{"id":151607,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151607","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3e99a080a9d4af0fd5a1f541440a910baeadb1108e4b8443214d49caf4f3f18ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:46:06 - 09:56:53","影片長度":"00:10:47","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":647,"end_time":"2024-04-24T09:56:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T09:46:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":280,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時46分）謝謝主席。我們有請陳主委。"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：萬委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：主委早。我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震發生，台電坦言部分電廠的電力系統有受到影響。請問一下主委，目前我們核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況？"],["陳主任委員東陽：0403地震的時候……"],["萬委員美玲：到現在。"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出，那麼這個部分大概有3,600公升，但是我們很快就清理完畢，也有除污，到目前大概都還安全，那麼我們……"],["萬委員美玲：所以沒有其他受損的狀況嘛？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，沒有。"],["萬委員美玲：這個水溢出的狀況，待會本席後面再來跟你討論。其實根據4月5日的狀況，我看到4月5日在運轉中的核三廠二號機降載解聯，這件事情跟0403大地震有沒有關係？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。他們是定期在維修或者是檢視，跟核三廠沒有關係，0403對核三廠的影響是極小的。"],["萬委員美玲：好，所以也是沒有影響嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["萬委員美玲：再來，我們來討論一下，我們看一下表格，根據台電的資料顯示，核一廠、核二廠、核三廠的耐震能力分別是0.51g、0.67g、0.72g，我們可以看表格上有。在4月3日大地震，我們可以看到核一廠、核二廠跟核三廠圍阻體的底層，地震儀測得的最大加速度值分別是0.0281g、0.0338g、0.0125g，為什麼講這個數字？目前這三座核電廠，尤其是運轉中的核三廠，我想請教一下，依照剛剛那個數值，我們看到地震以來好像連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到，我們從運轉中的核三廠耐震度來看，我們回頭檢討有沒有問題、有沒有需要加強及補強的地方？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這主要還是要看當地的震度，核三廠在0403地震中顯然是影響極小，主要還是在花蓮跟北部的部分，那麼事實上……"],["萬委員美玲：主委剛剛說要看震度，那是什麼樣的震度會有影響？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這一次的地震，在核一、核二廠大概是0.02到0.03，但是在核三少了非常多，事實上在我們的網頁都有公告，這也就是為什麼核三在地震的當下還是持續運行，但是核一、核二廠也很lucky，因為新北市即使是5弱，第5級的弱，但是在當地我們測到的地震儀還是……"],["萬委員美玲：好，主委，我這樣聽您的回復應該是說目前沒有很大的影響，對不對？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，沒有。"],["萬委員美玲：現在其實我們聽到很多民間團體有一種說法，他們說因為臺灣現在位處於地震帶，所以他們認為就不應該使用核電廠，主委認同這樣的看法嗎？而且您剛剛有說到關於現在核三廠的耐震度，目前這些震度看起來沒有太大的影響，那麼對於這樣民間團體的說法，您怎麼看待？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這是有關於發生地震的地方，如果震央就是在北部，那麼很顯然是有很大的風險，這其實是震央跟當地地質的問題，這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我，我跟他說自然災害是一個風險，那麼其實福島……"],["萬委員美玲：不是啦！主委，當然這是有風險，但是您現在其實也沒有辦法去看什麼樣的震度對核電廠會有傷害，我看目前沒有這樣的數值，所以本席很簡單的問您，如果我們僅僅是因為臺灣地處地震帶，所以不應該使用核電，這樣的一個看法，您到底贊不贊同？"],["陳主任委員東陽：要非常小心，我們要謹慎小心來做……"],["萬委員美玲：謹慎小心？好。"],["陳主任委員東陽：不是不能……"],["萬委員美玲：好，謹慎小心。接下來，我想請教一下，核安會的官網當中有一個動態訊息，其中有一個即時資訊，這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過？"],["陳主任委員東陽：有。"],["萬委員美玲：有看過嘛？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是。"],["萬委員美玲：我發現其實這一次在地震之後，因為是即時資訊，我不太理解這個「即時」到底是多短的時間叫即時，有大概十幾分鐘、13分鐘就把資訊公布出來，有的時候也大概要1個小時左右才能夠出來，我不理解為什麼這個落差會這麼大，這是第一個。第二個，主委剛剛說您有看到，我舉一個例子，4月23日凌晨的時候，我們看到凌晨0點9分發布了一個資訊，上面寫「今(23)日23時56分」地震的資訊，這個有沒有錯？主委，這有沒有錯？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個應該是有錯。"],["萬委員美玲：錯在哪裡？"],["陳主任委員東陽：幾點錯了。"],["萬委員美玲：是嘛！所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛！或許有人會說這個是小事情，但是主委，這個不能說是小事情，因為你們掌管核安，我覺得任何一個資訊都是要嚴謹、要正確，何況這是一個即時資訊，速度不一怎麼會叫即時？有的要1個小時，而且還會有錯誤，能不能說明一下？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題。"],["萬委員美玲：為什麼有的是13分鐘即時資訊就可以出來，有的要到一個多小時，為什麼沒有標準？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想這可能是一個例外，我們會來檢視一下，到底是什麼地方出了問題，再跟委員回復。"],["萬委員美玲：好，主委，我想真的要檢視一下，既然是即時，能夠做到有的時候13分鐘、15分鐘，是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上，不是有的時候搞了一個多小時，這還叫即時嗎？好不好？","接下來，我想再請教一下主委，剛才提到燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出，我要請教一下，燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質？有沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["萬委員美玲：有嘛！所以燃料池水因為地震溢出，這算不算一種異常？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想這個……"],["萬委員美玲：算不算？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是啊。"],["萬委員美玲：是嘛！