{"id":151569,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151569","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c33675f224c57d8283bccff82116bdf94ca8dcb4691eb09bf4e21ff4dcd6a2cddace5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"12:04:15 - 12:11:17","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、交通部、經濟部、內政部警政署就「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":422,"end_time":"2024-04-22T12:11:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T12:04:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1150,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（12時4分）先謝謝召委跟各位委員，我們是不是先請薛部長？"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：何委員好。"],["何委員欣純：部長好，其實我聽了一個早上，很多委員都有提到噪音是公害，而且是大家很痛惡的。其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法、執法的專案，譬如說桃園有桃園的；在臺中，我記得有一個靜城專案，但是大家都認為專案式的執法效率不彰，為什麼？因為專案式的執法都是在特定的時間、特定的區域，所以才有部長今天來報告，談到我們要從源頭來管理，到後來我們的改管要登錄，如果沒有登錄要予以開罰，我們要做全套的一個管制，對不對？部長。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["何委員欣純：你認為如果我們有全套的管制之後，地方的靜城專案，或者是桃園的靜桃專案，你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍？"],["薛部長富盛：當然會產生一些效果，但是還沒有達到……"],["何委員欣純：我要聽的是「但是」。"],["薛部長富盛：但是還沒有辦法達到理想的狀況，原因是用人工跟跨部會的聯合稽查，這種畢竟是有時間性，剛剛何委員有提到。"],["何委員欣純：是嘛！部長，我現在就要講，如果要系統性來澈底解決噪音這樣子的問題，我們有沒有系統性的策略？而不是只有中央、地方的聯合稽查，在特定的區域、特定的地點、特定的時間。"],["薛部長富盛：所以我們接下來就是科技的執法。"],["何委員欣純：可是科技的執法也是在固定點啊！你的移動點要如何移動，當然一定是有你們的一個策略，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["何委員欣純：所以除了增加設備之外，我們的策略上，跨部會是怎麼樣來執行？"],["薛部長富盛：我想基本上我們環境部的業務也還滿清楚的，就是對噪音的管制……"],["何委員欣純：我知道啊！你們環境部就對噪音的管制，我現在講的是跨部會，今天這個專案報告裡面，你們來了環境部、警政署、經濟部，這就是跨部會嘛！你現在要系統性地納管也是跨部會嘛！所以我才問未來怎麼執行到位？"],["薛部長富盛：未來的執行面當然就是環境部……"],["何委員欣純：我們現在擔心的是執行面，跨部會都協調不好的話，就更不要課責地方政府來跟中央配合。"],["薛部長富盛：執行面的話，當然就是我們環境部針對噪音，我想交通部或者警政署的這一塊，用他們的……"],["何委員欣純：可是現在聽起來你們是各自為政啊！"],["薛部長富盛：對，所以這一塊我希望能夠有一個平台……"],["何委員欣純：你說要跟未來的彭部長無縫接軌，這整套的管理系統要怎麼樣無縫接軌？其他部會換了新的首長，要怎麼樣無縫接軌？我覺得這才是民眾所關心的。"],["薛部長富盛：跟何委員報告，事實上環境部也有成功的案例，譬如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤污染，我們有一個檢警環的稽核制度。"],["何委員欣純：我知道啊！