{"id":151275,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151275","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016272e7695f537ae3614f65493343f37da33c5dab72e655c1c9474376f4625cb93f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:18:49 - 11:34:36","影片長度":"00:15:47","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王育敏等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（七）國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員柯志恩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（九）、（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-13"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":947,"end_time":"2024-04-17T11:34:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T11:18:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":877,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時19分）謝謝主席。麻煩有請法務部次長。"],["主席：蔡次長。"],["黃委員國昌：以及司法院副秘書長。"],["主席：副秘書長。"],["黃委員國昌：刑事廳副廳長，或者是今天所來的刑事廳法官如果有必要的話隨時……"],["主席：請刑事廳的上台。"],["黃委員國昌：如果有必要的話，隨時上來協助，因為今天接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題，你們有需要隨時上來。我今天沒有打算要考副秘書長刑法，但專業度很高，所以刑事法官如果有必要隨時上來，不用先問，這樣可以嗎？可以嘛！好。","謝謝主席，刑事司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題，但我今天破題，先講一件事，對面的法務部次長跟司法院同仁，大家請不要見怪，我講話比較直啦！你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格！我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格？因為在刑事司法的適用上，涉及的是非常專業的刑事法律之適用。司法及法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決、去看實際操作的結果，對於牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件，我期待的是法律人就應該把該處理的事情講清楚，而你們的報告沒有做到這一點。為什麼我會這樣講？我接著今天討論的問題。我先破題點一件事情，當社會上都在關注法定刑有沒有提高的時候，真正更該檢討的是實際上面實踐的結果。所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後是怎麼判的、判完以後最後關了多久。如果在形式上法條刑度不斷地提高，實際在刑事司法政策的實踐上卻根本不是這麼回事，那修法就只是打假球、做做樣子，沒有意義嘛！","我為什麼這樣講？我舉個實際的例子。之前在媒體上被揭露有情侶虐待3歲小女孩，他們虐待3歲小女孩時，七大酷刑樣樣來，從拔指甲、凌虐到燒她，結果法院判出來的是對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死，判13年6個月。這是2017年5月10號判刑確定的，結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正署核准假釋。次長，關了多久？"],["蔡次長碧仲：六年多。"],["黃委員國昌：你覺得這樣子有實踐我們刑事司法體系對兒少的保護嗎？"],["蔡次長碧仲：我認為判13年6個月只關了六年多，這是不夠的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果不夠，法務部為什麼會做這個決定？"],["蔡次長碧仲：所以這是我們要檢討的。"],["黃委員國昌：好，怎麼檢討？1個禮拜之內給報告，可以嗎？"],["蔡次長碧仲：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：太離譜了啦！","接下來，我們繼續看，我直接問，請教次長，被告餵食甲童毒品、餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪？"],["蔡次長碧仲：致死嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：對。"],["蔡次長碧仲：那是凌虐兒童致死。"],["黃委員國昌：好，那有沒有構成刑法第二百七十七條第二項前段的故意傷害兒童致死？"],["蔡次長碧仲：有，有凌虐就是傷害吧！是故意傷害。"],["黃委員國昌：好。","這是想像競合還是法條競合？"],["蔡次長碧仲：因為這是一個行為觸犯了兩個罪名，這個有可能是想像競合。但是對於這一案的罪質，兩個規定都涵攝在裡面，所以也可能是法規競合。"],["黃委員國昌：所以是想像競合還是法條競合？"],["蔡次長碧仲：有可能要看對於具體案件怎麼判斷。"],["黃委員國昌：具體案件我講得很清楚啊！今天有成年人餵一個小朋友吃毒品致死了，同時構成刑法第二百八十六條第三項跟第二百七十七條第二項前段之罪，這是想像競合還是法條競合？"],["蔡次長碧仲：如果適用這個法律的話，我會用想像競合。"],["黃委員國昌：你會用想像競合？","來，請司法院副秘書長，是想像競合還是法條競合？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：當然要看凌虐兒童罪的不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童致死罪的內涵。如果全部cover，當然就是法規競合，如果沒有，可能應該就是想像競合。"],["黃委員國昌：那你覺得第二百八十六條的不法內涵有全部cover第二百七十七條嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我覺得應該是沒有啦！"],["黃委員國昌：你覺得應該是沒有？所以應該是想像競合還是法條競合？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：如果沒有的話，應該是想像競合啦！"],["黃委員國昌：應該是想像競合？好。","從一重處斷要從哪一個條文處斷？這個法規要很熟啦！從一重處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：凌虐兒童致死罪比較重。"],["黃委員國昌：是凌虐兒童罪致死比較重嗎？你確定嗎？最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎？你們實際上判決是這樣用的嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，我們再確定一下。"],["黃委員國昌：刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊、刑事法官也在了，這個要很熟啦！"],["陳副廳長信旗：凌虐致死比較重。"],["黃委員國昌：凌虐致死比較重？我不跟你耗時間。","我們繼續往下看。事實上，這個題目不是新的題目啊！由於在我國實務上很亂，所以南投地方法院提案要高等法院召開座談會檢討。召開座談會檢討以後，對於到底是想像競合還是法規競合、從一重處斷到底要怎麼做處斷這件事，我們接下來看，最後採甲說。什麼是甲說？甲說跟剛剛次長所講的答案、跟刑事廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣，我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼？是法規競合，不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合。你們贊不贊成高等法院座談會這項結論？"],["蔡次長碧仲：我不贊成。"],["黃委員國昌：你不贊成？","來，副秘書長？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，高等法院那場座談會其實是沒有絕對拘束力的，個案法官可以做不同認定。"],["黃委員國昌：好，那你覺得辦這個座談會有什麼意義？辦這個座談會有什麼意義？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，辦座談會就是要讓大家集思廣益討論，但是本來就不應該產生一個有拘束力的……"],["黃委員國昌：我現在沒有在跟你說這個，而且我也贊成這沒有拘束力啊！但是出現了這樣的座談會，而高等法院法官大家都很忙，卻全部都到了，齊聚一堂討論到底要採法規競合還是想像競合，就代表這件事情在審判實務上已經造成了重大困擾嘛！但是討論出來是這樣的結論，兩位都表示不贊成，所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義！","為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要？因為按照實際上最後運作的結果，修第二百八十六條有沒有用是一個超級大問號。我為什麼說修第二百八十六條到底有沒有用是一個超級大問號？如果按照今天兩位在臺上所表示的，你們認為應該用想像競合處理從一重處斷，下一個問題：哪一個罪名比較重？關於第二百七十七條，不要忘囉！如果是對兒少犯的話，依照兒少權益保護法第一百十二條規定，要不要加重其刑二分之一？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：如果考慮到兒少加重的話……"],["黃委員國昌：當然要加重嘛！你有什麼時候用第二百七十七條？對兒少犯，結果不用依照第一百十二條加重？不要內行人講外行話嘛！所以哪一個會比較重？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：加重了以後就會變成第二百七十七條的傷害致死罪比較重。