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\"end\": 445.285, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 445.285, \"end\": 445.305, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 447.274, \"end\": 447.514, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"巧\", \"start\": 447.514, \"end\": 447.634, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"芯\", \"start\": 447.634, \"end\": 447.835, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 447.835, \"end\": 447.915, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 447.915, \"end\": 447.995, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 447.995, \"end\": 448.015, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:02,916\n二號縣委主席馬英文前部長。來,邱部長請。\n\n2\n00:00:12,526 --> 00:00:40,377\n官員好部長好支持國防守護台灣我相信是全體國人的共識在支持國防預算的同時我們絕對沒有辦法容忍貪腐跟收受回扣的事情這個基本原則我相信部長同意同意我從2019年開始追蹤一個弊案那個時候在追蹤這個弊案的時候為了怕打草驚蛇所以我什麼話都沒有講我什麼話都沒有講\n\n3\n00:00:41,713 --> 00:00:54,525\n這什麼弊案呢?我們的國防部空子部在福興營區搞了一個30億的改建工程。國人都支持,林全還去辦動工。結果我們的高階將領負責這個營區改建的少將張大偉竟然收受賄賂2800萬。\n\n4\n00:01:06,602 --> 00:01:33,711\n這個案子我一路追蹤到2020年我離開立法院我持續追蹤新北地檢署第一次給他特殊的待遇做不起訴處分的時候我非常的震驚啊因為我掌握到的事情是罪證確鑿竟然還給他不起訴處分還好有年輕有勇氣的檢察官持續追蹤下去後來把他起訴了把他起訴了\n\n5\n00:01:35,106 --> 00:01:54,623\n所呈現出來的犯罪結構這個不肖的軍人這個不肖的少將就是從國家吸血我為什麼說從國家吸血他透過減少評訴減少施工的單位也就是少做事但錢一樣給\n\n6\n00:01:55,936 --> 00:02:21,609\n然後讓承包商可以從裡面去套不法的贓款出來大意講好的是4500萬一個工程張大文一個人4500萬拿了2800萬了以後他被羈押檢察官問他說錢到哪裡去他說丟丟到火爐全部把它燒了沒有人相信這樣的說辭\n\n7\n00:02:24,406 --> 00:02:40,904\n司法的歸司法我在意的是國防部面對這件事情的態度國防部後來在2021年8月的時候完成了行政調查報告我那個時候回到民間社會我之前有個問題非常困惑這個行政調查報告為何不公開請部長\n\n8\n00:02:43,957 --> 00:03:11,701\n我跟委員報告這案子我到任以後我發覺講說這個裡面知識體大後來有很尊重他們的調查方法但我第一個做法講說他依法就辦受刑事處罰這個沒有問題這個我跟部長有共識現在我關心的是我們國軍在處理這件事情的時候我們內部的行政程序是怎麼處理的我第一個問題是這樣的行政調查報告為什麼不願意公佈\n\n9\n00:03:13,779 --> 