{"id":151271,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151271","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016274dfa784c0e1c58cdb57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c941052946088e6d4215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:09:32 - 11:15:39","影片長度":"00:06:07","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":367,"end_time":"2024-04-17T11:15:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T11:09:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":765,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時9分）謝謝主席。薛部長，有請。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長早安。"],["薛部長富盛：早！"],["牛委員煦庭：今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量，因為時間有限，我們就沒辦法每個題目都討論。看到這份報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋僅以一句話帶過去，本席跟涂權吉委員一樣，也對此非常有意見。現在只有臺北市和新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理家戶廢棄物，請問有沒有成效？"],["薛部長富盛：成效很好啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：成效很好對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是、是、是。"],["牛委員煦庭：那部長知道為什麼其他地方的縣市政府試行推動的時候，大部分的基層民眾都聞袋色變，不是因為垃圾很臭，而是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策就非常緊張，好像政府來搶錢一樣。這是老問題了，對不對？部長知道這個事嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是啊！就是大家認為垃圾袋以前不是都免費的嗎？現在還要付費！"],["牛委員煦庭：應該說是自行購買，因為統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：對啊！所以這是觀念改變啦！就如同我們現在收碳費也是一樣，以前排放碳是很正常的啊，但是會造成氣候暖化。同樣的，現在塑膠微粒的問題也很嚴重啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：對！所以這個政策要推，對不對？部裡面的意見是這樣，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是，牛委員應該要支持啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：請問現在垃圾費隨袋徵收是中央政策還是地方政策？"],["薛部長富盛：是中央訂的政策，我們希望地方能夠來配合推動，但是不強制，因為要因地制宜嘛！有時候您也瞭解其實不管桃園或其他縣市……"],["牛委員煦庭：我今天花時間討論就是這個原因，因為你講是中央政策，但是讓地方因地制宜的時候，其實就會發生現在這樣的狀況。我們談專用垃圾袋政策已經談了十幾年，但實際上真的有做的也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果，推動的時候有很多窒礙難行的地方，所以本席的意見是這樣，既然你講這是中央的政策，那就要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛！不管是預算也好，政策宣導也好，技術支援也好，甚至部分的強制力也好，其實這都是地方政府在執行中央訂定的遊戲規則時需要的武器嘛！但是目前為止，中央給了地方哪些東西？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上我們有補助喔！假如它願意去推動，像桃園已經有8個里在推動，我們就會給他們一些補助當成誘因，當然，這些誘因我們是希望越大越好，可是環境部本身的資源有限。"],["牛委員煦庭：其實桃園最近試辦裡面有幾個里就在本席的選區……"],["薛部長富盛：是、是、是。"],["牛委員煦庭：其實是有成效的，但是……"],["薛部長富盛：OK，非常好！"],["牛委員煦庭：但是因為要再擴大實施的時候，相對來講就會進入政策的深水區，就是要溝通、協調等等，我覺得你要把部分地區的試辦擴大到全市通用的時候，其實地方政府一定壓力很大，壓力很大的時候，面對民眾的質疑，本身溝通就很困難，如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持，比方說大量的預算，甚至譬如有階段性的費用減免或怎麼樣來做調整的話，其實地方的武器就很有限。