{"id":151440,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151440","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445cc9403cf70e1e4ea0525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c942aad447d12a835725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:57:13 - 12:09:12","影片長度":"00:11:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":719,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:09:12+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:57:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":879,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時57分）主席，我們請行政院主計總處主計長。"],["主席：請主計長。"],["陳委員玉珍：我剛剛聽到王委員那個說法，我覺得臺灣的企業很可憐，如果臺灣的市場很小，沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢，然後都還不能去打世界盃，如果外面可以賺錢還不能去的話，這個企業實在太難經營了。","請問主計長有關金門財力分級的議題，主計長，您做到520對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。應該是。"],["陳委員玉珍：應該是喔？還沒確認是嗎？會繼續幫我們服務嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我會去金門玩的。"],["陳委員玉珍：你會去金門玩，那在去金門之前，你來幫我們關心一下我們金門的財力分級。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，你要請客。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們一定會好好的接待你。"],["朱主計長澤民：感謝。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們金門的財力分級，你知道我們現在第幾級嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是第3級。"],["陳委員玉珍：第3級嘛，我們一直說我們是離島，我們跟澎湖、馬祖事實上差不多意思吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們是考慮財力來分的，不考慮是不是離島。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，考慮財力，我們第3級的原因是因為我們沒有借錢，對吧？上回我問過你嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，因為金門的財力不錯啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：對，因為我們是好學生嘛，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：不是說好學生啦，是表現……"],["陳委員玉珍：財力不錯有歲計賸餘嘛，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：雖然是第3級，你們給金門的補助款還是持續增加，對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：當然了，是這樣。"],["陳委員玉珍：你看一下，我們金門明天要舉辦第4次首長聯繫會報，主持人是行政院的張景森政委，就是以前的福建省主席，也是現在金馬中心的算主任還是什麼，反正就是省主席那個位置。他有說針對縣政府希望將財力級次調降為第5級。金門縣人口只有14萬多，全國排名倒數第3，各項基礎建設落後。你去金門參觀的時候也希望看到我們進步一點嘛，那請你協助把我們縣政府的財力級次調降為第5級，請問主計長的態度如何？請你在臨去的時候行善事。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們對級次會有所謂的分配啦！您應該很……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，你一直說我們的財力好，所以沒有辦法降級嘛，因為我們是好學生，有剩錢所以沒有辦法降……"],["朱主計長澤民：調降的話，其他縣市就升上來了。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛！是不是？當好學生有什麼用？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有，好學生或是壞學生是兩回事，那個是兩回事。"],["陳委員玉珍：政府努力賺錢，金門縣努力賺錢，金門縣民努力的喝高粱，我們的財力也不錯，所以我們的補助款被……"],["朱主計長澤民：高粱是臺灣人在喝啦……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，根據金門酒廠的買賣，其實從金門賣出去的最多啦。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，金門賣出去都是臺灣人去買的啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：主要是金門啦，當然最後還是臺灣人去買沒錯，謝謝大家啦，但也是我們很努力推銷嘛。你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長，沒有虧待我們，那請問您，過去5年來，107年到112年，主計總處有沒有扣過我們金門縣的補助款？"],["朱主計長澤民：那是因為我們有個公式，是每個人都是一樣的，就是它不是法定的社會福利支出，我們有一定的一個公式，被扣款的不是只有金門。"],["陳委員玉珍：你的意思是我們財力好，歲計有賸餘沒錯，所以第3級嘛，這都沒錯嘛！歲計有賸餘、第3級、財力好，所以我們金門縣政府願意比較照顧金門縣民，做一些社會福利，可是這樣子要被你們懲罰？"],["朱主計長澤民：不是，沒有，那個是非法定的社會福利的話……"],["陳委員玉珍：你聽得懂嗎？我們如果有錢，我們想要對金門縣民照顧一點，你們就要懲罰我們。"],["朱主計長澤民：其他縣市也都有這種情況，我們對金門沒有大小眼，我們對金門還特別好咧！"],["陳委員玉珍：你扣我們的補助款，原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好，所以你們不鼓勵縣政府、地方政府對縣民的福利做好一點？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們希望就像您剛才講的……"],["陳委員玉珍：就是因為我們財力比較好，所以我們不能照顧縣民？"],["朱主計長澤民：就是委員剛才講到的，你們自認為建設有落後，我們希望不要通通花在一些社會福利，也要做一些在建設上，所以我們會有一些規定，這一個規定全國都是適用的。"],["陳委員玉珍：請教主計長，建設需要的錢比較多，而福利方面，因為我們人比較少，發一點點福利，可以照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待，如果我們把錢拿來做建設，因為我們的確沒有那麼多錢，所以我們就來舉債的話，我們來舉債……"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有……"],["陳委員玉珍：我想請問你……"],["朱主計長澤民：針對建設，你們提出計畫來，國發會會有一個……"],["陳委員玉珍：國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊！你幫我向國發會多說一點，沒關係。"],["朱主計長澤民：新的國發會主委我不認識，以前的主委去當秘書長……"],["陳委員玉珍：你會跟他說？現在還有一個月沒關係，還有機會。"],["朱主計長澤民：我可以跟龔明鑫講。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，我想請問你一個問題，如果舉債我們的財力就會變差嘛，變差到時候我們舉債度日，我們的社會福利措施會不會因此受到影響？"],["朱主計長澤民：如果有舉債，而且還去做社會福利措施，那個嚴格來講是不恰當的。"],["陳委員玉珍：不恰當，但是我們可不可以這樣做？就是如果我們舉債，我們原來要發的社會福利繼續發。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是舉債去做經常門的支出，那個是違背預算法的。"],["陳委員玉珍：不恰當嘛，那你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出？如果我們開始舉債。"],["朱主計長澤民：社會福利支出……"],["陳委員玉珍：我們自己發的錢。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是你們縣政府的……"],["陳委員玉珍：是，我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利。"],["朱主計長澤民：可是……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為我們舉債去做建設……"],["朱主計長澤民：那我們的補助款就會減少。"],["陳委員玉珍：主計長，我們要去舉債做建設嘛，我們的社會福利也不想改變，我們不想偏廢嘛，我們一樣照顧縣民，一樣做這些建設，一樣做社會福利，如果社會福利照做，但因為我們建設的確比較沒那麼進步，我們願意來舉債做一些建設，那這樣子你們會不會終止我們去做這些社會福利？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們不會怎麼終止，可是就是我們的補助款會減少。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，補助款會減少，但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：不會、不會！