{"id":151501,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151501","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c33666134eff08ef797497e999b50eca937cdcb4691eb09bf4e2989ff97b2754fa435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"09:30:03 - 09:39:22","影片長度":"00:09:19","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計8案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計1案。\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-13"},"duration":559,"end_time":"2024-04-22T09:39:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T09:30:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":171,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（9時29分）謝謝主席，首先請黨產會主委。"],["主席：請黨產會林主委。"],["林主任委員峯正：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：林主委好。首先請教一個非常基本的問題，因為上個月國民黨黨主席在會議的時候提到執政黨可能會透過黨產會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款，然後包括所有的國民黨收入，當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了，是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下，你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們合法的收入嗎？"],["林主任委員峯正：其實這個事情在黨產會成立之初，第一個函釋就在講這個事，因為我們也注意到外界可能會有所誤解，所以特別在七年前就提出澄清。那個講法很簡單，就是不當黨產的處理只針對不當黨產，如果是合法收入就完全不受影響，也就是不會成為任何處分跟追徵的對象，那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款、合法的政治獻金、選舉補助款，這一類全部都是依照現行法令可以有的收入。如果從實證的經驗看起來，國民黨在過去七、八年來，有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎？沒有啊！那為什麼突然明年就會被執行？我是不太懂這個邏輯在哪裡，跟我們過去的經驗也不符合，所以朱主席對外表達的那個資訊應該是不正確的，因此特別在此再澄清一次。當然他說的時候，我們立刻在兩、三個小時內就發出澄清稿了，我想很多媒體也都登了，但是我想外界還是有一些人會誤會。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝林主委再次地協助澄清這件事情。再來我要問一下，因為其實黨產會在2016年的時候就認定中投跟欣裕台是國民黨的附隨組織，而且那時候也表示國民黨這些全部的股權都應該要收歸國有，後來他們就一路的上訴，結果打到了最高行政法院，這個判決也訴訟了七年，終於在今年1月的時候，最高行政法院判決確定中投跟欣裕台這兩家就是不當黨產，這個認定並沒有錯誤。既然現在法院都判決了，我想問一下，這兩家公司名下有156億的資產，你們現在追討的進度是如何？"],["林主任委員峯正：跟委員再說明一下，沒有錯，委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的，但是有一個部分我們必須要說，因為當時提起黨產訴訟其實有三個單位，一個是國民黨，國民黨部分就如委員剛剛說的，在1月二十幾號的時候它就敗訴確定了，另外中投公司跟欣裕台公司，他們本身也提起訴訟。所以還有兩件，這兩件原來在高等行政法院的時候，法院表示他們是不適格，他們沒有資格提起訴訟，因為他們不是股權的所有人，而是公司本身，因此當時就把訴訟駁回，可是他們上訴之後，現在最高行政法院又發回，所以那兩個案件目前反而還在高等行政法院訴訟當中，3月跟4月分別開過一次庭，是同一個法官，看起來法官應該會儘速處理，我想可能還要再幾個月，因為如果高等行政法院再把它駁回，那麼他們又依照其法律上的權利，又可以上訴到最高行政法院，所以可能還有兩個審級，因此我想可能半年會跑不掉。如果那兩個案子還沒有確認，變成我們的接管動作就沒辦法進行，因為沒有全案確定，但就國民黨部分已經確定了，這個是清楚的，所以在我看來，應該是樂觀的啦！因為主要的國民黨部分都已經敗訴確定，而另外兩個本來不應該有權利提起訴訟的公司，應該是不會有太大的問題，但希望我們的預判是正確的。"],["黃委員捷：OK，好，謝謝林主委的說明。再來我要請教一下，當然接下來半年可能還會來來回回，等其他兩個單位上訴的結果出來之後，你們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金？因為我比較想知道的是，最後真的這兩家公司的一些資產追討回來之後作為促轉基金，你們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面？"],["林主任委員峯正：我剛才也說明過了，就是依照促轉條例第七條，所有收回的黨產，不管它是什麼樣的形式，包括不動產、現金、公司的股權，這些都會回到行政院所設的促轉基金，它有監管委員會，但目前促轉基金的主管單位是國發會，我想他們會徵詢大家的意見來統一看要怎麼樣使用，做一個比較妥善的規劃。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝林主委的說明，請回座。"],["林主任委員峯正：謝謝。"],["黃委員捷：接下來我們先請人權處副處長。"],["主席：請人權處副處長。"],["黃委員捷：在副處長就位的同時，我先講一下，其實在2022年的時候，內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置補助作業要點，我有看到你們的要點內容，就是如果針對公共場所的威權塑像或是場館的空間進行移除或改名的話，內政部是願意補助的，最高的補助額度是10萬塊，只是我在今年2月29號看到的統計情形，現在列管的空間跟遺像有934件，可是已完成處置的只有165件，等於是進度不到兩成。我想請教一下，現在的問題是卡在哪裡？"],["石副處長樸：委員好、主席好。因為有關威權象徵的處置有很多不同的管有機關，包括中央政府、地方政府，在不同管有機關上面，內政部在威權處置上面仍然需要跟不同的管有機關來做溝通跟協調。補助的部分也就是用補助的誘因跟機關協調之後，如果機關也願意做一些相關的處理，包括對社會的溝通等等，它就可以來跟內政部申請。