所以中央除了現階段的試辦補貼計畫之外，現在是否有在研擬別的方法？有沒有更多的資源和更多的政策可以支持地方？"],["薛部長富盛：牛委員對中央當然期許很大，但是我必須很坦白地告訴牛委員，事實上環境部的預算也不是很多，所以以一個環境部的預算要來照顧到全臺灣各個鄉鎮、縣市是有它一定的挑戰，環境部事實上也給地方滿多的支援，譬如空污裡面的費用……"],["牛委員煦庭：空污是空污，我們……"],["薛部長富盛：還有資源循環的部分……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們今天討論的是廢棄物減量的策進作為，我想我們的共識是，專用垃圾袋的政策是有助於廢棄物減量的，既然是這樣，它其實就是相對減碳的東西，本來就值得環境部投入資源，所以我希望環境部去做個研擬，就是除了現行機制之外，怎麼樣來優化，讓地方政府更加願意來做這樣政策的說明？這是第一個。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝牛委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：第二個是去化的部分，因為桃園正在進行焚化爐歲修，又進入垃圾危機的時代，我相信很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境，環境部從統合全部廢棄物減量政策的中央主管機關的角度，你覺得怎麼因應個別縣市遇到的去化問題？"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，桃園的我們已經協助跟雲林和臺北市來討論了，本來臺北市有幫雲林，所以我們就希望雲林是不是有一部分先讓給桃園？因為桃園離臺北更進，將來運送的費用更便宜，等桃園整修完了之後，將來協助雲林來處理，這樣……"],["牛委員煦庭：這就是本席要講的第二個概念，就是垃圾去化的區域聯防，互相之間彼此跑位……"],["薛部長富盛：認同，很好！"],["牛委員煦庭：桃園可以處理比較多難處理的，其實我們的技術比較進步……"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝牛委員支持……"],["牛委員煦庭：因為我們是產業重鎮，相對來講，民生垃圾方面我們的量能就相對不足……"],["薛部長富盛：對、對、對。"],["牛委員煦庭：這當然是歷史共業，但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候，不是只是說大家拜託，中央才協調，你應該也有主動積極的角色。也就是說，就像我們推動專用垃圾袋政策一樣，提供一部分的政策誘因、預算補貼，去鼓勵各個縣市政府去做區域聯防，這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：認同。"],["牛委員煦庭：你平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主地去做溝通的時候，也許會比較有幫助。那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林，因為桃園現在跟基隆、新北的運作有一點成果，剩下的部分希望環境部協助桃園市政府，來跟其他的縣市做一下合作……"],["薛部長富盛：我們持續來做。"],["牛委員煦庭：用交換的方式，來降低焚化爐歲修時的垃圾堆積對於桃園的衝擊，可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，可以。"],["牛委員煦庭：相關的資料，會後請環境部再來跟本席做報告，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝部長，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢。等一下林淑芬委員發言結束，處理臨時提案。","我們現在請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","陳瑩","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林淑芬","黃秀芳","張雅琳","洪申翰","蔡易餘","劉建國","陳冠廷","楊曜","蘇清泉"],"page_start":341,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事\n業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132901_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"151271","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151271","tool":"pyannote","id":"151271-pyannote"},"job_id":"GlXhpU3kFjO6qdX1","queued_at":"2024-05-31 