因為那個是你們縣政府的事。"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嘛！那是我們縣政府自己決定嘛，我們要舉債做建設……"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對，但是不能違背法令。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們願意舉債做建設，投資未來嘛，你們不會去……"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那個我們尊重。"],["陳委員玉珍：你會尊重我們嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是地方自治。"],["陳委員玉珍：那時候我們財力就會變比較差，我們就會變得舉債度日，那時候我們的財力分級就會降低了嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：用這樣子的推論，這樣子……"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：不能夠這樣子啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：不是啦，財力比較差分級才會降低啊，你現在一直說我們財力好，不給錢。"],["朱主計長澤民：不會、不會，我們會考慮各項因素啦，我不能夠為了我的一個標準……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，你的標準不用改變……"],["朱主計長澤民：不能夠為金門特別立一個優惠措施。"],["陳委員玉珍：主計長，你的標準不用改變，但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛！你不用改變標準，反正有錢的就是3級，往前，沒錢的就是5級，就往下啊，我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛，所以我們就希望往下。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們會考慮，還有不是只有這個，因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：主要是這樣子啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：財力分級還是有考慮各項……"],["陳委員玉珍：我再請問主計長，這個已經跟你講了，已經剩下一個多月了，你就臨去秋波幫一下金門嘛，3級至少跟澎湖、馬祖一樣，我們一向只跟澎湖、馬祖比，也不敢跟其他縣市比較啦，好不好？同樣是離島，你考慮一下，環境都是一樣辛苦。"],["朱主計長澤民：我知道你們過去都是跟好的比，不要跟後面的比啦！對不對？"],["陳委員玉珍：我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好了啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：你們不是……"],["陳委員玉珍：我們是比較優秀的是嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：就跟您一樣都是努力向上嘛，不會跟我比，因為我在後段嘛，對不對？"],["陳委員玉珍：請問主計長，全國正副議長在113年有一次聯誼座談會，會中有一個提案，好，我們現在就跟直轄市比好了，有一個提案建議縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動，建立每三年的常態討論機制。你們有沒有考慮這個，在編列年度共同性費用編列基準時有沒有考慮物價波動指數？"],["朱主計長澤民：當然會有啊！像最近我們會把一些差旅費提高，當然都會考慮。"],["陳委員玉珍：有喔？這個是全國正副議長聯誼座談會所提出來的。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們都會考慮，而且我們在每年做這個基準表的時候，都會發文給地方政府，甚至找地方政府來開會。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：請問在這個編列的過程中，你們是不是比較重直轄市而輕地方縣市？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！縣市的補助比例上限反而比直轄市高。"],["陳委員玉珍：真的？那你看一下編列標準，例如在各種比賽項目上，直轄市議會編列基準為市內每次6萬元、市外每次40萬元；縣市議會則為縣內每次3萬元、縣外每次20萬元，就是少一半啊！另在辦理議員經建考察項目，直轄市議員每人（年）3萬元、縣市議員每人（年）1萬5,000元。所以這個標準就不一致啊，你沒有比較重直轄市嗎？你不能因為你住在臺北市……"],["朱主計長澤民：那個跟重直轄市沒有關係，那個是因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：你說這個標準跟直轄市或縣市沒有關係？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是考慮到服務選民的人數，跟這個有關係。"],["陳委員玉珍：你確定嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是、是、是！"],["陳委員玉珍：那我跟你講，你看彰化也是縣市喔，你確定這個跟直轄市或是縣市沒有關係嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對啦！那個是……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個你確定一下喔，因為我查的不是這樣子喔！"],["朱主計長澤民：好，我來看這個，但是我認為並沒有因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多，因為是一般縣市編列比較少？"],["朱主計長澤民：是跟服務選民多少有關係啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：你說什麼？你說是人口的關係是嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對、對，是每一個議員所要服務的人口。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果是一般地方縣市，它的人口事實上跟直轄市是一樣的，它也會編列那麼多就對了？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是標準之一啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：我覺得你講的不正確，這是我們地方議會、縣市議會議長聯誼會提供的訊息，絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是標準之一啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：所以差太多了，請你考慮，公共工程委員會對離島辦公房舍及員工宿舍修繕都有加計30%的制度設計。"],["朱主計長澤民：有、有。"],["陳委員玉珍：其他制度方面也要援引辦理啦，比如離島到臺灣做經建考察要坐飛機，各項費用事實上都超過很多，比你們只坐巴士差很多，這個部分請你們也要幫我們檢討，好嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：經建考察是差旅費……"],["陳委員玉珍：我是舉例，相關的一樣，我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的標準要公平一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們都很公平，如果金門縣政府有意見可以提出來，我們可以在那個會的時候來討論。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，所以金門縣或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來啦？"],["朱主計長澤民：都可以提過來。"],["陳委員玉珍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍委員。","接下來請羅明才委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra 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228.421, \"end\": 239.506, \"text\": \"三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 228.421, \"end\": 228.541, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 228.541, \"end\": 229.882, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 229.882, \"end\": 230.042, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 230.042, \"end\": 230.302, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 230.302, \"end\": 230.442, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 230.442, \"end\": 230.822, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 230.822, \"end\": 230.942, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 230.942, \"end\": 230.962, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 230.962, 