{"id":151575,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151575","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c33690df2d7b8230ab7d7dee175bc8e0be1adcb4691eb09bf4e29dddcc694b59bbf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:35:51 - 12:44:02","影片長度":"00:08:11","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：\n(一)\t本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(二)\t本院委員黃捷等19人、委員羅明才等16人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等2案。【本院委員羅明才等16人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n二、審查「保險法」4案：\n(一)\t本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員王鴻薇等16人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院台灣民眾黨黨團提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案。\n【4月22日及24日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-22","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-10"},"duration":491,"end_time":"2024-04-22T12:44:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-22T12:35:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":954,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時35分）謝謝主席，麻煩請金管委會主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好。主委辛苦了，即將要卸任了，我相信您在金管會任內服務這麼久，您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價，雖然您即將要卸任，有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問清楚，因為政府會輪替，閣員會換人，金管會主委會換人，但是對於我們一般民眾的保護應該是要持續的，不會因為換人的情況而產生變動。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，請委員指示。"],["黃委員國昌：從上一屆的國會到這一屆的國會，以im.B的例子、im.B弊案引發的風暴，我們開始全面的去思考跟反省，之前我在質詢的時候也請教過您，在2016年的時候本來P2P要納管，然後在某一個時間當中突然政策做了非常大的轉彎，後來央行針對主要的國家在訂定P2P規範的時候，他們也很清楚的把各國規範的態度整理出來了，從美國、英國、澳洲等各個國家，我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了，不管是就P2P平臺的監理規範或者是P2P平臺應該要有的主管機關，或者是說P2P平臺的業者設立的核准或登記，我相信這份報告主委應該也很熟嘛﹗"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有拜讀，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：是嘛！當然我知道啦，金管會到目前為止的立場可能會考慮到金管會自己目前本身的量能，還是確定沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：現階段，因為去年行政院開過會，有幾個方向，那個也陳給委員看過，有幾個步驟啦，包括我們訂定了指導原則、公會的自律，但公會現在因為每個人的model不一樣，所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還要再協調。"],["黃委員國昌：對，您就先針對問題回答就好了，到目前為止的政策立場是沒有要納管嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有用立法的方式去管，對。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有用立法的方式嘛！我也拜讀了金管會所推出的指導原則，真的，你們P2P借貸平臺所推的指導原則，我從頭到尾詳細拜讀完了，作為一個法律人，我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼？這個指導原則是法規命令嗎？是行政規則嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，它沒有法律的基礎。"],["黃委員國昌：它沒有法律的基礎嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["黃委員國昌：我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要，因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎，那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題，第一個事情是違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為我們105年開始，基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動，透過銀行間接對他的風控這方面去做一個管理，是用這種方式去做的。"],["黃委員國昌：對，所以我的問題成立，主委你還沒有回答，違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：基本上沒有特定的法律效果……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有特定的法律效果嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為它沒有法律的依據。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的，要不然大家接收到的訊息是說，金管會有推指導原則，大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像，那個錯誤的想像就是這個平臺業者要遵照這個指導原則，如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛，所以很清楚的，讓所有的人都知道，這些平臺業者不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛，我的理解有沒有錯誤？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，就P2P是這個樣子，可是允不允許我可以多講一、兩句話？"],["黃委員國昌：可以，請說。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們在那個虛擬資產平臺，也是去年9月26號有訂定指導原則，目前也還沒有定法，但是VASP公會的業者對我們的指導原則是遵循的，而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查。"],["黃委員國昌：我這樣說好了，我們之所以有訂定規範的必要，我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範，之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["黃委員國昌：以目前臺灣P2P借貸平臺也好，債權轉讓也好的亂象，我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法，去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範，我覺得是緣木求魚啦！我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候，我們的法律效果是什麼，給大家的保護是什麼，這個才實際嘛，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["黃委員國昌：主席，你真的大小眼，你……"],["主席：我就是站起來，你不喜歡看到我站起來？"],["黃委員國昌：伸展身體就對了。你不要大小眼！最後一題。","主委，這件事情很重要，你要讓社會大眾知道，這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣，我為什麼很重視這件事情，就是另外一個，你們一直說要成立商業同業公會，讓他們自律嘛，商業同業公會講到今天成立了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前還沒有，因為業者之間彼此意見分歧，有的就排他，他覺得你的模式跟我不符，我不要給你加入這個公會，有這個問題。"],["黃委員國昌：主委，目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛剛講的話嗎？