{"id":151329,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151329","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162779b3fe70ccc2a5ed0e5cada98db34c32c5dab72e655c1c943b92ca8a14ff0d395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"13:08:32 - 13:13:23","影片長度":"00:04:51","會議時間":"2024-04-17T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長王國材就「花蓮地震公路、鐵路、空運、海運應變機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「國道六號東延花蓮建設特別條例草案」案。\n【詢答及處理】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-17","duration":291,"end_time":"2024-04-17T13:13:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-17T13:08:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":636,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（13時8分）主席，請部長。"],["主席：不好意思！請簡短一點，因為要處理案子。"],["林委員國成：好，OK。"],["王部長國材：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長，今天質詢你，心裡有依依不捨，在我個人不管是當議員甚至當立委，我看到的是講求專業的王國材。"],["王部長國材：謝謝。"],["林委員國成：這不是拍馬屁，是因為我私底下曾請教你，我比較質問的，就是傅崐萁總召就花蓮的部分提出兩個案、三個案，但我看到本會同仁一直在批評這個、批評那個，可是我私底下有請教你，你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的，可是我們今天說實在的，你這個專業的走了，又換一個政治的，那就更糟糕了。所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府，交通的事情要用交通解決，不是用政治解決，所以我還真的滿希望下一屆的部長，最少要像王國材這樣的講專業再講政治，不要先講政治再講專業。","本席雖有依依不捨，但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題，大家為什麼不想一想，我們從南投到花蓮，花蓮到南投，本來是20公里而已，偏偏一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮、才可以到南投，情何以堪！南投的人也是人，花蓮的人也是人，住在臺北或是住在哪裡的都是人啊！臺灣人民為什麼要有不同的待遇？就是因為有政治力的介入！所以我就感覺很奇怪，建設都不談專業，卻先談政治，然後再來談專業，這是本末倒置！基本上本席非常不贊同。","另外，部長，你有沒有想一想，為什麼他們一直要提這個案？這也是被你們逼的啦！30年來你們說要做，不管是蘇花高、蘇花什麼、蘇花鐵或者國道六號，都被你們騙到現在已經30年過去了，住在花東地區的人，住在沿線的人，我跟你說，剛才我看到傅崐萁總召在播放那些東西，我瞬間就有一個想法，如果那個石頭掉下來砸到的是我或者親人，你情何以堪？你心裡面是什麼感覺？你們在做專業判定的時候，如果有這種心情，我認為這個問題很快就可以解決了，不是嗎？所以真的，將心比心，30年來你們大家都是專家、都在做計畫，都政治凌駕於專業，這樣不好。最後，也有人在講，這已經花3,000億了，但就算花了3,000億，問題還是沒解決，花3兆也是一樣啊！沒有問題被解決，你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑，所以這3,000億不要再講了。","還有，有人說那裡有岩石、地震等等什麼東西的，我跟你說，部長，用技術啦！現在都可以有所突破，不要用臺灣人民的想法，我坦白跟你講，任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理，所以說實在的，我住在臺北，而我本身是屏東人，當然跟我無關，可是我就看不過去，你聽懂嗎？