就是我剛剛說的稽核專案，但稽核就是特定的時間、特定的地點、特定的區域，我只是希望，既然我們有心要做管理，就應該把它想清楚，如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式，而是有系統性去防範這些噪音公害的產生。"],["薛部長富盛：好，認同。"],["何委員欣純：我只問你一個，譬如說，剛剛有其他委員講到，現在我們要源頭管制，改管要登錄，你給我的報告是說，從1月1號執行到4月15號，來申請登錄的總共有1萬4,971件，部長，你承不承認會有黑數？"],["薛部長富盛：這個黑數當然是難免的。"],["何委員欣純：一定有黑數，那黑數你怎麼去稽查得知呢？只能靠事後的、剛剛講的專案稽查嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我想就是從源頭，就是看看這些機車行，或者販售……"],["何委員欣純：所以我就點出這一點，你的源頭管理中，你是被動地等人家來登錄，沒有來登錄的黑數，你要做什麼樣的管理，這個才是問題嘛！合法的我們都可以查得到；不合法的，因為沒有登記，你就查不到，不是嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["何委員欣純：我們現在最需要去查的是什麼？那些非法的黑數，那才是造成公害最主要之原因，部長，該怎麼辦？"],["薛部長富盛：所以我們未來就加強這一塊，特別是不要再用自願的。"],["何委員欣純：你要怎麼加強啊？我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強。"],["薛部長富盛：我們請張司長來回答好了。"],["何委員欣純：好，誰可以來回答？"],["張司長順欽：我想最主要還是後端的稽查，包括聲音照相還有聯合稽查，這個都要一起搭配上來。"],["何委員欣純：從源頭管理到後端的稽查，這中間沒有其他積極的行政作為嗎？"],["張司長順欽：另外就是改裝的場所，我們要去看看……"],["何委員欣純：對，所以我說要跨部會，第一個就是改裝場所；再來，改裝場所如果沒登記呢？現在也看到有很多個人工作室在改裝，這個查得到嗎？這個查不到啊！"],["薛部長富盛：挑戰度很高。"],["何委員欣純：這就是所謂的黑數，對不對？是不是？這又該哪一個部會管？經濟部還是交通部？"],["薛部長富盛：是不是經濟部？也就是說到業者、到機車行去改裝……"],["何委員欣純：我現在講的不只是機車行……"],["薛部長富盛：個人？"],["何委員欣純：現在已經有新興的行業叫個人工作室。個人工作室誰管？我現在是點出實務面的問題，我們在基層都知道有產業鏈，你們公務單位、行政單位如果不瞭解實務面，怎麼把這套納管制度做好、做到位，以澈底防制噪音？"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝何委員提供很好的意見，這個我們的確比較不瞭解。"],["何委員欣純：請再認真、深入地去跟跨部會的相關部門爬梳現在實務面上到底有哪些問題必須要去面對與解決，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝何委員。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員的發言。","現在處理臨時提案，總共有6案，請一併宣讀。","臨時提案","一、","案由：","有鑑於我國在鉅量紙容器生產量因未如實申報，導致逃漏處理費，讓中央政府預算作業在回收基金少徵數達數億元之多情形。爰環境部自111年8月起，辦理對民間所有新生產的紙容器皆須印上「溯源QR Code」措施，藉此盼讓民眾及環保稽查業務人員透過掃描QR Code後連結到資訊揭露頁面，進而得知手上的紙杯、紙餐盒是否來自合法業者，並進一步對逃漏的黑數有效防堵，更維護回收基金的運作機制及環境保護目標。然而，查在當前利用網路連線至各類紙容器所印製之官方溯源QR Code，卻皆僅見單薄之「本紙餐具來自向環境部資源循環數登記列管的業者」內容，而有欠相關詳實之產製資訊，更衍生不肖非法產製業者可憑盜製QR碼再偽裝成合法容器之政策疑慮，爰此特決議要求環境部最速啟動措施改善作業，並於一個月內向本委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　廖偉翔","二、","地方政府積極查處噪音管制，全面管制噪音車，維護環境安寧，保障民眾居住生活品質，實應嘉許。","據日前媒體報導，地方政府援引「噪音管制法第19條第1項各級主管機關得指派人員並提示有關執行職務上證明文件或顯示足資辨別之標誌，進入發生噪音或有事實足認有發生噪音之虞之公、私場所檢查或鑑定噪音狀況。」，用於機車行中正進行維修之車輛，認定其改裝或有發生噪音之虞，拍照存證並要求車主前去驗車，引發軒然大波。","不論噪音場所與機動車輛噪音檢驗相關規範有所不同，對正在進行維修之車輛拍照存證並要求驗車，恐有過度解讀法令、擴張行政權之嫌，地方政府事後將事件解釋為，查察合法營業登記。","然，一般民眾難以全面瞭解管制噪音法規，地方政府若以稽查違規車輛之名，行侵害民眾權益之實，如此反而使政府失去威信，遭受民眾質疑，導致政策無法完整被推行。","爰要求，環境部就地方政府噪音管制作為進行暸解與檢討相關作為，並於一個月內將檢討報告送本院社會福利與衛生環境委員會。