23:40:39","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 23:41:13","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151271"},{"time":"2024-05-31 23:41:14","msg":"downloading 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\"end\": 366.057, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 366.057, \"end\": 366.337, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 366.337, \"end\": 366.357, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,562 --> 00:00:11,189\n謝謝主席這個薛部長有請好請部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,805 --> 00:00:38,320\n部長早安今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量因為時間有限我們就沒辦法每一個題目都討論但本期看到報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋用一句話帶過去這跟圖全集委員一樣本期也對此非常有意見這個過去雖然現在只有臺北市跟新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理請問有沒有成效?\n\n3\n00:00:39,656 --> 00:00:56,970\n成效很好啊成效很好對不對是是是那為什麼部長知不知道為什麼地方我們現在其他地方縣市政府要去試行推動的時候大部分的這個基層民眾聞帶色變不是因為這個垃圾很臭啊是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策啊就非常的緊張好像政府來搶錢一樣這個是老問題啦\n\n4\n00:00:59,272 --> 00:01:20,332\n對不對?部長知道這個事嗎?是啊,就是大家認為說欸垃圾在以前不是都免費的嗎?現在還要復原。因為他說是自行購買,但是統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛。就如同我們現在收碳會也是一樣,以前說排放碳很正常的啊,但是造成氣候軟化,同樣現在塑膠危力很嚴重啦。\n\n5\n00:01:20,632 --> 00:01:30,108\n對所以政策這個政策要推對不對是所以裡面的意見是這樣對不對那這個現在啦垃圾水袋徵收的這樣一個政策是中央政策還是地方政策\n\n6\n00:01:31,738 --> 00:01:52,670\n中央定的政策那我們希望地方能夠來配合推動但是不強制因為要因地制宜嘛因為有時候你也瞭解即使是在不管桃園或其他縣市我覺得今天要花時間討論就是這個原因嘛因為你講是中央政策但是又給它地方因地制宜的時候其實你就會發生現在這樣的狀況\n\n7\n00:01:54,031 --> 00:02:21,617\n我們去談專用熱帶政策其實已經十幾年了對不對但實際上真的有做當然也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果那推動的時候有很多自然難行的地方所以本席這邊的意見是這樣子喔如果你講這是一個中央的政策那你應該要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛不管是預算也好、政策宣導也好、技術資源也好甚至部分的強制力也好其實這都是地方政府在執行你中央定地的遊戲規則的時候它需要的武器嘛但目前為止中央給了地方哪些東西\n\n8\n00:02:22,793 --> 00:02:45,042\n喔事實上我們有補助喔假如他願意去推動所以像桃園喔已經有8個里他們來推動那我們就給他們一些補助啊就當然誘因啦當然就誘因這個我們是希望越大越好可是環境部本身的支援其實以桃園最近事辦那你又有幾個里就在我本席的選區喔是是是其實是有成效的OK非常好\n\n9\n00:02:45,322 --> 00:03:11,404\n但因為你要在擴大實施的時候相對來講就進入政策的深水區嘛你就要進入溝通協調以及等等相關的我覺得你要把部分地區的事辦擴大到全市通用的時候其實地方政府第一壓力很大壓力很大的時候面對民眾的質疑本身溝通就很困難如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持比如說大量預算去那個然後甚至讓比如說有階段性的有費用的減免或怎麼樣來做調整的時候其實地方的武器就很有限嘛\n\n10\n00:03:11,864 --> 00:03:40,003\n所以說中央現在是否有在研擬除了現在的事辦補貼計畫之外有沒有別的方法有沒有更多的資源跟更多的政策可以支持的地方牛委員對中央當然趨勢很大但是我必須很坦白的告訴牛委員事實上環境部的預算也不是很多所以以一個環境部的預算要來能夠照顧到全台灣的這個各個鄉鎮這個縣市是有它的一定挑戰\n\n11\n00:03:41,204 --> 00:03:51,029\n環境部事實上也跟地方蠻多的資源有些事實上譬如說空屋裡面的費用有些是消耗的還有資源循環的部分如果我們今天的主題是說廢棄物減量的策進作為那我想我們的共識是\n\n12\n00:03:58,932 --> 00:03:59,312\n因為桃園現在進行焚化爐的稅修\n\n13\n00:04:20,309 --> 00:04:35,700\n主要又進入了垃圾危機的一個時代那我相信這樣的東西其實很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境中央從這個統合全部的這個廢棄物減量政策的主管機關的角度你覺得怎麼因應這個個別縣市遇到這種\n\n14\n00:04:36,340 --> 00:05:01,200\n我跟牛煦報告桃園的我們已經協助跟迎林跟台北市來討論了本來台北市有幫迎林那我們就希望說迎林是不是有一部分就先讓給桃園因為桃園離台北更近將來這個運送的費用更便宜那等桃園這個整修完了之後將來協助迎林來處理\n\n15\n00:05:02,341 --> 00:05:32,061\n這就是本期要講的第二概念就是垃圾區化的區域聯防啦互相之間彼此跑位啦桃園其實處理很多比較難處理的其實我們的技術是比較進步因為我們是產業重鎮嘛那相對兩名聲垃圾相對我們量能就相對不足那當然是歷史共業但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候不是只是說中央是大家拜託然後才協調你應該也有主動積極的角色也就是說就像我們推動中央垃圾政策一樣提供一部分的政策誘因預算補貼去鼓勵各個縣政府去做區域聯防\n\n16\n00:05:32,601 --> 00:05:56,112\n這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主的去做溝通的時候也許會比較有幫助好那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林嘛因為桃園現在跟基隆跟新北運作的有一點成果那剩下的部分希望喔環境部這邊協助桃園市政府來跟其他縣市來做一下合作用交換的方式喔來降低這個焚化爐稅休的時候這垃圾堆積啊對於桃園的衝擊可以嗎\n\n17\n00:05:57,253 --> 00:06:06,357\n好可以好相關的資料這個會後請這個環境部再來跟本席做報告好不好好謝謝謝謝部長辛苦了好謝謝牛委員好謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7562\t11189\t謝謝主席 這個薛部長有請好請部長\n15805\t38320\t部長早安今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量因為時間有限我們就沒辦法每一個題目都討論但本期看到報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋用一句話帶過去這跟圖全集委員一樣本期也對此非常有意見這個過去雖然現在只有臺北市跟新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理請問有沒有成效?\n39656\t56970\t成效很好啊 成效很好對不對 是是是那為什麼部長知不知道為什麼地方我們現在其他地方縣市政府要去試行推動的時候大部分的這個基層民眾聞帶色變不是因為這個垃圾很臭啊是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策啊就非常的緊張好像政府來搶錢一樣這個是老問題啦\n59272\t80332\t對不對?部長知道這個事嗎?是啊,就是大家認為說欸垃圾在以前不是都免費的嗎?現在還要復原。因為他說是自行購買,但是統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛。就如同我們現在收碳會也是一樣,以前說排放碳很正常的啊,但是造成氣候軟化,同樣現在塑膠危力很嚴重啦。\n80632\t90108\t對所以政策這個政策要推對不對是所以裡面的意見是這樣對不對那這個現在啦垃圾水袋徵收的這樣一個政策是中央政策還是地方政策\n91738\t112670\t中央定的政策那我們希望地方能夠來配合推動但是不強制因為要因地制宜嘛因為有時候你也瞭解即使是在不管桃園或其他縣市我覺得今天要花時間討論就是這個原因嘛因為你講是中央政策但是又給它地方因地制宜的時候其實你就會發生現在這樣的狀況\n114031\t141617\t我們去談專用熱帶政策其實已經十幾年了對不對但實際上真的有做當然也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果那推動的時候有很多自然難行的地方所以本席這邊的意見是這樣子喔如果你講這是一個中央的政策那你應該要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛不管是預算也好、政策宣導也好、技術資源也好甚至部分的強制力也好其實這都是地方政府在執行你中央定地的遊戲規則的時候它需要的武器嘛但目前為止中央給了地方哪些東西\n142793\t165042