當然，另外一個部分是因為現在的管有機關裡面，有一部分是屬於在像國防部的軍營裡面，這部分在前幾個星期的輿論裡面也有提到，就是他們在整個部隊的傳統上面來講，在處置上面需要多所考量，這個部分行政院也都在跟不同的部會之間做更積極的溝通。"],["黃委員捷：好，這就是我希望來跟你們拜託的，就是政院其實應該要更積極的，不是被動的，也就是內政部願意提供補助，但是要看各地方、各單位願不願意申請，其實這樣子轉型正義的進度會非常地怠慢。","最後我要請教一下，就是中正紀念堂，這個已經是老掉牙的題目，但我們還是要有所進度，我還是再舉一下我們高雄的例子，高雄在2007年、十七年前，當時的陳菊市長、現在的陳菊院長，就已經把高雄市的「中正文化中心」改名為「文化中心」，不只是已改名，而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了。過了十七年，現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法來辦理，甚至沒有任何的進度，我不知道現在你們有什麼具體的進程是可以讓我們民眾來知道的嗎？"],["石副處長樸：有關中正紀念堂轉型的這一個案子，在行政院的推動轉型正義會報已經有成立一個專案小組在這邊執行，是由副院長來召集的……"],["黃委員捷：什麼時候可以拆？"],["石副處長樸：有關中正紀念堂的處理部分，文化部有在做規劃，他們也做了一些不同的社會溝通，因為在整個案子上面來講，各界還是有一些不同的意見在這邊做協調，不過行政院也已經很明確的指示文化部，拆或不拆這件事情可能需要多溝通，但是在沒有做成具體的建議之前，是不是能有一些比較短暫性的措施來做一些……"],["黃委員捷：像是什麼？"],["石副處長樸：比如像二二八的時候我們會關閉堂體的大門，來降低整個中正紀念堂一種威權化的意象，以上。"],["黃委員捷：好，我是希望像是憲兵交接這種崇拜的儀式，還有銅像的拆除，這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦！我當然知道行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖記憶日，這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義，可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑，我必須要再次的強調，這個時間真的是一刻不得怠慢，所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極、更加速，好嗎？"],["石副處長樸：好。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝。"],["石副處長樸：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員。","下一位請蘇巧慧委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-13","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃建賓","丁學忠","高金素梅","張智倫","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","黃國昌","麥玉珍","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 261.482, \"end\": 266.417, \"text\": \"作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 261.482, \"end\": 261.783, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 261.783, \"end\": 262.144, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 262.144, \"end\": 262.365, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 262.365, \"end\": 262.646, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 262.646, \"end\": 262.947, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 262.947, \"end\": 263.047, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 263.047, \"end\": 263.187, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.187, \"end\": 263.829, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 263.829, \"end\": 264.09, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 264.09, \"end\": 264.271, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.271, 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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 546.387, \"end\": 546.747, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 546.747, \"end\": 546.907, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 546.907, \"end\": 547.047, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 547.047, \"end\": 547.167, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 547.167, \"end\": 547.307, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 547.307, \"end\": 547.448, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 547.448, \"end\": 547.568, \"score\": 0.573}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 547.568, \"end\": 547.688, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 547.688, \"end\": 