{"id":151507,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151507","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c33643457db4b9bbd826cff82116bdf94ca8dcb4691eb09bf4e22b2717c1df6d4f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"09:43:21 - 09:53:57","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、交通部、經濟部、內政部警政署就「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":636,"end_time":"2024-04-22T09:53:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T09:43:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":348,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（9時43分）主席好。有請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：廖委員早。"],["廖委員偉翔：薛部長早。部長，今天專報的主題是「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」，但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料，你們在源頭管理的部分，只有提到檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管，請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：這裡面應該是以機車為主。"],["廖委員偉翔：全部都是機車嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證。請問部長，汽車其實也有改裝排氣管，還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染，為何這份報告裡面沒有？"],["薛部長富盛：我想這是未來下一階段可以去思考，剛剛陳委員也特別提到，我們現在重點是擺在機車，下一階段汽車也應該可以納管，但是針對噪音超標的處罰是不分汽機車，只要噪音超過標準，我們就會裁罰。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你們未來也會趕快加速對汽車的部分。"],["薛部長富盛：對，我覺得應該要這樣做。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，這個部分提醒你們一下，應該也要來做。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來，我們可以看到，環保署在108年3月的時候，有一個標案叫做「機動車輛噪音聯合稽查、排氣管認證及管制計畫」，這三百多萬的標案是由凱鉅科技實業股份有限公司標得。在109年7月份也有另外一個標，同樣的標案是八百多萬的，這個部分改為歐怡科技股份有限公司標得。我去查了一下歷年的得標紀錄，這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟環境部的常客，我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧？"],["薛部長富盛：我們同仁或許熟悉，我個人是不太清楚，因為我沒有介入到相關的細節。"],["廖委員偉翔：在112年的時候，歐怡公司也得標了112年行政院環境保護署大氣環境司強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計畫，這個算是一個顧問案，它的內容主要是掌握縣市環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形，以及提供技術支援彙整更新各縣市車輛噪音聲音照相科技執法設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果，瞭解環保署在前瞻計畫移撥各縣市移動式聲音照相設備的營運情形，並撰擬常見的問題與回復內容供環保局參考。還有，在營建工程噪音微型感測器的評估應用及強化源頭管制的策略。另外，蒐集國上至少三個先進國家運用噪音微型感測器於營建工程及室外環境相關噪音監測的案例。還有，針對民眾陳情營建工程的噪音案件進行分析。簡單來講，它就是一個類似顧問案，顧問案完之後，它是不是有建議要採購，所以在10月的時候，這個歐怡公司又得標了一個112年行政院環境保護署大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案，是嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：廖委員可不可以請我們大氣司張司長來回答，因為這個內容我不是那麼清楚。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，可以。"],["張司長順欽：跟委員報告，這兩個計畫性質是不一樣的，聲音照相本身來講，我們從110年就開始採購，所以跟112年4月份的這個計畫是沒有什麼關聯，110年就採購第一批22套。112年10月這個是第二批採購21套。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，但是很神奇的事情就是歐怡公司在得標顧問案之後，在10月份又得標了這個採購案，不過沒關係。歐怡科技決標了，金額大概是一千八百多萬，可是你們這裡面有提到「該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格及通過儀器比測經本署完成測試驗收合格，方撥付該套次尾款」，也就是必須要有人來檢測它對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你知道檢測的公司是哪一家嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我不清楚。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK，這個檢測的公司就是所謂的凱鉅科技公司，就是這家凱鉅科技公司檢測的，我們去查了一下，歐怡公司跟凱鉅根本就是同一家公司，第一個證據，他們共用網站，而且公司設立的地址也相同；第二個證據，它的董監事都是余姓家族相互擔任董監事。所以你這樣看起來，它是不是同一家公司、背後算不算同一批人？"],["薛部長富盛：應該是類似同一個集團裡面的公司，假如甚至連網頁也都一起，當然就是同一批，但是這個跟前面的購案，我不曉得有沒有直接……"],["廖委員偉翔：就是它採購了這個器材的標案，依據政府採購法施行細則第三十八條的第一項第四款和第五款，簡單來講，政府辦理採購，有利益衝突的時候，要在採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為。請問這個標案的合約裡面有沒有寫？