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rules鋪好了，請你回去回想清楚，張綱維這一個人在行政院到底是借誰的勢，可以嗎？"],["李秘書長孟諺：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。","再來請麥玉珍委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-13","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃建賓","丁學忠","高金素梅","張智倫","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","黃國昌","麥玉珍","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計 8案；二、處理113年度中\n央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計1案；三、審查113年度中央政府\n總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案；四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨\n產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案","agenda_id":"1133201_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"151557","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151557","tool":"pyannote","id":"151557-pyannote"},"job_id":"ihEjWNwH6xB578lz","queued_at":"2024-05-31 19:59:47","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 20:00:53","msg":"downloading 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{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"麥\"}, {\"word\": \"玉\", \"start\": 541.59, \"end\": 541.75, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"珍\", \"start\": 541.75, \"end\": 542.03, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 542.03, \"end\": 542.05, \"score\": 0.373}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:28,612\n來,謝謝主席,麻煩有請秘書長。委員好。秘書長好,今天行政院預算的結論報告裡面提到有關於追悼者保護法的事情。我看了報告,我必須要說,我非常震驚。追悼者保護法,民進黨政府從2017年,從2017年,撕改國事會議,做成結論說要定,\n\n2\n00:00:32,967 --> 00:00:51,367\n定到今天我在院會質詢院長的時候他告訴我還在研議結果你們今天交出來的報告你們今天交出來的報告是秘書長你覺得在行政院院長卸任以前吹哨者保護法的報告提的出來嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:53,438 --> 00:01:11,068\n我的了解是他在今年的3月4號有再送到院。我知道,我們不斷地在審查啦。我的問題5月19號之前提得出來嗎?我想我們朝這個方向來努力,但是...但是有困難是不是?沒有困難就說有困難嘛!\n\n4\n00:01:12,591 --> 00:01:34,148\n有沒有困難?呃我的了解是羅政委還在持續的呃溝通我再問你說考量公部門制度較完善清廉度要求較高為了尊重公司治理政策定調為公部門先行私部門採取行政指導請問這個政策何時定調?由誰定調?