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！按照你們所講的想像競合，然後從一重處斷，結果最後我國實務上的法律適用會用哪一條？就是第二百七十七條嘛！第二百七十七條第二項加上兒少法第一百十二條嘛！為了從一重處斷嘛！那是不是把第二百八十六條給架空了？我這樣說有沒有錯？請表示意見。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員高見，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：不是我的高見啊！實務上運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛！所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法及法制委員會的報告根本不及格？你要告訴全體委員我國實務上操作適用的結果是這個樣子啊！如果今天要全面提升兒少保護的話，我們要去看加重是怎麼加重。","所謂的加重是怎麼加重？來，請教兩位，根據第二百七十七條第二項就故意對兒童犯傷害罪致死加重其刑二分之一以後，刑度、法官量刑的空間在哪裡？請說明。無期徒刑不得加重這點沒有問題嘛！有期徒刑則是7年以上有期徒刑嘛！判處7年以上有期徒刑的話，加重以後適用的結果是如何？請說明。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：加重以後就變成7年1個月以上、20年以下。"],["黃委員國昌：為什麼是7年1個月以上、20年以下？這是我第二個問題。為什麼是7年1個月以上、20年以下？","再往下看。依照刑法的規定，如果加重其刑至二分之一的話，不是應該依照刑法第六十七條規定，加重其刑要同加同減，而不應該出現只加重上限、卻不加重下限的結論嗎？我有沒有說錯？如果沒有說錯的話，為什麼實務上法官對於7年以上有期徒刑加重其刑二分之一，量刑時竟然是從7年1個月開始，而不是按照立法者的意思？加重其刑至二分之一的最低刑度應該是多少？是不是10年6個月？是不是10年6個月？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：是加重「至」那邊，也就是至那個標準，中間還是有一些range，是「加重至」。"],["黃委員國昌：對不起，你現在在講什麼？我已經完全聽不懂。請你具體表明你的法律見解，加重其刑二分之一的bottom line到底是7年只變成7年1個月，還是7年加重其刑二分之一要從10年6個月開始？應該是哪一個法律見解？"],["陳副廳長信旗：跟委員報告，實務上的見解的確是只要規定加重至二分之一的話，就是有加重就可以，可以加重到二分之一。"],["黃委員國昌：這個就是問題嘛！這個就是問題嘛！你們就是要告訴所有立法委員實務上的操作跟實際上修法時的想像完全不一樣嘛！當初立委在修法時，對於加重其刑二分之一，看到刑法第六十七條，大家以為的是，最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是7年以上有期徒刑？若依照兒少法加重其刑二分之一，最低是不是應該判10年6個月以上有期徒刑？"],["陳副廳長信旗：對。"],["黃委員國昌：但你們法院實際判決就不是這樣做啊！如果立法者修了法，法官還是我行我素、按照自己的法律見解下判決，我們當然尊重司法獨立啊！我們也不會去干預個案啊！但問題是什麼？你們實務上的操作結果荒謬到連臺大法律系的教授許恒達都看不下去啊！他直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作違反刑法第六十七條的規定啊！難道沒有檢討的必要嗎？是不是要立法者在立法的時候對於什麼叫「加重其刑至二分之一」要白紙黑字寫得很清楚，還要提供範例，法官才開得下去？需要做到這樣嗎？因為這牽涉到如果我們要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嘛！如果按照你們剛剛所講的，無論採想像競合也好、法規競合也好，最後操作出來的結果是第二百八十六條已經被架空了。當第二百八十六條已經被架空了，我們還坐在這邊討論第二百八十六條的修法，不是很荒謬嗎？","繼續往下看這件事情，最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講，是採取想像競合說，沒有關係，這是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決。接下來高等法院也跟立法者講，高等法院說，立法者在做第二百八十六條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用，輕重失衡！什麼叫輕重失衡？因為按照第二百七十七條，再加上根據兒少法第一百十二條加重其刑至二分之一，整個扭曲了嘛！我有沒有說錯？請教副秘書長。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，沒有。"],["黃委員國昌：我沒有說錯？那這是不是你們司法院在提交給司法及法制委員會的書面報告中應該告訴全體立法委員的？是不是你們應該做的？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，這部分我們應該是要檢討，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：好好檢討啊！要不然大家坐在這邊立法，卻都沒有人知道耶！你立的歸你立的，但法院有法院的玩法啊！法條競合、想像競合、加重其刑至二分之一，改了半天，還修了第二百八十六條，但第二百八十六條又用不到！","我請司法院注意喔！我請司法院注意喔！你們不會隨著政府換屆就離開位子，你們還會在你們的位子上，對於這麼嚴肅的問題，該做的事情要做好。對於今天交到本院本委員會的報告，我只能跟你說不及格！不及格！如果召委許可的話，我請召委要求你們重新提一份報告，就法律到底如何解釋適用、在實務上到底發生什麼、怎麼回事清楚地向所有立法委員報告，大家才知道接下來修法的時候要怎麼處理嘛！可以嗎？好，謝謝。"],["主席：請問一下，有沒有辦法依照委員剛剛的要求再提一份報告？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我們會就相關規範作研議，跟委員會做個報告。"],["主席：這個大概需要多久時間？黃委員，你有希望他們多久內提出嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：1個月？"],["黃委員國昌：1個禮拜就交出來了啦！"],["主席：委員是希望1個禮拜內交出來。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：好，那我們儘量在1個禮拜內。"],["主席：那就麻煩1個禮拜內把報告交過來，謝謝。","接下來因為是本席詢答，那就請羅智強委員代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：請吳宗憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-13","speakers":["吳宗憲","傅崐萁","廖偉翔","王育敏","徐欣瑩","陳超明","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","黃健豪"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委\n員徐巧芯等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等19人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等20\n人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八\n十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)國民黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員柯志恩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正\n草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案、(十)\n委員陳超明等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1132901_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151275","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151275","tool":"pyannote","id":"151275-pyannote"},"job_id":"Bsnp362QFzPaBaic","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"該\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 658.777, \"end\": 659.258, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 659.258, \"end\": 659.378, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 659.378, \"end\": 659.538, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 659.538, \"end\": 659.799, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 659.799, \"end\": 659.999, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 659.999, \"end\": 660.239, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 660.239, \"end\": 661.181, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 661.181, \"end\": 661.321, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 661.321, \"end\": 661.541, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 661.541, \"end\": 661.741, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 661.741, \"end\": 662.022, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 662.022, \"end\": 662.222, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 662.222, \"end\": 662.342, 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\"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 938.765, \"end\": 938.965, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 938.965, \"end\": 938.985, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,851 --> 00:00:07,766\n三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具«中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案》案。