{"id":151381,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151381","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4454f7dd0867128e8a204d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94983c546b407cade85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"10:08:58 - 10:22:43","影片長度":"00:13:45","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":825,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:22:43+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:08:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":612,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時9分）主席好，我想請一下王美花部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好。因為新內閣的經長人選已經出來了，所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次的對話機會，因為電的問題，坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的部分，415的時候一個大跳機的情況差點變成一個大跳電，大家都非常地緊繃。剛剛很多委員也都特別提到，4月16號桃園這邊，4月17號，包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有停電的情況，所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的。我想特別問一下，因為4月15號跳機事件之後，據說台電現在正在查當天的值班人員，到底誰把緊急、可能北區要規劃停電的訊息揭露，然後要查值班人員的手機，請問是不是有這樣的事情？"],["王部長美花：我沒有聽說。"],["王總經理耀庭：報告委員，我們沒有聽說這件事情。"],["鄭委員正鈐：沒有聽說這事情？我想特別問一下，因為大家都關心電的使用，沒有電、缺電的話現在大概做什麼都不行，所以電肯定非常重要，而我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題，包括我們在提整個能源政策，整個能源發電的配比等等問題，對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的。我看到了在4月15號之後，台電官網有提到我們的備轉容量率還是16.08%，非常的高，讓大家覺得非常的滿意，當然我也特別講，因為美花部長可能福氣也很大，因為15號沒有真的發生停電的情況，可是問題是當天中廣這邊就直接表示，我們的備轉容量率一度低到只剩2.8%，這是什麼情況，可不可以請總經理做個說明？"],["王總經理耀庭：向委員報告，其實15號當天早上我們8點就開會了，那時候開會主要是因為前一天（星期天）發生了另外一件，就是臺中的7號機也破管，那就是內傷，剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生，就在禮拜天發生了，然後和平的1號機就是靠近震央旁邊……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解！"],["王總經理耀庭：也都還是延遲修復，因為確實傷得太嚴重。"],["鄭委員正鈐：總經理，這個部分其實我們大概知道，可是我特別要提到的一個情況是，我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過明潭抽蓄水力發電去救急，結果後來發現明潭這邊也出問題，然後我看到一個很大的訊息是所有用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動，包括台積電，他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機，也在傍晚的時候都投入發電的情況，所以顯然現在整個臺灣的電的情況其實是有問題的。針對415的部分，我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告，請再跟本辦公室做報告。","接下來本席要珍惜跟美花部長對話的時間，我想問的是，因為我們今天在討論所有基金預算的時候，我們看到核能發電後端營運基金這邊出現一個狀況，那就是114年可能台電就不會再提撥。目前我看到預算書當中顯示，台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億，大概是這個數字，114年之後就沒有了，我想問一下，以目前整個核後基金的情況來看，它的資產到今年底的預計數大概是4,555億，至於放貸出去的金額，我查了到今年3月底大概是4,459億，也就是說錢全部都出去了，核後基金同時又放貸給了台電，然後又買了國庫的公債，這樣整個看下來，我們發現這個基金很好用，提撥之後，錢又繼續被台電用回去，然後再買了國庫的公債。針對這個部分，在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥，後續我們這個基金要如何去運作？"],["許副總經理永輝：跟委員報告，以目前來講，我們整個後端基金，因為依照109年的核定，總共提撥的總數要到4,786億，所以依照規定，我必須在114年，也就是2025年前必須要提足，所以剛剛委員有提到我每年要提撥216億，就是為了要把這個補足。"],["鄭委員正鈐：現在補得足嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：就是補……"],["鄭委員正鈐：補得足喔？"],["許副總經理永輝：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以114年之後就沒有每年再提撥216億嘛，對不對？"],["許副總經理永輝：但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。"],["許副總經理永輝：所以它是一個滾動檢討。"],["鄭委員正鈐：在這個檢討過程當中，有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的政策？如果延役之後就會繼續提補，這個基金就會繼續累積……"],["許副總經理永輝：正確。"],["鄭委員正鈐：有沒有可能這樣的情況？正確是表示有可能這樣的情況，是這樣子嗎？"],["許副總經理永輝：不是，因為延役部分還是會遇到一些問題啦，包括法規的問題，還包括一些技術的課題必須要考慮。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，針對這個部分，我們希望好好來做一個檢討，針對整個核能政策是不是延役的部分，我希望美花部長在您交棒之前也能夠給後續的新經長一些比較更具體的建議，我當然知道這是整個能源政策的問題，不過我相信這麼多年來，你也聽到了大家對於能源政策的檢討，我們希望能夠有一個很好的交棒。","接下來我想再問的是有關於推貿基金的部分，我們看到在推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息補助計畫，這個部分從107年到今年，今年的預算也是預計5億，可是每一年的執行數都是零，這就表示我們在這個部分做得很失敗，是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題，是需要再做進一步檢討的？可不可以請部長做個簡單說明？"],["王部長美花：是，這個部分我們確實希望能夠用所謂ODA的方式來跟相關國家合作，今年度我們已經有一個目標國，而且進展地比較具體，所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成形。"],["鄭委員正鈐：從107年到112年的執行數都是零，你覺得今年不會是零，你的意思是這樣子？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，我想請你們之後再到本辦來做更細部的報告，對於整個新南向政策當中目前執行的狀態，以及後續新的經長來了之後是不是繼續往下推，我們也希望針對這個部分做進一步的瞭解。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：最後，我要針對的是目前整個水資源作業基金的部分，因為水資源作業基金裡面針對觀光業務的部分有管了二個水庫，一個是石門水庫，一個是曾文水庫，然後它整個的收支狀況，從109年虧損三千七百多萬，一直到今年預計會虧損到5,500萬，整個情況是每況愈下，有沒有什麼樣的解決方法？"],["賴署長建信：謝謝委員指導，這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區工程，當然有一些影響觀光，至於委員提到的解決方法，第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作，然後另外一個部分是對於民眾可能會入園或是進到水庫的狀況，我舉一個例子，曾文水庫在過去一段時間是滿庫了，每一天的入園人數就會很多，這也會……"],["鄭委員正鈐：署長，這個就是我接下來要問的問題，我看了資料發現，目前所有水庫的主管單位非常多樣，有經濟部水利署管的、有台水管的、有台電管的、有台糖管的，還有農業部農水署管的，也有地方政府管的，非常非常的多，光是經濟部主管的就有58個水庫，這58個水庫的管理方式都不同，比方說日月潭水庫，如果民眾要去日月潭水庫，要先向交通部觀光局申請，再跟台電申請；如果是石門水庫的話，要向石門水庫管理中心申請；如果是明德水庫的話，要向農田水利署苗栗管理處申請，等等都不一樣。我要特別講的狀態是因為108年行政院有提出一個開放水域的政策，就像我們開放山林是要讓民眾能夠去享受山林一樣，開放水域也是希望讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的水資源，可是目前來看，每個單位的管理顯然是沒有統一一致的，所以本席希望至少在經濟部所屬的水庫主管機關，能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染水域活動採取更開放的心態，這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域，發展水庫的水域遊憩功能，也能夠增加水庫的收費，因為在前兩年的時候也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平臺，希望能夠開放水域，請問後來執行的狀態是怎麼樣，可不可以簡單回應一下？"],["賴署長建信：謝謝委員指導，我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則，事實上我們對於水庫的管理，經濟部有統一的法規──水庫蓄水範圍使用管理辦法，剛剛委員簡報表格中劃紅線的部分就是在這個法規裡面所規定的，當民眾或是團體有需要的話，就向劃紅線的水庫管理單位提出申請，所以這個申請的窗口會一致。但各個水庫因為效能不一樣，所以申請的對象會不一樣，到目前為止的話，我們不管是對於水庫周邊的觀光或是舉辦一些活動，像新竹寶二水庫也有辦過所謂的慢跑活動。"],["鄭委員正鈐：署長，理解，可是像我們新竹縣峨眉湖這邊，現在新竹縣就表示要回歸水利署去管理，新竹縣不管，這個部分我們之後再來討論。","最後剩下30秒的時間，我想向部長問一下水的問題，因為新竹這邊又缺水了，這次缺水的時間提早了一個月，對於缺水的狀態，之前在4月15號行政院長到石門水庫視察時表示，我們有一個石門水庫到新竹的聯通管計畫，預計每天可調度水量30萬噸，目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少，新竹寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少，這讓我們很擔心，整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常焦慮缺水的問題，請問有沒有個簡單的處理方式？