{"id":151562,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151562","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c3367e31d521c43653b37dee175bc8e0be1adcb4691eb09bf4e2205bad23fd2dbfb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:43:17 - 11:55:28","影片長度":"00:12:11","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：\n(一)\t本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(二)\t本院委員黃捷等19人、委員羅明才等16人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等2案。【本院委員羅明才等16人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n二、審查「保險法」4案：\n(一)\t本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員王鴻薇等16人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院台灣民眾黨黨團提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案。\n【4月22日及24日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-10"},"duration":731,"end_time":"2024-04-22T11:55:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T11:43:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":704,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時43分）謝謝主席，我想先請金管會主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委，今天針對保險法大概有兩個部分的修正，其中一個就是有關於保險業對國外投資的上限是不是有下降的空間？我看你們的報告寫得洋洋灑灑，包含現在壽險業投資標的，還有在整個歷史上，為什麼過去是逐步調高他們對海外投資的上限。不過我覺得今天討論這個問題主要有一個重點，就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常多，金額非常高，尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候，雖然現在很多的淨值事實上是虧損的，可是那個時候大家瘋ETF，也顯示出國內投資管道跟工具的不足，但是我們如何導引這樣一個公共性資金，就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設，這是這一次條文修正所希望的目標。","另外，我從你們的報告中看到，相關金額事實上讓我非常訝異，你們的報告中提到，壽險業的資金在今年2月底達到31.93兆，但相對的，去年年底保險業資金實際在辦理專案運用、公共及社會福利事業之投資金額，包含加計不動產地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額，以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設之金額，夯不啷噹全部加起來，也只有5,900億。保險業目前實際投資在公共建設部分的金額，不管是以什麼樣的形式，對照我們的資金規模實在是九牛之一毛、杯水車薪。我想請教主委，我看到你們對於這個條文還是持反對意見，可是如何把壽險業的資金、保險業的資金導向公共建設？看起來顯然它的空間非常、非常、非常、非常──我可以把它乘以10倍、乘以100倍，非常之多！所以是過去沒有做嗎？還是到底出現什麼樣的問題？為什麼保險業資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實今天的報告點出兩個重點，第一個重點是保險資金的運用，不是錢投到哪裡就叫運用，它的年期跟收益率要跟它的負債面、保單匹配，這部分先要確定，這個標的有沒有辦法匹配、期限夠不夠長；第二個，有沒有做努力？我們在第8頁、第9頁列了很多我們努力的地方，提高它的控制比例、降低它的風險係數，所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源，然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以你講到一個重點，沒有案源就無法作為它的投資標的。時間暫停一下，我請一下財政部部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：剛剛主委認為有一個重點，第一個是有沒有投資的時間，因為保險業都是長期資金，長期資金也要做長期投資，還有基本上它有沒有穩健的收益，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：目前案源不足，所以我們如何增加案源而且可以符合我們的政策目標？我忘了在幾個禮拜前，我們財委會有一個專案報告，當時內政部花敬群次長提到就是要把資金導入社會住宅，可以討論發行綠色債券，部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論。部長，這就是剛才講的，我們為什麼沒辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設、案源不足？你們所講的社宅，也就是提供給社宅資金的綠色債券，你們現在到底進度為何？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，就我們來說，公共建設加速建設並提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的，透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該速度會加快，我們也很希望保險業的資金能進入到公共建設，所以我們促參司針對促參法的修正，第一個，我們擴大公共建設的範圍；第二個部分，我們對於促參的模式，其中一項我們做了有償PPP。也就是說，因為保險業的資金要進來，第一個要穩固，而且流動性要夠，有些自償性不足的公共建設，我們可以透過民間資金先進來B，也就是興建，然後營運，那政府呢？你的公共服務提供得好，由政府出錢來買公共服務，讓它有一個穩定的資金收入。第三個，我們每年都會辦招商大會，我們今年辦在7月，這就是釋出案源的方式。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你不承認案源不足嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：案源的部分，我們今年7月、每年都會辦公共建設招商，剛剛也提到，當然這個公共建設的年期跟收入都要跟它的保單相合。"],["王委員鴻薇：其實這個事情是一個很大的事情。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：老實講，我覺得現在很多公共建設的自償率不足，所以沒辦法成為案源，這是一個很大的問題，現在很多公共建設的自償率根本不足嘛！我曾經提過，像在前瞻建設裡面做屏東棒球場，自償率極低無比，低到100年之後才能回收，它就沒辦法成為一個穩定的案源。我現在要問你的是在前幾個禮拜也有講到的，比如興建社會住宅，我認為興建社會住宅可以導入保險業資金，它有自償性，而這個綠色債券也許是因為520馬上就要到了，你留任，現在的內政部長不留任、金管會主委不留任，也許你們在這時候也沒辦法談，所以我想請問一下，針對社會住宅的綠色債券，你留任會推動嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，社會住宅所發行的公債部分，因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例，還有證券交易法規的適法性，這部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這個政策還是會繼續執行？