\n\n5\n00:01:37,068 --> 00:02:00,655\n目前我的了解是他的法案的內容是以公部門的接避者保護做為主頭你不用跟我講今天你們提了書面報告到內政委員會來嘛行政院提這個報告就要負責嘛說政策定調是公部門先行私部門再看看用行政指導這個政策何時定調由誰定調\n\n6\n00:02:03,001 --> 00:02:26,190\n這是我的問題請回答我的了解是目前法務部提出來就是這個內容那至於這個協商的過程我可能還要再進一步的了解今天行政院提給立法院的報告做了這麼重大的政策宣示到底是由誰定調何時定調這件事非常非常重要為什麼重要\n\n7\n00:02:27,768 --> 00:02:35,458\n思改國事會議的結論崔少哲保護法的部分是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了?\n\n8\n00:02:36,809 --> 00:03:05,496\n是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了我們的瞭解當時大家的期待是希望公司部門都能夠有配照品那不是大家的期待啦那是思改國際會議的結論啦思改國際會議的期待行政院提出來的聯合國反貪腐公約第二次國家報告裡面報告的內容說要定的是公司部門要一起定還是可以只定公部門這報告是你們行政院寫的啊\n\n9\n00:03:07,435 --> 00:03:19,584\n你們在國家報告裡面敢這樣寫結果今天送到內政委員會來的報告政策方向180度大轉彎欸誰有這麼大的權限無視施改國是會議決議的內容誰有這麼大的權限\n\n10\n00:03:27,898 --> 00:03:56,138\n把國家反貪腐公約的國家報告最新的國家報告直接丟到垃圾桶所以我們現在只要訂公部門不要訂私部門所以我才問你嘛所以我才問你嘛到底是誰做的決定什麼時候做這個決定憑什麼做這個決定並不是私部門就不受監管或是不入法但是這是一個循序漸進的過程因為當初拖了半天所有的行政官員\n\n11\n00:03:57,459 --> 00:04:09,018\n給唐賽的理由是私部門要定範圍要弄多大是不是限於上市櫃的公司問題很複雜大家還在討論\n\n12\n00:04:11,062 --> 00:04:30,168\n結果沒有跟社會報告沒有跟社會溝通推翻撕改國事會議決議的內容把自己聯合國反貪腐公約的國家報告丟到垃圾桶做這樣的政策宣示出來所以我才要問嘛誰做的政策決定誰要負責憑什麼做這個決定\n\n13\n00:04:34,141 --> 00:04:41,911\n您回去了解清楚了以後請行政院正式發一個新聞稿跟全體國人解釋可以嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:43,407 --> 00:05:09,333\n我想這個部分就是他並不是把私部門排除在外而是這是一個循序漸進的立法的過程公部門先行那如果順利你們上面不是寫嗎對政策定調你們現在就是要做公部門嘛我講白話我就是私部門的沒有在吹哨子保護法的範圍內嘛我有說錯嗎對但是未來不排除會把私部門加進來我跟你講未來的事情就不要再講了啦\n\n15\n00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,723\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。我接下來要請教你就是說有一個很皮的人叫張剛偉\n\n16\n00:05:40,334 --> 00:06:08,020\n因為你接下來要接交通部部長了嘛我直接先跟你檢舉阿我為什麼說阿他很皮2019年遠東航空無預警停飛被交通部廢證了當初張剛維阿政商關係很好找了一堆阿股人想要幫他來去解套看可不可以不要廢證然後呢\n\n17\n00:06:10,055 --> 00:06:36,164\n還去找了廖燦昌來幫他喬貸款現在廖燦昌炸彈的事情因為遠東航空的事情被起訴囉張剛維自己偷空遠航的事情也被起訴囉然後我們從檢察官2020年7月的起訴書才發現有人檢舉張剛維後台很硬啊原來是真的啊\n\n18\n00:06:37,554 --> 00:07:03,491\n除了找廖燦昌以外後面還找了當初行政院的副院長林錫耀檢察官有跟監喔起訴書裡面的內容指證歷例指證歷例張剛維是仗誰的事啊行政院副院長幫他出面找廖燦昌搞炸彈\n\n19\n00:07:05,083 --> 