{"id":151351,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151351","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445fc6e67819632d272cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94086e5678e26938075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"09:23:10 - 09:34:03","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":653,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:34:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:23:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":56,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（9時23分）謝謝主席。有請徐委員長，謝謝。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：沈委員早安。"],["沈委員伯洋：早安。我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對臺灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：這個看起來也做得非常的完善，其實還是很希望這些工作反而能夠在臺灣進行，因為臺灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多，所以這個是現在我們臺灣非常面臨的挑戰。","我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題，再做一些追蹤，第一個就是錯假訊息的澄清，是因為在第4頁這邊有提到僑委會還是會持續透過各種場合，包括透過一些社群媒體去讓僑界瞭解假訊息的危害。這個可以分成兩個層面，第一個，當然就是在還沒有假消息之前，先告訴他們假消息本身的危害是什麼。第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息，然後僑委會這邊會協助澄清，對不對？大概是這兩個步驟。我這邊只是舉例，譬如說之前的潛艦國造，還有雞蛋進口，都有相關的假消息，我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大關係，這都中國製造的。這兩個在中國製造的貼文裡面，最主要散播的對象有時候反而都不是臺灣人民，反而比較多都是他們認為是海外的中國人，而他們的海外的中國人就把海外的臺灣人也包含進去，所以就是大量地對臺灣人也一起散播。目前我看到要針對這個來澄清的話，第一個當然是我們的官網這邊會有新聞稿，這個沒什麼問題，但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點，對不對？而行政院這個即時新聞澄清又還要再連過去。我後來有看到僑務電子報，因為僑務電子報的排版相較於剛剛前面這一個，視覺上當然是一定比較容易閱讀。所以會不會在僑務電子報這邊有一個針對剛剛這種闢謠專區的設計呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員你這個建議，我覺得非常好，我們會跟相關同仁討論一下，看版面上我們怎麼樣讓澄清資訊的版面可以有更好的處理，如果真的有一些需要即時性宣布的時候，海外僑民可以很快速的取得，而且我們也會積極地除了用中文華語以外，再用其他的語言，英文也同步執行。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝。因為僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位，如果欄位點進去又會變成像這一種的話，那意義就會不大，因為這是官方的，官方的沒有辦法，因為我們官方本來就會這樣做，但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：我這邊有放一個案例，雖然這個跟今天無關，但因為最近花蓮的災情，有災情的時候，所有災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清，這個是日本的防災資訊網，他們就會有很多不同的區塊，回到剛剛僑務電子報這種區塊的方式，如果今天在闢謠的專區，譬如可以是跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的，那種區塊分類我覺得看你們要怎麼做都可以。而這樣的一個方向，基本上會是第一時間電子報發出去之後，他們就可以知道，譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼，不是單純臺灣國內的爭議消息，因為對於臺灣國內的爭議消息，不一定是他最在意的事情。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：他最在意的會是中國在那一個國家丟的爭議消息，因為那個會跟他有切身的關係。"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以不管是中國丟的假消息的整理，還有我們國內怎麼去回應，要怎麼把它轉譯成其他語言、其他圖卡，然後放在類似像這種對僑民的溝通上面，我覺得應該是滿重要的一件事。"],["徐委員長佳青：確實。"],["沈委員伯洋：這簡單的建議，我就先跳過。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是，剛剛講的是中國在海外丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論，而它是針對臺灣，但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做，本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任，我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的，然後這個是中國針對印尼丟的一個虛假消息，而且他還用了我們臺灣我以前創意組織的logo，就是盜版的，然後這一個是中國在菲律賓跟馬來西亞做的，而他做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做，從頭到尾其實跟臺灣沒有什麼關係，但我在想的事情就是除了剛剛講的，如果我們能夠第一步先處理中國對臺灣的爭議消息的處理之外，如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們，中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息，我覺得更有助於拓展我們的同心圓，因為本來我們今天只是在照顧我們自己人，但這些人一定還是需要跟那一個國家的其他人交流，在交流的時候就一定需要一些可以談的話題，而這些話題因為是跟中國有關，臺灣是第一個作戰的前線，臺灣對這件事情比其他國家都更瞭解，所以我這邊有一個小小的建議，就是如果剛剛講的那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後，是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊？因為用這樣的方式，這一些臺灣的人民，或者說我們臺灣的僑胞在海外可以更深的跟當地連結，這個時候，如果等到之後國外媒體要去報導臺灣的時候，或者要報導中國的時候，第一個時間搞不好會想找到這群人，因為他知道這群人定期都有在回報這些東西，他對中國的手法非常瞭解，所以第一時間會諮詢他，而這個對我們臺灣人在海外能夠發聲的管道就會變多，所以這是一個簡單的建議，不曉得僑委會能不能夠有這樣一個規劃？"],["徐委員長佳青：非常感謝委員提供的建議，我覺得這是一個滿好的方向，不過現階段我真的是人力上也許……"],["沈委員伯洋：一步一步來。"],["徐委員長佳青：也許沒有辦法，但是我們會先針對幾個僑區，也許先在我們人手比較充裕的僑區優先來做這樣子的強化，看看這樣的效果是不是能夠適度，然後我們以後再擴大推廣。不過我們近年來有一個比較主動性的作法，就是我們隨時都會看全球一些針對假訊息如何預防或打擊的作業資訊彙整，也定期的會把這個再轉傳給包括透過LINE＠、透過我們各種網路通訊模式，讓我們的僑民可以掌握到，比方說我們會提醒他，在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民有往來，又因為語言上比較容易溝通，所以他很容易使用WeChat，WeChat的假訊息事實上就真的很多，所以我們都會事先告知用這個的時候會遇到什麼困難、個資會遇到什麼風險，像TikTok也是類似這樣，最近這兩天已經有公布TikTok確實每兩個禮拜會把使用的個資傳回他的母公司去。所以，類似這樣子的訊息，我們都會去提醒民眾，尤其是我們的海外僑民，告訴他們，你使用這個管道要有這樣子的一個心理準備。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝。因為臺灣有很多各式各樣非營利組織，當然國外也有，他們定期其實都有在整理中國的這些東西，當然比較快速的作法就是從他們的內容去做簡化，然後直接告訴其他海外的人民，他們的國民怎麼被攻擊。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，我們就是這樣做。"],["沈委員伯洋：這個我先跳過，因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了，這個最主要還是外交體系上的分工，因為剛剛我們問的一些事情，有一小部分其實也有問過外交部，所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做、哪個部分要僑委會做，有時候我覺得並不是很清楚，但是我覺得這個在之後再來說明就可以了。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們都是同樣的國家隊，所以我們互相分工合作。"],["沈委員伯洋：互補啦！但是有時候是怕重工而已。"],["徐委員長佳青：所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西，如果它已經講過了，我們有時候也會把它引到我們僑民的網絡系統裡面來。"],["沈委員伯洋：最後我想問的一個事情，跟剛剛其實有點類似，這個是我之前還在民間的時候，我們有在海外舉辦很多活動，我記得那一次委員長也有參加，就是在立陶宛那一次。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["沈委員伯洋：那一次我們有專門盤點，假設今天已經發生戰爭，海外的臺灣人到底能夠做什麼事？我相信很多海外臺灣人的愛國心，就像我剛剛講的，甚至可能比我們臺灣國內有些人還要強的時候，他可能很想要做什麼事，但這些事情如果我們是等到真的有發生一些危難的時候才去準備，一定會來不及！"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：這件事情的準備又變得很敏感，所以我們到底應該怎麼去鋪陳這個防衛上的準備，我覺得還滿重要的。左邊這邊就是當時有在想像，我們在海外每一個國家的僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組？