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\"end\": 656.672, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 656.672, \"end\": 656.972, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 656.972, \"end\": 657.152, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 657.152, \"end\": 657.352, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 657.352, \"end\": 657.432, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 657.432, \"end\": 657.452, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"潘\", \"start\": 658.632, \"end\": 658.772, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 658.772, \"end\": 658.792, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,958 --> 00:00:05,980\n潘文忠列席\n\n2\n00:00:12,182 --> 00:00:21,445\n部長午安了我想今天大家關心的問題就是少子女化的浪潮大專院校如何因應首先我要先幫花蓮大漢技術學院的師生跟部長請命我知道剛剛林一金委員有問這題因為我早上有跟他們一起開記者會我覺得這個個案非常的重要因為部長應該記得當時我們在修私校退場條例的時候我個人是主張同步修私校\n\n3\n00:00:42,073 --> 00:00:42,213\n大漢技術學院\n\n4\n00:01:02,887 --> 00:01:03,127\n委員會主席\n\n5\n00:01:21,581 --> 00:01:42,706\n剛剛我們民間的團體有很多的指責擔心董事會在財產方面可能有蠻多的議題那會淪為私人那教育部這邊是不是可以依照私校法你有的法律工具嚴格審查他相關的退場的計畫好嗎包含私生權益還有財產的公共性如何保障\n\n6\n00:01:43,146 --> 00:01:43,186\n主動退場\n\n7\n00:02:01,510 --> 00:02:03,351\n教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒\n\n8\n00:02:24,824 --> 00:02:25,385\n請教育部依法嚴格審查確保師生的權益\n\n9\n00:02:40,288 --> 00:02:58,393\n宣布退場的那一次校務會議的資料最後一個臨時提案就是內容是維護學生權益教學品質讓學生受教權受到保障提清審議那內容講的就是因為花蓮很多都是花蓮的學生地方那麼大你要他離開花蓮去別的學校這是嚴重傷害學生權益這個是\n\n10\n00:03:00,994 --> 00:03:12,750\n出席27位同意19票反對0票等於是全場無意通過的可是現在的很多措施已經違反校務會議的決議了所以這個就大學法來講也是有問題的好不好那請部長嚴格幫忙監督我也會後續加\n\n11\n00:03:19,458 --> 00:03:34,357\n再來相關的問題因為今天我們討論了很多教改大學退場的部分一直有講到這個410教改那跟部長報告一下我當年有參加410是學生的代表之一\n\n12\n00:03:35,378 --> 00:04:03,524\n所以非常了解當時的四大訴求也非常了解教改前學校的困境我們這個世代是在有體罰的情況下像部長講的小學一班60幾人我們到現在同學會的時候同學還在分享當年看到老師體罰學生留下來的床上我們連目睹兒床上都還在所以這裡面有非常多的教育的改革是進步的\n\n13\n00:04:04,404 --> 00:04:26,104\n可是現在大家爭執的這一點就是人人就廣設高中大學是不是目前的病源然後大家在執著說是不是要李遠哲負責我是不知道我沒有研究過這題誰該負責可是我覺得有一個歷史事實很重要因為當年的領導者是黃武雄教授\n\n14\n00:04:27,064 --> 