{"id":151276,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151276","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627238928e5be901e0f0915613d02a5e1dcc5dab72e655c1c9458fff7e47292a95a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:23:43 - 11:36:33","影片長度":"00:12:50","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「教改30年廣設大學及技專升格如今面臨整併退場之問題及對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n（4月17日及18日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":770,"end_time":"2024-04-17T11:36:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T11:23:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":532,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時23分）有請部長，謝謝主席。"],["潘部長文忠：召委好。"],["林委員宜瑾：部長好。部長，在進入今天的主題之前，我先提一件事情，就是臺北大學發生學校端的高層疑似介入學生會選舉，干涉學生自治組織運作的事件，學校端雖然否認，可是對話截圖都有了，請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎？因為臺北大學最近的狀況確實特別多。"],["潘部長文忠：這個案子我們會再持續了解，因為學生有反映這個意見。召委，應該這樣子講，如果今天用各種條件等等去鼓勵學生，我覺得不是我們可接受、樂見的。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然。"],["潘部長文忠：一般參與學生自治，當然老師去鼓勵，這是OK啦！"],["林委員宜瑾：就是讓他們自己去……對。"],["潘部長文忠：他們是提出說好像有師長用其他幾種誘因，我們在這方面會再做深入了解，我覺得有點刻意地去影響就不好，如果只是單純鼓勵，我們都說鼓勵年輕人……"],["林委員宜瑾：因為臺北大學最近發生滿多事情，像前陣子它好像臨時要把一個宿舍關閉，無預警就要關閉，然後要讓人家搬遷，然後學生代表在會議中要發言也被強迫關麥，等等啦！所以臺北大學現在的學校端不曉得發生什麼事情，我想還是請教育部跟他們溝通一下。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["林委員宜瑾：另外，針對今天的主題，就是教改的問題，我想教改30年來當然有它的侷限跟缺點，可是我不認為真的就像一些特定人士所說的那麼一無是處，教育跟知識的普及不是壞事，可是我們應當進一步去想，如何在大學的量能充足之下，也要兼顧教育資源的配置、教育品質及教育公共化這個議題。","我想1990年，我們回顧一下，1990年高職教育是主流，大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系，當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低，甚至在108學年度已經跌破5成，與一般高中生出現了黃金交叉。另外，根據應屆畢業生升學就業概況調查來看，110學年升學到私立大學的學生有8.8萬人，占升學者的5成7，公立大學是4成，所以換句話說，私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生。如果以上兩大點都涉及了所謂的教育資源的分配，請問部長，我們如何面對技職人才的流失？有什麼具體的策略？再請部長說明，我們為了追求教育的公共化，以達成公立學校學生數過半為目標，這個目標你是否認同？"],["潘部長文忠：是，謝謝委員。因為我們國內在高中階段本來就有一個氛圍，早期確實就讀技職體系，包含五專，因為多數的五專都是比較以技職為主，所以可以看得出來，那個量很清楚，占比也高，因為當時的大學入學比例，委員也了解嘛！"],["林委員宜瑾：窄門。"],["潘部長文忠：很窄，所以反過來，在家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展，這是在那個時空。當然410教改，我早上也跟很多委員報告，以當時的時空，臺灣是面對一個戒嚴後……"],["林委員宜瑾：先把窄門打開一點。"],["潘部長文忠：很多教育是被嚴格地規範單一的標準，所以才有410這麼多的團體出來，希望教育鬆綁，希望能夠適度地增加孩子升學的機會，包含教育現代化等等的措施。這樣的變革剛好碰到臺灣在少子化的過程，這30年當中，在87年左右啦！因為我一直在注意相關的情形，就發現整個生源已經減少了，到目前為止，看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中。"],["林委員宜瑾：對。"],["潘部長文忠：所以現在去看當時的改制升格，速度真的快了一點，在10年不到的時間，幾乎大部分都……"],["林委員宜瑾：如雨後春筍。"],["潘部長文忠：對，尤其是五專大量改變，當時五專占的比率相當高，幾乎占當時大專校院的一半，但是後來統統都改制了，如果從這種角度來看，當然大家會覺得當時為什麼要開放這麼多，造成現在學校過剩的現象。但是如果從整體來講，我還是必須要提到，未來不管是產業的發展、等等的發展，已經不是那麼侷限在單一領域、單一專長的概念，其實我們應該是說在這個現象之後，退場是一件很為難的事，但不得不，但是如何在教育上讓孩子能夠學到更多，甚至於具備更多專長，包括跨領域的部分，讓他能夠銜接未來的職涯發展，我覺得我們應該更加努力啦！所以才會說人少了，其實個個都是需要國家好好栽培的對象，不是只有讀書這一件事情。