至少在你……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們會去做……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為我說內政部長是不是要下臺、花敬群也不一定留下來啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：不管如何，我覺得這部分該做的工作還是要做，都有延續性，要研議的，我們也會持續研議。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，因為時間的關係，剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅，你們的理由是說娛樂稅是地方的稅源，對地方很重要，對鄉鎮也很重要，其實我有個具體建議，也許你們去問問這些地方政府，搞不好他們認為不重要啊！只有你們一直覺得，搞不好對他們來講，事實上是可以的，只要能促進地方產業的活動，它可能帶來更多商機、可能收入更多，所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府，否則只有中央講重要、重要，這個錢收回來也不是中央在用，是地方在用，可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要。","時間暫停，部長可以先請回，主委留下來。我要繼續談剛剛講的保險法，另外一個部分包含我還有其他委員提到的保險法第一百七十七條修正，剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講，這在過去其實討論非常非常多，也都有跨黨派的委員提出來。對金管會來講，你們堅持金管會管的是保險業、管的是保險業對投資人、保險業對消費者，但是對於員工的部分，你推說這是勞動部的事情、這是勞資雙方的事情，金管會是不用管的，可是問題是我剛剛講了，保險業務員的管理規則是你們在定，而且我們長期看到保險業為了追求利潤，確實非常壓縮保險業務員的合理環境，包含明明應該是僱傭，但事實上是用承攬的方式，然後用僱用部分工時，還規定一個禮拜必須一天進來幾個小時，一、兩個小時就用這種部分工時的方式，或者這些契約可以變來變去。我認為如果沒有穩定的勞資關係、如果保險業務員長期在不公平的勞務契約下進行，那當然很難！你看，也許大家就怪到保險業務員，為了要佣金也好，或者要業績也好，就出現反過來傷害投資人、傷害消費者的這些事件，所以我們要求就是由金管會、主管機關會同勞動部來定之，這部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委、金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個議題很久了，其實我們也跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些歧異，也有一些進展，包括有關賞罰的問題，也建立雙層的督導機制，我們有在努力，但是這裡面真的牽涉到……"],["王委員鴻薇：那顯然努力不夠嘛！為什麼這麼多年他們都一直在爭取，希望我們的金管會、主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神，而你們卻不願意。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們一直很關心業務員，是真的。因為他有在招攬上的行為，我們必須要特別注意。"],["王委員鴻薇：我認為我們的主管機關不能繼續迴避應該負的責任，以上，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接著請黃珊珊委員。12時可以開放用食。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-10","speakers":["羅明才","王世堅","徐富癸","王鴻薇","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","李彥秀","顏寬恒","賴惠員","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：(一)本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19\n人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等 4案、(二)本院委\n員黃捷等19 人、委員羅明才等16 人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等 2 案；二、審查「保險法」 4 案：\n(一)本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員\n蔡易餘等 19 人、委員王鴻薇等 16 人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等 2 案；\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案","agenda_id":"1133201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151562","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151562","tool":"pyannote","id":"151562-pyannote"},"job_id":"y3Bs5B4mRjqgw9VV","queued_at":"2024-05-31 19:57:13","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 19:57:13","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151562"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:57:14","msg":"downloading 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00:00:30,280\n主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也\n\n3\n00:00:31,341 --> 00:00:56,524\n寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高\n\n4\n00:00:57,245 --> 00:01:14,723\n那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足\n\n5\n00:01:15,724 --> 00:01:43,243\n但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在\n\n6\n00:01:44,224 --> 00:01:44,704\n公共及社會福利事業之投資金額\n\n7\n00:02:04,603 --> 00:02:22,541\n還有包含加計以什麼不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額夯不啷當全部加起來我剛以上所唸全部加起來也只有5900億\n\n8\n00:02:25,177 --> 00:02:33,487\n所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式\n\n9\n00:02:35,053 --> 00:03:03,347\n對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍\n\n10\n00:03:04,688 --> 00:03:17,083\n非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?