\t喔事實上我們有補助喔假如他願意去推動所以像桃園喔已經有8個里他們來推動那我們就給他們一些補助啊就當然誘因啦當然就誘因這個我們是希望越大越好可是環境部本身的支援其實以桃園最近事辦那你又有幾個里就在我本席的選區喔是是是其實是有成效的OK非常好\n165322\t191404\t但因為你要在擴大實施的時候相對來講就進入政策的深水區嘛你就要進入溝通協調以及等等相關的我覺得你要把部分地區的事辦擴大到全市通用的時候其實地方政府第一壓力很大壓力很大的時候面對民眾的質疑本身溝通就很困難如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持比如說大量預算去那個然後甚至讓比如說有階段性的有費用的減免或怎麼樣來做調整的時候其實地方的武器就很有限嘛\n191864\t220003\t所以說中央現在是否有在研擬除了現在的事辦補貼計畫之外有沒有別的方法有沒有更多的資源跟更多的政策可以支持的地方牛委員對中央當然趨勢很大但是我必須很坦白的告訴牛委員事實上環境部的預算也不是很多所以以一個環境部的預算要來能夠照顧到全台灣的這個各個鄉鎮這個縣市是有它的一定挑戰\n221204\t231029\t環境部事實上也跟地方蠻多的資源有些事實上譬如說空屋裡面的費用有些是消耗的還有資源循環的部分如果我們今天的主題是說廢棄物減量的策進作為那我想我們的共識是\n238932\t239312\t因為桃園現在進行焚化爐的稅修\n260309\t275700\t主要又進入了垃圾危機的一個時代那我相信這樣的東西其實很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境中央從這個統合全部的這個廢棄物減量政策的主管機關的角度你覺得怎麼因應這個個別縣市遇到這種\n276340\t301200\t我跟牛煦報告桃園的我們已經協助跟迎林跟台北市來討論了本來台北市有幫迎林那我們就希望說迎林是不是有一部分就先讓給桃園因為桃園離台北更近將來這個運送的費用更便宜那等桃園這個整修完了之後將來協助迎林來處理\n302341\t332061\t這就是本期要講的第二概念就是垃圾區化的區域聯防啦互相之間彼此跑位啦桃園其實處理很多比較難處理的其實我們的技術是比較進步因為我們是產業重鎮嘛那相對兩名聲垃圾相對我們量能就相對不足那當然是歷史共業但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候不是只是說中央是大家拜託然後才協調你應該也有主動積極的角色也就是說就像我們推動中央垃圾政策一樣提供一部分的政策誘因預算補貼去鼓勵各個縣政府去做區域聯防\n332601\t356112\t這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛 平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主的去做溝通的時候也許會比較有幫助 好那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林嘛因為桃園現在跟基隆跟新北運作的 有一點成果那剩下的部分希望喔環境部這邊協助桃園市政府來跟其他縣市來做一下合作用交換的方式喔 來降低這個焚化爐稅休的時候這垃圾堆積啊對於桃園的衝擊可以嗎\n357253\t366357\t好 可以好 相關的資料這個會後請這個環境部再來跟本席做報告好不好好 謝謝謝謝部長辛苦了好 謝謝牛委員好 謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 這個薛部長有請好請部長\n部長早安今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量因為時間有限我們就沒辦法每一個題目都討論但本期看到報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋用一句話帶過去這跟圖全集委員一樣本期也對此非常有意見這個過去雖然現在只有臺北市跟新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理請問有沒有成效?\n成效很好啊 成效很好對不對 是是是那為什麼部長知不知道為什麼地方我們現在其他地方縣市政府要去試行推動的時候大部分的這個基層民眾聞帶色變不是因為這個垃圾很臭啊是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策啊就非常的緊張好像政府來搶錢一樣這個是老問題啦\n對不對?部長知道這個事嗎?是啊,就是大家認為說欸垃圾在以前不是都免費的嗎?現在還要復原。因為他說是自行購買,但是統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛。就如同我們現在收碳會也是一樣,以前說排放碳很正常的啊,但是造成氣候軟化,同樣現在塑膠危力很嚴重啦。