{"id":151432,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151432","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445e6692ed9b84f74d157f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c9444fa94be23543b065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:45:05 - 11:50:59","影片長度":"00:05:54","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":354,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:50:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:45:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":626,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時45分）謝謝主席，請教育部政次，謝謝。"],["主席：請次長，質詢時間為4分鐘，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：次長，今天早上也有委員提到體育署升格的問題，有人嫌慢、有人希望你們能加速腳步，雖然只剩下一個多月的時間，你認為可不可行？"],["劉次長孟奇：如果先行研議的話，我們的體育署就先行，到時候可能就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們不要隨便聽啦！我告訴你，國民黨每個人講的都不一樣，重大政策在做的時候，有的在院會質詢時告訴你，陳建仁現在是看守階段，重大政策不能亂做！在委員會又告訴你，不然這段時間你們要幹什麼？我們要讓體育署升格，本席表達贊同，而且大家都很期待、也倡議了那麼久，但是涉及組織的改造及程序一定要審慎。倉促的去做升格，如果組織及文化思維沒有改變，沒有什麼重大的意義，本席是這樣想啦！我也不認為你們在一個月的時間能將這個案子弄得出來，涉及到整個行政院的決策、有幾個部會，組織法都規定得很清楚。倒是我要來請教署長，二週前4月3日委員會請署長來做專報的時候，包括本席在內的許多委員都希望趕快啟動團體協約的草擬，當天也簡單的與署長針對勞動法進行意見交換。很多委員提出要體育署在半年內草擬一份公版給各協會，嚴格來講，本席認為團體協約未必正確啦！在團體協約第二條明確的規定，本法所稱的團體協約是指雇主或有法人資格的雇主團體，按照工會法或成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約，而協會與工會不是屬於法人資格的雇主團體。從實務面來看，籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的會員，而會員本身就有一些權利義務存在，尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的參與。這個部分與主流國家，包括歐洲，其實是一致的，但是，如果要與協會簽署團體協約的話，又會違反了團體協約法。很多人就會有疑問，為什麼棒球可以？我的意思是棒球團體協約的簽約主體是職棒聯盟與球員工會，職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主，棒協與職棒聯盟又沒有所謂會員的關係，而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議，才會有後續的組訓賽由職棒負責，以及與國際棒總溝通交流的是棒協，是不是這樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：現在要解決籃球的部分，國家隊的組訓賽是由籃球協會負責，但協會本身又沒辦法與球員工會簽署團體協約，你走棒球模式的話，現在國內有3個聯盟，意見又很難統合，所以本席與一些勞動法的專家進行過意見交流，在此提供一個新的概念給體育署，署長，回去再找各協會來處理。既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙，我們就換個模式，由體育署主動邀集籃協與國內的各聯盟、工會討論，簽署一個框架或協定，無論是意向書或什麼名字都好，但這個框架其實就是一個團體協約的內容，把所有的權利義務都規範在內，包括出場費及保險都寫在裡面。之後球員參加國家隊、球員接受徵召前都與籃協簽好參賽協議，而參賽協議中所有國家隊的權利義務都走這樣的框架，一來可以解決團體協議的限制事項、二來可以解決協會與各聯盟之間的問題。請教署長，你認為這樣可行嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，你講的沒有錯，我覺得就是以一個國家隊的框架，按照委員剛剛的建議進行，事實上，我們已經要求籃協明天提出一個初步的版本，希望在月底之前能有一個明確的解決……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣不是只剩下幾天而已！上次你告訴我要半年，我要求你一個月，但是照你現在的講法，這個月底就出來囉！"],["鄭署長世忠：不是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我給你拍手囉！"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們是說在這段時間請它盡快坐下來談，所以要有一個初步的版本出來。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我問的也是柯志恩召委曾經關心的事情啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：是，但這個過程還是需要時間談判，只是……"],["莊委員瑞雄：需要多久？你說就好，多久？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們希望半年內一定要……"],["莊委員瑞雄：不要啦！你每次都說要半年，一個月啦！我們這次弄一下，好嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這是牽涉到雙方能不能負擔，我們已經主動要求期程了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：盡快一個月達成，好不好？好的意見真的要去做，大家都很關心，好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝主席。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我多給你30秒了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我替你問的，你還講這樣。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","接下來請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151432","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151432","tool":"pyannote","id":"151432-pyannote"},"job_id":"B0hJftLSGUZOiche","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \":\"}, {\"word\": \"「\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 329.545, \"end\": 329.565, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 329.565, \"end\": 329.725, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 329.725, \"end\": 329.945, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 329.945, \"end\": 330.005, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 330.005, \"end\": 330.025, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 330.025, \"end\": 330.045, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 330.045, \"end\": 330.165, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 330.165, \"end\": 330.205, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 330.205, \"end\": 330.225, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 330.225, \"end\": 330.345, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 330.345, \"end\": 330.365, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"»\"}, {\"word\": \":\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,151 --> 00:00:03,592\n謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:17,001 --> 00:00:43,767\n委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你\n\n3\n00:00:46,057 --> 00:00:52,259\n國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,\n\n4\n00:01:05,492 --> 00:01:08,654\n本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變\n\n5\n00:01:26,926 --> 00:01:39,909\n沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊\n\n6\n00:01:51,752 --> 00:01:56,494\n那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。\n\n7\n00:02:13,402 --> 00:02:16,024\n因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體\n\n8\n00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:51,528\n從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法\n\n9\n00:02:55,370 --> 00:03:02,918\n那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主\n\n10\n00:03:11,027 --> 00:03:25,382\n那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協\n\n11\n00:03:26,323 --> 00:03:36,748\n是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟\n\n12\n00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:56,981\n議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟\n\n13\n00:04:10,191 --> 00:04:26,292\n公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後\n\n14\n00:04:27,253 --> 00:04:44,811\n求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?