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然。"],["潘部長文忠：因為現在在臺灣貢獻很大的社會界、產業界，好多也未必都是一路升學表現最好的，俗稱的學霸，我覺得未必。"],["林委員宜瑾：對。剛剛我有提到，追求教育公共化是我們很大的一個目標，未來有沒有可能公立院校會大於私立院校，來承接更多的學生？這樣的目標你認同嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：當然就讀公立，那是公共化的一環。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，當然。"],["潘部長文忠：在措施上，就讀私立學校，比如像蔡總統、賴總統這邊提出的政策主張，補助私校學費的目標是希望讓孩子在選擇的過程當中不是只有公立，但是減輕就學負擔，它本身也是公共化的方式之一。","再來，弱勢孩子的協助，弱勢孩子不管讀到公立讀到私立，這個措施也是我們在談的公共化，所以公共化大概不會單獨以多少人讀公校作為唯一的比例，但是如果從教育平權的角度來看，我覺得政府要持續來努力，讓孩子的選擇是多元的。我相信以少子化生源的發展，多數學生還是會把就讀公立作為優先選擇，所以從招生的註冊率等等來看，在多數來講，公立還是比私立高，我想那是一個……"],["林委員宜瑾：未來的趨勢。"],["潘部長文忠：未來的趨勢，但是我也覺得政府不是用過度強力的方式說一定要維持，我要增加都是公立的。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然。"],["潘部長文忠：因為私校對臺灣社會還是有它的貢獻，只是說教學品質這件事，我認為是政府要把關的。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，就誠如部長所說，我覺得少子化是一個衝擊，也是一個轉機，我們怎麼樣在高教量能比起過去還要豐沛的情況之下，重視質跟量的改革，這樣子才能讓整個教育資源落實在孩子的身上。","我們來談到私校退場問題，花蓮大漢技術學院的師生今天在我們立法院門口做陳抗，他們今天就是為了要揭露學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產，擅自宣布要停招、停辦，沒有依照所謂的私校退場條例的路徑在走。特別是他們是先斬後奏，他們是先宣告要停辦了，下學年就要停招了，然後在4月份才開說明會等等，不曉得你有沒有對這個事情有所掌握？"],["潘部長文忠：有。大漢技術學院如果以目前的法規，我想我們本來就是依法，它在各方面並沒有被我們列為專輔學校。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，也沒有。預警沒有，專輔也沒有。"],["潘部長文忠：對。因為有時候有一些團體他們希望教育部應該直接介入，我說它不是用私校退場條例的方式，政府是沒有說我現在就直接幫你取代，但是大漢技術學院未來停辦等等的事項，它是有一個校內的程序，教育部還有一個嚴謹的把關啦！我想依法行政來做這件事情是目前來講，教育部會去堅持的程序，尤其是它如果真的因為招生狀況很不好，因為現在就我所掌握到的，全校日、夜間部加起來，這個科系總共不到200人，一百多個學生，那是不是能夠持續地維持，董事會當然會依法去做評估。之後如果它提出停辦的計畫，教育部一定會很嚴格地要求教職員工以及學生權益的維護，還有學校怎麼去應變，這個是我們最後審查同不同意一個非常重要的關鍵，也會經過私校諮詢會的專業在最上面做判斷，來做把關。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，我想少子化的影響是全面性的，我們最表象看到的就是它的班級數、學生數、學生跟教師的比例方面，以我們臺南市為例，今年小一的新生相較去年就少了1,000人，已經連續兩年新生明顯下降，預估明後年會更少。不過有個特殊的狀況，就是我們即將升國一的小六新生因為在龍年出生，增加了三千一百多人，所以我們今年的小學是減班，可是國中卻是增班。請問部長，有沒有盤整過全臺的狀況？我想這不是特例，應該每個縣市都有這樣的狀況。"],["潘部長文忠：召委所提的就是現在整體的趨勢。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，那如何因應？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟召委報告，目前我們可以看到已出生的，就是112年年底就知道的那個數據，包含前一年，這些都是既成已有的數字，也看得出波段，所以在這個過程，國中、國小因為是義務教育階段，如果做學校增減班，甚至有沒有併校、廢校，其實是有一個非常清楚的規範給地方政府來做依循。當然，確保學生的受教權益及就學權益，這是我們在處理的原則，如果說學校真的縣市要併了，你必須要考慮學生的就學，如果要到好遠，你必須考慮是不是直接讓學生每天搭1小時或多少車程才能上學，在義務教育階段這不妥當，所以我們要求地方政府在做考慮的時候，你應該把這些都一併提出，尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明，我想這個還是最大的前提。當然，少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學、大專校院，我們現在是很努力地跟公私立大學校院一起來招收國際學生、境外學生，成效也不錯，但是中小學這一塊是比較不容易，也不可能招小留學生來臺灣，所以這一塊會比較嚴謹地在作法上來確保學生的就學權益，如果一旦有做處理，對教職員工的權益還是要維護。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝部長說明，也謝謝召委。