547.788, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 547.788, \"end\": 548.288, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 548.288, \"end\": 548.448, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 548.448, \"end\": 548.668, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 548.668, 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0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 553.437, \"end\": 553.597, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 553.597, \"end\": 553.758, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 553.758, \"end\": 553.898, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 553.898, \"end\": 553.958, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 553.958, \"end\": 554.098, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 554.098, \"end\": 554.179, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 554.179, \"end\": 554.379, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 554.379, \"end\": 554.519, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 554.519, \"end\": 554.539, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"厲\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,826 --> 00:00:01,627\n黨產會主委、民主委。\n\n2\n00:00:07,401 --> 00:00:35,363\n林主委好首先請教一個非常基本的問題因為上個月其實國民黨的黨主席他在會議的時候提到說我們執政黨可能會透過黨場會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款然後包括所有的國民黨收入當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們的這個合法的\n\n3\n00:00:36,164 --> 00:00:36,745\n獲得的收入嗎?\n\n4\n00:00:51,624 --> 00:01:17,084\n不當黨產的處理只是針對不當黨產如果你是合法的收入完全不受影響也就是不會成為認為處分跟追徵的對象那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款包括合法的政治獻金包括選舉補助款這一類的全部都是依照現行的法令可以有的收入那從實證的經驗看起來國民黨在過去七八年來有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:18,385 --> 00:01:21,967\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n6\n00:01:42,303 --> 00:01:48,627\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。INTERVIEWER三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。ittee\n\n7\n00:01:57,931 --> 00:01:59,251\n兩家公司名下有156億的資產。我們現在追討的進度是如何?\n\n8\n00:02:26,395 --> 00:02:43,015\n委員說明一下就是說沒有錯委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的但是有一個部分我們必須要說因為當時提起這個黨產訴訟其實有三個單位一個是國民黨那國民黨的部分就如委員剛剛說在1月20幾號的時候他就敗訴就確定了\n\n9\n00:02:44,477 --> 00:02:47,179\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n10\n00:03:11,312 --> 00:03:13,693\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n\n11\n00:03:32,641 --> 00:03:34,343\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n12\n00:03:56,192 --> 00:04:19,721\nOK好謝謝林主委的說明再來我也要請教一下就是接下來啦當然如果接下來半年可能還會來來回回那中等其他兩個單位現在上訴的結果出來之後那我們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金喔因為我比較想知道的是最後啦真的這兩家公司的這一些資產追討回來之後\n\n13\n00:04:21,482 --> 00:04:26,417\n作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?\n\n14\n00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:53,481\n我剛才也說明過了就是依照出產條例第7條所有收回的黨產不管它是什麼樣的形式包括不凍產包括現金包括公司的股權這個都會回到行政院所設的出產基金那麼它有監管委員會那目前這個出產基金主管的單位是國發會他們會我想會徵詢大家的意見來統一來看要怎麼樣使用做一個比較妥善的規劃好謝謝林主委的說明可以請回座那接下來我們先請人權處副處長\n\n15\n00:04:57,506 --> 00:04:59,688\n請我們人情處副處長副處長在就位的同時我來先講一下因為其實我們現在2022年的時候內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置的補助作業要點那我有看到你們這樣的要點內容\n\n16\n00:05:19,227 --> 00:05:23,648\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationofExcerpt\n\n17\n00:05:47,276 --> 00:06:01,512\n我想請教一下現在問題是卡在哪裡?