有沒有明確載明？"],["薛部長富盛：這個產品假如環境部去採購，將來驗收是環境部來驗收，而不是……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是剛剛檢測公司就是另外一家，如果你們驗收了，那不就是同一家公司自己……"],["薛部長富盛：我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經結案還是怎樣，我請我們司長跟委員報告。"],["張司長順欽：跟委員報告，目前驗收部分還在進行當中，所以還沒有驗收。"],["廖委員偉翔：還沒有驗收，所以……"],["張司長順欽：所以還沒有付那個……"],["廖委員偉翔：你們知道這是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎？自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎？"],["張司長順欽：之前不清楚之間的關聯。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以是我現在提出來，你們才清楚？"],["薛部長富盛：針對這個問題，我們再來進一步釐清，但是據我們所瞭解，很多儀器製造商本身在公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的部門，如果是那個部門出具證明說這個產品是合格的，接下來就要看我們……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我告訴你，其實明明有其他實驗室……"],["薛部長富盛：請購單位要不要接受他的認證。"],["廖委員偉翔：簡單來講，這件事情的邏輯就是歐怡公司跟凱鉅公司是同一間公司，歐怡提供的儀器比測報告是由凱鉅公司檢測的，這個情況的邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的：「裁判、球證、旁證全是我的人，你怎麼和我鬥？」這就是球員兼裁判啊！根據貴部環境研究院的公開資料，儀器比測至少有6家公司可以做，為何這個案子就是由凱鉅來做？這不就是接案、驗收一條龍嘛！環境部政風處還在嗎？還有功能嗎？還是裝睡的人叫不醒？還是說他根本就不知道、被蒙在鼓裡，然後在眼皮底下就讓他過去？如果今天我沒有提出來，你們是不是完全不知道這件事，然後也沒有去做這個檢查？"],["薛部長富盛：廖委員，這樣子啦！假如有任何不法，非常歡迎去舉發，這個案子剛剛張司長也提到還沒有結案，我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係怎麼樣，反正就是我們絕不護短……"],["廖委員偉翔：絕不護短？"],["薛部長富盛：假如有違法的地方，歡迎去舉發，這個是我身為部長的態度，絕不護短，非常清楚。"],["廖委員偉翔：很好，那我希望貴部儘快調查，如果有任何不法，也請檢調來儘速調查……"],["薛部長富盛：好，我會來瞭解情況。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為這幾年從環保署到環境部的預算，其實最大的問題就在於委外辦理的經費是各部會第一名，連立法院預算中心都點名過委外經費過高的問題，這代表什麼意思？基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務委辦給外部廠商，所以環境部就只能任由廠商予取予求，像剛剛這個案子就非常像，廠商叫你們開什麼標，請問環境部有能力說不嗎？現在連驗收的部分，得標廠商也找了自己的檢測公司，你們可能也是被蒙在鼓裡，直到現在才知道，他們在你們眼皮底下大喇喇的這樣圖利，你們都不曉得，是不是這樣的案子太多，而這只是其中一件？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上廖委員也可能有一些地方言過其實，因為這個問題去年預算審查的時候，我也認同委員的意見，認為環境部委外比例偏高，回去後我自己也初步瞭解……"],["廖委員偉翔：是，所以你也認同嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：有一些委外事實上是因為它的性質，譬如包括跟地方……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，不用扯這麼多，我只是想說針對這樣的事件發生，請貴部回去可以好好把事情調查清楚……"],["薛部長富盛：好，我們來瞭解一下，但是也請委員……"],["廖委員偉翔：到時候如果有問題的話，是不是把相關資料……"],["薛部長富盛：假如有不法的地方，歡迎民眾舉發，我個人絕對……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒有問題，如果有需要，我們會把這些資料提供給檢調，但是我現在在質詢臺上告訴你這件事情，就是希望你們也好好去調查這件事。"],["薛部長富盛：好，瞭解，可以。是，沒問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝廖委員，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝廖偉翔委員。","接下來請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","王育敏","盧縣一","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","李坤城","林德福","林淑芬","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 452.281, \"end\": 452.461, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 452.461, \"end\": 452.821, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 452.821, \"end\": 452.941, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 452.941, \"end\": 453.041, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 453.041, \"end\": 453.301, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 453.301, \"end\": 453.422, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 453.422, \"end\": 453.622, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 453.622, \"end\": 453.842, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 453.842, \"end\": 453.982, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 453.982, \"end\": 454.082, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"明\", 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\"end\": 633.276, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 633.276, \"end\": 633.376, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 