\n\n2\n00:00:16,319 --> 00:00:32,826\n二）委員蔡次長及司法院副秘書長、刑事廳副廳長或是今天所來的刑事廳法官,如果有必要的話,隨時上來協助。接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題。\n\n3\n00:00:43,491 --> 00:00:45,894\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案案刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案\n\n4\n00:01:01,957 --> 00:01:27,338\n謝謝主席行司司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題但我今天破題我先講一件事請對面法務部的次長跟司法院的同仁大家不要見怪我講話比較直你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格因為\n\n5\n00:01:28,599 --> 00:01:35,157\n在刑事司法的適用上涉及到的是非常專業的刑事法律的適用\n\n6\n00:01:36,331 --> 00:01:58,726\n事由法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決去看實際操作的結果牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件我期待的是法律人就應該要把該處理的事情講清楚而你們的報告沒有做到這一點為什麼我會這樣講我們接著今天討論的問題我先破題點一件事情\n\n7\n00:02:04,139 --> 00:02:23,380\n當社會上都在關注法定期有沒有提高的時候真正更該檢討的是我們實際上面實踐的結果所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後怎麼判的判完了以後最後關了多久\n\n8\n00:02:24,383 --> 00:02:28,826\n二）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n\n9\n00:02:47,850 --> 00:03:13,552\n虐待三歲的小女孩虐待三歲的小女孩有七大酷刑樣樣來從拔指甲淋虐燒他結果我們的法院判出來的對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死判13年6個月這個是在2017年5月10號判刑確定的結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正組合准假釋來次長關了多久\n\n10\n00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:32,309\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13屆第16條條文修正草案．立法院第17條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第20條條文修正草案．立法院第21條條文修正草案．立法院第22條條文修正草案．立法院第23條條文修正草案．立法院第24條條文修正草案．立法院第25條條文修正草案．立\n\n11\n00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:50,720\n怎麼檢討一個禮拜之內給報告可以嗎可以太離譜了啦接下來我們繼續看我直接問請教次長被告餵食甲酮毒品餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪\n\n12\n00:03:52,807 --> 00:03:53,067\n法條禁核\n\n13\n00:04:09,212 --> 00:04:32,488\n因為這個是一個行為齁那麼出犯了兩個罪名啦齁那麼這個有可能是想像競合但是對於這一項這個罪質啊那麼兩個規定的都含設在裡面所以也有可能是法規競合那所以是想像競合還是法條競合有可能看具體案件齁他們怎麼樣去判決具體案件我講得很清楚啊\n\n14\n00:04:33,388 --> 00:04:46,535\n今天我成年人就是為一個小朋友為他吃毒品死了然後同時構成286第三項跟277第二項前端是想像競合還是法條競合你會用想像競合來請司法院副秘書長是想像競合還是法條競合\n\n15\n00:04:55,358 --> 00:05:07,382\n那個當然看那個傷害那個凌虐兒童罪的這個不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童誓死罪的這個內涵了如果是全部cover當然就法規禁核如果沒有可能應該就想讓禁核\n\n16\n00:05:07,822 --> 00:05:22,230\n你覺得286的不法內還有全部cover嗎277條我們是覺得應該是沒有啦你覺得應該是沒有所以是想像進而還法條進而如果沒有的話應該是想像進而應該是想像進而好從一眾處斷從哪一個條文處斷這個法官要很熟啦從一眾處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷\n\n17\n00:05:37,142 --> 00:05:40,103\n是李聶宥同自己錯比較重嗎?你確定嗎?最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎?你們實際上面判決是這樣用的嗎?刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊,刑事法官也在了這個要很熟啦\n\n18\n00:06:11,257 --> 00:06:16,638\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n19\n00:06:40,623 --> 00:07:02,483\n最後才假說什麼是假說假說跟剛剛次長所講的答案跟巡視廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼是法規競合不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合來戰不戰成這一個高等法院座談會的結論\n\n20\n00:07:05,343 --> 00:07:17,311\n二）委員高等法院座談會其實是沒有絕對技術力的,各案的法官是可以做不同的認定那辦這個座談會有什麼意義\n\n21\n00:07:24,172 --> 00:07:45,063\n三）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員\n\n22\n00:07:52,092 --> 00:08:04,141\n條文書來是這樣子的結論兩位都表示不贊成所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要\n\n23\n00:08:04,892 --> 00:08:25,368\n因為按照實際最後運作的結果你修兩百八十六條有沒有用啊是一個超級大問號我為什麼說修兩百六十六八十六條到底有沒有用是個超級大問號如果按照今天兩位在上面所表示的你們認為應該用想像進合處理從一重處斷下一個問題\n\n24\n00:08:28,126 --> 00:08:41,238\n哪一個罪名比較重?兩百七十七條不要忘囉你如果是對於兒少犯的話依照兒少權益保護法一百一十二條的規定要不要加重刑刑二分之一?\n\n25\n00:08:45,015 --> 00:08:58,119\n當然要加重嘛你有什麼時候用277條結果是對俄哨犯的不用依照112條加重不要內行人講外行話嘛所以哪一個會比你比較重\n\n26\n00:09:00,162 --> 00:09:18,332\n加重了以後就會變成那個那個277條的傷害制止比較重對嘛按照你們所講的想像進合然後從一種阻斷結果最後我國實務上面的法律適用的會用哪一條就277條嘛277條第二項加上兒少法112條嘛從一種阻斷嘛是不是把286條給架空了我這樣說有沒有錯\n\n27\n00:09:30,001 --> 00:09:42,970\n請表示意見。