我們看到4月3日12時24分發布的即時資訊上面寫到「今（03）日7時58分臺灣地區有感地震，各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果，機組均維持正常運作，核安會持續監控核電廠運作安全」，沒有異狀喔！但是你的內文又怎麼講？你的內文又說「核一廠巡查發現兩部機用過燃料有池水溢出」、「溢出水量各約1,300及2,200公升」。我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也講到「清華大學水池式反應器及其核子原（燃）料貯存場所未受影響，核安會持續監控設施安全」，可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出。我希望我們的即時資訊，剛剛本席講過了，第一個，我們能夠快要快；第二個，資訊一定要正確；第三個，絕對不要粉飾太平。如果像您剛剛所說的，這個池水是有含放射性物質的，而且它溢出也算是異常，為什麼一開始我們在給民眾的即時資訊是一種粉飾太平，告訴大家這沒有任何關係，為什麼？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核電廠人員要去檢視，他是會有一點點時間的落差，所以一發生地震當下的時間……"],["萬委員美玲：主委，如果有一點落差，你就不應該粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊！你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊？求快也要求正確嘛！所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，沒問題。"],["萬委員美玲：這務必一定要修正，不可以有錯誤的資訊。","最後，本席在3月28日的時候有特別跟您提到，現在日本福島第一核電廠排放的含氚廢水，除了氚之外還有碳-14跟碘-129，但是我們目前是沒有檢測能力，你也說今年年底會完成碳-14的檢測技術、明年年底會完成碘-129。我想請教一下，為什麼我們完成一個檢測技術的研發要花一年的時間？是真的非常困難，還是人力上有問題？"],["陳主任委員東陽：它是有一定的難度。"],["萬委員美玲：有一定的難度？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我請陳主任來說明。"],["萬委員美玲：沒關係，如果有一定的難度，當然需要這樣的時間，我們要去克服。但是現在有一個很大的問題，以本席瞭解，我們看到目前輻射監測中心負責研發碳-14跟碘-129的檢測技術人員，他們除了這個研發之外，同時還要負責放射性物質的檢測工作。現在全部的正式人員只有10位，對嗎？"],["陳主任志平：碳-14這一塊有12位。"],["萬委員美玲：有12位，好。你是不是還有加上外聘的？我剛剛指的是正式人員。"],["陳主任志平：對，有部分是計畫人員。"],["萬委員美玲：好。我不管你今天是10位、12位、13位，你知道這個人力其實真的非常少，你剛剛就說過了，我們這些相關研發、檢測的技術其實有它的困難度在，這樣的人力夠嗎？主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：目前是可以啦！我們會來檢視，我會跟陳主任再討論一下，如果有需要我們看看是不是有員額，因為公務人員的人力其實是有一定的限制。"],["萬委員美玲：但是像專業人力該加就要加，我想主委，對於日本排放的含氚廢水，你都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或低於這個標準的，但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的一個標準，所以你們任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人？我想今天我們要來談的是，該補充的人力要補充，該給正確的資訊要給正確，我們希望主委加油，好不好？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，謝謝。"],["主席（林委員宜瑾）：好，謝謝萬美玲委員。","我們接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葉元之","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","范雲","張嘉郡","吳春城"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會\n列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查 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19:25:07","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 19:25:38","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151607 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:25:38","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案'"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:25:59","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:25:59","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 6.766, \"end\": 10.348, \"text\": \"謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 6.766, \"end\": 6.806, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 6.806, \"end\": 6.906, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 6.906, \"end\": 7.006, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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\"現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 199.544, \"end\": 199.724, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 199.724, \"end\": 199.964, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 199.964, \"end\": 200.124, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 200.124, \"end\": 200.344, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 200.344, \"end\": 200.464, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 200.464, \"end\": 200.544, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 200.544, \"end\": 200.644, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 200.644, \"end\": 200.764, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 200.764, \"end\": 200.824, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 200.824, \"end\": 202.145, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": 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\"前\", \"start\": 216.168, \"end\": 216.408, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.408, \"end\": 