00:04:37,228\n黃文雄是410的精神跟理念的領導者那我找到他一篇文章想跟大家分享他在2021年在這個關鍵評論上他怎麼講他說廣設大學410民間教改的訴求是台灣應在5到10年內讓年輕人進大學的機會提到美國的54%甚至達到加拿大60%以上\n\n15\n00:04:51,674 --> 00:05:08,880\n但我擔心當時的政府目光短淺那是1994年會便宜行事後面我暫時不念把高職專校升格為大學結果大幅降低大學的品質下一段1996年吳京上任教育部長提出第二國道的構想\n\n16\n00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:29,753\n果然要大量升格公私立技職專校雖然教改人士到教育部前抗議要求好好廣設公立大學並指出公私立學校的不同定位跳過一段我找時任教育立委王拓去吳部長陳述利害可惜吳部長堅持如故\n\n17\n00:05:30,513 --> 00:05:46,300\n後面第二國道一旦通車這些升格的技術學校與大學變成了龐大利益集團偉大不掉他們的存在阻撓了日後廣設新的有一定有水準的公立大學的任何提議\n\n18\n00:05:47,180 --> 00:06:15,307\n這是黃武雄當時C0教育的領導者他認為是出在當時不是出在廣設高中跟大學是出在當時升格的方式那我想我不知道潘部長怎麼評定這件事情因為每一任部長都有責任那您做的是過去8年所以我比較想問的事情是我們現在去歷史究責應該是交給歷史學家去做研究的我想問的是說\n\n19\n00:06:16,977 --> 00:06:41,333\n到現在為止至少我們看到當年的那種便宜形式的升格方式那的確面臨到少子化的過程中我們面臨到現在退場的問題那民團人士那當然剛剛也有人講過就是未來8年他們認為至少40所大專院校會退場那事實是不是這樣子我不知道但是我看到我們林萬億政委他回應說\n\n20\n00:06:43,695 --> 00:07:03,316\n私校退場問題不會再惡化然後他提出的解方是各校朝精緻化教學發展請問潘部長是不是認同說這是解方呢就是那個林萬億政委講的精緻化教學的方向不會就是可以解決\n\n21\n00:07:03,917 --> 00:07:07,701\n跟委員報告．確實現在生源．我們說少子化後的生源．這些都是客觀的數據．以目前臺灣大學的大專校院的規模．這個確實一定會出現．招生各方面的限制．\n\n22\n00:07:21,036 --> 00:07:33,522\n大學後續的發展其實教育部也一直都比較希望因為這個是現在可以再努力的部分那這一段為什麼我們一直說大學可以做如林萬一政委講的這是一種形態之一\n\n23\n00:07:36,603 --> 00:07:37,484\n部長,忍疫時間的緣故容許我先打斷您\n\n24\n00:07:58,304 --> 00:08:14,112\n這裡至少今天的報告我比較沒有看到精緻化教學方案那這邊我要提醒您一個精緻化教學方案就是到底如何精緻化山簡科系整合的問題因為我們現在看到了幾個例子包含輔大\n\n25\n00:08:15,273 --> 00:08:15,293\n范雲\n\n26\n00:08:46,713 --> 00:08:57,537\n各位看一下我們台灣人文社科的學生比例真的太高了嗎?我們如果跟OECD比我們台灣的人文社科學生比例是22%OECD平均是29.4%韓國是28.6%日本是32%這些國家表現不好嗎?我們如果跟美國比我們又遠遠不如美國他是37.6%\n\n27\n00:09:12,181 --> 00:09:18,885\n所以如果從一個國家的不管是經濟發展來講的話這些都是OECD經濟發展不錯的我們的人設學生人數是遠低於他們我們增加都來不及了我們要認平這些據說以財務為考量就是刪減這些他認為不賺錢的細索嗎我覺得這件事情如果違反國家的公共利益的話教育部就應該介入那部長怎麼回應這個部分\n\n28\n00:09:41,157 --> 00:10:09,419\n其實在教育的過程本來就有個人跟整個國家社會的這樣的需求的考慮那教育本身也不是說通通把學生往哪一軌去發展所以在這樣的過程教育部為什麼也是一些委員這邊提對於某些科系我們當學校發生甚至是稀有的稀少的科系會有一些教育部的政策跟資源上的協助包含之前委員關心像性平所等等的\n\n29\n00:10:09,879 --> 00:10:30,445\n這個是國家教育部的重要政策所以在這種概念裡面我覺得這是我們在政策上的一個基礎那這個部分是不是教育部給我一個報告好嗎如何不要讓各校因為自己的財務考量刪掉他認為不會賺錢的科系符合國家的方向這部分是不是可以給我們辦公室一個書面報告好嗎\n\n30\n00:10:32,085 --> 