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11:05:26","影片長度":"00:06:01","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-8"},"duration":361,"end_time":"2024-04-22T11:05:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T10:59:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":672,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（10時59分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：主委好。在我們運安會的書面報告一開始有指出，自從108年8月1號成立至今，運安會執掌重大運輸事故調查，還有透過系統性調查，完整發掘可能肇事的原因，還有安全風險，提出改善建議，以防止類似事件再次發生。本席這邊想要請教主委，通常調查報告與改進建議事項如果主管機關不重視或不認同的話，運安會要怎麼因應？"],["林主任委員信得：主管機關不重視的話，我們會在行政院的定期檢討會中提報，行政院是管它的，它會叫那個目的事業主管機關來報告，譬如說臺鐵，它會列一個專案，請它來報告。"],["邱委員若華：我這邊提到的是，如果主管機關不重視或不認同運安會做出來的報告，你們要怎麼做因應？"],["林主任委員信得：就是我剛剛講的，我們會往上報，因為我們是行政機關，它也是行政機關，我們跟它是平行的，就由上面的行政院來督導它、來跟它講，沒有錯啊！"],["邱委員若華：因為這邊有說運安會要提出改善建議，防止類似事件再次發生，那麼要是再次發生，也就是我們又再次看到類似交通事故的話，對於調查的技術和作業流程有沒有檢討和調整？"],["林主任委員信得：目前為止還沒有窒礙難行，但是就剛剛委員提的，譬如說水路，水路有引水人的港口、引水人的作業管理問題的時候，它一直再發生、再發生，我們就會跟交通部說這個制度有問題，它現在已經啟動了，像這種的，行政院也跟它講這確實是嚴重的問題……"],["邱委員若華：所以只是做到告知嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：對，會告訴它。"],["邱委員若華：就只是告知，沒有提出你們的相關專業建議，以防止憾事再次發生？"],["林主任委員信得：我們甚至在去年由我本人跟我們水路組組長到交通部去拜會次長，跟他開過聯席會議，也告訴他問題所在，他們的次長、部長也嚇了一跳，說怎麼會這麼嚴重或什麼。他們已經啟動了。像這種都有得到預期的效果。"],["邱委員若華：運安會的解凍案報告中指出，113年4月16日已擬訂「重大運輸事故之範圍」修正草案初稿，朝降低啟動調查門檻及擴大調查範圍方向調整，這邊要請教主委，去年本席的選區桃園八德環保志工團前往宜蘭旅遊，不幸發生37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通事故，像這樣不幸的交通重大事故，是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻及範圍？"],["林主任委員信得：這個案子有啟動，對。"],["邱委員若華：運安會有很多案件調查超過一年，這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的？請主委說明。"],["林主任委員信得：剛剛前面的委員也有提到，一般外面的人以為：這不是很簡單，幾個月就調查出來了嗎？事實上我們有一定的程序，國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子。但是對社會關注的案子，我們當然都會特別加速，我們會加班，並且把人力調派過來。"],["邱委員若華：所以一年是最快的時間嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們航空有分6級，水路有分3級，鐵道和公路都分2級，一級是18個月，二級12個月就調查完成，特殊的案子剛剛報告過了，我們會加快腳步。"],["邱委員若華：這樣子看下來，最快是一年嘛！通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間？"],["林主任委員信得：一般都是至少一年。因為整個調查階段我跟委員報告一下，譬如說，我們如果把這個調查分成3大階段，有調查階段，有報告撰寫階段，有審查階段，在現場蒐證階段，譬如說我們的機動小組去蒐集資料、證據，然後協調，資料的蒐集要歸納，有時候發生事故我們要去訪談當事人，一訪談就要兩、三個月，因為碰到困難嘛！"],["邱委員若華：什麼樣的困難？"],["林主任委員信得：就是有些人有個人隱私，或是他會害怕等等。譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又要根據資料……"],["邱委員若華：運安會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：對！像這種的，本來是兩、三個人去做，我們會一下子七、八個人分頭去做這件事情。"],["邱委員若華：主委提到人數，運安會的預算員額是93人，約聘人員就有71人，請問目前人員的流動率如何？"],["林主任委員信得：流動率是不高啦！不過跟委員報告，我們現在各組幾個缺找人很難找，第一個當然是少子化的關係，第二個，因為譬如說我們要的很多專業人才英文都要比較好……"],["邱委員若華：本席接下來就要問到，這樣對專業的調查、判斷、累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響？"],["林主任委員信得：目前還好啦！但是我們會有捉襟見肘的狀況，確實人力不足，沒有錯。所以我們同仁現在常常都在加班調查。謝謝委員關心。"],["邱委員若華：OK，好。"],["林主任委員信得：譬如我們要的幾個委員，通知他來interview，他英文很好，可是他說：不要，我要去台積電，台積電的薪水比較高。所以我們就找不到人。"],["邱委員若華：主委要不要對著鏡頭喊話一下？就說：目前我們運安會非常需要人才！"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝主委。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱若華委員。","接下來請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-8","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","林沛祥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","游顥","林倩綺","洪孟楷","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","張啓楷","黃健豪","黃仁"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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00:01:06,284\n如果主管機關不重視或是不認同的話運安會要怎麼因應主管機關不重視我們在行政院的定期檢討會裡面我會在會中提報行政院是管他的他會叫那個目的式軟機關要求他會譬如說台鐵他會列一個專案請他來報那我這邊提到的是主管機關不重視或是不認同運安\n\n4\n00:01:07,366 --> 00:01:20,797\n我們運安會就是做出來的報告那你們要怎麼做因應我覺得我剛剛講這個我們會往上報因為我們也是行政機關他也是行政機關我們我們跟他是平行那由上面的行政院來督導他來跟他講沒有錯\n\n5\n00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:37,480\n是因為這邊有說就是原案會提出改善金以防止類似的事件再次發生那要是再次發生因為我們又再次看到有類似的交通事故的話那對於調查技術還有作業流程有沒有檢討和也有調整\n\n6\n00:01:39,209 --> 00:01:59,955\n目前為止還沒有實在難行但是就剛委員提的譬如說譬如說水路水路有漁水人的港口漁水人的一些作業管理的問題的時候他一直在發生在發生那我們就會跟交通部講說你這個制度有問題他現在已經啟動了像這種的行政院也跟他講說這個是確實嚴重的問題所以只是做到告知嗎\n\n7\n00:02:00,795 --> 00:02:23,295\n對,他會告訴他就是提出其他專業相關你們的建議以防止憾事再次發生我們甚至在去年去年由我本人跟我們的水路組的組長到交通部去拜會次長跟他開一個聯席會議那也告訴他問題之所在他們也嚇他們的次長部長也嚇了一跳說啊怎麼會這麼這麼嚴重或什麼他們已經啟動了像這種有得到預許的效果\n\n8\n00:02:28,254 --> 00:02:49,711\nOK那運安會解凍的解凍案書那報告中指出113年4月16號以擬定重大運輸事故之範圍修正草案出稿然後草降低啟動調查門檻還有擴大調查範圍方向調整那這邊要請教主委那在本席去年本席的選區桃園八德\n\n9\n00:02:50,271 --> 00:03:13,080\n就是有發生環保志工團千萬宜蘭旅遊那不幸有37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通案件事故那像這樣不幸的重大交通事故是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻還有範圍?這個案子有調查嗎?