{"id":151428,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151428","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44549db048d5bb0bbc50525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c943d1a61e1783180a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:32:58 - 11:43:37","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":639,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:43:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:32:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時33分）謝謝主席！我們請黃主委。"],["主席（黃委員珊珊代）：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["李委員坤城：主委好！因為我是今年2月才當選立委，所以過去跟你共事的時間其實也不久，不過在就任這兩個多月以來，得知業界對你的風評都很不錯，但是也都普遍認為主委比較偏向監督管理這方面，對於興利這方面好像做得比較少，不曉得主委對於外界這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我通常都是謙虛、公開，就是大家的指教我們就虛心接受。不過我跟委員報告，我從上任以來，每一年新春記者會都有列下來幾個面向和幾十項、上百項我們推動的措施，我想記者朋友很清楚，我們去看看這裡面難道真的只有限制，沒有開放、沒有興利嗎？我個人覺得這樣的評論不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相宜。"],["李委員坤城：所以對於這樣的評論你不服氣就對了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我不想說不服氣，我虛心接受，但是我覺得……"],["李委員坤城：那能不能請主委稍微談一下，你認為在你任內在興利這部分做得比較好的大概是哪些？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這要看你怎麼定義興利。"],["李委員坤城：就主委來看嘛。"],["黃主任委員天牧：比方說在雲端委外方面，我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施，從核准制變成以風險為基礎的備查制，這個大幅的讓業者將來不論是在資訊的安全或是業務的發展上都有很大的空間。"],["李委員坤城：除了監督管理之外，許多業者當然也希望我們能在興利這部分可以做得更多。我是今年2月才上任，其實也不太清楚過去主委對於興利的部分做了哪些，可是因為你可以在任4年，我相信在管理跟興利這方面其實應該都有在做，不然也不會說你是目前為止任期最長的金管會主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：不過還是請委員給我一點時間，對於外界對我們的任何指教，包括是不是過於保守或是只重監理不重發展興利，我都虛心接受，因為公務員、政務官本來就是要接受大家的批評跟指教，我只有不斷的努力，我沒有意思要去辯駁。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說如果有做的話，其實外界的感受要更深才對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我講一句話，我從上任以來，已經把93年金管會成立前20年所有的法規廢掉了八千多件，但是沒有人會知道，可是那就是我們要做的扎根的工作。"],["李委員坤城：廢掉八千多件是……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們對金管會成立以前這八千多個法規進行檢討。"],["李委員坤城：那些是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：不是，我們去檢討這些法規還需不需要用，不需要的就把它廢掉下架，減少業者的法遵成本。"],["李委員坤城：當然我是希望既然有做就要讓大家知道，因為不是只有你個人，這也包含顯示我們政府在做。現在要講興利，其實我記得前幾個禮拜也在講，就是希望我們的壽險業者能夠回來投資，我們的壽險業者對外投資很多，但是參與國內的公共建設其實比較少。今天我們談的這個REITs也是一樣，REITs的概念就是除了讓我們投資者更有機會來參與公共建設的成長，也希望能夠吸引資金回來臺灣投資或是加速投資臺灣的公共建設，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是的。"],["李委員坤城：同樣的，我要問誘因的部分夠不夠？我們前幾個禮拜也講到，要有什麼樣的誘因讓壽險業者回來投資臺灣的公共建設，因為去到國外的投資比例跟投資在臺灣的比例差太多。我們今天談這個REITs，那到底REITs有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者願意來投資？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個是一個封閉型基金，基本上對小額投資人而言是適合去投資的，那當然因為它是證券化的商品又有穩定的現金流量，也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司投資。"],["李委員坤城：就一般投資者來講，他可以透過REITs去投資臺灣的一些房地產，我們也希望有更多的REITs成立之後，對於臺灣的公共建設，他也能夠去投資，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是公共建設必須要有穩定的現金流量和一定的期間。"],["李委員坤城：我們的不動產投資信託現在大概只有6家，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大概6、7家左右。"],["李委員坤城：6家啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：6、7檔。"],["李委員坤城：對，6、7檔，這個也很久了，為什麼這麼少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就相對來講，這些發行機構比較沒有強烈的積極性去增加它下面發行的……"],["李委員坤城：對啊！我的意思是說今天我們修正過相關條例之後，我們的REITs相關的這些基金會增加嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們當然預期如此，剛才召委也特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標，如果通過之後我們預期可能產生多少的基金和規模，我們會再去估算。"],["李委員坤城：所以有哪些指標嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔，約七百多億，將來如果這個法案通過之後，預期第一年可能會有多少基金募集，可以募集多少金額，可能就從這方面去估計。"],["李委員坤城：你們有概算過嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：當年是有一些估算，但是不是很精確啦，剛才郭召委有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下。"],["李委員坤城：這個其實上一屆也有提出來，因為屆期不續審，所以今年再度提出。我的意思是如果要有這個誘因的話，我不知道你們的誘因在哪裡，能夠讓目前只有6檔的基金，在相關條例修改之後，願意去投資臺灣的公共建設。請問這個誘因在哪裡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，因為以前是信託型的，銀行藉著信託去做的，它的管理機構是間接委託，現在改成投信兼營或是專營的不動產投資信託基金，跟其他國家的組織架構是相同的，它更專業，感覺上應該是更積極，所以才要引入基金型的這個機制。"],["李委員坤城：過去REITs的平均殖利率大概是2.22%到3.29%之間，算是穩定，可是交易量非常的少。就你們的經驗來講，殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力？相關條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個市場的機制我不敢妄言，不過當然大家希望比一般的存款利率要高，因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的，所以收益高可是要安全。"],["李委員坤城：是啊！沒有錯，但是你也要有誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：誘因就是我們的機制上要對投資人保護，比方說他的投資標的一定比例是有固定收益來源的期間，這個部分在整個的法案中就是在建構一個有利於投資人保護的機制，讓投資人覺得投資這個放心，又有一定程度的報酬率。"],["李委員坤城：條例的第四十九條之十三提到本條文生效日起算十年內，買賣不動產投資信託基金受益憑證，停徵證券交易稅，有這個規定對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，這也要謝謝財政部的支持。"],["李委員坤城：但是不動產證券化條例第四十九條的規定是免徵耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為現在的納保法規定沒有辦法永久，一定要定一個期間。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說就我來看，它的誘因跟不動產證券化條例的精神應該是一樣的，如果這樣子的話，是不是能夠跟不動產證券化條例一樣直接免徵就好了，不用規定只有10年期間，等10年之後再來看一下要怎麼樣決定？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個部分可由宋署長跟您報告。"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，因為納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的，新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定實施年限，由於本法是定在納稅者權利保護法生效之後，所以必須要照相關的法律規定來辦理，因此一定要定實施期限，就不能用免徵，要用停徵的方式。"],["李委員坤城：意思是說這個不動產證券化條例的規定，是因為你剛才講的之前就通過的那個規定？"],["宋署長秀玲：對，那是之前就通過的。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在就是10年要檢討一次？"],["宋署長秀玲：是。"],["李委員坤城：這個有規定就對了？"],["宋署長秀玲：對，這是有法律規定的。"],["李委員坤城：我想說如果精神是一致的話，何以我們的不動產證券化規定的是免徵而這個條例裡面卻變成10年之後再討論。"],["宋署長秀玲：委員的觀察非常敏銳，它的差距就是因為這樣的緣故。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝主委！謝謝署長！"