00:10:57,452\n最後我也為剛剛有委員講過的我覺得召開高教我覺得也許不需要是全國教育但是高教一定要召開高教國是會議我去年3月質詢的時候部長說會去研議後來沒有下文部長可能就是下次再問您就是過去的成果您可不可以把這個當作交接清單交接給我們新部長的\n\n31\n00:10:58,632 --> 00:10:58,792\n謝謝潘部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4958\t5980\t潘文忠列席\n12182\t21445\t部長午安了我想今天大家關心的問題就是少子女化的浪潮大專院校如何因應首先我要先幫花蓮大漢技術學院的師生跟部長請命我知道剛剛林一金委員有問這題因為我早上有跟他們一起開記者會我覺得這個個案非常的重要因為部長應該記得當時我們在修私校退場條例的時候我個人是主張同步修私校\n42073\t42213\t大漢技術學院\n62887\t63127\t委員會主席\n81581\t102706\t剛剛我們民間的團體有很多的指責擔心董事會在財產方面可能有蠻多的議題那會淪為私人那教育部這邊是不是可以依照私校法你有的法律工具嚴格審查他相關的退場的計畫好嗎包含私生權益還有財產的公共性如何保障\n103146\t103186\t主動退場\n121510\t123351\t教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒\n144824\t145385\t請教育部依法嚴格審查確保師生的權益\n160288\t178393\t宣布退場的那一次校務會議的資料最後一個臨時提案就是內容是維護學生權益教學品質讓學生受教權受到保障提清審議那內容講的就是因為花蓮很多都是花蓮的學生地方那麼大你要他離開花蓮去別的學校這是嚴重傷害學生權益這個是\n180994\t192750\t出席27位同意19票反對0票等於是全場無意通過的可是現在的很多措施已經違反校務會議的決議了所以這個就大學法來講也是有問題的好不好那請部長嚴格幫忙監督我也會後續加\n199458\t214357\t再來相關的問題因為今天我們討論了很多教改大學退場的部分一直有講到這個410教改那跟部長報告一下我當年有參加410是學生的代表之一\n215378\t243524\t所以非常了解當時的四大訴求也非常了解教改前學校的困境我們這個世代是在有體罰的情況下像部長講的小學一班60幾人我們到現在同學會的時候同學還在分享當年看到老師體罰學生留下來的床上我們連目睹兒床上都還在所以這裡面有非常多的教育的改革是進步的\n244404\t266104\t可是現在大家爭執的這一點就是人人就廣設高中大學是不是目前的病源然後大家在執著說是不是要李遠哲負責我是不知道我沒有研究過這題誰該負責可是我覺得有一個歷史事實很重要因為當年的領導者是黃武雄教授\n267064\t277228\t黃文雄是410的精神跟理念的領導者那我找到他一篇文章想跟大家分享他在2021年在這個關鍵評論上他怎麼講他說廣設大學410民間教改的訴求是台灣應在5到10年內讓年輕人進大學的機會提到美國的54%甚至達到加拿大60%以上\n291674\t308880\t但我擔心當時的政府目光短淺那是1994年會便宜行事後面我暫時不念把高職專校升格為大學結果大幅降低大學的品質下一段1996年吳京上任教育部長提出第二國道的構想\n309480\t329753\t果然要大量升格公私立技職專校雖然教改人士到教育部前抗議要求好好廣設公立大學並指出公私立學校的不同定位跳過一段我找時任教育立委王拓去吳部長陳述利害可惜吳部長堅持如故\n330513\t346300\t後面第二國道一旦通車這些升格的技術學校與大學變成了龐大利益集團偉大不掉他們的存在阻撓了日後廣設新的有一定有水準的公立大學的任何提議\n347180\t375307\t這是黃武雄當時C0教育的領導者他認為是出在當時不是出在廣設高中跟大學是出在當時升格的方式那我想我不知道潘部長怎麼評定這件事情因為每一任部長都有責任那您做的是過去8年所以我比較想問的事情是我們現在去歷史究責應該是交給歷史學家去做研究的我想問的是說\n376977\t401333\t到現在為止至少我們看到當年的那種便宜形式的升格方式那的確面臨到少子化的過程中我們面臨到現在退場的問題那民團人士那當然剛剛也有人講過就是未來8年他們認為至少40所大專院校會退場那事實是不是這樣子我不知道但是我看到我們林萬億政委他回應說\n403695\t423316\t私校退場問題不會再惡化然後他提出的解方是各校朝精緻化教學發展請問潘部長是不是認同說這是解方呢就是那個林萬億政委講的精緻化教學的方向不會就是可以解決\n423917\t427701\t跟委員報告．確實現在生源．我們說少子化後的生源．這些都是客觀的數據．以目前臺灣大學的大專校院的規模．這個確實一定會出現．