有有啟動對喔就是太平山方向這個對因為你寫這個我們的名稱不一樣不好意思這個有啟動調查對\n\n10\n00:03:16,488 --> 00:03:42,917\n這個有啟動調查那因為會有很多調查案件超過一年那這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的請主委說明剛剛前面也有提到因為我們一般外面的人就以為是說這不是很簡單幾個月就調查出來嗎事實上我們是有一定的誠信其實國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子但是對社會關注的案子我們當然都會特別加速我們也會加班把人力調拍過來\n\n11\n00:03:44,491 --> 00:04:02,953\n所以一年是最快的時間嗎?我們這個航空有分六級嘛,水路有分三級,那麼鐵道跟公路都分兩級。一級是18個月,二級12個月就調查完成。那特殊的案子會就剛剛報告過了,我們會加速腳步。\n\n12\n00:04:04,763 --> 00:04:31,292\n這樣子看下來最快是一年嗎?通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間?一般都是至少一年因為因為這個整個調查的階段齁這個階段我跟委員報告一下比如說我們如果把這個調查分成三大階段齁有調查階段有報告斷水階段有審查階段那在現場說證階段有比如說我機動小組去收集資料然後那個證據然後協調資料的收集要歸納\n\n13\n00:04:32,532 --> 00:04:56,047\n那有時候譬如說有發生事故我們去訪談當事人一訪談就訪談兩三個月因為因為碰到困難嘛什麼樣的困難就是就是有些人有個人隱私啊或什麼他會害怕嘛等等那那譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又跟著說要因為他會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎因為他會有想過要縮短這個期程嗎這個流程對\n\n14\n00:04:56,807 --> 00:05:01,111\n主委您提到人數,那運安會的預算,預算緣額是93人,願聘人員就有71人,請問流動目前人員的流動率如何?\n\n15\n00:05:13,081 --> 00:05:14,402\n我本期真的要問到,這樣子對專業的調查判斷還有累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響?\n\n16\n00:05:32,930 --> 00:06:01,712\n目前還好啦但是我們會有捉襟見肘確實人力不足沒有錯所以我們現在總理很多常常都在加班在調查確實謝謝委員關心就是這個然後我們要的幾個委員我們通知他來interview他醫護很好可是他說不要我要去台積電台積電薪水比較高找不到人阿那主委要不要走過鏡頭喊話一下就是說目前我們醫院會非常需要人才OK好謝謝主委好謝謝邱若華\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4739\t7684\t謝謝主席有請主委請您主委\n13670\t39675\t主委好在我們運安會的書面報告一剛開始有指出啊自從108年8月1號的成立至今那運安會執掌重大的事故調查還有透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能造勢的原因還有安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似的事件再次發生那本席這邊想要請教主委那通常調查報告還有改進的建議事項\n41135\t66284\t如果主管機關不重視或是不認同的話運安會要怎麼因應主管機關不重視我們在行政院的定期檢討會裡面我會在會中提報行政院是管他的他會叫那個目的式軟機關要求他會譬如說台鐵他會列一個專案請他來報那我這邊提到的是主管機關不重視或是不認同運安\n67366\t80797\t我們運安會就是做出來的報告那你們要怎麼做因應我覺得我剛剛講這個我們會往上報因為我們也是行政機關他也是行政機關我們我們跟他是平行那由上面的行政院來督導他來跟他講沒有錯\n83280\t97480\t是因為這邊有說就是原案會提出改善金以防止類似的事件再次發生那要是再次發生因為我們又再次看到有類似的交通事故的話那對於調查技術還有作業流程有沒有檢討和也有調整\n99209\t119955\t目前為止還沒有實在難行但是就剛委員提的譬如說譬如說水路水路有漁水人的港口漁水人的一些作業管理的問題的時候他一直在發生在發生那我們就會跟交通部講說你這個制度有問題他現在已經啟動了像這種的行政院也跟他講說這個是確實嚴重的問題所以只是做到告知嗎\n120795\t143295\t對,他會告訴他就是提出其他專業相關你們的建議以防止憾事再次發生我們甚至在去年去年由我本人跟我們的水路組的組長到交通部去拜會次長跟他開一個聯席會議那也告訴他問題之所在他們也嚇他們的次長部長也嚇了一跳說啊怎麼會這麼這麼嚴重或什麼他們已經啟動了像這種有得到預許的效果\n148254\t169711\tOK那運安會解凍的解凍案書那報告中指出113年4月16號以擬定重大運輸事故之範圍修正草案出稿然後草降低啟動調查門檻還有擴大調查範圍方向調整那這邊要請教主委那在本席去年本席的選區桃園八德\n170271\t193080\t就是有發生環保志工團千萬宜蘭旅遊那不幸有37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通案件事故那像這樣不幸的重大交通事故是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻還有範圍?