00:07:26,682\n然後什麼然後是遠航被廢證了以後現在很皮阿我今天就是要跟準交通部部長檢舉阿他很皮阿雙山機場遠航的總部阿賴著不拆賴著不拆還讓我們的交通部阿去申請強制執行秘書長這件事情你有沒有掌握\n\n20\n00:07:29,350 --> 00:07:50,645\n這個部分我大概也是從包括相關的文件跟媒體的報導有所瞭解你全部都是從媒體瞭解的目前的那如果就任之後我會再進一步的深入瞭解不過我知道這個案子整個是在張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事整個是在司法的審查的階段張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事沒有你認識張崗偉嗎我認識這個人你認識這個人是\n\n21\n00:07:56,161 --> 00:07:59,382\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n22\n00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:43,996\n我現在給你機會講清楚喔因為現在我們的國會制度不夠齊全啦在國會說謊是沒有關係啦隨便亂講都沒有關係不用負責任啦所以我們現在才在推國會改革嘛未來在國會的時候說謊就有責任喔這一題我請秘書長回去回想想清楚喔你上任交通部部長的時候我一定會問\n\n23\n00:08:45,117 --> 00:09:02,050\n我一定會問今天我先把光入了鋪好了是請你回去回想清楚張剛維這個人在行政院到底是借誰的事可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員再來請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4220\t28612\t來,謝謝主席,麻煩有請秘書長。委員好。秘書長好,今天行政院預算的結論報告裡面提到有關於追悼者保護法的事情。我看了報告,我必須要說,我非常震驚。追悼者保護法,民進黨政府從2017年,從2017年,撕改國事會議,做成結論說要定,\n32967\t51367\t定到今天我在院會質詢院長的時候他告訴我還在研議結果你們今天交出來的報告你們今天交出來的報告是秘書長你覺得在行政院院長卸任以前吹哨者保護法的報告提的出來嗎?\n53438\t71068\t我的了解是他在今年的3月4號有再送到院。我知道,我們不斷地在審查啦。我的問題5月19號之前提得出來嗎?我想我們朝這個方向來努力,但是...但是有困難是不是?沒有困難就說有困難嘛!\n72591\t94148\t有沒有困難?呃我的了解是羅政委還在持續的呃溝通我再問你說考量公部門制度較完善清廉度要求較高為了尊重公司治理政策定調為公部門先行私部門採取行政指導請問這個政策何時定調?由誰定調?\n97068\t120655\t目前我的了解是他的法案的內容是以公部門的接避者保護做為主頭你不用跟我講今天你們提了書面報告到內政委員會來嘛行政院提這個報告就要負責嘛說政策定調是公部門先行私部門再看看用行政指導這個政策何時定調由誰定調\n123001\t146190\t這是我的問題請回答我的了解是目前法務部提出來就是這個內容那至於這個協商的過程我可能還要再進一步的了解今天行政院提給立法院的報告做了這麼重大的政策宣示到底是由誰定調何時定調這件事非常非常重要為什麼重要\n147768\t155458\t思改國事會議的結論崔少哲保護法的部分是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了?\n156809\t185496\t是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了我們的瞭解當時大家的期待是希望公司部門都能夠有配照品那不是大家的期待啦那是思改國際會議的結論啦思改國際會議的期待行政院提出來的聯合國反貪腐公約第二次國家報告裡面報告的內容說要定的是公司部門要一起定還是可以只定公部門這報告是你們行政院寫的啊\n187435\t199584\t你們在國家報告裡面敢這樣寫結果今天送到內政委員會來的報告政策方向180度大轉彎欸誰有這麼大的權限無視施改國是會議決議的內容誰有這麼大的權限\n207898\t236138\t把國家反貪腐公約的國家報告最新的國家報告直接丟到垃圾桶所以我們現在只要訂公部門不要訂私部門所以我才問你嘛所以我才問你嘛到底是誰做的決定什麼時候做這個決定憑什麼做這個決定並不是私部門就不受監管或是不入法但是這是一個循序漸進的過程因為當初拖了半天所有的行政官員\n237459\t249018\t給唐賽的理由是私部門要定範圍要弄多大是不是限於上市櫃的公司問題很複雜大家還在討論\n251062\t270168\t結果沒有跟社會報告沒有跟社會溝通推翻撕改國事會議決議的內容把自己聯合國反貪腐公約的國家報告丟到垃圾桶做這樣的政策宣示出來所以我才要問嘛誰做的政策決定誰要負責憑什麼做這個決定\n274141\t281911\t您回去了解清楚了以後請行政院正式發一個新聞稿跟全體國人解釋可以嗎?