00:03:39,790\n請法律師跟您做說明好不好是委員好我法律師司長我跟委員簡單報告這個案子我們確實有做了一個行政調查那行政調查的相關的資料我們有跟當時關切的委員我們都有主意去說沒有啊但問題是這個行政調查報告為什麼不會讓社會知道沒有什麼國防機密在裡面啊完全沒有國防機密在裡面啊還是我有什麼誤會裡面有國防機密被編密件所以不能公開\n\n10\n00:03:40,390 --> 00:04:04,184\n我跟委員報告我們跟當時所有關切的委員我們都有足以去說明這兩回事嘛是社會大眾有沒有資格權利報告委員我們這一次在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面的專案調查也有特別寫類似將來像這種東西我們有個法源依據我們就會把它做出來你先不要跟我講以後的事情現在我在跟你討論的是現在的法規範到底有什麼理由不公開這是我的問題\n\n11\n00:04:05,626 --> 00:04:28,348\n你到現在還是沒有針對問題回答?所以現在就是沒有公開嗎?只有關切的委員有資格看到公民社會沒有資格看到你的立場是這樣嗎?來我繼續往下問你們這個國防部法紀調查結案報告整本報告我全部敗讀啦\n\n12\n00:04:30,394 --> 00:04:50,788\n這個報告是以什麼當作基礎是以當初第一次放水的新北地檢署檢察官的不起訴處分為基礎後來起訴啦現在一審甚至判刑啦你們這個行政調查報告的基礎已經完全改變了有重新做行政調查報告嗎請教部長\n\n13\n00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,623\n公開讓社會知道,否則的話最起碼社法法制委員會、外交國防委員會所有的委員通通發因為這個報告需要接受社會檢證你連有重新做調查報告這件事情整個社會都不知道\n\n14\n00:05:19,295 --> 00:05:20,956\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n15\n00:05:38,553 --> 00:05:56,101\n我覺得最離譜的事情是什麼有一個關鍵的核心會議就是那個貪贓枉法的張大偉他在2017年4月24號的時候主動召集了會議召集會議做什麼事情減少施作的評訴減少施作的項目\n\n16\n00:05:57,282 --> 00:06:18,993\n但我看了調查報告我看了半天啊為什麼這麼重要的會議可以沒有會議紀錄也沒有簽辦公文是有會議紀錄還沒有浮上水面還是根本沒有會議紀錄請回答報委員詳細的狀況因為有一段時間我要回去看那個報告但我記得確實當時有會議有的會議沒有會議紀錄確實有這種這樣子的會議這麼重要的會議沒有會議紀錄正常嗎請部長報委員當然不正常當然不正常\n\n17\n00:06:25,936 --> 00:06:29,838\n審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員\n\n18\n00:06:55,089 --> 00:06:59,771\n出了這麼大的事情,調查報告不公開,檢討報告有做嗎?\n\n19\n00:07:01,971 --> 00:07:25,305\n檢討報告有做嗎?當初有做,後來因為我們很多限於法定規章講在檢檢當中,主席現在站起來了,我要尊重主席,還有其他後面登記發言的委員,但這個案子我會繼續追下去。請部長拜託,所有相關你們更新的調查報告,包括檢討報告,包括後面處分的哪些人,一個禮拜之內書面回覆可以嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:27,274 --> 00:07:28,015\n徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n700\t2916\t二號縣委主席馬英文前部長。來,邱部長請。\n12526\t40377\t官員好部長好支持國防守護台灣我相信是全體國人的共識在支持國防預算的同時我們絕對沒有辦法容忍貪腐跟收受回扣的事情這個基本原則我相信部長同意同意我從2019年開始追蹤一個弊案那個時候在追蹤這個弊案的時候為了怕打草驚蛇所以我什麼話都沒有講我什麼話都沒有講\n41713\t54525\t這什麼弊案呢?