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　林月琴","三、","為從源頭解決機車改裝排氣管產生噪音問題，行政院邀集環境部與交通部召開協調會，要求共同推動改裝排氣管認證制度，由環境部訂定「機動車輛替換用消音系統認證管理規範」，交通部修訂「道路交通安全規則」要求使用中車輛如有變更排氣管之情形，應經環境部噪音檢測合格後至監理單位辦理變更登記，以達到源頭管理目的。","經查，交通部對汽機車排氣管改裝的規定之附件15有4點規定，其中第1點至第3點對於相關改裝，須經交通部委託之車輛專業技術研究機構審驗合格，須原車輛製造廠、車輛代理商或車輛修理業出具改裝證明，或須經合法業者辦理等嚴格的規定。","然，車輛製造廠、車輛代理商或車輛修理業均為經濟部所轄，為將噪音源頭規範應給予妥適管理，爰此提案，要求環境部、交通部、警政署，經濟部於一個月內，就推動改裝排氣管認證制度，邀請相關機關及地方政府，共同研討並宣達相關措施，以達廣徵民眾及企業反映之效，並供作政策調適。","提案人：黃秀芳　　王正旭　　林月琴　　","四、","以機車代步係我國長年實行之生活習慣及交通文化，其中燃油機車之溫室氣體排放量及空氣污染皆高於電動機車。為有效減少溫室氣體排放、提高國人選購電動機車誘因，行政院環保署於民國109年開始實施機車汰舊換新補助，然而燃油機車數量仍逐年上升，112年甚至已高達13,841,417部。前開數據顯示汰舊換新補助政策有其缺失，惟環境部除加碼補貼之外，至今並無修正原辦法或提出策進方針。","為督促行政部門實際落實減少溫室氣體排放之政策、接軌國際目標，爰要求環境部檢討機車汰舊換新補助之缺失，具體說明政策修正方向及改善方案，並於一個月內提出書面報告予社會福利及衛生環境委員會。","提案人：王育敏　　","連署人：盧縣一　　蘇清泉　　","五、","環境噪音除了會損害聽力，還會導致憂鬱焦慮、睡眠障礙、注意力下降，提高內分泌系統及心血管疾病的發生率，甚至因聽覺刺激降低而增加罹患失智症的風險，爰要求環境部於半年內，針對環境噪音對人們生活之影響，與衛福部進行相關研究，制定相關場域或空間噪音防制準則與規範，並將書面報告送社福及衛環委員會。","提案人：蘇清泉　　王育敏　　盧縣一","六、","案由：有鑒於行政院經濟部依電價費率審議會決議電價4月起平均調漲11%，對民眾健康息息相關的救命的醫院，24小時搶救人命的機構，醫療儀器都需不斷電狀態，加上醫院感染控制及室內溫度維持等措施，是用電量高的場所。根據中華民國區域醫院協會實際調查，以區域醫院等級醫院每月平均用電度數在60萬度到130萬度，平均每月用電100萬度，漲價後除了原本電費負擔外，額外年度增加電費500萬，現階段總額環境下，醫院毛利僅有1-2%，試問哪一家醫院可以負擔得起？醫院在生死存亡之際，當電價海嘯襲來，將瀕臨熄燈滅頂、被迫縮減醫療提供。區域醫院及醫學中心更是醫療中重度責任中心，必須負擔急、重、難的照護責任，衛生福利部及經濟部提供地區醫院補貼，更應考量區域醫院及醫學中心肩負社會責任的特殊性，爰要求全國醫院比照現行地區醫院給予電價補貼。","提案人：蘇清泉　　陳菁徽　　盧縣一"],["主席：在這邊作以下宣告，等一下如果有文字修正，請將文字修正版送主席台確定。","我們先從第6案開始，行政單位有沒有意見？"],["薛部長富盛：電費會不會是經濟部的業務？"],["王委員正旭：主席，針對第6案最後一句，希望能將「要求」改為「研議」，因為目前衛福部沒有派員在現場，如果能夠做這樣的修正的話，對他們來講也能有更好的因應，以上。"],["主席：經濟部？可以嗎？"],["在場人員：經濟部說明，就地區醫院部分，主要是針對地區醫院非核心地區，當時在跟衛福部商量時是針對非核心地區且經營比較困難的，如果要擴及全國，可能要由經濟部研議。但即使研議電價補貼，還是由衛福部來處理會比較妥適，因為後續要編入主管機關的預算裡。"],["主席：王委員，這裡就改為「研議」好不好？"],["在場人員：因為後續是由目的事業主管機關編入預算處理。"],["王委員正旭：就是把「要求」改為「研議」，謝謝。"],["在場人員：因為這是長久的規劃，交給主管機關研議比較妥適。"],["主席：這只是研議，所以先請經濟部研議。王委員，禮拜三時再針對這案……因為衛福部沒有來。"],["王委員正旭：對，衛福部沒有在現場，如果有需要的話，禮拜三可以再提出來。"],["主席：我們就先照委員所提修正文字通過，好不好？第6案就照文字修正通過。","回到第1案，行政單位有沒有意見？"],["許副署長智倫：謝謝主席，循環署報告，這一案要防堵紙餐具QR Code的改善措施，我們會馬上來進行。由於家數與資料眾多，且涉及系統修改等等，所以最後一行是不是容許我們建議，將「一個月內向本委員會提交書面報告」修正成「兩個月」？"],["陳委員菁徽：可以。"],["許副署長智倫：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，照文字修正通過。","第2案。"],["張司長順欽：報告，第2案沒有問題，遵辦、照辦。"],["主席：好。