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝召委。"],["主席：接下來請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","吳沛憶","林倩綺","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","張雅琳","葉元之","吳春城","范雲","張嘉郡","羅智強","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","廖偉翔","莊瑞雄","劉建國","王鴻薇","陳冠廷"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「教改30年廣設大學及技專升格如今面臨整併退場之問題及對策」\n進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"151276","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151276","tool":"pyannote","id":"151276-pyannote"},"job_id":"2FKaNYSsrpmEe4tF","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 499.535, \"end\": 499.715, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 499.715, \"end\": 500.476, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 500.476, \"end\": 502.477, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"漢\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"誇\"}, {\"word\": \"臉\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 502.477, \"end\": 502.617, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 502.617, \"end\": 502.937, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"漢\"}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 502.937, \"end\": 503.058, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 503.058, \"end\": 503.418, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 503.418, \"end\": 503.878, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 503.878, \"end\": 504.058, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 504.058, \"end\": 504.278, \"score\": 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\"start\": 746.221, \"end\": 746.261, \"score\": 0.049}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 746.261, \"end\": 746.281, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 746.281, \"end\": 746.301, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 746.301, \"end\": 746.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,109\n趙薇好\n\n2\n00:00:09,242 --> 00:00:33,848\n部長好部長要跟您進入今天的主題之前我先提一件事情就是台北大學有發生這個學校端的高層疑似介入這個學生會的選舉干涉這個學生自治組織運作的事件那學校端雖然否認可是對話截圖都有了那請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎因為台北大學最近的狀況確實特別多\n\n3\n00:00:37,429 --> 00:00:37,850\n李卓人議員\n\n4\n00:00:58,033 --> 00:00:58,914\n現在就是說因為臺北大學最近也發生蠻多事情的\n\n5\n00:01:14,702 --> 00:01:17,283\n請教育部跟他們溝通一下另外我想針對今天的主題就是教改的問題我想教改\n\n6\n00:01:44,696 --> 00:02:10,509\n這個30年來當然有它的局限跟缺點可是我不認為真的有像一些特定人士所說的就是說那麼的一無是處教育跟知識的普及不是壞事可是我們應當進一步去想說該如何在大學的量能充足之下也要兼顧教育資源的配置跟教育品質跟教育公共化的這個議題\n\n7\n00:02:11,750 --> 00:02:35,772\n那我想1990年我們回顧一下1990年高職教育是主流那大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系那可是當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低那甚至在108學年度已經跌破了五成跟就讀一般的高中生出現的黃金交叉那另外我們在看\n\n8\n00:02:36,693 --> 00:02:53,424\n根據我們這個應屆的畢業生的升學就業的蓋範調查來看110學年升學到私立大學的學生有這個8.8萬人占升學者的5成7那公立大學的是4成\n\n9\n00:02:54,264 --> 00:03:22,782\n那所以換句話說私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生那如果以上兩大點都涉及的所謂的教育資源的分配所以才要請問部長說那我們如何面對計職人才的流失那有什麼具體的策略那再請部長說明說我們為了追求教育的公共化那以達成說公立學校的學生數過半為目標這個目標你是否認同\n\n10\n00:03:23,939 --> 00:03:29,684\n謝謝委員因為確實在我們國內我們說在高中階段其實本來就有一個風軌那早期就讀技職體系包含武專因為我們多數的武專也都是比較以技職為主所以可以看得出來那個量是很清楚占比也高\n\n11\n00:03:47,419 --> 00:04:03,394\n當時的大學入學比例很窄所以反過來家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展那個是那個時空當然施玉琳教改我早上也跟很多委員報告當時的時空確實台灣是面對一個\n\n12\n00:04:08,058 --> 00:04:11,640\n教育是被嚴格的規範單一的標準所以才有410這麼多的團體出來希望教育鬆綁希望能夠適度的再增加孩子如果有機會升學包含教育的現代化等等的這些措施\n\n13\n00:04:28,590 --> 00:04:55,585\n那這樣的變革我們也應該說如果也剛好碰到台灣也其實在少子化在這個過程這30年當中的87年左右因為我一直在注意這個相關就發現整個聲援已經減少了那當然到目前為止看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中所以用現在去看因為當時的改制升格速度真的快了一點當時在10年不到時間\n\n14\n00:04:56,886 --> 00:04:57,086\n主持人林宜瑾\n\n15\n00:05:22,978 --> 00:05:22,998\n蔣麗芸議員\n\n16\n00:05:52,603 --> 00:05:52,643\n主席\n\n17\n00:06:09,826 --> 00:06:34,141\n所以剛剛部長我有提到就是說當然追求教育公共化是我們的很大的一個追求的目標那所以說如果說未來有沒有可能是公立的院校會大於私立的院校就承接更多的學生這樣的一個目標我說你這樣你認同嗎委員當然就讀公立那是公共化的一環\n\n18\n00:06:36,062 --> 00:06:41,724\n在措施上就讀私立學校比如像蔡總統脈總統這邊提出的政策主張把這個學費私校的學費目標也比較希望能夠讓孩子在選擇的過程當中\n\n19\n00:06:50,728 --> 00:06:51,028\n林宜瑾議員\n\n20\n00:07:08,871 --> 00:07:09,071\n主席\n\n21\n00:07:25,196 --> 00:07:32,323\n因為對於就讀功力還是多數學生會把它做為優先選擇所以從招生的注冊率等等來看功力還是比施力在多數來講還是高我想那個是一個未來的趨勢但是政府我也覺得不是用過度強力的方式說一定維持我要增加多數功力的\n\n22\n00:07:50,140 --> 00:08:16,273\n因為私校對台灣社會還是有它的貢獻只是說教學品質這一件事我認為是政府要把關的對就誠如部長所說其實少子化我覺得是一個衝擊可是也是一個轉機就是我們怎麼樣在高教能這個比起過去還要豐沛的那個情況之下重視值跟量的改革對那這樣子才能讓這整個教育資源能落實在孩子的身上那我們來談到私校退場問題那今天\n\n23\n00:08:19,535 --> 00:08:38,748\n有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個\n\n24\n00:08:40,089 --> 00:08:43,770\n我想跟你們報告當然大漢技術學院如果以我們目前的法規我想我們本來就是依法它在各方面並沒有出現被我們列為叫做專輔\n\n25\n00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:09,561\n教育部部長潘文忠\n\n26\n00:09:31,332 --> 00:09:31,692\n林宜瑾議員\n\n27\n00:09:51,024 --> 00:09:51,044\n好﹖\n\n28\n00:10:19,295 --> 00:10:19,315\n韓國瑜議員\n\n29\n00:10:43,832 --> 00:10:46,475\n請問部長有沒有盤整過全台的狀況我想這不是特例應該每個縣市都有這樣的\n\n30\n00:11:03,492 --> 00:11:22,361\n你所提的這個就是現在的整體的趨勢對那這如何因應我跟張老闆報告因為當然以目前我們都可以看到已出生的就從就是一二年年底就知道那個數據包含前一年是這些都是繼承已有的這些數字那也看得出這個波段\n\n31\n00:11:24,102 --> 00:11:24,122\n蘇貞昌議員\n\n32\n00:11:42,894 --> 00:11:42,934\n主席\n\n33\n00:12:01,498 --> 00:12:24,079\n所以這些都是我們要求地方政府要做這個考慮的時候你應該把這些都一併的要提出尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明這個我想還是一個最大的前提當然這個少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學大專校我們現在是很努力的跟大學校園公司力一起努力的來對於國際\n\n34\n00:12:26,061 --> 