請部長簡單回應一下。"],["王部長美花：其實除了桃園到新竹之外，我們還會有另外一個管線從臺北南勢溪這邊再增加相關的水源，每天可以供應桃園，這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南送，所以從臺北增加的這一條水管很重要，可以讓桃園再繼續往南供應到新竹。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為我昨天看到一個新聞是說，原本預計石門水庫每天可以支應新竹的水本來是10萬噸，現在變成5萬噸，我昨天聽到的是因為桃園本身也在缺水，可能就沒有辦法再支應了，我們希望針對水跟電的問題，經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思，做一個更好的交棒。"],["王部長美花：是，應該的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝部長。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請呂玉玲委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"id":"151381","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151381","tool":"pyannote","id":"151381-pyannote"},"job_id":"OfxdlhOU9dEjpr3V","queued_at":"2024-05-31 22:14:56","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 22:16:21","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151381"},{"time":"2024-05-31 22:16:22","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4454f7dd0867128e8a204d5d2f84b0f760628c3203c7b3963c8e2ce94d99c1cf0755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 22:16:46","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 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\"end\": 272.705, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.705, \"end\": 272.865, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 272.865, \"end\": 272.885, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 277.342, \"end\": 298.429, \"text\": \"資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 277.342, \"end\": 277.602, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 277.602, \"end\": 277.742, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 277.742, \"end\": 278.002, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 278.002, \"end\": 278.162, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.162, \"end\": 278.322, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 278.322, \"end\": 279.723, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 279.723, \"end\": 279.883, \"score\": 0.999}, 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 296.128, \"end\": 296.308, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"耗\", \"start\": 296.308, \"end\": 296.468, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 296.468, \"end\": 296.568, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 296.568, \"end\": 296.788, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 296.788, \"end\": 296.988, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 296.988, \"end\": 297.388, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 297.388, \"end\": 298.409, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 298.409, \"end\": 298.429, \"score\": 0.841}]}, {\"start\": 299.676, \"end\": 322.78, \"text\": \"放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 299.676, \"end\": 300.197, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 300.197, \"end\": 300.337, 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318.155, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 318.155, \"end\": 318.495, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 318.495, \"end\": 318.595, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 318.595, \"end\": 318.715, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 318.715, \"end\": 319.116, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 319.116, \"end\": 319.797, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 319.797, \"end\": 319.997, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 319.997, \"end\": 320.637, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 320.637, \"end\": 321.598, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 321.598, \"end\": 321.759, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 321.759, \"end\": 321.979, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 321.979, \"end\": 322.139, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 322.139, \"end\": 322.259, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 322.259, \"end\": 322.399, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 322.399, \"end\": 322.76, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 322.76, \"end\": 322.78, \"score\": 0.978}]}, {\"start\": 326.133, \"end\": 346.989, \"text\": \"各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 326.133, \"end\": 326.293, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 326.293, \"end\": 326.513, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 326.513, \"end\": 326.674, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 326.674, \"end\": 327.574, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 327.574, \"end\": 327.674, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 327.674, \"end\": 327.834, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 327.834, 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343.626, \"end\": 343.907, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 343.907, \"end\": 344.507, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 344.507, \"end\": 344.627, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 344.627, \"end\": 