這個案子有調查嗎?有有啟動對喔就是太平山方向這個對因為你寫這個我們的名稱不一樣不好意思這個有啟動調查對\n196488\t222917\t這個有啟動調查那因為會有很多調查案件超過一年那這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的請主委說明剛剛前面也有提到因為我們一般外面的人就以為是說這不是很簡單幾個月就調查出來嗎事實上我們是有一定的誠信其實國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子但是對社會關注的案子我們當然都會特別加速我們也會加班把人力調拍過來\n224491\t242953\t所以一年是最快的時間嗎?我們這個航空有分六級嘛,水路有分三級,那麼鐵道跟公路都分兩級。一級是18個月,二級12個月就調查完成。那特殊的案子會就剛剛報告過了,我們會加速腳步。\n244763\t271292\t這樣子看下來最快是一年嗎?通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間?一般都是至少一年因為因為這個整個調查的階段齁這個階段我跟委員報告一下比如說我們如果把這個調查分成三大階段齁有調查階段有報告斷水階段有審查階段那在現場說證階段有比如說我機動小組去收集資料然後那個證據然後協調資料的收集要歸納\n272532\t296047\t那有時候譬如說有發生事故我們去訪談當事人一訪談就訪談兩三個月因為因為碰到困難嘛什麼樣的困難就是就是有些人有個人隱私啊或什麼他會害怕嘛等等那那譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又跟著說要因為他會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎因為他會有想過要縮短這個期程嗎這個流程對\n296807\t301111\t主委您提到人數,那運安會的預算,預算緣額是93人,願聘人員就有71人,請問流動目前人員的流動率如何?\n313081\t314402\t我本期真的要問到,這樣子對專業的調查判斷還有累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響?\n332930\t361712\t目前還好啦但是我們會有捉襟見肘確實人力不足沒有錯所以我們現在總理很多常常都在加班在調查確實謝謝委員關心就是這個然後我們要的幾個委員我們通知他來interview他醫護很好可是他說不要我要去台積電台積電薪水比較高找不到人阿那主委要不要走過鏡頭喊話一下就是說目前我們醫院會非常需要人才OK好謝謝主委好謝謝邱若華\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請主委請您主委\n主委好在我們運安會的書面報告一剛開始有指出啊自從108年8月1號的成立至今那運安會執掌重大的事故調查還有透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能造勢的原因還有安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似的事件再次發生那本席這邊想要請教主委那通常調查報告還有改進的建議事項\n如果主管機關不重視或是不認同的話運安會要怎麼因應主管機關不重視我們在行政院的定期檢討會裡面我會在會中提報行政院是管他的他會叫那個目的式軟機關要求他會譬如說台鐵他會列一個專案請他來報那我這邊提到的是主管機關不重視或是不認同運安\n我們運安會就是做出來的報告那你們要怎麼做因應我覺得我剛剛講這個我們會往上報因為我們也是行政機關他也是行政機關我們我們跟他是平行那由上面的行政院來督導他來跟他講沒有錯\n是因為這邊有說就是原案會提出改善金以防止類似的事件再次發生那要是再次發生因為我們又再次看到有類似的交通事故的話那對於調查技術還有作業流程有沒有檢討和也有調整\n目前為止還沒有實在難行但是就剛委員提的譬如說譬如說水路水路有漁水人的港口漁水人的一些作業管理的問題的時候他一直在發生在發生那我們就會跟交通部講說你這個制度有問題他現在已經啟動了像這種的行政院也跟他講說這個是確實嚴重的問題所以只是做到告知嗎\n對,他會告訴他就是提出其他專業相關你們的建議以防止憾事再次發生我們甚至在去年去年由我本人跟我們的水路組的組長到交通部去拜會次長跟他開一個聯席會議那也告訴他問題之所在他們也嚇他們的次長部長也嚇了一跳說啊怎麼會這麼這麼嚴重或什麼他們已經啟動了像這種有得到預許的效果\nOK那運安會解凍的解凍案書那報告中指出113年4月16號以擬定重大運輸事故之範圍修正草案出稿然後草降低啟動調查門檻還有擴大調查範圍方向調整那這邊要請教主委那在本席去年本席的選區桃園八德\n就是有發生環保志工團千萬宜蘭旅遊那不幸有37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通案件事故那像這樣不幸的重大交通事故是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻還有範圍?