633.376, \"end\": 633.816, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 633.816, \"end\": 633.836, \"score\": 0.091}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:21,454 --> 00:00:22,755\n好主席好有請部長請學部長\n\n2\n00:00:28,510 --> 00:00:54,183\n好廖委員早學部長早部長今天的這個專報的主題是噪音管制跟加速推動排氣管噪音認證但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料你們在源頭管理的部分只有提到這個檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎這裡面應該是以汽車為主\n\n3\n00:00:55,805 --> 00:01:08,285\n所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證請問部長但是汽車其實也有改裝排氣管還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染為何這份報告裡面沒有\n\n4\n00:01:09,658 --> 00:01:38,037\n這個未來我想是下一階段可以去思考剛剛陳委員也特別提到就是說我們現在重點是擺在機車那下一階段應該汽車也應該可以納管但是針對噪音超標的一個處罰的是不分汽機車不要噪音超過那個標準所以你們未來也會趕快加速把這個對汽車的部分好那這個部分提醒你們一下應該也要來做\n\n5\n00:01:38,817 --> 00:01:41,962\n好謝謝再來部長我們可以看到喔\n\n6\n00:01:42,731 --> 00:02:10,163\n在我們環保署108年的時候3月有一個標案叫做機動車輛噪音聯合機查和排氣管認證及管制計畫這300多萬的標案是由一位凱聚科技實業股份有限公司標德那在109年的時候7月份也有另外一個標同樣的標案他是800多萬的那這個部分呢改叫做歐宜科技股份有限公司標德\n\n7\n00:02:11,650 --> 00:02:30,151\n好那我想這個環境部喔因為去查了一下歷年的這個得標記錄這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟我們環境部的常客我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧呃我們同年或許熟悉我個人是不太清楚是因為我沒有介入到這個好那下一頁\n\n8\n00:02:31,892 --> 00:02:48,644\n在這個112年的時候這個OE公司也得標了一個就是112年行政院保護署這個環境保護署的大氣環境司的強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計劃\n\n9\n00:02:49,985 --> 00:03:09,591\n這個算是一個顧問案,那它的內容主要是講說掌握縣市的環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形以及提供技術資源,彙整更新各縣市的車輛噪音聲音還有照相科技執法的設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果\n\n10\n00:03:10,211 --> 00:03:27,418\n那瞭解本署在這個前瞻計畫移波各縣市移動式的聲音照相設備的營運情形並篆擬常見的問題與回覆內容供環保局參考還有在營建工程的這個噪音微型感測器的評估應用\n\n11\n00:03:28,398 --> 00:03:50,914\n強化源頭管制的策略還有收集國際上至少三個先進國家運用這個噪音微型感測器跟營建工程還有相關室外環境相關的這個噪音監測的案例所以針對民眾陳情這個營建工程的噪音案件進行分析好簡單來講它就是一個類似顧問案那顧問案完之後\n\n12\n00:03:51,795 --> 00:04:03,944\n他是不是有建議要採購所以你們在10月的時候這個OE公司又得標了一個112年行政院這個環境保護署的大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案是嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:07,488 --> 00:04:29,777\n呃,廖委員可不可以請我們大氣師張市長來回答因為我這個內容我不是那麼清楚齁跟委員報告這兩個計畫是性質是不一樣的那聲音照相本身來講我們從110年就開始採購所以跟這個112年這個4月份的這個計畫來講是沒有什麼關聯110年就採購第一批22套那這個112年10月這個是採入第二批採過那個21套\n\n14\n00:04:36,500 --> 00:05:04,590\n對,但是很神奇的事情就是這個OE公司在得標的顧問案之後在10月份就是又得標了這個採購案好,不過沒關係下一頁喔OE科技決標了這個金額大概是1800多萬的金額喔可是你們這裡面有說該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格跟通過儀器的筆測經本署完成測試驗收合格方撥付該套次的尾款\n\n15\n00:05:05,330 --> 00:05:25,891\n也就是說他必須要有人來檢測他對不對那你知道部長你知道他檢測的檢測的公司是哪一家嗎不清楚OK這個他檢測的公司呢就是所謂的凱聚科技科技公司喔就是這家凱聚科技公司檢測的那下一頁\n\n16\n00:05:28,874 --> 00:05:53,017\n基本上我們去查了一下這個歐宜公司跟這個凱聚他根本就是同一家公司第一個證據他們共用網站而且他公司設立的地址也相同第二個證據他的董監事都是這個魚性家族相互擔任董監事所以你這樣看起來他是不是同一家公司背後算不算同一批人\n\n17\n00:05:54,532 --> 00:06:09,244\n應該是同一個類似集團裡面的公司假如說甚至連網頁也都一起那當然就是同一期但是這個跟前面的構案我不曉得有沒有他就是這個標案就是他採購了這個器材的標案是\n\n18\n00:06:10,427 --> 00:06:30,487\n所以政府採購法裡面有施行細則的第38條的第一項第4和第5款政府辦理這個採購的時候簡單來講就是有利益衝突的時候要在我們的採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為請問我們這個標案裡面的合約裡面有沒有寫有沒有明確的載明\n\n19\n00:06:32,943 --> 00:06:48,675\n這個產品假如環境部去採購將來驗收是環境部來驗收啦但是剛剛檢測就是檢測公司就是另外一家那你們驗收了這不就是同一家公司自己我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經就結案了還是怎麼樣\n\n20\n00:06:49,755 --> 00:07:08,372\n我請我們市長來講一下跟委員報告一下目前這個驗收部分還在進行當中所以還沒有驗收還沒有驗收所以那你們知道它是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎之前不清楚之間的這個關聯所以我現在提出來你們才清楚\n\n21\n00:07:10,859 --> 00:07:31,720\n事實上這種問題我們再來進一步釐清但是我們所了解很多在儀器的製造商他本身那家公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的這個部門那那個部門假如去這個出去證明說這個產品是合格接下來就看\n\n22\n00:07:32,281 --> 00:07:56,192\n好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊\n\n23\n00:07:56,972 --> 00:08:17,798\n那根據貴部環境這個研究院的公開資料一氣的比測至少有6家可以做為何這家這個案子就是由愷俱來做這不就是接案驗收一條龍嗎?