344.787, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 344.787, \"end\": 344.867, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 344.867, \"end\": 345.067, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 345.067, \"end\": 345.168, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 345.168, \"end\": 345.708, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 345.708, \"end\": 345.828, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 345.828, \"end\": 345.988, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 345.988, \"end\": 346.088, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 346.088, \"end\": 346.208, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 346.208, \"end\": 346.308, 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{\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 353.846, \"end\": 368.978, \"text\": \"補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 353.846, \"end\": 353.986, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 353.986, \"end\": 354.847, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 354.847, \"end\": 354.967, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 354.967, \"end\": 355.527, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 355.527, \"end\": 355.687, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 355.687, \"end\": 355.787, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 355.787, \"end\": 355.867, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 355.867, \"end\": 355.987, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 355.987, \"end\": 356.148, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 356.148, \"end\": 356.308, 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{\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 640.34, \"end\": 640.48, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 640.48, \"end\": 640.68, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 640.68, \"end\": 640.901, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 640.901, \"end\": 641.682, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 641.682, \"end\": 641.782, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 641.782, \"end\": 641.942, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 641.942, \"end\": 642.142, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 642.142, \"end\": 642.322, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 642.322, \"end\": 642.482, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 642.482, \"end\": 643.003, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 643.003, \"end\": 643.464, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 643.464, \"end\": 643.604, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 643.604, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 674.667, \"end\": 675.387, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 675.387, \"end\": 675.527, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 675.527, \"end\": 675.627, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 675.627, \"end\": 675.647, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 675.647, \"end\": 675.887, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 675.887, \"end\": 675.947, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 675.947, \"end\": 675.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 675.967, \"end\": 676.027, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 676.027, \"end\": 676.047, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 676.047, \"end\": 676.067, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 678.049, \"end\": 692.719, \"text\": \"謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 678.049, \"end\": 678.389, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 678.389, \"end\": 678.909, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 678.909, \"end\": 679.049, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 679.049, \"end\": 679.149, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 679.149, \"end\": 679.309, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 679.309, \"end\": 679.49, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 679.49, \"end\": 679.57, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 679.57, \"end\": 680.21, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 680.21, \"end\": 680.55, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 680.55, \"end\": 680.891, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 680.891, \"end\": 681.711, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 681.711, \"end\": 681.871, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 681.871, \"end\": 682.131, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 682.131, \"end\": 682.291, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 682.291, \"end\": 682.632, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 682.632, \"end\": 682.792, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 682.792, \"end\": 683.092, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 683.092, \"end\": 683.272, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 683.272, \"end\": 683.492, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 683.492, \"end\": 684.833, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 684.833, \"end\": 