\n\n11\n00:03:17,984 --> 00:03:36,337\n其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就是要運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標題有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力\n\n12\n00:03:37,057 --> 00:04:00,752\n我們在第八、第九也列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長\n\n13\n00:04:06,656 --> 00:04:27,243\n委員好,剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益嘛對不對所以案源不足那所以\n\n14\n00:04:28,363 --> 00:04:46,225\n我們如何增加這個案源而且可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們財委會專案報告當時花俊勤次長內政花俊勤次長\n\n15\n00:04:46,846 --> 00:04:59,319\n他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長\n\n16\n00:05:03,503 --> 00:05:21,517\n這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何\n\n17\n00:05:22,758 --> 00:05:44,704\n跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢\n\n18\n00:05:47,325 --> 00:05:47,906\n委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n19\n00:06:10,026 --> 00:06:10,346\n中共共共建設自償力不足啦!\n\n20\n00:06:38,380 --> 00:06:50,246\n所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的\n\n21\n00:07:04,392 --> 00:07:31,943\n就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎\n\n22\n00:07:33,870 --> 00:08:02,009\n呃跟委員報告社會住宅這個呃你所謂發行公債這個部分齁那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論是所以所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊呃我不管我覺得這個部分呢該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔\n\n23\n00:08:02,489 --> 00:08:04,290\n因為時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要也就是鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府\n\n24\n00:08:19,798 --> 00:08:45,431\n搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以啊只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦\n\n25\n00:08:46,491 --> 00:08:52,226\n好那時間暫停部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來\n\n26\n00:08:53,780 --> 00:09:18,468\n好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來\n\n27\n00:09:19,548 --> 00:09:42,319\n那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險\n\n28\n00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:47,901\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n29\n00:10:06,331 --> 00:10:28,833\n他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後還規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊\n\n30\n00:10:30,074 --> 00:10:50,783\n如果沒有穩定的勞資關係,如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的,那當然很難,你看很多就是也許大家說就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好,或者要他的業績也好,就出現了\n\n31\n00:10:51,903 --> 00:11:15,032\n反過來傷害投資人傷害這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外\n\n32\n00:11:17,849 --> 00:11:41,628\n這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種督導的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們就一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意\n\n33\n00:11:44,895 --> 00:11:59,569\n我們一直很關心業務員是真的包括他對因為他只在招攬上的行為我們必須要特別去注意我認為啦我認為我們的主管機關不能夠繼續去迴避你們應該負的責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n731\t8368\t請黃主委市委好\n9279\t30280\t主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也\n31341\t56524\t寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高\n57245\t74723\t那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足\n75724\t103243\t但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在\n104224\t104704\t公共及社會福利事業之投資金額\n124603\t142541\t還有包含加計以什麼不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額夯不啷當全部加起來我剛以上所唸全部加起來也只有5900億\n145177\t153487\t所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式\n155053\t183347\t對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍\n184688\t197083\t非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?\n197984\t216337\t其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就是要運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標題有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力\n217057\t240752\t我們在第八、第九也列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好 所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長\n246656\t267243\t委員好,剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益嘛對不對所以案源不足那所以\n268363\t286225\t我們如何增加這個案源而且可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們財委會專案報告當時花俊勤次長內政花俊勤次長\n286846\t299319\t他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長\n303503\t321517\t這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何\n322758\t344704\t跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢\n347325\t347906\t委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n370026\t370346\t中共共共建設自償力不足啦!