{"id":151406,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151406","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44592659e727b6d7dbecc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94327cb1eca87a0d4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:35:58 - 10:48:44","影片長度":"00:12:46","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":766,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:48:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:35:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（10時35分）你好，請委員長。"],["主席：有請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：陳委員，早安。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長早。委員長，我想請教一下，我們現在講的僑務工作，僑民現在是用華僑還是臺僑作為區分？"],["徐委員長佳青：事實上，我們服務的僑民包括有從中華民國臺灣領過護照的人，我們稱為臺僑，還有早期就已經移民到海外，可能一百多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人，這些人我們就稱他是華僑，所以在我們服務的僑民裡面當然有包含不同的成分。但是我們有不同的親疏遠近，以我們目前的預算結構和規模來說，核心是以臺僑團體作為優先，以及臺僑的子女二代、三代親人跟周邊友好的社團，這些傳統僑社都是我們的核心範圍，然後才逐漸往外擴大，雖然號稱有5,000萬的僑胞，但事實上，我們的服務是有不同的親疏遠近。"],["陳委員冠廷：這些老僑、老華僑有些是來自廣東，有些是來自中國的不同省分。"],["徐委員長佳青：福建。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們認同的對象有的是中華民國，有的是中華民國臺灣，有的是臺灣，所以對這些所謂的僑民，剛剛說你們的服務是有所分別、有所不同的，但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針？"],["徐委員長佳青：其實不同的僑團也會有不一樣的需求，我們所有海外的僑團有一個核心的概念，這些僑團都是登記在當地國的政府組織、NGO，我們作為一個外國的單位，我們是去輔導，並不能干涉他們的自主性組織，在這個核心概念裡面，事實上，我們是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務，希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候，我們有一點輔助或者派我們的僑務工作人員、秘書去參與，或者是提供他們一些資訊資料，比方我們的僑教就提供我們的教材，或者是他們的老師希望能夠培訓，我們就給他們做線上培訓或實質培訓，在傳統僑社我們也有做，在我們的臺僑社團裡面也都有做。以密集度來講，當然是臺僑社團的密集度高很多，跟我們長期都在密集聯繫，所以確實有其差異性。因為傳統僑社已經移民很久了，所以可能到了第六代，第七代，他們也已經是在地，所以其實他認同的國家如果在美國就是美國，他的認同國家如果是加拿大就是加拿大，但是他的文化上面來源會有一些不同的組成，所以我們是在這種文化層次上面，大家去做一些合作。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長，我講這些問題其實不是要區別對待，而是在於把各個不同的來源是什麼、來由是什麼，因為其實用「僑」這個字，我還要特別再去查僑委會的定義等等。我為什麼講這些，在美國的第二代、第三代、第四代，甚至在那幾代之後，對於中華人民共和國的認同，其實是隨著時間不斷地在下降，特別是在美國的話，對這個認同會有一些疑惑，甚至有些是困擾，剛好因為中國在近幾年來戰狼的一些作法。"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的。"],["陳委員冠廷：我沒有再問這個問題。我認為對於這一些人是可以開拓的，不管他們的第一代、第二代可能是來自中國，可能是來自中國反對共產黨的人到美國去，或是第一代對中國有浪漫的幻想，後來沒有的，或是因為他們的第二代、第三代受過美國的教育之後，對於中國文化、中華文化是有興趣的，但不代表認同他們的體制，這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象，所以我覺得先把定義定義好。但是定義完之後，對資源分配有優先次序，我覺得這是很好的，其實服務不是區別對待，而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的作法，不同作法對臺灣當然會有更好的幫助。","我之前有跟僑委會索資，我們看到榮譽職人數和平均年齡的統計，對此，我們認為這些都是社會中堅人士，當然對我們的僑務會有所幫助，可是我看到僑務委員的平均年齡大概都是65歲、66歲以上；至於僑務顧問和僑務促進委員，僑務促進委員有稍微年輕一點，我主張針對青年的部分，特別是年輕的朋友，也可以類似像這樣設立一個榮譽職。因為我們要經營的其實是年輕世代，年輕世代才能夠去開拓新局，才可以去開拓我們的可能性，特別是這些用社群平臺能夠影響的對象會更多。","以前去參與美國一些僑會的節慶慶典，我們發現某種程度他們講的話，我們也聽不太懂，因為有些是講廣東話。"],["徐委員長佳青：當地語言。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們的文化跟我們有一些世代隔閡，包含他們的年齡也跟我們有世代隔閡，那時候我還在求學階段，我們希望接觸的對象其實是第二代、第三代的臺僑，或者是第二代、第三代某種程度是認同我們的文化或自由民主，華僑也可以，可是這種機會其實相對的比較少。所以如果這樣的僑務榮譽職能夠再增設，其實榮譽職也沒有所謂的預算問題，增設青年的部分，來去協助這樣的一些活動建置的話，包含體育活動、包含文化活動，特別是我們臺灣其他不同的，包含原住民族或者各個不同的縣市，它有獨特文化的東西，來去加強我們的認同，我想對於我們的僑民都是會有幫助的。其實也是雙向的，除了服務僑民之外，特別是這幾年臺灣的國際地位不斷地在增高，有些僑民其實對臺灣也是會有一些想法，所以我認為這些部分是可以一起努力的。"],["徐委員長佳青：確實。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長，我現在談一下，最近新加坡的研究所有做民調，我們來看一下這個圖表，委員長，你看完這個圖表有什麼看法？就是針對越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同，這個部分你怎麼看？特別在東南亞。"],["徐委員長佳青：這個是針對馬來西亞華裔人口的統計。"],["陳委員冠廷：可以先看左邊，再看右邊。"],["徐委員長佳青：左邊就是馬來西亞僑民的部分嘛？"],["陳委員冠廷：不是僑民，我們先看左邊，先看各個國家對中國或者是對美國的認同，包含僑民，就是他們整體國民的民調，你先看一下左邊，你有什麼看法？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，因為我……"],["陳委員冠廷：沒有關係，這沒有正確答案，無所謂。"],["徐委員長佳青：因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼，所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做……"],["陳委員冠廷：沒關係，基本上就是說在東南亞國家對……"],["徐委員長佳青：東協國家，這都是東協國家。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，這些國家對於中國的認同，其實比較起美國的話，它是有在增高的趨勢，所以我認為僑務工作當然對我們來講是越來越……","因為自由民主國家是比較親美或者是比較親歐等等，但是同時中國在這些東南亞的國家，它的影響力是日漸增高，日漸增高來講的話，也就是說華僑或者是臺僑對中國認同的可能性也是慢慢地增高。我想請教一下委員長，針對這一些可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看，你有什麼樣的作法？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，其實看到這個統計資料我不意外，我覺得倒還滿吻合，因為它是問東協的這些國家，分別對中國跟美國的一些看法。可以看得出來加入美國聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯，這裡面跟它的國家歷史的發展、民主體制的成熟度，其實都有一定的關聯。中國當然在這十多年來，一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力，這樣的趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的，尤其馬來西亞是最明顯的。我可以這樣說，2000年以前，中華民國在馬來西亞相對的華裔人口裡面認同度是高的；可是這20年來，中國是用大量的金錢砸到馬來西亞去，所以這當中也發生一些趨勢上的變化，現在隨著經濟局勢的轉變，我們也希望能夠再扭轉回來。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝委員長，我最後強調一下，根據2022年的統計年報，馬來西亞的華人有688萬人，在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人，資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下，因為畢竟中國的規模跟臺灣的規模是不同的，所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入，然後全力的推展來跟中國對抗，我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的。但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面哪一些會更認同臺灣，透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些校友會也好，我記得馬來西亞在臺灣有59個校友會，所以你可以運用這樣的基礎、這樣的資料來去開拓可能性，他們可能不見得是臺灣的第二代、第三代，他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份，移民到馬來西亞……"],["徐委員長佳青：是，很多從潮州……"],["陳委員冠廷：對，有可能嘛！可是他們可能對臺灣是有認同的，因為已經太多代了，他們不見得會認同這個……"],["徐委員長佳青：留臺的大部分僑生對臺灣認同度都很高。"],["陳委員冠廷：對啊！可是……"],["徐委員長佳青：可是他們的家人或者沒有來留臺的這些同儕就不見得是這樣，所以我們確實是要強化。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以說他們可能不是那8萬人，他們可能是剩下的那六百多萬人，沒有歸屬在那8萬人，但是他們有這些留臺的經驗，或者是他們的這些同儕都有的話，這些是可以考慮去推廣的部分。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，我的時間已經到了，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝陳委員，我們會強化在榮譽職年輕化的部分，謝謝。