{"id":151279,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151279","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627b9df01fe0ecca72c068d0b55d8f96a4ec5dab72e655c1c9481d98ccfcd6d1fbb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"11:31:29 - 11:44:09","影片長度":"00:12:40","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「潛艦國造建案沿革及目前進度」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-13"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":760,"end_time":"2024-04-17T11:44:09+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T11:31:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（11時31分）謝謝主席。有請邱部長，謝謝。"],["主席（馬委員文君）：請邱部長。"],["邱部長國正：沈委員好！"],["沈委員伯洋：邱部長好！今天雖然是潛艦相關的一些問題要問，但是在這個前面我想有一個建議，因為我們前面做了這個的機密報告，到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢，都還是用公開質詢的方式，因為我們在看這個報告的同時，有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密，哪一個部分不是機密，所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難，所以這個機密與否的標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候讓我們知道一下，這是一個小小的建議。","第二個，今天一直提到所謂2,800億的問題，我無意去討論這個數字到底是怎麼出來等等之類的，不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是因為一直以來都在討論這個到底有沒有舞弊、為什麼會有那麼多金錢、為什麼又上漲等等之類的，我覺得那有很多細節，其實對我們來講，我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼，因為一旦有好的公式，能夠讓大家知道，然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準，也包含之後假設我們軍方的採購人員有專門在追這種成本、物料、市場這種物價的波動，他就可以說我的公式是這一個，我是這樣在追的，我因為這樣就估算了什麼數字，這一個對民眾的說明可能會更好，所以這是第二個建議。"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：好。因為時間因素，所以我就跳過第一個，這個今天很多人問了，就是這一個3+2+2的生產計畫是否生變，我就不多問，我這邊想問的就是現在海鯤號已經準備好的話，我們人力的來源及訓練的規劃到底是什麼樣子，第一個當然就是剛剛也一直提到的留營率及編現比，我現在不想說，因為3月7日的業報裡面就有提到，我們現在整體的留營率大概78.5%，我現在想說，在這邊不一定需要一個確切的數字，這個是沒有意義的，但是我們的留營率及編現比這幾年波動的狀況大概是如何？"],["邱部長國正：跟委員報告，誠如剛剛委員有提到，有很多機密或者非機密很難界定，事實上，我們剛剛既然在這個機密會議當中報告，跟那個有關的一樣可以問，但是我們的答復可能會跟委員報告，等我們瞭解一下，我們私下派人去跟您做說明，這也是一個界定的方法，要把它界定很清楚，真的不容易，各有各的看法，這是第一個。","第二個，就是有關人員編現比的問題，以及將來海鯤號還有其他潛艦一旦出來以後，人員是怎麼來調配，我跟委員報告，任何一個建案不光只建一個東西而已，它同步建人員來源、人員訓練、訓練期程，以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題，通通納在建案當中要做一個敘明，所以我們在這一方面有來源的規劃，到我這個地方，我一個整體的報告，我只跟委員報告一下，這個在建案當中都會列進去，要詳細部分的話，我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答復，或者到委員那裡去做……"],["沈委員伯洋：感謝，是否可以簡單的答復一下？謝謝。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我們現在全軍的留營率大概都是在百分之七十六到七十八之間，這個我們也持續在做，把留營率提升。我們潛艦部隊官兵的訓練，其實潛戰隊是一直努力在做的，每年都招考了合格的軍士官，他們也有一些岸置的支援部隊，他自己有個訓練流路，這個部分，我覺得我們是一直積極主動的態度，目前的人力我們逐步跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選、訓員跟相關的教育訓練，包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售，都是有相關的流入，軍士官都有，這個我們也持續來努力，詳細的資料會提供必要的跟委員說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為我們在看大概幾年前海軍自己的學術月刊，一直提到潛艦兵力不足的問題，雖然現在是一定會去做編制，畢竟海鯤號都已經準備好了，但會不會這邊編了以後，結果導致哪邊的人又變更少，整體的問題對我們來講其實蠻困擾的地方在於，現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態，畢竟剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式不太行，就只能節流，開源要進來的人不足，所以到底要怎麼樣去改善？我覺得當然有兩個問題，第一個是開源，第二個我想提到的是人為什麼會離開這件事。前面也有幾個委員一直提到，像這次也有自殺的案件，當然不是發生在這個方面，自殺的案件他還不是離開，是選擇自殺。但是對我們來講，現在比較重要的事情是，比如說，現在我有聽到他們的陳情是，希望大家在離開的時候能夠把聯絡方式給家人，讓家人能夠掌握行蹤。但是像這種方式還是有點治標不治本，因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力，很多還是在於他們的業務太多了，像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化，以及內部長官交辦的事項他們覺得不合理。所以在這一方面，如果一直沒有辦法做到的話，就會變成大家一直會想要離開，這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決。"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：剛剛王定宇委員也有提到，馬文君委員剛剛也有提到一部分，到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決，這可能是很重要的，因為人力夠的話，我們接下來才可以去談訓練。"],["邱部長國正：對，的確剛剛委員點到，還有委員講，開源節流，這個人我捏不出來，沒有就沒有，當然招募這些我要繼續做，就是開源，但我所謂節流，不是把人減少，是把人力要做的工作減少，事實上，我剛剛也跟幾位委員報告，這個工作以前一直在做，但我們現在檢討起來，我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不力，因為事實上是我們中高級幹部把他疏忽掉了，可能我們中高級幹部當初年輕也是這樣過來的，所以他覺得這沒什麼，他也這樣過來了。在這一方面，我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走，要點到、看到，跟指導到，這才是一個務實的作法，我們這個工作會持續來做，因為它都是沒有停止的，今天這個教會了，明天新來的又來了，所以我也希望把它變成一個傳承、變成一個習慣，就是簡單扼要。