部長，雖然我依依不捨，但是你有在講良心話，我希望下一任的部長不要再政治凌駕專業，所以我要拜託部長，你也不用答復了，因為心裡話你也不敢說出來，不要政治凌駕專業，我還是要呼籲，專業很重要，不要政治凌駕專業，所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做，這是本席對交通部所有人員的一個期許，好，你也不用答復了！謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員。","現在處理臨時提案，本日計有1個案子，請議事人宣讀。","案由：鑑於0403花蓮地震造成地形地貌重大改變，地質更加脆弱，且山區環境極不穩定；又高速公路局曾於110年12月召開國內專家顧問諮詢會議，諮詢國外專家初步評估須穿越中央山脈，不確定因素高，除工程技術困難度極高，並具有造價高、工期長、環境衝擊巨大、行車安全及防救災疑慮。","然安全回家的路，不僅是基於交流便利之交通平權，更應是立於安全之上，本草案涉及重大交通建設之推動，自規劃至執行等過程需經過詳實可行性評估，嚴謹確認符合計畫效益，為避免本草案審查過程過於倉促草率，應給予委員們就法案內容充裕之討論餘地，以期使立法過程更為周詳務實。爰要求交通部針對重大交通建設推動應循序漸進，先完成地質調查及踏勘研究，再視研究成果進行可行性評估。","提案人：林俊憲　　李昆澤　　陳素月　　何欣純　　徐富癸　　蔡其昌"],["主席：請問交通部有沒有意見？"],["趙局長興華：報告委員會，沒有意見。"],["主席：交通部沒有意見。各位委員有沒有意見？有啊！魯委員，你要不要說明一下？"],["魯委員明哲：我想針對於安全的部分跟專業技術的部分，其實大家都是有共識，交通上有一個安全回家的路，不管是通往花東還是西部，都是我們臺灣東南西北的共同要求，我們的意見就這方面是沒有問題的。但是後面第二段的部分，其實就直接講到了我們國道六號東延花蓮的條例，這整個的內容，我覺得是針對立法委員、是針對我們，它不是在講交通部，而是立法委員應該要怎麼樣、怎麼樣，對交通部反而基本上沒有提任何的事情，完全沒有對他們有一些要求，我想就這個部分，就是對委員這邊有一個討論，因為待會國道六號東延我們花蓮的這個案子，本來就會逐條做一個討論，在這個討論中，都可以直接一一來表達意見，所以我個人是不希望第二段有一些針對立委的文字在裡面，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請副院長。"],["蔡委員其昌：我剛剛在這裡聽林國成委員提到政治不應該凌駕專業，本人深有同感，我也覺得政治不應該凌駕專業，民進黨幾位委員同仁所提的臨時提案，很清楚地「爰要求交通部針對重大交通建設推動應循序漸進，先完成地質調查及踏勘研究，再視研究成果進行可行性評估」。我想請問，要求交通部做這樣的一個行政程序，不是因為對專業的重視、不是國家在面對重大交通建設所該進行的程序嗎？就算今天最後國民黨所提、傅崐萁委員所提的版本通過了，難道我們的程序不是先進行地質調查、踏勘研究，再進行可行性評估嗎？這個叫做專業啦！所以我不知道的是，反對這個案子後，接下來就算傅崐萁委員的版本通過了，請問一下諸位委員，你們該怎麼進行國道六號延伸花東的案子？所以我想民進黨委員所提的這個提案，主要是提醒交通部，程序就是這樣走，如果大家反對程序這樣走，我倒想請教大家接下來認為應該怎麼樣走？表決過了，交通部連地質探勘什麼都不用做，可行性評估也不用做就直接蓋嗎？這個叫做政治凌駕專業，我以上做這樣的報告。"],["主席：好，謝謝副院長。","請林俊憲委員。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝主席，各位同仁，剛剛提到的地質調查報告，也許我們很多同仁不曉得，國道六號東延到花蓮的路廊踏勘及地質調查進行到一半，這是112（2023）年12月14號展開的，也就是說，目前正在進行地質調查當中，預計2026年完成地質的調查，所以地質調查已經開始了，而且調查到一半，如果按照我們傅崐萁委員版本裡面寫的「立即啟動可行性評估」，這個會有衝突啦！應該是先完成地質調查報告，以它作為基礎，可行性評估才能進行，其實我們這個提案也不是反對，這個臨時提案的內容是說先完成地質調查及踏勘研究，因為它已進行到一半了，政府已經花錢花到一半了，你現在突然間要求它立即啟動可行性評估，我們認為這樣有所衝突，所以才提出這樣一個臨時提案。以上補充。"],["主席：請素月委員。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝主席。針對國道六號東延花蓮建設案，我們的提案事實上不是在反對這個建設，因為我們知道重大交通建設不是一蹴可幾的，然後也需要長時間的推動，所以剛剛林國成委員的發言，我也深表贊同，就是不能政治凌駕專業，真的！我們要尊重專業，所以這個地質調查、踏勘就是專業，而且交通部也不是沒有在處理這個案子，目前是在進行中，就是在進行地質調查及踏勘的研究，所以我們是不是就按照程序來走，讓這個重大交通建設的推動能夠更順暢而且更周延，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝素月委員。素月委員等一下，早上蔡副院長講我們要尊重憲法，對不對？