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["主席（馬委員文君）：謝謝陳委員的發言。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151406","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151406","tool":"pyannote","id":"151406-pyannote"},"job_id":"74xiNaObA8OkFYX1","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 462.336, \"end\": 462.676, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 462.676, \"end\": 462.876, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 462.876, \"end\": 463.396, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 463.396, \"end\": 463.537, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 463.537, \"end\": 463.837, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 463.837, \"end\": 467.558, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 467.558, \"end\": 467.718, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 467.718, \"end\": 467.858, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 467.858, \"end\": 468.118, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 468.118, \"end\": 468.238, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 468.238, \"end\": 468.338, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"民\", 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 473.066, \"end\": 473.086, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 473.086, \"end\": 473.106, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 473.106, \"end\": 473.186, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.186, \"end\": 473.366, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"裔\", \"start\": 473.366, \"end\": 473.486, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 473.486, \"end\": 473.646, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 473.646, \"end\": 473.666, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.666, \"end\": 473.686, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}]}, {\"start\": 483.27, \"end\": 501.975, \"text\": \"我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 483.27, \"end\": 483.43, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 483.43, \"end\": 483.53, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 483.53, \"end\": 483.61, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 483.61, \"end\": 483.77, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 483.77, \"end\": 483.95, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 483.95, \"end\": 484.29, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 484.29, \"end\": 484.43, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 484.43, \"end\": 484.63, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"右\", \"start\": 484.63, \"end\": 485.111, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 485.111, \"end\": 485.231, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 485.231, \"end\": 485.351, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 495.973, \"end\": 496.173, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 496.173, \"end\": 496.714, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 496.714, \"end\": 497.054, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 497.054, \"end\": 497.194, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 497.194, \"end\": 497.594, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"僑\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 497.594, \"end\": 497.794, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 497.794, \"end\": 497.914, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 497.914, \"end\": 498.134, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 498.134, \"end\": 498.294, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 498.294, \"end\": 498.474, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 498.474, \"end\": 498.574, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 498.574, \"end\": 498.834, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 498.834, \"end\": 499.154, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 499.154, \"end\": 499.614, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 499.614, \"end\": 499.754, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 499.754, \"end\": 499.834, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 499.834, \"end\": 500.134, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 500.134, \"end\": 500.254, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 500.254, \"end\": 500.415, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 500.415, \"end\": 500.555, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 500.555, \"end\": 500.635, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 500.635, \"end\": 500.835, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 500.835, \"end\": 501.015, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 501.015, \"end\": 501.395, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 501.395, \"end\": 501.515, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 501.515, \"end\": 501.755, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 501.755, \"end\": 501.955, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 501.955, \"end\": 501.975, \"score\": 0.105}]}, {\"start\": 504.952, \"end\": 520.428, \"text\": \"委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 504.952, \"end\": 