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\"主\", \"start\": 448.643, \"end\": 448.663, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 448.663, \"end\": 448.683, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.683, \"end\": 448.703, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 448.703, \"end\": 448.723, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 448.723, \"end\": 448.783, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 448.783, \"end\": 448.803, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 448.803, \"end\": 448.823, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 448.823, \"end\": 448.923, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 448.923, \"end\": 448.943, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 448.943, \"end\": 448.963, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.963, \"end\": 449.043, \"score\": 0.296}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 449.043, \"end\": 449.063, \"score\": 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716.453, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,625 --> 00:00:27,381\n主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了\n\n2\n00:00:29,042 --> 00:00:57,854\n來想請問主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸主席長您做到520對吧欸應該是應該是喔還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對我會去金門玩對不對蛤你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔\n\n3\n00:01:00,208 --> 00:01:27,342\n第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛\n\n4\n00:01:28,802 --> 00:01:39,228\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n\n5\n00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:51,400\n總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計\n\n6\n00:02:18,126 --> 00:02:24,913\n憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候\n\n7\n00:02:27,043 --> 00:02:50,954\n那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對\n\n8\n00:02:53,295 --> 00:03:01,680\n財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多\n\n9\n00:03:11,946 --> 00:03:26,971\n金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生\n\n10\n00:03:31,772 --> 00:03:32,773\n所以你的意思是說我們\n\n11\n00:03:48,421 --> 00:03:59,506\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n\n12\n00:04:09,511 --> 00:04:15,767\n金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。\n\n13\n00:04:20,066 --> 00:04:48,004\n你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定\n\n14\n00:04:48,604 --> 00:05:07,562\n那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待\n\n15\n00:05:10,205 --> 00:05:27,914\n那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不\n\n16\n00:05:35,678 --> 00:06:01,447\n主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的\n\n17\n00:06:02,827 --> 00:06:29,728\n不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長\n\n18\n00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:33,131\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計\n\n19\n00:06:57,918 --> 00:07:10,852\n但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧\n\n20\n00:07:11,713 --> 00:07:13,994\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa\n\n21\n00:07:28,643 --> 00:07:32,305\n主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛\n\n22\n00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:15,334\n所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦\n\n23\n00:08:16,095 --> 00:08:37,754\n好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說\n\n24\n00:08:44,339 --> 00:09:01,917\n我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性\n\n25\n00:09:03,838 --> 00:09:24,043\n有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝\n\n26\n00:09:25,603 --> 00:09:49,367\n那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦\n\n27\n00:09:55,809 --> 00:10:08,840\n經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎\n\n28\n00:10:17,668 --> 00:10:18,448\n但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為\n\n29\n00:10:33,675 --> 00:10:43,443\n所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦\n\n30\n00:10:59,394 --> 00:11:23,361\n我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到\n\n31\n00:11:25,442 --> 00:11:26,905\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2\n\n32\n00:11:38,324 --> 00:11:56,453\n舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2625\t27381\t主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了\n29042\t57854\t來 想請問 主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸 主席長您做到520對吧欸 應該是應該是喔 還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對 我會去金門玩對不對蛤 你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔\n60208\t87342\t第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛\n88802\t99228\t三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n110760\t111400\t總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計\n138126\t144913\t憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候\n147043\t170954\t那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對\n173295\t181680\t財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多\n191946\t206971\t金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生\n211772\t212773\t所以你的意思是說我們\n228421\t239506\t三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n249511\t255767\t金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。