{"id":151538,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151538","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336394d711c84b909d497e999b50eca937cdcb4691eb09bf4e21c0234b0a221b0dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:51:01 - 11:01:13","影片長度":"00:10:12","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計8案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計1案。\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-13"},"duration":612,"end_time":"2024-04-22T11:01:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T10:51:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時50分）主席好，各位官員、各位委員，大家早安、大家好，是不是先有請秘書長？"],["主席：好，請行政院秘書長，謝謝。"],["李秘書長孟諺：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：秘書長早安，第一次碰到秘書長，也得知秘書長即將接任交通部長，在這邊給秘書長恭喜。本席代表中和鄉親，過去您擔任臺北縣水利局的局長，在蘇貞昌縣長任內，因為過去中和的南勢角，那時候還叫中和市南勢角，那邊容易淹水，是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟秘書長您還有很多在地的議員一起努力來做南勢角分洪的動作，讓南勢角不再淹水，所以本席在這邊代表我們中和的鄉親，對您非常的肯定也感謝，那秘書長請回。"],["李秘書長孟諺：謝謝委員。"],["張委員智倫：我們請不當黨產處理委員會的主委。"],["主席：好，林主委，謝謝。"],["林主任委員峯正：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：主委好，本席要請問你，我要幫我們救國團來發聲，請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認定為政黨附隨組織的原因大概是什麼，可不可以簡單敘述一下？"],["林主任委員峯正：簡單說，救國團在民國41年的時候設立，它當時設立的時候，那段時間有像自由中國這樣的雜誌，有很多人在裡面寫文章，就主張救國團其實是一個黑機關，那麼我們爬梳了非常多的歷史資料，包括各種檔案，我們發現救國團它是沒有立法、沒有任何法律依據的，當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子……"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委。"],["林主任委員峯正：人事、財務、業務被國民黨控制的資料都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面，我們都公布在網站上。"],["張委員智倫：是，我跟主委報告，因為救國團就我自己本身、本席的瞭解而言，它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益法人身分，也是過去很多人從小到大回憶的地方，本席希望黨產會不要自行認定，臺灣是民主國家，當然過去可能會有很多的組織，當時國民政府來臺灣會成立一些組織，可是大家都知道現在是民主社會時代，希望黨產會這邊也要幫幫救國團，讓它可以繼續推動一些公益活動。","我想要針對很多大法官對黨產會做出的一些建議來請教主委，因為許多大法官，比如說張瓊文大法官提出，認為你們黨產會過度限制一些組織的財產權，而且有一些違誤的情形，我請教一下，針對張瓊文大法官所提出的，你們已經過度限制曾為附隨組織，而且對財產的使用處分權有做限制，這點你要怎麼回應？"],["林主任委員峯正：請問委員，這有什麼具體的哪個個案？"],["張委員智倫：大法官這邊寫得非常清楚。那我再跟您報告，像詹森林大法官也有提出，一般來講，脫離政黨控制後始擁有之正當取得財產，應該非屬黨產條例所欲處理的客體，而且不能被推定為不當取得。顧名思義，就像本席剛剛跟你講的，過去早期當然有一些黨會有一些指派的情形，可是現在應該都已經區分得非常清楚了。"],["林主任委員峯正：我可以跟委員說明一下，譬如像我們在中廣公司的處分裡面，我們認定中廣公司……"],["張委員智倫：等一下，不好意思，我先請教關於救國團的部分，好不好？針對救國團。"],["林主任委員峯正：好，救國團的部分，我也可以很清楚地說明，早期的時候，自民國41年開始，它在國防部下面，它所有的預算、所有自用的費用全部都來自國家的預算，到58年之後解除隸屬，不隸屬於國防部，但是它所有的財務資源全部也是來自於國家，到了民國78年時，它設立了社團法人，因為這個階段正好碰到解嚴，確實它轉型，所以我們認定救國團曾經是國民黨的附隨組織，但現在問題來了，它在民國41年到78年這段期間從國家取得的財務該登記在救國團名下的不動產是很多，它有沒有在離開政府的時候，把那些當時從政府拿到的財務通通交回來呢？沒有。所以我們現在追究的其實是這一塊，也就是民國78年它正式登記為社團法人之後，那個時候它並沒有把從國家拿去的財務賸餘的部分交回來，我們現在追的，包括我們的處分，如果有稍微看一下那個處分書的話，我們主張是就那個時間點它沒有交回來的部分。至於救國團後來它又到各縣市去做了新的業務，譬如運動中心，像這個就完全跟過去無關，那我們就非常支持啊！