嘛這個就是一個流程這個就是行政流程"},{"start":333.033,"end":356.522,"text":"這個就是任何評估一個重大建設理性務實的角度不禮盲、不沖狀、不因為政治口水淹沒了我們這個專業這個也是未來我們這個建設能夠成功要說服民眾說服跟我們意見不同的人我們有一個基本的科學理性的根據這個就是這一套嘛所以我已經講了第三次今天只剩下五分鐘"},{"start":358.188,"end":383.297,"text":"但是我還是必須要再一次在這裡大聲的呼籲本期對於每一個委員要提案去爭取建設我都沒意見但是用特別條例的方式如果此例一開我跟大家保證每一個人都有幾百個特別條例要提我常常跟你們講我對我們那個人行道、人孔蓋我都不滿我有人孔蓋發展特別條例"},{"start":384.909,"end":401.705,"text":"我有水溝興建特別條例我都一大堆我準備好了嘛如果這個可行這樣二稿可行的話所以本席還是再三呼籲啦立法院立法委員大家很努力要為地方發展來講話本席都覺得很棒很肯定"},{"start":402.83,"end":422.097,"text":"但是我們不可以立法委員帶頭把違憲亂政把這種明顯就違反權力分立的原則這種方式如果可以搞過去我們立法院已經11屆了立法院不是第一屆啦所以本席還是再一次這樣最後我只提醒一點因為時間已經到了我只提醒一點"},{"start":423.612,"end":445.739,"text":"對於震後就是現在我們在談這個所謂應變機制這個因為事實上已經開始應變但是本期比較關心的是震後花蓮觀光產業的振興因為大家知道先天這兩年已經先天不亮從疫情結束之後國人旅遊型態的改變缺工的問題結構的這種調整"},{"start":448.36,"end":449.08,"text":"〈花蓮地震公路〉"},{"start":476.493,"end":499.002,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":499.122,"end":511.097,"text":"指放聯盟來評估嘛我們指放可以帶動可不可以透過指放的比賽然後帶動西部的觀光客的球迷就過去那邊然後可以讓他住就住"},{"start":511.92,"end":511.98,"text":"謝謝蔡委員長"}]}}}}