委員好主席好因為這個補助啊因為有關這個未尋象徵的處置他有很多不同的管有機關包括有中央政府有包括有地方政府\n\n18\n00:06:24,392 --> 00:06:42,609\n當然另外一個部分是因為現在的這個管有機關裡面有一部分是屬於在像國防部的這個軍營裡面那這部分在國防部前幾個星期的這個輿論裡面有提到就是說他們在於這個整個部隊的傳統上面來講在處置上面需要多所考量\n\n19\n00:06:43,229 --> 00:06:45,330\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n20\n00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:34,685\n那最後我要請教一下就是中正紀念堂啦這個已經是老掉牙的題目但是我們還是要有所進度喔因為我還是再拿一下我們高雄的例子我們高雄在2007年17年前當時的陳菊市長現在的陳菊院長就已經把高雄市的中正文化中心改成為文化中心不只是以改名而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了那我不知道說過了17年現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法\n\n21\n00:07:36,945 --> 00:07:38,206\n﹐一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。��\n\n22\n00:08:00,799 --> 00:08:05,280\n中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationCommittee指示文化部猜不猜這件事情可能需要多溝通,但是在沒有做成具體的\n\n23\n00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,585\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n24\n00:08:39,485 --> 00:09:08,829\n好,我是希望像是聖兵交接啊這種崇拜的儀式還有同項的拆除這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦那我當然知道說呃行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖的記憶日那這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑必須要再次的強調這個時間真的是一刻不得待慢所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極更加速好嗎\n\n25\n00:09:09,329 --> 00:09:14,539\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n826\t1627\t黨產會主委、民主委。\n7401\t35363\t林主委好首先請教一個非常基本的問題因為上個月其實國民黨的黨主席他在會議的時候提到說我們執政黨可能會透過黨場會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款然後包括所有的國民黨收入當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們的這個合法的\n36164\t36745\t獲得的收入嗎?\n51624\t77084\t不當黨產的處理只是針對不當黨產如果你是合法的收入完全不受影響也就是不會成為認為處分跟追徵的對象那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款包括合法的政治獻金包括選舉補助款這一類的全部都是依照現行的法令可以有的收入那從實證的經驗看起來國民黨在過去七八年來有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎?\n78385\t81967\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n102303\t108627\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 INTERVIEWER三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。ittee\n117931\t119251\t兩家公司名下有156億的資產。我們現在追討的進度是如何?\n146395\t163015\t委員說明一下就是說沒有錯委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的但是有一個部分我們必須要說因為當時提起這個黨產訴訟其實有三個單位一個是國民黨那國民黨的部分就如委員剛剛說在1月20幾號的時候他就敗訴就確定了\n164477\t167179\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n191312\t193693\t三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n212641\t214343\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n236192\t259721\tOK好謝謝林主委的說明再來我也要請教一下就是接下來啦當然如果接下來半年可能還會來來回回那中等其他兩個單位現在上訴的結果出來之後那我們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金喔因為我比較想知道的是最後啦真的這兩家公司的這一些資產追討回來之後\n261482\t266417\t作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?\n266980\t293481\t我剛才也說明過了就是依照出產條例第7條所有收回的黨產不管它是什麼樣的形式包括不凍產包括現金包括公司的股權這個都會回到行政院所設的出產基金那麼它有監管委員會那目前這個出產基金主管的單位是國發會他們會我想會徵詢大家的意見來統一來看要怎麼樣使用做一個比較妥善的規劃好謝謝林主委的說明可以請回座那接下來我們先請人權處副處長\n297506\t299688\t請我們人情處副處長副處長在就位的同時我來先講一下因為其實我們現在2022年的時候內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置的補助作業要點那我有看到你們這樣的要點內容\n319227\t323648\t三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of Excerpt\n347276\t361512\t我想請教一下現在問題是卡在哪裡?