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們接下來請王世堅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"id":"151428","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151428","tool":"pyannote","id":"151428-pyannote"},"job_id":"39rok5rUuLWKDOLq","queued_at":"2024-05-31 21:37:30","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 21:37:30","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151428"},{"time":"2024-05-31 21:37:30","msg":"downloading 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\"五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 338.001, \"end\": 338.121, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 338.121, \"end\": 338.241, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 338.241, \"end\": 338.481, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 338.481, \"end\": 338.661, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 338.661, \"end\": 338.841, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 338.841, \"end\": 338.901, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 338.901, \"end\": 339.081, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 339.081, \"end\": 339.241, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"政\", 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\"我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 523.257, \"end\": 523.677, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 523.677, \"end\": 523.998, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 523.998, \"end\": 524.758, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 524.758, \"end\": 525.039, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 525.039, \"end\": 527.18, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 527.18, \"end\": 527.321, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 527.321, \"end\": 527.421, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 527.421, \"end\": 528.001, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": 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\"因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 552.149, \"end\": 552.329, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 552.329, \"end\": 552.569, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 552.569, \"end\": 553.63, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 553.63, \"end\": 553.89, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 553.89, \"end\": 554.05, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 554.05, \"end\": 554.15, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 554.15, \"end\": 554.27, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 554.27, \"end\": 554.39, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 554.39, \"end\": 554.81, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 554.81, \"end\": 554.99, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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\"委\", \"start\": 635.788, \"end\": 635.808, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 635.808, \"end\": 635.828, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,497 --> 00:00:12,618\n謝謝主席我們請黃主委\n\n2\n00:00:25,453 --> 00:00:25,593\n李卓人議員\n\n3\n00:00:43,785 --> 00:00:55,850\n檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎\n\n4\n00:00:57,596 --> 00:01:01,380\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告\n\n5\n00:01:18,537 --> 00:01:40,311\n難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?\n\n6\n00:01:41,667 --> 00:02:09,963\n我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個\n\n7\n00:02:11,864 --> 00:02:38,361\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊\n\n8\n00:02:40,902 --> 00:02:43,244\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?\n\n9\n00:03:08,841 --> 00:03:34,138\n金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本\n\n10\n00:03:35,638 --> 00:04:00,540\n現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣\n\n11\n00:04:01,681 --> 00:04:01,781\n是的。\n\n12\n00:04:22,604 --> 00:04:46,402\n那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資\n\n13\n00:04:49,513 --> 00:05:14,249\n這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產\n\n14\n00:05:15,418 --> 00:05:20,042\n但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對\n\n15\n00:05:38,001 --> 00:05:56,288\n五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國\n\n16\n00:06:07,984 --> 00:06:22,809\n我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎\n\n17\n00:06:25,287 --> 00:06:38,616\n指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎\n\n18\n00:06:40,621 --> 00:07:08,971\n當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後\n\n19\n00:07:09,611 --> 00:07:24,838\n一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國\n\n20\n00:07:39,457 --> 00:08:02,919\n過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?\n\n21\n00:08:04,178 --> 00:08:23,007\n我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊\n\n22\n00:08:23,687 --> 00:08:24,707\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案\n\n23\n00:08:43,257 --> 00:09:01,032\n我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵\n\n24\n00:09:12,149 --> 00:09:39,778\n因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定\n\n25\n00:09:40,711 --> 00:10:06,462\n委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式\n\n26\n00:10:07,102 --> 00:10:31,837\n那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒\n\n27\n00:10:32,859 --> 00:10:35,828\n是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11497\t12618\t謝謝主席我們請黃主委\n25453\t25593\t李卓人議員\n43785\t55850\t檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎\n57596\t61380\t二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告\n78537\t100311\t難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?\n101667\t129963\t我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個\n131864\t158361\t三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊\n160902\t163244\t三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?\n188841\t214138\t金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本\n215638\t240540\t現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣\n241681\t241781\t是的。\n262604\t286402\t那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資\n289513\t314249\t這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產\n315418\t320042\t但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對\n338001\t356288\t五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國\n367984\t382809\t我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎\n385287\t398616\t指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎\n400621\t428971\t當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後\n429611\t444838\t一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國\n459457\t482919\t過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?