{"id":151614,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151614","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3c5badab0a2a6261f5a1f541440a910baeadb1108e4b84432f4276e10a0b5a9ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:56:59 - 10:08:48","影片長度":"00:11:49","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":709,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:08:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T09:56:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":342,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時57分）謝謝主席，有請陳東陽主委備詢。"],["主席：好，有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委好。520即將到了，您上任到現在大約7個月，希望你一切都還愉快、順利，也謝謝在地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠。主委先前是在成功大學任教，也來自臺南，說不定還有機會繼續留任。主委，你有沒有被徵詢留任啊？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：不管有還是沒有，我想我們還是持續關注核能的發展方向。今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向。今年1月底，「外交家」（The Diplomat）雜誌有一篇文章提到，臺灣是已經開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一，如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標。其中甚至直接說道，蔡政府用天然氣取代煤碳和核電的政策，將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾。除了天然氣價格波動幅度大，要是對岸或其他人有意，甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣；最後甚至建議，重啟核四並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後延役。請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法？會覺得太危言聳聽嗎？報導中對於我們核電廠的相關建議，主委覺得可行嗎？這個雜誌可信嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：不同媒體都會有不同的報導，我們都持續關注與瞭解。核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關，它其實是著重在技術……"],["葛委員如鈞：這雜誌的說法到底可不可信？有沒有危言聳聽？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想我沒辦法評論個別媒體的報導。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，在這邊我跟您分享一下，這個雜誌、這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體，國際事務部主任趙怡翔、吳釗燮之子吳迪、之前民進黨非常青睞的媒體外交家，你們不要上了雜誌媒體就說外交家好棒棒，然後他來評論我們的核能你就說不予評論，這個大家有各自的說法，我希望大家真的是來關注一下，在各國的媒體、各國的政策上面可以給臺灣什麼樣的建議。","接下來我們來看，這才是外面的雜誌，我們來講臺灣……郭智輝──準經濟部長，我們也非常期待，近日也開始拜訪產業，針對缺電的問題，4月18號在一個典禮當中表示，目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠延役，若需要延役也希望取得全民認同，換句話說，核電廠延役並不是被排除的，會是未來的一個選項。想請教一下主委，你們認不認同這樣的說法？"],["陳主任委員東陽：任何可能都有可能，我剛才……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以延役是有可能的嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員東陽：都有可能。"],["葛委員如鈞：不排除嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員東陽：但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的……"],["葛委員如鈞：核安會要不要針對延役做準備？如果真的要延役的話。"],["陳主任委員東陽：當然就有技術上……"],["葛委員如鈞：要做準備嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：當然。"],["葛委員如鈞：延役一下就需要兩、三年，我們現在有沒有做準備？現在有沒有為延役做準備？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們有去檢視相關的法規。"],["葛委員如鈞：這樣會不會太模糊了？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們有去檢視……"],["葛委員如鈞：檢視有報告嗎？有會議嗎？有紀錄嗎？有上網嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有紀錄、沒有上網。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒關係，我們先繼續看，我們協作啦！我們在立院都很希望協作，讓臺灣變得更好。","跟主委報告一下，我們臨近的日本東京最大的核電廠，4（本）月15號獲得原子能監督委員會核准，將核燃料放入7號反應爐；臨近的韓國近年更是政策轉向，從本來的去核電，因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求遽增的情況之下，核電廠的運轉年限從40年左右延長到70到80年；全球運轉的438部核電機組當中，在近年獲得延役的比例高達59%；荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址，預計2025年要興建兩座。","我們回到臺灣來看，剛剛我們還是參考國外，還有一些臺灣準經濟部長的說法。我們來看一下「雙總統」的能源活動，環保團體代表就說，我們2050要淨零減碳、2030年要碳排減半，距離2030只有6年的時間，現在這個數字還在持續上升，我們到底碳排要怎麼降，我們當然不會希望2050的淨零碳排跳票嘛！所以我想請教一下主委，如果520以後賴政府上台，新任經濟部長最後拍板決定要讓核電廠延役，核安會到底有沒有要早一點來做修法草案的研議？我們到底有沒有做一些相關的準備啊？讓您回答一下。"],["陳主任委員東陽：如果政策是要延役，那麼核安會當然要全力地配合。"],["葛委員如鈞：那我跟主委分享，2025年5月……不知道是5月還是3月，時間就已經要到了嘛！我們還要兩、三年準備，你等他上任再來準備的話，這樣不會太趕了嗎？來得及嗎？我們的電夠用嗎？我們評估就要兩、三年的時間耶！我不是說今天要延役，明天就會延役成功啊！不是嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：台灣電力公司也必須去檢視……"],["葛委員如鈞：是台電的問題啦！我看到了一個好大的皮球。"],["陳主任委員東陽：目前去檢視所有機組安全的情況，包含……"],["葛委員如鈞：台電如果不說要準備，這邊就不用準備了，是不是？"],["陳主任委員東陽：台電是主要的發動者，它是從需求面，我們是被動來接受。"],["葛委員如鈞：它不叫核電啊！是你們叫核安啊！它還有很多其他發電要管理，而且他們有時候要上台、下台的……"],["陳主任委員東陽：核電廠的主管機關是台電，包括核一、核二、核三。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。我想這個希望早一點來規劃，早一點來做準備，為什麼？我們真的是要超前部署啦！","Sam Altman──Open AI的執行長曾經多次表示，人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段；我們全人類應該都要對核融合進行更多的投資。所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helion，接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50個megawatts以上發電量的核融合電廠，預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量，連微軟都已經在預購這個電力了。","我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力啊？我們有沒有發展？我們真的是很好奇。再接下來呢，其實我們也看到很多人的批評，我先問一下，我們核融合現在有沒有投入？投入多少？計畫、規模多少？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們有國科會support的一個計畫，是一個整合型……"],["葛委員如鈞：知道有多少預算嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：大概3,500萬吧！"],["葛委員如鈞：3,500萬要來保障我們未來新型態能源的發展，這樣足夠嗎？可不可以給我們專業的評論？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這是一個early stage的study。"],["葛委員如鈞：別人2024年都已經要完工第七代核融合的反應器了，2028年要興建一個有50個megawatts的核融合電廠，微軟都在預購了，這還是early stage嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們是在early stage。"],["葛委員如鈞：你們的思維是early stage，沒有關係！我們來協作。我們看一下我們執政黨的好朋友，甚至我也非常非常景仰他，甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長，和碩董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊採訪的時候也提醒，最近最重要的項目就是核融合研究的新創公司，得核融合得聖杯，還在early stage嗎？這不是我講的喔！童董事長講的喔！","我們繼續看，我今天講的全部都是專業的，都是外部人士講的、有雜誌講的，我們再來看，中研院院士，院士喔！