\n260066\t288004\t你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定\n288604\t307562\t那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待\n310205\t327914\t那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不\n335678\t361447\t主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的\n362827\t389728\t不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長\n392250\t393131\t三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計\n417918\t430852\t但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧\n431713\t433994\t三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa\n448643\t452305\t主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛\n477639\t495334\t所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦\n496095\t517754\t好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說\n524339\t541917\t我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性\n543838\t564043\t有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝\n565603\t589367\t那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦\n595809\t608840\t經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎\n617668\t618448\t但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為\n633675\t643443\t所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦\n659394\t683361\t我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到\n685442\t686905\t二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2\n698324\t716453\t舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝\n","txt":"主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了\n來 想請問 主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸 主席長您做到520對吧欸 應該是應該是喔 還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對 我會去金門玩對不對蛤 你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔\n第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計\n憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候\n那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對\n財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多\n金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生\n所以你的意思是說我們\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。\n你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定\n那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待\n那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不\n主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的\n不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計\n但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa\n主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛\n所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦\n好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說\n我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性\n有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝\n那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦\n經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎\n但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為\n所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦\n我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2\n舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.625 --> 00:27.381\n主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了\n\n00:29.042 --> 00:57.854\n來想請問主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸主席長您做到520對吧欸應該是應該是喔還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對我會去金門玩對不對蛤你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔\n\n01:00.208 --> 01:27.342\n第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛\n\n01:28.802 --> 01:39.228\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n\n01:50.760 --> 01:51.400\n總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計\n\n02:18.126 --> 02:24.913\n憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候\n\n02:27.043 --> 02:50.954\n那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對\n\n02:53.295 --> 03:01.680\n財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多\n\n03:11.946 --> 03:26.971\n金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生\n\n03:31.772 --> 03:32.773\n所以你的意思是說我們\n\n03:48.421 --> 03:59.506\n三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n\n04:09.511 --> 04:15.767\n金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。