\n283407\t309333\t我想這個部分就是他並不是把私部門排除在外而是這是一個循序漸進的立法的過程公部門先行那如果順利你們上面不是寫嗎對政策定調你們現在就是要做公部門嘛我講白話我就是私部門的沒有在吹哨子保護法的範圍內嘛我有說錯嗎對但是未來不排除會把私部門加進來我跟你講未來的事情就不要再講了啦\n310680\t315723\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。我接下來要請教你就是說有一個很皮的人叫張剛偉\n340334\t368020\t因為你接下來要接交通部部長了嘛我直接先跟你檢舉阿我為什麼說阿他很皮2019年遠東航空無預警停飛被交通部廢證了當初張剛維阿政商關係很好找了一堆阿股人想要幫他來去解套看可不可以不要廢證然後呢\n370055\t396164\t還去找了廖燦昌來幫他喬貸款現在廖燦昌炸彈的事情因為遠東航空的事情被起訴囉張剛維自己偷空遠航的事情也被起訴囉然後我們從檢察官2020年7月的起訴書才發現有人檢舉張剛維後台很硬啊原來是真的啊\n397554\t423491\t除了找廖燦昌以外後面還找了當初行政院的副院長林錫耀檢察官有跟監喔起訴書裡面的內容指證歷例指證歷例張剛維是仗誰的事啊行政院副院長幫他出面找廖燦昌搞炸彈\n425083\t446682\t然後什麼然後是遠航被廢證了以後現在很皮阿我今天就是要跟準交通部部長檢舉阿他很皮阿雙山機場遠航的總部阿賴著不拆賴著不拆還讓我們的交通部阿去申請強制執行秘書長這件事情你有沒有掌握\n449350\t470645\t這個部分我大概也是從包括相關的文件跟媒體的報導有所瞭解你全部都是從媒體瞭解的目前的那如果就任之後我會再進一步的深入瞭解不過我知道這個案子整個是在張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事整個是在司法的審查的階段張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事沒有你認識張崗偉嗎我認識這個人你認識這個人是\n476161\t479382\t三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n498700\t523996\t我現在給你機會講清楚喔因為現在我們的國會制度不夠齊全啦在國會說謊是沒有關係啦隨便亂講都沒有關係不用負責任啦所以我們現在才在推國會改革嘛未來在國會的時候說謊就有責任喔這一題我請秘書長回去回想想清楚喔你上任交通部部長的時候我一定會問\n525117\t542050\t我一定會問今天我先把光入了鋪好了是請你回去回想清楚張剛維這個人在行政院到底是借誰的事可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員再來請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝\n","txt":"來,謝謝主席,麻煩有請秘書長。委員好。秘書長好,今天行政院預算的結論報告裡面提到有關於追悼者保護法的事情。我看了報告,我必須要說,我非常震驚。追悼者保護法,民進黨政府從2017年,從2017年,撕改國事會議,做成結論說要定,\n定到今天我在院會質詢院長的時候他告訴我還在研議結果你們今天交出來的報告你們今天交出來的報告是秘書長你覺得在行政院院長卸任以前吹哨者保護法的報告提的出來嗎?\n我的了解是他在今年的3月4號有再送到院。我知道,我們不斷地在審查啦。我的問題5月19號之前提得出來嗎?我想我們朝這個方向來努力,但是...但是有困難是不是?沒有困難就說有困難嘛!\n有沒有困難?呃我的了解是羅政委還在持續的呃溝通我再問你說考量公部門制度較完善清廉度要求較高為了尊重公司治理政策定調為公部門先行私部門採取行政指導請問這個政策何時定調?由誰定調?