216.649, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 216.649, \"end\": 217.089, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"陣\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 217.089, \"end\": 217.269, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 217.269, \"end\": 217.529, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 217.529, \"end\": 217.829, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 217.829, \"end\": 217.929, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 217.929, \"end\": 218.029, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 218.029, \"end\": 218.189, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 218.189, \"end\": 218.309, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 218.309, \"end\": 218.389, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 218.389, \"end\": 218.989, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 218.989, \"end\": 219.109, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 219.109, \"end\": 219.129, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 219.129, \"end\": 219.209, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 219.209, \"end\": 219.249, \"score\": 0.351}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.249, \"end\": 219.269, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 219.269, \"end\": 219.289, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 219.289, \"end\": 219.389, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 219.389, \"end\": 219.409, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 219.409, \"end\": 219.509, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 219.509, \"end\": 219.529, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 222.998, \"end\": 244.904, \"text\": \"那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說\", 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{\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 242.683, \"end\": 242.863, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 242.863, \"end\": 243.043, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 243.043, \"end\": 243.723, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 243.723, \"end\": 244.064, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 244.064, \"end\": 244.644, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 244.644, \"end\": 244.784, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 244.784, \"end\": 244.884, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 244.884, \"end\": 244.904, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 246.846, \"end\": 272.993, \"text\": \"自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦 主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 246.846, \"end\": 246.946, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 246.946, \"end\": 247.346, 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00:01:11,335\n所以沒有其他受損的狀況嗎?這個水溢出的狀況待會本席在後面再來跟你討論那現在我們來看到其實根據這個4月5號我看到4月5號在運轉中的這個核三長二號機降載解連那這件事情跟這個403大地震有沒有關係?\n\n4\n00:01:12,606 --> 00:01:22,171\n沒有他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核酸廠沒有關係0403對核酸廠的影響是有影響的再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有\n\n5\n00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,303\n4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一測得的最大加速值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到\n\n6\n00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:23,768\n目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方\n\n7\n00:02:26,336 --> 00:02:43,263\n這個主要還是要看當地的正度核酸廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核運廠那主任您剛剛說要看正度那是什麼樣的正度會有影響呀\n\n8\n00:02:44,787 --> 00:03:01,977\n這一次的地震在核一核二場大概是0.02到0.03我想核一核二但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行\n\n9\n00:03:03,938 --> 00:03:17,603\n但是合一合二場也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是主委我這樣聽您的回覆應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響對不對\n\n10\n00:03:19,544 --> 00:03:39,529\n現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待\n\n11\n00:03:42,998 --> 00:04:04,904\n那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說\n\n12\n00:04:06,846 --> 00:04:32,993\n自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊\n\n13\n00:04:34,301 --> 00:04:50,620\n要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有\n\n14\n00:04:52,145 --> 00:04:52,285\n李慧琼議員李慧琼議員\n\n15\n00:05:15,506 --> 00:05:22,929\n不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊\n\n16\n00:05:34,366 --> 00:06:01,119\n主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶齁我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下\n\n17\n00:06:01,899 --> 00:06:18,576\n我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時追尋出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆\n\n18\n00:06:18,976 --> 00:06:46,214\n好主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出可是我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質有沒有是的\n\n19\n00:06:47,153 --> 00:07:15,004\n有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算是啊是嘛好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好沒有異狀喔\n\n20\n00:07:16,064 --> 00:07:24,309\n但是你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核儀廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出然後這個溢出的這個量在1300跟這個2200公升那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出我希望啦\n\n21\n00:07:44,540 --> 00:08:03,211\n我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這是第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼\n\n22\n00:08:05,185 --> 00:08:25,128\n那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼他是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下對如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的沒問題\n\n23\n00:08:25,689 --> 00:08:48,063\n好不好這不必一定要修正不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129\n\n24\n00:08:52,305 --> 00:08:52,985\n檢測中心負責研發碳14.129的檢測技術人員\n\n25\n00:09:17,995 --> 00:09:26,437\n他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位對嗎只有10位對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員\n\n26\n00:09:44,076 --> 00:10:00,328\n對有部分是計畫的人員好我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎主委\n\n27\n00:10:03,527 --> 00:10:18,144\n目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加\n\n28\n00:10:20,386 --> 00:10:44,707\n主委您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6766\t10348\t謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況\n33078\t51514\t0403地震的時候到現在對 我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出那麼這個部分大概有3600公升那麼但是我們很快的就清理完畢那也有儲屋那麼到目前大概都還安全\n53636\t71335\t所以沒有其他受損的狀況嗎?這個水溢出的狀況待會本席在後面再來跟你討論那現在我們來看到其實根據這個4月5號我看到4月5號在運轉中的這個核三長二號機降載解連那這件事情跟這個403大地震有沒有關係?\n72606\t82171\t沒有他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核酸廠沒有關係0403對核酸廠的影響是有影響的再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有\n101960\t105303\t4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一測得的最大加速值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到\n123240\t143768\t目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方\n146336\t163263\t這個主要還是要看當地的正度核酸廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核運廠那主任您剛剛說要看正度那是什麼樣的正度會有影響呀\n164787\t181977\t這一次的地震在核一核二場大概是0.02到0.03我想核一核二但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行\n183938\t197603\t但是合一合二場也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱 第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是 主委我這樣聽您的回覆應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響 對不對\n199544\t219529\t現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待\n222998\t244904\t那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說\n246846\t272993\t自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦 主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊\n274301\t290620\t要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有\n292145\t292285\t李慧琼議員李慧琼議員\n315506\t322929\t不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊\n334366\t361119\t主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶齁我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下\n361899\t378576\t我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時追尋出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆\n378976\t406214\t好 主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出可是我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質 有沒有是的\n407153\t435004\t有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算是啊是嘛好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好沒有異狀喔\n436064\t444309\t但是你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核儀廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出然後這個溢出的這個量在1300跟這個2200公升那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出我希望啦\n464540\t483211\t我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這是第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼\n485185\t505128\t那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼他是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下對 如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的 沒問題\n505689\t528063\t好不好 這不必一定要修正 不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後 是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說 今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129\n532305\t532985\t檢測中心負責研發碳14.129的檢測技術人員\n557995\t566437\t他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位 對嗎只有10位 對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位 好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員\n584076\t600328\t對 有部分是計畫的人員好 我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎 主委\n603527\t618144\t目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加\n620386\t644707\t主委 您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況\n0403地震的時候到現在對 我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出那麼這個部分大概有3600公升那麼但是我們很快的就清理完畢那也有儲屋那麼到目前大概都還安全\n所以沒有其他受損的狀況嗎?這個水溢出的狀況待會本席在後面再來跟你討論那現在我們來看到其實根據這個4月5號我看到4月5號在運轉中的這個核三長二號機降載解連那這件事情跟這個403大地震有沒有關係?\n沒有他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核酸廠沒有關係0403對核酸廠的影響是有影響的再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有\n4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一測得的最大加速值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到\n目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方\n這個主要還是要看當地的正度核酸廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核運廠那主任您剛剛說要看正度那是什麼樣的正度會有影響呀\n這一次的地震在核一核二場大概是0.02到0.03我想核一核二但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行\n但是合一合二場也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱 第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是 主委我這樣聽您的回覆應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響 對不對\n現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待\n那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說\n自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦 主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊\n要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有\n李慧琼議員李慧琼議員\n不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊\n主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶齁我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下\n我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時追尋出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆\n好 主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出可是我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質 有沒有是的\n有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算是啊是嘛好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好沒有異狀喔\n但是你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核儀廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出然後這個溢出的這個量在1300跟這個2200公升那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出我希望啦\n我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這是第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼\n那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼他是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下對 如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的 