環境部的陣風處還在嗎?還有功能嗎?還是說裝睡的人叫不醒還是說他根本就不知道被蒙在鼓底或是在眼皮底下讓他過去\n\n24\n00:08:19,258 --> 00:08:42,999\n因為如果今天沒有提出來是不是你們完全不知道這件事然後也沒有去做這個檢查是當廖委員這樣子假如有任何不法非常歡迎去舉發那這個案子因為剛剛我們張市長講還沒有結案那我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係什麼樣反正就是我們絕不負短假如回返\n\n25\n00:08:44,625 --> 00:09:12,017\n在違法的地方歡迎去舉花這個是我身為部長的一個態度絕不護短非常清楚很好那我希望貴部盡快的調查如果有任何不法請現在也請檢調來進行調查然後因為這幾年環保署從環保署到環境部的預算其實最大的問題就是委外辦理的經費也是各部會的第一名連立法院的預算中心也都點名過委外經費過高的問題\n\n26\n00:09:13,942 --> 00:09:39,582\n所以這代表什麼意思啊基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務也都委辦給外部的廠商所以環境部就只能夠任由廠商予取予求像剛剛這個樣子也非常像喔廠商叫你們開什麼標請問環境部有能力說不嗎現在連驗收的部分則得標廠商也自己找了自己檢測公司你們可能也都被蒙在鼓底直到現在才知道在你們眼皮底下喔大剌剌的這樣圖利\n\n27\n00:09:41,443 --> 00:09:57,729\n這樣子你們都不曉得,是不是這樣案子太多,還是就只是其中一件?事實上,廖委員可能也有一些地方大概言過其實,因為這個問題去年在預算審查的時候,我也認同委員說環境部的委外比例偏高,那我回去也初步的了解一下,有一些\n\n28\n00:09:59,349 --> 00:10:19,508\n委員會事實上他是因為他那個性質比如說包括跟地方部長沒有我們不用扯這麼多我只想說我們針對這件事情也可以看到這樣的事件的發生那我也請貴部可以回去好好把這件事情調查清楚我們來瞭解一下啦也請這個是不是把相關資料到時候如果有問題的話請委員找有不法的地方歡迎這個民眾去舉發我個人\n\n29\n00:10:23,291 --> 00:10:33,836\n沒有問題我們會把這個資料如果有需要我們會提供跟檢調但是我現在在質詢台上告訴你這件事情就是希望你們也好好的去調查這件事了解可以是好謝謝好謝謝廖委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21454\t22755\t好主席好有請部長請學部長\n28510\t54183\t好 廖委員早學部長早部長今天的這個專報的主題是噪音管制跟加速推動排氣管噪音認證但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料你們在源頭管理的部分只有提到這個檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎這裡面應該是以汽車為主\n55805\t68285\t所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證請問部長但是汽車其實也有改裝排氣管還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染為何這份報告裡面沒有\n69658\t98037\t這個未來我想是下一階段可以去思考剛剛陳委員也特別提到就是說我們現在重點是擺在機車那下一階段應該汽車也應該可以納管但是針對噪音超標的一個處罰的是不分汽機車不要噪音超過那個標準所以你們未來也會趕快加速把這個對汽車的部分好那這個部分提醒你們一下應該也要來做\n98817\t101962\t好 謝謝再來部長我們可以看到喔\n102731\t130163\t在我們環保署108年的時候3月有一個標案叫做機動車輛噪音聯合機查和排氣管認證及管制計畫這300多萬的標案是由一位凱聚科技實業股份有限公司標德那在109年的時候7月份也有另外一個標同樣的標案他是800多萬的那這個部分呢改叫做歐宜科技股份有限公司標德\n131650\t150151\t好那我想這個環境部喔因為去查了一下歷年的這個得標記錄這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟我們環境部的常客我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧呃我們同年或許熟悉我個人是不太清楚是因為我沒有介入到這個好那下一頁\n151892\t168644\t在這個112年的時候這個OE公司也得標了一個就是112年行政院保護署這個環境保護署的大氣環境司的強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計劃\n169985\t189591\t這個算是一個顧問案,那它的內容主要是講說掌握縣市的環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形以及提供技術資源,彙整更新各縣市的車輛噪音聲音還有照相科技執法的設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果\n190211\t207418\t那瞭解本署在這個前瞻計畫移波各縣市移動式的聲音照相設備的營運情形並篆擬常見的問題與回覆內容供環保局參考還有在營建工程的這個噪音微型感測器的評估應用\n208398\t230914\t強化源頭管制的策略還有收集國際上至少三個先進國家運用這個噪音微型感測器跟營建工程還有相關室外環境相關的這個噪音監測的案例所以針對民眾陳情這個營建工程的噪音案件進行分析好簡單來講它就是一個類似顧問案那顧問案完之後\n231795\t243944\t他是不是有建議要採購所以你們在10月的時候這個OE公司又得標了一個112年行政院這個環境保護署的大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案是嗎?