我們的國防部空子部在福興營區搞了一個30億的改建工程。國人都支持,林全還去辦動工。結果我們的高階將領負責這個營區改建的少將張大偉竟然收受賄賂2800萬。\n66602\t93711\t這個案子我一路追蹤到2020年我離開立法院我持續追蹤新北地檢署第一次給他特殊的待遇做不起訴處分的時候我非常的震驚啊因為我掌握到的事情是罪證確鑿竟然還給他不起訴處分還好有年輕有勇氣的檢察官持續追蹤下去後來把他起訴了把他起訴了\n95106\t114623\t所呈現出來的犯罪結構這個不肖的軍人這個不肖的少將就是從國家吸血我為什麼說從國家吸血他透過減少評訴減少施工的單位也就是少做事但錢一樣給\n115936\t141609\t然後讓承包商可以從裡面去套不法的贓款出來大意講好的是4500萬一個工程張大文一個人4500萬拿了2800萬了以後他被羈押檢察官問他說錢到哪裡去他說丟丟到火爐全部把它燒了沒有人相信這樣的說辭\n144406\t160904\t司法的歸司法我在意的是國防部面對這件事情的態度國防部後來在2021年8月的時候完成了行政調查報告我那個時候回到民間社會我之前有個問題非常困惑這個行政調查報告為何不公開請部長\n163957\t191701\t我跟委員報告這案子我到任以後我發覺講說這個裡面知識體大後來有很尊重他們的調查方法但我第一個做法講說他依法就辦受刑事處罰這個沒有問題這個我跟部長有共識現在我關心的是我們國軍在處理這件事情的時候我們內部的行政程序是怎麼處理的我第一個問題是這樣的行政調查報告為什麼不願意公佈\n193779\t219790\t請法律師跟您做說明好不好是委員好我法律師司長我跟委員簡單報告這個案子我們確實有做了一個行政調查那行政調查的相關的資料我們有跟當時關切的委員我們都有主意去說沒有啊但問題是這個行政調查報告為什麼不會讓社會知道沒有什麼國防機密在裡面啊完全沒有國防機密在裡面啊還是我有什麼誤會裡面有國防機密被編密件所以不能公開\n220390\t244184\t我跟委員報告我們跟當時所有關切的委員我們都有足以去說明這兩回事嘛是社會大眾有沒有資格權利報告委員我們這一次在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面的專案調查也有特別寫類似將來像這種東西我們有個法源依據我們就會把它做出來你先不要跟我講以後的事情現在我在跟你討論的是現在的法規範到底有什麼理由不公開這是我的問題\n245626\t268348\t你到現在還是沒有針對問題回答?所以現在就是沒有公開嗎?只有關切的委員有資格看到公民社會沒有資格看到你的立場是這樣嗎?來我繼續往下問你們這個國防部法紀調查結案報告整本報告我全部敗讀啦\n270394\t290788\t這個報告是以什麼當作基礎是以當初第一次放水的新北地檢署檢察官的不起訴處分為基礎後來起訴啦現在一審甚至判刑啦你們這個行政調查報告的基礎已經完全改變了有重新做行政調查報告嗎請教部長\n293440\t299623\t公開讓社會知道,否則的話最起碼社法法制委員會、外交國防委員會所有的委員通通發因為這個報告需要接受社會檢證你連有重新做調查報告這件事情整個社會都不知道\n319295\t320956\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n338553\t356101\t我覺得最離譜的事情是什麼有一個關鍵的核心會議就是那個貪贓枉法的張大偉他在2017年4月24號的時候主動召集了會議召集會議做什麼事情減少施作的評訴減少施作的項目\n357282\t378993\t但我看了調查報告我看了半天啊為什麼這麼重要的會議可以沒有會議紀錄也沒有簽辦公文是有會議紀錄還沒有浮上水面還是根本沒有會議紀錄請回答報委員詳細的狀況因為有一段時間我要回去看那個報告但我記得確實當時有會議有的會議沒有會議紀錄確實有這種這樣子的會議這麼重要的會議沒有會議紀錄正常嗎請部長報委員當然不正常當然不正常\n385936\t389838\t審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員\n415089\t419771\t出了這麼大的事情,調查報告不公開,檢討報告有做嗎?