這一些業者連要不要成立商業公會、誰主導、誰可以參加、誰不可以參加，都可以鬧得不可開交，還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範，主委，你覺得我講的有沒有道理？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員指教的值得我們參考，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：他們這樣繼續鬧下去，主委，依照您的判斷，在您卸任以前，這個商業同業公會成立得起來嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候。"],["黃委員國昌：就原地踏步嘛，持續的在踏步嘛，過了一年以後，我可能在這個地方問下屆主委這個P2P業者的商業同業公會成立了嗎？他可能跟你的答案一模一樣，這些業者大家有不一樣的看法，到現在都還沒有成立。這就是為什麼我苦口婆心地講，金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼，或許要重新思考，因為我真的很擔心，我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平臺出了狀況，又有多少人會受害，主委，您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式給我們的指導，我們會記住，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：好，最後啦，最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話，要接金管會主委沒那麼容易，我希望新的內閣針對P2P這件事情，立場到底是什麼？是不是還是採取我們不納管，用自律規範的方式，這個可能要先想清楚，因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。接著請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-10","speakers":["羅明才","王世堅","徐富癸","王鴻薇","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","李彥秀","顏寬恒","賴惠員","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：(一)本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19\n人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等 4案、(二)本院委\n員黃捷等19 人、委員羅明才等16 人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等 2 案；二、審查「保險法」 4 案：\n(一)本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員\n蔡易餘等 19 人、委員王鴻薇等 16 人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等 2 案；\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案","agenda_id":"1133201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151575","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151575","tool":"pyannote","id":"151575-pyannote"},"job_id":"SCK3DzepOyG8VFok","queued_at":"2024-05-31 19:45:25","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 19:47:23","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151575"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:47:24","msg":"downloading 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{\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 470.489, \"end\": 470.829, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 470.829, \"end\": 471.47, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 471.47, \"end\": 471.67, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 471.67, \"end\": 471.81, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 471.81, \"end\": 472.29, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 472.29, \"end\": 472.45, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 472.45, \"end\": 472.65, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 472.65, \"end\": 472.91, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 472.91, \"end\": 473.01, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 473.01, \"end\": 473.11, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 473.11, \"end\": 473.25, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 473.25, \"end\": 473.47, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 473.47, \"end\": 473.69, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 473.69, \"end\": 473.91, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 473.91, \"end\": 474.15, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 474.15, \"end\": 474.93, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 474.93, \"end\": 475.13, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 475.13, \"end\": 475.37, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 475.37, \"end\": 475.55, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 475.55, \"end\": 476.35, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 476.35, \"end\": 476.57, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 476.57, \"end\": 476.85, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 476.85, \"end\": 476.97, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 476.97, \"end\": 477.111, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 477.111, \"end\": 477.291, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 477.291, \"end\": 477.531, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 477.531, \"end\": 477.871, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 477.871, \"end\": 478.211, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 478.211, \"end\": 478.531, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 478.531, \"end\": 478.551, \"score\": 0.025}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,123 --> 00:00:11,084\n謝謝主席,有請監管會主委。