{"id":151442,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151442","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445ac68629f341ba84251d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c9422361ff6ef9879315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"10:54:29 - 11:04:55","影片長度":"00:10:26","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":626,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:04:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:54:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":378,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（10時54分）好，謝謝召委，我們先請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。我是把握機會多跟你聊天，不然快沒有機會了。一樣，今天我們要審所謂的道交條例，但是在審查道交條例之前，我想請教部長，這兩天我們三讀通過行人交通安全設施條例，當時在內政委員會聯席會議時，我有去質詢，行人交通安全設施條例一定是關係到行人安全的問題，請問這個條例的主管機關到底是誰？就目前的結果來講，主管機關分為交通部跟內政部，那麼到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全這件事上面，你們是怎麼分工的？"],["王部長國材：目前是內政部，主要原因是現在的行人設施大部分是在都市計畫區內，由國土署所管，所以當時在院裡面這個條例是由內政部提出來，而我們是負責有關道安及相關改善部分，就是我們的公路系統，比如公路系統要做人行的話，就由我們當主管單位，像台1線要做人行道、台3線要做人行道，這個就由我們來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：所以都市計畫區內歸內政部，都市計畫區外歸你們？"],["王部長國材：就是這個條例的主管機關是在內政部。"],["黃委員健豪：好，如果這個條例的主管機關是內政部，那後續在執行道交條例的時候，這個我當時質詢時也有提到，道交條例有關於道路的定義，人行道也是道路的一種……"],["王部長國材：是，是。"],["黃委員健豪：所以道交條例也有規範到人行道？"],["王部長國材：有，有。"],["黃委員健豪：政府做的人行道，包含退縮地、騎樓、標線型……"],["王部長國材：對，這個有定義。"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！問題的重點是談到有關行人安全的問題，包含道交條例的修正，可能一部分是為了解決行人地獄的問題，這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確出來，我想後續的討論會很難進行下去，所以我今天一開始就先問，行人交通安全設施條例已經三讀了，而這個三讀通過的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼？"],["王部長國材：應該這樣講，設施條例裡面規定，比如障礙物的移除要罰款，這個就在內政部，該提年度計畫做人行道，這個也都在設施條例裡面，但是有關於處罰或一些工程部分，則是在我們交通部，比如占用人行道處罰600元，這部分就在我們的處罰條例裡面。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝部長，我是覺得聽起來蠻有爭議性的，沒有辦法很明確的定義，這樣對於地方上在執行時會有疑義產生，到底往上找是要找誰？沒關係，我們下次再繼續討論。","接下來我想跟部長分享遞送服務業，我想這次的道交條例修正，主要倒也不是說被罰錢的問題，現在最主要的問題，就是去年我們提出記點作法，然後現在又提出來想要改變這個作法，我想最嚴重的問題在於民眾被罰錢又被記點，這件事情衝擊到了某些行業的生存問題，比如我就先提遞送服務業，他們109年的總收入是597億，這是你們提出的報告，111年的總收入達到995億，光從數字上來看就可以知道所謂遞送服務業，就是貨運業者，包含快遞、外送跟餐飲服務等等，漲幅非常非常多，紅線違停、臨停的這些違規，據我了解，多數、八成貨運公司會幫司機負擔罰款，但是記點則算在司機身上，所以今天才會有這個問題。之前業者也提過希望能夠解決這個問題，因為他們要營業就需要有地方停車，所以去年就提出要增設貨車裝卸區的停車格，部長，你知道這個會議開完之後，全臺灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎？"],["林司長福山：這個部分跟委員報告一下，去年有要求各地方政府跟當地的公工會大家去討論，然後盤點需求。目前主要盤點出來大概是在六都，公會所建議的部分大概有四百多處，目前各地方政府大概完成二百多處，另外地方政府自己盤點出來需要畫紅黃線的部分大概有九百多處，目前大概完成七百多處，這是比較多的部分。至於前面公工會建議的部分，我們現在是每兩個月找一個地方政府來跟這些路權團體還有駕駛人團體共同來盤點，然後每三個月公布相關的情況。"],["黃委員健豪：所以你的數字全國是增加200個貨車停車格？"],["林司長福山：這個部分大概主要是集中在六都，他們找當地的計程車或者是貨運公會去盤點出來，其他16個縣市的部分，地方政府的反應是說當地的工、公會是沒有提出什麼樣的需求，那就由地方政府自己來做一個盤點。"],["黃委員健豪：今天都會區裡面，尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨需求的地方，如果它的貨運停車問題沒有解決，那我們再怎麼修法，它還是會存在這個樣態。除了貨車之外，我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題，如果他沒有地方停車，他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車，那他當然就很容易被檢舉，被檢舉那當然就會被記點，被記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響，所以才有這個問題。","我想問一下部長，以你們現在的數字，你覺得全臺灣增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區卸貨的問題嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，因為這個跟工、公會討論，我們去年給它的時程就是在6月底都要完成，他們提出了四百多格，還有包括黃線的部分，我們現在就是列管，到6月全部都完成。當然，這是跟他們討論的結果，在每個路段哪裡要設，如果四百多格設完以後有需求，那當然還可以再討論。"],["黃委員健豪：我想，今天這個問題跟內政部也有一定程度的關係，就是在道路設計上，我們道路有沒有規劃這些臨時停車的空間，如果沒有規劃好，當然長期都會有這個問題。","另外，在貨車停車格部分，我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議，歐洲或各國都已經在做類似的狀況，我們的貨運業者現在當然都是用大型的貨車在做運送，但是歐洲很多國家是小型的城市，城市的路幅比較狹小，因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道。我們常常會建議，我們是不是人行道能夠拓寬一點，能夠讓行人空間增加，常常交通單位給我們的回復是，這樣子我們整個城市的車容量會不夠。今天車容量不夠是因為我們都是用大型的貨運車在做，如果今天交通部能夠重新思考整個臺灣在城市裡面到底適合哪一種貨運方式，是不是可以參考這些歐洲國家，他們把人行道拓寬了，把道路縮小，所以同步的，在他們貨運的車輛也能夠縮小的情況下，是不是就能夠一併的解決這個問題？部長。"],["王部長國材：這個就要有需求啦！現在很多物流車都是載蠻多的貨物，那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式，這個還是一樣，就是要看那個城市的需求，但是現在很多的物流是大車走主幹線來以後，在地區的hub裡面也會換小車，也有一些三輪的機車，我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求。"],["黃委員健豪：你們要輔導啊！一定有這個需求，大車走主幹線一樣會遇到我們上一頁提到的這個問題，他一樣沒地方臨停卸貨，給車走的道路幅度會一直受限於車輛的大小，所以給車走的繼續維持這種很大的道路。如果今天我們提到要解決行人、交通及行人地獄的問題，希望巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候，你的路幅縮小，當然同步就要有配套措施出來，我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂的配套措施，是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具存在，有這樣子的可能性。在歐洲各國或美國，他們的運輸量不會比我們低啦！對不對？部長。"],["王部長國材：這個就是從運具，讓它在適合的街道走，司長看這個有沒有違反什麼規定？"],["林司長福山：這個部分我再補充一點，現行國內的部分大概是大車到小貨車，進到巷弄現在有三輪電動機車載貨，如果要思考三輪腳踏車的部分，原則上我們都可以來思考，但是這個東西必須有需求、地方相關的配套做好，因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治，訂自治條例就可以去做處理，這個部分我們來配合業界的需求，跟地方政府來合作，看看在什麼地方試辦會比較適當。"],["黃委員健豪：好，因為時間到了，我拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃，提供多項的運具選擇，來解決這個停車的問題。"],["王部長國材：好，我們研究一下。