第3案。"],["張司長順欽：沒有問題。"],["主席：沒有問題？好。第4案。"],["張司長順欽：第4案沒有問題。"],["主席：也沒有問題？好，照案通過。","第5案。"],["張司長順欽：第5案倒數第二行建議「與衛福部……」後面改成「共同蒐集國際噪音與健康研究發展及管制趨勢、最新動態，並將書面報告送社福及衛環委員會」，就是把「進行研究……」後面的文字刪掉。"],["主席：提案委員有沒有意見？可以？照文字修正通過，臨時提案全部處理完畢。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","王育敏","盧縣一","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","李坤城","林德福","林淑芬","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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378.466, \"end\": 378.847, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 378.847, \"end\": 378.867, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 397.17, \"end\": 397.23, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 397.23, \"end\": 397.25, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:03,920\n先謝謝趙偉跟各位委員謝謝那我們是先請薛部長請薛部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,767 --> 00:00:25,204\n部長好,其實我聽了一個早上很多委員都有提到這個噪音是公害而且是大家很痛餓的那其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法執法的專案比如說桃園有桃園的台中我記得有一個進城專案\n\n3\n00:00:30,490 --> 00:00:54,471\n但是呢大家都認為專案式的執法效力不髒為什麼因為呢專案式的執法都是在特定的時間那特定的區域那所以呢才會有今天部長您來報告我們要從源頭管理到後來我們的這個改管要登錄那如果沒有登錄要開法我們要做全套的一個管制對不對部長是\n\n4\n00:00:55,592 --> 00:01:14,605\n是,那你認為如果我們全套的管制之後呢那地方的進程專案或者是桃園的這個淨桃專案你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍當然會這個產生一些效果但是還沒有辦法達到我要聽的是但是\n\n5\n00:01:46,394 --> 00:02:01,292\n可是科技的執法也是固定點啊那你的移動點,你的移動點如何移動那當然一定是由你們的一個策略嘛對不對所以除了增加這個設備之外那我們的策略跨部會是怎麼樣的來\n\n6\n00:02:02,779 --> 00:02:02,799\n大衛\n\n7\n00:02:31,867 --> 00:02:55,807\n未來的執行面當然就是環境部我們現在擔心的是執行啊我們現在擔心的是執行面啦就是說執行面啦議員嘛跨部會都協調不好的話就更不要苛責地方政府來跟中央配合啊對那執行面的話當然就是說環境部我們針對噪音那我想交通部或者這個警政署的這一塊可是現在聽起來你們各自為政啊\n\n8\n00:02:56,327 --> 00:03:21,969\n對,所以這一塊我希望能夠有個平台所以你說跟未來的彭部長你要無縫接軌那這整套的這個管理系統那怎麼樣無縫接軌那其他部會換了新的首長怎麼樣無縫接軌我覺得這個事才是民眾所關心的事實上環境部也有成功的案例比如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤的污染我們有一個檢警環的\n\n9\n00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:25,753\n我只是希望既然我們有心要做、要管理那應該要把它想清楚如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式\n\n10\n00:03:41,670 --> 