黃主委你好\n\n2\n00:00:12,325 --> 00:00:34,934\n主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替\n\n3\n00:00:38,235 --> 00:00:47,282\n閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動\n\n4\n00:00:53,877 --> 00:01:09,654\n從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發了風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管\n\n5\n00:01:13,660 --> 00:01:31,707\n﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第17條條文修正草案：立法院第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條文修正草案：立法院第19條文修正草案：立法院第20條文修正草案：\n\n6\n00:01:34,824 --> 00:01:57,865\n澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的建立規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委您應該也很熟嗎?我有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好\n\n7\n00:01:59,571 --> 00:02:10,744\n當然我知道啦金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛對不對\n\n8\n00:02:14,331 --> 00:02:36,209\n現在當然因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自立但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調您就先針對問題回答就好了到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:37,967 --> 00:02:59,798\n沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛因為我拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:01,324 --> 00:03:20,204\n這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?\n\n11\n00:03:21,670 --> 00:03:40,471\n因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立,除了您還沒有回答,《委員制導原則》的法律效果是什麼?\n\n12\n00:03:41,152 --> 00:04:08,135\n基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有特定的法律效果他沒有法律的依據沒有這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛\n\n13\n00:04:09,036 --> 00:04:18,844\n所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤\n\n14\n00:04:20,015 --> 00:04:40,360\n委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦\n\n15\n00:04:41,752 --> 00:05:09,866\n我們之所以有定定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛那以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚啦\n\n16\n00:05:10,766 --> 00:05:35,995\n我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題不要大小眼做好\n\n17\n00:05:38,049 --> 00:05:59,344\n這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎\n\n18\n00:06:00,410 --> 00:06:27,515\n目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊\n\n19\n00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:39,757\n主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?\n\n20\n00:06:41,274 --> 00:07:00,601\n目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位的工會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法\n\n21\n00:07:02,093 --> 00:07:20,214\n到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台\n\n22\n00:07:21,155 --> 00:07:41,727\n除了狀況,又有多少人會受害?主委您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎?我會很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導,我們會記住。好,那最後啦,最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話啦。要接金管會主委沒那麼容易啊。\n\n23\n00:07:42,728 --> 00:07:58,551\n我希望新的內閣針對批徒批這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3123\t11084\t謝謝主席,有請監管會主委。黃主委你好\n12325\t34934\t主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替\n38235\t47282\t閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動\n53877\t69654\t從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發了風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管\n73660\t91707\t﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第17條條文修正草案：立法院第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條文修正草案：立法院第19條文修正草案：立法院第20條文修正草案：\n94824\t117865\t澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的建立規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委您應該也很熟嗎?我有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好\n119571\t130744\t當然我知道啦 金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛 對不對\n134331\t156209\t現在當然因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自立但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調您就先針對問題回答就好了到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?\n157967\t179798\t沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛因為我拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼\n181324\t200204\t這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?\n201670\t220471\t因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立,除了您還沒有回答,《委員制導原則》的法律效果是什麼?