李遠哲於日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零青年沙龍，說由於臺灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減，除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半，否則政府無法在2050達成淨零。為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題？是因為COP 28之後，核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源，同意嘛！他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話，目前的政策都是騙人的，這別人講的、院士講的。","所以真的是拜託啦！拜託核安會該修法的要儘快啟動修法討論，我們已經看到很多國外的外館都在關注了，不只關注臺灣，各國也都在要麼評估研議、要麼興建新的核電廠、要麼投資核融合，我們投資3,500萬，一棟臺北的房子都買不起，我們要投資核融合啦！該評估的提前評估，積極為核電廠的重啟預先準備。","而且關於核能的新科技，拜託建議採取更積極的態度，新科技每年都在變，5年前我們是early stage覺得可以等，2年前覺得可以再看看，拜託！今年我們又有AI內閣，active、innovative好不好？我們非常地期待，不管您是否留任，我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來，希望真的是要換一個作法，相關的核融合、第七代核融合反應器要完工，我們剛才提到了全球最大企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融合購電協議，希望核安會這邊可以再更積極好不好？給我們更專業的一些建議，給我們更新的作法、更主動積極，active、innovative。"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，沒有問題，但是我跟委員澄清一下，我剛才講early stage是我們3,500萬那個計畫。"],["葛委員如鈞：那總規模多少？不好意思，主席，我再占用一點時間，因為很善意的交流嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，其實它就是……"],["葛委員如鈞：總規模多少？"],["陳主任委員東陽：總規模就是3,500萬，有5個子計畫，包含國原院、成大、清華，還有……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以你不是說它是有一個full stage，然後這是其中一個stage 3,500萬，沒有，它就是early stage的3,500萬，那我們未來有沒有預期投入？"],["陳主任委員東陽：它有4年計畫，現在是2年……"],["葛委員如鈞：第一年3,500萬？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：那後面呢？不知道？"],["陳主任委員東陽：後面還會再編。"],["葛委員如鈞：有在編了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，有在編。"],["葛委員如鈞：那預計多少？什麼時候會知道？"],["高院長梓木：報告委員，我們規劃第二期要研究一個Tokamak的……"],["葛委員如鈞：對，我知道，有球型托克馬克嘛！"],["高院長梓木：對，將來會跟國科會申請大概1億左右的經費。"],["葛委員如鈞：1億左右的經費？"],["高院長梓木：對，1億至2億，就要看到時國家的預算能夠核給我們多少。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我們教文委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發，核能安全也是我們非常關注的，能源也是我們非常關注的，也謝謝主委來這邊跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話，也謝謝主席，不好意思，感謝。"],["陳主任委員東陽：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葛如鈞委員，陳主委請回。","我們接下來請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葉元之","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","范雲","張嘉郡","吳春城"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會\n列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查 113年度中央\n政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算（公務預算）解凍案4案","agenda_id":"1133301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"151614","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151614","tool":"pyannote","id":"151614-pyannote"},"job_id":"xVRp1stbODeZZA6a","queued_at":"2024-05-31 19:17:46","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 19:19:19","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151614"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:19:19","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3c5badab0a2a6261f5a1f541440a910bad2ddfac4d3fd9eb710bd954f519c80315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:19:39","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:19:41","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 19:19:53","msg":"status: 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,116 --> 00:00:18,799\n謝謝主席有請陳東陽主委備詢好有請陳主委好各位委員好主委好520即將到了您上任到現在大約7個月希望您一切都還愉快很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有\n\n2\n00:00:44,660 --> 00:01:09,193\n不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了\n\n3\n00:01:09,853 --> 00:01:35,909\n蔡政府用天然氣取代煤、碳和核電的政策將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:39,286 --> 00:01:57,358\n不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有維恩聳聽\n\n5\n00:01:59,642 --> 00:02:18,997\n我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家\n\n6\n00:02:19,978 --> 00:02:36,271\n你們不要上了這個雜誌媒體就說外交好棒棒然後他來評論我們的這個核能你就說不予評論這個大家以各自說法我希望大家真的是來關注一下在各國的媒體各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議\n\n7\n00:02:37,452 --> 00:03:04,635\n接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18日目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委\n\n8\n00:03:05,718 --> 00:03:07,730\n我們認不認同這樣的說法?\n\n9\n00:03:09,299 --> 00:03:34,989\n任何可能都是都有可能吶所以研議是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有任務研議做準備\n\n10\n00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:56,565\n我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下\n\n11\n00:03:57,426 --> 00:04:12,467\n臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電\n\n12\n00:04:13,496 --> 00:04:22,664\n因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59%\n\n13\n00:04:32,162 --> 00:05:00,447\n荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統、人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降\n\n14\n00:05:00,947 --> 00:05:02,088\n如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合\n\n15\n00:05:27,230 --> 00:05:56,412\n那我跟主委分享2025年5月份不知道5月還3月啦就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎來得及嗎我們的電夠用嗎我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議明天就研議成功啊不是嗎臺灣電力公司也必須去檢視臺電的問題啦目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況\n\n16\n00:05:58,014 --> 00:06:20,701\n那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一核二核三\n\n17\n00:06:21,867 --> 00:06:46,708\n我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署SamAltmanOpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium\n\n18\n00:06:47,270 --> 00:07:01,096\n接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的核融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇\n\n19\n00:07:08,599 --> 00:07:29,688\n那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論\n\n20\n00:07:31,369 --> 00:07:43,105\n這是一個earlystage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購這還是earlystage嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:47,976 --> 00:08:12,782\n說我們是在earlystage你們的思維是earlystage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司\n\n22\n00:08:13,522 --> 00:08:27,999\n德和融合、德勝悲還在earlystage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的有雜誌講的我們再來看\n\n23\n00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:55,788\n中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零清廉沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050年達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為COVID-28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎\n\n24\n00:08:56,769 --> 00:09:21,876\n他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬\n\n25\n00:09:24,364 --> 00:09:38,142\n一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變\n\n26\n00:09:38,863 --> 00:09:55,356\n五年前我們是earlystage覺得可以等兩年前覺得可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣ActiveInnovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來\n\n27\n00:09:56,397 --> 00:10:18,077\n希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核、第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議希望聯安會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極activeinnovative\n\n28\n00:10:18,537 --> 00:10:34,225\n沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講earlystage是我們3500萬那個計劃那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實他就是總規模多少總規模就是3500萬有四個五個計劃五個計劃包含國研院、成大\n\n29\n00:10:38,687 --> 00:11:01,622\n清華還有這個所以你不是說他是有一個fullstage然後這是其中一個stage3500萬沒有他就是earlystage的3千萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入他有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千五百萬對對對那後面後面呢後面還會有在編有有有有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道\n\n30\n00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:10,144\n規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少\n\n31\n00:11:23,672 --> 00:11:41,238\n好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員、張主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14116\t18799\t謝謝主席 有請陳東陽主委備詢好 有請陳主委好 各位委員好主委好 520即將到了您上任到現在大約7個月希望您一切都還愉快很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有\n44660\t69193\t不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了\n69853\t95909\t蔡政府用天然氣取代煤、碳和核電的政策將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎?\n99286\t117358\t不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有維恩聳聽\n119642\t138997\t我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家\n139978\t156271\t你們不要上了這個雜誌媒體就說外交好棒棒然後他來評論我們的這個核能你就說不予評論這個大家以各自說法我希望大家真的是來關注一下在各國的媒體各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議\n157452\t184635\t接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18日目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委\n185718\t187730\t我們認不認同這樣的說法?\n189299\t214989\t任何可能都是都有可能吶所以研議是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有任務研議做準備\n216010\t236565\t我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下\n237426\t252467\t臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電\n253496\t262664\t因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59%\n272162\t300447\t荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統、人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降\n300947\t302088\t如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合\n327230\t356412\t那我跟主委分享2025年5月份不知道5月還3月啦就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎來得及嗎我們的電夠用嗎我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議明天就研議成功啊不是嗎臺灣電力公司也必須去檢視臺電的問題啦目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況\n358014\t380701\t那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一核二核三\n381867\t406708\t我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署Sam Altman OpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium\n407270\t421096\t接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的核融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇\n428599\t449688\t那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論\n451369\t463105\t這是一個early stage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購 這還是early stage嗎?\n467976\t492782\t說我們是在early stage你們的思維是early stage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司\n493522\t507999\t德和融合、德勝悲還在early stage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的有雜誌講的我們再來看\n508519\t535788\t中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零清廉沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050年達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為COVID-28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎\n536769\t561876\t他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬\n564364\t578142\t一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變\n578863\t595356\t五年前我們是early stage覺得可以等兩年前覺得可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣ActiveInnovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來\n596397\t618077\t希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核、第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議希望聯安會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極active