\n對所以政策這個政策要推對不對是所以裡面的意見是這樣對不對那這個現在啦垃圾水袋徵收的這樣一個政策是中央政策還是地方政策\n中央定的政策那我們希望地方能夠來配合推動但是不強制因為要因地制宜嘛因為有時候你也瞭解即使是在不管桃園或其他縣市我覺得今天要花時間討論就是這個原因嘛因為你講是中央政策但是又給它地方因地制宜的時候其實你就會發生現在這樣的狀況\n我們去談專用熱帶政策其實已經十幾年了對不對但實際上真的有做當然也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果那推動的時候有很多自然難行的地方所以本席這邊的意見是這樣子喔如果你講這是一個中央的政策那你應該要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛不管是預算也好、政策宣導也好、技術資源也好甚至部分的強制力也好其實這都是地方政府在執行你中央定地的遊戲規則的時候它需要的武器嘛但目前為止中央給了地方哪些東西\n喔事實上我們有補助喔假如他願意去推動所以像桃園喔已經有8個里他們來推動那我們就給他們一些補助啊就當然誘因啦當然就誘因這個我們是希望越大越好可是環境部本身的支援其實以桃園最近事辦那你又有幾個里就在我本席的選區喔是是是其實是有成效的OK非常好\n但因為你要在擴大實施的時候相對來講就進入政策的深水區嘛你就要進入溝通協調以及等等相關的我覺得你要把部分地區的事辦擴大到全市通用的時候其實地方政府第一壓力很大壓力很大的時候面對民眾的質疑本身溝通就很困難如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持比如說大量預算去那個然後甚至讓比如說有階段性的有費用的減免或怎麼樣來做調整的時候其實地方的武器就很有限嘛\n所以說中央現在是否有在研擬除了現在的事辦補貼計畫之外有沒有別的方法有沒有更多的資源跟更多的政策可以支持的地方牛委員對中央當然趨勢很大但是我必須很坦白的告訴牛委員事實上環境部的預算也不是很多所以以一個環境部的預算要來能夠照顧到全台灣的這個各個鄉鎮這個縣市是有它的一定挑戰\n環境部事實上也跟地方蠻多的資源有些事實上譬如說空屋裡面的費用有些是消耗的還有資源循環的部分如果我們今天的主題是說廢棄物減量的策進作為那我想我們的共識是\n因為桃園現在進行焚化爐的稅修\n主要又進入了垃圾危機的一個時代那我相信這樣的東西其實很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境中央從這個統合全部的這個廢棄物減量政策的主管機關的角度你覺得怎麼因應這個個別縣市遇到這種\n我跟牛煦報告桃園的我們已經協助跟迎林跟台北市來討論了本來台北市有幫迎林那我們就希望說迎林是不是有一部分就先讓給桃園因為桃園離台北更近將來這個運送的費用更便宜那等桃園這個整修完了之後將來協助迎林來處理\n這就是本期要講的第二概念就是垃圾區化的區域聯防啦互相之間彼此跑位啦桃園其實處理很多比較難處理的其實我們的技術是比較進步因為我們是產業重鎮嘛那相對兩名聲垃圾相對我們量能就相對不足那當然是歷史共業但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候不是只是說中央是大家拜託然後才協調你應該也有主動積極的角色也就是說就像我們推動中央垃圾政策一樣提供一部分的政策誘因預算補貼去鼓勵各個縣政府去做區域聯防\n這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛 平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主的去做溝通的時候也許會比較有幫助 好那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林嘛因為桃園現在跟基隆跟新北運作的 有一點成果那剩下的部分希望喔環境部這邊協助桃園市政府來跟其他縣市來做一下合作用交換的方式喔 來降低這個焚化爐稅休的時候這垃圾堆積啊對於桃園的衝擊可以嗎\n好 可以好 相關的資料這個會後請這個環境部再來跟本席做報告好不好好 謝謝謝謝部長辛苦了好 謝謝牛委員好 謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.562 --> 00:11.189\n謝謝主席這個薛部長有請好請部長\n\n00:15.805 --> 00:38.320\n部長早安今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量因為時間有限我們就沒辦法每一個題目都討論但本期看到報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋用一句話帶過去這跟圖全集委員一樣本期也對此非常有意見這個過去雖然現在只有臺北市跟新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理請問有沒有成效?\n\n00:39.656 --> 00:56.970\n成效很好啊成效很好對不對是是是那為什麼部長知不知道為什麼地方我們現在其他地方縣市政府要去試行推動的時候大部分的這個基層民眾聞帶色變不是因為這個垃圾很臭啊是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策啊就非常的緊張好像政府來搶錢一樣這個是老問題啦\n\n00:59.272 --> 01:20.332\n對不對?部長知道這個事嗎?是啊,就是大家認為說欸垃圾在以前不是都免費的嗎?現在還要復原。因為他說是自行購買,但是統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛。就如同我們現在收碳會也是一樣,以前說排放碳很正常的啊,但是造成氣候軟化,同樣現在塑膠危力很嚴重啦。