\n398380\t410246\t所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的\n424392\t451943\t就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎\n453870\t482009\t呃跟委員報告社會住宅這個呃你所謂發行公債這個部分齁那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論是所以所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊呃我不管我覺得這個部分呢該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔\n482489\t484290\t因為時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要也就是鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府\n499798\t525431\t搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以啊只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦\n526491\t532226\t好 那時間暫停 部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來\n533780\t558468\t好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來\n559548\t582319\t那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險\n586440\t587901\t議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n606331\t628833\t他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後還規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊\n630074\t650783\t如果沒有穩定的勞資關係,如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的,那當然很難,你看很多就是也許大家說就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好,或者要他的業績也好,就出現了\n651903\t675032\t反過來傷害投資人傷害這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外\n677849\t701628\t這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種督導的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們就一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意\n704895\t719569\t我們一直很關心業務員是真的包括他對因為他只在招攬上的行為我們必須要特別去注意我認為啦我認為我們的主管機關不能夠繼續去迴避你們應該負的責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時\n","txt":"請黃主委市委好\n主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也\n寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高\n那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足\n但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在\n公共及社會福利事業之投資金額\n還有包含加計以什麼不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額夯不啷當全部加起來我剛以上所唸全部加起來也只有5900億\n所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式\n對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍\n非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?\n其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就是要運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標題有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力\n我們在第八、第九也列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好 所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長\n委員好,剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益嘛對不對所以案源不足那所以\n我們如何增加這個案源而且可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們財委會專案報告當時花俊勤次長內政花俊勤次長\n他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長\n這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何\n跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢\n委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n中共共共建設自償力不足啦!\n所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的\n就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎\n呃跟委員報告社會住宅這個呃你所謂發行公債這個部分齁那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論是所以所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊呃我不管我覺得這個部分呢該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔\n因為時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要也就是鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府\n搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以啊只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦\n好 那時間暫停 部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來\n好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來\n那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後還規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊\n如果沒有穩定的勞資關係,如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的,那當然很難,你看很多就是也許大家說就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好,或者要他的業績也好,就出現了\n反過來傷害投資人傷害這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外\n這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種督導的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們就一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意\n我們一直很關心業務員是真的包括他對因為他只在招攬上的行為我們必須要特別去注意我認為啦我認為我們的主管機關不能夠繼續去迴避你們應該負的責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.731 --> 00:08.368\n請黃主委市委好\n\n00:09.279 --> 00:30.280\n主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也\n\n00:31.341 --> 00:56.524\n寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高\n\n00:57.245 --> 01:14.723\n那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足\n\n01:15.724 --> 01:43.243\n但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在\n\n01:44.224 --> 01:44.704\n公共及社會福利事業之投資金額\n\n02:04.603 --> 02:22.541\n還有包含加計以什麼不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額夯不啷當全部加起來我剛以上所唸全部加起來也只有5900億\n\n02:25.177 --> 02:33.487\n所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式\n\n02:35.053 --> 03:03.347\n對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍\n\n03:04.688 --> 03:17.083\n非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?\n\n03:17.984 --> 03:36.337\n其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就是要運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標題有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力\n\n03:37.057 --> 04:00.752\n我們在第八、第九也列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長\n\n04:06.656 --> 04:27.243\n委員好,剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益嘛對不對所以案源不足那所以\n\n04:28.363 --> 04:46.225\n我們如何增加這個案源而且可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們財委會專案報告當時花俊勤次長內政花俊勤次長\n\n04:46.846 --> 04:59.319\n他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長\n\n05:03.503 --> 05:21.517\n這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何\n\n05:22.758 --> 05:44.704\n跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢\n\n05:47.325 --> 05:47.906\n委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n06:10.026 --> 06:10.346\n中共共共建設自償力不足啦!\n\n06:38.380 --> 06:50.246\n所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的\n\n07:04.392 --> 07:31.943\n就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎\n\n07:33.870 --> 08:02.009\n呃跟委員報告社會住宅這個呃你所謂發行公債這個部分齁那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論是所以所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊呃我不管我覺得這個部分呢該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔\n\n08:02.489 --> 08:04.290\n因為時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要也就是鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府\n\n08:19.798 --> 08:45.431\n搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以啊只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦\n\n08:46.491 --> 08:52.226\n好那時間暫停部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來\n\n08:53.780 --> 09:18.468\n好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來\n\n09:19.548 --> 09:42.319\n那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險\n\n09:46.440 --> 09:47.901\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n10:06.331 --> 10:28.833\n他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後還規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊\n\n10:30.074 --> 10:50.783\n如果沒有穩定的勞資關係,如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的,那當然很難,你看很多就是也許大家說就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好,或者要他的業績也好,就出現了\n\n10:51.903 --> 11:15.032\n反過來傷害投資人傷害這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外\n\n11:17.849 --> 11:41.628\n這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種督導的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們就一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意\n\n11:44.895 --> 