坦白跟委員報告，因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶可能有所不同，各有各的胃口，但我們持續往這方向努力，我要求我們幹部，這三年多來我做的都是讓他們知道，簡單、簡單、簡單，但很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成。"],["沈委員伯洋：感謝部長，這是組織文化的一個很大的問題。","接下來這個比較小，這個是監察院的報告，我一直覺得監察院的報告有很高的重要性，各位可能也知道，最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼，也是在講我們立法委員的調查權，其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做，但監察院有時候做調查會有一個問題，就在於它調查完之後後續到底如何，我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤，所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的殿堂上面很適合去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤。這一個是講到射擊相關的訓練，我在想會不會也是同一個問題，就是跟前面業務排擠有關，當你的業務不夠精簡的時候，就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間。因為這是2023年10月提出的，大概過了半年，不知道這件事情有沒有一些相關的改善方式跟報告能夠被提出來？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，剛剛委員講可能業務太多，以致於這些東西會延誤，不是講沒有關聯，但是有些許的關聯，這個問題出在哪裡呢？就是幹部久了以後就不用去督管，我們發覺很多軍中的工作，做了一半，到最後沒有了，什麼原因也沒有人管了。所以我一再強調，我們為什麼要把一個編組職掌表弄清楚、節點管制畫出來，經常要檢討。像剛才委員講的這個案子我們也要追，我要追的很簡單，海軍當初的案子是誰在處理，處理過程我要看到，要看到你怎麼處理，是每個月追、每一季追，或者根本就沒有追，這就是關鍵，沒有他做不到的，三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練，原因不是他忙到沒有空，現在國防部都在按照這個週期打靶，很簡單，禮拜一、禮拜二、禮拜五選一天，實在沒空，禮拜六見，一個禮拜三天也就弄完了。我想我比照的方法不是這麼硬邦邦，但這個方法是一定要有人管控，只要有人聞問，他就會走，如果沒有人聞問，不管再冠冕堂皇，到最後一樣就停止了，就被人詬病。委員，我們要努力，在這幾年當中，我們在這一方面雖然很努力，可我不可否認的還有一些不夠周延的地方，所以我想給幹部也是一個警惕，大家共同來努力。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，後續針對這件事情怎麼改善，是否可以再來我辦公室說明？因為我覺得這還蠻重要的。"],["邱部長國正：好。"],["沈委員伯洋：最後因為只剩一點點時間，關於自產跟進口的訓練我可能下一次再問，我想問一下通訊相關的，因為我現在在看中國對潛艦指揮通信的一些研究，當然我有時候會認為他們是有點講大話，但是無論如何，這一次成都的電子科技大學有說，針對磁性、平移聲學的射頻、光/熱聲，還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的技術，去做跟潛艦相關通訊的溝通，因為成都電子科技大學雖然隸屬於教育部，但它最主要是被列入了美國政府的實體清單，它其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點。","他們發展這樣的一個技術，對我們來講的確是重要的，知己知彼嘛！所以我想問一件事情，我們常講作戰靠指揮，指揮靠通信，第一個，目前我們通信的加密程度是如何？這個如果有不方便回答的，我們可以之後再說；第二個，我覺得比較重要的是，潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊，這是一定的，問題在於說，如果它在沒辦法接受指令跟資訊的時候，它的Protocol是什麼？有沒有已經建立好了，畢竟現在我們的潛艦海鯤號都已經ready了，所以關於第二個，它接收命令以及沒有在接收命令的那個Protocol是長什麼樣子？還有跟盟友，我們剛剛講的是縱向的，那麼橫向的跟其他的盟友相關的通訊協定是長什麼樣子，有沒有在積極的做準備？我比較想知道這方面的問題。"],["邱部長國正：我初步跟委員報告，我們國軍做任何事情跟計畫，一定有主計畫還有一個附帶的，這代表他考慮的周延不周延，細節部分當然我沒辦法說明，但我也請海軍同仁或資通電部門到委員那邊去跟您詳細做個報告。假使連這個都還沒有準備，連這個Protocol都還沒有，那講起來有點離譜，可能做的有點不夠周延，但最起碼概念要有，一個主計畫一定有很多子計畫來支應這個主計畫的推動，這個我們軍中任何一個層級單位、主官應該會想到這一點。"],["沈委員伯洋：剛剛那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追蹤，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["邱部長國正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請洪申翰委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-13","speakers":["馬文君","林楚茵","黃仁","陳永康","羅美玲","王定宇","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","賴士葆","李柏毅","洪孟楷","羅智強","林憶君","王鴻薇","邱志偉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「潛艦國造建案沿革及目前進度」，並備質詢（含秘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23:30:53","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 23:33:24","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151279 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-05-31 23:33:24","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「潛艦國造建案沿革及目前進度」，並備質詢。）\n發言委員：沈伯洋'"},{"time":"2024-05-31 23:33:45","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-31 23:33:45","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 0.089, \"end\": 0.351, \"text\": \"請邱國正報告\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 0.089, \"end\": 0.19, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 0.19, \"end\": 0.331, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 0.331, \"end\": 0.351, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 10.74, \"end\": 34.453, \"text\": \"沈委員好好 沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密\", 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 737.89, \"end\": 737.91, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 737.91, \"end\": 737.95, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 737.95, \"end\": 737.97, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,351\n請邱國正報告\n\n2\n00:00:10,740 --> 00:00:34,453\n沈委員好好沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密\n\n3\n00:00:34,873 --> 00:00:59,575\n所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難所以呢這個機密與否的這個標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候可以讓我們知道一下這是一個小小的建議那第二個就是剛剛因為今天一直提到這個所謂2800億的問題那我無意去討論說這個數字到底是怎麼出來的等等之類的不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是說因為現在有這個\n\n4\n00:01:01,056 --> 00:01:23,554\n一直以來就在討論說這個到底有沒有舞弊啊為什麼會有那麼多金錢啊為什麼又上漲啊等等之類的我覺得很多細節啦那其實對我們來講我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼因為一旦有好的公式能夠讓大家知道然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準也包含比如說我們之後比如說我們假設假設我們在軍方的採購人員有專門是專門在追這種成本物料市場的這種物價的一個\n\n5\n00:01:30,580 --> 00:01:30,860\n沈伯洋\n\n6\n00:02:00,565 --> 00:02:23,662\n第一個當然就是因為剛剛也一直提到這個流盈率跟邊線比那我現在不想說因為3月7號的夜報裡面就有提到說我們現在整體的流盈率大概78.5%那我現在想說在這邊我們不一定需要一個確切的數字這個是沒有意義的但是就是我們這個流盈率跟邊線比這幾年它的這個波動的狀況大概是如何\n\n7\n00:02:24,980 --> 00:02:48,046\n我跟委員報告陳吳剛委員有提到有很多機密或者非機密很難界定事實上我們剛剛竟然在這個機密的會議當中報告的那跟那個有關的一樣可以問但是我們的答覆會可能跟委員報告了解一下我們私下派人去跟您做說明這也是一個界定的一個方法那把它界定很清楚真的\n\n8\n00:02:49,434 --> 00:02:49,554\n主席\n\n9\n00:03:08,154 --> 00:03:37,160\n他見到同步這些人員來源人員訓練訓練期程以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題通通納在建案當中要做一個序名所以我們在這一方面他有來源的一個規劃到我這個地方我一個整體的報告的話我只跟委員報告講這個在建案當中都會有列進去要講詳細部分的話我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答覆或者到委員會去做\n\n10\n00:03:37,580 --> 00:04:04,641\n好,感謝。是否可以簡單的答封一下?謝謝。報言,就是我們現在全軍的我們的流勻率大概都是在76%到78%之間。那這個我們也持續在做,把這個流勻率能夠來做提升。那我們潛艦部隊的官兵的訓練,其實他一直,潛戰隊是一直努力在做的。他也都每年都招考了合格的軍士官。那他們也有一些暗示的支援部隊,他自己有個訓練流入。\n\n11\n00:04:06,342 --> 00:04:26,439\n這個部分我覺得我們積極主動太推那目前的人力我們在逐步的會跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選訓員跟相關的教育訓練包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售都是有相關的整個的流量軍事關隊這個我們持續來努力詳細資料會提供必要的跟委員說明謝謝\n\n12\n00:04:27,642 --> 00:04:55,953\n那這個之後在因為這個我們在看這一個大概在幾年前這一個也是海軍這個學術自己的月刊就一直提到說這個潛艦是兵力不足的問題那雖然現在是一定會去做編制這是因為畢竟這個海關號都已經準備好了但會不會說這邊編了以後結果又導致哪邊的人又變更少那整體的問題對我們來講其實還是會蠻困擾的地方是在於說現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態因為畢竟我們現在剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式\n\n13\n00:04:56,493 --> 00:04:56,653\n沈伯洋\n\n14\n00:05:24,099 --> 00:05:41,930\n現在我有聽到他們的陳情是說希望大家在離開的時候能夠把這個聯絡方式能夠給家人然後讓家人能夠掌握行蹤但是像這種方式有點還是治標不治本因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力很多還是在於說他們的業務太多了\n\n15\n00:05:42,210 --> 00:06:08,357\n像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化然後以及說呢在這個內部的這個長官交辦的事下他可能覺得不合理所以在這一方面呢如果一直沒有辦法做到的話就會變成說大家一直會想要離開嘛這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決所以是希望說能夠剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到那那個馬文俊委員剛剛也有提到一部分就是說到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決這可能是很重要的因為人力夠的話我們接下來才可以去談訓練嘛\n\n16\n00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:29,094\n對,這的確,剛剛委員點到,還有學委員講,開源節流,我講這個人,我捏不出來,沒有就沒有,但當招募這東西我要繼續做,就開源。但節流,我所謂節流,不只要把人減少,把人力要做的工作把它減少。\n\n17\n00:06:29,674 --> 00:06:45,051\n事實上我剛跟局委員報告這工作以前早期一直在做但我們現在檢討起來我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不利因為事實上是我們中高級幹部你把他疏忽掉了可能我們中高級幹部他當初年輕有這樣過來的\n\n18\n00:06:46,332 --> 00:07:12,016\n他已經這樣過來了所以我就講在這一方面我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走要點到跟看到要指導到這才是一個務實的做法我們這工作會持續來做因為它都是沒有停止的你今天這個交會了明天這個新來又來了所以我講我也想把它變成一個傳承變成一個習慣\n\n19\n00:07:15,037 --> 00:07:39,929\n簡單而要坦白跟委員報告因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶有所不同各有各的胃口我們持續往這方面努力我要求我們幹部這三年多來我做的都讓他們知道簡單簡單簡單但是很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成\n\n20\n00:07:41,730 --> 00:07:54,385\n感謝部長,這是組織文化的一個很大的問題接下來這個是一個,這個比較小這個就是說因為監察院的報告我一直覺得監察院報告有很高的重要性就是因為各位可能也知道最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼\n\n21\n00:07:55,586 --> 00:08:15,047\n每次來講說我們立法委員的調查權那其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做但監察院有時候做調查有時候會有一個問題就在於說他調查完之後呢後續到底如何我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤啦所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的這個殿堂上面是很適合來去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤\n\n22\n00:08:16,208 --> 00:08:36,323\n這個他是講到就是說這個涉及相關的訓練但我在想會不會也是同一個問題就是跟前面業務排擠有關就是說當你的業務不夠精簡的時候他就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間那不知道這件事情因為這是2023年10月大概半年那有沒有一些相關提出的一個改善的方式跟報告能夠被提出來\n\n23\n00:08:36,863 --> 00:08:54,305\n我跟委員報告,剛才委員講說可能業務太多,也是因為延誤,不是講沒有關聯,但是有些許的關聯,這問題出在哪裡呢?就是幹部久了以後就沒有去督管,我們發覺很多軍中工作,做了一半都沒有了,什麼原因?