505.212, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 505.212, \"end\": 505.532, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.532, \"end\": 506.253, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 506.253, \"end\": 506.333, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 506.333, \"end\": 506.693, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 506.693, \"end\": 506.793, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 506.793, \"end\": 507.014, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 507.014, \"end\": 507.274, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 507.274, \"end\": 507.374, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 507.374, \"end\": 507.654, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 507.654, \"end\": 507.814, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 507.814, \"end\": 509.216, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 509.216, \"end\": 509.376, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 509.376, \"end\": 509.476, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 509.476, \"end\": 509.576, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 509.576, \"end\": 509.676, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 509.676, \"end\": 510.517, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 510.517, \"end\": 510.697, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 510.697, \"end\": 510.898, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 510.898, \"end\": 511.138, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 511.138, \"end\": 511.578, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 511.578, \"end\": 511.839, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 511.839, \"end\": 512.539, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 512.539, \"end\": 512.72, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 512.72, \"end\": 513.32, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 513.32, \"end\": 513.64, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 513.64, \"end\": 514.081, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 514.081, \"end\": 515.643, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 515.643, \"end\": 516.163, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 516.163, \"end\": 516.503, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 516.503, \"end\": 516.764, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 516.764, \"end\": 516.944, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 516.944, \"end\": 517.164, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 517.164, \"end\": 517.404, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 517.404, \"end\": 517.545, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 517.545, \"end\": 517.745, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 517.745, \"end\": 518.225, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 518.225, \"end\": 518.345, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 518.345, \"end\": 518.465, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 518.465, \"end\": 518.666, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 518.666, \"end\": 518.786, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 518.786, \"end\": 519.527, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 519.527, \"end\": 519.827, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 519.827, \"end\": 520.387, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 520.387, \"end\": 520.407, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 520.407, \"end\": 520.428, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 523.33, \"end\": 545.451, \"text\": \"這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 523.33, \"end\": 523.591, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 523.591, \"end\": 524.071, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 524.071, \"end\": 525.332, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 525.332, \"end\": 525.693, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 525.693, \"end\": 526.073, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 526.073, \"end\": 526.433, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 526.433, \"end\": 526.654, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 526.654, \"end\": 527.374, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 527.374, \"end\": 527.594, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 527.594, \"end\": 528.075, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 528.075, \"end\": 528.495, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 528.495, \"end\": 528.936, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 528.936, \"end\": 529.096, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 529.096, \"end\": 529.176, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 529.176, \"end\": 529.296, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 529.296, \"end\": 529.496, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 529.496, \"end\": 529.757, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 529.757, \"end\": 529.937, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 529.937, \"end\": 530.057, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 530.057, \"end\": 530.277, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 