沒問題\n好不好 這不必一定要修正 不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後 是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說 今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129\n檢測中心負責研發碳14.129的檢測技術人員\n他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位 對嗎只有10位 對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位 好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員\n對 有部分是計畫的人員好 我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎 主委\n目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加\n主委 您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.766 --> 00:10.348\n謝謝主席我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況\n\n00:33.078 --> 00:51.514\n0403地震的時候到現在對我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出那麼這個部分大概有3600公升那麼但是我們很快的就清理完畢那也有儲屋那麼到目前大概都還安全\n\n00:53.636 --> 01:11.335\n所以沒有其他受損的狀況嗎?這個水溢出的狀況待會本席在後面再來跟你討論那現在我們來看到其實根據這個4月5號我看到4月5號在運轉中的這個核三長二號機降載解連那這件事情跟這個403大地震有沒有關係?\n\n01:12.606 --> 01:22.171\n沒有他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核酸廠沒有關係0403對核酸廠的影響是有影響的再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有\n\n01:41.960 --> 01:45.303\n4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一測得的最大加速值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到\n\n02:03.240 --> 02:23.768\n目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方\n\n02:26.336 --> 02:43.263\n這個主要還是要看當地的正度核酸廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核運廠那主任您剛剛說要看正度那是什麼樣的正度會有影響呀\n\n02:44.787 --> 03:01.977\n這一次的地震在核一核二場大概是0.02到0.03我想核一核二但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行\n\n03:03.938 --> 03:17.603\n但是合一合二場也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是主委我這樣聽您的回覆應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響對不對\n\n03:19.544 --> 03:39.529\n現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待\n\n03:42.998 --> 04:04.904\n那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說\n\n04:06.846 --> 04:32.993\n自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊\n\n04:34.301 --> 04:50.620\n要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有\n\n04:52.145 --> 04:52.285\n李慧琼議員李慧琼議員\n\n05:15.506 --> 05:22.929\n不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊\n\n05:34.366 --> 06:01.119\n主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶齁我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下\n\n06:01.899 --> 06:18.576\n我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時追尋出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆\n\n06:18.976 --> 06:46.214\n好主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出可是我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質有沒有是的\n\n06:47.153 --> 07:15.004\n有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算是啊是嘛好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好沒有異狀喔\n\n07:16.064 --> 07:24.309\n但是你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核儀廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出然後這個溢出的這個量在1300跟這個2200公升那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出我希望啦\n\n07:44.540 --> 08:03.211\n我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這是第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼\n\n08:05.185 --> 08:25.128\n那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼他是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下對如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的沒問題\n\n08:25.689 --> 08:48.063\n好不好這不必一定要修正不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129\n\n08:52.305 --> 08:52.985\n檢測中心負責研發碳14.129的檢測技術人員\n\n09:17.995 --> 09:26.437\n他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位對嗎只有10位對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員\n\n09:44.076 --> 10:00.328\n對有部分是計畫的人員好我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎主委\n\n10:03.527 --> 10:18.144\n目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加\n\n10:20.386 --> 10:44.707\n主委您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.766,"end":10.348,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委萬委員早主委早主委我們在403大地震之後陸陸續續一直都有餘震來發生那台電它有坦言在部分的電廠電力系統是有受到影響的那請問一下主委目前我們現在核電廠有沒有因為地震有任何受損的狀況"},{"start":33.078,"end":51.514,"text":"0403地震的時候到現在對 我們核一廠跟核二廠燃料池的水有溢出那麼這個部分大概有3600公升那麼但是我們很快的就清理完畢那也有儲屋那麼到目前大概都還安全"},{"start":53.636,"end":71.335,"text":"所以沒有其他受損的狀況嗎?