這個案子有調查嗎?有有啟動對喔就是太平山方向這個對因為你寫這個我們的名稱不一樣不好意思這個有啟動調查對\n這個有啟動調查那因為會有很多調查案件超過一年那這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的請主委說明剛剛前面也有提到因為我們一般外面的人就以為是說這不是很簡單幾個月就調查出來嗎事實上我們是有一定的誠信其實國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子但是對社會關注的案子我們當然都會特別加速我們也會加班把人力調拍過來\n所以一年是最快的時間嗎?我們這個航空有分六級嘛,水路有分三級,那麼鐵道跟公路都分兩級。一級是18個月,二級12個月就調查完成。那特殊的案子會就剛剛報告過了,我們會加速腳步。\n這樣子看下來最快是一年嗎?通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間?一般都是至少一年因為因為這個整個調查的階段齁這個階段我跟委員報告一下比如說我們如果把這個調查分成三大階段齁有調查階段有報告斷水階段有審查階段那在現場說證階段有比如說我機動小組去收集資料然後那個證據然後協調資料的收集要歸納\n那有時候譬如說有發生事故我們去訪談當事人一訪談就訪談兩三個月因為因為碰到困難嘛什麼樣的困難就是就是有些人有個人隱私啊或什麼他會害怕嘛等等那那譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又跟著說要因為他會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎因為他會有想過要縮短這個期程嗎這個流程對\n主委您提到人數,那運安會的預算,預算緣額是93人,願聘人員就有71人,請問流動目前人員的流動率如何?\n我本期真的要問到,這樣子對專業的調查判斷還有累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響?\n目前還好啦但是我們會有捉襟見肘確實人力不足沒有錯所以我們現在總理很多常常都在加班在調查確實謝謝委員關心就是這個然後我們要的幾個委員我們通知他來interview他醫護很好可是他說不要我要去台積電台積電薪水比較高找不到人阿那主委要不要走過鏡頭喊話一下就是說目前我們醫院會非常需要人才OK好謝謝主委好謝謝邱若華\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.739 --> 00:07.684\n謝謝主席有請主委請您主委\n\n00:13.670 --> 00:39.675\n主委好在我們運安會的書面報告一剛開始有指出啊自從108年8月1號的成立至今那運安會執掌重大的事故調查還有透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能造勢的原因還有安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似的事件再次發生那本席這邊想要請教主委那通常調查報告還有改進的建議事項\n\n00:41.135 --> 01:06.284\n如果主管機關不重視或是不認同的話運安會要怎麼因應主管機關不重視我們在行政院的定期檢討會裡面我會在會中提報行政院是管他的他會叫那個目的式軟機關要求他會譬如說台鐵他會列一個專案請他來報那我這邊提到的是主管機關不重視或是不認同運安\n\n01:07.366 --> 01:20.797\n我們運安會就是做出來的報告那你們要怎麼做因應我覺得我剛剛講這個我們會往上報因為我們也是行政機關他也是行政機關我們我們跟他是平行那由上面的行政院來督導他來跟他講沒有錯\n\n01:23.280 --> 01:37.480\n是因為這邊有說就是原案會提出改善金以防止類似的事件再次發生那要是再次發生因為我們又再次看到有類似的交通事故的話那對於調查技術還有作業流程有沒有檢討和也有調整\n\n01:39.209 --> 01:59.955\n目前為止還沒有實在難行但是就剛委員提的譬如說譬如說水路水路有漁水人的港口漁水人的一些作業管理的問題的時候他一直在發生在發生那我們就會跟交通部講說你這個制度有問題他現在已經啟動了像這種的行政院也跟他講說這個是確實嚴重的問題所以只是做到告知嗎\n\n02:00.795 --> 