684.953, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 684.953, \"end\": 685.153, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 685.153, \"end\": 685.334, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 685.334, \"end\": 685.554, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 685.554, \"end\": 685.994, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"蓄\", \"start\": 685.994, \"end\": 686.154, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 686.154, \"end\": 686.594, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 686.594, \"end\": 686.714, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 686.714, \"end\": 686.875, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 686.875, \"end\": 687.015, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 687.015, \"end\": 687.395, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 687.395, \"end\": 687.955, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 687.955, \"end\": 688.496, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 688.496, \"end\": 688.836, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 688.836, \"end\": 689.676, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 689.676, \"end\": 689.917, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 689.917, \"end\": 690.817, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 690.817, \"end\": 691.017, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 691.017, \"end\": 691.137, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 691.137, \"end\": 691.278, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 691.278, \"end\": 691.518, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 691.518, \"end\": 691.678, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 691.678, \"end\": 691.778, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 691.778, \"end\": 692.198, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 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\"text\": \"新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 727.899, \"end\": 728.099, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 728.099, \"end\": 728.119, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 728.119, \"end\": 728.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 728.139, \"end\": 728.279, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 728.279, \"end\": 728.3, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 728.3, \"end\": 728.36, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 728.36, \"end\": 728.38, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 728.38, \"end\": 728.4, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 728.4, \"end\": 728.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 728.42, \"end\": 728.44, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 728.44, \"end\": 728.48, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 728.48, \"end\": 728.5, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 728.5, \"end\": 728.52, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 728.52, \"end\": 728.54, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 746.693, \"end\": 772.291, \"text\": \"石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"石\", \"start\": 746.693, \"end\": 746.933, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 746.933, \"end\": 747.574, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 747.574, \"end\": 747.734, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 747.734, \"end\": 747.954, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 747.954, \"end\": 748.354, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 748.354, \"end\": 748.614, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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\"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 758.481, \"end\": 758.641, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 758.641, \"end\": 758.781, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 758.781, \"end\": 759.042, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 759.042, \"end\": 759.602, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 759.602, \"end\": 760.222, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 760.222, \"end\": 760.423, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 760.423, \"end\": 761.523, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"寶\"}, {\"word\": \"山\", \"start\": 761.523, \"end\": 761.703, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 761.703, \"end\": 762.224, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"寶\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 762.224, \"end\": 762.364, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 762.364, \"end\": 762.644, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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0.89}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 767.287, \"end\": 767.447, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 767.447, \"end\": 767.567, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 767.567, \"end\": 767.868, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 767.868, \"end\": 767.988, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 767.988, \"end\": 768.068, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 768.068, \"end\": 