像馬祖那邊的大橋，副院長，我跟你報告一下，馬祖大橋可行性評估也過了，綜合規劃也出來了，技術也沒問題，預算也沒問題，錢就是不給啊！這是什麼？這是政治凌駕專業，這個才叫政治凌駕專業，剛才已經講了，我也不想再講了，而且傅崐萁委員也沒有提到要多少錢，也沒有說一定要幹什麼，只是希望政府重視一下，是不是？","請林國成委員發言。"],["林委員國成：我想民進黨提這個案子，我個人的看法當然是OK啦！是不是在最後那三段，我建議比較綜合性地尊重交通部這裡的作業，因為後面那兩段我認為應該、一定要做，所以有沒有可能要求交通部的這個部分改為「建請交通部」或後面再加一個「研議」，這個問題就由交通部他們去做評估，有沒有可能這樣做呢？這個提案當然是沒有問題，能不能「要求」改為「建議」？這樣可能比較柔性一點。因為你們提了這些，最後則是由交通部他們來做後面這些動作，所以我是建議這樣，請大家參考看看。"],["主席：「要求」改為「建請」，行不行？"],["何委員欣純：好。"],["林委員國成：還有交通部「研議」。"],["主席：改為「爰建請交通部研議」……"],["傅委員崐萁：主席……"],["主席：請傅崐萁委員。"],["傅委員崐萁：提案人做一個說明，剛剛誠如主席所講的，馬祖大橋可行性研究通過了，所有程序都完備了，但是沒有錢，因為不願意編列，也誠如剛剛主席在詢答的時候有問到，鄭天財委員詢答時也有提到，2008年5月20號國民黨執政，2年8個月之後，完成可行性研究，完成所有的程序，在2011年1月29號動工，2年8個月蘇花改動工，從可行性研究、綜合規劃、環境影響評估、預算編列全部完成。","我們再轉頭回來看一下，國道六號2020年3月4號在本委員會就已經通過，要進行地質調查探勘，到今天部長表示，2026年年底地質調查才可以完成，一個地質調查總共要6年9個月，還不要想後面的可行性研究，其實提這個案子我想大家都很清楚，裡面都是交通部原本就知道它該怎麼做的，光提這個案子，本席現在是覺得都尊重啦！但是對這整個開發有什麼實質的意義？就只有看到民進黨政府的行政效率，6年9個月才能夠把地質探勘完成，後面的可行性研究，可能再搞10年，所以如果今天這個決議通過的話，以後它就照這個立法院的決議，再搞個15年，15年之後可行性研究才通過，其實我們這個案子裡面已經沒有提到預算了，如果政府要編列就編列，沒有編列的話，發國內或國際的BOT。BOT的話，國際的企業集團，像日本到東南亞做了這麼多的ODA，做了這麼多的PPP，都可以來做，美國、歐洲都可以來做，都很快！不像我們一個地質探勘要6年9個月，我們當然瞭解這個提案的用意是什麼，但是在提案的時候有沒有想一下，將心比心，為什麼那個地方的人要走這樣的路？這次台8線埋掉這麼多人，十幾條人命在台8線裡面，難道還喚不醒大家的一點同理心嗎？這個案子本身我是持反對的態度。"],["主席：三黨的意見都不一樣。"],["林委員俊憲：主席，請交通部回答一下，剛剛傅崐萁委員提的是有一點落差，交通部的資料是112年12月14號才開始地質調查，地質調查不是要6年9個月，如果以預計的115年完成，應該是3年，所以請交通部回答一下。"],["主席：交通部請回答一下。"],["王部長國材：我們是去年12月委託出去，是2023年12月到2026年12月，所以是3年，就這3年裡面，包括地質調查跟路廊的踏勘，就是怎麼樣找到一條好的路廊。事實上，這個做好以後，後面的可行性也就比較容易了，所以我是覺得這個過程當中，因為這個地方過去的確有相當多環境跟地質的課題，我是覺得就3年的時間趕快把它做出一個結論。"],["主席：請鄭天財委員發言。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：臺灣重大的交通建設，不是第一次，我一再的跟交通部提到，北迴鐵路民國六十幾年開始做，它的難度絕對不會比國道六號延伸到花蓮來得難，那個更難啦！北迴鐵路不是公路、不是高速公路，是鐵路！所以要不要做而已，這個地質調查、踏勘本來就會做，為什麼這個時候要提這樣的案？這才是一個我們要去思考的，本來就要做，北迴鐵路要開闢，它不做地質調查、踏勘研究嗎？蘇花改要做、要興建的時候，它不做地質調查、踏勘研究嗎？都有做！本來就要做！這個時候為什麼要提？這個時候為什麼要提？重點在這裡啊！重點在這裡！本來就要做，重點是為什麼這個時候要提？對不對？本來就要做啊！"],["何委員欣純：要做就要同意。"],["主席：鄭委員……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個時候提……這個才是政治的……"],["主席：鄭委員，這個扯不完的，因為國民黨有國民黨的意見，民進黨的委員同意林國成委員修正的意見，但國民黨不同意，我看就表決吧！是不是？同意不同意表決？同意不同意表決？要不要表決？要嗎？"],["何委員欣純：這有什麼好表決的？"],["主席：不然怎麼辦？"],["何委員欣純：本來就要做，那就同意……"],["主席：不然就一直扯！