02:23.295\n對,他會告訴他就是提出其他專業相關你們的建議以防止憾事再次發生我們甚至在去年去年由我本人跟我們的水路組的組長到交通部去拜會次長跟他開一個聯席會議那也告訴他問題之所在他們也嚇他們的次長部長也嚇了一跳說啊怎麼會這麼這麼嚴重或什麼他們已經啟動了像這種有得到預許的效果\n\n02:28.254 --> 02:49.711\nOK那運安會解凍的解凍案書那報告中指出113年4月16號以擬定重大運輸事故之範圍修正草案出稿然後草降低啟動調查門檻還有擴大調查範圍方向調整那這邊要請教主委那在本席去年本席的選區桃園八德\n\n02:50.271 --> 03:13.080\n就是有發生環保志工團千萬宜蘭旅遊那不幸有37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通案件事故那像這樣不幸的重大交通事故是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻還有範圍?這個案子有調查嗎?有有啟動對喔就是太平山方向這個對因為你寫這個我們的名稱不一樣不好意思這個有啟動調查對\n\n03:16.488 --> 03:42.917\n這個有啟動調查那因為會有很多調查案件超過一年那這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的請主委說明剛剛前面也有提到因為我們一般外面的人就以為是說這不是很簡單幾個月就調查出來嗎事實上我們是有一定的誠信其實國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子但是對社會關注的案子我們當然都會特別加速我們也會加班把人力調拍過來\n\n03:44.491 --> 04:02.953\n所以一年是最快的時間嗎?我們這個航空有分六級嘛,水路有分三級,那麼鐵道跟公路都分兩級。一級是18個月,二級12個月就調查完成。那特殊的案子會就剛剛報告過了,我們會加速腳步。\n\n04:04.763 --> 04:31.292\n這樣子看下來最快是一年嗎?通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間?一般都是至少一年因為因為這個整個調查的階段齁這個階段我跟委員報告一下比如說我們如果把這個調查分成三大階段齁有調查階段有報告斷水階段有審查階段那在現場說證階段有比如說我機動小組去收集資料然後那個證據然後協調資料的收集要歸納\n\n04:32.532 --> 04:56.047\n那有時候譬如說有發生事故我們去訪談當事人一訪談就訪談兩三個月因為因為碰到困難嘛什麼樣的困難就是就是有些人有個人隱私啊或什麼他會害怕嘛等等那那譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又跟著說要因為他會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎因為他會有想過要縮短這個期程嗎這個流程對\n\n04:56.807 --> 05:01.111\n主委您提到人數,那運安會的預算,預算緣額是93人,願聘人員就有71人,請問流動目前人員的流動率如何?\n\n05:13.081 --> 05:14.402\n我本期真的要問到,這樣子對專業的調查判斷還有累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響?\n\n05:32.930 --> 06:01.712\n目前還好啦但是我們會有捉襟見肘確實人力不足沒有錯所以我們現在總理很多常常都在加班在調查確實謝謝委員關心就是這個然後我們要的幾個委員我們通知他來interview他醫護很好可是他說不要我要去台積電台積電薪水比較高找不到人阿那主委要不要走過鏡頭喊話一下就是說目前我們醫院會非常需要人才OK好謝謝主委好謝謝邱若華\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.739,"end":7.684,"text":"謝謝主席有請主委請您主委"},{"start":13.67,"end":39.675,"text":"主委好在我們運安會的書面報告一剛開始有指出啊自從108年8月1號的成立至今那運安會執掌重大的事故調查還有透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能造勢的原因還有安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似的事件再次發生那本席這邊想要請教主委那通常調查報告還有改進的建議事項"},{"start":41.135,"end":66.284,"text":"如果主管機關不重視或是不認同的話運安會要怎麼因應主管機關不重視我們在行政院的定期檢討會裡面我會在會中提報行政院是管他的他會叫那個目的式軟機關要求他會譬如說台鐵他會列一個專案請他來報那我這邊提到的是主管機關不重視或是不認同運安"},{"start":67.366,"end":80.797,"text":"我們運安會就是做