委員好主席好因為這個補助啊因為有關這個未尋象徵的處置他有很多不同的管有機關包括有中央政府有包括有地方政府\n362193\t384292\t議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員\n384392\t402609\t當然另外一個部分是因為現在的這個管有機關裡面有一部分是屬於在像國防部的這個軍營裡面那這部分在國防部前幾個星期的這個輿論裡面有提到就是說他們在於這個整個部隊的傳統上面來講在處置上面需要多所考量\n403229\t405330\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n426796\t454685\t那最後我要請教一下就是中正紀念堂啦這個已經是老掉牙的題目但是我們還是要有所進度喔因為我還是再拿一下我們高雄的例子我們高雄在2007年17年前當時的陳菊市長現在的陳菊院長就已經把高雄市的中正文化中心改成為文化中心不只是以改名而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了那我不知道說過了17年現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法\n456945\t458206\t﹐一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。��\n480799\t485280\t中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation Committee指示文化部猜不猜這件事情可能需要多溝通,但是在沒有做成具體的\n505720\t508585\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n519485\t548829\t好,我是希望像是聖兵交接啊這種崇拜的儀式還有同項的拆除這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦那我當然知道說呃行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖的記憶日那這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑必須要再次的強調這個時間真的是一刻不得待慢所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極更加速好嗎\n549329\t554539\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n","txt":"黨產會主委、民主委。\n林主委好首先請教一個非常基本的問題因為上個月其實國民黨的黨主席他在會議的時候提到說我們執政黨可能會透過黨場會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款然後包括所有的國民黨收入當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們的這個合法的\n獲得的收入嗎?\n不當黨產的處理只是針對不當黨產如果你是合法的收入完全不受影響也就是不會成為認為處分跟追徵的對象那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款包括合法的政治獻金包括選舉補助款這一類的全部都是依照現行的法令可以有的收入那從實證的經驗看起來國民黨在過去七八年來有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎?\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 INTERVIEWER三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。ittee\n兩家公司名下有156億的資產。我們現在追討的進度是如何?\n委員說明一下就是說沒有錯委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的但是有一個部分我們必須要說因為當時提起這個黨產訴訟其實有三個單位一個是國民黨那國民黨的部分就如委員剛剛說在1月20幾號的時候他就敗訴就確定了\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\nOK好謝謝林主委的說明再來我也要請教一下就是接下來啦當然如果接下來半年可能還會來來回回那中等其他兩個單位現在上訴的結果出來之後那我們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金喔因為我比較想知道的是最後啦真的這兩家公司的這一些資產追討回來之後\n作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?\n我剛才也說明過了就是依照出產條例第7條所有收回的黨產不管它是什麼樣的形式包括不凍產包括現金包括公司的股權這個都會回到行政院所設的出產基金那麼它有監管委員會那目前這個出產基金主管的單位是國發會他們會我想會徵詢大家的意見來統一來看要怎麼樣使用做一個比較妥善的規劃好謝謝林主委的說明可以請回座那接下來我們先請人權處副處長\n請我們人情處副處長副處長在就位的同時我來先講一下因為其實我們現在2022年的時候內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置的補助作業要點那我有看到你們這樣的要點內容\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of Excerpt\n我想請教一下現在問題是卡在哪裡?委員好主席好因為這個補助啊因為有關這個未尋象徵的處置他有很多不同的管有機關包括有中央政府有包括有地方政府\n議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員\n當然另外一個部分是因為現在的這個管有機關裡面有一部分是屬於在像國防部的這個軍營裡面那這部分在國防部前幾個星期的這個輿論裡面有提到就是說他們在於這個整個部隊的傳統上面來講在處置上面需要多所考量\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n那最後我要請教一下就是中正紀念堂啦這個已經是老掉牙的題目但是我們還是要有所進度喔因為我還是再拿一下我們高雄的例子我們高雄在2007年17年前當時的陳菊市長現在的陳菊院長就已經把高雄市的中正文化中心改成為文化中心不只是以改名而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了那我不知道說過了17年現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法\n﹐一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。