我們雖然監管它的財務，它跟我們申請相關的費用，我想委員應該可以跟救國團詢問一下，我們通通很快就許可，從來都不會影響到它類似新的業務，但是它舊的財務必須要交回來，這個是我們的職責所在。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委的分享。所以本席就是希望，你這邊黨產委員會應該要讓救國團順利繼續去推動它相關的業務，尤其剛剛本席有跟你報告，它是公益性、教育性以及服務性的。本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關長官，希望未來還是持續推動救國團的部分，而且就像主委剛剛講的，其實它有一些明確可以區分已經不算是附隨組織的部分，也請主委這邊要手下留情。","第二個，大家長期討論到的就是，不當黨產委員會，很多大法官也講它不是永久性的一個組織，它應該是一個任務型組織，像你們這個不當黨產委員會已經成立這麼久了，就你們而言到底還要成立多久、有沒有一個落日條款？我本身是會計師，我們查一個組織也不會像貴委員會查這麼久，到底你們還要花多少的人民預算來做不當黨產的調查？"],["林主任委員峯正：按照黨產條例的規定，我們確實是沒有落日條款，我剛才一再說，但是我們委員有任期，至於要不要再繼續，我想這個是政策考量，我們就尊重包括立法院，包括行政院這邊的規劃。相關的……"],["張委員智倫：其實你們可以自行提出來，因為我們是……"],["林主任委員峯正：不是，我剛才也說明過，因為我們處分了之後，被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司，現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件，一個是中投、欣裕台有一百多億的公司股權，現在收歸國有；我們也看到轉帳撥用案，那個法院判決確定。但是像委員剛剛提到的救國團，它的案子拖了4、5年。"],["張委員智倫：我的意思是，我覺得不當黨產委員會不是協助打官司的一個委員會，就是……"],["林主任委員峯正：我們尊重被處分的對象。"],["張委員智倫：我要請教你的是，你們現在是不是都已經差不多調查完畢了？還是你們現在的職權就是負責跟這些組織打官司？"],["林主任委員峯正：我們是獨立機關，所以業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告。但可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟，包括一個婦聯會，光是附隨組織案就拖了6年，媒體都很關心，我們也很無奈，我們也不想它拖這麼久。剛開始說釋憲，結果2020年8月釋憲 出來，現在已經2024年了，兩個月就開一次庭，開了幾十次庭，法院沒有辦法結案。"],["張委員智倫：最後，因為時間的關係，我還是要請教主委，您針對解凍案今天的這個解釋，就去年而言，貴委員會動用預算，歲出部分只用了八成，112年只用了八成，而113年居然你們所編的歲出預算比去年還多……"],["林主任委員峯正：差幾十萬。"],["張委員智倫：請問一下，到底你們是要做什麼事情？"],["林主任委員峯正：我想相關預算書裡面都有清楚的說明，我們就是按照那些……"],["張委員智倫：因為只用了八成，為什麼今年的預算還要再增加？"],["林主任委員峯正：我們沒有特別去增加，它那個就是因為統刪、統編的金額而已，譬如說……"],["張委員智倫：去年只用了八成，都用不完了，為什麼今年要再增加預算？有沒有一個簡單的……"],["林主任委員峯正：我們沒有去要求增加預算，我一再說明了，我們沒有。"],["張委員智倫：可是金額是有提高啊！"],["林主任委員峯正：它好像是20萬還是……這個就是主計總處那邊的一些協調，到最後就變成可能增加一點點，我們一年才5,000萬啦，一個機關。"],["張委員智倫：好，主委，我這邊要拜託你，第一個，我要幫救國團請命，就是必須要繼續推動救國團幫助很多年輕人的部分。第二個，不當黨產委員會你們內部要不要討論──到底不當黨產委員會會不會變成一個專門打訴訟官司的委員會？第三個就是你們列有預算的部分，如果真的沒有需要花那麼多，請你們也要節省人民的納稅錢。以上，謝謝。"],["林主任委員峯正：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝。","下一位請李柏毅委員。謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-13","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃建賓","丁學忠","高金素梅","張智倫","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","黃國昌","麥玉珍","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 592.79, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 592.79, \"end\": 592.89, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 592.89, \"end\": 592.91, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:04,115\n各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是先有請秘書長。好,請我們選這位秘書長。謝謝。