招生各方面的限制．\n441036\t453522\t大學後續的發展其實教育部也一直都比較希望因為這個是現在可以再努力的部分那這一段為什麼我們一直說大學可以做如林萬一政委講的這是一種形態之一\n456603\t457484\t部長,忍疫時間的緣故容許我先打斷您\n478304\t494112\t這裡至少今天的報告我比較沒有看到精緻化教學方案那這邊我要提醒您一個精緻化教學方案就是到底如何精緻化山簡科系整合的問題因為我們現在看到了幾個例子包含輔大\n495273\t495293\t范雲\n526713\t537537\t各位看一下我們台灣人文社科的學生比例真的太高了嗎?我們如果跟OECD比我們台灣的人文社科學生比例是22%OECD平均是29.4%韓國是28.6%日本是32%這些國家表現不好嗎?我們如果跟美國比我們又遠遠不如美國他是37.6%\n552181\t558885\t所以如果從一個國家的不管是經濟發展來講的話這些都是OECD經濟發展不錯的我們的人設學生人數是遠低於他們我們增加都來不及了我們要認平這些據說以財務為考量就是刪減這些他認為不賺錢的細索嗎我覺得這件事情如果違反國家的公共利益的話教育部就應該介入那部長怎麼回應這個部分\n581157\t609419\t其實在教育的過程本來就有個人跟整個國家社會的這樣的需求的考慮那教育本身也不是說通通把學生往哪一軌去發展所以在這樣的過程教育部為什麼也是一些委員這邊提對於某些科系我們當學校發生甚至是稀有的稀少的科系會有一些教育部的政策跟資源上的協助包含之前委員關心像性平所等等的\n609879\t630445\t這個是國家教育部的重要政策所以在這種概念裡面我覺得這是我們在政策上的一個基礎那這個部分是不是教育部給我一個報告好嗎如何不要讓各校因為自己的財務考量刪掉他認為不會賺錢的科系符合國家的方向這部分是不是可以給我們辦公室一個書面報告好嗎\n632085\t657452\t最後我也為剛剛有委員講過的我覺得召開高教我覺得也許不需要是全國教育但是高教一定要召開高教國是會議我去年3月質詢的時候部長說會去研議後來沒有下文部長可能就是下次再問您就是過去的成果您可不可以把這個當作交接清單交接給我們新部長的\n658632\t658792\t謝謝潘部長\n","txt":"潘文忠列席\n部長午安了我想今天大家關心的問題就是少子女化的浪潮大專院校如何因應首先我要先幫花蓮大漢技術學院的師生跟部長請命我知道剛剛林一金委員有問這題因為我早上有跟他們一起開記者會我覺得這個個案非常的重要因為部長應該記得當時我們在修私校退場條例的時候我個人是主張同步修私校\n大漢技術學院\n委員會主席\n剛剛我們民間的團體有很多的指責擔心董事會在財產方面可能有蠻多的議題那會淪為私人那教育部這邊是不是可以依照私校法你有的法律工具嚴格審查他相關的退場的計畫好嗎包含私生權益還有財產的公共性如何保障\n主動退場\n教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒\n請教育部依法嚴格審查確保師生的權益\n宣布退場的那一次校務會議的資料最後一個臨時提案就是內容是維護學生權益教學品質讓學生受教權受到保障提清審議那內容講的就是因為花蓮很多都是花蓮的學生地方那麼大你要他離開花蓮去別的學校這是嚴重傷害學生權益這個是\n出席27位同意19票反對0票等於是全場無意通過的可是現在的很多措施已經違反校務會議的決議了所以這個就大學法來講也是有問題的好不好那請部長嚴格幫忙監督我也會後續加\n再來相關的問題因為今天我們討論了很多教改大學退場的部分一直有講到這個410教改那跟部長報告一下我當年有參加410是學生的代表之一\n所以非常了解當時的四大訴求也非常了解教改前學校的困境我們這個世代是在有體罰的情況下像部長講的小學一班60幾人我們到現在同學會的時候同學還在分享當年看到老師體罰學生留下來的床上我們連目睹兒床上都還在所以這裡面有非常多的教育的改革是進步的\n可是現在大家爭執的這一點就是人人就廣設高中大學是不是目前的病源然後大家在執著說是不是要李遠哲負責我是不知道我沒有研究過這題誰該負責可是我覺得有一個歷史事實很重要因為當年的領導者是黃武雄教授\n黃文雄是410的精神跟理念的領導者那我找到他一篇文章想跟大家分享他在2021年在這個關鍵評論上他怎麼講他說廣設大學410民間教改的訴求是台灣應在5到10年內讓年輕人進大學的機會提到美國的54%甚至達到加拿大60%以上\n但我擔心當時的政府目光短淺那是1994年會便宜行事後面我暫時不念把高職專校升格為大學結果大幅降低大學的品質下一段1996年吳京上任教育部長提出第二國道的構想\n果然要大量升格公私立技職專校雖然教改人士到教育部前抗議要求好好廣設公立大學並指出公私立學校的不同定位跳過一段我找時任教