{"id":151392,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151392","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4459b43915926616cbb8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c947082a9d1d9fc83395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"09:58:28 - 10:05:42","影片長度":"00:07:14","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 34.698, \"end\": 34.978, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 34.978, \"end\": 35.058, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 35.058, \"end\": 35.218, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 35.218, \"end\": 36.139, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 36.139, \"end\": 37.819, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 37.819, \"end\": 37.939, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 37.939, \"end\": 38.459, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"鄉\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 38.459, \"end\": 39.059, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"D\", \"start\": 39.059, \"end\": 39.399, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 39.399, \"end\": 39.539, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"住\", 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\"那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 230.993, \"end\": 231.173, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 231.173, \"end\": 231.373, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 231.373, \"end\": 231.553, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 231.553, \"end\": 231.773, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 231.773, \"end\": 232.054, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 232.054, \"end\": 232.194, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 232.194, \"end\": 232.694, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 232.694, \"end\": 232.874, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 232.874, \"end\": 232.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 232.894, \"end\": 233.214, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 233.214, \"end\": 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259.428, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 259.428, \"end\": 259.829, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 259.829, \"end\": 259.849, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 260.689, \"end\": 278.861, \"text\": \"也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 260.689, \"end\": 260.809, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 260.809, \"end\": 260.949, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 260.949, \"end\": 261.309, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 261.309, \"end\": 261.51, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 261.51, \"end\": 261.75, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 261.75, \"end\": 262.17, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 262.17, \"end\": 262.61, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 262.61, \"end\": 262.79, 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{\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 265.873, \"end\": 266.093, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 266.093, \"end\": 266.313, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 266.313, \"end\": 266.533, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 266.533, \"end\": 266.693, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 266.693, \"end\": 267.454, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 267.454, \"end\": 267.714, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 267.714, \"end\": 268.434, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 268.434, \"end\": 268.695, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 268.695, \"end\": 269.035, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 269.035, \"end\": 269.235, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 269.235, \"end\": 269.715, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 269.715, \"end\": 270.075, \"score\": 0.919}, 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\"反\", \"start\": 277.02, \"end\": 277.16, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 277.16, \"end\": 277.28, \"score\": 0.641}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 277.28, \"end\": 277.42, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 277.42, \"end\": 277.741, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 277.741, \"end\": 277.881, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 277.881, \"end\": 278.101, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 278.101, \"end\": 278.221, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 278.221, \"end\": 278.321, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 278.321, \"end\": 278.341, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 278.341, \"end\": 278.361, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 278.361, \"end\": 278.381, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 278.381, \"end\": 278.401, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 278.401, \"end\": 278.521, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 278.521, \"end\": 278.541, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 278.541, \"end\": 278.561, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 278.561, \"end\": 278.581, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 278.581, \"end\": 278.601, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 278.601, \"end\": 278.661, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 278.661, \"end\": 278.761, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.761, \"end\": 278.781, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 278.781, \"end\": 278.801, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 278.801, \"end\": 278.841, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.841, \"end\": 278.861, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 285.779, \"end\": 308.125, \"text\": \"他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 285.779, 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00:00:30,746\n好謝謝主席我們請次長我也是好好次長好今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下\n\n2\n00:00:34,698 --> 00:00:54,884\n委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題\n\n3\n00:00:57,606 --> 00:01:10,602\n當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員\n\n4\n00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:33,464\n是的這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願\n\n5\n00:01:34,784 --> 00:01:58,682\n當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。