\n\n01:20.632 --> 01:30.108\n對所以政策這個政策要推對不對是所以裡面的意見是這樣對不對那這個現在啦垃圾水袋徵收的這樣一個政策是中央政策還是地方政策\n\n01:31.738 --> 01:52.670\n中央定的政策那我們希望地方能夠來配合推動但是不強制因為要因地制宜嘛因為有時候你也瞭解即使是在不管桃園或其他縣市我覺得今天要花時間討論就是這個原因嘛因為你講是中央政策但是又給它地方因地制宜的時候其實你就會發生現在這樣的狀況\n\n01:54.031 --> 02:21.617\n我們去談專用熱帶政策其實已經十幾年了對不對但實際上真的有做當然也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果那推動的時候有很多自然難行的地方所以本席這邊的意見是這樣子喔如果你講這是一個中央的政策那你應該要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛不管是預算也好、政策宣導也好、技術資源也好甚至部分的強制力也好其實這都是地方政府在執行你中央定地的遊戲規則的時候它需要的武器嘛但目前為止中央給了地方哪些東西\n\n02:22.793 --> 02:45.042\n喔事實上我們有補助喔假如他願意去推動所以像桃園喔已經有8個里他們來推動那我們就給他們一些補助啊就當然誘因啦當然就誘因這個我們是希望越大越好可是環境部本身的支援其實以桃園最近事辦那你又有幾個里就在我本席的選區喔是是是其實是有成效的OK非常好\n\n02:45.322 --> 03:11.404\n但因為你要在擴大實施的時候相對來講就進入政策的深水區嘛你就要進入溝通協調以及等等相關的我覺得你要把部分地區的事辦擴大到全市通用的時候其實地方政府第一壓力很大壓力很大的時候面對民眾的質疑本身溝通就很困難如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持比如說大量預算去那個然後甚至讓比如說有階段性的有費用的減免或怎麼樣來做調整的時候其實地方的武器就很有限嘛\n\n03:11.864 --> 03:40.003\n所以說中央現在是否有在研擬除了現在的事辦補貼計畫之外有沒有別的方法有沒有更多的資源跟更多的政策可以支持的地方牛委員對中央當然趨勢很大但是我必須很坦白的告訴牛委員事實上環境部的預算也不是很多所以以一個環境部的預算要來能夠照顧到全台灣的這個各個鄉鎮這個縣市是有它的一定挑戰\n\n03:41.204 --> 03:51.029\n環境部事實上也跟地方蠻多的資源有些事實上譬如說空屋裡面的費用有些是消耗的還有資源循環的部分如果我們今天的主題是說廢棄物減量的策進作為那我想我們的共識是\n\n03:58.932 --> 03:59.312\n因為桃園現在進行焚化爐的稅修\n\n04:20.309 --> 04:35.700\n主要又進入了垃圾危機的一個時代那我相信這樣的東西其實很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境中央從這個統合全部的這個廢棄物減量政策的主管機關的角度你覺得怎麼因應這個個別縣市遇到這種\n\n04:36.340 --> 05:01.200\n我跟牛煦報告桃園的我們已經協助跟迎林跟台北市來討論了本來台北市有幫迎林那我們就希望說迎林是不是有一部分就先讓給桃園因為桃園離台北更近將來這個運送的費用更便宜那等桃園這個整修完了之後將來協助迎林來處理\n\n05:02.341 --> 05:32.061\n這就是本期要講的第二概念就是垃圾區化的區域聯防啦互相之間彼此跑位啦桃園其實處理很多比較難處理的其實我們的技術是比較進步因為我們是產業重鎮嘛那相對兩名聲垃圾相對我們量能就相對不足那當然是歷史共業但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候不是只是說中央是大家拜託然後才協調你應該也有主動積極的角色也就是說就像我們推動中央垃圾政策一樣提供一部分的政策誘因預算補貼去鼓勵各個縣政府去做區域聯防\n\n05:32.601 --> 05:56.112\n這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主的去做溝通的時候也許會比較有幫助好那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林嘛因為桃園現在跟基隆跟新北運作的有一點成果那剩下的部分希望喔環境部這邊協助桃園市政府來跟其他縣市來做一下合作用交換的方式喔來降低這個焚化爐稅休的時候這垃圾堆積啊對於桃園的衝擊可以嗎\n\n05:57.253 --> 06:06.357\n好可以好相關的資料這個會後請這個環境部再來跟本席做報告好不好好謝謝謝謝部長辛苦了好謝謝牛委員好謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.562,"end":11.189,"text":"謝謝主席 這個薛部長有請好請部長"},{"start":15.805,"end":38.32,"text":"部長早安今天討論家戶廢棄物的減量因為時間有限我們就沒辦法每一個題目都討論但本期看到報告裡面針對專用垃圾袋用一句話帶過去這跟圖全集委員一樣本期也對此非常有意見這個過去雖然現在只有臺北市跟新北市採用專用垃圾袋的方式來處理請問有沒有成效?"