\n\n24\n00:08:55,126 --> 00:08:55,366\n沈伯洋\n\n25\n00:09:12,908 --> 00:09:34,990\n你怎麼處理每個月追每季追或者根本就沒有追這就是關鍵沒有他做不到的三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練這原因啊不是他忙到沒有空我在國防部都在按照週期打靶我很簡單禮拜一禮拜二禮拜五你選一天實在沒空禮拜六見\n\n26\n00:09:36,417 --> 00:09:55,491\n一個禮拜也要三天也就弄完了我講我比照這個方法不是那麼硬邦邦但這個方法就一定要有人管控只要有人問問他就會走他如果沒有人問問你力量再冠冕堂皇到最後一樣就停止了停止就變詬病了\n\n27\n00:09:57,772 --> 00:09:58,092\n最後因為只剩一點點時間\n\n28\n00:10:23,377 --> 00:10:23,638\n﹚沈伯洋\n\n29\n00:10:38,921 --> 00:11:04,619\n這次這個電子課成都的這個電子科技大學他有說他針對這個磁性平行升學的射頻光熱的這個還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的一個技術去做這樣的跟潛艦相關的通訊的溝通那因為成都電子科技大學他是雖然隸屬於教育部但他其實最主要還已經被列入了這個美國政府的實體清單他其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點\n\n30\n00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:26,859\n所以這個對我們來講他們發展這樣的一個技術對我們來講的確是重要的知己知彼所以這邊我想問的一個事情是在於說我們常講作戰靠指揮指揮高通信那目前我們通信第一個它的加密程度是如何那這個如果有不方便回答的我們可以之後再說第二個我覺得比較重要的是潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊這是一定的\n\n31\n00:11:27,999 --> 00:11:56,224\n問題在於說如果他在沒辦法接受這個指令跟資訊的時候他的那個protocol是什麼有沒有已經建立好了因為畢竟我們潛艦現在就已經海關號都已經ready了嘛所以關於第二個這個他接受命令以及沒有在接受命令的那個protocol是長什麼樣子還有跟盟友就是跟其他的我們剛剛講的是縱向的橫向的跟其他的盟友通訊相關的一個協定是長什麼樣子有沒有在積極的做準備我比較想知道這方面的問題\n\n32\n00:11:56,844 --> 00:12:15,889\n我跟委員報告,我們國軍做任何事情的計劃,它一定有主計劃還有一個附帶的。這代表它考慮周延不周延。這細節部分我沒辦法說明,但我也請海軍同仁或直通電部門到委員會去跟您詳細做個報告。\n\n33\n00:12:16,869 --> 00:12:17,970\n希望剛才那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追踪謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t351\t請邱國正報告\n10740\t34453\t沈委員好好 沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密\n34873\t59575\t所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難所以呢這個機密與否的這個標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候可以讓我們知道一下這是一個小小的建議那第二個就是剛剛因為今天一直提到這個所謂2800億的問題那我無意去討論說這個數字到底是怎麼出來的等等之類的不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是說因為現在有這個\n61056\t83554\t一直以來就在討論說這個到底有沒有舞弊啊為什麼會有那麼多金錢啊為什麼又上漲啊等等之類的我覺得很多細節啦那其實對我們來講我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼因為一旦有好的公式能夠讓大家知道然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準也包含比如說我們之後比如說我們假設假設我們在軍方的採購人員有專門是專門在追這種成本物料市場的這種物價的一個\n90580\t90860\t沈伯洋\n120565\t143662\t第一個當然就是因為剛剛也一直提到這個流盈率跟邊線比那我現在不想說因為3月7號的夜報裡面就有提到說我們現在整體的流盈率大概78.5%那我現在想說在這邊我們不一定需要一個確切的數字這個是沒有意義的但是就是我們這個流盈率跟邊線比這幾年它的這個波動的狀況大概是如何\n144980\t168046\t我跟委員報告陳吳剛委員有提到有很多機密或者非機密很難界定事實上我們剛剛竟然在這個機密的會議當中報告的那跟那個有關的一樣可以問但是我們的答覆會可能跟委員報告了解一下我們私下派人去跟您做說明這也是一個界定的一個方法那把它界定很清楚真的\n169434\t169554\t主席\n188154\t217160\t他見到同步這些人員來源人員訓練訓練期程以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題通通納在建案當中要做一個序名所以我們在這一方面他有來源的一個規劃到我這個地方我一個整體的報告的話我只跟委員報告講這個在建案當中都會有列進去要講詳細部分的話我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答覆或者到委員會去做\n217580\t244641\t好,感謝。是否可以簡單的答封一下?謝謝。報言,就是我們現在全軍的我們的流勻率大概都是在76%到78%之間。那這個我們也持續在做,把這個流勻率能夠來做提升。那我們潛艦部隊的官兵的訓練,其實他一直,潛戰隊是一直努力在做的。他也都每年都招考了合格的軍士官。那他們也有一些暗示的支援部隊,他自己有個訓練流入。\n246342\t266439\t這個部分我覺得我們積極主動太推那目前的人力我們在逐步的會跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選訓員跟相關的教育訓練包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售都是有相關的整個的流量軍事關隊這個我們持續來努力詳細資料會提供必要的跟委員說明謝謝\n267642\t295953\t那這個之後在因為這個我們在看這一個大概在幾年前這一個也是海軍這個學術自己的月刊就一直提到說這個潛艦是兵力不足的問題那雖然現在是一定會去做編制這是因為畢竟這個海關號都已經準備好了但會不會說這邊編了以後結果又導致哪邊的人又變更少那整體的問題對我們來講其實還是會蠻困擾的地方是在於說現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態因為畢竟我們現在剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式\n296493\t296653\t沈伯洋\n324099\t341930\t現在我有聽到他們的陳情是說希望大家在離開的時候能夠把這個聯絡方式能夠給家人然後讓家人能夠掌握行蹤但是像這種方式有點還是治標不治本因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力很多還是在於說他們的業務太多了\n342210\t368357\t像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化然後以及說呢在這個內部的這個長官交辦的事下他可能覺得不合理所以在這一方面呢如果一直沒有辦法做到的話就會變成說大家一直會想要離開嘛這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決所以是希望說能夠剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到那那個馬文俊委員剛剛也有提到一部分就是說到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決這可能是很重要的因為人力夠的話我們接下來才可以去談訓練嘛\n370996\t389094\t對,這的確,剛剛委員點到,還有學委員講,開源節流,我講這個人,我捏不出來,沒有就沒有,但當招募這東西我要繼續做,就開源。但節流,我所謂節流,不只要把人減少,把人力要做的工作把它減少。