不是我的高見啦這個是實務上面運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法法制委員會的報告根本不及格\n\n28\n00:09:44,108 --> 00:10:04,073\n二）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中\n\n29\n00:10:06,089 --> 00:10:27,229\n而同犯傷害罪致死加重期刑二分之一以後他的刑度法官在量刑的空間在哪裡請說明無期徒刑不得加重嘛這個沒有問題嘛有期徒刑是七年以上有期徒刑嘛那七年以上有期徒刑的話加重以後適用的結果是如何請說明\n\n30\n00:10:28,686 --> 00:10:51,904\n加重以後就變成七年一月以上然後二十年以下為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下這個是我第二個問題為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下來再往下看我們依照刑法的規定如果加重期刑至二分之一的話不是依照\n\n31\n00:10:53,089 --> 00:11:02,663\n刑法三十六條的規定加重期刑要同加同減不應該出現只有加重上限卻不加重下限的結論嗎我有沒有說錯\n\n32\n00:11:06,206 --> 00:11:26,495\n那如果沒有說錯的話為什麼我們實務上的法官七年以上有期徒刑加重期刑二分之一竟然量刑的時候是從七年一個月開始而不是按照立法者的意思我們加重期刑之二分之一最低的刑度應該是多少是不是十年六個月是不是十年六個月\n\n33\n00:11:31,554 --> 00:11:56,023\n加重至那一邊喔至到那個那中間還是有一些的range加重至啊對不起你現在在講什麼我已經完全聽不懂請你具體表明你的法律見解加重期刑二分之一那個buttonline到底是七年只變成七年一個月還是七年加重期刑二分之一要從十年六個月開始應該是哪一個法律見解\n\n34\n00:12:00,495 --> 00:12:06,684\n三）委員實務上的見解的確是說只要是加重至二分之一的話就是有加重就可以\n\n35\n00:12:07,826 --> 00:12:31,525\n這個就是問題嘛這個就是問題嘛你們就要告訴所有的立法委員嘛我們實務上面的操作跟你們實際上面在修法的想像完全不一樣嘛當初立委在修法的時候加重刑刑二分之一看到刑法36條大家以為的是最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是七年以上有期徒刑\n\n36\n00:12:32,245 --> 00:12:41,239\n依照兒少法加重期刑二分之一是不是應該最低是十年六個月以上有期徒刑但你們法院實際的判決就不是這樣做啊\n\n37\n00:12:42,691 --> 00:13:08,291\n如果立法者修了法法官還是我刑我訴按照自己的法律見解來下判決我們當然尊重司法獨立我們也不會去干預個案但問題是什麼你們實務上面操作的結果荒謬到連台大法律系的教授許恆達都看不下去了直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作是違反刑法36條的規定難道沒有檢討的必要嗎\n\n38\n00:13:12,412 --> 00:13:25,154\n是不是要立法者在立法的時候叫什麼叫做加重期刑至二分之一要白紙黑字寫得很清楚還要提供範例法官才看得下去\n\n39\n00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:47,315\n需要做到這樣嗎?因為這牽涉到我們如果要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嗎?如果按照你們剛剛所講的想像競合也好法規競合也好最後操作出來的結果是286條已經被架空了當286條已經被架空了我們坐在這邊討論286條的修法不是很荒謬嗎?而這一件事情來我繼續往下看\n\n40\n00:13:56,994 --> 00:14:15,274\n最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講啊採取想像進合說好沒有關係這個是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決接下來高等法院也跟立法者講啊高等法院說立法者在做286條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用\n\n41\n00:14:16,555 --> 00:14:40,846\n輕重失衡。」什麼叫輕重失衡?因為你按照277條再加上俄哨法112條加重其刑之二分之一整個扭曲完了嘛!我有沒有說錯?來請教副廳長我沒有說錯!那這個是不是應該你們司法院提交給司法法制委員會的書院報告應該要告訴全體立法委員的?是不是你們應該做的?\n\n42\n00:14:43,439 --> 00:15:01,389\n這部分我們應該是要檢討好好檢討啊要不然大家坐在這邊立法都沒有人知道欸你立歸你的啊法院有法院的玩法啊法條進合想像進合加重期刑吃二分之一搞了半天修286286用不到啊我請司法院注意喔我請司法院注意喔你們不會隨著\n\n43\n00:15:09,318 --> 00:15:24,941\n政府換卸就離開位置你們還會在我的位置上這麼嚴肅的問題該做的事情要做好交到本院本委員會今天的報告我只能跟你說不及格不及格如果召委許可的話我希望\n\n44\n00:15:26,631 --> 00:15:38,985\n請召委要求你們重新提一份報告就法律到底如何解釋適用在實務上到底發生怎麼回事清楚的跟所有的立法委員報告大家才知道接下來修法說要怎麼處理嘛可以嗎好謝謝請問一下那剛剛有沒有辦法依照委員的那個要求的時候再提\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3851\t7766\t三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具 «中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案》案。\n16319\t32826\t二）委員蔡次長及司法院副秘書長、刑事廳副廳長或是今天所來的刑事廳法官,如果有必要的話,隨時上來協助。接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題。\n43491\t45894\t刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案案 刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案\n61957\t87338\t謝謝主席行司司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題但我今天破題我先講一件事請對面法務部的次長跟司法院的同仁大家不要見怪我講話比較直你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格因為\n88599\t95157\t在刑事司法的適用上涉及到的是非常專業的刑事法律的適用\n96331\t118726\t事由法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決去看實際操作的結果牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件我期待的是法律人就應該要把該處理的事情講清楚而你們的報告沒有做到這一點為什麼我會這樣講我們接著今天討論的問題我先破題點一件事情\n124139\t143380\t當社會上都在關注法定期有沒有提高的時候真正更該檢討的是我們實際上面實踐的結果所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後怎麼判的判完了以後最後關了多久\n144383\t148826\t二）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n167850\t193552\t虐待三歲的小女孩虐待三歲的小女孩有七大酷刑樣樣來從拔指甲淋虐燒他結果我們的法院判出來的對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死判13年6個月這個是在2017年5月10號判刑確定的結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正組合准假釋來次長關了多久\n196630\t212309\t條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13屆第16條條文修正草案．立法院第17條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第20條條文修正草案．立法院第21條條文修正草案．立法院第22條條文修正草案．立法院第23條條文修正草案．立法院第24條條文修正草案．立法院第25條條文修正草案．立\n215680\t230720\t怎麼檢討一個禮拜之內給報告可以嗎可以太離譜了啦接下來我們繼續看我直接問請教次長被告餵食甲酮毒品餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪\n232807\t233067\t法條禁核\n249212\t272488\t因為這個是一個行為齁那麼出犯了兩個罪名啦齁那麼這個有可能是想像競合但是對於這一項這個罪質啊那麼兩個規定的都含設在裡面所以也有可能是法規競合那所以是想像競合還是法條競合有可能看具體案件齁他們怎麼樣去判決具體案件我講得很清楚啊\n273388\t286535\t今天我成年人就是為一個小朋友為他吃毒品死了然後同時構成286第三項跟277第二項前端是想像競合還是法條競合你會用想像競合來請司法院副秘書長是想像競合還是法條競合\n295358\t307382\t那個當然看那個傷害那個凌虐兒童罪的這個不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童誓死罪的這個內涵了如果是全部cover當然就法規禁核如果沒有可能應該就想讓禁核\n307822\t322230\t你覺得286的不法內還有全部cover嗎277條我們是覺得應該是沒有啦你覺得應該是沒有所以是想像進而還法條進而如果沒有的話應該是想像進而應該是想像進而好從一眾處斷從哪一個條文處斷這個法官要很熟啦從一眾處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷\n337142\t340103\t是李聶宥同自己錯比較重嗎?你確定嗎?最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎?你們實際上面判決是這樣用的嗎?刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊,刑事法官也在了這個要很熟啦\n371257\t376638\t條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n400623\t422483\t最後才假說什麼是假說假說跟剛剛次長所講的答案跟巡視廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼是法規競合不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合來戰不戰成這一個高等法院座談會的結論\n425343\t437311\t二）委員高等法院座談會其實是沒有絕對技術力的,各案的法官是可以做不同的認定那辦這個座談會有什麼意義\n444172\t465063\t三）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員\n472092\t484141\t條文書來是這樣子的結論兩位都表示不贊成所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要\n484892\t505368\t因為按照實際最後運作的結果你修兩百八十六條有沒有用啊是一個超級大問號我為什麼說修兩百六十六 八十六條到底有沒有用是個超級大問號如果按照今天兩位在上面所表示的你們認為應該用想像進合處理從一重處斷下一個問題\n508126\t521238\t哪一個罪名比較重?