\n247488\t269777\t呃,廖委員可不可以請我們大氣師張市長來回答因為我這個內容我不是那麼清楚齁跟委員報告這兩個計畫是性質是不一樣的那聲音照相本身來講我們從110年就開始採購所以跟這個112年這個4月份的這個計畫來講是沒有什麼關聯110年就採購第一批22套那這個112年10月這個是採入第二批採過那個21套\n276500\t304590\t對,但是很神奇的事情就是這個OE公司在得標的顧問案之後在10月份就是又得標了這個採購案好,不過沒關係下一頁喔OE科技決標了這個金額大概是1800多萬的金額喔可是你們這裡面有說該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格跟通過儀器的筆測經本署完成測試驗收合格方撥付該套次的尾款\n305330\t325891\t也就是說他必須要有人來檢測他對不對那你知道部長你知道他檢測的檢測的公司是哪一家嗎不清楚OK這個他檢測的公司呢就是所謂的凱聚科技科技公司喔就是這家凱聚科技公司檢測的那下一頁\n328874\t353017\t基本上我們去查了一下這個歐宜公司跟這個凱聚他根本就是同一家公司第一個證據他們共用網站而且他公司設立的地址也相同第二個證據他的董監事都是這個魚性家族相互擔任董監事所以你這樣看起來他是不是同一家公司背後算不算同一批人\n354532\t369244\t應該是同一個類似集團裡面的公司假如說甚至連網頁也都一起那當然就是同一期但是這個跟前面的構案我不曉得有沒有他就是這個標案就是他採購了這個器材的標案是\n370427\t390487\t所以政府採購法裡面有施行細則的第38條的第一項第4和第5款政府辦理這個採購的時候簡單來講就是有利益衝突的時候要在我們的採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為請問我們這個標案裡面的合約裡面有沒有寫有沒有明確的載明\n392943\t408675\t這個產品假如環境部去採購將來驗收是環境部來驗收啦但是剛剛檢測就是檢測公司就是另外一家那你們驗收了這不就是同一家公司自己我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經就結案了還是怎麼樣\n409755\t428372\t我請我們市長來講一下跟委員報告一下目前這個驗收部分還在進行當中所以還沒有驗收還沒有驗收所以那你們知道它是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎之前不清楚之間的這個關聯所以我現在提出來你們才清楚\n430859\t451720\t事實上這種問題我們再來進一步釐清但是我們所了解很多在儀器的製造商他本身那家公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的這個部門那那個部門假如去這個出去證明說這個產品是合格接下來就看\n452281\t476192\t好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊\n476972\t497798\t那根據貴部環境這個研究院的公開資料一氣的比測至少有6家可以做為何這家這個案子就是由愷俱來做這不就是接案驗收一條龍嗎?環境部的陣風處還在嗎?還有功能嗎?還是說裝睡的人叫不醒還是說他根本就不知道被蒙在鼓底或是在眼皮底下讓他過去\n499258\t522999\t因為如果今天沒有提出來是不是你們完全不知道這件事然後也沒有去做這個檢查是當廖委員這樣子假如有任何不法非常歡迎去舉發那這個案子因為剛剛我們張市長講還沒有結案那我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係什麼樣反正就是我們絕不負短假如回返\n524625\t552017\t在違法的地方歡迎去舉花這個是我身為部長的一個態度絕不護短非常清楚很好那我希望貴部盡快的調查如果有任何不法請現在也請檢調來進行調查然後因為這幾年環保署從環保署到環境部的預算其實最大的問題就是委外辦理的經費也是各部會的第一名連立法院的預算中心也都點名過委外經費過高的問題\n553942\t579582\t所以這代表什麼意思啊基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務也都委辦給外部的廠商所以環境部就只能夠任由廠商予取予求像剛剛這個樣子也非常像喔廠商叫你們開什麼標請問環境部有能力說不嗎現在連驗收的部分則得標廠商也自己找了自己檢測公司你們可能也都被蒙在鼓底直到現在才知道在你們眼皮底下喔大剌剌的這樣圖利\n581443\t597729\t這樣子你們都不曉得,是不是這樣案子太多,還是就只是其中一件?事實上,廖委員可能也有一些地方大概言過其實,因為這個問題去年在預算審查的時候,我也認同委員說環境部的委外比例偏高,那我回去也初步的了解一下,有一些\n599349\t619508\t委員會事實上他是因為他那個性質比如說包括跟地方部長沒有我們不用扯這麼多我只想說我們針對這件事情也可以看到這樣的事件的發生那我也請貴部可以回去好好把這件事情調查清楚我們來瞭解一下啦也請這個是不是把相關資料到時候如果有問題的話請委員找有不法的地方歡迎這個民眾去舉發我個人\n623291\t633836\t沒有問題我們會把這個資料如果有需要我們會提供跟檢調但是我現在在質詢台上告訴你這件事情就是希望你們也好好的去調查這件事了解可以是好謝謝好謝謝廖委員好謝謝\n","txt":"好主席好有請部長請學部長\n好 廖委員早學部長早部長今天的這個專報的主題是噪音管制跟加速推動排氣管噪音認證但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料你們在源頭管理的部分只有提到這個檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎這裡面應該是以汽車為主\n所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證請問部長但是汽車其實也有改裝排氣管還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染為何這份報告裡面沒有\n這個未來我想是下一階段可以去思考剛剛陳委員也特別提到就是說我們現在重點是擺在機車那下一階段應該汽車也應該可以納管但是針對噪音超標的一個處罰的是不分汽機車不要噪音超過那個標準所以你們未來也會趕快加速把這個對汽車的部分好那這個部分提醒你們一下應該也要來做\n好 謝謝再來部長我們可以看到喔\n在我們環保署108年的時候3月有一個標案叫做機動車輛噪音聯合機查和排氣管認證及管制計畫這300多萬的標案是由一位凱聚科技實業股份有限公司標德那在109年的時候7月份也有另外一個標同樣的標案他是800多萬的那這個部分呢改叫做歐宜科技股份有限公司標德\n好那我想這個環境部喔因為去查了一下歷年的這個得標記錄這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟我們環境部的常客我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧呃我們同年或許熟悉我個人是不太清楚是因為我沒有介入到這個好那下一頁\n在這個112年的時候這個OE公司也得標了一個就是112年行政院保護署這個環境保護署的大氣環境司的強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計劃\n這個算是一個顧問案,那它的內容主要是講說掌握縣市的環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形以及提供技術資源,彙整更新各縣市的車輛噪音聲音還有照相科技執法的設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果\n那瞭解本署在這個前瞻計畫移波各縣市移動式的聲音照相設備的營運情形並篆擬常見的問題與回覆內容供環保局參考還有在營建工程的這個噪音微型感測器的評估應用\n強化源頭管制的策略還有收集國際上至少三個先進國家運用這個噪音微型感測器跟營建工程還有相關室外環境相關的這個噪音監測的案例所以針對民眾陳情這個營建工程的噪音案件進行分析好簡單來講它就是一個類似顧問案那顧問案完之後\n他是不是有建議要採購所以你們在10月的時候這個OE公司又得標了一個112年行政院這個環境保護署的大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案是嗎?