00:04:02,520\n有系統性的能夠去防範這些噪音公害的產生嘛我只問你一個嘛比如說剛剛有其他委員有講到嘛現在我們要源頭管制那改管要登錄那你給我的報告說從1月1號執行到4月15號總共來申請登錄的有14971件那部長你承不承認會不會有黑數\n\n11\n00:04:08,348 --> 00:04:19,446\n一定有黑素嘛一定有黑素嘛那黑素你怎麼去稽查得知呢只能靠事後的剛剛講的專案稽查嗎\n\n12\n00:04:22,143 --> 00:04:47,897\n我想這個從源頭嘛就是看看這些機車行啊或者說這個販售所以我就點出這一點嘛你的源頭管理你是被動的等人家來登錄啊那沒有來登錄的黑數你要做核管理這個才是問題嘛我跟你說合法的啊我們都可以查得到啦那沒合法的啊因為就沒電機在來你就查不到啦\n\n13\n00:04:49,958 --> 00:05:14,517\n我們現在最需要去查的是什麼那些非法的黑數啊那才是造成公害的最主要之原因嘛對馬部長那怎麼辦那所以這一塊我們未來就加強這一塊特別是不要再用自驗的啦我想應該...你怎麼加強啊我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強我們張市長來回答好了這個...好了誰可以來回答\n\n14\n00:05:15,376 --> 00:05:33,446\n我想最主要還是後端的那個稽查包括那個聲音照相還有那個聯合稽查這個都要一起搭配上後端的稽查那從源頭管理到後端的稽查這中間沒有其他可以有積極的行政作為嗎因為就是我們那個改裝的場所可能我們要做一些\n\n15\n00:05:35,587 --> 00:05:46,956\n去看看到底改了什麼東西對嘛所以我說跨部會嘛第一個改裝的場所嘛再來改裝的場所如果是沒有登記的咧欸我們現在也看到很多個人工作室在改裝欸啊這個查得到嗎也查不到啊這也就是所謂的黑數嘛對不對是不是那這又該哪一個部會管經濟部還是交通部是不是經濟部\n\n16\n00:06:06,988 --> 00:06:18,867\n對嘛,所以你們跨部我現在講的不只是機車行喔現在已經有新興的行業叫做個人工作室喔那個人工作室是誰管?\n\n17\n00:06:37,170 --> 00:06:37,250\n委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t3920\t先謝謝趙偉跟各位委員謝謝那我們是先請薛部長請薛部長\n11767\t25204\t部長好,其實我聽了一個早上很多委員都有提到這個噪音是公害而且是大家很痛餓的那其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法執法的專案比如說桃園有桃園的台中我記得有一個進城專案\n30490\t54471\t但是呢大家都認為專案式的執法效力不髒為什麼因為呢專案式的執法都是在特定的時間那特定的區域那所以呢才會有今天部長您來報告我們要從源頭管理到後來我們的這個改管要登錄那如果沒有登錄要開法我們要做全套的一個管制對不對部長是\n55592\t74605\t是,那你認為如果我們全套的管制之後呢那地方的進程專案或者是桃園的這個淨桃專案你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍當然會這個產生一些效果但是還沒有辦法達到我要聽的是但是\n75913\t105913\t﹗\n106394\t121292\t可是科技的執法也是固定點啊那你的移動點,你的移動點如何移動那當然一定是由你們的一個策略嘛對不對所以除了增加這個設備之外那我們的策略跨部會是怎麼樣的來\n122779\t122799\t大衛\n151867\t175807\t未來的執行面當然就是環境部我們現在擔心的是執行啊我們現在擔心的是執行面啦就是說執行面啦議員嘛跨部會都協調不好的話就更不要苛責地方政府來跟中央配合啊對那執行面的話當然就是說環境部我們針對噪音那我想交通部或者這個警政署的這一塊可是現在聽起來你們各自為政啊\n176327\t201969\t對,所以這一塊我希望能夠有個平台所以你說跟未來的彭部長你要無縫接軌那這整套的這個管理系統那怎麼樣無縫接軌那其他部會換了新的首長怎麼樣無縫接軌我覺得這個事才是民眾所關心的事實上環境部也有成功的案例比如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤的污染我們有一個檢警環的\n203030\t205753\t我只是希望既然我們有心要做、要管理那應該要把它想清楚如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式\n221670\t242520\t有系統性的能夠去防範這些噪音公害的產生嘛我只問你一個嘛比如說剛剛有其他委員有講到嘛現在我們要源頭管制那改管要登錄那你給我的報告說從1月1號執行到4月15號總共來申請登錄的有14971件那部長你承不承認會不會有黑數\n248348\t259446\t一定有黑素嘛一定有黑素嘛那黑素你怎麼去稽查得知呢只能靠事後的剛剛講的專案稽查嗎\n262143\t287897\t我想這個從源頭嘛就是看看這些機車行啊或者說這個販售所以我就點出這一點嘛你的源頭管理你是被動的等人家來登錄啊那沒有來登錄的黑數你要做核管理這個才是問題嘛我跟你說合法的啊我們都可以查得到啦那沒合法的啊因為就沒電機在來你就查不到啦\n289958\t314517\t我們現在最需要去查的是什麼那些非法的黑數啊那才是造成公害的最主要之原因嘛對馬部長那怎麼辦那所以這一塊我們未來就加強這一塊特別是不要再用自驗的啦我想應該...