00:12:26,321\n謝謝部長的說明也謝謝昭偉謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t109\t趙薇好\n9242\t33848\t部長好部長要跟您進入今天的主題之前我先提一件事情就是台北大學有發生這個學校端的高層疑似介入這個學生會的選舉干涉這個學生自治組織運作的事件那學校端雖然否認可是對話截圖都有了那請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎因為台北大學最近的狀況確實特別多\n37429\t37850\t李卓人議員\n58033\t58914\t現在就是說因為臺北大學最近也發生蠻多事情的\n74702\t77283\t請教育部跟他們溝通一下另外我想針對今天的主題就是教改的問題我想教改\n104696\t130509\t這個30年來當然有它的局限跟缺點可是我不認為真的有像一些特定人士所說的就是說那麼的一無是處教育跟知識的普及不是壞事可是我們應當進一步去想說該如何在大學的量能充足之下也要兼顧教育資源的配置跟教育品質跟教育公共化的這個議題\n131750\t155772\t那我想1990年我們回顧一下1990年高職教育是主流那大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系那可是當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低那甚至在108學年度已經跌破了五成跟就讀一般的高中生出現的黃金交叉那另外我們在看\n156693\t173424\t根據我們這個應屆的畢業生的升學就業的蓋範調查來看110學年升學到私立大學的學生有這個8.8萬人占升學者的5成7那公立大學的是4成\n174264\t202782\t那所以換句話說私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生那如果以上兩大點都涉及的所謂的教育資源的分配所以才要請問部長說那我們如何面對計職人才的流失那有什麼具體的策略那再請部長說明說我們為了追求教育的公共化那以達成說公立學校的學生數過半為目標這個目標你是否認同\n203939\t209684\t謝謝委員因為確實在我們國內我們說在高中階段其實本來就有一個風軌那早期就讀技職體系包含武專因為我們多數的武專也都是比較以技職為主所以可以看得出來那個量是很清楚占比也高\n227419\t243394\t當時的大學入學比例很窄所以反過來家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展那個是那個時空當然施玉琳教改我早上也跟很多委員報告當時的時空確實台灣是面對一個\n248058\t251640\t教育是被嚴格的規範單一的標準所以才有410這麼多的團體出來希望教育鬆綁希望能夠適度的再增加孩子如果有機會升學包含教育的現代化等等的這些措施\n268590\t295585\t那這樣的變革我們也應該說如果也剛好碰到台灣也其實在少子化在這個過程這30年當中的87年左右因為我一直在注意這個相關就發現整個聲援已經減少了那當然到目前為止看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中所以用現在去看因為當時的改制升格速度真的快了一點當時在10年不到時間\n296886\t297086\t主持人 林宜瑾\n322978\t322998\t蔣麗芸議員\n352603\t352643\t主席\n369826\t394141\t所以剛剛部長我有提到就是說當然追求教育公共化是我們的很大的一個追求的目標那所以說如果說未來有沒有可能是公立的院校會大於私立的院校就承接更多的學生這樣的一個目標我說你這樣你認同嗎委員當然就讀公立那是公共化的一環\n396062\t401724\t在措施上就讀私立學校比如像蔡總統脈總統這邊提出的政策主張把這個學費私校的學費目標也比較希望能夠讓孩子在選擇的過程當中\n410728\t411028\t林宜瑾議員\n428871\t429071\t主席\n445196\t452323\t因為對於就讀功力還是多數學生會把它做為優先選擇所以從招生的注冊率等等來看功力還是比施力在多數來講還是高我想那個是一個未來的趨勢但是政府我也覺得不是用過度強力的方式說一定維持我要增加多數功力的\n470140\t496273\t因為私校對台灣社會還是有它的貢獻只是說教學品質這一件事我認為是政府要把關的對 就誠如部長所說其實少子化我覺得是一個衝擊可是也是一個轉機就是我們怎麼樣在高教能這個比起過去還要豐沛的那個情況之下重視值跟量的改革對 那這樣子才能讓這整個教育資源能落實在孩子的身上那我們來談到私校退場問題那今天\n499535\t518748\t有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個\n520089\t523770\t我想跟你們報告當然大漢技術學院如果以我們目前的法規我想我們本來就是依法它在各方面並沒有出現被我們列為叫做專輔\n548680\t549561\t教育部部長潘文忠\n571332\t571692\t林宜瑾議員\n591024\t591044\t好﹖\n619295\t619315\t韓國瑜議員\n643832\t646475\t請問部長有沒有盤整過全台的狀況我想這不是特例應該每個縣市都有這樣的\n663492\t682361\t你所提的這個就是現在的整體的趨勢對那這如何因應我跟張老闆報告因為當然以目前我們都可以看到已出生的就從就是一二年年底就知道那個數據包含前一年是這些都是繼承已有的這些數字那也看得出這個波段\n684102\t684122\t蘇貞昌議員\n702894\t702934\t主席\n721498\t744079\t所以這些都是我們要求地方政府要做這個考慮的時候你應該把這些都一併的要提出尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明這個我想還是一個最大的前提當然這個少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學大專校我們現在是很努力的跟大學校園公司力一起努力的來對於國際\n746061\t746321\t謝謝部長的說明 也謝謝昭偉 