\n目前我的了解是他的法案的內容是以公部門的接避者保護做為主頭你不用跟我講今天你們提了書面報告到內政委員會來嘛行政院提這個報告就要負責嘛說政策定調是公部門先行私部門再看看用行政指導這個政策何時定調由誰定調\n這是我的問題請回答我的了解是目前法務部提出來就是這個內容那至於這個協商的過程我可能還要再進一步的了解今天行政院提給立法院的報告做了這麼重大的政策宣示到底是由誰定調何時定調這件事非常非常重要為什麼重要\n思改國事會議的結論崔少哲保護法的部分是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了?\n是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了我們的瞭解當時大家的期待是希望公司部門都能夠有配照品那不是大家的期待啦那是思改國際會議的結論啦思改國際會議的期待行政院提出來的聯合國反貪腐公約第二次國家報告裡面報告的內容說要定的是公司部門要一起定還是可以只定公部門這報告是你們行政院寫的啊\n你們在國家報告裡面敢這樣寫結果今天送到內政委員會來的報告政策方向180度大轉彎欸誰有這麼大的權限無視施改國是會議決議的內容誰有這麼大的權限\n把國家反貪腐公約的國家報告最新的國家報告直接丟到垃圾桶所以我們現在只要訂公部門不要訂私部門所以我才問你嘛所以我才問你嘛到底是誰做的決定什麼時候做這個決定憑什麼做這個決定並不是私部門就不受監管或是不入法但是這是一個循序漸進的過程因為當初拖了半天所有的行政官員\n給唐賽的理由是私部門要定範圍要弄多大是不是限於上市櫃的公司問題很複雜大家還在討論\n結果沒有跟社會報告沒有跟社會溝通推翻撕改國事會議決議的內容把自己聯合國反貪腐公約的國家報告丟到垃圾桶做這樣的政策宣示出來所以我才要問嘛誰做的政策決定誰要負責憑什麼做這個決定\n您回去了解清楚了以後請行政院正式發一個新聞稿跟全體國人解釋可以嗎?\n我想這個部分就是他並不是把私部門排除在外而是這是一個循序漸進的立法的過程公部門先行那如果順利你們上面不是寫嗎對政策定調你們現在就是要做公部門嘛我講白話我就是私部門的沒有在吹哨子保護法的範圍內嘛我有說錯嗎對但是未來不排除會把私部門加進來我跟你講未來的事情就不要再講了啦\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。我接下來要請教你就是說有一個很皮的人叫張剛偉\n因為你接下來要接交通部部長了嘛我直接先跟你檢舉阿我為什麼說阿他很皮2019年遠東航空無預警停飛被交通部廢證了當初張剛維阿政商關係很好找了一堆阿股人想要幫他來去解套看可不可以不要廢證然後呢\n還去找了廖燦昌來幫他喬貸款現在廖燦昌炸彈的事情因為遠東航空的事情被起訴囉張剛維自己偷空遠航的事情也被起訴囉然後我們從檢察官2020年7月的起訴書才發現有人檢舉張剛維後台很硬啊原來是真的啊\n除了找廖燦昌以外後面還找了當初行政院的副院長林錫耀檢察官有跟監喔起訴書裡面的內容指證歷例指證歷例張剛維是仗誰的事啊行政院副院長幫他出面找廖燦昌搞炸彈\n然後什麼然後是遠航被廢證了以後現在很皮阿我今天就是要跟準交通部部長檢舉阿他很皮阿雙山機場遠航的總部阿賴著不拆賴著不拆還讓我們的交通部阿去申請強制執行秘書長這件事情你有沒有掌握\n這個部分我大概也是從包括相關的文件跟媒體的報導有所瞭解你全部都是從媒體瞭解的目前的那如果就任之後我會再進一步的深入瞭解不過我知道這個案子整個是在張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事整個是在司法的審查的階段張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事沒有你認識張崗偉嗎我認識這個人你認識這個人是\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n我現在給你機會講清楚喔因為現在我們的國會制度不夠齊全啦在國會說謊是沒有關係啦隨便亂講都沒有關係不用負責任啦所以我們現在才在推國會改革嘛未來在國會的時候說謊就有責任喔這一題我請秘書長回去回想想清楚喔你上任交通部部長的時候我一定會問\n我一定會問今天我先把光入了鋪好了是請你回去回想清楚張剛維這個人在行政院到底是借誰的事可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員再來請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.220 --> 00:28.612\n來,謝謝主席,麻煩有請秘書長。委員好。秘書長好,今天行政院預算的結論報告裡面提到有關於追悼者保護法的事情。我看了報告,我必須要說,我非常震驚。