��\n中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation Committee指示文化部猜不猜這件事情可能需要多溝通,但是在沒有做成具體的\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n好,我是希望像是聖兵交接啊這種崇拜的儀式還有同項的拆除這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦那我當然知道說呃行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖的記憶日那這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑必須要再次的強調這個時間真的是一刻不得待慢所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極更加速好嗎\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.826 --> 00:01.627\n黨產會主委、民主委。\n\n00:07.401 --> 00:35.363\n林主委好首先請教一個非常基本的問題因為上個月其實國民黨的黨主席他在會議的時候提到說我們執政黨可能會透過黨場會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款然後包括所有的國民黨收入當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們的這個合法的\n\n00:36.164 --> 00:36.745\n獲得的收入嗎?\n\n00:51.624 --> 01:17.084\n不當黨產的處理只是針對不當黨產如果你是合法的收入完全不受影響也就是不會成為認為處分跟追徵的對象那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款包括合法的政治獻金包括選舉補助款這一類的全部都是依照現行的法令可以有的收入那從實證的經驗看起來國民黨在過去七八年來有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎?\n\n01:18.385 --> 01:21.967\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n01:42.303 --> 01:48.627\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。INTERVIEWER三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。ittee\n\n01:57.931 --> 01:59.251\n兩家公司名下有156億的資產。我們現在追討的進度是如何?\n\n02:26.395 --> 02:43.015\n委員說明一下就是說沒有錯委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的但是有一個部分我們必須要說因為當時提起這個黨產訴訟其實有三個單位一個是國民黨那國民黨的部分就如委員剛剛說在1月20幾號的時候他就敗訴就確定了\n\n02:44.477 --> 02:47.179\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n03:11.312 --> 03:13.693\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n\n03:32.641 --> 03:34.343\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n03:56.192 --> 04:19.721\nOK好謝謝林主委的說明再來我也要請教一下就是接下來啦當然如果接下來半年可能還會來來回回那中等其他兩個單位現在上訴的結果出來之後那我們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金喔因為我比較想知道的是最後啦真的這兩家公司的這一些資產追討回來之後\n\n04:21.482 --> 04:26.417\n作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?\n\n04:26.980 --> 04:53.481\n我剛才也說明過了就是依照出產條例第7條所有收回的黨產不管它是什麼樣的形式包括不凍產包括現金包括公司的股權這個都會回到行政院所設的出產基金那麼它有監管委員會那目前這個出產基金主管的單位是國發會他們會我想會徵詢大家的意見來統一來看要怎麼樣使用做一個比較妥善的規劃好謝謝林主委的說明可以請回座那接下來我們先請人權處副處長\n\n04:57.506 --> 04:59.688\n請我們人情處副處長副處長在就位的同時我來先講一下因為其實我們現在2022年的時候內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置的補助作業要點那我有看到你們這樣的要點內容\n\n05:19.227 --> 05:23.648\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationofExcerpt\n\n05:47.276 --> 06:01.512\n我想請教一下現在問題是卡在哪裡?委員好主席好因為這個補助啊因為有關這個未尋象徵的處置他有很多不同的管有機關包括有中央政府有包括有地方政府\n\n06:24.392 --> 06:42.609\n當然另外一個部分是因為現在的這個管有機關裡面有一部分是屬於在像國防部的這個軍營裡面那這部分在國防部前幾個星期的這個輿論裡面有提到就是說他們在於這個整個部隊的傳統上面來講在處置上面需要多所考量\n\n06:43.229 --> 06:45.330\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n07:06.796 --> 07:34.685\n那最後我要請教一下就是中正紀念堂啦這個已經是老掉牙的題目但是我們還是要有所進度喔因為我還是再拿一下我們高雄的例子我們高雄在2007年17年前當時的陳菊市長現在的陳菊院長就已經把高雄市的中正文化中心改成為文化中心不只是以改名而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了那我不知道說過了17年現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法\n\n07:36.945 --> 07:38.206\n﹐一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。��\n\n08:00.799 --> 08:05.280\n中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationCommittee指示文化部猜不猜這件事情可能需要多溝通,但是在沒有做成具體的\n\n08:25.720 --> 08:28.585\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n08:39.485 --> 09:08.829\n好,我是希望像是聖兵交接啊這種崇拜的儀式還有同項的拆除這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦那我當然知道說呃行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖的記憶日那這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑必須要再次的強調這個時間真的是一刻不得待慢所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極更加速好嗎\n\n09:09.329 --> 09:14.539\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.826,"end":1.627,"text":"黨產會主委、民主委。"