你怎麼加強啊我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強我們張市長來回答好了這個...好了誰可以來回答\n315376\t333446\t我想最主要還是後端的那個稽查包括那個聲音照相還有那個聯合稽查這個都要一起搭配上後端的稽查那從源頭管理到後端的稽查這中間沒有其他可以有積極的行政作為嗎因為就是我們那個改裝的場所可能我們要做一些\n335587\t346956\t去看看到底改了什麼東西對嘛所以我說跨部會嘛第一個改裝的場所嘛再來改裝的場所如果是沒有登記的咧欸我們現在也看到很多個人工作室在改裝欸啊這個查得到嗎也查不到啊這也就是所謂的黑數嘛對不對是不是那這又該哪一個部會管經濟部還是交通部是不是經濟部\n366988\t378867\t對嘛,所以你們跨部我現在講的不只是機車行喔現在已經有新興的行業叫做個人工作室喔那個人工作室是誰管?\n380111\t397090\t⋯⋯⋯\n397170\t397250\t委員發言\n","txt":"先謝謝趙偉跟各位委員謝謝那我們是先請薛部長請薛部長\n部長好,其實我聽了一個早上很多委員都有提到這個噪音是公害而且是大家很痛餓的那其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法執法的專案比如說桃園有桃園的台中我記得有一個進城專案\n但是呢大家都認為專案式的執法效力不髒為什麼因為呢專案式的執法都是在特定的時間那特定的區域那所以呢才會有今天部長您來報告我們要從源頭管理到後來我們的這個改管要登錄那如果沒有登錄要開法我們要做全套的一個管制對不對部長是\n是,那你認為如果我們全套的管制之後呢那地方的進程專案或者是桃園的這個淨桃專案你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍當然會這個產生一些效果但是還沒有辦法達到我要聽的是但是\n﹗\n可是科技的執法也是固定點啊那你的移動點,你的移動點如何移動那當然一定是由你們的一個策略嘛對不對所以除了增加這個設備之外那我們的策略跨部會是怎麼樣的來\n大衛\n未來的執行面當然就是環境部我們現在擔心的是執行啊我們現在擔心的是執行面啦就是說執行面啦議員嘛跨部會都協調不好的話就更不要苛責地方政府來跟中央配合啊對那執行面的話當然就是說環境部我們針對噪音那我想交通部或者這個警政署的這一塊可是現在聽起來你們各自為政啊\n對,所以這一塊我希望能夠有個平台所以你說跟未來的彭部長你要無縫接軌那這整套的這個管理系統那怎麼樣無縫接軌那其他部會換了新的首長怎麼樣無縫接軌我覺得這個事才是民眾所關心的事實上環境部也有成功的案例比如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤的污染我們有一個檢警環的\n我只是希望既然我們有心要做、要管理那應該要把它想清楚如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式\n有系統性的能夠去防範這些噪音公害的產生嘛我只問你一個嘛比如說剛剛有其他委員有講到嘛現在我們要源頭管制那改管要登錄那你給我的報告說從1月1號執行到4月15號總共來申請登錄的有14971件那部長你承不承認會不會有黑數\n一定有黑素嘛一定有黑素嘛那黑素你怎麼去稽查得知呢只能靠事後的剛剛講的專案稽查嗎\n我想這個從源頭嘛就是看看這些機車行啊或者說這個販售所以我就點出這一點嘛你的源頭管理你是被動的等人家來登錄啊那沒有來登錄的黑數你要做核管理這個才是問題嘛我跟你說合法的啊我們都可以查得到啦那沒合法的啊因為就沒電機在來你就查不到啦\n我們現在最需要去查的是什麼那些非法的黑數啊那才是造成公害的最主要之原因嘛對馬部長那怎麼辦那所以這一塊我們未來就加強這一塊特別是不要再用自驗的啦我想應該...你怎麼加強啊我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強我們張市長來回答好了這個...好了誰可以來回答\n我想最主要還是後端的那個稽查包括那個聲音照相還有那個聯合稽查這個都要一起搭配上後端的稽查那從源頭管理到後端的稽查這中間沒有其他可以有積極的行政作為嗎因為就是我們那個改裝的場所可能我們要做一些\n去看看到底改了什麼東西對嘛所以我說跨部會嘛第一個改裝的場所嘛再來改裝的場所如果是沒有登記的咧欸我們現在也看到很多個人工作室在改裝欸啊這個查得到嗎也查不到啊這也就是所謂的黑數嘛對不對是不是那這又該哪一個部會管經濟部還是交通部是不是經濟部\n對嘛,所以你們跨部我現在講的不只是機車行喔現在已經有新興的行業叫做個人工作室喔那個人工作室是誰管?