\n421971\t445305\t檢討報告有做嗎?當初有做,後來因為我們很多限於法定規章講在檢檢當中,主席現在站起來了,我要尊重主席,還有其他後面登記發言的委員,但這個案子我會繼續追下去。請部長拜託,所有相關你們更新的調查報告,包括檢討報告,包括後面處分的哪些人,一個禮拜之內書面回覆可以嗎?\n447274\t448015\t徐巧芯等20人擬具\n","txt":"二號縣委主席馬英文前部長。來,邱部長請。\n官員好部長好支持國防守護台灣我相信是全體國人的共識在支持國防預算的同時我們絕對沒有辦法容忍貪腐跟收受回扣的事情這個基本原則我相信部長同意同意我從2019年開始追蹤一個弊案那個時候在追蹤這個弊案的時候為了怕打草驚蛇所以我什麼話都沒有講我什麼話都沒有講\n這什麼弊案呢?我們的國防部空子部在福興營區搞了一個30億的改建工程。國人都支持,林全還去辦動工。結果我們的高階將領負責這個營區改建的少將張大偉竟然收受賄賂2800萬。\n這個案子我一路追蹤到2020年我離開立法院我持續追蹤新北地檢署第一次給他特殊的待遇做不起訴處分的時候我非常的震驚啊因為我掌握到的事情是罪證確鑿竟然還給他不起訴處分還好有年輕有勇氣的檢察官持續追蹤下去後來把他起訴了把他起訴了\n所呈現出來的犯罪結構這個不肖的軍人這個不肖的少將就是從國家吸血我為什麼說從國家吸血他透過減少評訴減少施工的單位也就是少做事但錢一樣給\n然後讓承包商可以從裡面去套不法的贓款出來大意講好的是4500萬一個工程張大文一個人4500萬拿了2800萬了以後他被羈押檢察官問他說錢到哪裡去他說丟丟到火爐全部把它燒了沒有人相信這樣的說辭\n司法的歸司法我在意的是國防部面對這件事情的態度國防部後來在2021年8月的時候完成了行政調查報告我那個時候回到民間社會我之前有個問題非常困惑這個行政調查報告為何不公開請部長\n我跟委員報告這案子我到任以後我發覺講說這個裡面知識體大後來有很尊重他們的調查方法但我第一個做法講說他依法就辦受刑事處罰這個沒有問題這個我跟部長有共識現在我關心的是我們國軍在處理這件事情的時候我們內部的行政程序是怎麼處理的我第一個問題是這樣的行政調查報告為什麼不願意公佈\n請法律師跟您做說明好不好是委員好我法律師司長我跟委員簡單報告這個案子我們確實有做了一個行政調查那行政調查的相關的資料我們有跟當時關切的委員我們都有主意去說沒有啊但問題是這個行政調查報告為什麼不會讓社會知道沒有什麼國防機密在裡面啊完全沒有國防機密在裡面啊還是我有什麼誤會裡面有國防機密被編密件所以不能公開\n我跟委員報告我們跟當時所有關切的委員我們都有足以去說明這兩回事嘛是社會大眾有沒有資格權利報告委員我們這一次在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面的專案調查也有特別寫類似將來像這種東西我們有個法源依據我們就會把它做出來你先不要跟我講以後的事情現在我在跟你討論的是現在的法規範到底有什麼理由不公開這是我的問題\n你到現在還是沒有針對問題回答?所以現在就是沒有公開嗎?只有關切的委員有資格看到公民社會沒有資格看到你的立場是這樣嗎?來我繼續往下問你們這個國防部法紀調查結案報告整本報告我全部敗讀啦\n這個報告是以什麼當作基礎是以當初第一次放水的新北地檢署檢察官的不起訴處分為基礎後來起訴啦現在一審甚至判刑啦你們這個行政調查報告的基礎已經完全改變了有重新做行政調查報告嗎請教部長\n公開讓社會知道,否則的話最起碼社法法制委員會、外交國防委員會所有的委員通通發因為這個報告需要接受社會檢證你連有重新做調查報告這件事情整個社會都不知道\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n我覺得最離譜的事情是什麼有一個關鍵的核心會議就是那個貪贓枉法的張大偉他在2017年4月24號的時候主動召集了會議召集會議做什麼事情減少施作的評訴減少施作的項目\n但我看了調查報告我看了半天啊為什麼這麼重要的會議可以沒有會議紀錄也沒有簽辦公文是有會議紀錄還沒有浮上水面還是根本沒有會議紀錄請回答報委員詳細的狀況因為有一段時間我要回去看那個報告但我記得確實當時有會議有的會議沒有會議紀錄確實有這種這樣子的會議這麼重要的會議沒有會議紀錄正常嗎請部長報委員當然不正常當然不正常\n審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員\n出了這麼大的事情,調查報告不公開,檢討報告有做嗎?