},{"start":7.401,"end":35.363,"text":"林主委好首先請教一個非常基本的問題因為上個月其實國民黨的黨主席他在會議的時候提到說我們執政黨可能會透過黨場會來沒收未來四年他們的政黨補助款然後包括所有的國民黨收入當然這個我相信你們已經澄清過很多次了是不是藉這個機會再跟大家澄清一下你們會追討這些政黨補助款來成為你們的這個合法的"},{"start":36.164,"end":36.745,"text":"獲得的收入嗎?"},{"start":51.624,"end":77.084,"text":"不當黨產的處理只是針對不當黨產如果你是合法的收入完全不受影響也就是不會成為認為處分跟追徵的對象那裡面當然會包括政黨補助款包括合法的政治獻金包括選舉補助款這一類的全部都是依照現行的法令可以有的收入那從實證的經驗看起來國民黨在過去七八年來有哪一年的政黨補助款被黨產會執行了嗎?"},{"start":78.385,"end":81.967,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon"},{"start":102.303,"end":108.627,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 INTERVIEWER三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。ittee"},{"start":117.931,"end":119.251,"text":"兩家公司名下有156億的資產。我們現在追討的進度是如何?"},{"start":146.395,"end":163.015,"text":"委員說明一下就是說沒有錯委員剛剛的資訊都是正確的但是有一個部分我們必須要說因為當時提起這個黨產訴訟其實有三個單位一個是國民黨那國民黨的部分就如委員剛剛說在1月20幾號的時候他就敗訴就確定了"},{"start":164.477,"end":167.179,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":191.312,"end":193.693,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案"},{"start":212.641,"end":214.343,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":236.192,"end":259.721,"text":"OK好謝謝林主委的說明再來我也要請教一下就是接下來啦當然如果接下來半年可能還會來來回回那中等其他兩個單位現在上訴的結果出來之後那我們接下來會如何使用這一些促轉基金喔因為我比較想知道的是最後啦真的這兩家公司的這一些資產追討回來之後"},{"start":261.482,"end":266.417,"text":"作為促轉基金,我們是不是會完全的使用在人權相關的推動上面?"},{"start":266.98,"end":293.481,"text":"我剛才也說明過了就是依照出產條例第7條所有收回的黨產不管它是什麼樣的形式包括不凍產包括現金包括公司的股權這個都會回到行政院所設的出產基金那麼它有監管委員會那目前這個出產基金主管的單位是國發會他們會我想會徵詢大家的意見來統一來看要怎麼樣使用做一個比較妥善的規劃好謝謝林主委的說明可以請回座那接下來我們先請人權處副處長"},{"start":297.506,"end":299.688,"text":"請我們人情處副處長副處長在就位的同時我來先講一下因為其實我們現在2022年的時候內政部有一個條例是推動威權象徵處置的補助作業要點那我有看到你們這樣的要點內容"},{"start":319.227,"end":323.648,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of Excerpt"},{"start":347.276,"end":361.512,"text":"我想請教一下現在問題是卡在哪裡?委員好主席好因為這個補助啊因為有關這個未尋象徵的處置他有很多不同的管有機關包括有中央政府有包括有地方政府"},{"start":362.193,"end":384.292,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":384.392,"end":402.609,"text":"當然另外一個部分是因為現在的這個管有機關裡面有一部分是屬於在像國防部的這個軍營裡面那這部分在國防部前幾個星期的這個輿論裡面有提到就是說他們在於這個整個部隊的傳統上面來講在處置上面需要多所考量"},{"start":403.229,"end":405.33,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon"},{"start":426.796,"end":454.685,"text":"那最後我要請教一下就是中正紀念堂啦這個已經是老掉牙的題目但是我們還是要有所進度喔因為我還是再拿一下我們高雄的例子我們高雄在2007年17年前當時的陳菊市長現在的陳菊院長就已經把高雄市的中正文化中心改成為文化中心不只是以改名而且把蔣中正的銅像都已經移除了那我不知道說過了17年現在中正紀念堂卻沒有辦法"},{"start":456.945,"end":458.206,"text":"﹐一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。��"},{"start":480.799,"end":485.28,"text":"中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation Committee指示文化部猜不猜這件事情可能需要多溝通,但是在沒有做成具體的"},{"start":505.72,"end":508.585,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":519.485,"end":548.829,"text":"好,我是希望像是聖兵交接啊這種崇拜的儀式還有同項的拆除這其實都是應該要優先來做的啦那我當然知道說呃行政院在18號的時候有核定通過5月19號是白色恐怖的記憶日那這個當然有助於我們的集體記憶來做轉型正義可是轉型正義就是在跟時間賽跑必須要再次的強調這個時間真的是一刻不得待慢所以我還是希望政院在這整件事情上面可以更積極更加速好嗎"},{"start":549.329,"end":554.539,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"}]}}}}