\n\n2\n00:00:12,267 --> 00:00:38,360\n律師長早安剛剛第一次碰到律師長也得知說律師長即將接任交通部長在這邊給律師長恭喜在這邊本席也代表過去在您過去早期擔任台北縣的水利局的局長在蘇貞昌縣長任內因為過去有中和南市角的部分那時候還叫中和市南市角那邊容易淹水那也是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟\n\n3\n00:00:41,341 --> 00:00:44,082\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n\n4\n00:01:07,851 --> 00:01:14,134\n主委好,本席要請問你,針對我要幫我們救國團來發聲,請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認為政黨的附屬組織的原因大概是什麼,可以簡單敘述一下?\n\n5\n00:01:23,413 --> 00:01:40,790\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationoftheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatesofAmerica\n\n6\n00:01:48,917 --> 00:02:16,411\n當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子。好,謝謝主委。人事財務業務被國民黨控制的資料我們都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面,我想我們都公佈在網站上。我跟主委報告,因為救國團就我自己本身本席的了解而言,它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益的一個法人的一個身份。那很多,也是過去很多人的一個這個從小到大的一個回憶的一個地方。\n\n7\n00:02:17,091 --> 00:02:18,372\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n\n8\n00:02:43,035 --> 00:02:47,099\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n9\n00:03:10,319 --> 00:03:11,120\n憲法委員有什麼具體的個案?\n\n10\n00:03:26,472 --> 00:03:48,284\n大法官這邊寫得非常清楚那我再跟您報告齁這樣詹森文大法官也有提出齁一般來講已經有脫離政黨控制後時有擁有之政黨取得財產應該非屬黨產條例所預處理的課題而且不能被推定為不當取得所以顧名思義就像本席剛剛跟你講的過去早期當然會有一些這個黨\n\n11\n00:03:50,871 --> 00:03:57,075\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度\n\n12\n00:04:19,284 --> 00:04:20,705\n政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n\n13\n00:04:35,194 --> 00:04:37,095\n三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n14\n00:04:54,506 --> 00:04:57,850\n當時從政府拿到的財物通通交回來了沒有所以我們現在追究其實這一塊\n\n15\n00:05:10,066 --> 00:05:12,427\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書\n\n16\n00:05:53,973 --> 00:06:19,503\n好,謝謝主委的分享所以本席就是希望說你這邊當常常委員會要應該讓救國團順利繼續推動他相關的業務尤其剛剛本席有給你報告就他是公益性、教育性以及服務性的那本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關的長官那就希望說未來還是繼續推動救國團的部分而且就像主委剛剛講的其實他已經有一些明確可以區分\n\n17\n00:06:20,223 --> 00:06:22,905\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n18\n00:06:35,993 --> 00:06:39,255\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n19\n00:07:01,232 --> 00:07:17,745\n按照這個黨產條例的規定我們確實是沒有落入條款我剛才在說但是我們委員有任期啦至於要不要再繼續我想這個是政策考量我們就尊重包括立法院包括行政院這邊的規劃那相關請你們可以自行提出來啊\n\n20\n00:07:18,345 --> 00:07:39,635\n不是,因為我剛才也說明過嘛,因為我們處分了之後,被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司,那現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件,一個是中投信譽台有一百多億的公司的股權,現在收歸國有。那麼我們也看到轉帳撥用案,那個法院判決確定,但是像委員會案集中的救國團,\n\n21\n00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:43,957\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n\n22\n00:07:57,163 --> 00:08:10,980\n還是你們現在的職權就是負責來跟這些組織來打官司?