{"id":151570,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151570","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336985d9fd775dbd2497dee175bc8e0be1adcb4691eb09bf4e29ec3e105ef7df5dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"12:08:15 - 12:18:54","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：\n(一)\t本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(二)\t本院委員黃捷等19人、委員羅明才等16人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等2案。【本院委員羅明才等16人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n二、審查「保險法」4案：\n(一)\t本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員王鴻薇等16人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院台灣民眾黨黨團提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案。\n【4月22日及24日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-10"},"duration":639,"end_time":"2024-04-22T12:18:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T12:08:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":789,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（12時8分）謝謝主席，請莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：部長好。我們金門地區因為缺水很乾旱，水如果從臺灣本島運過去的話非常貴，而且緩不濟急，遠水也救不了近火！所以我們做了一個大陸的引水計畫，也從大陸供水過來了，引水已經進來5年，為了配合這個，我們要做一些淨水池、淨水廠。這是金門的自來水擴建計畫第一期是13.55億，根據當時候行政院103年的核定，這個錢叫金門縣政府自己出，很不公平啦！但是因為我們真的是缺水常有乾旱，不得已我們也就答應了，後續再由經濟部來攤提、來補貼，由金門縣政府先出錢，然後經濟部再來還我們。那時候擴建的資金是這樣子，13.55億裡頭其中有2.4億是跟貴部財政部的地方建設基金貸款，剩下我們跟其他銀行永豐、土銀貸款，然後由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情，經費跟這些單位借以外，我們出一些錢還要付利息。","但是自來水這個東西，事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項啦，我們承擔民生供水，中央政府對我們來講是很不公平啦！全臺灣的水怎麼來、誰付錢，這都是中央的事情啊！可是我們是離島，因為我們自己缺水，水從臺灣過來事實上很不划算，我們為了要有水從大陸買水、進水，做這些設備要自己出錢。當初中央是說由我們先出，跟財政部借錢，經濟部再墊還給我們，您瞭解這個背景嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，您瞭解這個背景。但是現在我們就欠你們地方建設基金2.4億，金門縣政府就欠財政部2.4億嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前是2.4億。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，欠你們錢啦！但是地方建設基金，在財政部跟國發會、主計總處溝通，109年的時候，地方建設基金要解編嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：裁撤。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，就是沒有這個基金嘛！現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊？當初叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們，就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢、墊這個錢，然後經濟部每一年的水費差價，比如說多少錢慢慢、慢慢還，我們再還給財政部，慢慢、慢慢還嘛！而現在你們解編，財政部要金門縣政府一次還2.4億，我們現在沒有辦法、沒有能力啊！本來應該是中央政府的事情，對吧？我們先幫忙承擔了，然後現在因為你們中央政府要解編基金，叫我們一次還，怎麼辦呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經就簽了最長是5年的貸款期，陸陸續續也都在還，所以最後期限到1月9號還差2.4億。所以這個部分，建設基金雖然109年裁撤，但是它陸續該還的還是要還，但並不是因為建設基金裁撤所以才要還這2.4億，而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況，所以跟建設基金裁撤……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛，經濟部要慢慢的給我們錢，讓我們來還你們，本來是這個樣子嘛！這不是只有你們這個部的事情，但是在財政委員會，我也常常跟主計總處講，你看我跟朱澤民講過多少次，我說我們現在就財政不好、沒有錢嘛，不像以前那麼有錢，沒有錢嘛！叫他把我們的財政劃分降一點，從3級降到5級，讓我們可以少支出一點嘛！他說你們很有錢，可是我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦呢？沒辦法還啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會啦！金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢，本來是中央要做的事情，水這個東西，以前電也是我們自己負責啦，我們以前是金門電廠，水現在還是我們金門自來水廠，金大如果沒有錢，我們要幫忙出錢；金門醫院沒有錢，我們要幫忙出錢，金門都要自己負擔一個中央政府應該做的事情，你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想不是啦！我想當時都有一個計畫在執行，然後經濟部也有編列預算做全額的補助，這個部分都有在做。"],["陳委員玉珍：我是說現在因為沒有錢，有沒有什麼其他方案，我們再跟你們借？反正你們……"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們再來研議。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們說我們有錢嘛，也不怕我們欠啦！讓我們繼續再借。