\n檢討報告有做嗎?當初有做,後來因為我們很多限於法定規章講在檢檢當中,主席現在站起來了,我要尊重主席,還有其他後面登記發言的委員,但這個案子我會繼續追下去。請部長拜託,所有相關你們更新的調查報告,包括檢討報告,包括後面處分的哪些人,一個禮拜之內書面回覆可以嗎?\n徐巧芯等20人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.700 --> 00:02.916\n二號縣委主席馬英文前部長。來,邱部長請。\n\n00:12.526 --> 00:40.377\n官員好部長好支持國防守護台灣我相信是全體國人的共識在支持國防預算的同時我們絕對沒有辦法容忍貪腐跟收受回扣的事情這個基本原則我相信部長同意同意我從2019年開始追蹤一個弊案那個時候在追蹤這個弊案的時候為了怕打草驚蛇所以我什麼話都沒有講我什麼話都沒有講\n\n00:41.713 --> 00:54.525\n這什麼弊案呢?我們的國防部空子部在福興營區搞了一個30億的改建工程。國人都支持,林全還去辦動工。結果我們的高階將領負責這個營區改建的少將張大偉竟然收受賄賂2800萬。\n\n01:06.602 --> 01:33.711\n這個案子我一路追蹤到2020年我離開立法院我持續追蹤新北地檢署第一次給他特殊的待遇做不起訴處分的時候我非常的震驚啊因為我掌握到的事情是罪證確鑿竟然還給他不起訴處分還好有年輕有勇氣的檢察官持續追蹤下去後來把他起訴了把他起訴了\n\n01:35.106 --> 01:54.623\n所呈現出來的犯罪結構這個不肖的軍人這個不肖的少將就是從國家吸血我為什麼說從國家吸血他透過減少評訴減少施工的單位也就是少做事但錢一樣給\n\n01:55.936 --> 02:21.609\n然後讓承包商可以從裡面去套不法的贓款出來大意講好的是4500萬一個工程張大文一個人4500萬拿了2800萬了以後他被羈押檢察官問他說錢到哪裡去他說丟丟到火爐全部把它燒了沒有人相信這樣的說辭\n\n02:24.406 --> 02:40.904\n司法的歸司法我在意的是國防部面對這件事情的態度國防部後來在2021年8月的時候完成了行政調查報告我那個時候回到民間社會我之前有個問題非常困惑這個行政調查報告為何不公開請部長\n\n02:43.957 --> 03:11.701\n我跟委員報告這案子我到任以後我發覺講說這個裡面知識體大後來有很尊重他們的調查方法但我第一個做法講說他依法就辦受刑事處罰這個沒有問題這個我跟部長有共識現在我關心的是我們國軍在處理這件事情的時候我們內部的行政程序是怎麼處理的我第一個問題是這樣的行政調查報告為什麼不願意公佈\n\n03:13.779 --> 03:39.790\n請法律師跟您做說明好不好是委員好我法律師司長我跟委員簡單報告這個案子我們確實有做了一個行政調查那行政調查的相關的資料我們有跟當時關切的委員我們都有主意去說沒有啊但問題是這個行政調查報告為什麼不會讓社會知道沒有什麼國防機密在裡面啊完全沒有國防機密在裡面啊還是我有什麼誤會裡面有國防機密被編密件所以不能公開\n\n03:40.390 --> 04:04.184\n我跟委員報告我們跟當時所有關切的委員我們都有足以去說明這兩回事嘛是社會大眾有沒有資格權利報告委員我們這一次在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面的專案調查也有特別寫類似將來像這種東西我們有個法源依據我們就會把它做出來你先不要跟我講以後的事情現在我在跟你討論的是現在的法規範到底有什麼理由不公開這是我的問題\n\n04:05.626 --> 04:28.348\n你到現在還是沒有針對問題回答?所以現在就是沒有公開嗎?只有關切的委員有資格看到公民社會沒有資格看到你的立場是這樣嗎?