兩百七十七條不要忘囉你如果是對於兒少犯的話依照兒少權益保護法一百一十二條的規定要不要加重刑刑二分之一?\n525015\t538119\t當然要加重嘛你有什麼時候用277條結果是對俄哨犯的不用依照112條加重不要內行人講外行話嘛所以哪一個會比你比較重\n540162\t558332\t加重了以後就會變成那個那個277條的傷害制止比較重對嘛按照你們所講的想像進合然後從一種阻斷結果最後我國實務上面的法律適用的會用哪一條就277條嘛277條第二項加上兒少法112條嘛從一種阻斷嘛是不是把286條給架空了我這樣說有沒有錯\n570001\t582970\t請表示意見。不是我的高見啦這個是實務上面運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法法制委員會的報告根本不及格\n584108\t604073\t二）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中\n606089\t627229\t而同犯傷害罪致死加重期刑二分之一以後他的刑度法官在量刑的空間在哪裡請說明無期徒刑不得加重嘛這個沒有問題嘛有期徒刑是七年以上有期徒刑嘛那七年以上有期徒刑的話加重以後適用的結果是如何請說明\n628686\t651904\t加重以後就變成七年一月以上然後二十年以下為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下這個是我第二個問題為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下來再往下看我們依照刑法的規定如果加重期刑至二分之一的話不是依照\n653089\t662663\t刑法三十六條的規定加重期刑要同加同減不應該出現只有加重上限卻不加重下限的結論嗎我有沒有說錯\n666206\t686495\t那如果沒有說錯的話為什麼我們實務上的法官七年以上有期徒刑加重期刑二分之一竟然量刑的時候是從七年一個月開始而不是按照立法者的意思我們加重期刑之二分之一最低的刑度應該是多少是不是十年六個月是不是十年六個月\n691554\t716023\t加重至那一邊喔至到那個那中間還是有一些的 range加重至啊對不起你現在在講什麼我已經完全聽不懂請你具體表明你的法律見解加重期刑二分之一那個button line到底是七年只變成七年一個月還是七年加重期刑二分之一要從十年六個月開始應該是哪一個法律見解\n720495\t726684\t三）委員實務上的見解的確是說只要是加重至二分之一的話就是有加重就可以\n727826\t751525\t這個就是問題嘛 這個就是問題嘛你們就要告訴所有的立法委員嘛我們實務上面的操作跟你們實際上面在修法的想像完全不一樣嘛當初立委在修法的時候加重刑刑二分之一看到刑法36條大家以為的是最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是七年以上有期徒刑\n752245\t761239\t依照兒少法加重期刑二分之一是不是應該最低是十年六個月以上有期徒刑但你們法院實際的判決就不是這樣做啊\n762691\t788291\t如果立法者修了法法官還是我刑我訴按照自己的法律見解來下判決我們當然尊重司法獨立我們也不會去干預個案但問題是什麼你們實務上面操作的結果荒謬到連台大法律系的教授許恆達都看不下去了直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作是違反刑法36條的規定難道沒有檢討的必要嗎\n792412\t805154\t是不是要立法者在立法的時候叫什麼叫做加重期刑至二分之一要白紙黑字寫得很清楚還要提供範例法官才看得下去\n806519\t827315\t需要做到這樣嗎?因為這牽涉到我們如果要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嗎?如果按照你們剛剛所講的想像競合也好法規競合也好最後操作出來的結果是286條已經被架空了當286條已經被架空了我們坐在這邊討論286條的修法不是很荒謬嗎?而這一件事情來我繼續往下看\n836994\t855274\t最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講啊採取想像進合說好沒有關係這個是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決接下來高等法院也跟立法者講啊高等法院說立法者在做286條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用\n856555\t880846\t輕重失衡。」什麼叫輕重失衡?因為你按照277條再加上俄哨法112條加重其刑之二分之一整個扭曲完了嘛!我有沒有說錯?來請教副廳長我沒有說錯!那這個是不是應該你們司法院提交給司法法制委員會的書院報告應該要告訴全體立法委員的?是不是你們應該做的?\n883439\t901389\t這部分我們應該是要檢討好好檢討啊要不然大家坐在這邊立法都沒有人知道欸你立歸你的啊法院有法院的玩法啊法條進合想像進合加重期刑吃二分之一搞了半天修286286用不到啊我請司法院注意喔我請司法院注意喔你們不會隨著\n909318\t924941\t政府換卸就離開位置你們還會在我的位置上這麼嚴肅的問題該做的事情要做好交到本院本委員會今天的報告我只能跟你說不及格不及格如果召委許可的話我希望\n926631\t938985\t請召委要求你們重新提一份報告就法律到底如何解釋適用在實務上到底發生怎麼回事清楚的跟所有的立法委員報告大家才知道接下來修法說要怎麼處理嘛可以嗎好謝謝請問一下那剛剛有沒有辦法依照委員的那個要求的時候再提\n","txt":"三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具 «中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案》案。\n二）委員蔡次長及司法院副秘書長、刑事廳副廳長或是今天所來的刑事廳法官,如果有必要的話,隨時上來協助。接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題。\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案案 刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案\n謝謝主席行司司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題但我今天破題我先講一件事請對面法務部的次長跟司法院的同仁大家不要見怪我講話比較直你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格因為\n在刑事司法的適用上涉及到的是非常專業的刑事法律的適用\n事由法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決去看實際操作的結果牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件我期待的是法律人就應該要把該處理的事情講清楚而你們的報告沒有做到這一點為什麼我會這樣講我們接著今天討論的問題我先破題點一件事情\n當社會上都在關注法定期有沒有提高的時候真正更該檢討的是我們實際上面實踐的結果所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後怎麼判的判完了以後最後關了多久\n二）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n虐待三歲的小女孩虐待三歲的小女孩有七大酷刑樣樣來從拔指甲淋虐燒他結果我們的法院判出來的對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死判13年6個月這個是在2017年5月10號判刑確定的結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正組合准假釋來次長關了多久\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13屆第16條條文修正草案．立法院第17條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第20條條文修正草案．立法院第21條條文修正草案．立法院第22條條文修正草案．立法院第23條條文修正草案．立法院第24條條文修正草案．立法院第25條條文修正草案．立\n怎麼檢討一個禮拜之內給報告可以嗎可以太離譜了啦接下來我們繼續看我直接問請教次長被告餵食甲酮毒品餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪\n法條禁核\n因為這個是一個行為齁那麼出犯了兩個罪名啦齁那麼這個有可能是想像競合但是對於這一項這個罪質啊那麼兩個規定的都含設在裡面所以也有可能是法規競合那所以是想像競合還是法條競合有可能看具體案件齁他們怎麼樣去判決具體案件我講得很清楚啊\n今天我成年人就是為一個小朋友為他吃毒品死了然後同時構成286第三項跟277第二項前端是想像競合還是法條競合你會用想像競合來請司法院副秘書長是想像競合還是法條競合\n那個當然看那個傷害那個凌虐兒童罪的這個不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童誓死罪的這個內涵了如果是全部cover當然就法規禁核如果沒有可能應該就想讓禁核\n你覺得286的不法內還有全部cover嗎277條我們是覺得應該是沒有啦你覺得應該是沒有所以是想像進而還法條進而如果沒有的話應該是想像進而應該是想像進而好從一眾處斷從哪一個條文處斷這個法官要很熟啦從一眾處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷\n是李聶宥同自己錯比較重嗎?你確定嗎?最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎?你們實際上面判決是這樣用的嗎?刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊,刑事法官也在了這個要很熟啦\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n最後才假說什麼是假說假說跟剛剛次長所講的答案跟巡視廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼是法規競合不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合來戰不戰成這一個高等法院座談會的結論\n二）委員高等法院座談會其實是沒有絕對技術力的,各案的法官是可以做不同的認定那辦這個座談會有什麼意義\n三）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員\n條文書來是這樣子的結論兩位都表示不贊成所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要\n因為按照實際最後運作的結果你修兩百八十六條有沒有用啊是一個超級大問號我為什麼說修兩百六十六 八十六條到底有沒有用是個超級大問號如果按照今天兩位在上面所表示的你們認為應該用想像進合處理從一重處斷下一個問題\n哪一個罪名比較重?兩百七十七條不要忘囉你如果是對於兒少犯的話依照兒少權益保護法一百一十二條的規定要不要加重刑刑二分之一?\n當然要加重嘛你有什麼時候用277條結果是對俄哨犯的不用依照112條加重不要內行人講外行話嘛所以哪一個會比你比較重\n加重了以後就會變成那個那個277條的傷害制止比較重對嘛按照你們所講的想像進合然後從一種阻斷結果最後我國實務上面的法律適用的會用哪一條就277條嘛277條第二項加上兒少法112條嘛從一種阻斷嘛是不是把286條給架空了我這樣說有沒有錯\n請表示意見。不是我的高見啦這個是實務上面運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法法制委員會的報告根本不及格\n二）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中\n而同犯傷害罪致死加重期刑二分之一以後他的刑度法官在量刑的空間在哪裡請說明無期徒刑不得加重嘛這個沒有問題嘛有期徒刑是七年以上有期徒刑嘛那七年以上有期徒刑的話加重以後適用的結果是如何請說明\n加重以後就變成七年一月以上然後二十年以下為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下這個是我第二個問題為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下來再往下看我們依照刑法的規定如果加重期刑至二分之一的話不是依照\n刑法三十六條的規定加重期刑要同加同減不應該出現只有加重上限卻不加重下限的結論嗎我有沒有說錯\n那如果沒有說錯的話為什麼我們實務上的法官七年以上有期徒刑加重期刑二分之一竟然量刑的時候是從七年一個月開始而不是按照立法者的意思我們加重期刑之二分之一最低的刑度應該是多少是不是十年六個月是不是十年六個月\n加重至那一邊喔至到那個那中間還是有一些的 range加重至啊對不起你現在在講什麼我已經完全聽不懂請你具體表明你的法律見解加重期刑二分之一那個button line到底是七年只變成七年一個月還是七年加重期刑二分之一要從十年六個月開始應該是哪一個法律見解\n三）委員實務上的見解的確是說只要是加重至二分之一的話就是有加重就可以\n這個就是問題嘛 這個就是問題嘛你們就要告訴所有的立法委員嘛我們實務上面的操作跟你們實際上面在修法的想像完全不一樣嘛當初立委在修法的時候加重刑刑二分之一看到刑法36條大家以為的是最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是七年以上有期徒刑\n依照兒少法加重期刑二分之一是不是應該最低是十年六個月以上有期徒刑但你們法院實際的判決就不是這樣做啊\n如果立法者修了法法官還是我刑我訴按照自己的法律見解來下判決我們當然尊重司法獨立我們也不會去干預個案但問題是什麼你們實務上面操作的結果荒謬到連台大法律系的教授許恆達都看不下去了直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作是違反刑法36條的規定難道沒有檢討的必要嗎\n是不是要立法者在立法的時候叫什麼叫做加重期刑至二分之一要白紙黑字寫得很清楚還要提供範例法官才看得下去\n需要做到這樣嗎?因為這牽涉到我們如果要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嗎?如果按照你們剛剛所講的想像競合也好法規競合也好最後操作出來的結果是286條已經被架空了當286條已經被架空了我們坐在這邊討論286條的修法不是很荒謬嗎?而這一件事情來我繼續往下看\n最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講啊採取想像進合說好沒有關係這個是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決接下來高等法院也跟立法者講啊高等法院說立法者在做286條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用\n輕重失衡。」什麼叫輕重失衡?因為你按照277條再加上俄哨法112條加重其刑之二分之一整個扭曲完了嘛!我有沒有說錯?來請教副廳長我沒有說錯!那這個是不是應該你們司法院提交給司法法制委員會的書院報告應該要告訴全體立法委員的?是不是你們應該做的?\n這部分我們應該是要檢討好好檢討啊要不然大家坐在這邊立法都沒有人知道欸你立歸你的啊法院有法院的玩法啊法條進合想像進合加重期刑吃二分之一搞了半天修286286用不到啊我請司法院注意喔我請司法院注意喔你們不會隨著\n政府換卸就離開位置你們還會在我的位置上這麼嚴肅的問題該做的事情要做好交到本院本委員會今天的報告我只能跟你說不及格不及格如果召委許可的話我希望\n請召委要求你們重新提一份報告就法律到底如何解釋適用在實務上到底發生怎麼回事清楚的跟所有的立法委員報告大家才知道接下來修法說要怎麼處理嘛可以嗎好謝謝請問一下那剛剛有沒有辦法依照委員的那個要求的時候再提\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.851 --> 00:07.766\n三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具«中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案》案。\n\n00:16.319 --> 00:32.826\n二）委員蔡次長及司法院副秘書長、刑事廳副廳長或是今天所來的刑事廳法官,如果有必要的話,隨時上來協助。接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題。\n\n00:43.491 --> 00:45.894\n刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案案刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案\n\n01:01.957 --> 01:27.338\n謝謝主席行司司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題但我今天破題我先講一件事請對面法務部的次長跟司法院的同仁大家不要見怪我講話比較直你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格因為\n\n01:28.599 --> 01:35.157\n在刑事司法的適用上涉及到的是非常專業的刑事法律的適用\n\n01:36.331 --> 01:58.726\n事由法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決去看實際操作的結果牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件我期待的是法律人就應該要把該處理的事情講清楚而你們的報告沒有做到這一點為什麼我會這樣講我們接著今天討論的問題我先破題點一件事情\n\n02:04.139 --> 02:23.380\n當社會上都在關注法定期有沒有提高的時候真正更該檢討的是我們實際上面實踐的結果所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後怎麼判的判完了以後最後關了多久\n\n02:24.383 --> 02:28.826\n二）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具\n\n02:47.850 --> 03:13.552\n虐待三歲的小女孩虐待三歲的小女孩有七大酷刑樣樣來從拔指甲淋虐燒他結果我們的法院判出來的對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死判13年6個月這個是在2017年5月10號判刑確定的結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正組合准假釋來次長關了多久\n\n03:16.630 --> 03:32.309\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13屆第16條條文修正草案．立法院第17條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第20條條文修正草案．立法院第21條條文修正草案．立法院第22條條文修正草案．立法院第23條條文修正草案．立法院第24條條文修正草案．立法院第25條條文修正草案．立\n\n03:35.680 --> 03:50.720\n怎麼檢討一個禮拜之內給報告可以嗎可以太離譜了啦接下來我們繼續看我直接問請教次長被告餵食甲酮毒品餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪\n\n03:52.807 --> 03:53.067\n法條禁核\n\n04:09.212 --> 04:32.488\n因為這個是一個行為齁那麼出犯了兩個罪名啦齁那麼這個有可能是想像競合但是對於這一項這個罪質啊那麼兩個規定的都含設在裡面所以也有可能是法規競合那所以是想像競合還是法條競合有可能看具體案件齁他們怎麼樣去判決具體案件我講得很清楚啊\n\n04:33.388 --> 04:46.535\n今天我成年人就是為一個小朋友為他吃毒品死了然後同時構成286第三項跟277第二項前端是想像競合還是法條競合你會用想像競合來請司法院副秘書長是想像競合還是法條競合\n\n04:55.358 --> 05:07.382\n那個當然看那個傷害那個凌虐兒童罪的這個不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童誓死罪的這個內涵了如果是全部cover當然就法規禁核如果沒有可能應該就想讓禁核\n\n05:07.822 --> 05:22.230\n你覺得286的不法內還有全部cover嗎277條我們是覺得應該是沒有啦你覺得應該是沒有所以是想像進而還法條進而如果沒有的話應該是想像進而應該是想像進而好從一眾處斷從哪一個條文處斷這個法官要很熟啦從一眾處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷\n\n05:37.142 --> 05:40.103\n是李聶宥同自己錯比較重嗎?