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再來研議看看怎麼處理，好不好？"],["陳委員玉珍：就是晚一點還啦！你們可以幫我們研擬什麼方案？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再來研議，因為這個事情我這兩天才知道，是不是再研議看看？"],["陳委員玉珍：對，我們在地方首長會議跟張景森政委也有討論這件事情，縣政府也反映得很厲害。"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道，你們在首長聯繫會報也有提案。"],["陳委員玉珍：有提這個案子。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們會再討論。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們也要整體考慮，當然因為不是你一個人的事情，也要整體考慮，我們因為引水讓中央政府省了好多錢，跟大陸進水就省得從臺灣這麼遠1噸500塊的運費運過來，省很多錢，而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低，而且又度過了3次的旱災啦，這個事實上影響很大。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以這個部分，你幫我們看看2.4億，反正你說金門縣的財政不錯，對不對？所以是一個好的客戶，繼續再借，我們利息慢慢付，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們會再續行討論這部分，謝謝。"],["陳委員玉珍：幫我們檢討一下，然後還沒有還錢，不要扣我們統籌分配款喔！這個不要忘記，這麼規矩的好學生，什麼事情都擔下來自己做，不該自己做的事情，依法水、電、醫院、學校，大學和醫院喔！金門縣政府都貼錢耶，連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊！什麼都貼錢，我們是為了金門的建設發展，不得已自己……你們都知道，我們勒緊褲帶很辛苦，還要喝高粱酒。好，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員玉珍：下一個，我們不是從大陸進口水嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：進口水進來，這個水本來就應該是中央政府要做，現在我們地方政府自己來做，而我們還要繳納營業稅，這個不合理吧？你看，雖然錢不是很多，幾百萬啦，你看我們相關的加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講，進口以下貨物免徵營業稅。你看，其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況，調節物資進口，像小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆，這一種都是民生必需嘛！那水是不是民生必需？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅，所以只要在銷售的時候都會要課徵營業稅……"],["陳委員玉珍：那水要賣給誰啊？水就是金門縣政府給百姓，為了要一定的價錢，跟臺灣百姓一樣的水價嘛！所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來，還要貼錢，還要自己做什麼水廠對吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：全部都自己貼，雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已，但也是可以在裡頭修法，你看如果大麥、小麥、玉米、黃豆這些都可以機動的調整，金門這個水應該也可以機動調整啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為這是民生必需品，不是拿來賣的、不是拿來賺錢的啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，但有關於虧損的部分，經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，編列預算就編得比較慢啊！我們先墊錢，剛剛我不是跟你說過前提了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：嗯。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我們中間要墊很多錢，你們又要叫我們趕快一次還，我們現在還不起啊！所以地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛，而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊！你可以考慮一下，這個是民生經濟，這個是水嘛，這是民生必需品，不是買來營利的，還虧錢，你也知道……"],["莊部長翠雲：稅的部分跟這個款項不一樣，它是因為調節物資供應做一個機動性的調整……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，我知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以每3個月……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒關係，我們可以不要機動，我們可以長期嘛，你可以把它修成長期的，不用機動啦，因為水是必需品，長期都要用的。"],["莊部長翠雲：長期就不能適用這一項了嘛。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，但是我們可以多一項啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：水是民生必需品，而且這本來就是中央應該負責的，事實上如果沒有，到時候經濟部也要再貼錢進來嘛，那何必這樣子，你們兩個部會可能要協調一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個稅的制度……"],["陳委員玉珍：站在照顧離島的立場，事實上這真的是你們的事情，不是我們的事情，所有事情都叫我們自己來……"],["莊部長翠雲：我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面已經有相關的一些照顧的條款……"],["陳委員玉珍：是，那到時候我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭，好不好？我們從離島建設條例來寫，我也可以寫在裡頭啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，離島建設條例已經有相關的，就金門水廠案，本島的部分都可以有相關的補貼啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：好，那你就用那個當法源，讓我們營業稅免徵嘛，你就把那個當法源就可以了，那可以啊，如果你同意這樣，不修法我也可以同意啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：有不一樣的……"],["陳委員玉珍：是不多錢啦，一年大概幾百萬啦！