追悼者保護法,民進黨政府從2017年,從2017年,撕改國事會議,做成結論說要定,\n\n00:32.967 --> 00:51.367\n定到今天我在院會質詢院長的時候他告訴我還在研議結果你們今天交出來的報告你們今天交出來的報告是秘書長你覺得在行政院院長卸任以前吹哨者保護法的報告提的出來嗎?\n\n00:53.438 --> 01:11.068\n我的了解是他在今年的3月4號有再送到院。我知道,我們不斷地在審查啦。我的問題5月19號之前提得出來嗎?我想我們朝這個方向來努力,但是...但是有困難是不是?沒有困難就說有困難嘛!\n\n01:12.591 --> 01:34.148\n有沒有困難?呃我的了解是羅政委還在持續的呃溝通我再問你說考量公部門制度較完善清廉度要求較高為了尊重公司治理政策定調為公部門先行私部門採取行政指導請問這個政策何時定調?由誰定調?\n\n01:37.068 --> 02:00.655\n目前我的了解是他的法案的內容是以公部門的接避者保護做為主頭你不用跟我講今天你們提了書面報告到內政委員會來嘛行政院提這個報告就要負責嘛說政策定調是公部門先行私部門再看看用行政指導這個政策何時定調由誰定調\n\n02:03.001 --> 02:26.190\n這是我的問題請回答我的了解是目前法務部提出來就是這個內容那至於這個協商的過程我可能還要再進一步的了解今天行政院提給立法院的報告做了這麼重大的政策宣示到底是由誰定調何時定調這件事非常非常重要為什麼重要\n\n02:27.768 --> 02:35.458\n思改國事會議的結論崔少哲保護法的部分是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了?\n\n02:36.809 --> 03:05.496\n是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了我們的瞭解當時大家的期待是希望公司部門都能夠有配照品那不是大家的期待啦那是思改國際會議的結論啦思改國際會議的期待行政院提出來的聯合國反貪腐公約第二次國家報告裡面報告的內容說要定的是公司部門要一起定還是可以只定公部門這報告是你們行政院寫的啊\n\n03:07.435 --> 03:19.584\n你們在國家報告裡面敢這樣寫結果今天送到內政委員會來的報告政策方向180度大轉彎欸誰有這麼大的權限無視施改國是會議決議的內容誰有這麼大的權限\n\n03:27.898 --> 03:56.138\n把國家反貪腐公約的國家報告最新的國家報告直接丟到垃圾桶所以我們現在只要訂公部門不要訂私部門所以我才問你嘛所以我才問你嘛到底是誰做的決定什麼時候做這個決定憑什麼做這個決定並不是私部門就不受監管或是不入法但是這是一個循序漸進的過程因為當初拖了半天所有的行政官員\n\n03:57.459 --> 04:09.018\n給唐賽的理由是私部門要定範圍要弄多大是不是限於上市櫃的公司問題很複雜大家還在討論\n\n04:11.062 --> 04:30.168\n結果沒有跟社會報告沒有跟社會溝通推翻撕改國事會議決議的內容把自己聯合國反貪腐公約的國家報告丟到垃圾桶做這樣的政策宣示出來所以我才要問嘛誰做的政策決定誰要負責憑什麼做這個決定\n\n04:34.141 --> 04:41.911\n您回去了解清楚了以後請行政院正式發一個新聞稿跟全體國人解釋可以嗎?\n\n04:43.407 --> 05:09.333\n我想這個部分就是他並不是把私部門排除在外而是這是一個循序漸進的立法的過程公部門先行那如果順利你們上面不是寫嗎對政策定調你們現在就是要做公部門嘛我講白話我就是私部門的沒有在吹哨子保護法的範圍內嘛我有說錯嗎對但是未來不排除會把私部門加進來我跟你講未來的事情就不要再講了啦\n\n05:10.680 --> 05:15.723\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。我接下來要請教你就是說有一個很皮的人叫張剛偉\n\n05:40.334 --> 06:08.020\n因為你接下來要接交通部部長了嘛我直接先跟你檢舉阿我為什麼說阿他很皮2019年遠東航空無預警停飛被交通部廢證了當初張剛維阿政商關係很好找了一堆阿股人想要幫他來去解套看可不可以不要廢證然後呢\n\n06:10.055 --> 06:36.164\n還去找了廖燦昌來幫他喬貸款現在廖燦昌炸彈的事情因為遠東航空的事情被起訴囉張剛維自己偷空遠航的事情也被起訴囉然後我們從檢察官2020年7月的起訴書才發現有人檢舉張剛維後台很硬啊原來是真的啊\n\n06:37.554 --> 