\n389674\t405051\t事實上我剛跟局委員報告這工作以前早期一直在做但我們現在檢討起來我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不利因為事實上是我們中高級幹部你把他疏忽掉了可能我們中高級幹部他當初年輕有這樣過來的\n406332\t432016\t他已經這樣過來了所以我就講在這一方面我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走要點到跟看到要指導到這才是一個務實的做法我們這工作會持續來做因為它都是沒有停止的你今天這個交會了明天這個新來又來了所以我講我也想把它變成一個傳承變成一個習慣\n435037\t459929\t簡單而要坦白跟委員報告因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶有所不同各有各的胃口我們持續往這方面努力我要求我們幹部這三年多來我做的都讓他們知道簡單簡單簡單但是很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成\n461730\t474385\t感謝部長,這是組織文化的一個很大的問題接下來這個是一個,這個比較小這個就是說因為監察院的報告我一直覺得監察院報告有很高的重要性就是因為各位可能也知道最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼\n475586\t495047\t每次來講說我們立法委員的調查權那其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做但監察院有時候做調查有時候會有一個問題就在於說他調查完之後呢後續到底如何我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤啦所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的這個殿堂上面是很適合來去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤\n496208\t516323\t這個他是講到就是說這個涉及相關的訓練但我在想會不會也是同一個問題就是跟前面業務排擠有關就是說當你的業務不夠精簡的時候他就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間那不知道這件事情因為這是2023年10月大概半年那有沒有一些相關提出的一個改善的方式跟報告能夠被提出來\n516863\t534305\t我跟委員報告,剛才委員講說可能業務太多,也是因為延誤,不是講沒有關聯,但是有些許的關聯,這問題出在哪裡呢?就是幹部久了以後就沒有去督管,我們發覺很多軍中工作,做了一半都沒有了,什麼原因?\n535126\t535366\t沈伯洋\n552908\t574990\t你怎麼處理每個月追每季追或者根本就沒有追這就是關鍵沒有他做不到的三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練這原因啊不是他忙到沒有空我在國防部都在按照週期打靶我很簡單禮拜一禮拜二禮拜五你選一天實在沒空禮拜六見\n576417\t595491\t一個禮拜也要三天也就弄完了我講我比照這個方法不是那麼硬邦邦但這個方法就一定要有人管控只要有人問問他就會走他如果沒有人問問你力量再冠冕堂皇到最後一樣就停止了停止就變詬病了\n597772\t598092\t最後因為只剩一點點時間\n623377\t623638\t﹚沈伯洋\n638921\t664619\t這次這個電子課成都的這個電子科技大學他有說他針對這個磁性平行升學的射頻光熱的這個還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的一個技術去做這樣的跟潛艦相關的通訊的溝通那因為成都電子科技大學他是雖然隸屬於教育部但他其實最主要還已經被列入了這個美國政府的實體清單他其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點\n665399\t686859\t所以這個對我們來講他們發展這樣的一個技術對我們來講的確是重要的知己知彼所以這邊我想問的一個事情是在於說我們常講作戰靠指揮指揮高通信那目前我們通信第一個它的加密程度是如何那這個如果有不方便回答的我們可以之後再說第二個我覺得比較重要的是潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊這是一定的\n687999\t716224\t問題在於說如果他在沒辦法接受這個指令跟資訊的時候他的那個protocol是什麼有沒有已經建立好了因為畢竟我們潛艦現在就已經海關號都已經ready了嘛所以關於第二個這個他接受命令以及沒有在接受命令的那個protocol是長什麼樣子還有跟盟友就是跟其他的我們剛剛講的是縱向的橫向的跟其他的盟友通訊相關的一個協定是長什麼樣子有沒有在積極的做準備我比較想知道這方面的問題\n716844\t735889\t我跟委員報告,我們國軍做任何事情的計劃,它一定有主計劃還有一個附帶的。這代表它考慮周延不周延。這細節部分我沒辦法說明,但我也請海軍同仁或直通電部門到委員會去跟您詳細做個報告。\n736869\t737970\t希望剛才那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追踪謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"請邱國正報告\n沈委員好好 沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密\n所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難所以呢這個機密與否的這個標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候可以讓我們知道一下這是一個小小的建議那第二個就是剛剛因為今天一直提到這個所謂2800億的問題那我無意去討論說這個數字到底是怎麼出來的等等之類的不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是說因為現在有這個\n一直以來就在討論說這個到底有沒有舞弊啊為什麼會有那麼多金錢啊為什麼又上漲啊等等之類的我覺得很多細節啦那其實對我們來講我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼因為一旦有好的公式能夠讓大家知道然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準也包含比如說我們之後比如說我們假設假設我們在軍方的採購人員有專門是專門在追這種成本物料市場的這種物價的一個\n沈伯洋\n第一個當然就是因為剛剛也一直提到這個流盈率跟邊線比那我現在不想說因為3月7號的夜報裡面就有提到說我們現在整體的流盈率大概78.5%那我現在想說在這邊我們不一定需要一個確切的數字這個是沒有意義的但是就是我們這個流盈率跟邊線比這幾年它的這個波動的狀況大概是如何\n我跟委員報告陳吳剛委員有提到有很多機密或者非機密很難界定事實上我們剛剛竟然在這個機密的會議當中報告的那跟那個有關的一樣可以問但是我們的答覆會可能跟委員報告了解一下我們私下派人去跟您做說明這也是一個界定的一個方法那把它界定很清楚真的\n主席\n他見到同步這些人員來源人員訓練訓練期程以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題通通納在建案當中要做一個序名所以我們在這一方面他有來源的一個規劃到我這個地方我一個整體的報告的話我只跟委員報告講這個在建案當中都會有列進去要講詳細部分的話我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答覆或者到委員會去做\n好,感謝。是否可以簡單的答封一下?謝謝。報言,就是我們現在全軍的我們的流勻率大概都是在76%到78%之間。那這個我們也持續在做,把這個流勻率能夠來做提升。那我們潛艦部隊的官兵的訓練,其實他一直,潛戰隊是一直努力在做的。他也都每年都招考了合格的軍士官。那他們也有一些暗示的支援部隊,他自己有個訓練流入。\n這個部分我覺得我們積極主動太推那目前的人力我們在逐步的會跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選訓員跟相關的教育訓練包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售都是有相關的整個的流量軍事關隊這個我們持續來努力詳細資料會提供必要的跟委員說明謝謝\n那這個之後在因為這個我們在看這一個大概在幾年前這一個也是海軍這個學術自己的月刊就一直提到說這個潛艦是兵力不足的問題那雖然現在是一定會去做編制這是因為畢竟這個海關號都已經準備好了但會不會說這邊編了以後結果又導致哪邊的人又變更少那整體的問題對我們來講其實還是會蠻困擾的地方是在於說現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態因為畢竟我們現在剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式\n沈伯洋\n現在我有聽到他們的陳情是說希望大家在離開的時候能夠把這個聯絡方式能夠給家人然後讓家人能夠掌握行蹤但是像這種方式有點還是治標不治本因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力很多還是在於說他們的業務太多了\n像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化然後以及說呢在這個內部的這個長官交辦的事下他可能覺得不合理所以在這一方面呢如果一直沒有辦法做到的話就會變成說大家一直會想要離開嘛這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決所以是希望說能夠剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到那那個馬文俊委員剛剛也有提到一部分就是說到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決這可能是很重要的因為人力夠的話我們接下來才可以去談訓練嘛\n對,這的確,剛剛委員點到,還有學委員講,開源節流,我講這個人,我捏不出來,沒有就沒有,但當招募這東西我要繼續做,就開源。