但也是對地區影響很大……"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，這是不一樣的事……"],["陳委員玉珍：我的意思是原則啦，修在哪裡我都可以，但是原則就是這個民生基本、民生需要，水、電這些都是中央政府應該負擔的，不然到時候我質詢院長，請他把水廠收過去當臺灣水廠，不要做金門，以前我們電也是這樣，全部都我們自己出嘛！我想因為在座可能很多人不瞭解……"],["莊部長翠雲：在臺灣水跟電也是要課營業稅的。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，但是我的意思是，因為臺灣反正是經濟部在出的嘛，都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊，那個都是臺灣的、都是政府的，我們都是地方政府自己出啊！我想大部分在場的人都不瞭解，所有東西包括金門的水、醫療、教育什麼東西都要自己出錢，不能說自己很有錢，要求調降也都不願意，部長請給我們多多支持好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量，通案性的……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，你通盤的考量一下，在院會裡頭幫我們多說一下吧！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再考量，是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員玉珍：多多考量好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：多多考量是不是？好，謝謝。"],["陳委員玉珍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，下一位請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-10","speakers":["羅明才","王世堅","徐富癸","王鴻薇","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","李彥秀","顏寬恒","賴惠員","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：(一)本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19\n人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等 4案、(二)本院委\n員黃捷等19 人、委員羅明才等16 人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等 2 案；二、審查「保險法」 4 案：\n(一)本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員\n蔡易餘等 19 人、委員王鴻薇等 16 人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等 2 案；\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案","agenda_id":"1133201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151570","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151570","tool":"pyannote","id":"151570-pyannote"},"job_id":"sP1kOGEAil7vNn0a","queued_at":"2024-05-31 19:50:37","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 19:51:14","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151570"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:51:15","msg":"downloading 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00:01:23,535\n由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情從經費跟這些單位借我們自己出借以外我們出一些錢然後我們還要付這個利息但是呢\n\n5\n00:01:25,031 --> 00:01:27,532\n自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情\n\n6\n00:01:41,596 --> 00:02:01,146\n我們是離島啊,因為我們自己缺水,中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算。我們為了要有水,我們從大陸買水、淨水做這些設備,我們要自己出錢喔。那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢,經濟部再電還給我們。齁,這個您了解這個背景嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:03,767 --> 00:02:28,080\n但是現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊\n\n8\n00:02:30,579 --> 00:02:35,923\n當初說叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢墊這個錢然後經濟部每一年的這個水費差價比如說多少錢慢慢慢慢還我們再還給財政部慢慢慢慢還嘛那現在你們解編你們現在財政部要我們金門縣政府一次的這個還這個2.4億我們現在沒有辦法沒有能力啊\n\n9\n00:02:52,173 --> 00:03:02,669\n本來是應該中央政府的事情對吧我們先去幫忙承擔了然後現在因為你們中央政府又要解編這個基金嘛現在叫我們一次還怎麼辦勒\n\n10\n00:03:07,205 --> 00:03:11,851\n當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億\n\n11\n00:03:22,583 --> 00:03:34,065\n所以這個部分呢,建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢,他還是陸續在該還的還是要還但是不是跟建設,並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛\n\n12\n00:03:48,388 --> 00:04:10,152\n當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛像他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒\n\n13\n00:04:14,494 --> 00:04:29,628\n沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠\n\n14\n00:04:30,789 --> 00:04:50,865\n水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢所以金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助\n\n15\n00:05:26,938 --> 00:05:49,948\n我們這個因為飲水齁讓中央政府省了好多錢跟大陸進水就省得從台灣這麼遠一頓500塊的運費要運過來省了很多錢而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低而且又度過了三次的這個旱災啦這個事實上影響很大所以是不是這個問題你幫我們看這個二點是反正你說金門先生財政不錯的所以是一個好的這個客戶\n\n16\n00:05:51,008 --> 00:05:51,028\n繼續再見!