譬如說，不管是情報的小組、外交的小組、媒體的小組、物資的小組、金流的小組，他們平常就要有一定程度的研究，他要知道如果今天臺灣發生什麼事情，第一時間能夠馬上幹麼，而且有時候這件事情3個小時、6個小時之內就要做好，如果在那個時候沒有做好，你等到一個禮拜以後再做，說真的，國際的風向可能已經沒有在臺灣這一邊了。左邊這一塊是我們當時盤點的，但是那時候是還在民間的時候做。現在我想要問，以後僑委會有沒有可能往這個方向規劃？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們在海外的人才真的是各種各樣都有，所以類似這樣的建議，其實我們過去兩、三年確實還真的主動從僑民跟榮譽職身上得知，因為他們主動跟我們說，也建議我們應該要這樣做，所以我們也從這些臺灣已經有的組織系統裡面，希望能夠分享經驗移植，海外有一個叫急難救助協會，我們先是做一些急難救助的系統，做一種訓練，希望能夠逐漸拓展。委員這些建議，我們希望以後也能夠向你們取經。謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：沒問題，就是急難救助相關的，要怎麼去expand，這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請羅美玲委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151351","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151351","tool":"pyannote","id":"151351-pyannote"},"job_id":"OpjpkmQ9razG4cbp","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 80.003, \"end\": 80.523, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"艦\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 80.523, \"end\": 81.003, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 81.003, \"end\": 81.484, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"雞\"}, {\"word\": \"蛋\", \"start\": 81.484, \"end\": 81.844, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 81.844, \"end\": 82.024, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 82.024, \"end\": 82.124, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 82.124, \"end\": 82.224, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 82.224, \"end\": 82.484, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 82.484, \"end\": 82.604, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 82.604, \"end\": 82.784, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 82.784, \"end\": 83.064, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 97.598, \"end\": 97.758, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 97.758, \"end\": 98.199, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 98.199, \"end\": 98.319, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 98.319, \"end\": 98.479, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 98.479, \"end\": 98.759, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 98.759, \"end\": 98.919, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 98.919, \"end\": 99.06, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 99.06, \"end\": 99.22, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 99.22, \"end\": 99.52, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 99.52, \"end\": 99.74, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 99.74, \"end\": 100.081, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 100.081, \"end\": 100.581, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 100.581, \"end\": 101.282, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.282, \"end\": 101.422, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 101.422, \"end\": 101.582, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 101.582, \"end\": 101.702, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.702, \"end\": 101.802, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 101.802, \"end\": 102.183, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 102.183, \"end\": 102.203, \"score\": 0.856}]}, {\"start\": 102.843, \"end\": 118.129, \"text\": \"海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 102.843, \"end\": 102.983, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 102.983, \"end\": 103.103, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.103, \"end\": 103.203, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 103.203, \"end\": 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這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦 因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情 有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做 哪個部分要僑委會做 有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 487.913, \"end\": 488.333, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 488.333, \"end\": 488.413, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 488.413, \"end\": 488.574, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 488.574, \"end\": 489.034, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 489.034, \"end\": 489.154, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 489.154, \"end\": 489.374, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 489.374, \"end\": 489.975, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 489.975, \"end\": 490.135, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 490.135, \"end\": 490.235, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 490.235, \"end\": 490.555, \"score\": 0.878}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,534 --> 00:00:12,923\n好謝謝主席那有請這個徐委員長謝謝請委員長\n\n2\n00:00:21,499 --> 00:00:41,600\n沈委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰\n\n3\n00:00:43,262 --> 00:00:53,292\n我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第4頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去\n\n4\n00:00:59,658 --> 00:01:23,084\n讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息\n\n5\n00:01:23,564 --> 00:01:42,203\n我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人\n\n6\n00:01:42,843 --> 00:01:58,129\n海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點\n\n7\n00:02:04,272 --> 00:02:18,764\n那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報啦那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以呢就是說會不會呢就是說在僑務電子報這邊呢有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的轉去的這種設計呢\n\n8\n00:02:24,108 --> 00:02:49,505\n好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行\n\n9\n00:02:51,306 --> 00:03:19,495\n對因為這個謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網\n\n10\n00:03:20,495 --> 00:03:21,739\n那他們就會有很多不同的區塊\n\n11\n00:03:22,915 --> 00:03:50,346\n那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情\n\n12\n00:04:15,115 --> 00:04:32,935\n這簡單的建議我先跳過了接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的\n\n13\n00:04:34,176 --> 00:04:40,918\n這是中國對印尼丟的虛假消息。這是中國在菲律賓和馬來西亞做的。但它做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾跟台灣沒有什麼關係。\n\n14\n00:04:55,121 --> 00:05:20,943\n但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流\n\n15\n00:05:21,443 --> 00:05:49,817\n在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以呢我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結\n\n16\n00:05:50,817 --> 00:06:13,713\n那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發生的管道就會變多了所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道我能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃\n\n17\n00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,580\n非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上也許一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在那個我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果\n\n18\n00:06:37,304 --> 00:06:37,524\n沈伯洋議員\n\n19\n00:07:07,424 --> 00:07:26,508\n掌握到,比方說我們會提醒他說,你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民往來,因為有語言上比較容易溝通,所以他很容易去用WeChat,那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多,所以我們都會事先的給一些,說你要用這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難,你的個資會遇到什麼風險,\n\n20\n00:07:29,349 --> 00:07:48,916\n那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你適用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備\n\n21\n00:07:51,527 --> 00:08:06,913\n因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織當然國外也有他們定期都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊我們就是這樣做\n\n22\n00:08:07,913 --> 00:08:23,085\n那這個我先跳過齁因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做哪個部分要僑委會做有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚\n\n23\n00:08:23,665 --> 00:08:37,171\n但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的僑民的網絡系統裡面來\n\n24\n00:08:40,612 --> 00:09:01,080\n那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心\n\n25\n00:09:01,980 --> 00:09:02,100\n沈伯洋\n\n26\n00:09:21,676 --> 00:09:45,128\n那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛\n\n27\n00:09:46,249 --> 00:10:07,002\n而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃\n\n28\n00:10:08,391 --> 00:10:08,672\n跟委員報告\n\n29\n00:10:23,131 --> 00:10:49,112\n我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10534\t12923\t好 謝謝主席 那有請這個徐委員長 謝謝請委員長\n21499\t41600\t沈委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰\n43262\t53292\t我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第4頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去\n59658\t83084\t讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息\n83564\t102203\t我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人\n102843\t118129\t海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點\n124272\t138764\t那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報啦那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以呢就是說會不會呢就是說在僑務電子報這邊呢有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的轉去的這種設計呢\n144108\t169505\t好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行\n171306\t199495\t對 因為這個 謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網\n200495\t201739\t那他們就會有很多不同的區塊\n202915\t230346\t那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情\n230606\t254394\t確實\n255115\t272935\t這簡單的建議我先跳過了接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的\n274176\t280918\t這是中國對印尼丟的虛假消息。這是中國在菲律賓和馬來西亞做的。但它做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾跟台灣沒有什麼關係。\n295121\t320943\t但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流\n321443\t349817\t在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以呢我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結\n350817\t373713\t那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發生的管道就會變多了所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道我能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃\n375839\t379580\t非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上也許一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在那個我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果\n397304\t397524\t沈伯洋議員\n427424\t446508\t掌握到,比方說我們會提醒他說,你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民往來,因為有語言上比較容易溝通,所以他很容易去用WeChat,那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多,所以我們都會事先的給一些,說你要用這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難,你的個資會遇到什麼風險,\n449349\t468916\t那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你適用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備\n471527\t486913\t因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織當然國外也有他們定期都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊我們就是這樣做\n487913\t503085\t那這個我先跳過齁 