我們是鼓勵機關所以我們的業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告但是可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟包括一個婦聯會案光是負責組織案就拖了6年\n\n23\n00:08:13,883 --> 00:08:20,672\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。Minne四、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n24\n00:08:28,942 --> 00:08:56,232\n好最後因為時間的關係老師要請教主委就您針對凍結動案今天的這個解釋就去年而言你貴委員會動用預算的稅數的部分只用了八成可是今年113年112年只用了八成那113年居然你們的左邊的這個稅數的預算還比去年還多那請問一下到底你們是要做什麼事情\n\n25\n00:08:57,953 --> 00:09:23,708\n我想相關的預算書裡面都有清楚的說明,我們就是按照那些...因為只用了八成,為什麼今年的預算還要再增加?我們沒有特別去增加,它那個就是因為桶山桶邊的金額而已。譬如說...那你居然只用了八成,居然只用了八成都用不完了,為什麼今年要再增加預算?有沒有一個簡單的說明?我們沒有去要求增加預算,我再說明,我們沒有。覺得金額是有提高嗎?\n\n26\n00:09:25,634 --> 00:09:46,545\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲,所以主委我們這邊要拜託你,所以第一個我要幫救國團起義就是繼續要推動,讓救國團在幫助很多年輕人的部分然後繼續去推動。第二個不當黨產委員會應該你們內部要討論跟要不要討論說到底\n\n27\n00:09:51,388 --> 00:09:52,910\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t4115\t各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是先有請秘書長。好,請我們選這位秘書長。謝謝。\n12267\t38360\t律師長早安剛剛第一次碰到律師長也得知說律師長即將接任交通部長在這邊給律師長恭喜在這邊本席也代表過去在您過去早期擔任台北縣的水利局的局長在蘇貞昌縣長任內因為過去有中和南市角的部分那時候還叫中和市南市角那邊容易淹水那也是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟\n41341\t44082\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n67851\t74134\t主委好,本席要請問你,針對我要幫我們救國團來發聲,請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認為政黨的附屬組織的原因大概是什麼,可以簡單敘述一下?\n83413\t100790\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of the Constitution of the United States of America\n108917\t136411\t當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子。好,謝謝主委。人事財務業務被國民黨控制的資料我們都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面,我想我們都公佈在網站上。我跟主委報告,因為救國團就我自己本身本席的了解而言,它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益的一個法人的一個身份。那很多,也是過去很多人的一個這個從小到大的一個回憶的一個地方。\n137091\t138372\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n163035\t167099\t三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n190319\t191120\t憲法委員有什麼具體的個案?\n206472\t228284\t大法官這邊寫得非常清楚那我再跟您報告齁這樣詹森文大法官也有提出齁一般來講已經有脫離政黨控制後時有擁有之政黨取得財產應該非屬黨產條例所預處理的課題而且不能被推定為不當取得所以顧名思義就像本席剛剛跟你講的過去早期當然會有一些這個黨\n230871\t237075\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度\n259284\t260705\t政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n275194\t277095\t三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n294506\t297850\t當時從政府拿到的財物通通交回來了沒有所以我們現在追究其實這一塊\n310066\t312427\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書\n338319\t353592\t議員議員\n353973\t379503\t好,謝謝主委的分享所以本席就是希望說你這邊當常常委員會要應該讓救國團順利繼續推動他相關的業務尤其剛剛本席有給你報告就他是公益性、教育性以及服務性的那本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關的長官那就希望說未來還是繼續推動救國團的部分而且就像主委剛剛講的其實他已經有一些明確可以區分\n380223\t382905\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n395993\t399255\t三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n421232\t437745\t按照這個黨產條例的規定我們確實是沒有落入條款我剛才在說但是我們委員有任期啦至於要不要再繼續我想這個是政策考量我們就尊重包括立法院包括行政院這邊的規劃那相關 