\n\n17\n00:06:12,642 --> 00:06:40,330\n大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅\n\n18\n00:06:43,135 --> 00:07:08,448\n這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口這像那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?\n\n19\n00:07:10,073 --> 00:07:30,583\n跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠\n\n20\n00:07:31,784 --> 00:07:46,766\n對嗎?全部都自己貼那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭像你看那個如果大麥小麥玉米黃豆這些都可以激動的調整金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啦因為這是民生必需品啦\n\n21\n00:07:47,407 --> 00:08:14,327\n不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊是,那但是對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們又要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊,這個不是說,而且水嘛\n\n22\n00:08:15,268 --> 00:08:16,830\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n23\n00:08:31,008 --> 00:08:47,193\n因為水是必需品,長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水是民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。\n\n24\n00:08:48,553 --> 00:09:04,186\n那你何必這樣子?你們兩個不會可能要協調一下?站在照顧這個離島的這個立場。事實上真的這是你們的事情,不是我們的事情。我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面就有相關的一些照顧的條款。那我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭好不好?我們從離島建設條例來寫。我也可以寫在裡頭嗎?\n\n25\n00:09:09,673 --> 00:09:34,340\n沒有啊,離島建設條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思是說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說\n\n26\n00:09:35,861 --> 00:09:57,395\n這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們店也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西\n\n27\n00:09:59,136 --> 00:10:26,503\n因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊。我想因為大部分在場的人都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢。不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意。那個部長請跟我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量全額。對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。\n\n28\n00:10:28,665 --> 00:10:29,186\n多多考量!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4693\t10679\t委員好 這個我們金門地區這個在因為缺水嘛 很乾旱 那水如果從這個台灣本島運過去的話 非常貴而且環不濟急嘛 原水救不了進火\n19631\t36417\t所以我們做了一個大陸的飲水計劃也從大陸供水過來了為了配合這個飲水已經5年了這個水已經進來5年為了配合這個我們要做一些淨水池、淨水廠就一個金門的自來水擴建計劃第一期是13.55億根據當時候行政院103元的核定這個錢叫金門縣政府自己出\n44420\t47521\t財政部的地方建設基金貸款那剩下我們跟其他銀行啊永豐啊圖銀啊貸款喔然後\n71352\t83535\t由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情從經費跟這些單位借我們自己出借以外我們出一些錢然後我們還要付這個利息但是呢\n85031\t87532\t自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情\n101596\t121146\t我們是離島啊,因為我們自己缺水,中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算。我們為了要有水,我們從大陸買水、淨水做這些設備,我們要自己出錢喔。那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢,經濟部再電還給我們。齁,這個您了解這個背景嗎?