因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁 這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦 因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情 有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做 哪個部分要僑委會做 有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚\n503665\t517171\t但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的僑民的網絡系統裡面來\n520612\t541080\t那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心\n541980\t542100\t沈伯洋\n561676\t585128\t那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛\n586249\t607002\t而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃\n608391\t608672\t跟委員報告\n623131\t649112\t我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝主席\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請這個徐委員長 謝謝請委員長\n沈委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰\n我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第4頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去\n讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息\n我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人\n海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點\n那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報啦那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以呢就是說會不會呢就是說在僑務電子報這邊呢有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的轉去的這種設計呢\n好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行\n對 因為這個 謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網\n那他們就會有很多不同的區塊\n那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情\n確實\n這簡單的建議我先跳過了接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的\n這是中國對印尼丟的虛假消息。這是中國在菲律賓和馬來西亞做的。但它做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾跟台灣沒有什麼關係。\n但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流\n在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以呢我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結\n那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發生的管道就會變多了所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道我能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃\n非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上也許一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在那個我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果\n沈伯洋議員\n掌握到,比方說我們會提醒他說,你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民往來,因為有語言上比較容易溝通,所以他很容易去用WeChat,那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多,所以我們都會事先的給一些,說你要用這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難,你的個資會遇到什麼風險,\n那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你適用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備\n因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織當然國外也有他們定期都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊我們就是這樣做\n那這個我先跳過齁 因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁 這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦 因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情 有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做 哪個部分要僑委會做 有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚\n但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的僑民的網絡系統裡面來\n那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心\n沈伯洋\n那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛\n而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃\n跟委員報告\n我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.534 --> 00:12.923\n好謝謝主席那有請這個徐委員長謝謝請委員長\n\n00:21.499 --> 00:41.600\n沈委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰\n\n00:43.262 --> 00:53.292\n我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第4頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去\n\n00:59.658 --> 01:23.084\n讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息\n\n01:23.564 --> 01:42.203\n我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人\n\n01:42.843 --> 01:58.129\n海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點\n\n02:04.272 --> 02:18.764\n那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報啦那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以呢就是說會不會呢就是說在僑務電子報這邊呢有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的轉去的這種設計呢\n\n02:24.108 --> 02:49.505\n好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行\n\n02:51.306 --> 03:19.495\n對因為這個謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網\n\n03:20.495 --> 03:21.739\n那他們就會有很多不同的區塊\n\n03:22.915 --> 03:50.346\n那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情\n\n04:15.115 --> 04:32.935\n這簡單的建議我先跳過了接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的\n\n04:34.176 --> 04:40.918\n這是中國對印尼丟的虛假消息。這是中國在菲律賓和馬來西亞做的。但它做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾跟台灣沒有什麼關係。