育立委王拓去吳部長陳述利害可惜吳部長堅持如故\n後面第二國道一旦通車這些升格的技術學校與大學變成了龐大利益集團偉大不掉他們的存在阻撓了日後廣設新的有一定有水準的公立大學的任何提議\n這是黃武雄當時C0教育的領導者他認為是出在當時不是出在廣設高中跟大學是出在當時升格的方式那我想我不知道潘部長怎麼評定這件事情因為每一任部長都有責任那您做的是過去8年所以我比較想問的事情是我們現在去歷史究責應該是交給歷史學家去做研究的我想問的是說\n到現在為止至少我們看到當年的那種便宜形式的升格方式那的確面臨到少子化的過程中我們面臨到現在退場的問題那民團人士那當然剛剛也有人講過就是未來8年他們認為至少40所大專院校會退場那事實是不是這樣子我不知道但是我看到我們林萬億政委他回應說\n私校退場問題不會再惡化然後他提出的解方是各校朝精緻化教學發展請問潘部長是不是認同說這是解方呢就是那個林萬億政委講的精緻化教學的方向不會就是可以解決\n跟委員報告．確實現在生源．我們說少子化後的生源．這些都是客觀的數據．以目前臺灣大學的大專校院的規模．這個確實一定會出現．招生各方面的限制．\n大學後續的發展其實教育部也一直都比較希望因為這個是現在可以再努力的部分那這一段為什麼我們一直說大學可以做如林萬一政委講的這是一種形態之一\n部長,忍疫時間的緣故容許我先打斷您\n這裡至少今天的報告我比較沒有看到精緻化教學方案那這邊我要提醒您一個精緻化教學方案就是到底如何精緻化山簡科系整合的問題因為我們現在看到了幾個例子包含輔大\n范雲\n各位看一下我們台灣人文社科的學生比例真的太高了嗎?我們如果跟OECD比我們台灣的人文社科學生比例是22%OECD平均是29.4%韓國是28.6%日本是32%這些國家表現不好嗎?我們如果跟美國比我們又遠遠不如美國他是37.6%\n所以如果從一個國家的不管是經濟發展來講的話這些都是OECD經濟發展不錯的我們的人設學生人數是遠低於他們我們增加都來不及了我們要認平這些據說以財務為考量就是刪減這些他認為不賺錢的細索嗎我覺得這件事情如果違反國家的公共利益的話教育部就應該介入那部長怎麼回應這個部分\n其實在教育的過程本來就有個人跟整個國家社會的這樣的需求的考慮那教育本身也不是說通通把學生往哪一軌去發展所以在這樣的過程教育部為什麼也是一些委員這邊提對於某些科系我們當學校發生甚至是稀有的稀少的科系會有一些教育部的政策跟資源上的協助包含之前委員關心像性平所等等的\n這個是國家教育部的重要政策所以在這種概念裡面我覺得這是我們在政策上的一個基礎那這個部分是不是教育部給我一個報告好嗎如何不要讓各校因為自己的財務考量刪掉他認為不會賺錢的科系符合國家的方向這部分是不是可以給我們辦公室一個書面報告好嗎\n最後我也為剛剛有委員講過的我覺得召開高教我覺得也許不需要是全國教育但是高教一定要召開高教國是會議我去年3月質詢的時候部長說會去研議後來沒有下文部長可能就是下次再問您就是過去的成果您可不可以把這個當作交接清單交接給我們新部長的\n謝謝潘部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.958 --> 00:05.980\n潘文忠列席\n\n00:12.182 --> 00:21.445\n部長午安了我想今天大家關心的問題就是少子女化的浪潮大專院校如何因應首先我要先幫花蓮大漢技術學院的師生跟部長請命我知道剛剛林一金委員有問這題因為我早上有跟他們一起開記者會我覺得這個個案非常的重要因為部長應該記得當時我們在修私校退場條例的時候我個人是主張同步修私校\n\n00:42.073 --> 00:42.213\n大漢技術學院\n\n01:02.887 --> 01:03.127\n委員會主席\n\n01:21.581 --> 01:42.706\n剛剛我們民間的團體有很多的指責擔心董事會在財產方面可能有蠻多的議題那會淪為私人那教育部這邊是不是可以依照私校法你有的法律工具嚴格審查他相關的退場的計畫好嗎包含私生權益還有財產的公共性如何保障\n\n01:43.146 --> 01:43.186\n主動退場\n\n02:01.510 --> 02:03.351\n教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒\n\n02:24.824 --> 02:25.385\n請教育部依法嚴格審查確保師生的權益\n\n02:40.288 --> 02:58.393\n宣布退場的那一次校務會議的資料最後一個臨時提案就是內容是維護學生權益教學品質讓學生受教權受到保障提清審議那內容講的就是因為花蓮很多都是花蓮的學生地方那麼大你要他離開花蓮去別的學校這是嚴重傷害學生權益這個是\n\n03:00.994 --> 