530.277, \"end\": 531.438, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 531.438, \"end\": 531.859, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 531.859, \"end\": 532.299, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 532.299, \"end\": 533.24, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"僑\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 533.24, \"end\": 533.56, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 533.56, \"end\": 533.94, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 533.94, \"end\": 534.181, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": 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\"較\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 538.545, \"end\": 538.645, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 538.645, \"end\": 538.725, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 538.725, \"end\": 538.845, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 538.845, \"end\": 539.206, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 539.206, \"end\": 539.426, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.426, \"end\": 539.626, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 539.626, \"end\": 539.806, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 539.806, \"end\": 540.807, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 540.807, \"end\": 541.127, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 541.127, \"end\": 541.528, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"親\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 541.528, \"end\": 541.708, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 541.708, \"end\": 541.808, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 541.808, \"end\": 541.888, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 541.888, \"end\": 541.968, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 541.968, \"end\": 542.389, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"親\"}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 542.389, \"end\": 542.609, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 542.609, \"end\": 542.769, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 542.769, \"end\": 543.57, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 543.57, \"end\": 543.71, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 543.71, \"end\": 543.91, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 543.91, \"end\": 544.19, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 544.19, \"end\": 544.37, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 544.37, \"end\": 544.471, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 544.471, \"end\": 544.791, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 544.791, \"end\": 544.991, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 544.991, \"end\": 545.411, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 545.411, \"end\": 545.431, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 545.431, \"end\": 545.451, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 547.253, \"end\": 566.961, \"text\": \"他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 547.253, \"end\": 547.413, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 547.413, \"end\": 547.553, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 547.553, \"end\": 547.913, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 547.913, \"end\": 548.053, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 548.053, \"end\": 548.213, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": 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00:00:03,012\n你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從\n\n2\n00:00:28,137 --> 00:00:42,638\n中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑\n\n3\n00:00:44,140 --> 00:00:47,081\n所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的\n\n4\n00:01:12,665 --> 00:01:12,705\n﹚陳冠廷\n\n5\n00:01:24,926 --> 00:01:42,047\n那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣\n\n6\n00:01:42,748 --> 00:01:54,498\n有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針\n\n7\n00:01:55,872 --> 00:02:08,040\n其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織\n\n8\n00:02:17,967 --> 00:02:25,293\n所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦\n\n9\n00:02:36,041 --> 00:02:36,181\n陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷\n\n10\n00:03:04,229 --> 00:03:29,682\n密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作\n\n11\n00:03:30,612 --> 00:03:55,348\n委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後\n\n12\n00:03:55,888 --> 00:03:57,831\n跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法\n\n13\n00:04:14,832 --> 00:04:37,078\n我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的\n\n14\n00:04:37,278 --> 00:05:05,133\n或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法\n\n15\n00:05:05,493 --> 00:05:05,593\n陳冠廷\n\n16\n00:05:22,248 --> 00:05:36,388\n對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上\n\n17\n00:05:39,768 --> 00:06:07,160\n僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會\n\n18\n00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:08,760\n陳冠廷\n\n19\n00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:38,580\n陳冠廷\n\n20\n00:07:29,512 --> 00:07:51,099\n委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看\n\n21\n00:07:53,066 --> 