請你們可以自行提出來啊\n438345\t459635\t不是,因為我剛才也說明過嘛,因為我們處分了之後,被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司,那現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件,一個是中投信譽台有一百多億的公司的股權,現在收歸國有。那麼我們也看到轉帳撥用案,那個法院判決確定,但是像委員會案集中的救國團,\n460956\t463957\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n477163\t490980\t還是你們現在的職權就是負責來跟這些組織來打官司?我們是鼓勵機關所以我們的業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告但是可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟包括一個婦聯會案光是負責組織案就拖了6年\n493883\t500672\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關\n508942\t536232\t好最後因為時間的關係老師要請教主委就您針對凍結動案今天的這個解釋就去年而言你貴委員會動用預算的稅數的部分只用了八成可是今年113年112年只用了八成那113年居然你們的左邊的這個稅數的預算還比去年還多那請問一下到底你們是要做什麼事情\n537953\t563708\t我想相關的預算書裡面都有清楚的說明,我們就是按照那些...因為只用了八成,為什麼今年的預算還要再增加?我們沒有特別去增加,它那個就是因為桶山桶邊的金額而已。譬如說...那你居然只用了八成,居然只用了八成都用不完了,為什麼今年要再增加預算?有沒有一個簡單的說明?我們沒有去要求增加預算,我再說明,我們沒有。覺得金額是有提高嗎?\n565634\t586545\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲,所以主委我們這邊要拜託你,所以第一個我要幫救國團起義就是繼續要推動,讓救國團在幫助很多年輕人的部分然後繼續去推動。第二個不當黨產委員會應該你們內部要討論跟要不要討論說到底\n591388\t592910\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案\n","txt":"各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是先有請秘書長。好,請我們選這位秘書長。謝謝。\n律師長早安剛剛第一次碰到律師長也得知說律師長即將接任交通部長在這邊給律師長恭喜在這邊本席也代表過去在您過去早期擔任台北縣的水利局的局長在蘇貞昌縣長任內因為過去有中和南市角的部分那時候還叫中和市南市角那邊容易淹水那也是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n主委好,本席要請問你,針對我要幫我們救國團來發聲,請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認為政黨的附屬組織的原因大概是什麼,可以簡單敘述一下?\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of the Constitution of the United States of America\n當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子。好,謝謝主委。人事財務業務被國民黨控制的資料我們都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面,我想我們都公佈在網站上。我跟主委報告,因為救國團就我自己本身本席的了解而言,它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益的一個法人的一個身份。那很多,也是過去很多人的一個這個從小到大的一個回憶的一個地方。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n憲法委員有什麼具體的個案?\n大法官這邊寫得非常清楚那我再跟您報告齁這樣詹森文大法官也有提出齁一般來講已經有脫離政黨控制後時有擁有之政黨取得財產應該非屬黨產條例所預處理的課題而且不能被推定為不當取得所以顧名思義就像本席剛剛跟你講的過去早期當然會有一些這個黨\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度\n政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n當時從政府拿到的財物通通交回來了沒有所以我們現在追究其實這一塊\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書\n議員議員\n好,謝謝主委的分享所以本席就是希望說你這邊當常常委員會要應該讓救國團順利繼續推動他相關的業務尤其剛剛本席有給你報告就他是公益性、教育性以及服務性的那本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關的長官那就希望說未來還是繼續推動救國團的部分而且就像主委剛剛講的其實他已經有一些明確可以區分\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n按照這個黨產條例的規定我們確實是沒有落入條款我剛才在說但是我們委員有任期啦至於要不要再繼續我想這個是政策考量我們就尊重包括立法院包括行政院這邊的規劃那相關 請你們可以自行提出來啊\n不是,因為我剛才也說明過嘛,因為我們處分了之後,被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司,那現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件,一個是中投信譽台有一百多億的公司的股權,現在收歸國有。