出來的報告那你們要怎麼做因應我覺得我剛剛講這個我們會往上報因為我們也是行政機關他也是行政機關我們我們跟他是平行那由上面的行政院來督導他來跟他講沒有錯"},{"start":83.28,"end":97.48,"text":"是因為這邊有說就是原案會提出改善金以防止類似的事件再次發生那要是再次發生因為我們又再次看到有類似的交通事故的話那對於調查技術還有作業流程有沒有檢討和也有調整"},{"start":99.209,"end":119.955,"text":"目前為止還沒有實在難行但是就剛委員提的譬如說譬如說水路水路有漁水人的港口漁水人的一些作業管理的問題的時候他一直在發生在發生那我們就會跟交通部講說你這個制度有問題他現在已經啟動了像這種的行政院也跟他講說這個是確實嚴重的問題所以只是做到告知嗎"},{"start":120.795,"end":143.295,"text":"對,他會告訴他就是提出其他專業相關你們的建議以防止憾事再次發生我們甚至在去年去年由我本人跟我們的水路組的組長到交通部去拜會次長跟他開一個聯席會議那也告訴他問題之所在他們也嚇他們的次長部長也嚇了一跳說啊怎麼會這麼這麼嚴重或什麼他們已經啟動了像這種有得到預許的效果"},{"start":148.254,"end":169.711,"text":"OK那運安會解凍的解凍案書那報告中指出113年4月16號以擬定重大運輸事故之範圍修正草案出稿然後草降低啟動調查門檻還有擴大調查範圍方向調整那這邊要請教主委那在本席去年本席的選區桃園八德"},{"start":170.271,"end":193.08,"text":"就是有發生環保志工團千萬宜蘭旅遊那不幸有37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通案件事故那像這樣不幸的重大交通事故是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻還有範圍?這個案子有調查嗎?有有啟動對喔就是太平山方向這個對因為你寫這個我們的名稱不一樣不好意思這個有啟動調查對"},{"start":196.488,"end":222.917,"text":"這個有啟動調查那因為會有很多調查案件超過一年那這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的請主委說明剛剛前面也有提到因為我們一般外面的人就以為是說這不是很簡單幾個月就調查出來嗎事實上我們是有一定的誠信其實國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子但是對社會關注的案子我們當然都會特別加速我們也會加班把人力調拍過來"},{"start":224.491,"end":242.953,"text":"所以一年是最快的時間嗎?我們這個航空有分六級嘛,水路有分三級,那麼鐵道跟公路都分兩級。一級是18個月,二級12個月就調查完成。那特殊的案子會就剛剛報告過了,我們會加速腳步。"},{"start":244.763,"end":271.292,"text":"這樣子看下來最快是一年嗎?通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間?一般都是至少一年因為因為這個整個調查的階段齁這個階段我跟委員報告一下比如說我們如果把這個調查分成三大階段齁有調查階段有報告斷水階段有審查階段那在現場說證階段有比如說我機動小組去收集資料然後那個證據然後協調資料的收集要歸納"},{"start":272.532,"end":296.047,"text":"那有時候譬如說有發生事故我們去訪談當事人一訪談就訪談兩三個月因為因為碰到困難嘛什麼樣的困難就是就是有些人有個人隱私啊或什麼他會害怕嘛等等那那譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又跟著說要因為他會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎因為他會有想過要縮短這個期程嗎這個流程對"},{"start":296.807,"end":301.111,"text":"主委您提到人數,那運安會的預算,預算緣額是93人,願聘人員就有71人,請問流動目前人員的流動率如何?"},{"start":313.081,"end":314.402,"text":"我本期真的要問到,這樣子對專業的調查判斷還有累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響?"},{"start":332.93,"end":361.712,"text":"目前還好啦但是我們會有捉襟見肘確實人力不足沒有錯所以我們現在總理很多常常都在加班在調查確實謝謝委員關心就是這個然後我們要的幾個委員我們通知他來interview他醫護很好可是他說不要我要去台積電台積電薪水比較高找不到人阿那主委要不要走過鏡頭喊話一下就是說目前我們醫院會非常需要人才OK好謝謝主委好謝謝邱若華"}]}}}}