你確定嗎?最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎?你們實際上面判決是這樣用的嗎?刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊,刑事法官也在了這個要很熟啦\n\n06:11.257 --> 06:16.638\n條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n06:40.623 --> 07:02.483\n最後才假說什麼是假說假說跟剛剛次長所講的答案跟巡視廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼是法規競合不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合來戰不戰成這一個高等法院座談會的結論\n\n07:05.343 --> 07:17.311\n二）委員高等法院座談會其實是沒有絕對技術力的,各案的法官是可以做不同的認定那辦這個座談會有什麼意義\n\n07:24.172 --> 07:45.063\n三）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員\n\n07:52.092 --> 08:04.141\n條文書來是這樣子的結論兩位都表示不贊成所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要\n\n08:04.892 --> 08:25.368\n因為按照實際最後運作的結果你修兩百八十六條有沒有用啊是一個超級大問號我為什麼說修兩百六十六八十六條到底有沒有用是個超級大問號如果按照今天兩位在上面所表示的你們認為應該用想像進合處理從一重處斷下一個問題\n\n08:28.126 --> 08:41.238\n哪一個罪名比較重?兩百七十七條不要忘囉你如果是對於兒少犯的話依照兒少權益保護法一百一十二條的規定要不要加重刑刑二分之一?\n\n08:45.015 --> 08:58.119\n當然要加重嘛你有什麼時候用277條結果是對俄哨犯的不用依照112條加重不要內行人講外行話嘛所以哪一個會比你比較重\n\n09:00.162 --> 09:18.332\n加重了以後就會變成那個那個277條的傷害制止比較重對嘛按照你們所講的想像進合然後從一種阻斷結果最後我國實務上面的法律適用的會用哪一條就277條嘛277條第二項加上兒少法112條嘛從一種阻斷嘛是不是把286條給架空了我這樣說有沒有錯\n\n09:30.001 --> 09:42.970\n請表示意見。不是我的高見啦這個是實務上面運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法法制委員會的報告根本不及格\n\n09:44.108 --> 10:04.073\n二）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中\n\n10:06.089 --> 10:27.229\n而同犯傷害罪致死加重期刑二分之一以後他的刑度法官在量刑的空間在哪裡請說明無期徒刑不得加重嘛這個沒有問題嘛有期徒刑是七年以上有期徒刑嘛那七年以上有期徒刑的話加重以後適用的結果是如何請說明\n\n10:28.686 --> 10:51.904\n加重以後就變成七年一月以上然後二十年以下為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下這個是我第二個問題為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下來再往下看我們依照刑法的規定如果加重期刑至二分之一的話不是依照\n\n10:53.089 --> 11:02.663\n刑法三十六條的規定加重期刑要同加同減不應該出現只有加重上限卻不加重下限的結論嗎我有沒有說錯\n\n11:06.206 --> 11:26.495\n那如果沒有說錯的話為什麼我們實務上的法官七年以上有期徒刑加重期刑二分之一竟然量刑的時候是從七年一個月開始而不是按照立法者的意思我們加重期刑之二分之一最低的刑度應該是多少是不是十年六個月是不是十年六個月\n\n11:31.554 --> 11:56.023\n加重至那一邊喔至到那個那中間還是有一些的range加重至啊對不起你現在在講什麼我已經完全聽不懂請你具體表明你的法律見解加重期刑二分之一那個buttonline到底是七年只變成七年一個月還是七年加重期刑二分之一要從十年六個月開始應該是哪一個法律見解\n\n12:00.495 --> 12:06.684\n三）委員實務上的見解的確是說只要是加重至二分之一的話就是有加重就可以\n\n12:07.826 --> 12:31.525\n這個就是問題嘛這個就是問題嘛你們就要告訴所有的立法委員嘛我們實務上面的操作跟你們實際上面在修法的想像完全不一樣嘛當初立委在修法的時候加重刑刑二分之一看到刑法36條大家以為的是最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是七年以上有期徒刑\n\n12:32.245 --> 12:41.239\n依照兒少法加重期刑二分之一是不是應該最低是十年六個月以上有期徒刑但你們法院實際的判決就不是這樣做啊\n\n12:42.691 --> 13:08.291\n如果立法者修了法法官還是我刑我訴按照自己的法律見解來下判決我們當然尊重司法獨立我們也不會去干預個案但問題是什麼你們實務上面操作的結果荒謬到連台大法律系的教授許恆達都看不下去了直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作是違反刑法36條的規定難道沒有檢討的必要嗎\n\n13:12.412 --> 13:25.154\n是不是要立法者在立法的時候叫什麼叫做加重期刑至二分之一要白紙黑字寫得很清楚還要提供範例法官才看得下去\n\n13:26.519 --> 13:47.315\n需要做到這樣嗎?因為這牽涉到我們如果要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嗎?如果按照你們剛剛所講的想像競合也好法規競合也好最後操作出來的結果是286條已經被架空了當286條已經被架空了我們坐在這邊討論286條的修法不是很荒謬嗎?而這一件事情來我繼續往下看\n\n13:56.994 --> 14:15.274\n最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講啊採取想像進合說好沒有關係這個是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決接下來高等法院也跟立法者講啊高等法院說立法者在做286條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用\n\n14:16.555 --> 14:40.846\n輕重失衡。」什麼叫輕重失衡?因為你按照277條再加上俄哨法112條加重其刑之二分之一整個扭曲完了嘛!我有沒有說錯?來請教副廳長我沒有說錯!那這個是不是應該你們司法院提交給司法法制委員會的書院報告應該要告訴全體立法委員的?是不是你們應該做的?\n\n14:43.439 --> 15:01.389\n這部分我們應該是要檢討好好檢討啊要不然大家坐在這邊立法都沒有人知道欸你立歸你的啊法院有法院的玩法啊法條進合想像進合加重期刑吃二分之一搞了半天修286286用不到啊我請司法院注意喔我請司法院注意喔你們不會隨著\n\n15:09.318 --> 15:24.941\n政府換卸就離開位置你們還會在我的位置上這麼嚴肅的問題該做的事情要做好交到本院本委員會今天的報告我只能跟你說不及格不及格如果召委許可的話我希望\n\n15:26.631 --> 15:38.985\n請召委要求你們重新提一份報告就法律到底如何解釋適用在實務上到底發生怎麼回事清楚的跟所有的立法委員報告大家才知道接下來修法說要怎麼處理嘛可以嗎好謝謝請問一下那剛剛有沒有辦法依照委員的那個要求的時候再提\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.851,"end":7.766,"text":"三）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具 «中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":16.319,"end":32.826,"text":"二）委員蔡次長及司法院副秘書長、刑事廳副廳長或是今天所來的刑事廳法官,如果有必要的話,隨時上來協助。接下來我們要討論的是刑事法專業度非常高的問題。"},{"start":43.491,"end":45.894,"text":"刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案案 刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案"},{"start":61.957,"end":87.338,"text":"謝謝主席行司司法下面的兒少保護是一個非常重要的問題但我今天破題我先講一件事請對面法務部的次長跟司法院的同仁大家不要見怪我講話比較直你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格我為什麼說你們今天交上來的書面報告完全不及格因為"},{"start":88.599,"end":95.157,"text":"在刑事司法的適用上涉及到的是非常專業的刑事法律的適用"},{"start":96.331,"end":118.726,"text":"事由法制委員會的委員沒有那麼多時間去看法院的判決去看實際操作的結果牽涉到兒少保護這麼重大的事件我期待的是法律人就應該要把該處理的事情講清楚而你們的報告沒有做到這一點為什麼我會這樣講我們接著今天討論的問題我先破題點一件事情"},{"start":124.139,"end":143.38,"text":"當社會上都在關注法定期有沒有提高的時候真正更該檢討的是我們實際上面實踐的結果所謂實踐的結果是說法院的判刑最後怎麼判的判完了以後最後關了多久"},{"start":144.383,"end":148.826,"text":"二）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員廖偉翔等19人擬具"},{"start":167.85,"end":193.552,"text":"虐待三歲的小女孩虐待三歲的小女孩有七大酷刑樣樣來從拔指甲淋虐燒他結果我們的法院判出來的對兒童故意犯傷害罪致死判13年6個月這個是在2017年5月10號判刑確定的結果2023年12月7號法務部矯正組合准假釋來次長關了多久"},{"start":196.63,"end":212.309,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13屆第16條條文修正草案．