768.148, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 768.148, \"end\": 768.288, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"焦\", \"start\": 768.288, \"end\": 768.668, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 768.668, \"end\": 768.888, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 768.888, \"end\": 769.008, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 769.008, \"end\": 769.649, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 769.649, \"end\": 769.729, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 769.729, \"end\": 769.869, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 769.869, \"end\": 769.989, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 769.989, \"end\": 770.309, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 770.309, \"end\": 770.63, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 770.63, \"end\": 770.79, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 770.79, \"end\": 771.01, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 771.01, \"end\": 771.19, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 771.19, \"end\": 771.45, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 771.45, \"end\": 771.67, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 771.67, \"end\": 771.971, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 771.971, \"end\": 772.091, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 772.091, \"end\": 772.271, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 772.271, \"end\": 772.291, \"score\": 0.017}]}, {\"start\": 772.711, \"end\": 776.095, \"text\": \"其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 772.711, \"end\": 772.731, \"score\": 0.343}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 772.731, \"end\": 772.811, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 772.811, \"end\": 772.831, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 772.831, \"end\": 772.851, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"桃\", \"start\": 772.851, \"end\": 772.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 772.871, \"end\": 772.911, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 772.911, \"end\": 772.931, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 772.931, \"end\": 772.951, \"score\": 0.0}, 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\"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 821.115, \"end\": 821.837, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 821.837, \"end\": 821.957, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 821.957, \"end\": 822.057, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 822.057, \"end\": 822.278, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 822.278, \"end\": 822.298, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:26,035\n請鄭正鈐委員請做詢答主席好,我想請到王美華部長我們再請王部長好,委員好部長好,因為新內閣的金掌人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會\n\n2\n00:00:28,682 --> 00:00:45,228\n因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃\n\n3\n00:00:46,528 --> 00:01:06,086\n那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說\n\n4\n00:01:10,149 --> 00:01:28,823\n據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說\n\n5\n00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:51,087\n報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源\n\n6\n00:01:52,107 --> 00:02:04,251\n發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為\n\n7\n00:02:14,568 --> 00:02:36,092\n美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請那個總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告\n\n8\n00:02:39,173 --> 00:03:05,318\n其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重\n\n9\n00:03:05,678 --> 00:03:21,412\n因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是\n\n10\n00:03:22,313 --> 00:03:37,946\n所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的\n\n11\n00:03:39,167 --> 00:04:00,640\n那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告再跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊\n\n12\n00:04:03,283 --> 00:04:09,992\n會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個\n\n13\n00:04:12,086 --> 00:04:32,885\n預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個\n\n14\n00:04:37,342 --> 00:04:58,429\n資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又\n\n15\n00:04:59,676 --> 00:05:22,780\n放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作\n\n16\n00:05:26,133 --> 00:05:46,989\n各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足\n\n17\n00:05:52,144 --> 00:05:53,846\n現在補得足嗎?\n\n18\n00:05:53,846 --> 00:06:08,978\n補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?\n\n19\n00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:28,190\n有沒有可能這樣的情況?正確是表示有可能這樣的情況,是這樣子嗎?