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝，黃健豪委員發言完畢。","現在請陳素月委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 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{\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 327.272, \"end\": 327.292, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"況\"}]}, {\"start\": 328.012, \"end\": 351.793, \"text\": \"所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 328.012, \"end\": 328.192, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 328.192, \"end\": 329.133, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 329.133, \"end\": 329.714, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 329.714, \"end\": 329.934, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 329.934, \"end\": 330.474, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 330.474, \"end\": 330.554, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 330.554, \"end\": 330.775, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 330.775, \"end\": 331.715, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, 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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 350.692, \"end\": 350.772, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 350.772, \"end\": 350.933, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 350.933, \"end\": 351.073, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 351.073, \"end\": 351.233, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 351.233, \"end\": 351.333, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 351.333, \"end\": 351.633, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 351.633, \"end\": 351.773, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 351.773, \"end\": 351.793, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}]}, {\"start\": 353.123, \"end\": 373.94, \"text\": \"因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 353.123, \"end\": 353.323, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 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372.119, \"end\": 372.319, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 372.319, \"end\": 373.02, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 373.02, \"end\": 373.38, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 373.38, \"end\": 373.58, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 373.58, \"end\": 373.7, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 373.7, \"end\": 373.92, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 373.92, \"end\": 373.94, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 375.221, \"end\": 391.771, \"text\": \"答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 375.221, \"end\": 375.401, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 375.401, \"end\": 375.782, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 375.782, \"end\": 375.942, \"score\": 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\"席\", \"start\": 619.471, \"end\": 619.671, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 619.671, \"end\": 619.811, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"豪\", \"start\": 619.811, \"end\": 619.831, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,915 --> 00:00:04,256\n道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案\n\n2\n00:00:24,391 --> 00:00:51,547\n這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工\n\n3\n00:00:52,567 --> 00:00:52,748\n議員提出\n\n4\n00:01:08,510 --> 00:01:21,699\n我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位\n\n5\n00:01:23,527 --> 00:01:26,810\n提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種\n\n6\n00:01:52,890 --> 00:02:18,019\n所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想\n\n7\n00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:29,668\n後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼\n\n8\n00:02:31,983 --> 00:02:56,110\n應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面\n\n9\n00:02:57,679 --> 00:03:25,891\n好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個\n\n10\n00:03:27,652 --> 00:03:42,808\n記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億\n\n11\n00:03:49,295 --> 00:04:03,011\n所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然\n\n12\n00:04:06,135 --> 00:04:28,361\n八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個\n\n13\n00:04:30,531 --> 00:04:36,417\n貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:39,074 --> 00:04:58,732\n這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個\n\n15\n00:05:01,554 --> 00:05:27,292\n另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況\n\n16\n00:05:28,012 --> 00:05:51,793\n所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點\n\n17\n00:05:53,123 --> 00:06:13,940\n因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。