},{"start":39.656,"end":56.97,"text":"成效很好啊 成效很好對不對 是是是那為什麼部長知不知道為什麼地方我們現在其他地方縣市政府要去試行推動的時候大部分的這個基層民眾聞帶色變不是因為這個垃圾很臭啊是聽到專用垃圾袋的政策啊就非常的緊張好像政府來搶錢一樣這個是老問題啦"},{"start":59.272,"end":80.332,"text":"對不對?部長知道這個事嗎?是啊,就是大家認為說欸垃圾在以前不是都免費的嗎?現在還要復原。因為他說是自行購買,但是統一規格之後就由政府來定價嘛。就如同我們現在收碳會也是一樣,以前說排放碳很正常的啊,但是造成氣候軟化,同樣現在塑膠危力很嚴重啦。"},{"start":80.632,"end":90.108,"text":"對所以政策這個政策要推對不對是所以裡面的意見是這樣對不對那這個現在啦垃圾水袋徵收的這樣一個政策是中央政策還是地方政策"},{"start":91.738,"end":112.67,"text":"中央定的政策那我們希望地方能夠來配合推動但是不強制因為要因地制宜嘛因為有時候你也瞭解即使是在不管桃園或其他縣市我覺得今天要花時間討論就是這個原因嘛因為你講是中央政策但是又給它地方因地制宜的時候其實你就會發生現在這樣的狀況"},{"start":114.031,"end":141.617,"text":"我們去談專用熱帶政策其實已經十幾年了對不對但實際上真的有做當然也就只有雙北能夠有一點點成果那推動的時候有很多自然難行的地方所以本席這邊的意見是這樣子喔如果你講這是一個中央的政策那你應該要給地方政府強而有力的支持嘛不管是預算也好、政策宣導也好、技術資源也好甚至部分的強制力也好其實這都是地方政府在執行你中央定地的遊戲規則的時候它需要的武器嘛但目前為止中央給了地方哪些東西"},{"start":142.793,"end":165.042,"text":"喔事實上我們有補助喔假如他願意去推動所以像桃園喔已經有8個里他們來推動那我們就給他們一些補助啊就當然誘因啦當然就誘因這個我們是希望越大越好可是環境部本身的支援其實以桃園最近事辦那你又有幾個里就在我本席的選區喔是是是其實是有成效的OK非常好"},{"start":165.322,"end":191.404,"text":"但因為你要在擴大實施的時候相對來講就進入政策的深水區嘛你就要進入溝通協調以及等等相關的我覺得你要把部分地區的事辦擴大到全市通用的時候其實地方政府第一壓力很大壓力很大的時候面對民眾的質疑本身溝通就很困難如果我們沒有從中央得到強而有力的支持比如說大量預算去那個然後甚至讓比如說有階段性的有費用的減免或怎麼樣來做調整的時候其實地方的武器就很有限嘛"},{"start":191.864,"end":220.003,"text":"所以說中央現在是否有在研擬除了現在的事辦補貼計畫之外有沒有別的方法有沒有更多的資源跟更多的政策可以支持的地方牛委員對中央當然趨勢很大但是我必須很坦白的告訴牛委員事實上環境部的預算也不是很多所以以一個環境部的預算要來能夠照顧到全台灣的這個各個鄉鎮這個縣市是有它的一定挑戰"},{"start":221.204,"end":231.029,"text":"環境部事實上也跟地方蠻多的資源有些事實上譬如說空屋裡面的費用有些是消耗的還有資源循環的部分如果我們今天的主題是說廢棄物減量的策進作為那我想我們的共識是"},{"start":238.932,"end":239.312,"text":"因為桃園現在進行焚化爐的稅修"},{"start":260.309,"end":275.7,"text":"主要又進入了垃圾危機的一個時代那我相信這樣的東西其實很多縣市或早或晚也都會面對一樣的困境中央從這個統合全部的這個廢棄物減量政策的主管機關的角度你覺得怎麼因應這個個別縣市遇到這種"},{"start":276.34,"end":301.2,"text":"我跟牛煦報告桃園的我們已經協助跟迎林跟台北市來討論了本來台北市有幫迎林那我們就希望說迎林是不是有一部分就先讓給桃園因為桃園離台北更近將來這個運送的費用更便宜那等桃園這個整修完了之後將來協助迎林來處理"},{"start":302.341,"end":332.061,"text":"這就是本期要講的第二概念就是垃圾區化的區域聯防啦互相之間彼此跑位啦桃園其實處理很多比較難處理的其實我們的技術是比較進步因為我們是產業重鎮嘛那相對兩名聲垃圾相對我們量能就相對不足那當然是歷史共業但我們希望區域聯防機制在建立的時候不是只是說中央是大家拜託然後才協調你應該也有主動積極的角色也就是說就像我們推動中央垃圾政策一樣提供一部分的政策誘因預算補貼去鼓勵各個縣政府去做區域聯防"},{"start":332.601,"end":356.112,"text":"這樣你環境部也不用說遇到事情再來一件一件喬嘛 平常就有機制鼓勵他們自主的去做溝通的時候也許會比較有幫助 好那你剛剛講臺北跟雲林嘛因為桃園現在跟基隆跟新北運作的 有一點成果那剩下的部分希望喔環境部這邊協助桃園市政府來跟其他縣市來做一下合作用交換的方式喔 來降低這個焚化爐稅休的時候這垃圾堆積啊對於桃園的衝擊可以嗎"},{"start":357.253,"end":366.357,"text":"好 可以好 相關的資料這個會後請這個環境部再來跟本席做報告好不好好 謝謝謝謝部長辛苦了好 謝謝牛委員好 謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢"}]}}}}