03:12.750\n出席27位同意19票反對0票等於是全場無意通過的可是現在的很多措施已經違反校務會議的決議了所以這個就大學法來講也是有問題的好不好那請部長嚴格幫忙監督我也會後續加\n\n03:19.458 --> 03:34.357\n再來相關的問題因為今天我們討論了很多教改大學退場的部分一直有講到這個410教改那跟部長報告一下我當年有參加410是學生的代表之一\n\n03:35.378 --> 04:03.524\n所以非常了解當時的四大訴求也非常了解教改前學校的困境我們這個世代是在有體罰的情況下像部長講的小學一班60幾人我們到現在同學會的時候同學還在分享當年看到老師體罰學生留下來的床上我們連目睹兒床上都還在所以這裡面有非常多的教育的改革是進步的\n\n04:04.404 --> 04:26.104\n可是現在大家爭執的這一點就是人人就廣設高中大學是不是目前的病源然後大家在執著說是不是要李遠哲負責我是不知道我沒有研究過這題誰該負責可是我覺得有一個歷史事實很重要因為當年的領導者是黃武雄教授\n\n04:27.064 --> 04:37.228\n黃文雄是410的精神跟理念的領導者那我找到他一篇文章想跟大家分享他在2021年在這個關鍵評論上他怎麼講他說廣設大學410民間教改的訴求是台灣應在5到10年內讓年輕人進大學的機會提到美國的54%甚至達到加拿大60%以上\n\n04:51.674 --> 05:08.880\n但我擔心當時的政府目光短淺那是1994年會便宜行事後面我暫時不念把高職專校升格為大學結果大幅降低大學的品質下一段1996年吳京上任教育部長提出第二國道的構想\n\n05:09.480 --> 05:29.753\n果然要大量升格公私立技職專校雖然教改人士到教育部前抗議要求好好廣設公立大學並指出公私立學校的不同定位跳過一段我找時任教育立委王拓去吳部長陳述利害可惜吳部長堅持如故\n\n05:30.513 --> 05:46.300\n後面第二國道一旦通車這些升格的技術學校與大學變成了龐大利益集團偉大不掉他們的存在阻撓了日後廣設新的有一定有水準的公立大學的任何提議\n\n05:47.180 --> 06:15.307\n這是黃武雄當時C0教育的領導者他認為是出在當時不是出在廣設高中跟大學是出在當時升格的方式那我想我不知道潘部長怎麼評定這件事情因為每一任部長都有責任那您做的是過去8年所以我比較想問的事情是我們現在去歷史究責應該是交給歷史學家去做研究的我想問的是說\n\n06:16.977 --> 06:41.333\n到現在為止至少我們看到當年的那種便宜形式的升格方式那的確面臨到少子化的過程中我們面臨到現在退場的問題那民團人士那當然剛剛也有人講過就是未來8年他們認為至少40所大專院校會退場那事實是不是這樣子我不知道但是我看到我們林萬億政委他回應說\n\n06:43.695 --> 07:03.316\n私校退場問題不會再惡化然後他提出的解方是各校朝精緻化教學發展請問潘部長是不是認同說這是解方呢就是那個林萬億政委講的精緻化教學的方向不會就是可以解決\n\n07:03.917 --> 07:07.701\n跟委員報告．確實現在生源．我們說少子化後的生源．這些都是客觀的數據．以目前臺灣大學的大專校院的規模．這個確實一定會出現．招生各方面的限制．\n\n07:21.036 --> 07:33.522\n大學後續的發展其實教育部也一直都比較希望因為這個是現在可以再努力的部分那這一段為什麼我們一直說大學可以做如林萬一政委講的這是一種形態之一\n\n07:36.603 --> 07:37.484\n部長,忍疫時間的緣故容許我先打斷您\n\n07:58.304 --> 08:14.112\n這裡至少今天的報告我比較沒有看到精緻化教學方案那這邊我要提醒您一個精緻化教學方案就是到底如何精緻化山簡科系整合的問題因為我們現在看到了幾個例子包含輔大\n\n08:15.273 --> 08:15.293\n范雲\n\n08:46.713 --> 08:57.537\n各位看一下我們台灣人文社科的學生比例真的太高了嗎?我們如果跟OECD比我們台灣的人文社科學生比例是22%OECD平均是29.4%韓國是28.6%日本是32%這些國家表現不好嗎?