言語的部分你還是要遇到一些問題,包括法規的問題還有包括一些技術的課題必須要課那我想說針對這個部分的時候,我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下\n\n20\n00:06:30,272 --> 00:06:42,231\n針對整個核能的政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是\n\n21\n00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:43,200\n有關於\n\n22\n00:07:00,427 --> 00:07:25,590\n推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零\n\n23\n00:07:26,811 --> 00:07:52,373\n就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做個簡單說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體\n\n24\n00:07:53,274 --> 00:08:21,974\n所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是\n\n25\n00:08:22,694 --> 00:08:44,078\n好那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫一個是曾文水庫然後呢它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到\n\n26\n00:08:49,919 --> 00:09:15,140\n今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾\n\n27\n00:09:16,721 --> 00:09:44,840\n可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子曾文水庫在過去的一段時間他滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有\n\n28\n00:09:46,801 --> 00:10:09,755\n農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、觀光局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟\n\n29\n00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:38,038\n什麽時候管理中心申請民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢就是每個單位都非常的\n\n30\n00:10:38,618 --> 00:10:53,435\n管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候希望\n\n31\n00:10:53,735 --> 00:11:16,067\n能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n32\n00:11:18,049 --> 00:11:32,719\n謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面\n\n33\n00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:50,238\n當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊\n\n34\n00:11:51,499 --> 00:11:52,240\n新竹縣鵝媒湖\n\n35\n00:12:07,899 --> 00:12:08,540\n新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候\n\n36\n00:12:26,693 --> 00:12:52,291\n石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下\n\n37\n00:12:52,711 --> 00:12:56,095\n其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的\n\n38\n00:13:11,192 --> 00:13:39,291\n這條水管很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這一邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒\n\n39\n00:13:39,671 --> 00:13:42,298\n是是是應該的是謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t26035\t請鄭正鈐委員請做詢答主席好,我想請到王美華部長我們再請王部長好,委員好部長好,因為新內閣的金掌人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會\n28682\t45228\t因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃\n46528\t66086\t那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說\n70149\t88823\t據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說\n90841\t111087\t報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源\n112107\t124251\t發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為\n134568\t156092\t美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請那個總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告\n159173\t185318\t其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重\n185678\t201412\t因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是\n202313\t217946\t所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的\n219167\t240640\t那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告再跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊\n243283\t249992\t會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個\n252086\t272885\t預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個\n277342\t298429\t資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又\n299676\t322780\t放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作\n326133\t346989\t各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足\n352144\t353846\t現在補得足嗎?\n353846\t368978\t補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?\n372000\t388190\t有沒有可能這樣的情況?正確是表示有可能這樣的情況,是這樣子嗎?言語的部分你還是要遇到一些問題,包括法規的問題還有包括一些技術的課題必須要課那我想說針對這個部分的時候,我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下\n390272\t402231\t針對整個核能的政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是\n403080\t403200\t有關於\n420427\t445590\t推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零\n446811\t472373\t就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做個簡單說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體\n473274\t501974\t所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是\n502694\t524078\t好 那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫 一個是曾文水庫然後呢 它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到\n529919\t555140\t今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是 謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾\n556721\t584840\t可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子曾文水庫在過去的一段時間他滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有\n586801\t609755\t農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、觀光局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟\n610916\t638038\t什麽時候管理中心申請民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢就是每個單位都非常的\n638618\t653435\t管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候希望\n653735\t676067\t能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下\n678049\t692719\t謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面\n693679\t710238\t當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊\n711499\t712240\t新竹縣鵝媒湖\n727899\t728540\t新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候\n746693\t772291\t石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下\n772711\t776095\t其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的\n791192\t819291\t這條水管很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這一邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒\n819671\t822298\t是是是應該的是謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員\n","txt":"請鄭正鈐委員請做詢答主席好,我想請到王美華部長我們再請王部長好,委員好部長好,因為新內閣的金掌人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會\n因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃\n那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說\n據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說\n報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源\n發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為\n美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請那個總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告\n其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重\n因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是\n所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的\n那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告再跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊\n會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個\n預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個\n資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又\n放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作\n各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足\n現在補得足嗎?