\n123767\t148080\t但是現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊\n150579\t155923\t當初說叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢墊這個錢然後經濟部每一年的這個水費差價比如說多少錢慢慢慢慢還我們再還給財政部慢慢慢慢還嘛那現在你們解編你們現在財政部要我們金門縣政府一次的這個還這個2.4億我們現在沒有辦法沒有能力啊\n172173\t182669\t本來是應該中央政府的事情對吧我們先去幫忙承擔了然後現在因為你們中央政府又要解編這個基金嘛現在叫我們一次還怎麼辦勒\n187205\t191851\t當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億\n202583\t214065\t所以這個部分呢,建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢,他還是陸續在該還的還是要還但是不是跟建設,並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛\n228388\t250152\t當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛像他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒\n254494\t269628\t沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠\n270789\t290865\t水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢所以金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助\n291425\t309411\t️﹏﹏﹏\n309411\t326698\t​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​\n326938\t349948\t我們這個因為飲水齁讓中央政府省了好多錢跟大陸進水就省得從台灣這麼遠一頓500塊的運費要運過來省了很多錢而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低而且又度過了三次的這個旱災啦這個事實上影響很大所以是不是這個問題你幫我們看這個二點是反正你說金門先生財政不錯的所以是一個好的這個客戶\n351008\t351028\t繼續再見!\n372642\t400330\t大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅\n403135\t428448\t這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口這像那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?\n430073\t450583\t跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠\n451784\t466766\t對嗎?全部都自己貼那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭像你看那個如果大麥小麥玉米黃豆這些都可以激動的調整金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啦因為這是民生必需品啦\n467407\t494327\t不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊是,那但是對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們又要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊,這個不是說,而且水嘛\n495268\t496830\t議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n511008\t527193\t因為水是必需品,長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水是民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。\n528553\t544186\t那你何必這樣子?你們兩個不會可能要協調一下?站在照顧這個離島的這個立場。事實上真的這是你們的事情,不是我們的事情。我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面就有相關的一些照顧的條款。那我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭好不好?我們從離島建設條例來寫。我也可以寫在裡頭嗎?\n549673\t574340\t沒有啊,離島建設條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思是說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說\n575861\t597395\t這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們店也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西\n599136\t626503\t因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊。我想因為大部分在場的人都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢。不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意。那個部長請跟我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量全額。對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。\n628665\t629186\t多多考量!\n","txt":"委員好 這個我們金門地區這個在因為缺水嘛 很乾旱 那水如果從這個台灣本島運過去的話 非常貴而且環不濟急嘛 原水救不了進火\n所以我們做了一個大陸的飲水計劃也從大陸供水過來了為了配合這個飲水已經5年了這個水已經進來5年為了配合這個我們要做一些淨水池、淨水廠就一個金門的自來水擴建計劃第一期是13.55億根據當時候行政院103元的核定這個錢叫金門縣政府自己出\n財政部的地方建設基金貸款那剩下我們跟其他銀行啊永豐啊圖銀啊貸款喔然後\n由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情從經費跟這些單位借我們自己出借以外我們出一些錢然後我們還要付這個利息但是呢\n自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情\n我們是離島啊,因為我們自己缺水,中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算。我們為了要有水,我們從大陸買水、淨水做這些設備,我們要自己出錢喔。那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢,經濟部再電還給我們。齁,這個您了解這個背景嗎?