\n\n04:55.121 --> 05:20.943\n但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流\n\n05:21.443 --> 05:49.817\n在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以呢我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結\n\n05:50.817 --> 06:13.713\n那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發生的管道就會變多了所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道我能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃\n\n06:15.839 --> 06:19.580\n非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上也許一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在那個我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果\n\n06:37.304 --> 06:37.524\n沈伯洋議員\n\n07:07.424 --> 07:26.508\n掌握到,比方說我們會提醒他說,你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民往來,因為有語言上比較容易溝通,所以他很容易去用WeChat,那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多,所以我們都會事先的給一些,說你要用這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難,你的個資會遇到什麼風險,\n\n07:29.349 --> 07:48.916\n那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你適用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備\n\n07:51.527 --> 08:06.913\n因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織當然國外也有他們定期都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊我們就是這樣做\n\n08:07.913 --> 08:23.085\n那這個我先跳過齁因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做哪個部分要僑委會做有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚\n\n08:23.665 --> 08:37.171\n但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的僑民的網絡系統裡面來\n\n08:40.612 --> 09:01.080\n那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心\n\n09:01.980 --> 09:02.100\n沈伯洋\n\n09:21.676 --> 09:45.128\n那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛\n\n09:46.249 --> 10:07.002\n而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃\n\n10:08.391 --> 10:08.672\n跟委員報告\n\n10:23.131 --> 10:49.112\n我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.534,"end":12.923,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請這個徐委員長 謝謝請委員長"},{"start":21.499,"end":41.6,"text":"沈委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰"},{"start":43.262,"end":53.292,"text":"我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第4頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去"},{"start":59.658,"end":83.084,"text":"讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息"},{"start":83.564,"end":102.203,"text":"我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人"},{"start":102.843,"end":118.129,"text":"海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點"},{"start":124.272,"end":138.764,"text":"那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報啦那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以呢就是說會不會呢就是說在僑務電子報這邊呢有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的轉去的這種設計呢"},{"start":144.108,"end":169.505,"text":"好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行"},{"start":171.306,"end":199.495,"text":"對 因為這個 謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網"},{"start":200.495,"end":201.739,"text":"那他們就會有很多不同的區塊"},{"start":202.915,"end":230.346,"text":"那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情"},{"start":230.606,"end":254.394,"text":"確實"},{"start":255.115,"end":272.935,"text":"這簡單的建議我先跳過了接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的"},{"start":274.176,"end":280.918,"text":"這是中國對印尼丟的虛假消息。這是中國在菲律賓和馬來西亞做的。但它做的是在針對日本的核污水。簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾跟台灣沒有什麼關係。"},{"start":295.121,"end":320.943,"text":"但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流"},{"start":321.443,"end":349.817,"text":"在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以呢我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結"},{"start":350.817,"end":373.713,"text":"那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發生的管道就會變多了所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道我能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":375.839,"end":379.58,"text":"非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上也許一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在那個我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果"},{"start":397.304,"end":397.524,"text":"沈伯洋議員"},{"start":427.424,"end":446.508,"text":"掌握到,比方說我們會提醒他說,你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民往來,因為有語言上比較容易溝通,所以他很容易去用WeChat,那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多,所以我們都會事先的給一些,說你要用這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難,你的個資會遇到什麼風險,"},{"start":449.349,"end":468.916,"text":"那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你適用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備"},{"start":471.527,"end":486.913,"text":"因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織當然國外也有他們定期都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊我們就是這樣做"},{"start":487.913,"end":503.085,"text":"那這個我先跳過齁 因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁 這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦 因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情 有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做 哪個部分要僑委會做 有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚"},{"start":503.665,"end":517.171,"text":"但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的僑民的網絡系統裡面來"},{"start":520.612,"end":541.08,"text":"那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心"},{"start":541.98,"end":542.1,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":561.676,"end":585.128,"text":"那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛"},{"start":586.249,"end":607.002,"text":"而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃"},{"start":608.391,"end":608.672,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":623.131,"end":649.112,"text":"我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝主席"}]}}}}