11:59.569\n我們一直很關心業務員是真的包括他對因為他只在招攬上的行為我們必須要特別去注意我認為啦我認為我們的主管機關不能夠繼續去迴避你們應該負的責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.731,"end":8.368,"text":"請黃主委市委好"},{"start":9.279,"end":30.28,"text":"主委今天針對這個保險法但是有兩個部分的修正其中一個就是有關於這個對保險業對國外投資的這個上限他是不是有下降的空間那麼我也看到你們的報告裡面呢也"},{"start":31.341,"end":56.524,"text":"寫了洋洋灑灑就是包含我們現在受險業的投資的標的還有在整個的歷史上過去為什麼逐步的去調高他對這個海外投資的上限不過我覺得我們今天討論這個問題其實主要有一個重點就是我們保險業的資金其實非常非常的多非常高"},{"start":57.245,"end":74.723,"text":"那當然在尤其前一陣子ETF發行的時候雖然現在很多他們都淨值事上是虧損的那可是那個時候大家去封ETF也顯示出國內的投資的管道跟工具不足"},{"start":75.724,"end":103.243,"text":"但是我們如何去導引這樣子的一個公共性的資金就是保險業的資金能夠導向公共建設其實是在這一次條文修正它的一個希望的一個目標但是我也從你們的報告看到我覺得這個金額事實上讓我也覺得非常訝異在你們的報告裡面去提到我們受險業的資金在"},{"start":104.224,"end":104.704,"text":"公共及社會福利事業之投資金額"},{"start":124.603,"end":142.541,"text":"還有包含加計以什麼不動場、地上權形式辦理的公共投資金額以及以有價證券方式投資公共建設的金額夯不啷當全部加起來我剛以上所唸全部加起來也只有5900億"},{"start":145.177,"end":153.487,"text":"所以如果對照我們保險業目前實際去投資在公共建設不管他用什麼樣的形式"},{"start":155.053,"end":183.347,"text":"對照我們的資金的規模實在是九牛之一毛杯水車薪所以我想請教主委我看到你們對於這個條文你們還是持反對意見可是如何把受險業的資金保險業的資金導向公共建設顯然看起來它的空間非常非常非常非常我可以把它乘以10倍乘以100倍"},{"start":184.688,"end":197.083,"text":"非常之多。所以是過去沒有做嗎?還是到底出現什麼樣問題?為什麼保險院資金就是沒有辦法導入公共建設呢?"},{"start":197.984,"end":216.337,"text":"其實今天報告點了兩個重點第一個重點保險資金的運用不是錢投到哪裡就是要運用它的年期跟它的收益率要跟它的負債面保單要匹配那這部分先要確定這個標題有沒有辦法匹配期限夠不夠長第二個有沒有做努力"},{"start":217.057,"end":240.752,"text":"我們在第八、第九也列了很多我們努力的地方提高它的控制的比例降低它的風險係數所以重點是有沒有足夠的案源然後這個案源提供的報酬率是不是符合保險業的期待好 所以你講到一個重點沒有案源它就無法去作為它的投資標的時間暫停一下我請一下我們的財政部部長請莊部長"},{"start":246.656,"end":267.243,"text":"委員好,剛剛主委認為他有一個重點是有沒有第一個他有這個投資的這個時間因為保險業都是長期資金他長期資金他也要做長期投資還有他基本上他有沒有穩健的收益嘛對不對所以案源不足那所以"},{"start":268.363,"end":286.225,"text":"我們如何增加這個案源而且可以符合我們的一個政策的目標我記得在前我忘了幾個禮拜前我們這邊也有一個專案報告我們財委會專案報告當時花俊勤次長內政花俊勤次長"},{"start":286.846,"end":299.319,"text":"他提到了就是要把資金導入社宅社會住宅那麼呢可以討論發行綠色債券那麼部長也說這個可以做跨部會討論那麼部長"},{"start":303.503,"end":321.517,"text":"這就是剛才講的我們為什麼沒有辦法把保險業資金導入公共建設岸源不足那麼你們所講的社宅就是提供給社宅資金的綠色災艦你們現在到底進度為何"},{"start":322.758,"end":344.704,"text":"跟委員報告就我們來說公共建設加速的建設然後提供好的公共服務是大家所期待的那麼透過民間的資金來做這個建設應該的速度會加快所以我們也很希望保險業的資金能夠進入到公共建設所以我們在促參司的部分促參法的修正第一個我們擴大公共建設的一個範圍第二個部分呢"},{"start":347.325,"end":347.906,"text":"委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":370.026,"end":370.346,"text":"中共共共建設自償力不足啦!"},{"start":398.38,"end":410.246,"text":"所以沒有辦法成為案員不過這個是一個很大的問題我們現在很多自產率根本不足嘛我曾經提過像我們前瞻建設你前瞻建設裡面像我們做這個屏東棒球場那自產率極低無比低到100年之後才能夠回收它就沒有辦法成為一個穩定的案員但是我現在要問你的是這個是在前禮拜有講到的"},{"start":424.392,"end":451.943,"text":"就是比如說你新建社會住宅我認為新建社會住宅是可以導入保險業資金的它有自償性啊那麼這個綠色債券你們也許因為現在520馬上就到你留任現在內政部長不留任今晚會主委不留任也許你們這個時候也沒有辦法談所以我想請問一下這個講的比如說像以針對社會住宅的綠色債券你留任嘛你會推動嗎"},{"start":453.87,"end":482.009,"text":"呃跟委員報告社會住宅這個呃你所謂發行公債這個部分齁那因為涉及到住都中心的設置條例還有證券交易法規的一個釋法性這個部分我們會跟內政部再來做討論是所以所以這個政策還是會繼續執行至少在於你因為我說內政部長4次要下台啦花慶群也不一定留下來啊呃我不管我覺得這個部分呢該做的工作還是要做都有延續性的那要研議的我們也持續會研議另外喔"},{"start":482.489,"end":484.29,"text":"因為時間關係剛才有很多委員談到娛樂稅當然你們的理由就是說因為娛樂稅是地方的稅源那地方對地方很重要也就是鄉鎮也很重要其實我有個具體建議也許你們去問問地方的這些政府"},{"start":499.798,"end":525.431,"text":"搞不好他們認為不重要啊只有你們在一直覺得搞不好他們認為說對他們來講事實上是可以啊只要能夠促進地方的這些產業的活動他可能帶來的商機更多他可能收入更多所以也許你們可以去問問地方政府否則只有你中央講重要重要這個錢收回來也不是你中央在用是地方在用可能搞不好地方政府真的覺得沒有那麼重要啦"},{"start":526.491,"end":532.226,"text":"好 那時間暫停 部長可以先請回那個主委先留下來"},{"start":533.78,"end":558.468,"text":"好,我要繼續談的就是剛講保險法另外的一個部分就是呢包含我還有其他的委員提到的保險法第177條的修正那剛才我在做提案說明的時候也有講我覺得這個過去其實討論的非常非常多也都有跨黨派的委員提出來"},{"start":559.548,"end":582.319,"text":"那麼對我們今晚會來講堅持的是今晚會管的是保險業管的是保險業對投資人保險業對消費者但是呢你覺得對員工的部分你把他推向說這個就是勞動部的事情這個是勞資雙方的事情今晚會是不用管的可是問題是我剛講保險"},{"start":586.44,"end":587.901,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":606.331,"end":628.833,"text":"他明明應該是僱傭但是呢他事實上是用承攬的方式然後呢用什麼用部分工時然後還規定說你一個禮拜你必須一天你必須進來幾個小時一兩個小時給你這種部分工時的方式或者這些契約可以變來變去所以我認為啊"},{"start":630.074,"end":650.783,"text":"如果沒有穩定的勞資關係,如果保險業務員是長期在不公平的勞務契約下在進行的,那當然很難,你看很多就是也許大家說就怪到保險業務員為了要他的這個佣金也好,或者要他的業績也好,就出現了"},{"start":651.903,"end":675.032,"text":"反過來傷害投資人傷害這些消費者的這些事件所以在金管會我們的其實我們的調整也是要求就是由我們的金管會主管機關會同勞動部來定之這個部分我真的不曉得為什麼主委金管會永遠要拒人於千里之外"},{"start":677.849,"end":701.628,"text":"這個議題很久了而且其實我們也在跟勞動部一起去協調兩個工會的一些起義也有一些進展包括那個有關賞罰的問題也建立了雙層的這種督導的機制我們有在努力了但是這裡面真的牽涉到那顯然努力不夠嘛為什麼他們這麼多年他們就一直在爭取希望我們的金管會希望我們主管機關給這些業務員一點點關愛的眼神而你們卻不願意"},{"start":704.895,"end":719.569,"text":"我們一直很關心業務員是真的包括他對因為他只在招攬上的行為我們必須要特別去注意我認為啦我認為我們的主管機關不能夠繼續去迴避你們應該負的責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝接著請黃珊珊黃委員12點可以開放用時"}]}}}}