\n\n04:20.066 --> 04:48.004\n你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定\n\n04:48.604 --> 05:07.562\n那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待\n\n05:10.205 --> 05:27.914\n那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不\n\n05:35.678 --> 06:01.447\n主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的\n\n06:02.827 --> 06:29.728\n不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長\n\n06:32.250 --> 06:33.131\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計\n\n06:57.918 --> 07:10.852\n但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧\n\n07:11.713 --> 07:13.994\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa\n\n07:28.643 --> 07:32.305\n主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛\n\n07:57.639 --> 08:15.334\n所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦\n\n08:16.095 --> 08:37.754\n好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說\n\n08:44.339 --> 09:01.917\n我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性\n\n09:03.838 --> 09:24.043\n有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝\n\n09:25.603 --> 09:49.367\n那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦\n\n09:55.809 --> 10:08.840\n經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎\n\n10:17.668 --> 10:18.448\n但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為\n\n10:33.675 --> 10:43.443\n所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦\n\n10:59.394 --> 11:23.361\n我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到\n\n11:25.442 --> 11:26.905\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2\n\n11:38.324 --> 11:56.453\n舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.625,"end":27.381,"text":"主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了"},{"start":29.042,"end":57.854,"text":"來 想請問 主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸 主席長您做到520對吧欸 應該是應該是喔 還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對 我會去金門玩對不對蛤 你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔"},{"start":60.208,"end":87.342,"text":"第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛"},{"start":88.802,"end":99.228,"text":"三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。"},{"start":110.76,"end":111.4,"text":"總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計"},{"start":138.126,"end":144.913,"text":"憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候"},{"start":147.043,"end":170.954,"text":"那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對"},{"start":173.295,"end":181.68,"text":"財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多"},{"start":191.946,"end":206.971,"text":"金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生"},{"start":211.772,"end":212.773,"text":"所以你的意思是說我們"},{"start":228.421,"end":239.506,"text":"三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。"},{"start":249.511,"end":255.767,"text":"金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。"},{"start":260.066,"end":288.004,"text":"你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定"},{"start":288.604,"end":307.562,"text":"那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待"},{"start":310.205,"end":327.914,"text":"那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不"},{"start":335.678,"end":361.447,"text":"主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的"},{"start":362.827,"end":389.728,"text":"不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長"},{"start":392.25,"end":393.131,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":417.918,"end":430.852,"text":"但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧"},{"start":431.713,"end":433.994,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":448.643,"end":452.305,"text":"主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛"},{"start":477.639,"end":495.334,"text":"所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦"},{"start":496.095,"end":517.754,"text":"好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說"},{"start":524.339,"end":541.917,"text":"我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性"},{"start":543.838,"end":564.043,"text":"有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝"},{"start":565.603,"end":589.367,"text":"那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦"},{"start":595.809,"end":608.84,"text":"經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎"},{"start":617.668,"end":618.448,"text":"但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為"},{"start":633.675,"end":643.443,"text":"所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦"},{"start":659.394,"end":683.361,"text":"我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到"},{"start":685.442,"end":686.905,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":698.324,"end":716.453,"text":"舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝"}]}}}}