\n但是現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊\n當初說叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢墊這個錢然後經濟部每一年的這個水費差價比如說多少錢慢慢慢慢還我們再還給財政部慢慢慢慢還嘛那現在你們解編你們現在財政部要我們金門縣政府一次的這個還這個2.4億我們現在沒有辦法沒有能力啊\n本來是應該中央政府的事情對吧我們先去幫忙承擔了然後現在因為你們中央政府又要解編這個基金嘛現在叫我們一次還怎麼辦勒\n當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億\n所以這個部分呢,建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢,他還是陸續在該還的還是要還但是不是跟建設,並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛\n當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛像他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒\n沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠\n水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢所以金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助\n️﹏﹏﹏\n​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​\n我們這個因為飲水齁讓中央政府省了好多錢跟大陸進水就省得從台灣這麼遠一頓500塊的運費要運過來省了很多錢而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低而且又度過了三次的這個旱災啦這個事實上影響很大所以是不是這個問題你幫我們看這個二點是反正你說金門先生財政不錯的所以是一個好的這個客戶\n繼續再見!\n大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅\n這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口這像那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?\n跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠\n對嗎?全部都自己貼那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭像你看那個如果大麥小麥玉米黃豆這些都可以激動的調整金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啦因為這是民生必需品啦\n不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊是,那但是對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們又要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊,這個不是說,而且水嘛\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n因為水是必需品,長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水是民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。\n那你何必這樣子?你們兩個不會可能要協調一下?站在照顧這個離島的這個立場。事實上真的這是你們的事情,不是我們的事情。我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面就有相關的一些照顧的條款。那我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭好不好?我們從離島建設條例來寫。我也可以寫在裡頭嗎?\n沒有啊,離島建設條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思是說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說\n這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們店也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西\n因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊。我想因為大部分在場的人都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢。不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意。那個部長請跟我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量全額。對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。\n多多考量!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.693 --> 00:10.679\n委員好這個我們金門地區這個在因為缺水嘛很乾旱那水如果從這個台灣本島運過去的話非常貴而且環不濟急嘛原水救不了進火\n\n00:19.631 --> 00:36.417\n所以我們做了一個大陸的飲水計劃也從大陸供水過來了為了配合這個飲水已經5年了這個水已經進來5年為了配合這個我們要做一些淨水池、淨水廠就一個金門的自來水擴建計劃第一期是13.55億根據當時候行政院103元的核定這個錢叫金門縣政府自己出\n\n00:44.420 --> 00:47.521\n財政部的地方建設基金貸款那剩下我們跟其他銀行啊永豐啊圖銀啊貸款喔然後\n\n01:11.352 --> 01:23.535\n由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情從經費跟這些單位借我們自己出借以外我們出一些錢然後我們還要付這個利息但是呢\n\n01:25.031 --> 01:27.532\n自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情\n\n01:41.596 --> 02:01.146\n我們是離島啊,因為我們自己缺水,中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算。我們為了要有水,我們從大陸買水、淨水做這些設備,我們要自己出錢喔。那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢,經濟部再電還給我們。齁,這個您了解這個背景嗎?