\n\n15\n00:04:46,773 --> 00:04:48,054\n委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。»:\n\n16\n00:05:03,268 --> 00:05:04,769\n委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案。»:\n\n17\n00:05:28,644 --> 00:05:30,365\n委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。»:\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3151\t3592\t謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝\n17001\t43767\t委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你\n46057\t52259\t國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,\n65492\t68654\t本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變\n86926\t99909\t沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了 署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊\n111752\t116494\t那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。\n133402\t136024\t因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體\n155160\t171528\t從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法\n175370\t182918\t那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主\n191027\t205382\t那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協\n206323\t216748\t是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟\n222410\t236981\t議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟\n250191\t266292\t公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後\n267253\t284811\t求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?\n286773\t288054\t委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:\n303268\t304769\t委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案。 »:\n328644\t330365\t委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝\n委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你\n國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,\n本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變\n沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了 署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊\n那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。\n因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體\n從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法\n那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主\n那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協\n是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟\n議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟\n公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後\n求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?\n委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:\n委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案。 »:\n委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.151 --> 00:03.592\n謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝\n\n00:17.001 --> 00:43.767\n委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你\n\n00:46.057 --> 00:52.259\n國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,\n\n01:05.492 --> 01:08.654\n本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變\n\n01:26.926 --> 01:39.909\n沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊\n\n01:51.752 --> 01:56.494\n那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。\n\n02:13.402 --> 02:16.024\n因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體\n\n02:35.160 --> 02:51.528\n從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法\n\n02:55.370 --> 03:02.918\n那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主\n\n03:11.027 --> 03:25.382\n那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協\n\n03:26.323 --> 03:36.748\n是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟\n\n03:42.410 --> 03:56.981\n議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟\n\n04:10.191 --> 04:26.292\n公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後\n\n04:27.253 --> 04:44.811\n求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?\n\n04:46.773 --> 04:48.054\n委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。»:\n\n05:03.268 --> 05:04.769\n委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案。»:\n\n05:28.644 --> 05:30.365\n委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。»:\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.151,"end":3.592,"text":"謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝"},{"start":17.001,"end":43.767,"text":"委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你"},{"start":46.057,"end":52.259,"text":"國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,"},{"start":65.492,"end":68.654,"text":"本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變"},{"start":86.926,"end":99.909,"text":"沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了 署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊"},{"start":111.752,"end":116.494,"text":"那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。"},{"start":133.402,"end":136.024,"text":"因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體"},{"start":155.16,"end":171.528,"text":"從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法"},{"start":175.37,"end":182.918,"text":"那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主"},{"start":191.027,"end":205.382,"text":"那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協"},{"start":206.323,"end":216.748,"text":"是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟"},{"start":222.41,"end":236.981,"text":"議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟"},{"start":250.191,"end":266.292,"text":"公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後"},{"start":267.253,"end":284.811,"text":"求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?"},{"start":286.773,"end":288.054,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":303.268,"end":304.769,"text":"委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案。 »:"},{"start":328.644,"end":330.365,"text":"委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:"}]}}}}