但節流,我所謂節流,不只要把人減少,把人力要做的工作把它減少。\n事實上我剛跟局委員報告這工作以前早期一直在做但我們現在檢討起來我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不利因為事實上是我們中高級幹部你把他疏忽掉了可能我們中高級幹部他當初年輕有這樣過來的\n他已經這樣過來了所以我就講在這一方面我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走要點到跟看到要指導到這才是一個務實的做法我們這工作會持續來做因為它都是沒有停止的你今天這個交會了明天這個新來又來了所以我講我也想把它變成一個傳承變成一個習慣\n簡單而要坦白跟委員報告因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶有所不同各有各的胃口我們持續往這方面努力我要求我們幹部這三年多來我做的都讓他們知道簡單簡單簡單但是很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成\n感謝部長,這是組織文化的一個很大的問題接下來這個是一個,這個比較小這個就是說因為監察院的報告我一直覺得監察院報告有很高的重要性就是因為各位可能也知道最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼\n每次來講說我們立法委員的調查權那其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做但監察院有時候做調查有時候會有一個問題就在於說他調查完之後呢後續到底如何我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤啦所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的這個殿堂上面是很適合來去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤\n這個他是講到就是說這個涉及相關的訓練但我在想會不會也是同一個問題就是跟前面業務排擠有關就是說當你的業務不夠精簡的時候他就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間那不知道這件事情因為這是2023年10月大概半年那有沒有一些相關提出的一個改善的方式跟報告能夠被提出來\n我跟委員報告,剛才委員講說可能業務太多,也是因為延誤,不是講沒有關聯,但是有些許的關聯,這問題出在哪裡呢?就是幹部久了以後就沒有去督管,我們發覺很多軍中工作,做了一半都沒有了,什麼原因?\n沈伯洋\n你怎麼處理每個月追每季追或者根本就沒有追這就是關鍵沒有他做不到的三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練這原因啊不是他忙到沒有空我在國防部都在按照週期打靶我很簡單禮拜一禮拜二禮拜五你選一天實在沒空禮拜六見\n一個禮拜也要三天也就弄完了我講我比照這個方法不是那麼硬邦邦但這個方法就一定要有人管控只要有人問問他就會走他如果沒有人問問你力量再冠冕堂皇到最後一樣就停止了停止就變詬病了\n最後因為只剩一點點時間\n﹚沈伯洋\n這次這個電子課成都的這個電子科技大學他有說他針對這個磁性平行升學的射頻光熱的這個還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的一個技術去做這樣的跟潛艦相關的通訊的溝通那因為成都電子科技大學他是雖然隸屬於教育部但他其實最主要還已經被列入了這個美國政府的實體清單他其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點\n所以這個對我們來講他們發展這樣的一個技術對我們來講的確是重要的知己知彼所以這邊我想問的一個事情是在於說我們常講作戰靠指揮指揮高通信那目前我們通信第一個它的加密程度是如何那這個如果有不方便回答的我們可以之後再說第二個我覺得比較重要的是潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊這是一定的\n問題在於說如果他在沒辦法接受這個指令跟資訊的時候他的那個protocol是什麼有沒有已經建立好了因為畢竟我們潛艦現在就已經海關號都已經ready了嘛所以關於第二個這個他接受命令以及沒有在接受命令的那個protocol是長什麼樣子還有跟盟友就是跟其他的我們剛剛講的是縱向的橫向的跟其他的盟友通訊相關的一個協定是長什麼樣子有沒有在積極的做準備我比較想知道這方面的問題\n我跟委員報告,我們國軍做任何事情的計劃,它一定有主計劃還有一個附帶的。這代表它考慮周延不周延。這細節部分我沒辦法說明,但我也請海軍同仁或直通電部門到委員會去跟您詳細做個報告。\n希望剛才那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追踪謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.351\n請邱國正報告\n\n00:10.740 --> 00:34.453\n沈委員好好沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密\n\n00:34.873 --> 00:59.575\n所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難所以呢這個機密與否的這個標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候可以讓我們知道一下這是一個小小的建議那第二個就是剛剛因為今天一直提到這個所謂2800億的問題那我無意去討論說這個數字到底是怎麼出來的等等之類的不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是說因為現在有這個\n\n01:01.056 --> 01:23.554\n一直以來就在討論說這個到底有沒有舞弊啊為什麼會有那麼多金錢啊為什麼又上漲啊等等之類的我覺得很多細節啦那其實對我們來講我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼因為一旦有好的公式能夠讓大家知道然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準也包含比如說我們之後比如說我們假設假設我們在軍方的採購人員有專門是專門在追這種成本物料市場的這種物價的一個\n\n01:30.580 --> 01:30.860\n沈伯洋\n\n02:00.565 --> 02:23.662\n第一個當然就是因為剛剛也一直提到這個流盈率跟邊線比那我現在不想說因為3月7號的夜報裡面就有提到說我們現在整體的流盈率大概78.5%那我現在想說在這邊我們不一定需要一個確切的數字這個是沒有意義的但是就是我們這個流盈率跟邊線比這幾年它的這個波動的狀況大概是如何\n\n02:24.980 --> 02:48.046\n我跟委員報告陳吳剛委員有提到有很多機密或者非機密很難界定事實上我們剛剛竟然在這個機密的會議當中報告的那跟那個有關的一樣可以問但是我們的答覆會可能跟委員報告了解一下我們私下派人去跟您做說明這也是一個界定的一個方法那把它界定很清楚真的\n\n02:49.434 --> 02:49.554\n主席\n\n03:08.154 --> 03:37.160\n他見到同步這些人員來源人員訓練訓練期程以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題通通納在建案當中要做一個序名所以我們在這一方面他有來源的一個規劃到我這個地方我一個整體的報告的話我只跟委員報告講這個在建案當中都會有列進去要講詳細部分的話我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答覆或者到委員會去做\n\n03:37.580 --> 04:04.641\n好,感謝。是否可以簡單的答封一下?謝謝。報言,就是我們現在全軍的我們的流勻率大概都是在76%到78%之間。那這個我們也持續在做,把這個流勻率能夠來做提升。那我們潛艦部隊的官兵的訓練,其實他一直,潛戰隊是一直努力在做的。他也都每年都招考了合格的軍士官。那他們也有一些暗示的支援部隊,他自己有個訓練流入。