\n⋯⋯⋯\n委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:03.920\n先謝謝趙偉跟各位委員謝謝那我們是先請薛部長請薛部長\n\n00:11.767 --> 00:25.204\n部長好,其實我聽了一個早上很多委員都有提到這個噪音是公害而且是大家很痛餓的那其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法執法的專案比如說桃園有桃園的台中我記得有一個進城專案\n\n00:30.490 --> 00:54.471\n但是呢大家都認為專案式的執法效力不髒為什麼因為呢專案式的執法都是在特定的時間那特定的區域那所以呢才會有今天部長您來報告我們要從源頭管理到後來我們的這個改管要登錄那如果沒有登錄要開法我們要做全套的一個管制對不對部長是\n\n00:55.592 --> 01:14.605\n是,那你認為如果我們全套的管制之後呢那地方的進程專案或者是桃園的這個淨桃專案你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍當然會這個產生一些效果但是還沒有辦法達到我要聽的是但是\n\n01:46.394 --> 02:01.292\n可是科技的執法也是固定點啊那你的移動點,你的移動點如何移動那當然一定是由你們的一個策略嘛對不對所以除了增加這個設備之外那我們的策略跨部會是怎麼樣的來\n\n02:02.779 --> 02:02.799\n大衛\n\n02:31.867 --> 02:55.807\n未來的執行面當然就是環境部我們現在擔心的是執行啊我們現在擔心的是執行面啦就是說執行面啦議員嘛跨部會都協調不好的話就更不要苛責地方政府來跟中央配合啊對那執行面的話當然就是說環境部我們針對噪音那我想交通部或者這個警政署的這一塊可是現在聽起來你們各自為政啊\n\n02:56.327 --> 03:21.969\n對,所以這一塊我希望能夠有個平台所以你說跟未來的彭部長你要無縫接軌那這整套的這個管理系統那怎麼樣無縫接軌那其他部會換了新的首長怎麼樣無縫接軌我覺得這個事才是民眾所關心的事實上環境部也有成功的案例比如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤的污染我們有一個檢警環的\n\n03:23.030 --> 03:25.753\n我只是希望既然我們有心要做、要管理那應該要把它想清楚如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式\n\n03:41.670 --> 04:02.520\n有系統性的能夠去防範這些噪音公害的產生嘛我只問你一個嘛比如說剛剛有其他委員有講到嘛現在我們要源頭管制那改管要登錄那你給我的報告說從1月1號執行到4月15號總共來申請登錄的有14971件那部長你承不承認會不會有黑數\n\n04:08.348 --> 04:19.446\n一定有黑素嘛一定有黑素嘛那黑素你怎麼去稽查得知呢只能靠事後的剛剛講的專案稽查嗎\n\n04:22.143 --> 04:47.897\n我想這個從源頭嘛就是看看這些機車行啊或者說這個販售所以我就點出這一點嘛你的源頭管理你是被動的等人家來登錄啊那沒有來登錄的黑數你要做核管理這個才是問題嘛我跟你說合法的啊我們都可以查得到啦那沒合法的啊因為就沒電機在來你就查不到啦\n\n04:49.958 --> 05:14.517\n我們現在最需要去查的是什麼那些非法的黑數啊那才是造成公害的最主要之原因嘛對馬部長那怎麼辦那所以這一塊我們未來就加強這一塊特別是不要再用自驗的啦我想應該...你怎麼加強啊我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強我們張市長來回答好了這個...好了誰可以來回答\n\n05:15.376 --> 05:33.446\n我想最主要還是後端的那個稽查包括那個聲音照相還有那個聯合稽查這個都要一起搭配上後端的稽查那從源頭管理到後端的稽查這中間沒有其他可以有積極的行政作為嗎因為就是我們那個改裝的場所可能我們要做一些\n\n05:35.587 --> 05:46.956\n去看看到底改了什麼東西對嘛所以我說跨部會嘛第一個改裝的場所嘛再來改裝的場所如果是沒有登記的咧欸我們現在也看到很多個人工作室在改裝欸啊這個查得到嗎也查不到啊這也就是所謂的黑數嘛對不對是不是那這又該哪一個部會管經濟部還是交通部是不是經濟部\n\n06:06.988 --> 06:18.867\n對嘛,所以你們跨部我現在講的不只是機車行喔現在已經有新興的行業叫做個人工作室喔那個人工作室是誰管?