\n補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?\n有沒有可能這樣的情況?正確是表示有可能這樣的情況,是這樣子嗎?言語的部分你還是要遇到一些問題,包括法規的問題還有包括一些技術的課題必須要課那我想說針對這個部分的時候,我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下\n針對整個核能的政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是\n有關於\n推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零\n就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做個簡單說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體\n所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是\n好 那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫 一個是曾文水庫然後呢 它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到\n今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是 謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾\n可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子曾文水庫在過去的一段時間他滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有\n農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、觀光局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟\n什麽時候管理中心申請民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢就是每個單位都非常的\n管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候希望\n能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下\n謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面\n當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊\n新竹縣鵝媒湖\n新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候\n石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下\n其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的\n這條水管很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這一邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒\n是是是應該的是謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:26.035\n請鄭正鈐委員請做詢答主席好,我想請到王美華部長我們再請王部長好,委員好部長好,因為新內閣的金掌人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會\n\n00:28.682 --> 00:45.228\n因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃\n\n00:46.528 --> 01:06.086\n那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說\n\n01:10.149 --> 01:28.823\n據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說\n\n01:30.841 --> 01:51.087\n報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源\n\n01:52.107 --> 02:04.251\n發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為\n\n02:14.568 --> 02:36.092\n美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請那個總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告\n\n02:39.173 --> 03:05.318\n其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重\n\n03:05.678 --> 03:21.412\n因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是\n\n03:22.313 --> 03:37.946\n所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的\n\n03:39.167 --> 04:00.640\n那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告再跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊\n\n04:03.283 --> 04:09.992\n會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個\n\n04:12.086 --> 04:32.885\n預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個\n\n04:37.342 --> 04:58.429\n資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又\n\n04:59.676 --> 05:22.780\n放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作\n\n05:26.133 --> 05:46.989\n各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足\n\n05:52.144 --> 05:53.846\n現在補得足嗎?\n\n05:53.846 --> 06:08.978\n補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?\n\n06:12.000 --> 06:28.190\n有沒有可能這樣的情況?正確是表示有可能這樣的情況,是這樣子嗎?言語的部分你還是要遇到一些問題,包括法規的問題還有包括一些技術的課題必須要課那我想說針對這個部分的時候,我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下\n\n06:30.272 --> 06:42.231\n針對整個核能的政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是\n\n06:43.080 --> 06:43.200\n有關於\n\n07:00.427 --> 07:25.590\n推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零\n\n07:26.811 --> 07:52.373\n就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做個簡單說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體\n\n07:53.274 --> 08:21.974\n所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是\n\n08:22.694 --> 08:44.078\n好那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫一個是曾文水庫然後呢它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到\n\n08:49.919 --> 09:15.140\n今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾\n\n09:16.721 --> 09:44.840\n可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子曾文水庫在過去的一段時間他滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有\n\n09:46.801 --> 10:09.755\n農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、觀光局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟\n\n10:10.916 --> 10:38.038\n什麽時候管理中心申請民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢就是每個單位都非常的\n\n10:38.618 --> 10:53.435\n管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候希望\n\n10:53.735 --> 11:16.067\n能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n11:18.049 --> 11:32.719\n謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面\n\n11:33.679 --> 11:50.238\n當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊\n\n11:51.499 --> 11:52.240\n新竹縣鵝媒湖\n\n12:07.899 --> 12:08.540\n新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候\n\n12:26.693 --> 12:52.291\n石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下\n\n12:52.711 --> 12:56.095\n其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的\n\n13:11.192 --> 13:39.291\n這條水管很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這一邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒\n\n13:39.671 --> 13:42.298\n是是是應該的是謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":26.035,"text":"請鄭正鈐委員請做詢答主席好,我想請到王美華部長我們再請王部長好,委員好部長好,因為新內閣的金掌人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會"},{"start":28.682,"end":45.228,"text":"因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃"},{"start":46.528,"end":66.086,"text":"那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說"},{"start":70.149,"end":88.823,"text":"據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說"},{"start":90.841,"end":111.087,"text":"報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源"},{"start":112.107,"end":124.251,"text":"發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為"},{"start":134.568,"end":156.092,"text":"美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請那個總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告"},{"start":159.173,"end":185.318,"text":"其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重"},{"start":185.678,"end":201.412,"text":"因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是"},{"start":202.313,"end":217.946,"text":"所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的"},{"start":219.167,"end":240.64,"text":"那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告再跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊"},{"start":243.283,"end":249.992,"text":"會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個"},{"start":252.086,"end":272.885,"text":"預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個"},{"start":277.342,"end":298.429,"text":"資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是他整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又"},{"start":299.676,"end":322.78,"text":"放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作"},{"start":326.133,"end":346.989,"text":"各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足"},{"start":352.144,"end":353.846,"text":"現在補得足嗎?"},{"start":353.846,"end":368.978,"text":"補得足所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嗎?但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積?"},{"start":372,"end":388.19,"text":"有沒有可能這樣的情況?正確是表示有可能這樣的情況,是這樣子嗎?言語的部分你還是要遇到一些問題,包括法規的問題還有包括一些技術的課題必須要課那我想說針對這個部分的時候,我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下"},{"start":390.272,"end":402.231,"text":"針對整個核能的政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是"},{"start":403.08,"end":403.2,"text":"有關於"},{"start":420.427,"end":445.59,"text":"推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零"},{"start":446.811,"end":472.373,"text":"就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做個簡單說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體"},{"start":473.274,"end":501.974,"text":"所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是"},{"start":502.694,"end":524.078,"text":"好 那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫 一個是曾文水庫然後呢 它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到"},{"start":529.919,"end":555.14,"text":"今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是 謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾"},{"start":556.721,"end":584.84,"text":"可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子曾文水庫在過去的一段時間他滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有"},{"start":586.801,"end":609.755,"text":"農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、觀光局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟"},{"start":610.916,"end":638.038,"text":"什麽時候管理中心申請民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受臺灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢就是每個單位都非常的"},{"start":638.618,"end":653.435,"text":"管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候希望"},{"start":653.735,"end":676.067,"text":"能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":678.049,"end":692.719,"text":"謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則那事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面"},{"start":693.679,"end":710.238,"text":"當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊"},{"start":711.499,"end":712.24,"text":"新竹縣鵝媒湖"},{"start":727.899,"end":728.54,"text":"新竹缺水缺水的狀態的時候之前4月15號的時候"},{"start":746.693,"end":772.291,"text":"石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的供水計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊大家又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":772.711,"end":776.095,"text":"其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的"},{"start":791.192,"end":819.291,"text":"這條水管很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這一邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒"},{"start":819.671,"end":822.298,"text":"是是是應該的是謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員"}]}}}}