立法院第17條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第18條條文修正草案．立法院第19條條文修正草案．立法院第20條條文修正草案．立法院第21條條文修正草案．立法院第22條條文修正草案．立法院第23條條文修正草案．立法院第24條條文修正草案．立法院第25條條文修正草案．立"},{"start":215.68,"end":230.72,"text":"怎麼檢討一個禮拜之內給報告可以嗎可以太離譜了啦接下來我們繼續看我直接問請教次長被告餵食甲酮毒品餵他吃毒品致死觸犯什麼罪"},{"start":232.807,"end":233.067,"text":"法條禁核"},{"start":249.212,"end":272.488,"text":"因為這個是一個行為齁那麼出犯了兩個罪名啦齁那麼這個有可能是想像競合但是對於這一項這個罪質啊那麼兩個規定的都含設在裡面所以也有可能是法規競合那所以是想像競合還是法條競合有可能看具體案件齁他們怎麼樣去判決具體案件我講得很清楚啊"},{"start":273.388,"end":286.535,"text":"今天我成年人就是為一個小朋友為他吃毒品死了然後同時構成286第三項跟277第二項前端是想像競合還是法條競合你會用想像競合來請司法院副秘書長是想像競合還是法條競合"},{"start":295.358,"end":307.382,"text":"那個當然看那個傷害那個凌虐兒童罪的這個不法內涵是不是已經全部cover傷害兒童誓死罪的這個內涵了如果是全部cover當然就法規禁核如果沒有可能應該就想讓禁核"},{"start":307.822,"end":322.23,"text":"你覺得286的不法內還有全部cover嗎277條我們是覺得應該是沒有啦你覺得應該是沒有所以是想像進而還法條進而如果沒有的話應該是想像進而應該是想像進而好從一眾處斷從哪一個條文處斷這個法官要很熟啦從一眾處斷是依照哪一個罪名處斷"},{"start":337.142,"end":340.103,"text":"是李聶宥同自己錯比較重嗎?你確定嗎?最高法院的判決是這樣講的嗎?你們實際上面判決是這樣用的嗎?刑事廳的副廳長都在這邊,刑事法官也在了這個要很熟啦"},{"start":371.257,"end":376.638,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員"},{"start":400.623,"end":422.483,"text":"最後才假說什麼是假說假說跟剛剛次長所講的答案跟巡視廳副廳長講的答案全部都不一樣我國高等法院的座談最後要採取的是什麼是法規競合不是你們剛剛所想的想像競合來戰不戰成這一個高等法院座談會的結論"},{"start":425.343,"end":437.311,"text":"二）委員高等法院座談會其實是沒有絕對技術力的,各案的法官是可以做不同的認定那辦這個座談會有什麼意義"},{"start":444.172,"end":465.063,"text":"三）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員會及法律委員"},{"start":472.092,"end":484.141,"text":"條文書來是這樣子的結論兩位都表示不贊成所以我才說這樣的討論有何意義為什麼這件事情在我們今天修法的時候很重要"},{"start":484.892,"end":505.368,"text":"因為按照實際最後運作的結果你修兩百八十六條有沒有用啊是一個超級大問號我為什麼說修兩百六十六 八十六條到底有沒有用是個超級大問號如果按照今天兩位在上面所表示的你們認為應該用想像進合處理從一重處斷下一個問題"},{"start":508.126,"end":521.238,"text":"哪一個罪名比較重?兩百七十七條不要忘囉你如果是對於兒少犯的話依照兒少權益保護法一百一十二條的規定要不要加重刑刑二分之一?"},{"start":525.015,"end":538.119,"text":"當然要加重嘛你有什麼時候用277條結果是對俄哨犯的不用依照112條加重不要內行人講外行話嘛所以哪一個會比你比較重"},{"start":540.162,"end":558.332,"text":"加重了以後就會變成那個那個277條的傷害制止比較重對嘛按照你們所講的想像進合然後從一種阻斷結果最後我國實務上面的法律適用的會用哪一條就277條嘛277條第二項加上兒少法112條嘛從一種阻斷嘛是不是把286條給架空了我這樣說有沒有錯"},{"start":570.001,"end":582.97,"text":"請表示意見。不是我的高見啦這個是實務上面運作出來的結果就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼說你們今天交到立法院司法法制委員會的報告根本不及格"},{"start":584.108,"end":604.073,"text":"二）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條條文修正草案．一）委員黃健豪等19人擬具:「中"},{"start":606.089,"end":627.229,"text":"而同犯傷害罪致死加重期刑二分之一以後他的刑度法官在量刑的空間在哪裡請說明無期徒刑不得加重嘛這個沒有問題嘛有期徒刑是七年以上有期徒刑嘛那七年以上有期徒刑的話加重以後適用的結果是如何請說明"},{"start":628.686,"end":651.904,"text":"加重以後就變成七年一月以上然後二十年以下為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下這個是我第二個問題為什麼是七年一個月以上二十年以下來再往下看我們依照刑法的規定如果加重期刑至二分之一的話不是依照"},{"start":653.089,"end":662.663,"text":"刑法三十六條的規定加重期刑要同加同減不應該出現只有加重上限卻不加重下限的結論嗎我有沒有說錯"},{"start":666.206,"end":686.495,"text":"那如果沒有說錯的話為什麼我們實務上的法官七年以上有期徒刑加重期刑二分之一竟然量刑的時候是從七年一個月開始而不是按照立法者的意思我們加重期刑之二分之一最低的刑度應該是多少是不是十年六個月是不是十年六個月"},{"start":691.554,"end":716.023,"text":"加重至那一邊喔至到那個那中間還是有一些的 range加重至啊對不起你現在在講什麼我已經完全聽不懂請你具體表明你的法律見解加重期刑二分之一那個button line到底是七年只變成七年一個月還是七年加重期刑二分之一要從十年六個月開始應該是哪一個法律見解"},{"start":720.495,"end":726.684,"text":"三）委員實務上的見解的確是說只要是加重至二分之一的話就是有加重就可以"},{"start":727.826,"end":751.525,"text":"這個就是問題嘛 這個就是問題嘛你們就要告訴所有的立法委員嘛我們實務上面的操作跟你們實際上面在修法的想像完全不一樣嘛當初立委在修法的時候加重刑刑二分之一看到刑法36條大家以為的是最低法定刑本來一般的故意傷害致死是不是七年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":752.245,"end":761.239,"text":"依照兒少法加重期刑二分之一是不是應該最低是十年六個月以上有期徒刑但你們法院實際的判決就不是這樣做啊"},{"start":762.691,"end":788.291,"text":"如果立法者修了法法官還是我刑我訴按照自己的法律見解來下判決我們當然尊重司法獨立我們也不會去干預個案但問題是什麼你們實務上面操作的結果荒謬到連台大法律系的教授許恆達都看不下去了直接給你們的法律意見是你們這樣的操作是違反刑法36條的規定難道沒有檢討的必要嗎"},{"start":792.412,"end":805.154,"text":"是不是要立法者在立法的時候叫什麼叫做加重期刑至二分之一要白紙黑字寫得很清楚還要提供範例法官才看得下去"},{"start":806.519,"end":827.315,"text":"需要做到這樣嗎?因為這牽涉到我們如果要有效立法的話到底要怎麼樣進行嗎?如果按照你們剛剛所講的想像競合也好法規競合也好最後操作出來的結果是286條已經被架空了當286條已經被架空了我們坐在這邊討論286條的修法不是很荒謬嗎?而這一件事情來我繼續往下看"},{"start":836.994,"end":855.274,"text":"最高法院的見解我直接跟你們講啊採取想像進合說好沒有關係這個是上個月月底出現的最高法院判決接下來高等法院也跟立法者講啊高等法院說立法者在做286條刑度修正的時候根本沒有用"},{"start":856.555,"end":880.846,"text":"輕重失衡。」什麼叫輕重失衡?因為你按照277條再加上俄哨法112條加重其刑之二分之一整個扭曲完了嘛!我有沒有說錯?來請教副廳長我沒有說錯!那這個是不是應該你們司法院提交給司法法制委員會的書院報告應該要告訴全體立法委員的?是不是你們應該做的?"},{"start":883.439,"end":901.389,"text":"這部分我們應該是要檢討好好檢討啊要不然大家坐在這邊立法都沒有人知道欸你立歸你的啊法院有法院的玩法啊法條進合想像進合加重期刑吃二分之一搞了半天修286286用不到啊我請司法院注意喔我請司法院注意喔你們不會隨著"},{"start":909.318,"end":924.941,"text":"政府換卸就離開位置你們還會在我的位置上這麼嚴肅的問題該做的事情要做好交到本院本委員會今天的報告我只能跟你說不及格不及格如果召委許可的話我希望"},{"start":926.631,"end":938.985,"text":"請召委要求你們重新提一份報告就法律到底如何解釋適用在實務上到底發生怎麼回事清楚的跟所有的立法委員報告大家才知道接下來修法說要怎麼處理嘛可以嗎好謝謝請問一下那剛剛有沒有辦法依照委員的那個要求的時候再提"}]}}}}