{"id":151452,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151452","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453242934c16cf16828f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94f8442d53e673a3d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:46:23 - 10:51:01","影片長度":"00:04:38","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":278,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:51:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:46:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":510,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時46分）請吳次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。針對今天排定的地方制度法修正草案審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定，我先講一下直轄市好了。一樣在第三十三條有關直轄市的規定裡面，像高雄市3個原民區都有選出區長，以前是鄉長，也有選出議員，所以高雄市議會目前有3個原民區的議員及1位平原的議員，這是高雄市的狀況。高雄市這個直轄市的人口超過200萬，議員總額不得超過62人，但是原住民議員是另外加上去的，而今天修法在討論縣市議員的部分。其實除了剛剛美惠委員提到有沒有跟這些縣市做溝通之外，我覺得我們也必須把現在縣市遇到的狀況拿出來討論一下。","我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須加以正視，就是第三十三條第二項的規定，縣市議員在人口1萬人以下，不得超過11人；20萬以下，不得超過19人，也就是總額19人；40萬以下，不得超過33人，可能次長腦中已經浮現哪一些縣市人口在40萬上下；80萬以下，不得超過43人。也就是說，如果現在的縣市人口有80萬，當2026年的人口已經少於80萬的時候，它的議員人數會從43人降到33人，請問次長，這樣的縣市有哪幾個？還是要請司長……"],["吳次長容輝：我先回答，等一下再請司長補充。"],["李委員柏毅：好。"],["吳次長容輝：現在大概有幾個縣市降得比較多，我講的就是屏東和臺東。"],["李委員柏毅：屏東和臺東。屏東會降幾席？"],["吳次長容輝：會降12席。"],["李委員柏毅：降12席？"],["吳次長容輝：一下子就降12席。"],["李委員柏毅：我先講，我過去在高雄市議會的時候，我們幾位原民區山原及平原的議員為地方真的爭取很多建設，為他們的族人爭取很多的福利，他們的問政都是非常優秀的，我們也會支持朝這個方向討論到底其他縣市的平原要不要用額外增加的方式，這個方向都是好的。但是遇到縣市議員是用總額來納的時候，請問我們是不是要修改這個總額，朝這個方向做總體的討論？我覺得這個是更必要的，必須一起討論。"],["吳次長容輝：對，如果今天要討論，這個要一起討論，否則的話，降的速度會非常快。"],["李委員柏毅：舉例，屏東會變成怎樣？"],["吳次長容輝：比如以屏東來講……"],["李委員柏毅：屏東如果真的降了11席……"],["吳次長容輝：12席。"],["李委員柏毅：12席，再增加平地原住民的人數，不是用外加的話，那個比例是不是整個會跑掉，臺東也是？"],["吳次長容輝：也一樣，所以我們為什麼會講，假設大家有共識的話，應該是外加而不是內含。"],["李委員柏毅：朝這個方向來做？"],["吳次長容輝：對，因為如果內含的話，會影響那個比例。"],["李委員柏毅：但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重，就是人口不到80萬跟人口不到40萬的縣市，一次掉了11席議員，一次掉了總額四分之一的議員，在地方的政治運作上，這個是非常大的問題，我希望內政部要把原住民的案子跟地方議員總額的案子一併做檢討。"],["吳次長容輝：我們希望緩降的方式，而不是一次就減了那麼多。"],["李委員柏毅：對，目前這個方案裡面沒有，所以我建議一致做討論及檢討，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員的質詢，謝謝次長的回應。","繼續我們請吳思瑤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 252.545, \"end\": 252.625, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 252.625, \"end\": 252.705, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 252.705, \"end\": 252.725, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,572 --> 00:00:07,074\n法定人數不足\n\n2\n00:00:15,002 --> 00:00:37,528\n針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長\n\n3\n00:00:40,309 --> 00:01:05,597\n也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長\n\n4\n00:01:07,728 --> 00:01:32,042\n但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛每位議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說\n\n5\n00:01:36,420 --> 00:01:46,650\n第二條規定,縣市議員在人口1萬以下不得超過11人,20萬以下不得超過19人,40萬以下33人。\n\n6\n00:01:58,277 --> 00:02:14,808\n80萬以下不得超過43人。」也就是說如果現在的縣市有80萬那人口有80萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於80萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問次長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請\n\n7\n00:02:28,181 --> 00:02:48,719\n現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多就是我講的這個屏東跟台東屏東跟台東屏東會降幾席會降12席降12席所以我們除了在處理這個今天我先講齁因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候我們幾位呃原民區的呃\n\n8\n00:02:51,275 --> 00:03:11,420\n三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。\n\n9\n00:03:11,980 --> 00:03:38,403\n但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原\n\n10\n00:03:39,224 --> 00:03:40,306\n三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具\n\n11\n00:03:54,585 --> 00:04:11,605\n朝這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到八十萬跟人口不到四十萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了四分之一的這個總額的議員這個在地方的\n\n12\n00:04:12,145 --> 00:04:12,725\n案案案案案案\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6572\t7074\t法定人數不足\n15002\t37528\t針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長\n40309\t65597\t也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長\n67728\t92042\t但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛每位議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說\n96420\t106650\t第二條規定,縣市議員在人口1萬以下不得超過11人,20萬以下不得超過19人,40萬以下33人。\n118277\t134808\t80萬以下不得超過43人。」也就是說如果現在的縣市有80萬那人口有80萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於80萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問次長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請\n148181\t168719\t現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多就是我講的這個屏東跟台東屏東跟台東屏東會降幾席會降12席降12席所以我們除了在處理這個今天我先講齁因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候我們幾位呃原民區的呃\n171275\t191420\t三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。\n191980\t218403\t但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原\n219224\t220306\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具\n234585\t251605\t朝這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到八十萬跟人口不到四十萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了四分之一的這個總額的議員這個在地方的\n252145\t252725\t案案案案案案\n","txt":"法定人數不足\n針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長\n也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長\n但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛每位議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說\n第二條規定,縣市議員在人口1萬以下不得超過11人,20萬以下不得超過19人,40萬以下33人。\n80萬以下不得超過43人。」也就是說如果現在的縣市有80萬那人口有80萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於80萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問次長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請\n現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多就是我講的這個屏東跟台東屏東跟台東屏東會降幾席會降12席降12席所以我們除了在處理這個今天我先講齁因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候我們幾位呃原民區的呃\n三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。\n但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原\n三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具\n朝這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到八十萬跟人口不到四十萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了四分之一的這個總額的議員這個在地方的\n案案案案案案\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.572 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