\n484178\t503007\t我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊\n503687\t504707\t二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案\n523257\t541032\t我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵\n552149\t579778\t因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定\n580711\t606462\t委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式\n607102\t631837\t那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒\n632859\t635828\t是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請黃主委\n李卓人議員\n檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告\n難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?\n我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?\n金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本\n現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣\n是的。\n那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資\n這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產\n但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對\n五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國\n我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎\n指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎\n當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後\n一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國\n過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?\n我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案\n我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵\n因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定\n委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式\n那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒\n是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.497 --> 00:12.618\n謝謝主席我們請黃主委\n\n00:25.453 --> 00:25.593\n李卓人議員\n\n00:43.785 --> 00:55.850\n檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎\n\n00:57.596 --> 01:01.380\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告\n\n01:18.537 --> 01:40.311\n難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?\n\n01:41.667 --> 02:09.963\n我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個\n\n02:11.864 --> 02:38.361\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊\n\n02:40.902 --> 02:43.244\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?\n\n03:08.841 --> 03:34.138\n金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本\n\n03:35.638 --> 04:00.540\n現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣\n\n04:01.681 --> 04:01.781\n是的。\n\n04:22.604 --> 04:46.402\n那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資\n\n04:49.513 --> 05:14.249\n這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產\n\n05:15.418 --> 05:20.042\n但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對\n\n05:38.001 --> 05:56.288\n五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國\n\n06:07.984 --> 06:22.809\n我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎\n\n06:25.287 --> 06:38.616\n指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎\n\n06:40.621 --> 07:08.971\n當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後\n\n07:09.611 --> 07:24.838\n一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國\n\n07:39.457 --> 08:02.919\n過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?\n\n08:04.178 --> 08:23.007\n我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊\n\n08:23.687 --> 08:24.707\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案\n\n08:43.257 --> 09:01.032\n我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵\n\n09:12.149 --> 09:39.778\n因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定\n\n09:40.711 --> 10:06.462\n委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式\n\n10:07.102 --> 10:31.837\n那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒\n\n10:32.859 --> 10:35.828\n是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.497,"end":12.618,"text":"謝謝主席我們請黃主委"},{"start":25.453,"end":25.593,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":43.785,"end":55.85,"text":"檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎"},{"start":57.596,"end":61.38,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":78.537,"end":100.311,"text":"難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?"},{"start":101.667,"end":129.963,"text":"我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個"},{"start":131.864,"end":158.361,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊"},{"start":160.902,"end":163.244,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?"},{"start":188.841,"end":214.138,"text":"金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本"},{"start":215.638,"end":240.54,"text":"現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣"},{"start":241.681,"end":241.781,"text":"是的。"},{"start":262.604,"end":286.402,"text":"那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資"},{"start":289.513,"end":314.249,"text":"這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產"},{"start":315.418,"end":320.042,"text":"但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對"},{"start":338.001,"end":356.288,"text":"五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國"},{"start":367.984,"end":382.809,"text":"我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎"},{"start":385.287,"end":398.616,"text":"指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎"},{"start":400.621,"end":428.971,"text":"當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後"},{"start":429.611,"end":444.838,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":459.457,"end":482.919,"text":"過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?"},{"start":484.178,"end":503.007,"text":"我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊"},{"start":503.687,"end":504.707,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":523.257,"end":541.032,"text":"我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵"},{"start":552.149,"end":579.778,"text":"因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定"},{"start":580.711,"end":606.462,"text":"委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式"},{"start":607.102,"end":631.837,"text":"那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒"},{"start":632.859,"end":635.828,"text":"是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。"}]}}}}