那麼我們也看到轉帳撥用案,那個法院判決確定,但是像委員會案集中的救國團,\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n還是你們現在的職權就是負責來跟這些組織來打官司?我們是鼓勵機關所以我們的業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告但是可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟包括一個婦聯會案光是負責組織案就拖了6年\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關\n好最後因為時間的關係老師要請教主委就您針對凍結動案今天的這個解釋就去年而言你貴委員會動用預算的稅數的部分只用了八成可是今年113年112年只用了八成那113年居然你們的左邊的這個稅數的預算還比去年還多那請問一下到底你們是要做什麼事情\n我想相關的預算書裡面都有清楚的說明,我們就是按照那些...因為只用了八成,為什麼今年的預算還要再增加?我們沒有特別去增加,它那個就是因為桶山桶邊的金額而已。譬如說...那你居然只用了八成,居然只用了八成都用不完了,為什麼今年要再增加預算?有沒有一個簡單的說明?我們沒有去要求增加預算,我再說明,我們沒有。覺得金額是有提高嗎?\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲,所以主委我們這邊要拜託你,所以第一個我要幫救國團起義就是繼續要推動,讓救國團在幫助很多年輕人的部分然後繼續去推動。第二個不當黨產委員會應該你們內部要討論跟要不要討論說到底\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:04.115\n各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是先有請秘書長。好,請我們選這位秘書長。謝謝。\n\n00:12.267 --> 00:38.360\n律師長早安剛剛第一次碰到律師長也得知說律師長即將接任交通部長在這邊給律師長恭喜在這邊本席也代表過去在您過去早期擔任台北縣的水利局的局長在蘇貞昌縣長任內因為過去有中和南市角的部分那時候還叫中和市南市角那邊容易淹水那也是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟\n\n00:41.341 --> 00:44.082\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n\n01:07.851 --> 01:14.134\n主委好,本席要請問你,針對我要幫我們救國團來發聲,請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認為政黨的附屬組織的原因大概是什麼,可以簡單敘述一下?\n\n01:23.413 --> 01:40.790\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviationoftheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatesofAmerica\n\n01:48.917 --> 02:16.411\n當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子。好,謝謝主委。人事財務業務被國民黨控制的資料我們都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面,我想我們都公佈在網站上。我跟主委報告,因為救國團就我自己本身本席的了解而言,它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益的一個法人的一個身份。那很多,也是過去很多人的一個這個從小到大的一個回憶的一個地方。\n\n02:17.091 --> 02:18.372\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告\n\n02:43.035 --> 02:47.099\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n03:10.319 --> 03:11.120\n憲法委員有什麼具體的個案?