謝謝\n","txt":"趙薇好\n部長好部長要跟您進入今天的主題之前我先提一件事情就是台北大學有發生這個學校端的高層疑似介入這個學生會的選舉干涉這個學生自治組織運作的事件那學校端雖然否認可是對話截圖都有了那請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎因為台北大學最近的狀況確實特別多\n李卓人議員\n現在就是說因為臺北大學最近也發生蠻多事情的\n請教育部跟他們溝通一下另外我想針對今天的主題就是教改的問題我想教改\n這個30年來當然有它的局限跟缺點可是我不認為真的有像一些特定人士所說的就是說那麼的一無是處教育跟知識的普及不是壞事可是我們應當進一步去想說該如何在大學的量能充足之下也要兼顧教育資源的配置跟教育品質跟教育公共化的這個議題\n那我想1990年我們回顧一下1990年高職教育是主流那大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系那可是當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低那甚至在108學年度已經跌破了五成跟就讀一般的高中生出現的黃金交叉那另外我們在看\n根據我們這個應屆的畢業生的升學就業的蓋範調查來看110學年升學到私立大學的學生有這個8.8萬人占升學者的5成7那公立大學的是4成\n那所以換句話說私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生那如果以上兩大點都涉及的所謂的教育資源的分配所以才要請問部長說那我們如何面對計職人才的流失那有什麼具體的策略那再請部長說明說我們為了追求教育的公共化那以達成說公立學校的學生數過半為目標這個目標你是否認同\n謝謝委員因為確實在我們國內我們說在高中階段其實本來就有一個風軌那早期就讀技職體系包含武專因為我們多數的武專也都是比較以技職為主所以可以看得出來那個量是很清楚占比也高\n當時的大學入學比例很窄所以反過來家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展那個是那個時空當然施玉琳教改我早上也跟很多委員報告當時的時空確實台灣是面對一個\n教育是被嚴格的規範單一的標準所以才有410這麼多的團體出來希望教育鬆綁希望能夠適度的再增加孩子如果有機會升學包含教育的現代化等等的這些措施\n那這樣的變革我們也應該說如果也剛好碰到台灣也其實在少子化在這個過程這30年當中的87年左右因為我一直在注意這個相關就發現整個聲援已經減少了那當然到目前為止看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中所以用現在去看因為當時的改制升格速度真的快了一點當時在10年不到時間\n主持人 林宜瑾\n蔣麗芸議員\n主席\n所以剛剛部長我有提到就是說當然追求教育公共化是我們的很大的一個追求的目標那所以說如果說未來有沒有可能是公立的院校會大於私立的院校就承接更多的學生這樣的一個目標我說你這樣你認同嗎委員當然就讀公立那是公共化的一環\n在措施上就讀私立學校比如像蔡總統脈總統這邊提出的政策主張把這個學費私校的學費目標也比較希望能夠讓孩子在選擇的過程當中\n林宜瑾議員\n主席\n因為對於就讀功力還是多數學生會把它做為優先選擇所以從招生的注冊率等等來看功力還是比施力在多數來講還是高我想那個是一個未來的趨勢但是政府我也覺得不是用過度強力的方式說一定維持我要增加多數功力的\n因為私校對台灣社會還是有它的貢獻只是說教學品質這一件事我認為是政府要把關的對 就誠如部長所說其實少子化我覺得是一個衝擊可是也是一個轉機就是我們怎麼樣在高教能這個比起過去還要豐沛的那個情況之下重視值跟量的改革對 那這樣子才能讓這整個教育資源能落實在孩子的身上那我們來談到私校退場問題那今天\n有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個\n我想跟你們報告當然大漢技術學院如果以我們目前的法規我想我們本來就是依法它在各方面並沒有出現被我們列為叫做專輔\n教育部部長潘文忠\n林宜瑾議員\n好﹖\n韓國瑜議員\n請問部長有沒有盤整過全台的狀況我想這不是特例應該每個縣市都有這樣的\n你所提的這個就是現在的整體的趨勢對那這如何因應我跟張老闆報告因為當然以目前我們都可以看到已出生的就從就是一二年年底就知道那個數據包含前一年是這些都是繼承已有的這些數字那也看得出這個波段\n蘇貞昌議員\n主席\n所以這些都是我們要求地方政府要做這個考慮的時候你應該把這些都一併的要提出尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明這個我想還是一個最大的前提當然這個少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學大專校我們現在是很努力的跟大學校園公司力一起努力的來對於國際\n謝謝部長的說明 也謝謝昭偉 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.109\n趙薇好\n\n00:09.242 --> 00:33.848\n部長好部長要跟您進入今天的主題之前我先提一件事情就是台北大學有發生這個學校端的高層疑似介入這個學生會的選舉干涉這個學生自治組織運作的事件那學校端雖然否認可是對話截圖都有了那請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎因為台北大學最近的狀況確實特別多\n\n00:37.429 --> 00:37.850\n李卓人議員\n\n00:58.033 --> 00:58.914\n現在就是說因為臺北大學最近也發生蠻多事情的\n\n01:14.702 --> 01:17.283\n請教育部跟他們溝通一下另外我想針對今天的主題就是教改的問題我想教改\n\n01:44.696 --> 02:10.509\n這個30年來當然有它的局限跟缺點可是我不認為真的有像一些特定人士所說的就是說那麼的一無是處教育跟知識的普及不是壞事可是我們應當進一步去想說該如何在大學的量能充足之下也要兼顧教育資源的配置跟教育品質跟教育公共化的這個議題\n\n02:11.750 --> 02:35.772\n那我想1990年我們回顧一下1990年高職教育是主流那大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系那可是當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低那甚至在108學年度已經跌破了五成跟就讀一般的高中生出現的黃金交叉那另外我們在看\n\n02:36.693 --> 02:53.424\n根據我們這個應屆的畢業生的升學就業的蓋範調查來看110學年升學到私立大學的學生有這個8.8萬人占升學者的5成7那公立大學的是4成\n\n02:54.264 --> 03:22.782\n那所以換句話說私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生那如果以上兩大點都涉及的所謂的教育資源的分配所以才要請問部長說那我們如何面對計職人才的流失那有什麼具體的策略那再請部長說明說我們為了追求教育的公共化那以達成說公立學校的學生數過半為目標這個目標你是否認同\n\n03:23.939 --> 03:29.684\n謝謝委員因為確實在我們國內我們說在高中階段其實本來就有一個風軌那早期就讀技職體系包含武專因為我們多數的武專也都是比較以技職為主所以可以看得出來那個量是很清楚占比也高\n\n03:47.419 --> 04:03.394\n當時的大學入學比例很窄所以反過來家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展那個是那個時空當然施玉琳教改我早上也跟很多委員報告當時的時空確實台灣是面對一個\n\n04:08.058 --> 04:11.640\n教育是被嚴格的規範單一的標準所以才有410這麼多的團體出來希望教育鬆綁希望能夠適度的再增加孩子如果有機會升學包含教育的現代化等等的這些措施\n\n04:28.590 --> 04:55.585\n那這樣的變革我們也應該說如果也剛好碰到台灣也其實在少子化在這個過程這30年當中的87年左右因為我一直在注意這個相關就發現整個聲援已經減少了那當然到目前為止看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中所以用現在去看因為當時的改制升格速度真的快了一點當時在10年不到時間\n\n04:56.886 --> 04:57.086\n主持人林宜瑾\n\n05:22.978 --> 05:22.998\n蔣麗芸議員\n\n05:52.603 --> 05:52.643\n主席\n\n06:09.826 --> 06:34.141\n所以剛剛部長我有提到就是說當然追求教育公共化是我們的很大的一個追求的目標那所以說如果說未來有沒有可能是公立的院校會大於私立的院校就承接更多的學生這樣的一個目標我說你這樣你認同嗎委員當然就讀公立那是公共化的一環\n\n06:36.062 --> 06:41.724\n在措施上就讀私立學校比如像蔡總統脈總統這邊提出的政策主張把這個學費私校的學費目標也比較希望能夠讓孩子在選擇的過程當中\n\n06:50.728 --> 06:51.028\n林宜瑾議員\n\n07:08.871 --> 07:09.071\n主席\n\n07:25.196 --> 07:32.323\n因為對於就讀功力還是多數學生會把它做為優先選擇所以從招生的注冊率等等來看功力還是比施力在多數來講還是高我想那個是一個未來的趨勢但是政府我也覺得不是用過度強力的方式說一定維持我要增加多數功力的\n\n07:50.140 --> 08:16.273\n因為私校對台灣社會還是有它的貢獻只是說教學品質這一件事我認為是政府要把關的對就誠如部長所說其實少子化我覺得是一個衝擊可是也是一個轉機就是我們怎麼樣在高教能這個比起過去還要豐沛的那個情況之下重視值跟量的改革對那這樣子才能讓這整個教育資源能落實在孩子的身上那我們來談到私校退場問題那今天\n\n08:19.535 --> 08:38.748\n有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個\n\n08:40.089 --> 08:43.770\n我想跟你們報告當然大漢技術學院如果以我們目前的法規我想我們本來就是依法它在各方面並沒有出現被我們列為叫做專輔\n\n09:08.680 --> 09:09.561\n教育部部長潘文忠\n\n09:31.332 --> 09:31.692\n林宜瑾議員\n\n09:51.024 --> 09:51.044\n好﹖\n\n10:19.295 --> 10:19.315\n韓國瑜議員\n\n10:43.832 --> 10:46.475\n請問部長有沒有盤整過全台的狀況我想這不是特例應該每個縣市都有這樣的\n\n11:03.492 --> 11:22.361\n你所提的這個就是現在的整體的趨勢對那這如何因應我跟張老闆報告因為當然以目前我們都可以看到已出生的就從就是一二年年底就知道那個數據包含前一年是這些都是繼承已有的這些數字那也看得出這個波段\n\n11:24.102 --> 11:24.122\n蘇貞昌議員\n\n11:42.894 --> 11:42.934\n主席\n\n12:01.498 --> 12:24.079\n所以這些都是我們要求地方政府要做這個考慮的時候你應該把這些都一併的要提出尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明這個我想還是一個最大的前提當然這個少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學大專校我們現在是很努力的跟大學校園公司力一起努力的來對於國際\n\n12:26.061 --> 12:26.321\n謝謝部長的說明也謝謝昭偉謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.109,"text":"趙薇好"},{"start":9.242,"end":33.848,"text":"部長好部長要跟您進入今天的主題之前我先提一件事情就是台北大學有發生這個學校端的高層疑似介入這個學生會的選舉干涉這個學生自治組織運作的事件那學校端雖然否認可是對話截圖都有了那請問教育部有掌握狀況嗎因為台北大學最近的狀況確實特別多"},{"start":37.429,"end":37.85,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":58.033,"end":58.914,"text":"現在就是說因為臺北大學最近也發生蠻多事情的"},{"start":74.702,"end":77.283,"text":"請教育部跟他們溝通一下另外我想針對今天的主題就是教改的問題我想教改"},{"start":104.696,"end":130.509,"text":"這個30年來當然有它的局限跟缺點可是我不認為真的有像一些特定人士所說的就是說那麼的一無是處教育跟知識的普及不是壞事可是我們應當進一步去想說該如何在大學的量能充足之下也要兼顧教育資源的配置跟教育品質跟教育公共化的這個議題"},{"start":131.75,"end":155.772,"text":"那我想1990年我們回顧一下1990年高職教育是主流那大部分的國中生畢業之後進入技職體系那可是當然近年來高職的學生占比明