\n221152\t248135\t基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有特定的法律效果他沒有法律的依據沒有 這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛\n249036\t258844\t所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤\n260015\t280360\t委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦\n281752\t309866\t我們之所以有定定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛那以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚啦\n310766\t335995\t我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛 對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題不要大小眼做好\n338049\t359344\t這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎\n360410\t387515\t目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊\n388840\t399757\t主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?\n401274\t420601\t目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位的工會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法\n422093\t440214\t到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台\n441155\t461727\t除了狀況,又有多少人會受害?主委您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎?我會很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導,我們會記住。好,那最後啦,最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話啦。要接金管會主委沒那麼容易啊。\n462728\t478551\t我希望新的內閣針對批徒批這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請監管會主委。黃主委你好\n主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替\n閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動\n從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發了風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管\n﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第17條條文修正草案：立法院第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條文修正草案：立法院第19條文修正草案：立法院第20條文修正草案：\n澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的建立規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委您應該也很熟嗎?我有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好\n當然我知道啦 金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛 對不對\n現在當然因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自立但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調您就先針對問題回答就好了到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?\n沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛因為我拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼\n這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?\n因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立,除了您還沒有回答,《委員制導原則》的法律效果是什麼?\n基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有特定的法律效果他沒有法律的依據沒有 這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛\n所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤\n委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦\n我們之所以有定定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛那以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚啦\n我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛 對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題不要大小眼做好\n這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎\n目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊\n主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?\n目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位的工會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法\n到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台\n除了狀況,又有多少人會受害?主委您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎?我會很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導,我們會記住。好,那最後啦,最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話啦。要接金管會主委沒那麼容易啊。\n我希望新的內閣針對批徒批這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.123 --> 00:11.084\n謝謝主席,有請監管會主委。黃主委你好\n\n00:12.325 --> 00:34.934\n主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替\n\n00:38.235 --> 00:47.282\n閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動\n\n00:53.877 --> 01:09.654\n從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發了風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管\n\n01:13.660 --> 01:31.707\n﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第17條條文修正草案：立法院第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條文修正草案：立法院第19條文修正草案：立法院第20條文修正草案：\n\n01:34.824 --> 01:57.865\n澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的建立規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委您應該也很熟嗎?我有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好\n\n01:59.571 --> 02:10.744\n當然我知道啦金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛對不對\n\n02:14.331 --> 02:36.209\n現在當然因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自立但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調您就先針對問題回答就好了到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?\n\n02:37.967 --> 02:59.798\n沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛因為我拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼\n\n03:01.324 --> 03:20.204\n這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?\n\n03:21.670 --> 03:40.471\n因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立,除了您還沒有回答,《委員制導原則》的法律效果是什麼?