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：本來就要做就不要提，我的意思是就不要提了，提了反而是有政治的考量。"],["蔡委員其昌：兇什麼！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我沒有兇，我是大聲而已。"],["主席：好，工作人員發點涼茶給他們喝，情緒不要激動！不是啦！就這麼一個案子，大家緩和一點！都是立法院的好同事嘛！","國民黨委員是不是同意民進黨委員這個提案？同意不同意？"],["何委員欣純：「建請」啊！「建請」已經很緩和了。"],["蔡委員其昌：只是「建請」，也要反對？"],["主席：不然就只有表決了，對不對？我們就採民主的方式，因為我們後面還有案子要處理。","我看表決前就先清點人數好了。","（清點人數）"],["主席：在場出席委員13人，不包含主席，已足法定人數。","現在進行表決，贊成這個提案的，請舉手。","（進行表決）"],["主席：贊成者6人。","反對者，請舉手。","（進行表決）"],["主席：反對者7人。","反對者多數，本案不通過。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢。作以下的決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員林憶君、黃仁、許智傑、陳培瑜、沈伯洋所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","傅崐萁","蔡其昌","游顥","林俊憲","何欣純","陳素月","林國成","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃健豪","徐富癸","廖先翔","王世堅","許宇甄","麥玉珍","邱若華","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:32,234\n好,署長請部長今天在質詢你啊心裡面有依依不捨在我個人不管是當議員到當立委來我看到的講求專業的是王國材這不是拍馬屁是因為我私底下請教你\n\n2\n00:00:33,567 --> 00:00:54,420\n我比較質問的就傅崐萁總召提出花蓮的有兩個案、三個案我就看本會同仁一直在批評這個批評那個但是我私底下請教你你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的\n\n3\n00:00:55,782 --> 00:01:07,195\n可是我們今天說實在的你專業走了以後又來換一個政治那就更糟糕更糟糕所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府\n\n4\n00:01:08,666 --> 00:01:33,734\n交通的事情是要用交通解決不是用政治解決所以我還是真的蠻希望下一屆的部長真的最少要像王國材這樣講專業再講政治不要先講政治再來講專業所以本席雖有依依不捨但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題\n\n5\n00:01:37,438 --> 00:01:56,172\n我們為什麼不想一想我們從南投到花蓮花蓮到南投本來是20公里而已你偏偏的一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮才可以到南投\n\n6\n00:01:57,940 --> 00:02:26,477\n請何以堪呢?藍島也是人耶!花蓮也是人耶!在台北、在地下都都是人耶!台灣人民那為什麼要不同的待遇?就是因為有政治力的介入所以我就感覺到很奇怪啊建設都不談專業先談政治再來談專業這個本末倒置基本上本席是非常不贊同的\n\n7\n00:02:27,352 --> 00:02:33,716\n另外一個,部長你有沒有想一想為什麼他們一直要提這個案?\n\n8\n00:02:35,030 --> 00:03:04,250\n這個也是被你們逼的啦三十年以來你們說要做我不管是梳化膏、梳化什麼、梳化鐵或者國道六號欸!都被你們騙到這陣子已經三十年了耶住在花東地區的人住在沿線的人我跟你說剛才我看到傅君祺總召在播放那些東西我就瞬間有一個想法如果\n\n9\n00:03:05,150 --> 00:03:29,677\n那個石頭扎下來是我或者親人你情何以堪你心裡面有什麼感覺如果你們在做專業判定的時候你們如果有這種心情我認為這個問題就很快解決啊不是嗎所以真的將心比心三十年以來你們大家都專家都在做價位都政治臨界與專業這不好\n\n10\n00:03:31,337 --> 00:03:57,852\n所以最後啦也有人在講啊說啊這我今天開三千億啊開三千億啊問題不解決開三兆也是一樣啊沒有問題沒有解決你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑所以三千億不要再講另外一個就說啊那裡啊岩石啊地震啊什麼東西我跟你講啦部長技術啊現在都可以突破\n\n11\n00:03:58,872 --> 00:04:14,758\n不要用台灣人民的想法我坦白跟你講任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理所以我說實在啦我住在台北我本身病棟人當然跟我無關可是我就看不過去嘛\n\n12\n00:04:17,103 --> 00:04:34,310\n所以我希望雖然依依不捨但是你有這功能行為我希望下一屆的部長不要再政治臨駕專業啦所以博弈我要拜託啦你不用答號啦因為你答號心裡話你不敢講啦政治臨駕專業我還是要呼籲\n\n13\n00:04:37,312 --> 00:04:50,143\n專業很重要不要用政治臨界專業所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做這是本市對交通部所有的人員一個啟示啦好你也不用打抱啦謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4332\t32234\t好,署長請部長今天在質詢你啊心裡面有依依不捨在我個人不管是當議員到當立委來我看到的講求專業的是王國材這不是拍馬屁是因為我私底下請教你\n33567\t54420\t我比較質問的就傅崐萁總召提出花蓮的有兩個案、三個案我就看本會同仁一直在批評這個批評那個但是我私底下請教你你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的\n55782\t67195\t可是我們今天說實在的你專業走了以後又來換一個政治那就更糟糕更糟糕所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府\n68666\t93734\t交通的事情是要用交通解決不是用政治解決所以我還是真的蠻希望下一屆的部長真的最少要像王國材這樣講專業再講政治不要先講政治再來講專業所以本席雖有依依不捨但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題\n97438\t116172\t我們為什麼不想一想我們從南投到花蓮花蓮到南投本來是20公里而已你偏偏的一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮才可以到南投\n117940\t146477\t請何以堪呢?藍島也是人耶!花蓮也是人耶!在台北、在地下都都是人耶!台灣人民那為什麼要不同的待遇?就是因為有政治力的介入所以我就感覺到很奇怪啊建設都不談專業先談政治再來談專業這個本末倒置基本上本席是非常不贊同的\n147352\t153716\t另外一個,部長你有沒有想一想為什麼他們一直要提這個案?\n155030\t184250\t這個也是被你們逼的啦三十年以來你們說要做我不管是梳化膏、梳化什麼、梳化鐵或者國道六號欸!都被你們騙到這陣子已經三十年了耶住在花東地區的人住在沿線的人我跟你說剛才我看到傅君祺總召在播放那些東西我就瞬間有一個想法如果\n185150\t209677\t那個石頭扎下來是我或者親人你情何以堪你心裡面有什麼感覺如果你們在做專業判定的時候你們如果有這種心情我認為這個問題就很快解決啊不是嗎所以真的將心比心三十年以來你們大家都專家都在做價位都政治臨界與專業這不好\n211337\t237852\t所以最後啦也有人在講啊說啊這我今天開三千億啊開三千億啊問題不解決開三兆也是一樣啊沒有問題沒有解決你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑所以三千億不要再講另外一個就說啊那裡啊岩石啊地震啊什麼東西我跟你講啦部長技術啊現在都可以突破\n238872\t254758\t不要用台灣人民的想法我坦白跟你講任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理所以我說實在啦我住在台北我本身病棟人當然跟我無關可是我就看不過去嘛\n257103\t274310\t所以我希望雖然依依不捨但是你有這功能行為我希望下一屆的部長不要再政治臨駕專業啦所以博弈我要拜託啦你不用答號啦因為你答號心裡話你不敢講啦政治臨駕專業我還是要呼籲\n277312\t290143\t專業很重要不要用政治臨界專業所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做這是本市對交通部所有的人員一個啟示啦好你也不用打抱啦謝謝\n","txt":"好,署長請部長今天在質詢你啊心裡面有依依不捨在我個人不管是當議員到當立委來我看到的講求專業的是王國材這不是拍馬屁是因為我私底下請教你\n我比較質問的就傅崐萁總召提出花蓮的有兩個案、三個案我就看本會同仁一直在批評這個批評那個但是我私底下請教你你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的\n可是我們今天說實在的你專業走了以後又來換一個政治那就更糟糕更糟糕所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府\n交通的事情是要用交通解決不是用政治解決所以我還是真的蠻希望下一屆的部長真的最少要像王國材這樣講專業再講政治不要先講政治再來講專業所以本席雖有依依不捨但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題\n我們為什麼不想一想我們從南投到花蓮花蓮到南投本來是20公里而已你偏偏的一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮才可以到南投\n請何以堪呢?