顯降低那甚至在108學年度已經跌破了五成跟就讀一般的高中生出現的黃金交叉那另外我們在看"},{"start":156.693,"end":173.424,"text":"根據我們這個應屆的畢業生的升學就業的蓋範調查來看110學年升學到私立大學的學生有這個8.8萬人占升學者的5成7那公立大學的是4成"},{"start":174.264,"end":202.782,"text":"那所以換句話說私立大學比起公立大學承接了更多的學生那如果以上兩大點都涉及的所謂的教育資源的分配所以才要請問部長說那我們如何面對計職人才的流失那有什麼具體的策略那再請部長說明說我們為了追求教育的公共化那以達成說公立學校的學生數過半為目標這個目標你是否認同"},{"start":203.939,"end":209.684,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實在我們國內我們說在高中階段其實本來就有一個風軌那早期就讀技職體系包含武專因為我們多數的武專也都是比較以技職為主所以可以看得出來那個量是很清楚占比也高"},{"start":227.419,"end":243.394,"text":"當時的大學入學比例很窄所以反過來家長的想法各方面大概認為說孩子有一技之長也可以來做發展那個是那個時空當然施玉琳教改我早上也跟很多委員報告當時的時空確實台灣是面對一個"},{"start":248.058,"end":251.64,"text":"教育是被嚴格的規範單一的標準所以才有410這麼多的團體出來希望教育鬆綁希望能夠適度的再增加孩子如果有機會升學包含教育的現代化等等的這些措施"},{"start":268.59,"end":295.585,"text":"那這樣的變革我們也應該說如果也剛好碰到台灣也其實在少子化在這個過程這30年當中的87年左右因為我一直在注意這個相關就發現整個聲援已經減少了那當然到目前為止看起來這個趨勢還是一直在下降當中所以用現在去看因為當時的改制升格速度真的快了一點當時在10年不到時間"},{"start":296.886,"end":297.086,"text":"主持人 林宜瑾"},{"start":322.978,"end":322.998,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":352.603,"end":352.643,"text":"主席"},{"start":369.826,"end":394.141,"text":"所以剛剛部長我有提到就是說當然追求教育公共化是我們的很大的一個追求的目標那所以說如果說未來有沒有可能是公立的院校會大於私立的院校就承接更多的學生這樣的一個目標我說你這樣你認同嗎委員當然就讀公立那是公共化的一環"},{"start":396.062,"end":401.724,"text":"在措施上就讀私立學校比如像蔡總統脈總統這邊提出的政策主張把這個學費私校的學費目標也比較希望能夠讓孩子在選擇的過程當中"},{"start":410.728,"end":411.028,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":428.871,"end":429.071,"text":"主席"},{"start":445.196,"end":452.323,"text":"因為對於就讀功力還是多數學生會把它做為優先選擇所以從招生的注冊率等等來看功力還是比施力在多數來講還是高我想那個是一個未來的趨勢但是政府我也覺得不是用過度強力的方式說一定維持我要增加多數功力的"},{"start":470.14,"end":496.273,"text":"因為私校對台灣社會還是有它的貢獻只是說教學品質這一件事我認為是政府要把關的對 就誠如部長所說其實少子化我覺得是一個衝擊可是也是一個轉機就是我們怎麼樣在高教能這個比起過去還要豐沛的那個情況之下重視值跟量的改革對 那這樣子才能讓這整個教育資源能落實在孩子的身上那我們來談到私校退場問題那今天"},{"start":499.535,"end":518.748,"text":"有那個大漢這個誇臉的大漢技術學院在那個我們立法院門口施聲來做陳抗那他們今天就是為了要揭露這個學校董事會怎麼樣掏空校產那他們擅自宣布他們要停招停辦沒有依照所謂的我們私校退場條例的這個"},{"start":520.089,"end":523.77,"text":"我想跟你們報告當然大漢技術學院如果以我們目前的法規我想我們本來就是依法它在各方面並沒有出現被我們列為叫做專輔"},{"start":548.68,"end":549.561,"text":"教育部部長潘文忠"},{"start":571.332,"end":571.692,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":591.024,"end":591.044,"text":"好﹖"},{"start":619.295,"end":619.315,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":643.832,"end":646.475,"text":"請問部長有沒有盤整過全台的狀況我想這不是特例應該每個縣市都有這樣的"},{"start":663.492,"end":682.361,"text":"你所提的這個就是現在的整體的趨勢對那這如何因應我跟張老闆報告因為當然以目前我們都可以看到已出生的就從就是一二年年底就知道那個數據包含前一年是這些都是繼承已有的這些數字那也看得出這個波段"},{"start":684.102,"end":684.122,"text":"蘇貞昌議員"},{"start":702.894,"end":702.934,"text":"主席"},{"start":721.498,"end":744.079,"text":"所以這些都是我們要求地方政府要做這個考慮的時候你應該把這些都一併的要提出尤其要跟社區來做溝通說明這個我想還是一個最大的前提當然這個少子化的趨勢在義務教育階段比較不能像大學大專校我們現在是很努力的跟大學校園公司力一起努力的來對於國際"},{"start":746.061,"end":746.321,"text":"謝謝部長的說明 也謝謝昭偉 謝謝"}]}}}}