\n\n18\n00:06:15,221 --> 00:06:31,771\n答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區\n\n19\n00:06:33,132 --> 00:07:00,960\n卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。\n\n20\n00:07:02,196 --> 00:07:17,017\n稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說\n\n21\n00:07:18,258 --> 00:07:41,264\n我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道\n\n22\n00:07:41,664 --> 00:07:42,184\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n23\n00:07:58,849 --> 00:07:59,409\n答案答案答案\n\n24\n00:08:23,942 --> 00:08:46,928\n那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求\n\n25\n00:08:47,668 --> 00:09:08,295\n你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。\n\n26\n00:09:08,815 --> 00:09:37,856\n那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走\n\n27\n00:09:38,777 --> 00:10:01,540\n我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好\n\n28\n00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:19,831\n那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2915\t4256\t道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案\n24391\t51547\t這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工\n52567\t52748\t議員提出\n68510\t81699\t我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位\n83527\t86810\t提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種\n112890\t138019\t所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想\n138759\t149668\t後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼\n151983\t176110\t應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面\n177679\t205891\t好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個\n207652\t222808\t記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億\n229295\t243011\t所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然\n246135\t268361\t八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個\n270531\t276417\t貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?\n279074\t298732\t這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個\n301554\t327292\t另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況\n328012\t351793\t所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點\n353123\t373940\t因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。\n375221\t391771\t答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區\n393132\t420960\t卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。\n422196\t437017\t稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說\n438258\t461264\t我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道\n461664\t462184\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n478849\t479409\t答案答案答案\n503942\t526928\t那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求\n527668\t548295\t你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。\n548815\t577856\t那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走\n578777\t601540\t我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好\n601900\t619831\t那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪\n","txt":"道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案\n這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工\n議員提出\n我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位\n提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種\n所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想\n後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼\n應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面\n好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個\n記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億\n所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然\n八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個\n貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?\n這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個\n另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況\n所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點\n因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。\n答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區\n卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。\n稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說\n我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n答案答案答案\n那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求\n你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。