\n呃,廖委員可不可以請我們大氣師張市長來回答因為我這個內容我不是那麼清楚齁跟委員報告這兩個計畫是性質是不一樣的那聲音照相本身來講我們從110年就開始採購所以跟這個112年這個4月份的這個計畫來講是沒有什麼關聯110年就採購第一批22套那這個112年10月這個是採入第二批採過那個21套\n對,但是很神奇的事情就是這個OE公司在得標的顧問案之後在10月份就是又得標了這個採購案好,不過沒關係下一頁喔OE科技決標了這個金額大概是1800多萬的金額喔可是你們這裡面有說該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格跟通過儀器的筆測經本署完成測試驗收合格方撥付該套次的尾款\n也就是說他必須要有人來檢測他對不對那你知道部長你知道他檢測的檢測的公司是哪一家嗎不清楚OK這個他檢測的公司呢就是所謂的凱聚科技科技公司喔就是這家凱聚科技公司檢測的那下一頁\n基本上我們去查了一下這個歐宜公司跟這個凱聚他根本就是同一家公司第一個證據他們共用網站而且他公司設立的地址也相同第二個證據他的董監事都是這個魚性家族相互擔任董監事所以你這樣看起來他是不是同一家公司背後算不算同一批人\n應該是同一個類似集團裡面的公司假如說甚至連網頁也都一起那當然就是同一期但是這個跟前面的構案我不曉得有沒有他就是這個標案就是他採購了這個器材的標案是\n所以政府採購法裡面有施行細則的第38條的第一項第4和第5款政府辦理這個採購的時候簡單來講就是有利益衝突的時候要在我們的採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為請問我們這個標案裡面的合約裡面有沒有寫有沒有明確的載明\n這個產品假如環境部去採購將來驗收是環境部來驗收啦但是剛剛檢測就是檢測公司就是另外一家那你們驗收了這不就是同一家公司自己我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經就結案了還是怎麼樣\n我請我們市長來講一下跟委員報告一下目前這個驗收部分還在進行當中所以還沒有驗收還沒有驗收所以那你們知道它是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎之前不清楚之間的這個關聯所以我現在提出來你們才清楚\n事實上這種問題我們再來進一步釐清但是我們所了解很多在儀器的製造商他本身那家公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的這個部門那那個部門假如去這個出去證明說這個產品是合格接下來就看\n好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊\n那根據貴部環境這個研究院的公開資料一氣的比測至少有6家可以做為何這家這個案子就是由愷俱來做這不就是接案驗收一條龍嗎?環境部的陣風處還在嗎?還有功能嗎?還是說裝睡的人叫不醒還是說他根本就不知道被蒙在鼓底或是在眼皮底下讓他過去\n因為如果今天沒有提出來是不是你們完全不知道這件事然後也沒有去做這個檢查是當廖委員這樣子假如有任何不法非常歡迎去舉發那這個案子因為剛剛我們張市長講還沒有結案那我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係什麼樣反正就是我們絕不負短假如回返\n在違法的地方歡迎去舉花這個是我身為部長的一個態度絕不護短非常清楚很好那我希望貴部盡快的調查如果有任何不法請現在也請檢調來進行調查然後因為這幾年環保署從環保署到環境部的預算其實最大的問題就是委外辦理的經費也是各部會的第一名連立法院的預算中心也都點名過委外經費過高的問題\n所以這代表什麼意思啊基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務也都委辦給外部的廠商所以環境部就只能夠任由廠商予取予求像剛剛這個樣子也非常像喔廠商叫你們開什麼標請問環境部有能力說不嗎現在連驗收的部分則得標廠商也自己找了自己檢測公司你們可能也都被蒙在鼓底直到現在才知道在你們眼皮底下喔大剌剌的這樣圖利\n這樣子你們都不曉得,是不是這樣案子太多,還是就只是其中一件?事實上,廖委員可能也有一些地方大概言過其實,因為這個問題去年在預算審查的時候,我也認同委員說環境部的委外比例偏高,那我回去也初步的了解一下,有一些\n委員會事實上他是因為他那個性質比如說包括跟地方部長沒有我們不用扯這麼多我只想說我們針對這件事情也可以看到這樣的事件的發生那我也請貴部可以回去好好把這件事情調查清楚我們來瞭解一下啦也請這個是不是把相關資料到時候如果有問題的話請委員找有不法的地方歡迎這個民眾去舉發我個人\n沒有問題我們會把這個資料如果有需要我們會提供跟檢調但是我現在在質詢台上告訴你這件事情就是希望你們也好好的去調查這件事了解可以是好謝謝好謝謝廖委員好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.454 --> 00:22.755\n好主席好有請部長請學部長\n\n00:28.510 --> 00:54.183\n好廖委員早學部長早部長今天的這個專報的主題是噪音管制跟加速推動排氣管噪音認證但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料你們在源頭管理的部分只有提到這個檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎這裡面應該是以汽車為主\n\n00:55.805 --> 01:08.285\n所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證請問部長但是汽車其實也有改裝排氣管還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染為何這份報告裡面沒有\n\n01:09.658 --> 01:38.037\n這個未來我想是下一階段可以去思考剛剛陳委員也特別提到就是說我們現在重點是擺在機車那下一階段應該汽車也應該可以納管但是針對噪音超標的一個處罰的是不分汽機車不要噪音超過那個標準所以你們未來也會趕快加速把這個對汽車的部分好那這個部分提醒你們一下應該也要來做\n\n01:38.817 --> 01:41.962\n好謝謝再來部長我們可以看到喔\n\n01:42.731 --> 02:10.163\n在我們環保署108年的時候3月有一個標案叫做機動車輛噪音聯合機查和排氣管認證及管制計畫這300多萬的標案是由一位凱聚科技實業股份有限公司標德那在109年的時候7月份也有另外一個標同樣的標案他是800多萬的那這個部分呢改叫做歐宜科技股份有限公司標德\n\n02:11.650 --> 02:30.151\n好那我想這個環境部喔因為去查了一下歷年的這個得標記錄這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟我們環境部的常客我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧呃我們同年或許熟悉我個人是不太清楚是因為我沒有介入到這個好那下一頁\n\n02:31.892 --> 02:48.644\n在這個112年的時候這個OE公司也得標了一個就是112年行政院保護署這個環境保護署的大氣環境司的強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計劃\n\n02:49.985 --> 03:09.591\n這個算是一個顧問案,那它的內容主要是講說掌握縣市的環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形以及提供技術資源,彙整更新各縣市的車輛噪音聲音還有照相科技執法的設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果\n\n03:10.211 --> 03:27.418\n那瞭解本署在這個前瞻計畫移波各縣市移動式的聲音照相設備的營運情形並篆擬常見的問題與回覆內容供環保局參考還有在營建工程的這個噪音微型感測器的評估應用\n\n03:28.398 --> 03:50.914\n強化源頭管制的策略還有收集國際上至少三個先進國家運用這個噪音微型感測器跟營建工程還有相關室外環境相關的這個噪音監測的案例所以針對民眾陳情這個營建工程的噪音案件進行分析好簡單來講它就是一個類似顧問案那顧問案完之後\n\n03:51.795 --> 04:03.944\n他是不是有建議要採購所以你們在10月的時候這個OE公司又得標了一個112年行政院這個環境保護署的大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案是嗎?