\n\n03:26.472 --> 03:48.284\n大法官這邊寫得非常清楚那我再跟您報告齁這樣詹森文大法官也有提出齁一般來講已經有脫離政黨控制後時有擁有之政黨取得財產應該非屬黨產條例所預處理的課題而且不能被推定為不當取得所以顧名思義就像本席剛剛跟你講的過去早期當然會有一些這個黨\n\n03:50.871 --> 03:57.075\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度\n\n04:19.284 --> 04:20.705\n政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案\n\n04:35.194 --> 04:37.095\n三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n04:54.506 --> 04:57.850\n當時從政府拿到的財物通通交回來了沒有所以我們現在追究其實這一塊\n\n05:10.066 --> 05:12.427\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書\n\n05:53.973 --> 06:19.503\n好,謝謝主委的分享所以本席就是希望說你這邊當常常委員會要應該讓救國團順利繼續推動他相關的業務尤其剛剛本席有給你報告就他是公益性、教育性以及服務性的那本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關的長官那就希望說未來還是繼續推動救國團的部分而且就像主委剛剛講的其實他已經有一些明確可以區分\n\n06:20.223 --> 06:22.905\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案\n\n06:35.993 --> 06:39.255\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon\n\n07:01.232 --> 07:17.745\n按照這個黨產條例的規定我們確實是沒有落入條款我剛才在說但是我們委員有任期啦至於要不要再繼續我想這個是政策考量我們就尊重包括立法院包括行政院這邊的規劃那相關請你們可以自行提出來啊\n\n07:18.345 --> 07:39.635\n不是,因為我剛才也說明過嘛,因為我們處分了之後,被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司,那現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件,一個是中投信譽台有一百多億的公司的股權,現在收歸國有。那麼我們也看到轉帳撥用案,那個法院判決確定,但是像委員會案集中的救國團,\n\n07:40.956 --> 07:43.957\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n\n07:57.163 --> 08:10.980\n還是你們現在的職權就是負責來跟這些組織來打官司?我們是鼓勵機關所以我們的業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告但是可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟包括一個婦聯會案光是負責組織案就拖了6年\n\n08:13.883 --> 08:20.672\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。Minne四、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n08:28.942 --> 08:56.232\n好最後因為時間的關係老師要請教主委就您針對凍結動案今天的這個解釋就去年而言你貴委員會動用預算的稅數的部分只用了八成可是今年113年112年只用了八成那113年居然你們的左邊的這個稅數的預算還比去年還多那請問一下到底你們是要做什麼事情\n\n08:57.953 --> 09:23.708\n我想相關的預算書裡面都有清楚的說明,我們就是按照那些...因為只用了八成,為什麼今年的預算還要再增加?我們沒有特別去增加,它那個就是因為桶山桶邊的金額而已。譬如說...那你居然只用了八成,居然只用了八成都用不完了,為什麼今年要再增加預算?有沒有一個簡單的說明?我們沒有去要求增加預算,我再說明,我們沒有。覺得金額是有提高嗎?\n\n09:25.634 --> 09:46.545\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲,所以主委我們這邊要拜託你,所以第一個我要幫救國團起義就是繼續要推動,讓救國團在幫助很多年輕人的部分然後繼續去推動。第二個不當黨產委員會應該你們內部要討論跟要不要討論說到底\n\n09:51.388 --> 09:52.910\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":4.115,"text":"各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是先有請秘書長。好,請我們選這位秘書長。謝謝。"},{"start":12.267,"end":38.36,"text":"律師長早安剛剛第一次碰到律師長也得知說律師長即將接任交通部長在這邊給律師長恭喜在這邊本席也代表過去在您過去早期擔任台北縣的水利局的局長在蘇貞昌縣長任內因為過去有中和南市角的部分那時候還叫中和市南市角那邊容易淹水那也是當時的蘇貞昌縣長跟"},{"start":41.341,"end":44.082,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":67.851,"end":74.134,"text":"主委好,本席要請問你,針對我要幫我們救國團來發聲,請問一下救國團被不當黨產委員會認為政黨的附屬組織的原因大概是什麼,可以簡單敘述一下?"},{"start":83.413,"end":100.79,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of the Constitution of the United States of America"},{"start":108.917,"end":136.411,"text":"當時被弄成一個像準行政機關這樣子。好,謝謝主委。