這個水溢出的狀況待會本席在後面再來跟你討論那現在我們來看到其實根據這個4月5號我看到4月5號在運轉中的這個核三長二號機降載解連那這件事情跟這個403大地震有沒有關係?"},{"start":72.606,"end":82.171,"text":"沒有他們是定期在維修或者是檢視跟核酸廠沒有關係0403對核酸廠的影響是有影響的再來我們來討論一下我們看一下這個有一個表格根據我們來看台電它的資料來顯示核一廠、核二廠、核三廠耐震的能力分別是0.51G、0.67G、0.72G我們可以看到表格上有"},{"start":101.96,"end":105.303,"text":"4月3日大地震、核一場、核二場、核三場我們可以看到它的為主體底層地震一測得的最大加速值分別是0.0281G、0.0338G、0.0125G為什麼講這個數字我們可以看到"},{"start":123.24,"end":143.768,"text":"目前這三座核電廠尤其是運轉中的這個核三廠我想要請教一下說我們依照剛剛那個數值我們看到地震以來我們好像都一直連自動停機的標準都還沒有達到那我們看到在運轉中的核三廠耐震度上來看我們來回頭檢討有沒有問題有沒有需要加強補強的地方"},{"start":146.336,"end":163.263,"text":"這個主要還是要看當地的正度核酸廠在04、03顯然它是影響是極小它主要還是在北部花蓮跟北部的部分那麼事實上在核運廠那主任您剛剛說要看正度那是什麼樣的正度會有影響呀"},{"start":164.787,"end":181.977,"text":"這一次的地震在核一核二場大概是0.02到0.03我想核一核二但是在核三它少了非常多事實上在我們的網頁都有公告這也就是為什麼核三其實在地震的當下它還是持續運行"},{"start":183.938,"end":197.603,"text":"但是合一合二場也很lucky因為我們新北市其實是五弱 第五級的弱但是在當地我們測到的地震影響還是 主委我這樣聽您的回覆應該是說目前是沒有很大的影響 對不對"},{"start":199.544,"end":219.529,"text":"現在其實我們有聽到有很多的民間團體他有的有一種說法他說因為台灣現在位處於地震帶所以他們認為就不應該來使用這個核電廠所以主委認同這樣的一個看法嗎那而且您剛有說到關於現在核三廠那陣度來看目前的這些陣度看起來沒有太大的影響那您對於這樣民間團體的說法您怎麼看待"},{"start":222.998,"end":244.904,"text":"那個是這樣子這個是發生地震的地方的問題如果正央就是在北部那麼很顯然是有很大的風險這就是其實是正央跟當地的地址的問題所以這也就是剛才應該是洪孟楷委員在問我我跟他說"},{"start":246.846,"end":272.993,"text":"自然災害其實是一個風險那麼其實輔導不是啦 主委當然這個是有風險啦但也就是說您現在其實也沒有辦法去看說什麼樣的震度然後對這個核電廠會有一個傷害嘛我看目前沒有這樣的數字嘛所以本席很簡單的問您就是說如果我們僅僅就是因為台灣地主地震帶所以不應該使用核電這樣的一個看法您到底這個讚不讚同啊"},{"start":274.301,"end":290.62,"text":"要非常小心就是我們要謹慎小心謹慎小心接下來我想請教一下核安會的官網當中有一個動態的訊息其中有一個即時資訊那這個即時資訊不曉得主委有沒有看過有"},{"start":292.145,"end":292.285,"text":"李慧琼議員李慧琼議員"},{"start":315.506,"end":322.929,"text":"不曉得主委您剛剛說你有看到那我舉一個4月23號凌晨的時候我們看到凌晨0點09分我們發布了一個資訊上面寫說今天23號11點56分然後地震的這個資訊這個有沒有錯啊"},{"start":334.366,"end":361.119,"text":"主委這有沒有錯?這個應該是有錯錯在哪裡?極點錯的是嗎?所以你就是做一個未來的通報嘛那會有人就說哎呀這個是小事情欸主委這個不能說是小事情喔因為呢我們這個掌管核安吶齁我覺得任何一個這個資訊我們都是要嚴謹要正確何況這是一個即時資訊喔那我們的速度不一怎麼會叫即時啊有的要一個小時那速度還會有錯誤能不能說明一下"},{"start":361.899,"end":378.576,"text":"我們來檢視一下到底是哪個環節出了問題那為什麼有的是13分鐘就可以即時追尋出來有的要到一個多小時為什麼沒有標準我想這個可能是一個例外我們會來檢視一下到底是什麼地方出了問題再跟委員回覆"},{"start":378.976,"end":406.214,"text":"好 主委我想真的要解釋一下既然是即時那能夠做到有的時候是13分鐘15分鐘那是不是應該要保持在一個水準之上那不是有的時候搞了一個多小時這還叫即時嗎好不好那接下來我想再請教一下主委剛剛提到這個燃料池水在這次地震當中有溢出可是我要請教一下我們燃料池水是不是有含放射性物質 有沒有是的"},{"start":407.153,"end":435.004,"text":"有嘛那所以燃料池水這個因為地震溢出這算不算一種異常這個我想這個算不算是啊是嘛好那我們看到喔4月3號12點24分我們發布的即時資訊上面寫到說哎呀今天7點58分臺灣地區的有感地震各核電廠依程序執行現場巡視結果機組維持正常運作那我們持續監督安全好沒有異狀喔"},{"start":436.064,"end":444.309,"text":"但是你的內文又怎麼講你的內文又說發現這個核儀廠巡視的時候有兩部這個機用過燃料這個池水溢出然後這個溢出的這個量在1300跟這個2200公升那我們又看到在另外一則即時資訊也是講到說清華大學的水池式反應器的這個儲存廠沒有受到影響那我們會持續去監控可是事實上它的池水也是有溢出我希望啦"},{"start":464.54,"end":483.211,"text":"我們的即時資訊我剛剛本席講過了這是第一個我們能夠快要快第二個資訊一定要正確第三個絕對不要粉飾太平如果像您剛剛所說的這個池水是有含放射性物質的而且它溢出也算是異常那為什麼我們在給民眾一開始的這個即時資訊上面是一種粉飾太平告訴大家這沒有任何關係為什麼"},{"start":485.185,"end":505.128,"text":"那個核電廠人員要去檢視那麼他是會有一點點時間的落差所以一發生的時間的地震的當下對 如果有一點落差你就不應該用粉飾太平告訴大家什麼事都沒發生啊你是不是應該要給最正確的資訊求快也要求正確嘛所以這一點下次能不能再修正一下是的 沒問題"},{"start":505.689,"end":528.063,"text":"好不好 這不必一定要修正 不可以有錯誤的資訊那最後 是本席在3月28號的時候有特別跟您提到我們現在日本福島第一核電廠排放了含氚廢水除了氚之外還有碳14跟碳129但是我們現在目前是沒有檢測能力那您也說 今年年底會完成碳14的檢測技術明年年底會完成碳129"},{"start":532.305,"end":532.985,"text":"檢測中心負責研發碳14.129的檢測技術人員"},{"start":557.995,"end":566.437,"text":"他同時除了這個研發之外他還要負責放射性物質的檢測的工作那現在全部的正式的人員只有10位 對嗎只有10位 對嗎報告委員碳14這一塊是有12位有12位 好你是不是還有加上外聘所以我剛剛指的是正式人員"},{"start":584.076,"end":600.328,"text":"對 有部分是計畫的人員好 我們不管今天你10位、12位、13位你知道這個人力其實是真的非常非常的少那您剛剛都說過了我們這些相關的研發這個檢測的這個技術其實是有它的困難度在這樣的人力夠嗎 主委"},{"start":603.527,"end":618.144,"text":"目前是可以啦那麼我們會來檢視我會跟陳主任再討論一下如果有需要我們看看是不是有緣額因為公務人員的人力他其實是有一線的限制但是我們這樣專業人力該加就要加"},{"start":620.386,"end":644.707,"text":"主委 您們對於日本排放的含氚廢水都告訴國人我們的檢測結果都是符合或是低於這個標準的但是我們現在自己的檢測技術跟能量卻又沒有達到那樣的標準所以你們的任何的說法跟任何的檢測報告要怎麼取信於國人所以我想今天我們來談的就是該補充人力要補充該給正確的資訊要給正確那我們希望這個主委加油好不好好 謝謝"}]}}}}