\n\n04:06.342 --> 04:26.439\n這個部分我覺得我們積極主動太推那目前的人力我們在逐步的會跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選訓員跟相關的教育訓練包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售都是有相關的整個的流量軍事關隊這個我們持續來努力詳細資料會提供必要的跟委員說明謝謝\n\n04:27.642 --> 04:55.953\n那這個之後在因為這個我們在看這一個大概在幾年前這一個也是海軍這個學術自己的月刊就一直提到說這個潛艦是兵力不足的問題那雖然現在是一定會去做編制這是因為畢竟這個海關號都已經準備好了但會不會說這邊編了以後結果又導致哪邊的人又變更少那整體的問題對我們來講其實還是會蠻困擾的地方是在於說現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態因為畢竟我們現在剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式\n\n04:56.493 --> 04:56.653\n沈伯洋\n\n05:24.099 --> 05:41.930\n現在我有聽到他們的陳情是說希望大家在離開的時候能夠把這個聯絡方式能夠給家人然後讓家人能夠掌握行蹤但是像這種方式有點還是治標不治本因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力很多還是在於說他們的業務太多了\n\n05:42.210 --> 06:08.357\n像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化然後以及說呢在這個內部的這個長官交辦的事下他可能覺得不合理所以在這一方面呢如果一直沒有辦法做到的話就會變成說大家一直會想要離開嘛這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決所以是希望說能夠剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到那那個馬文俊委員剛剛也有提到一部分就是說到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決這可能是很重要的因為人力夠的話我們接下來才可以去談訓練嘛\n\n06:10.996 --> 06:29.094\n對,這的確,剛剛委員點到,還有學委員講,開源節流,我講這個人,我捏不出來,沒有就沒有,但當招募這東西我要繼續做,就開源。但節流,我所謂節流,不只要把人減少,把人力要做的工作把它減少。\n\n06:29.674 --> 06:45.051\n事實上我剛跟局委員報告這工作以前早期一直在做但我們現在檢討起來我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不利因為事實上是我們中高級幹部你把他疏忽掉了可能我們中高級幹部他當初年輕有這樣過來的\n\n06:46.332 --> 07:12.016\n他已經這樣過來了所以我就講在這一方面我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走要點到跟看到要指導到這才是一個務實的做法我們這工作會持續來做因為它都是沒有停止的你今天這個交會了明天這個新來又來了所以我講我也想把它變成一個傳承變成一個習慣\n\n07:15.037 --> 07:39.929\n簡單而要坦白跟委員報告因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶有所不同各有各的胃口我們持續往這方面努力我要求我們幹部這三年多來我做的都讓他們知道簡單簡單簡單但是很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成\n\n07:41.730 --> 07:54.385\n感謝部長,這是組織文化的一個很大的問題接下來這個是一個,這個比較小這個就是說因為監察院的報告我一直覺得監察院報告有很高的重要性就是因為各位可能也知道最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼\n\n07:55.586 --> 08:15.047\n每次來講說我們立法委員的調查權那其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做但監察院有時候做調查有時候會有一個問題就在於說他調查完之後呢後續到底如何我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤啦所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的這個殿堂上面是很適合來去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤\n\n08:16.208 --> 08:36.323\n這個他是講到就是說這個涉及相關的訓練但我在想會不會也是同一個問題就是跟前面業務排擠有關就是說當你的業務不夠精簡的時候他就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間那不知道這件事情因為這是2023年10月大概半年那有沒有一些相關提出的一個改善的方式跟報告能夠被提出來\n\n08:36.863 --> 08:54.305\n我跟委員報告,剛才委員講說可能業務太多,也是因為延誤,不是講沒有關聯,但是有些許的關聯,這問題出在哪裡呢?就是幹部久了以後就沒有去督管,我們發覺很多軍中工作,做了一半都沒有了,什麼原因?\n\n08:55.126 --> 08:55.366\n沈伯洋\n\n09:12.908 --> 09:34.990\n你怎麼處理每個月追每季追或者根本就沒有追這就是關鍵沒有他做不到的三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練這原因啊不是他忙到沒有空我在國防部都在按照週期打靶我很簡單禮拜一禮拜二禮拜五你選一天實在沒空禮拜六見\n\n09:36.417 --> 09:55.491\n一個禮拜也要三天也就弄完了我講我比照這個方法不是那麼硬邦邦但這個方法就一定要有人管控只要有人問問他就會走他如果沒有人問問你力量再冠冕堂皇到最後一樣就停止了停止就變詬病了\n\n09:57.772 --> 09:58.092\n最後因為只剩一點點時間\n\n10:23.377 --> 10:23.638\n﹚沈伯洋\n\n10:38.921 --> 11:04.619\n這次這個電子課成都的這個電子科技大學他有說他針對這個磁性平行升學的射頻光熱的這個還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的一個技術去做這樣的跟潛艦相關的通訊的溝通那因為成都電子科技大學他是雖然隸屬於教育部但他其實最主要還已經被列入了這個美國政府的實體清單他其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點\n\n11:05.399 --> 11:26.859\n所以這個對我們來講他們發展這樣的一個技術對我們來講的確是重要的知己知彼所以這邊我想問的一個事情是在於說我們常講作戰靠指揮指揮高通信那目前我們通信第一個它的加密程度是如何那這個如果有不方便回答的我們可以之後再說第二個我覺得比較重要的是潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊這是一定的\n\n11:27.999 --> 11:56.224\n問題在於說如果他在沒辦法接受這個指令跟資訊的時候他的那個protocol是什麼有沒有已經建立好了因為畢竟我們潛艦現在就已經海關號都已經ready了嘛所以關於第二個這個他接受命令以及沒有在接受命令的那個protocol是長什麼樣子還有跟盟友就是跟其他的我們剛剛講的是縱向的橫向的跟其他的盟友通訊相關的一個協定是長什麼樣子有沒有在積極的做準備我比較想知道這方面的問題\n\n11:56.844 --> 12:15.889\n我跟委員報告,我們國軍做任何事情的計劃,它一定有主計劃還有一個附帶的。這代表它考慮周延不周延。這細節部分我沒辦法說明,但我也請海軍同仁或直通電部門到委員會去跟您詳細做個報告。\n\n12:16.869 --> 12:17.970\n希望剛才那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追踪謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.351,"text":"請邱國正報告"},{"start":10.74,"end":34.453,"text":"沈委員好好 