\n\n6\n00:02:03,175 --> 00:02:24,324\n這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下\n\n7\n00:02:25,184 --> 00:02:40,612\n法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點\n\n8\n00:02:45,558 --> 00:02:46,379\n那你們支持嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:05,117 --> 00:03:33,362\n我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的\n\n10\n00:03:34,022 --> 00:03:45,530\n那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題\n\n11\n00:03:50,993 --> 00:04:19,849\n那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席\n\n12\n00:04:20,689 --> 00:04:38,861\n也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的\n\n13\n00:04:45,779 --> 00:05:08,125\n他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修\n\n14\n00:05:09,264 --> 00:05:38,625\n如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是\n\n15\n00:05:39,045 --> 00:05:49,014\n是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎\n\n16\n00:05:50,073 --> 00:06:15,834\n是這個我尊重我們尊重委員的意見對所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為\n\n17\n00:06:17,145 --> 00:06:30,228\n我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?\n\n18\n00:06:31,348 --> 00:06:58,667\n那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道\n\n19\n00:06:59,605 --> 00:07:06,552\n我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5336\t30746\t好 謝謝主席 我們請次長我也是好好 次長好 今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下\n34698\t54884\t委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題\n57606\t70602\t當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員\n71590\t93464\t是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願\n94784\t118682\t當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。\n123175\t144324\t這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下\n145184\t160612\t法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點\n165558\t166379\t那你們支持嗎?\n185117\t213362\t我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的\n214022\t225530\t那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題\n230993\t259849\t那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席\n260689\t278861\t也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的\n285779\t308125\t他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修\n309264\t338625\t如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是\n339045\t349014\t是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎\n350073\t375834\t是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為\n377145\t390228\t我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?\n391348\t418667\t那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道\n419605\t426552\t我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請次長我也是好好 次長好 今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下\n委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題\n當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員\n是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願\n當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。\n這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下\n法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點\n那你們支持嗎?\n我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的\n那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題\n那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席\n也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的\n他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修\n如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是\n是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎\n是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為\n我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?\n那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道\n我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.336 --> 00:30.746\n好謝謝主席我們請次長我也是好好次長好今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下\n\n00:34.698 --> 00:54.884\n委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題\n\n00:57.606 --> 01:10.602\n當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員\n\n01:11.590 --> 01:33.464\n是的這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願\n\n01:34.784 --> 01:58.682\n當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。\n\n02:03.175 --> 02:24.324\n這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下\n\n02:25.184 --> 02:40.612\n法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點\n\n02:45.558 --> 02:46.379\n那你們支持嗎?\n\n03:05.117 --> 03:33.362\n我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的\n\n03:34.022 --> 03:45.530\n那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題\n\n03:50.993 --> 04:19.849\n那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席\n\n04:20.689 --> 04:38.861\n也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的\n\n04:45.779 --> 05:08.125\n他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修\n\n05:09.264 --> 05:38.625\n如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是\n\n05:39.045 --> 05:49.014\n是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎\n\n05:50.073 --> 06:15.834\n是這個我尊重我們尊重委員的意見對所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為\n\n06:17.145 --> 06:30.228\n我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?\n\n06:31.348 --> 06:58.667\n那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道\n\n06:59.605 --> 07:06.552\n我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.336,"end":30.746,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請次長我也是好好 次長好 今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下"},{"start":34.698,"end":54.884,"text":"委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題"},{"start":57.606,"end":70.602,"text":"當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員"},{"start":71.59,"end":93.464,"text":"是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願"},{"start":94.784,"end":118.682,"text":"當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。"},{"start":123.175,"end":144.324,"text":"這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下"},{"start":145.184,"end":160.612,"text":"法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點"},{"start":165.558,"end":166.379,"text":"那你們支持嗎?"},{"start":185.117,"end":213.362,"text":"我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的"},{"start":214.022,"end":225.53,"text":"那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題"},{"start":230.993,"end":259.849,"text":"那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席"},{"start":260.689,"end":278.861,"text":"也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的"},{"start":285.779,"end":308.125,"text":"他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修"},{"start":309.264,"end":338.625,"text":"如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是"},{"start":339.045,"end":349.014,"text":"是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎"},{"start":350.073,"end":375.834,"text":"是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為"},{"start":377.145,"end":390.228,"text":"我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?"},{"start":391.348,"end":418.667,"text":"那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道"},{"start":419.605,"end":426.552,"text":"我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員"}]}}}}