00:07:53,686\n這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計\n\n22\n00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:21,975\n我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法\n\n23\n00:08:24,952 --> 00:08:40,428\n委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家\n\n24\n00:08:43,330 --> 00:09:05,451\n這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家\n\n25\n00:09:07,253 --> 00:09:26,961\n他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法\n\n26\n00:09:27,781 --> 00:09:33,326\n委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯\n\n27\n00:09:54,244 --> 00:09:56,506\n中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞\n\n28\n00:10:12,841 --> 00:10:12,981\n陳冠廷\n\n29\n00:10:30,738 --> 00:10:49,766\n謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的\n\n30\n00:10:50,253 --> 00:11:03,813\n所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面\n\n31\n00:11:06,296 --> 00:11:35,318\n哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的\n\n32\n00:11:35,478 --> 00:11:49,383\n因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化\n\n33\n00:11:51,624 --> 00:11:52,104\n許曉欣委員上台質詢\n\n34\n00:12:26,386 --> 00:12:29,390\n徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t3012\t你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從\n28137\t42638\t中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑\n44140\t47081\t所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的\n72665\t72705\t﹚陳冠廷\n84926\t102047\t那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣\n102748\t114498\t有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針\n115872\t128040\t其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織\n137967\t145293\t所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦\n156041\t156181\t陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷\n184229\t209682\t密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作\n210612\t235348\t委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後\n235888\t237831\t跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法\n254832\t277078\t我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的\n277278\t305133\t或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法\n305493\t305593\t陳冠廷\n322248\t336388\t對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上\n339768\t367160\t僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會\n368300\t368760\t陳冠廷\n398340\t398580\t陳冠廷\n423968\t449172\t確實﹖\n449512\t471099\t委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看\n473066\t473686\t這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計\n483270\t501975\t我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法\n504952\t520428\t委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家\n523330\t545451\t這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家\n547253\t566961\t他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法\n567781\t573326\t委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯\n594244\t596506\t中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞\n612841\t612981\t陳冠廷\n630738\t649766\t謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的\n650253\t663813\t所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面\n666296\t695318\t哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的\n695478\t709383\t因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化\n711624\t712104\t許曉欣委員上台質詢\n746386\t749390\t徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經\n","txt":"你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從\n中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑\n所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的\n﹚陳冠廷\n那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣\n有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針\n其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織\n所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦\n陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷\n密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作\n委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後\n跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法\n我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的\n或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法\n陳冠廷\n對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上\n僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會\n陳冠廷\n陳冠廷\n確實﹖\n委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看\n這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計\n我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法\n委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家\n這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家\n他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法\n委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯\n中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞\n陳冠廷\n謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的\n所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面\n哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的\n因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化\n許曉欣委員上台質詢\n徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:03.012\n你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從\n\n00:28.137 --> 00:42.638\n中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑\n\n00:44.140 --> 00:47.081\n所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的\n\n01:12.665 --> 01:12.705\n﹚陳冠廷\n\n01:24.926 --> 