\n\n04:07.488 --> 04:29.777\n呃,廖委員可不可以請我們大氣師張市長來回答因為我這個內容我不是那麼清楚齁跟委員報告這兩個計畫是性質是不一樣的那聲音照相本身來講我們從110年就開始採購所以跟這個112年這個4月份的這個計畫來講是沒有什麼關聯110年就採購第一批22套那這個112年10月這個是採入第二批採過那個21套\n\n04:36.500 --> 05:04.590\n對,但是很神奇的事情就是這個OE公司在得標的顧問案之後在10月份就是又得標了這個採購案好,不過沒關係下一頁喔OE科技決標了這個金額大概是1800多萬的金額喔可是你們這裡面有說該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格跟通過儀器的筆測經本署完成測試驗收合格方撥付該套次的尾款\n\n05:05.330 --> 05:25.891\n也就是說他必須要有人來檢測他對不對那你知道部長你知道他檢測的檢測的公司是哪一家嗎不清楚OK這個他檢測的公司呢就是所謂的凱聚科技科技公司喔就是這家凱聚科技公司檢測的那下一頁\n\n05:28.874 --> 05:53.017\n基本上我們去查了一下這個歐宜公司跟這個凱聚他根本就是同一家公司第一個證據他們共用網站而且他公司設立的地址也相同第二個證據他的董監事都是這個魚性家族相互擔任董監事所以你這樣看起來他是不是同一家公司背後算不算同一批人\n\n05:54.532 --> 06:09.244\n應該是同一個類似集團裡面的公司假如說甚至連網頁也都一起那當然就是同一期但是這個跟前面的構案我不曉得有沒有他就是這個標案就是他採購了這個器材的標案是\n\n06:10.427 --> 06:30.487\n所以政府採購法裡面有施行細則的第38條的第一項第4和第5款政府辦理這個採購的時候簡單來講就是有利益衝突的時候要在我們的採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為請問我們這個標案裡面的合約裡面有沒有寫有沒有明確的載明\n\n06:32.943 --> 06:48.675\n這個產品假如環境部去採購將來驗收是環境部來驗收啦但是剛剛檢測就是檢測公司就是另外一家那你們驗收了這不就是同一家公司自己我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經就結案了還是怎麼樣\n\n06:49.755 --> 07:08.372\n我請我們市長來講一下跟委員報告一下目前這個驗收部分還在進行當中所以還沒有驗收還沒有驗收所以那你們知道它是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎之前不清楚之間的這個關聯所以我現在提出來你們才清楚\n\n07:10.859 --> 07:31.720\n事實上這種問題我們再來進一步釐清但是我們所了解很多在儀器的製造商他本身那家公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的這個部門那那個部門假如去這個出去證明說這個產品是合格接下來就看\n\n07:32.281 --> 07:56.192\n好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊\n\n07:56.972 --> 08:17.798\n那根據貴部環境這個研究院的公開資料一氣的比測至少有6家可以做為何這家這個案子就是由愷俱來做這不就是接案驗收一條龍嗎?環境部的陣風處還在嗎?還有功能嗎?還是說裝睡的人叫不醒還是說他根本就不知道被蒙在鼓底或是在眼皮底下讓他過去\n\n08:19.258 --> 08:42.999\n因為如果今天沒有提出來是不是你們完全不知道這件事然後也沒有去做這個檢查是當廖委員這樣子假如有任何不法非常歡迎去舉發那這個案子因為剛剛我們張市長講還沒有結案那我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係什麼樣反正就是我們絕不負短假如回返\n\n08:44.625 --> 09:12.017\n在違法的地方歡迎去舉花這個是我身為部長的一個態度絕不護短非常清楚很好那我希望貴部盡快的調查如果有任何不法請現在也請檢調來進行調查然後因為這幾年環保署從環保署到環境部的預算其實最大的問題就是委外辦理的經費也是各部會的第一名連立法院的預算中心也都點名過委外經費過高的問題\n\n09:13.942 --> 09:39.582\n所以這代表什麼意思啊基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務也都委辦給外部的廠商所以環境部就只能夠任由廠商予取予求像剛剛這個樣子也非常像喔廠商叫你們開什麼標請問環境部有能力說不嗎現在連驗收的部分則得標廠商也自己找了自己檢測公司你們可能也都被蒙在鼓底直到現在才知道在你們眼皮底下喔大剌剌的這樣圖利\n\n09:41.443 --> 09:57.729\n這樣子你們都不曉得,是不是這樣案子太多,還是就只是其中一件?事實上,廖委員可能也有一些地方大概言過其實,因為這個問題去年在預算審查的時候,我也認同委員說環境部的委外比例偏高,那我回去也初步的了解一下,有一些\n\n09:59.349 --> 10:19.508\n委員會事實上他是因為他那個性質比如說包括跟地方部長沒有我們不用扯這麼多我只想說我們針對這件事情也可以看到這樣的事件的發生那我也請貴部可以回去好好把這件事情調查清楚我們來瞭解一下啦也請這個是不是把相關資料到時候如果有問題的話請委員找有不法的地方歡迎這個民眾去舉發我個人\n\n10:23.291 --> 10:33.836\n沒有問題我們會把這個資料如果有需要我們會提供跟檢調但是我現在在質詢台上告訴你這件事情就是希望你們也好好的去調查這件事了解可以是好謝謝好謝謝廖委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.454,"end":22.755,"text":"好主席好有請部長請學部長"},{"start":28.51,"end":54.183,"text":"好 廖委員早學部長早部長今天的這個專報的主題是噪音管制跟加速推動排氣管噪音認證但是看到貴部的書面報告跟簡報的資料你們在源頭管理的部分只有提到這個檢測噪音認證合格的有225組排氣管請問這裡面有汽車用的排氣管嗎這裡面應該是以汽車為主"},{"start":55.805,"end":68.285,"text":"所以只有針對改裝機車的排氣管進行認證請問部長但是汽車其實也有改裝排氣管還有排氣閥門也會造成噪音污染為何這份報告裡面沒有"},{"start":69.658,"end":98.037,"text":"這個未來我想是下一階段可以去思考剛剛陳委員也特別提到就是說我們現在重點是擺在機車那下一階段應該汽車也應該可以納管但是針對噪音超標的一個處罰的是不分汽機車不要噪音超過那個標準所以你們未來也會趕快加速把這個對汽車的部分好那這個部分提醒你們一下應該也要來做"},{"start":98.817,"end":101.962,"text":"好 