\n\n03:41.152 --> 04:08.135\n基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有特定的法律效果他沒有法律的依據沒有這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛\n\n04:09.036 --> 04:18.844\n所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤\n\n04:20.015 --> 04:40.360\n委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦\n\n04:41.752 --> 05:09.866\n我們之所以有定定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛那以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚啦\n\n05:10.766 --> 05:35.995\n我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題不要大小眼做好\n\n05:38.049 --> 05:59.344\n這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎\n\n06:00.410 --> 06:27.515\n目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊\n\n06:28.840 --> 06:39.757\n主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?\n\n06:41.274 --> 07:00.601\n目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位的工會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法\n\n07:02.093 --> 07:20.214\n到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台\n\n07:21.155 --> 07:41.727\n除了狀況,又有多少人會受害?主委您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎?我會很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導,我們會記住。好,那最後啦,最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話啦。要接金管會主委沒那麼容易啊。\n\n07:42.728 --> 07:58.551\n我希望新的內閣針對批徒批這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.123,"end":11.084,"text":"謝謝主席,有請監管會主委。黃主委你好"},{"start":12.325,"end":34.934,"text":"主委好主委辛苦了即將要卸任了我相信在您監管會院內服務這麼久您的表現不管是金融界還是社會有一定的評價雖然您即將要卸任了有些事情我還是想要比較具體的問得清楚因為政府會輪替"},{"start":38.235,"end":47.282,"text":"閣員會換人金管會主委會換人但我們對於我們一般的民眾的保護應該是要持續的不會因為有換人的情況而產生變動"},{"start":53.877,"end":69.654,"text":"從上一次的國會到這一屆的國會以IMB的例子、IMB的這個弊案引發了風暴我們開始全面的去思考跟反省之前我在諮詢的時候也請教過您就是說2016年的時候我們本來P2P是要納管"},{"start":73.66,"end":91.707,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第15條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第1會期財政委員會及第17條條文修正草案：立法院第17條條文修正草案：立法院第18條文修正草案：立法院第19條文修正草案：立法院第20條文修正草案："},{"start":94.824,"end":117.865,"text":"澳洲各個國家、央行、我們的中央銀行很負責任地把它整理出來了不管是就P2P平台的建立規範或者是P2P平台它應該要有的主管機關或者是說P2P平台它的業者它設立了合準或登記我相信這份報告主委您應該也很熟嗎?我有拜讀謝謝是嗎?好"},{"start":119.571,"end":130.744,"text":"當然我知道啦 金管會到目前為止的立場是可能會考慮到說金管會自己目前本身的量能還是確定的沒有打算要把P2P納入監理的範圍嘛 對不對"},{"start":134.331,"end":156.209,"text":"現在當然因為去年行政院開過會有幾個方向那也曾給委員看過那幾個步驟了包括我們有定的主導原則、工會的自立但工會現在因為每個人的model不一樣所以在內政部那邊、經濟部那邊還造成還要再協調您就先針對問題回答就好了到目前為止的政策立場是沒有人要拿管嗎?"},{"start":157.967,"end":179.798,"text":"沒有用立法的方式去管沒有用立法的方式嘛因為我拜讀了監管會所推出的指導原則真的你們P2P借貸平台所推的指導原則我從頭到尾我詳細拜讀完了但作為一個法律人我最根本的問題是這個指導原則到底是什麼"},{"start":181.324,"end":200.204,"text":"這個指導原則是法規命令嗎?是行政規則嗎?他沒有法律的基礎嗎?我覺得這件事情把它講清楚很重要因為當指導原則沒有法律的基礎那我們接下來就要處理好幾個重要的問題第一個事情是那違反指導原則的法律效果是什麼?"},{"start":201.67,"end":220.471,"text":"因為我們105年開始基本是透過他們跟銀行之間的互動,透過銀行的間接的對他的這個封控這方面去做一個管理,是用這種方式去做的。對,所以我的問題成立,除了您還沒有回答,《委員制導原則》的法律效果是什麼?"},{"start":221.152,"end":248.135,"text":"基本上沒有特定的法律效果沒有特定的法律效果他沒有法律的依據沒有 這個事情我覺得讓所有的人知道是很重要的要不然大家接到訊息說儘管會有推指導原則大家會陷入一個錯誤的想像那個錯誤的想像就是你這個平台業者你要遵照這個指導原則你如果不遵照這個指導原則的話會如何如何嘛"},{"start":249.036,"end":258.844,"text":"所以很清楚的讓所有的人都知道這些平台業者啊他不遵守這個指導原則也不會怎麼樣嘛我的理解有沒有錯誤"},{"start":260.015,"end":280.36,"text":"委員這P2P是這樣可是允不允許我可以多講一兩句話可以請說我們在那個虛擬資產平台也是去年9月26號有訂那個指導原則目前也還沒有訂法但是VASP的工會業者是對我們的指導原則是遵循的而且我們檢查的時候也會依照那個原則去檢查我這樣說好了啦"},{"start":281.752,"end":309.866,"text":"我們之所以有定定規範的必要我們當然相信大部分的人會遵守規範之所以會制定規範是要處理那些不遵守規範的人嘛那以目前台灣P2P借貸平台也好債權轉讓也好的亂象我必須要跟主委講我個人的看法去期待這些業者會自己遵守這種自律規範我覺得是緣木求魚啦"},{"start":310.766,"end":335.995,"text":"我們比較實際的看法是當你不遵守當你不遵守我們應該有的規範的時候我們的法律效果是什麼給大家的保護是什麼這個才實際嘛 對不對主席你這個大小眼站起來你不喜歡看到我站起來伸展身體就對了最後一題不要大小眼做好"},{"start":338.049,"end":359.344,"text":"這件事情很重要你要跟社會大眾知道這個自律規範業者不遵守也不會怎麼樣我為什麼很重視這件事情就是另外一個你們一直說要成立商業同業工會要成立商業同業工會讓他們自律嘛那商業同業工會講到今天成立了嗎"},{"start":360.41,"end":387.515,"text":"目前還沒有就是說業者之間彼此意見分歧有的就排他他覺得你的模式跟我不符我不要跟你加入這個工會是有這個問題主委目前的狀態不就剛好印證了我剛講的話嗎這些業者啊連要不要成立商業工會啊誰主導啊誰可以參加誰不可以參加都可以鬧得不可開交啊還期待他們會遵守這個自律規範啊"},{"start":388.84,"end":399.757,"text":"主委你覺得我講的有沒有道理?委員指教的值得我們參考謝謝他們這樣繼續鬧下去主委依照您的判斷在您卸任以前這個商業同業公會成立的起來嗎?"},{"start":401.274,"end":420.601,"text":"目前的進展是還沒有到成立的時候就原地踏步嘛持續的在踏步嘛過了一年以後我可能在這個地方問下屆的主委說這個PVP業者商業同位的工會成立了嗎他還可能跟你的答案一模一樣這些業者大家有不一樣的看法"},{"start":422.093,"end":440.214,"text":"到現在都還沒有成立這個是為什麼我苦口婆心的講金管會真的針對這一件事情的規範立場是什麼或許要重新思考因為我真的很擔心我真的很擔心下一次不曉得又哪一個借貸平台"},{"start":441.155,"end":461.727,"text":"除了狀況,又有多少人會受害?主委您可以瞭解我為什麼說這樣的話嗎?我會很感謝委員對這件事情用這樣一個方式對我們的指導,我們會記住。好,那最後啦,最後可能也是公開的跟下一任可能的主委喊話啦。要接金管會主委沒那麼容易啊。"},{"start":462.728,"end":478.551,"text":"我希望新的內閣針對批徒批這件事情立場到底是什麼是不是還是採取我們不納管用自律規範的方式可能要先想清楚因為一上任以後馬上就要跟整個社會做報告好謝謝"}]}}}}