01:42.047\n那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣\n\n01:42.748 --> 01:54.498\n有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針\n\n01:55.872 --> 02:08.040\n其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織\n\n02:17.967 --> 02:25.293\n所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦\n\n02:36.041 --> 02:36.181\n陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷\n\n03:04.229 --> 03:29.682\n密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作\n\n03:30.612 --> 03:55.348\n委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後\n\n03:55.888 --> 03:57.831\n跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法\n\n04:14.832 --> 04:37.078\n我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的\n\n04:37.278 --> 05:05.133\n或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法\n\n05:05.493 --> 05:05.593\n陳冠廷\n\n05:22.248 --> 05:36.388\n對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上\n\n05:39.768 --> 06:07.160\n僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會\n\n06:08.300 --> 06:08.760\n陳冠廷\n\n06:38.340 --> 06:38.580\n陳冠廷\n\n07:29.512 --> 07:51.099\n委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看\n\n07:53.066 --> 07:53.686\n這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計\n\n08:03.270 --> 08:21.975\n我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法\n\n08:24.952 --> 08:40.428\n委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家\n\n08:43.330 --> 09:05.451\n這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家\n\n09:07.253 --> 09:26.961\n他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法\n\n09:27.781 --> 09:33.326\n委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯\n\n09:54.244 --> 09:56.506\n中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞\n\n10:12.841 --> 10:12.981\n陳冠廷\n\n10:30.738 --> 10:49.766\n謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的\n\n10:50.253 --> 11:03.813\n所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面\n\n11:06.296 --> 11:35.318\n哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的\n\n11:35.478 --> 11:49.383\n因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化\n\n11:51.624 --> 11:52.104\n許曉欣委員上台質詢\n\n12:26.386 --> 12:29.390\n徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":3.012,"text":"你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從"},{"start":28.137,"end":42.638,"text":"中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑"},{"start":44.14,"end":47.081,"text":"所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的"},{"start":72.665,"end":72.705,"text":"﹚陳冠廷"},{"start":84.926,"end":102.047,"text":"那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣"},{"start":102.748,"end":114.498,"text":"有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針"},{"start":115.872,"end":128.04,"text":"其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織"},{"start":137.967,"end":145.293,"text":"所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦"},{"start":156.041,"end":156.181,"text":"陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷"},{"start":184.229,"end":209.682,"text":"密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作"},{"start":210.612,"end":235.348,"text":"委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後"},{"start":235.888,"end":237.831,"text":"跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法"},{"start":254.832,"end":277.078,"text":"我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的"},{"start":277.278,"end":305.133,"text":"或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法"},{"start":305.493,"end":305.593,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":322.248,"end":336.388,"text":"對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上"},{"start":339.768,"end":367.16,"text":"僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會"},{"start":368.3,"end":368.76,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":398.34,"end":398.58,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":423.968,"end":449.172,"text":"確實﹖"},{"start":449.512,"end":471.099,"text":"委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看"},{"start":473.066,"end":473.686,"text":"這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計"},{"start":483.27,"end":501.975,"text":"我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法"},{"start":504.952,"end":520.428,"text":"委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家"},{"start":523.33,"end":545.451,"text":"這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家"},{"start":547.253,"end":566.961,"text":"他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法"},{"start":567.781,"end":573.326,"text":"委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯"},{"start":594.244,"end":596.506,"text":"中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞"},{"start":612.841,"end":612.981,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":630.738,"end":649.766,"text":"謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的"},{"start":650.253,"end":663.813,"text":"所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面"},{"start":666.296,"end":695.318,"text":"哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的"},{"start":695.478,"end":709.383,"text":"因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化"},{"start":711.624,"end":712.104,"text":"許曉欣委員上台質詢"},{"start":746.386,"end":749.39,"text":"徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經"}]}}}}