謝謝再來部長我們可以看到喔"},{"start":102.731,"end":130.163,"text":"在我們環保署108年的時候3月有一個標案叫做機動車輛噪音聯合機查和排氣管認證及管制計畫這300多萬的標案是由一位凱聚科技實業股份有限公司標德那在109年的時候7月份也有另外一個標同樣的標案他是800多萬的那這個部分呢改叫做歐宜科技股份有限公司標德"},{"start":131.65,"end":150.151,"text":"好那我想這個環境部喔因為去查了一下歷年的這個得標記錄這兩家公司以前也是環保署跟我們環境部的常客我相信環境部對這兩家公司應該也不陌生吧呃我們同年或許熟悉我個人是不太清楚是因為我沒有介入到這個好那下一頁"},{"start":151.892,"end":168.644,"text":"在這個112年的時候這個OE公司也得標了一個就是112年行政院保護署這個環境保護署的大氣環境司的強化噪音管制措施及營建工程噪音改善計劃"},{"start":169.985,"end":189.591,"text":"這個算是一個顧問案,那它的內容主要是講說掌握縣市的環保局推動聲音照相科技執法情形以及提供技術資源,彙整更新各縣市的車輛噪音聲音還有照相科技執法的設置的形式、地點、套數跟成果"},{"start":190.211,"end":207.418,"text":"那瞭解本署在這個前瞻計畫移波各縣市移動式的聲音照相設備的營運情形並篆擬常見的問題與回覆內容供環保局參考還有在營建工程的這個噪音微型感測器的評估應用"},{"start":208.398,"end":230.914,"text":"強化源頭管制的策略還有收集國際上至少三個先進國家運用這個噪音微型感測器跟營建工程還有相關室外環境相關的這個噪音監測的案例所以針對民眾陳情這個營建工程的噪音案件進行分析好簡單來講它就是一個類似顧問案那顧問案完之後"},{"start":231.795,"end":243.944,"text":"他是不是有建議要採購所以你們在10月的時候這個OE公司又得標了一個112年行政院這個環境保護署的大氣環境司移動式聲音照相科技執法辨識系統採購案是嗎?"},{"start":247.488,"end":269.777,"text":"呃,廖委員可不可以請我們大氣師張市長來回答因為我這個內容我不是那麼清楚齁跟委員報告這兩個計畫是性質是不一樣的那聲音照相本身來講我們從110年就開始採購所以跟這個112年這個4月份的這個計畫來講是沒有什麼關聯110年就採購第一批22套那這個112年10月這個是採入第二批採過那個21套"},{"start":276.5,"end":304.59,"text":"對,但是很神奇的事情就是這個OE公司在得標的顧問案之後在10月份就是又得標了這個採購案好,不過沒關係下一頁喔OE科技決標了這個金額大概是1800多萬的金額喔可是你們這裡面有說該採購案設備經標檢局檢定合格跟通過儀器的筆測經本署完成測試驗收合格方撥付該套次的尾款"},{"start":305.33,"end":325.891,"text":"也就是說他必須要有人來檢測他對不對那你知道部長你知道他檢測的檢測的公司是哪一家嗎不清楚OK這個他檢測的公司呢就是所謂的凱聚科技科技公司喔就是這家凱聚科技公司檢測的那下一頁"},{"start":328.874,"end":353.017,"text":"基本上我們去查了一下這個歐宜公司跟這個凱聚他根本就是同一家公司第一個證據他們共用網站而且他公司設立的地址也相同第二個證據他的董監事都是這個魚性家族相互擔任董監事所以你這樣看起來他是不是同一家公司背後算不算同一批人"},{"start":354.532,"end":369.244,"text":"應該是同一個類似集團裡面的公司假如說甚至連網頁也都一起那當然就是同一期但是這個跟前面的構案我不曉得有沒有他就是這個標案就是他採購了這個器材的標案是"},{"start":370.427,"end":390.487,"text":"所以政府採購法裡面有施行細則的第38條的第一項第4和第5款政府辦理這個採購的時候簡單來講就是有利益衝突的時候要在我們的採購文件中明文禁止得標廠商自己協助自己的行為請問我們這個標案裡面的合約裡面有沒有寫有沒有明確的載明"},{"start":392.943,"end":408.675,"text":"這個產品假如環境部去採購將來驗收是環境部來驗收啦但是剛剛檢測就是檢測公司就是另外一家那你們驗收了這不就是同一家公司自己我不曉得這個案子現在是不是已經就結案了還是怎麼樣"},{"start":409.755,"end":428.372,"text":"我請我們市長來講一下跟委員報告一下目前這個驗收部分還在進行當中所以還沒有驗收還沒有驗收所以那你們知道它是同一家公司自己給自己檢測嗎自己的產品給自己的另外一家公司檢測嗎之前不清楚之間的這個關聯所以我現在提出來你們才清楚"},{"start":430.859,"end":451.72,"text":"事實上這種問題我們再來進一步釐清但是我們所了解很多在儀器的製造商他本身那家公司裡面就會有驗證跟分析的這個部門那那個部門假如去這個出去證明說這個產品是合格接下來就看"},{"start":452.281,"end":476.192,"text":"好部長那我告訴你因為其實他明明有其他的實驗室喔要不要接受他的認證好我簡單來講這件事情的邏輯就是OE公司他跟這個凱聚公司就是同一間公司那OE提供的儀器比測報告是由凱聚公司檢測的那這個情況邏輯不就像是少林足球裡面講到的裁判、球證、旁證都是他的人你怎麼跟我鬥這就是球員兼裁判啊"},{"start":476.972,"end":497.798,"text":"那根據貴部環境這個研究院的公開資料一氣的比測至少有6家可以做為何這家這個案子就是由愷俱來做這不就是接案驗收一條龍嗎?環境部的陣風處還在嗎?還有功能嗎?還是說裝睡的人叫不醒還是說他根本就不知道被蒙在鼓底或是在眼皮底下讓他過去"},{"start":499.258,"end":522.999,"text":"因為如果今天沒有提出來是不是你們完全不知道這件事然後也沒有去做這個檢查是當廖委員這樣子假如有任何不法非常歡迎去舉發那這個案子因為剛剛我們張市長講還沒有結案那我不曉得這裡面的一些揣測或者關係什麼樣反正就是我們絕不負短假如回返"},{"start":524.625,"end":552.017,"text":"在違法的地方歡迎去舉花這個是我身為部長的一個態度絕不護短非常清楚很好那我希望貴部盡快的調查如果有任何不法請現在也請檢調來進行調查然後因為這幾年環保署從環保署到環境部的預算其實最大的問題就是委外辦理的經費也是各部會的第一名連立法院的預算中心也都點名過委外經費過高的問題"},{"start":553.942,"end":579.582,"text":"所以這代表什麼意思啊基本上就是環境部把自己的核心業務也都委辦給外部的廠商所以環境部就只能夠任由廠商予取予求像剛剛這個樣子也非常像喔廠商叫你們開什麼標請問環境部有能力說不嗎現在連驗收的部分則得標廠商也自己找了自己檢測公司你們可能也都被蒙在鼓底直到現在才知道在你們眼皮底下喔大剌剌的這樣圖利"},{"start":581.443,"end":597.729,"text":"這樣子你們都不曉得,是不是這樣案子太多,還是就只是其中一件?事實上,廖委員可能也有一些地方大概言過其實,因為這個問題去年在預算審查的時候,我也認同委員說環境部的委外比例偏高,那我回去也初步的了解一下,有一些"},{"start":599.349,"end":619.508,"text":"委員會事實上他是因為他那個性質比如說包括跟地方部長沒有我們不用扯這麼多我只想說我們針對這件事情也可以看到這樣的事件的發生那我也請貴部可以回去好好把這件事情調查清楚我們來瞭解一下啦也請這個是不是把相關資料到時候如果有問題的話請委員找有不法的地方歡迎這個民眾去舉發我個人"},{"start":623.291,"end":633.836,"text":"沒有問題我們會把這個資料如果有需要我們會提供跟檢調但是我現在在質詢台上告訴你這件事情就是希望你們也好好的去調查這件事了解可以是好謝謝好謝謝廖委員好謝謝"}]}}}}