\n\n02:03.767 --> 02:28.080\n但是現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊\n\n02:30.579 --> 02:35.923\n當初說叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢墊這個錢然後經濟部每一年的這個水費差價比如說多少錢慢慢慢慢還我們再還給財政部慢慢慢慢還嘛那現在你們解編你們現在財政部要我們金門縣政府一次的這個還這個2.4億我們現在沒有辦法沒有能力啊\n\n02:52.173 --> 03:02.669\n本來是應該中央政府的事情對吧我們先去幫忙承擔了然後現在因為你們中央政府又要解編這個基金嘛現在叫我們一次還怎麼辦勒\n\n03:07.205 --> 03:11.851\n當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億\n\n03:22.583 --> 03:34.065\n所以這個部分呢,建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢,他還是陸續在該還的還是要還但是不是跟建設,並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛\n\n03:48.388 --> 04:10.152\n當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛像他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒\n\n04:14.494 --> 04:29.628\n沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠\n\n04:30.789 --> 04:50.865\n水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢所以金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助\n\n05:26.938 --> 05:49.948\n我們這個因為飲水齁讓中央政府省了好多錢跟大陸進水就省得從台灣這麼遠一頓500塊的運費要運過來省了很多錢而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低而且又度過了三次的這個旱災啦這個事實上影響很大所以是不是這個問題你幫我們看這個二點是反正你說金門先生財政不錯的所以是一個好的這個客戶\n\n05:51.008 --> 05:51.028\n繼續再見!\n\n06:12.642 --> 06:40.330\n大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅\n\n06:43.135 --> 07:08.448\n這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口這像那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?\n\n07:10.073 --> 07:30.583\n跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠\n\n07:31.784 --> 07:46.766\n對嗎?全部都自己貼那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭像你看那個如果大麥小麥玉米黃豆這些都可以激動的調整金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啦因為這是民生必需品啦\n\n07:47.407 --> 08:14.327\n不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊是,那但是對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們又要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊,這個不是說,而且水嘛\n\n08:15.268 --> 08:16.830\n議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議\n\n08:31.008 --> 08:47.193\n因為水是必需品,長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水是民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。\n\n08:48.553 --> 09:04.186\n那你何必這樣子?你們兩個不會可能要協調一下?站在照顧這個離島的這個立場。事實上真的這是你們的事情,不是我們的事情。我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面就有相關的一些照顧的條款。那我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭好不好?我們從離島建設條例來寫。我也可以寫在裡頭嗎?\n\n09:09.673 --> 09:34.340\n沒有啊,離島建設條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思是說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說\n\n09:35.861 --> 09:57.395\n這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們店也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西\n\n09:59.136 --> 10:26.503\n因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊。我想因為大部分在場的人都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢。不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意。那個部長請跟我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量全額。對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。\n\n10:28.665 --> 10:29.186\n多多考量!\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.693,"end":10.679,"text":"委員好 這個我們金門地區這個在因為缺水嘛 很乾旱 那水如果從這個台灣本島運過去的話 非常貴而且環不濟急嘛 原水救不了進火"},{"start":19.631,"end":36.417,"text":"所以我們做了一個大陸的飲水計劃也從大陸供水過來了為了配合這個飲水已經5年了這個水已經進來5年為了配合這個我們要做一些淨水池、淨水廠就一個金門的自來水擴建計劃第一期是13.55億根據當時候行政院103元的核定這個錢叫金門縣政府自己出"},{"start":44.42,"end":47.521,"text":"財政部的地方建設基金貸款那剩下我們跟其他銀行啊永豐啊圖銀啊貸款喔然後"},{"start":71.352,"end":83.535,"text":"由金門縣政府自己來做這些事情從經費跟這些單位借我們自己出借以外我們出一些錢然後我們還要付這個利息但是呢"},{"start":85.031,"end":87.532,"text":"自來水這個東西事實上不應該是地方政府的自治事項我們承擔民生供水對中央政府來講對我們來講是很不公平全台灣的水怎麼來誰付錢這都是中央的事情"},{"start":101.596,"end":121.146,"text":"我們是離島啊,因為我們自己缺水,中央的水從台灣過來實際上也很不划算。我們為了要有水,我們從大陸買水、淨水做這些設備,我們要自己出錢喔。那這個當初中央是說由我們先出跟財政部借錢,經濟部再電還給我們。齁,這個您了解這個背景嗎?"},{"start":123.767,"end":148.08,"text":"但是現在我們就欠你們這個地方建設基金2.4億嗎?基本憲政我就欠財政部2.4億嗎?