來我繼續往下問你們這個國防部法紀調查結案報告整本報告我全部敗讀啦\n\n04:30.394 --> 04:50.788\n這個報告是以什麼當作基礎是以當初第一次放水的新北地檢署檢察官的不起訴處分為基礎後來起訴啦現在一審甚至判刑啦你們這個行政調查報告的基礎已經完全改變了有重新做行政調查報告嗎請教部長\n\n04:53.440 --> 04:59.623\n公開讓社會知道,否則的話最起碼社法法制委員會、外交國防委員會所有的委員通通發因為這個報告需要接受社會檢證你連有重新做調查報告這件事情整個社會都不知道\n\n05:19.295 --> 05:20.956\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n05:38.553 --> 05:56.101\n我覺得最離譜的事情是什麼有一個關鍵的核心會議就是那個貪贓枉法的張大偉他在2017年4月24號的時候主動召集了會議召集會議做什麼事情減少施作的評訴減少施作的項目\n\n05:57.282 --> 06:18.993\n但我看了調查報告我看了半天啊為什麼這麼重要的會議可以沒有會議紀錄也沒有簽辦公文是有會議紀錄還沒有浮上水面還是根本沒有會議紀錄請回答報委員詳細的狀況因為有一段時間我要回去看那個報告但我記得確實當時有會議有的會議沒有會議紀錄確實有這種這樣子的會議這麼重要的會議沒有會議紀錄正常嗎請部長報委員當然不正常當然不正常\n\n06:25.936 --> 06:29.838\n審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員\n\n06:55.089 --> 06:59.771\n出了這麼大的事情,調查報告不公開,檢討報告有做嗎?\n\n07:01.971 --> 07:25.305\n檢討報告有做嗎?當初有做,後來因為我們很多限於法定規章講在檢檢當中,主席現在站起來了,我要尊重主席,還有其他後面登記發言的委員,但這個案子我會繼續追下去。請部長拜託,所有相關你們更新的調查報告,包括檢討報告,包括後面處分的哪些人,一個禮拜之內書面回覆可以嗎?\n\n07:27.274 --> 07:28.015\n徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.7,"end":2.916,"text":"二號縣委主席馬英文前部長。來,邱部長請。"},{"start":12.526,"end":40.377,"text":"官員好部長好支持國防守護台灣我相信是全體國人的共識在支持國防預算的同時我們絕對沒有辦法容忍貪腐跟收受回扣的事情這個基本原則我相信部長同意同意我從2019年開始追蹤一個弊案那個時候在追蹤這個弊案的時候為了怕打草驚蛇所以我什麼話都沒有講我什麼話都沒有講"},{"start":41.713,"end":54.525,"text":"這什麼弊案呢?我們的國防部空子部在福興營區搞了一個30億的改建工程。國人都支持,林全還去辦動工。結果我們的高階將領負責這個營區改建的少將張大偉竟然收受賄賂2800萬。"},{"start":66.602,"end":93.711,"text":"這個案子我一路追蹤到2020年我離開立法院我持續追蹤新北地檢署第一次給他特殊的待遇做不起訴處分的時候我非常的震驚啊因為我掌握到的事情是罪證確鑿竟然還給他不起訴處分還好有年輕有勇氣的檢察官持續追蹤下去後來把他起訴了把他起訴了"},{"start":95.106,"end":114.623,"text":"所呈現出來的犯罪結構這個不肖的軍人這個不肖的少將就是從國家吸血我為什麼說從國家吸血他透過減少評訴減少施工的單位也就是少做事但錢一樣給"},{"start":115.936,"end":141.609,"text":"然後讓承包商可以從裡面去套不法的贓款出來大意講好的是4500萬一個工程張大文一個人4500萬拿了2800萬了以後他被羈押檢察官問他說錢到哪裡去他說丟丟到火爐全部把它燒了沒有人相信這樣的說辭"},{"start":144.406,"end":160.904,"text":"司法的歸司法我在意的是國防部面對這件事情的態度國防部後來在2021年