沈部長好那今天雖然是潛艦的這個相關的一些問題要問那但是在這個前面我想因為我們前面做了這個機密的報告但是到最後大家並沒有用機密質詢大家都還是用公開質詢的方式所以呢就是不知道未來就是因為我們在看這個報告的同時有時候會不太清楚到底哪一個部分是機密哪一個部分不是機密"},{"start":34.873,"end":59.575,"text":"所以在接下來詢問的時候當然就會變得非常的困難所以呢這個機密與否的這個標準不知道是否可以在下一次有這種相關機密報告的時候可以讓我們知道一下這是一個小小的建議那第二個就是剛剛因為今天一直提到這個所謂2800億的問題那我無意去討論說這個數字到底是怎麼出來的等等之類的不過我們比較想要知道的事情就是說因為現在有這個"},{"start":61.056,"end":83.554,"text":"一直以來就在討論說這個到底有沒有舞弊啊為什麼會有那麼多金錢啊為什麼又上漲啊等等之類的我覺得很多細節啦那其實對我們來講我覺得最重要的事情反而是這種計算的公式是什麼因為一旦有好的公式能夠讓大家知道然後說我們是依照什麼樣的公式去估算標準也包含比如說我們之後比如說我們假設假設我們在軍方的採購人員有專門是專門在追這種成本物料市場的這種物價的一個"},{"start":90.58,"end":90.86,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":120.565,"end":143.662,"text":"第一個當然就是因為剛剛也一直提到這個流盈率跟邊線比那我現在不想說因為3月7號的夜報裡面就有提到說我們現在整體的流盈率大概78.5%那我現在想說在這邊我們不一定需要一個確切的數字這個是沒有意義的但是就是我們這個流盈率跟邊線比這幾年它的這個波動的狀況大概是如何"},{"start":144.98,"end":168.046,"text":"我跟委員報告陳吳剛委員有提到有很多機密或者非機密很難界定事實上我們剛剛竟然在這個機密的會議當中報告的那跟那個有關的一樣可以問但是我們的答覆會可能跟委員報告了解一下我們私下派人去跟您做說明這也是一個界定的一個方法那把它界定很清楚真的"},{"start":169.434,"end":169.554,"text":"主席"},{"start":188.154,"end":217.16,"text":"他見到同步這些人員來源人員訓練訓練期程以至於到剛才很多委員關切的後勤維保的問題通通納在建案當中要做一個序名所以我們在這一方面他有來源的一個規劃到我這個地方我一個整體的報告的話我只跟委員報告講這個在建案當中都會有列進去要講詳細部分的話我想一樣可以請海軍立刻做一個簡單答覆或者到委員會去做"},{"start":217.58,"end":244.641,"text":"好,感謝。是否可以簡單的答封一下?謝謝。報言,就是我們現在全軍的我們的流勻率大概都是在76%到78%之間。那這個我們也持續在做,把這個流勻率能夠來做提升。那我們潛艦部隊的官兵的訓練,其實他一直,潛戰隊是一直努力在做的。他也都每年都招考了合格的軍士官。那他們也有一些暗示的支援部隊,他自己有個訓練流入。"},{"start":246.342,"end":266.439,"text":"這個部分我覺得我們積極主動太推那目前的人力我們在逐步的會跟著後續的兵力調整也在做擴大的選訓員跟相關的教育訓練包含這些訓練跟對外到國外去軍售都是有相關的整個的流量軍事關隊這個我們持續來努力詳細資料會提供必要的跟委員說明謝謝"},{"start":267.642,"end":295.953,"text":"那這個之後在因為這個我們在看這一個大概在幾年前這一個也是海軍這個學術自己的月刊就一直提到說這個潛艦是兵力不足的問題那雖然現在是一定會去做編制這是因為畢竟這個海關號都已經準備好了但會不會說這邊編了以後結果又導致哪邊的人又變更少那整體的問題對我們來講其實還是會蠻困擾的地方是在於說現在整體有點像是均貧的狀態因為畢竟我們現在剛剛部長有提到我們開源的方式"},{"start":296.493,"end":296.653,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":324.099,"end":341.93,"text":"現在我有聽到他們的陳情是說希望大家在離開的時候能夠把這個聯絡方式能夠給家人然後讓家人能夠掌握行蹤但是像這種方式有點還是治標不治本因為他們之所以會有那麼多的壓力很多還是在於說他們的業務太多了"},{"start":342.21,"end":368.357,"text":"像剛剛有提到這個業務到底能不能夠簡化然後以及說呢在這個內部的這個長官交辦的事下他可能覺得不合理所以在這一方面呢如果一直沒有辦法做到的話就會變成說大家一直會想要離開嘛這件事情我覺得應該是要被解決所以是希望說能夠剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到那那個馬文俊委員剛剛也有提到一部分就是說到底我們要怎麼具體把這件事情解決這可能是很重要的因為人力夠的話我們接下來才可以去談訓練嘛"},{"start":370.996,"end":389.094,"text":"對,這的確,剛剛委員點到,還有學委員講,開源節流,我講這個人,我捏不出來,沒有就沒有,但當招募這東西我要繼續做,就開源。但節流,我所謂節流,不只要把人減少,把人力要做的工作把它減少。"},{"start":389.674,"end":405.051,"text":"事實上我剛跟局委員報告這工作以前早期一直在做但我們現在檢討起來我不怪我們年輕幹部推動不利因為事實上是我們中高級幹部你把他疏忽掉了可能我們中高級幹部他當初年輕有這樣過來的"},{"start":406.332,"end":432.016,"text":"他已經這樣過來了所以我就講在這一方面我要求我們中高級幹部要多放下身段往下走要點到跟看到要指導到這才是一個務實的做法我們這工作會持續來做因為它都是沒有停止的你今天這個交會了明天這個新來又來了所以我講我也想把它變成一個傳承變成一個習慣"},{"start":435.037,"end":459.929,"text":"簡單而要坦白跟委員報告因為當初很多幹部他受的薰陶有所不同各有各的胃口我們持續往這方面努力我要求我們幹部這三年多來我做的都讓他們知道簡單簡單簡單但是很遺憾沒有辦法如期如質的完成"},{"start":461.73,"end":474.385,"text":"感謝部長,這是組織文化的一個很大的問題接下來這個是一個,這個比較小這個就是說因為監察院的報告我一直覺得監察院報告有很高的重要性就是因為各位可能也知道最近國會改革被喊得如火如荼"},{"start":475.586,"end":495.047,"text":"每次來講說我們立法委員的調查權那其實我們很多的調查都是監察院在做但監察院有時候做調查有時候會有一個問題就在於說他調查完之後呢後續到底如何我們實在是沒有辦法去做追蹤啦所以我覺得現在在這個質詢的這個殿堂上面是很適合來去做這種監察院的調查後續的追蹤"},{"start":496.208,"end":516.323,"text":"這個他是講到就是說這個涉及相關的訓練但我在想會不會也是同一個問題就是跟前面業務排擠有關就是說當你的業務不夠精簡的時候他就排擠到他需要去訓練的時間那不知道這件事情因為這是2023年10月大概半年那有沒有一些相關提出的一個改善的方式跟報告能夠被提出來"},{"start":516.863,"end":534.305,"text":"我跟委員報告,剛才委員講說可能業務太多,也是因為延誤,不是講沒有關聯,但是有些許的關聯,這問題出在哪裡呢?就是幹部久了以後就沒有去督管,我們發覺很多軍中工作,做了一半都沒有了,什麼原因?"},{"start":535.126,"end":535.366,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":552.908,"end":574.99,"text":"你怎麼處理每個月追每季追或者根本就沒有追這就是關鍵沒有他做不到的三年沒有按照週期來做射擊訓練這原因啊不是他忙到沒有空我在國防部都在按照週期打靶我很簡單禮拜一禮拜二禮拜五你選一天實在沒空禮拜六見"},{"start":576.417,"end":595.491,"text":"一個禮拜也要三天也就弄完了我講我比照這個方法不是那麼硬邦邦但這個方法就一定要有人管控只要有人問問他就會走他如果沒有人問問你力量再冠冕堂皇到最後一樣就停止了停止就變詬病了"},{"start":597.772,"end":598.092,"text":"最後因為只剩一點點時間"},{"start":623.377,"end":623.638,"text":"﹚沈伯洋"},{"start":638.921,"end":664.619,"text":"這次這個電子課成都的這個電子科技大學他有說他針對這個磁性平行升學的射頻光熱的這個還有中微子跟量子通訊等等的一個技術去做這樣的跟潛艦相關的通訊的溝通那因為成都電子科技大學他是雖然隸屬於教育部但他其實最主要還已經被列入了這個美國政府的實體清單他其實就是解放軍非常重要的一個駭客招募的地點"},{"start":665.399,"end":686.859,"text":"所以這個對我們來講他們發展這樣的一個技術對我們來講的確是重要的知己知彼所以這邊我想問的一個事情是在於說我們常講作戰靠指揮指揮高通信那目前我們通信第一個它的加密程度是如何那這個如果有不方便回答的我們可以之後再說第二個我覺得比較重要的是潛艦本來就比較難即時接收資訊這是一定的"},{"start":687.999,"end":716.224,"text":"問題在於說如果他在沒辦法接受這個指令跟資訊的時候他的那個protocol是什麼有沒有已經建立好了因為畢竟我們潛艦現在就已經海關號都已經ready了嘛所以關於第二個這個他接受命令以及沒有在接受命令的那個protocol是長什麼樣子還有跟盟友就是跟其他的我們剛剛講的是縱向的橫向的跟其他的盟友通訊相關的一個協定是長什麼樣子有沒有在積極的做準備我比較想知道這方面的問題"},{"start":716.844,"end":735.889,"text":"我跟委員報告,我們國軍做任何事情的計劃,它一定有主計劃還有一個附帶的。這代表它考慮周延不周延。這細節部分我沒辦法說明,但我也請海軍同仁或直通電部門到委員會去跟您詳細做個報告。"},{"start":736.869,"end":737.97,"text":"希望剛才那兩件事情我們就來做後續的追踪謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}}}}