目前是2.4億欠你們錢啊但是地方建設基金在你們財政部跟國發會主計總部溝通109年的時候地方建設基金要解編嘛猜測猜測對就是沒有這個基金嘛那現在變成我們就要還你們2.4億啊"},{"start":150.579,"end":155.923,"text":"當初說叫我們墊的時候是說經濟部每一年會慢慢攤提來還我們就是我們幫經濟部跟財政部借錢墊這個錢然後經濟部每一年的這個水費差價比如說多少錢慢慢慢慢還我們再還給財政部慢慢慢慢還嘛那現在你們解編你們現在財政部要我們金門縣政府一次的這個還這個2.4億我們現在沒有辦法沒有能力啊"},{"start":172.173,"end":182.669,"text":"本來是應該中央政府的事情對吧我們先去幫忙承擔了然後現在因為你們中央政府又要解編這個基金嘛現在叫我們一次還怎麼辦勒"},{"start":187.205,"end":191.851,"text":"當時金門向地方建設基金來貸款的時候已經簽了最長是5年的貸款期那也陸陸續續也都在還所以最後現在到1月9號還差2.4億"},{"start":202.583,"end":214.065,"text":"所以這個部分呢,建設基金雖然109年裁撤但是呢,他還是陸續在該還的還是要還但是不是跟建設,並不因為建設基金裁撤所以你才要還這2.4而是原來就是因為貸款的合約是5年這樣的一個情況因為這個涉及到經濟部嘛那經部要慢慢的給我們錢讓我們來還你們嘛本來是這個樣子嘛"},{"start":228.388,"end":250.152,"text":"當然這不是只有你們這個部的事情但是你看在財政委員會我也常跟這個主計總處這邊講你看我跟主席這邊那個講過多少次我說我們就現在財政不好沒有錢嘛不像說以前那麼有錢沒有錢嘛像他說把我們的這個財政這個花分降一點不要從三級降到五級讓我們可以少支出一點嘛他說你們很有錢我們現在欠你們2.4億還不出來怎麼辦勒"},{"start":254.494,"end":269.628,"text":"沒辦法還啊沒辦法還不會啦金門縣政府的財政狀況應該還不錯你們不能一直說因為我們很有錢所以什麼東西就這樣本來這個是中央要做的事情水這個東西在水上給你們以前電也是我們自己負責啦我們以前是金門電廠"},{"start":270.789,"end":290.865,"text":"水現在還是我們金門自來水廠那什麼那個金大如果沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢金門醫院沒有錢我們要幫忙出錢所以金門都要附帶一個中央政府應該做的事情你是要支持我們金門獨立嗎我想不是啦我想當時這個都有一個計畫在執行然後經濟部他也有編列預算做前額的補助"},{"start":291.425,"end":309.411,"text":" ️﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":309.411,"end":326.698,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":326.938,"end":349.948,"text":"我們這個因為飲水齁讓中央政府省了好多錢跟大陸進水就省得從台灣這麼遠一頓500塊的運費要運過來省了很多錢而且讓金門地下水的使用比例降低而且又度過了三次的這個旱災啦這個事實上影響很大所以是不是這個問題你幫我們看這個二點是反正你說金門先生財政不錯的所以是一個好的這個客戶"},{"start":351.008,"end":351.028,"text":"繼續再見!"},{"start":372.642,"end":400.33,"text":"大學喔醫院喔金門現在都貼錢欸連金門大橋我們都自己貼錢下去啊什麼都貼錢啊我們是為了金門的建設發展啊不得已自己都知道我們熱井酷待很辛苦還喝高粱酒好謝謝來下一個進水對不對這個我們不是從大陸進口水嗎那進口水這個進來呢這個水本來就是應該中央政府要做現在我們地方政府自己來做那這個我們還要繳納這個營業稅"},{"start":403.135,"end":428.448,"text":"這個不合理吧?你看喔雖然這個錢不是很多啦幾百萬啦那你看我們這個相關的這個加值型及非加值型營業稅法第九條、第九條之一有講進口以下貨物免徵營業稅你看其中有一個因應經濟特殊狀況調節物資進口這像那時候小麥、大麥、玉米、黃豆這一種都是民生必需嘛那水是不是民生必需?"},{"start":430.073,"end":450.583,"text":"跟委員報告因為營業稅是屬於一般的消費稅在銷售的時候都會要課正營業稅那水要賣給誰啊?水就是金門縣政府給百姓為了要一定的價錢跟台灣的百姓一樣的水價嘛所以金門縣政府自己進了水進來還要貼錢還要自己做什麼水廠"},{"start":451.784,"end":466.766,"text":"對嗎?全部都自己貼那這個雖然這個稅是幾百萬而已但這個也是可以在裡頭修法裡頭像你看那個如果大麥小麥玉米黃豆這些都可以激動的調整金門這個水應該也可以激動調整啦因為這是民生必需品啦"},{"start":467.407,"end":494.327,"text":"不是拿來賣的啊,不是拿來賺錢的啊是,那但是對於有關這個虧損的部分那經濟部也編列了預算來做撥補我知道,那編列算就編的比較慢啊我們先墊錢,剛剛我前面前提跟你說過了嗎所以我們中間要墊很多錢啊然後你們又要叫我們趕快一次還我們又現在還不起啊所以我們可以各個地方可以省的要讓我們省嘛而且這個是符合照顧民生經濟啊你可以考慮一下這個是民生經濟啊,這個不是說,而且水嘛"},{"start":495.268,"end":496.83,"text":"議員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議"},{"start":511.008,"end":527.193,"text":"因為水是必需品,長期都要用的。對,但是你可以再,我們可以多一項啊。多一項啊。水是民生必需品,而且這本來就是中央應該負責的。事實上如果沒有也是,那個到時候經濟部他要再貼錢進來嘛。"},{"start":528.553,"end":544.186,"text":"那你何必這樣子?你們兩個不會可能要協調一下?站在照顧這個離島的這個立場。事實上真的這是你們的事情,不是我們的事情。我想離島部分的離島建設條例裡面就有相關的一些照顧的條款。那我們寫在離島建設條例裡頭好不好?我們從離島建設條例來寫。我也可以寫在裡頭嗎?"},{"start":549.673,"end":574.34,"text":"沒有啊,離島建設條例已經有相關的就金門水廠案這個本島的這個部分的話都可以有相關的補貼啊好,那你就用那個當法源讓我們這個營業稅免徵嘛你就把那個當法源就可以了那可以啊,如果你這樣同意我不修法我也可以同意啦不一樣的是不多錢啦,一年大概幾百萬啦但是也是對地區影響很大不一樣的,是是是我的意思是說原則啦哪一、修在哪裡我都可以但是原則就是說"},{"start":575.861,"end":597.395,"text":"這個民生基本民生的需要水啊、電啊這些都是中央政府應該負擔的不然就是我到時候不然諮詢院長請他把水廠收過去當台灣水廠不要做基本以前我們店也是這樣全部都我們自己出嘛在台灣的話水跟電也是要課營業稅的啦在水跟電都要課在台灣我知道但是我的意思是說這個東西"},{"start":599.136,"end":626.503,"text":"因為臺灣科反正是經濟部在出的嘛,都是你們臺灣自來水公司啊,那個都臺灣的都是政府的,我們都地方政府自己出啊。我想因為大部分在場的人都不了解,所有東西金門的什麼水啊這些東西醫療啊教育什麼都要自己出錢。不能說自己很有錢要求條項什麼都也不願意。那個部長請跟我們多多支持好嗎?委員我想這個部分還是要通盤的考量全額。對你通盤的考量一下在如果院會裡頭,幫我們多說一下吧。"},{"start":628.665,"end":629.186,"text":"多多考量!"}]}}}}