8月的時候完成了行政調查報告我那個時候回到民間社會我之前有個問題非常困惑這個行政調查報告為何不公開請部長"},{"start":163.957,"end":191.701,"text":"我跟委員報告這案子我到任以後我發覺講說這個裡面知識體大後來有很尊重他們的調查方法但我第一個做法講說他依法就辦受刑事處罰這個沒有問題這個我跟部長有共識現在我關心的是我們國軍在處理這件事情的時候我們內部的行政程序是怎麼處理的我第一個問題是這樣的行政調查報告為什麼不願意公佈"},{"start":193.779,"end":219.79,"text":"請法律師跟您做說明好不好是委員好我法律師司長我跟委員簡單報告這個案子我們確實有做了一個行政調查那行政調查的相關的資料我們有跟當時關切的委員我們都有主意去說沒有啊但問題是這個行政調查報告為什麼不會讓社會知道沒有什麼國防機密在裡面啊完全沒有國防機密在裡面啊還是我有什麼誤會裡面有國防機密被編密件所以不能公開"},{"start":220.39,"end":244.184,"text":"我跟委員報告我們跟當時所有關切的委員我們都有足以去說明這兩回事嘛是社會大眾有沒有資格權利報告委員我們這一次在陸海空軍懲罰法裡面的專案調查也有特別寫類似將來像這種東西我們有個法源依據我們就會把它做出來你先不要跟我講以後的事情現在我在跟你討論的是現在的法規範到底有什麼理由不公開這是我的問題"},{"start":245.626,"end":268.348,"text":"你到現在還是沒有針對問題回答?所以現在就是沒有公開嗎?只有關切的委員有資格看到公民社會沒有資格看到你的立場是這樣嗎?來我繼續往下問你們這個國防部法紀調查結案報告整本報告我全部敗讀啦"},{"start":270.394,"end":290.788,"text":"這個報告是以什麼當作基礎是以當初第一次放水的新北地檢署檢察官的不起訴處分為基礎後來起訴啦現在一審甚至判刑啦你們這個行政調查報告的基礎已經完全改變了有重新做行政調查報告嗎請教部長"},{"start":293.44,"end":299.623,"text":"公開讓社會知道,否則的話最起碼社法法制委員會、外交國防委員會所有的委員通通發因為這個報告需要接受社會檢證你連有重新做調查報告這件事情整個社會都不知道"},{"start":319.295,"end":320.956,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具"},{"start":338.553,"end":356.101,"text":"我覺得最離譜的事情是什麼有一個關鍵的核心會議就是那個貪贓枉法的張大偉他在2017年4月24號的時候主動召集了會議召集會議做什麼事情減少施作的評訴減少施作的項目"},{"start":357.282,"end":378.993,"text":"但我看了調查報告我看了半天啊為什麼這麼重要的會議可以沒有會議紀錄也沒有簽辦公文是有會議紀錄還沒有浮上水面還是根本沒有會議紀錄請回答報委員詳細的狀況因為有一段時間我要回去看那個報告但我記得確實當時有會議有的會議沒有會議紀錄確實有這種這樣子的會議這麼重要的會議沒有會議紀錄正常嗎請部長報委員當然不正常當然不正常"},{"start":385.936,"end":389.838,"text":"審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員"},{"start":415.089,"end":419.771,"text":"出了這麼大的事情,調查報告不公開,檢討報告有做嗎?"},{"start":421.971,"end":445.305,"text":"檢討報告有做嗎?當初有做,後來因為我們很多限於法定規章講在檢檢當中,主席現在站起來了,我要尊重主席,還有其他後面登記發言的委員,但這個案子我會繼續追下去。請部長拜託,所有相關你們更新的調查報告,包括檢討報告,包括後面處分的哪些人,一個禮拜之內書面回覆可以嗎?"},{"start":447.274,"end":448.015,"text":"徐巧芯等20人擬具"}]}}}}