07:03.491\n除了找廖燦昌以外後面還找了當初行政院的副院長林錫耀檢察官有跟監喔起訴書裡面的內容指證歷例指證歷例張剛維是仗誰的事啊行政院副院長幫他出面找廖燦昌搞炸彈\n\n07:05.083 --> 07:26.682\n然後什麼然後是遠航被廢證了以後現在很皮阿我今天就是要跟準交通部部長檢舉阿他很皮阿雙山機場遠航的總部阿賴著不拆賴著不拆還讓我們的交通部阿去申請強制執行秘書長這件事情你有沒有掌握\n\n07:29.350 --> 07:50.645\n這個部分我大概也是從包括相關的文件跟媒體的報導有所瞭解你全部都是從媒體瞭解的目前的那如果就任之後我會再進一步的深入瞭解不過我知道這個案子整個是在張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事整個是在司法的審查的階段張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事沒有你認識張崗偉嗎我認識這個人你認識這個人是\n\n07:56.161 --> 07:59.382\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲\n\n08:18.700 --> 08:43.996\n我現在給你機會講清楚喔因為現在我們的國會制度不夠齊全啦在國會說謊是沒有關係啦隨便亂講都沒有關係不用負責任啦所以我們現在才在推國會改革嘛未來在國會的時候說謊就有責任喔這一題我請秘書長回去回想想清楚喔你上任交通部部長的時候我一定會問\n\n08:45.117 --> 09:02.050\n我一定會問今天我先把光入了鋪好了是請你回去回想清楚張剛維這個人在行政院到底是借誰的事可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員再來請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.22,"end":28.612,"text":"來,謝謝主席,麻煩有請秘書長。委員好。秘書長好,今天行政院預算的結論報告裡面提到有關於追悼者保護法的事情。我看了報告,我必須要說,我非常震驚。追悼者保護法,民進黨政府從2017年,從2017年,撕改國事會議,做成結論說要定,"},{"start":32.967,"end":51.367,"text":"定到今天我在院會質詢院長的時候他告訴我還在研議結果你們今天交出來的報告你們今天交出來的報告是秘書長你覺得在行政院院長卸任以前吹哨者保護法的報告提的出來嗎?"},{"start":53.438,"end":71.068,"text":"我的了解是他在今年的3月4號有再送到院。我知道,我們不斷地在審查啦。我的問題5月19號之前提得出來嗎?我想我們朝這個方向來努力,但是...但是有困難是不是?沒有困難就說有困難嘛!"},{"start":72.591,"end":94.148,"text":"有沒有困難?呃我的了解是羅政委還在持續的呃溝通我再問你說考量公部門制度較完善清廉度要求較高為了尊重公司治理政策定調為公部門先行私部門採取行政指導請問這個政策何時定調?由誰定調?"},{"start":97.068,"end":120.655,"text":"目前我的了解是他的法案的內容是以公部門的接避者保護做為主頭你不用跟我講今天你們提了書面報告到內政委員會來嘛行政院提這個報告就要負責嘛說政策定調是公部門先行私部門再看看用行政指導這個政策何時定調由誰定調"},{"start":123.001,"end":146.19,"text":"這是我的問題請回答我的了解是目前法務部提出來就是這個內容那至於這個協商的過程我可能還要再進一步的了解今天行政院提給立法院的報告做了這麼重大的政策宣示到底是由誰定調何時定調這件事非常非常重要為什麼重要"},{"start":147.768,"end":155.458,"text":"思改國事會議的結論崔少哲保護法的部分是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了?"