\n那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走\n我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好\n那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.915 --> 00:04.256\n道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案\n\n00:24.391 --> 00:51.547\n這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工\n\n00:52.567 --> 00:52.748\n議員提出\n\n01:08.510 --> 01:21.699\n我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位\n\n01:23.527 --> 01:26.810\n提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種\n\n01:52.890 --> 02:18.019\n所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想\n\n02:18.759 --> 02:29.668\n後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼\n\n02:31.983 --> 02:56.110\n應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面\n\n02:57.679 --> 03:25.891\n好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個\n\n03:27.652 --> 03:42.808\n記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億\n\n03:49.295 --> 04:03.011\n所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然\n\n04:06.135 --> 04:28.361\n八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個\n\n04:30.531 --> 04:36.417\n貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?\n\n04:39.074 --> 04:58.732\n這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個\n\n05:01.554 --> 05:27.292\n另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況\n\n05:28.012 --> 05:51.793\n所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點\n\n05:53.123 --> 06:13.940\n因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。\n\n06:15.221 --> 06:31.771\n答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區\n\n06:33.132 --> 07:00.960\n卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。\n\n07:02.196 --> 07:17.017\n稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說\n\n07:18.258 --> 07:41.264\n我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道\n\n07:41.664 --> 07:42.184\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n07:58.849 --> 07:59.409\n答案答案答案\n\n08:23.942 --> 08:46.928\n那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求\n\n08:47.668 --> 09:08.295\n你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。\n\n09:08.815 --> 09:37.856\n那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走\n\n09:38.777 --> 10:01.540\n我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好\n\n10:01.900 --> 10:19.831\n那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.915,"end":4.256,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案"},{"start":24.391,"end":51.547,"text":"這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工"},{"start":52.567,"end":52.748,"text":"議員提出"},{"start":68.51,"end":81.699,"text":"我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位"},{"start":83.527,"end":86.81,"text":"提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種"},{"start":112.89,"end":138.019,"text":"所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想"},{"start":138.759,"end":149.668,"text":"後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼"},{"start":151.983,"end":176.11,"text":"應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面"},{"start":177.679,"end":205.891,"text":"好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個"},{"start":207.652,"end":222.808,"text":"記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億"},{"start":229.295,"end":243.011,"text":"所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然"},{"start":246.135,"end":268.361,"text":"八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個"},{"start":270.531,"end":276.417,"text":"貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?"},{"start":279.074,"end":298.732,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個"},{"start":301.554,"end":327.292,"text":"另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況"},{"start":328.012,"end":351.793,"text":"所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點"},{"start":353.123,"end":373.94,"text":"因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。"},{"start":375.221,"end":391.771,"text":"答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區"},{"start":393.132,"end":420.96,"text":"卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。"},{"start":422.196,"end":437.017,"text":"稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說"},{"start":438.258,"end":461.264,"text":"我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道"},{"start":461.664,"end":462.184,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":478.849,"end":479.409,"text":"答案答案答案"},{"start":503.942,"end":526.928,"text":"那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求"},{"start":527.668,"end":548.295,"text":"你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。"},{"start":548.815,"end":577.856,"text":"那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走"},{"start":578.777,"end":601.54,"text":"我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好"},{"start":601.9,"end":619.831,"text":"那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪"}]}}}}