人事財務業務被國民黨控制的資料我們都在我們的處分書跟調查報告裡面,我想我們都公佈在網站上。我跟主委報告,因為救國團就我自己本身本席的了解而言,它是具有公益性、教育性以及服務性的一個公益的一個法人的一個身份。那很多,也是過去很多人的一個這個從小到大的一個回憶的一個地方。"},{"start":137.091,"end":138.372,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":163.035,"end":167.099,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon"},{"start":190.319,"end":191.12,"text":"憲法委員有什麼具體的個案?"},{"start":206.472,"end":228.284,"text":"大法官這邊寫得非常清楚那我再跟您報告齁這樣詹森文大法官也有提出齁一般來講已經有脫離政黨控制後時有擁有之政黨取得財產應該非屬黨產條例所預處理的課題而且不能被推定為不當取得所以顧名思義就像本席剛剛跟你講的過去早期當然會有一些這個黨"},{"start":230.871,"end":237.075,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度"},{"start":259.284,"end":260.705,"text":"政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案"},{"start":275.194,"end":277.095,"text":"三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":294.506,"end":297.85,"text":"當時從政府拿到的財物通通交回來了沒有所以我們現在追究其實這一塊"},{"start":310.066,"end":312.427,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書"},{"start":338.319,"end":353.592,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":353.973,"end":379.503,"text":"好,謝謝主委的分享所以本席就是希望說你這邊當常常委員會要應該讓救國團順利繼續推動他相關的業務尤其剛剛本席有給你報告就他是公益性、教育性以及服務性的那本席當然有詢問過救國團裡面的相關的長官那就希望說未來還是繼續推動救國團的部分而且就像主委剛剛講的其實他已經有一些明確可以區分"},{"start":380.223,"end":382.905,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":395.993,"end":399.255,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。namon"},{"start":421.232,"end":437.745,"text":"按照這個黨產條例的規定我們確實是沒有落入條款我剛才在說但是我們委員有任期啦至於要不要再繼續我想這個是政策考量我們就尊重包括立法院包括行政院這邊的規劃那相關 請你們可以自行提出來啊"},{"start":438.345,"end":459.635,"text":"不是,因為我剛才也說明過嘛,因為我們處分了之後,被處分的對象全部都到行政法院打官司,那現在陸陸續續才在結案。我們現在結了兩件,一個是中投信譽台有一百多億的公司的股權,現在收歸國有。那麼我們也看到轉帳撥用案,那個法院判決確定,但是像委員會案集中的救國團,"},{"start":460.956,"end":463.957,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。"},{"start":477.163,"end":490.98,"text":"還是你們現在的職權就是負責來跟這些組織來打官司?我們是鼓勵機關所以我們的業務包括調查內容可能不方便在這邊跟委員報告但是可以看到很明顯的就是我們有大批的訴訟包括一個婦聯會案光是負責組織案就拖了6年"},{"start":493.883,"end":500.672,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":508.942,"end":536.232,"text":"好最後因為時間的關係老師要請教主委就您針對凍結動案今天的這個解釋就去年而言你貴委員會動用預算的稅數的部分只用了八成可是今年113年112年只用了八成那113年居然你們的左邊的這個稅數的預算還比去年還多那請問一下到底你們是要做什麼事情"},{"start":537.953,"end":563.708,"text":"我想相關的預算書裡面都有清楚的說明,我們就是按照那些...因為只用了八成,為什麼今年的預算還要再增加?我們沒有特別去增加,它那個就是因為桶山桶邊的金額而已。譬如說...那你居然只用了八成,居然只用了八成都用不完了,為什麼今年要再增加預算?有沒有一個簡單的說明?我們沒有去要求增加預算,我再說明,我們沒有。覺得金額是有提高嗎?"},{"start":565.634,"end":586.545,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲,所以主委我們這邊要拜託你,所以第一個我要幫救國團起義就是繼續要推動,讓救國團在幫助很多年輕人的部分然後繼續去推動。第二個不當黨產委員會應該你們內部要討論跟要不要討論說到底"},{"start":591.388,"end":592.91,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案"}]}}}}