},{"start":156.809,"end":185.496,"text":"是公司部門都要定還是只要定公部門就好了我們的瞭解當時大家的期待是希望公司部門都能夠有配照品那不是大家的期待啦那是思改國際會議的結論啦思改國際會議的期待行政院提出來的聯合國反貪腐公約第二次國家報告裡面報告的內容說要定的是公司部門要一起定還是可以只定公部門這報告是你們行政院寫的啊"},{"start":187.435,"end":199.584,"text":"你們在國家報告裡面敢這樣寫結果今天送到內政委員會來的報告政策方向180度大轉彎欸誰有這麼大的權限無視施改國是會議決議的內容誰有這麼大的權限"},{"start":207.898,"end":236.138,"text":"把國家反貪腐公約的國家報告最新的國家報告直接丟到垃圾桶所以我們現在只要訂公部門不要訂私部門所以我才問你嘛所以我才問你嘛到底是誰做的決定什麼時候做這個決定憑什麼做這個決定並不是私部門就不受監管或是不入法但是這是一個循序漸進的過程因為當初拖了半天所有的行政官員"},{"start":237.459,"end":249.018,"text":"給唐賽的理由是私部門要定範圍要弄多大是不是限於上市櫃的公司問題很複雜大家還在討論"},{"start":251.062,"end":270.168,"text":"結果沒有跟社會報告沒有跟社會溝通推翻撕改國事會議決議的內容把自己聯合國反貪腐公約的國家報告丟到垃圾桶做這樣的政策宣示出來所以我才要問嘛誰做的政策決定誰要負責憑什麼做這個決定"},{"start":274.141,"end":281.911,"text":"您回去了解清楚了以後請行政院正式發一個新聞稿跟全體國人解釋可以嗎?"},{"start":283.407,"end":309.333,"text":"我想這個部分就是他並不是把私部門排除在外而是這是一個循序漸進的立法的過程公部門先行那如果順利你們上面不是寫嗎對政策定調你們現在就是要做公部門嘛我講白話我就是私部門的沒有在吹哨子保護法的範圍內嘛我有說錯嗎對但是未來不排除會把私部門加進來我跟你講未來的事情就不要再講了啦"},{"start":310.68,"end":315.723,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。我接下來要請教你就是說有一個很皮的人叫張剛偉"},{"start":340.334,"end":368.02,"text":"因為你接下來要接交通部部長了嘛我直接先跟你檢舉阿我為什麼說阿他很皮2019年遠東航空無預警停飛被交通部廢證了當初張剛維阿政商關係很好找了一堆阿股人想要幫他來去解套看可不可以不要廢證然後呢"},{"start":370.055,"end":396.164,"text":"還去找了廖燦昌來幫他喬貸款現在廖燦昌炸彈的事情因為遠東航空的事情被起訴囉張剛維自己偷空遠航的事情也被起訴囉然後我們從檢察官2020年7月的起訴書才發現有人檢舉張剛維後台很硬啊原來是真的啊"},{"start":397.554,"end":423.491,"text":"除了找廖燦昌以外後面還找了當初行政院的副院長林錫耀檢察官有跟監喔起訴書裡面的內容指證歷例指證歷例張剛維是仗誰的事啊行政院副院長幫他出面找廖燦昌搞炸彈"},{"start":425.083,"end":446.682,"text":"然後什麼然後是遠航被廢證了以後現在很皮阿我今天就是要跟準交通部部長檢舉阿他很皮阿雙山機場遠航的總部阿賴著不拆賴著不拆還讓我們的交通部阿去申請強制執行秘書長這件事情你有沒有掌握"},{"start":449.35,"end":470.645,"text":"這個部分我大概也是從包括相關的文件跟媒體的報導有所瞭解你全部都是從媒體瞭解的目前的那如果就任之後我會再進一步的深入瞭解不過我知道這個案子整個是在張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事整個是在司法的審查的階段張崗偉沒有跟你提過這件事沒有你認識張崗偉嗎我認識這個人你認識這個人是"},{"start":476.161,"end":479.382,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":498.7,"end":523.996,"text":"我現在給你機會講清楚喔因為現在我們的國會制度不夠齊全啦在國會說謊是沒有關係啦隨便亂講都沒有關係不用負責任啦所以我們現在才在推國會改革嘛未來在國會的時候說謊就有責任喔這一題我請秘書長回去回想想清楚喔你上任交通部部長的時候我一定會問"},{"start":525.117,"end":542.05,"text":"我一定會問今天我先把光入了鋪好了是請你回去回想清楚張剛維這個人在行政院到底是借誰的事可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員再來請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝"}]}}}}