藍島也是人耶!花蓮也是人耶!在台北、在地下都都是人耶!台灣人民那為什麼要不同的待遇?就是因為有政治力的介入所以我就感覺到很奇怪啊建設都不談專業先談政治再來談專業這個本末倒置基本上本席是非常不贊同的\n另外一個,部長你有沒有想一想為什麼他們一直要提這個案?\n這個也是被你們逼的啦三十年以來你們說要做我不管是梳化膏、梳化什麼、梳化鐵或者國道六號欸!都被你們騙到這陣子已經三十年了耶住在花東地區的人住在沿線的人我跟你說剛才我看到傅君祺總召在播放那些東西我就瞬間有一個想法如果\n那個石頭扎下來是我或者親人你情何以堪你心裡面有什麼感覺如果你們在做專業判定的時候你們如果有這種心情我認為這個問題就很快解決啊不是嗎所以真的將心比心三十年以來你們大家都專家都在做價位都政治臨界與專業這不好\n所以最後啦也有人在講啊說啊這我今天開三千億啊開三千億啊問題不解決開三兆也是一樣啊沒有問題沒有解決你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑所以三千億不要再講另外一個就說啊那裡啊岩石啊地震啊什麼東西我跟你講啦部長技術啊現在都可以突破\n不要用台灣人民的想法我坦白跟你講任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理所以我說實在啦我住在台北我本身病棟人當然跟我無關可是我就看不過去嘛\n所以我希望雖然依依不捨但是你有這功能行為我希望下一屆的部長不要再政治臨駕專業啦所以博弈我要拜託啦你不用答號啦因為你答號心裡話你不敢講啦政治臨駕專業我還是要呼籲\n專業很重要不要用政治臨界專業所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做這是本市對交通部所有的人員一個啟示啦好你也不用打抱啦謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.332 --> 00:32.234\n好,署長請部長今天在質詢你啊心裡面有依依不捨在我個人不管是當議員到當立委來我看到的講求專業的是王國材這不是拍馬屁是因為我私底下請教你\n\n00:33.567 --> 00:54.420\n我比較質問的就傅崐萁總召提出花蓮的有兩個案、三個案我就看本會同仁一直在批評這個批評那個但是我私底下請教你你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的\n\n00:55.782 --> 01:07.195\n可是我們今天說實在的你專業走了以後又來換一個政治那就更糟糕更糟糕所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府\n\n01:08.666 --> 01:33.734\n交通的事情是要用交通解決不是用政治解決所以我還是真的蠻希望下一屆的部長真的最少要像王國材這樣講專業再講政治不要先講政治再來講專業所以本席雖有依依不捨但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題\n\n01:37.438 --> 01:56.172\n我們為什麼不想一想我們從南投到花蓮花蓮到南投本來是20公里而已你偏偏的一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮才可以到南投\n\n01:57.940 --> 02:26.477\n請何以堪呢?藍島也是人耶!花蓮也是人耶!在台北、在地下都都是人耶!台灣人民那為什麼要不同的待遇?就是因為有政治力的介入所以我就感覺到很奇怪啊建設都不談專業先談政治再來談專業這個本末倒置基本上本席是非常不贊同的\n\n02:27.352 --> 02:33.716\n另外一個,部長你有沒有想一想為什麼他們一直要提這個案?\n\n02:35.030 --> 03:04.250\n這個也是被你們逼的啦三十年以來你們說要做我不管是梳化膏、梳化什麼、梳化鐵或者國道六號欸!