我們如果跟美國比我們又遠遠不如美國他是37.6%\n\n09:12.181 --> 09:18.885\n所以如果從一個國家的不管是經濟發展來講的話這些都是OECD經濟發展不錯的我們的人設學生人數是遠低於他們我們增加都來不及了我們要認平這些據說以財務為考量就是刪減這些他認為不賺錢的細索嗎我覺得這件事情如果違反國家的公共利益的話教育部就應該介入那部長怎麼回應這個部分\n\n09:41.157 --> 10:09.419\n其實在教育的過程本來就有個人跟整個國家社會的這樣的需求的考慮那教育本身也不是說通通把學生往哪一軌去發展所以在這樣的過程教育部為什麼也是一些委員這邊提對於某些科系我們當學校發生甚至是稀有的稀少的科系會有一些教育部的政策跟資源上的協助包含之前委員關心像性平所等等的\n\n10:09.879 --> 10:30.445\n這個是國家教育部的重要政策所以在這種概念裡面我覺得這是我們在政策上的一個基礎那這個部分是不是教育部給我一個報告好嗎如何不要讓各校因為自己的財務考量刪掉他認為不會賺錢的科系符合國家的方向這部分是不是可以給我們辦公室一個書面報告好嗎\n\n10:32.085 --> 10:57.452\n最後我也為剛剛有委員講過的我覺得召開高教我覺得也許不需要是全國教育但是高教一定要召開高教國是會議我去年3月質詢的時候部長說會去研議後來沒有下文部長可能就是下次再問您就是過去的成果您可不可以把這個當作交接清單交接給我們新部長的\n\n10:58.632 --> 10:58.792\n謝謝潘部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.958,"end":5.98,"text":"潘文忠列席"},{"start":12.182,"end":21.445,"text":"部長午安了我想今天大家關心的問題就是少子女化的浪潮大專院校如何因應首先我要先幫花蓮大漢技術學院的師生跟部長請命我知道剛剛林一金委員有問這題因為我早上有跟他們一起開記者會我覺得這個個案非常的重要因為部長應該記得當時我們在修私校退場條例的時候我個人是主張同步修私校"},{"start":42.073,"end":42.213,"text":"大漢技術學院"},{"start":62.887,"end":63.127,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":81.581,"end":102.706,"text":"剛剛我們民間的團體有很多的指責擔心董事會在財產方面可能有蠻多的議題那會淪為私人那教育部這邊是不是可以依照私校法你有的法律工具嚴格審查他相關的退場的計畫好嗎包含私生權益還有財產的公共性如何保障"},{"start":103.146,"end":103.186,"text":"主動退場"},{"start":121.51,"end":123.351,"text":"教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒教育部部長潘文忠列席提醒"},{"start":144.824,"end":145.385,"text":"請教育部依法嚴格審查確保師生的權益"},{"start":160.288,"end":178.393,"text":"宣布退場的那一次校務會議的資料最後一個臨時提案就是內容是維護學生權益教學品質讓學生受教權受到保障提清審議那內容講的就是因為花蓮很多都是花蓮的學生地方那麼大你要他離開花蓮去別的學校這是嚴重傷害學生權益這個是"},{"start":180.994,"end":192.75,"text":"出席27位同意19票反對0票等於是全場無意通過的可是現在的很多措施已經違反校務會議的決議了所以這個就大學法來講也是有問題的好不好那請部長嚴格幫忙監督我也會後續加"},{"start":199.458,"end":214.357,"text":"再來相關的問題因為今天我們討論了很多教改大學退場的部分一直有講到這個410教改那跟部長報告一下我當年有參加410是學生的代表之一"},{"start":215.378,"end":243.524,"text":"所以非常了解當時的四大訴求也非常了解教改前學校的困境我們這個世代是在有體罰的情況下像部長講的小學一班60幾人我們到現在同學會的時候同學還在分享當年看到老師體罰學生留下來的床上我們連目睹兒床上都還在所以這裡面有非常多的教育的改革是進步的"},{"start":244.404,"end":266.104,"text":"可是現在大家爭執的這一點就是人人就廣設高中大學是不是目前的病源然後大家在執著說是不是要李遠哲負責我是不知道我沒有研究過這題誰該負責可是我覺得有一個歷史事實很重要因為當年的領導者是黃武雄教授"},{"start":267.064,"end":277.228,"text":"黃文雄是410的精神跟理念的領導者那我找到他一篇文章想跟大家分享他在2021年在這個關鍵評論上他怎麼講他說廣設大學410民間教改的訴求是台灣應在5到10年內讓年輕人進大學的機會提到美國的54%甚至達到加拿大60%以上"},{"start":291.674,"end":308.88,"text":"但我擔心當時的政府目光短淺那是1994年會便宜行事