\n\n06:37.170 --> 06:37.250\n委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":3.92,"text":"先謝謝趙偉跟各位委員謝謝那我們是先請薛部長請薛部長"},{"start":11.767,"end":25.204,"text":"部長好,其實我聽了一個早上很多委員都有提到這個噪音是公害而且是大家很痛餓的那其實在各縣市我知道都有相關的專案執法執法的專案比如說桃園有桃園的台中我記得有一個進城專案"},{"start":30.49,"end":54.471,"text":"但是呢大家都認為專案式的執法效力不髒為什麼因為呢專案式的執法都是在特定的時間那特定的區域那所以呢才會有今天部長您來報告我們要從源頭管理到後來我們的這個改管要登錄那如果沒有登錄要開法我們要做全套的一個管制對不對部長是"},{"start":55.592,"end":74.605,"text":"是,那你認為如果我們全套的管制之後呢那地方的進程專案或者是桃園的這個淨桃專案你覺得像這樣專案的執行效果會不會加倍當然會這個產生一些效果但是還沒有辦法達到我要聽的是但是"},{"start":75.913,"end":105.913,"text":"﹗"},{"start":106.394,"end":121.292,"text":"可是科技的執法也是固定點啊那你的移動點,你的移動點如何移動那當然一定是由你們的一個策略嘛對不對所以除了增加這個設備之外那我們的策略跨部會是怎麼樣的來"},{"start":122.779,"end":122.799,"text":"大衛"},{"start":151.867,"end":175.807,"text":"未來的執行面當然就是環境部我們現在擔心的是執行啊我們現在擔心的是執行面啦就是說執行面啦議員嘛跨部會都協調不好的話就更不要苛責地方政府來跟中央配合啊對那執行面的話當然就是說環境部我們針對噪音那我想交通部或者這個警政署的這一塊可是現在聽起來你們各自為政啊"},{"start":176.327,"end":201.969,"text":"對,所以這一塊我希望能夠有個平台所以你說跟未來的彭部長你要無縫接軌那這整套的這個管理系統那怎麼樣無縫接軌那其他部會換了新的首長怎麼樣無縫接軌我覺得這個事才是民眾所關心的事實上環境部也有成功的案例比如說我們在抓不管是空污、水污跟土壤的污染我們有一個檢警環的"},{"start":203.03,"end":205.753,"text":"我只是希望既然我們有心要做、要管理那應該要把它想清楚如何能夠不要只是專案式的一個稽查方式"},{"start":221.67,"end":242.52,"text":"有系統性的能夠去防範這些噪音公害的產生嘛我只問你一個嘛比如說剛剛有其他委員有講到嘛現在我們要源頭管制那改管要登錄那你給我的報告說從1月1號執行到4月15號總共來申請登錄的有14971件那部長你承不承認會不會有黑數"},{"start":248.348,"end":259.446,"text":"一定有黑素嘛一定有黑素嘛那黑素你怎麼去稽查得知呢只能靠事後的剛剛講的專案稽查嗎"},{"start":262.143,"end":287.897,"text":"我想這個從源頭嘛就是看看這些機車行啊或者說這個販售所以我就點出這一點嘛你的源頭管理你是被動的等人家來登錄啊那沒有來登錄的黑數你要做核管理這個才是問題嘛我跟你說合法的啊我們都可以查得到啦那沒合法的啊因為就沒電機在來你就查不到啦"},{"start":289.958,"end":314.517,"text":"我們現在最需要去查的是什麼那些非法的黑數啊那才是造成公害的最主要之原因嘛對馬部長那怎麼辦那所以這一塊我們未來就加強這一塊特別是不要再用自驗的啦我想應該...你怎麼加強啊我現在要聽的是你打算怎麼加強我們張市長來回答好了這個...好了誰可以來回答"},{"start":315.376,"end":333.446,"text":"我想最主要還是後端的那個稽查包括那個聲音照相還有那個聯合稽查這個都要一起搭配上後端的稽查那從源頭管理到後端的稽查這中間沒有其他可以有積極的行政作為嗎因為就是我們那個改裝的場所可能我們要做一些"},{"start":335.587,"end":346.956,"text":"去看看到底改了什麼東西對嘛所以我說跨部會嘛第一個改裝的場所嘛再來改裝的場所如果是沒有登記的咧欸我們現在也看到很多個人工作室在改裝欸啊這個查得到嗎也查不到啊這也就是所謂的黑數嘛對不對是不是那這又該哪一個部會管經濟部還是交通部是不是經濟部"},{"start":366.988,"end":378.867,"text":"對嘛,所以你們跨部我現在講的不只是機車行喔現在已經有新興的行業叫做個人工作室喔那個人工作室是誰管?"},{"start":380.111,"end":397.09,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":397.17,"end":397.25,"text":"委員發言"}]}}}}