都被你們騙到這陣子已經三十年了耶住在花東地區的人住在沿線的人我跟你說剛才我看到傅君祺總召在播放那些東西我就瞬間有一個想法如果\n\n03:05.150 --> 03:29.677\n那個石頭扎下來是我或者親人你情何以堪你心裡面有什麼感覺如果你們在做專業判定的時候你們如果有這種心情我認為這個問題就很快解決啊不是嗎所以真的將心比心三十年以來你們大家都專家都在做價位都政治臨界與專業這不好\n\n03:31.337 --> 03:57.852\n所以最後啦也有人在講啊說啊這我今天開三千億啊開三千億啊問題不解決開三兆也是一樣啊沒有問題沒有解決你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑所以三千億不要再講另外一個就說啊那裡啊岩石啊地震啊什麼東西我跟你講啦部長技術啊現在都可以突破\n\n03:58.872 --> 04:14.758\n不要用台灣人民的想法我坦白跟你講任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理所以我說實在啦我住在台北我本身病棟人當然跟我無關可是我就看不過去嘛\n\n04:17.103 --> 04:34.310\n所以我希望雖然依依不捨但是你有這功能行為我希望下一屆的部長不要再政治臨駕專業啦所以博弈我要拜託啦你不用答號啦因為你答號心裡話你不敢講啦政治臨駕專業我還是要呼籲\n\n04:37.312 --> 04:50.143\n專業很重要不要用政治臨界專業所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做這是本市對交通部所有的人員一個啟示啦好你也不用打抱啦謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.332,"end":32.234,"text":"好,署長請部長今天在質詢你啊心裡面有依依不捨在我個人不管是當議員到當立委來我看到的講求專業的是王國材這不是拍馬屁是因為我私底下請教你"},{"start":33.567,"end":54.42,"text":"我比較質問的就傅崐萁總召提出花蓮的有兩個案、三個案我就看本會同仁一直在批評這個批評那個但是我私底下請教你你確確實實覺得花蓮的交通是要解決的"},{"start":55.782,"end":67.195,"text":"可是我們今天說實在的你專業走了以後又來換一個政治那就更糟糕更糟糕所以我還是要呼籲未來的賴政府"},{"start":68.666,"end":93.734,"text":"交通的事情是要用交通解決不是用政治解決所以我還是真的蠻希望下一屆的部長真的最少要像王國材這樣講專業再講政治不要先講政治再來講專業所以本席雖有依依不捨但是就事論事還是要來談國道六號的問題"},{"start":97.438,"end":116.172,"text":"我們為什麼不想一想我們從南投到花蓮花蓮到南投本來是20公里而已你偏偏的一定要繞了350公里才可以到花蓮才可以到南投"},{"start":117.94,"end":146.477,"text":"請何以堪呢?藍島也是人耶!花蓮也是人耶!在台北、在地下都都是人耶!台灣人民那為什麼要不同的待遇?就是因為有政治力的介入所以我就感覺到很奇怪啊建設都不談專業先談政治再來談專業這個本末倒置基本上本席是非常不贊同的"},{"start":147.352,"end":153.716,"text":"另外一個,部長你有沒有想一想為什麼他們一直要提這個案?"},{"start":155.03,"end":184.25,"text":"這個也是被你們逼的啦三十年以來你們說要做我不管是梳化膏、梳化什麼、梳化鐵或者國道六號欸!都被你們騙到這陣子已經三十年了耶住在花東地區的人住在沿線的人我跟你說剛才我看到傅君祺總召在播放那些東西我就瞬間有一個想法如果"},{"start":185.15,"end":209.677,"text":"那個石頭扎下來是我或者親人你情何以堪你心裡面有什麼感覺如果你們在做專業判定的時候你們如果有這種心情我認為這個問題就很快解決啊不是嗎所以真的將心比心三十年以來你們大家都專家都在做價位都政治臨界與專業這不好"},{"start":211.337,"end":237.852,"text":"所以最後啦也有人在講啊說啊這我今天開三千億啊開三千億啊問題不解決開三兆也是一樣啊沒有問題沒有解決你花一塊錢都是浪費公帑所以三千億不要再講另外一個就說啊那裡啊岩石啊地震啊什麼東西我跟你講啦部長技術啊現在都可以突破"},{"start":238.872,"end":254.758,"text":"不要用台灣人民的想法我坦白跟你講任何再困難的技術都有辦法去處理所以我說實在啦我住在台北我本身病棟人當然跟我無關可是我就看不過去嘛"},{"start":257.103,"end":274.31,"text":"所以我希望雖然依依不捨但是你有這功能行為我希望下一屆的部長不要再政治臨駕專業啦所以博弈我要拜託啦你不用答號啦因為你答號心裡話你不敢講啦政治臨駕專業我還是要呼籲"},{"start":277.312,"end":290.143,"text":"專業很重要不要用政治臨界專業所以拜託這個案件該做的就要做這是本市對交通部所有的人員一個啟示啦好你也不用打抱啦謝謝"}]}}}}