後面我暫時不念把高職專校升格為大學結果大幅降低大學的品質下一段1996年吳京上任教育部長提出第二國道的構想"},{"start":309.48,"end":329.753,"text":"果然要大量升格公私立技職專校雖然教改人士到教育部前抗議要求好好廣設公立大學並指出公私立學校的不同定位跳過一段我找時任教育立委王拓去吳部長陳述利害可惜吳部長堅持如故"},{"start":330.513,"end":346.3,"text":"後面第二國道一旦通車這些升格的技術學校與大學變成了龐大利益集團偉大不掉他們的存在阻撓了日後廣設新的有一定有水準的公立大學的任何提議"},{"start":347.18,"end":375.307,"text":"這是黃武雄當時C0教育的領導者他認為是出在當時不是出在廣設高中跟大學是出在當時升格的方式那我想我不知道潘部長怎麼評定這件事情因為每一任部長都有責任那您做的是過去8年所以我比較想問的事情是我們現在去歷史究責應該是交給歷史學家去做研究的我想問的是說"},{"start":376.977,"end":401.333,"text":"到現在為止至少我們看到當年的那種便宜形式的升格方式那的確面臨到少子化的過程中我們面臨到現在退場的問題那民團人士那當然剛剛也有人講過就是未來8年他們認為至少40所大專院校會退場那事實是不是這樣子我不知道但是我看到我們林萬億政委他回應說"},{"start":403.695,"end":423.316,"text":"私校退場問題不會再惡化然後他提出的解方是各校朝精緻化教學發展請問潘部長是不是認同說這是解方呢就是那個林萬億政委講的精緻化教學的方向不會就是可以解決"},{"start":423.917,"end":427.701,"text":"跟委員報告．確實現在生源．我們說少子化後的生源．這些都是客觀的數據．以目前臺灣大學的大專校院的規模．這個確實一定會出現．招生各方面的限制．"},{"start":441.036,"end":453.522,"text":"大學後續的發展其實教育部也一直都比較希望因為這個是現在可以再努力的部分那這一段為什麼我們一直說大學可以做如林萬一政委講的這是一種形態之一"},{"start":456.603,"end":457.484,"text":"部長,忍疫時間的緣故容許我先打斷您"},{"start":478.304,"end":494.112,"text":"這裡至少今天的報告我比較沒有看到精緻化教學方案那這邊我要提醒您一個精緻化教學方案就是到底如何精緻化山簡科系整合的問題因為我們現在看到了幾個例子包含輔大"},{"start":495.273,"end":495.293,"text":"范雲"},{"start":526.713,"end":537.537,"text":"各位看一下我們台灣人文社科的學生比例真的太高了嗎?我們如果跟OECD比我們台灣的人文社科學生比例是22%OECD平均是29.4%韓國是28.6%日本是32%這些國家表現不好嗎?我們如果跟美國比我們又遠遠不如美國他是37.6%"},{"start":552.181,"end":558.885,"text":"所以如果從一個國家的不管是經濟發展來講的話這些都是OECD經濟發展不錯的我們的人設學生人數是遠低於他們我們增加都來不及了我們要認平這些據說以財務為考量就是刪減這些他認為不賺錢的細索嗎我覺得這件事情如果違反國家的公共利益的話教育部就應該介入那部長怎麼回應這個部分"},{"start":581.157,"end":609.419,"text":"其實在教育的過程本來就有個人跟整個國家社會的這樣的需求的考慮那教育本身也不是說通通把學生往哪一軌去發展所以在這樣的過程教育部為什麼也是一些委員這邊提對於某些科系我們當學校發生甚至是稀有的稀少的科系會有一些教育部的政策跟資源上的協助包含之前委員關心像性平所等等的"},{"start":609.879,"end":630.445,"text":"這個是國家教育部的重要政策所以在這種概念裡面我覺得這是我們在政策上的一個基礎那這個部分是不是教育部給我一個報告好嗎如何不要讓各校因為自己的財務考量刪掉他認為不會賺錢的科系符合國家的方向這部分是不是可以給我們辦公室一個書面報告好嗎"},{"start":632.085,"end":657.452,"text":"最後我也為剛剛有委員講過的我覺得召開高教我覺得也許不需要是全國教育但是高教一定要召開高教國是會議我去年3月質詢的時候部長說會去研議後來沒有下文部長可能就是下次再問您就是過去的成果您可不可以把這個當作交接清單交接給我們新部長的"},{"start":658.632,"end":658.792,"text":"謝謝潘部長"}]}}}}