innovative\n618537\t634225\t沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講early stage是我們3500萬那個計劃那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實他就是總規模多少總規模就是3500萬有四個五個計劃五個計劃包含國研院、成大\n638687\t661622\t清華還有這個所以你不是說他是有一個full stage然後這是其中一個stage3500萬沒有他就是early stage的3千萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入他有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千五百萬對對對那後面後面呢後面還會有在編有有有有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道\n662679\t670144\t規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少\n683672\t701238\t好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員、張主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請陳東陽主委備詢好 有請陳主委好 各位委員好主委好 520即將到了您上任到現在大約7個月希望您一切都還愉快很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有\n不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了\n蔡政府用天然氣取代煤、碳和核電的政策將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎?\n不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有維恩聳聽\n我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家\n你們不要上了這個雜誌媒體就說外交好棒棒然後他來評論我們的這個核能你就說不予評論這個大家以各自說法我希望大家真的是來關注一下在各國的媒體各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議\n接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18日目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委\n我們認不認同這樣的說法?\n任何可能都是都有可能吶所以研議是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有任務研議做準備\n我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下\n臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電\n因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59%\n荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統、人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降\n如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合\n那我跟主委分享2025年5月份不知道5月還3月啦就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎來得及嗎我們的電夠用嗎我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議明天就研議成功啊不是嗎臺灣電力公司也必須去檢視臺電的問題啦目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況\n那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一核二核三\n我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署Sam Altman OpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium\n接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的核融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇\n那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論\n這是一個early stage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購 這還是early stage嗎?\n說我們是在early stage你們的思維是early stage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司\n德和融合、德勝悲還在early stage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的有雜誌講的我們再來看\n中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零清廉沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050年達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為COVID-28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎\n他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬\n一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變\n五年前我們是early stage覺得可以等兩年前覺得可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣ActiveInnovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來\n希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核、第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議希望聯安會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極active innovative\n沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講early stage是我們3500萬那個計劃那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實他就是總規模多少總規模就是3500萬有四個五個計劃五個計劃包含國研院、成大\n清華還有這個所以你不是說他是有一個full stage然後這是其中一個stage3500萬沒有他就是early stage的3千萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入他有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千五百萬對對對那後面後面呢後面還會有在編有有有有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道\n規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少\n好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員、張主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.116 --> 00:18.799\n謝謝主席有請陳東陽主委備詢好有請陳主委好各位委員好主委好520即將到了您上任到現在大約7個月希望您一切都還愉快很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有\n\n00:44.660 --> 01:09.193\n不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了\n\n01:09.853 --> 01:35.909\n蔡政府用天然氣取代煤、碳和核電的政策將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎?\n\n01:39.286 --> 01:57.358\n不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有維恩聳聽\n\n01:59.642 --> 02:18.997\n我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家\n\n02:19.978 --> 02:36.271\n你們不要上了這個雜誌媒體就說外交好棒棒然後他來評論我們的這個核能你就說不予評論這個大家以各自說法我希望大家真的是來關注一下在各國的媒體各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議\n\n02:37.452 --> 03:04.635\n接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18日目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委\n\n03:05.718 --> 03:07.730\n我們認不認同這樣的說法?\n\n03:09.299 --> 03:34.989\n任何可能都是都有可能吶所以研議是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有任務研議做準備\n\n03:36.010 --> 03:56.565\n我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下\n\n03:57.426 --> 04:12.467\n臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電\n\n04:13.496 --> 04:22.664\n因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59%\n\n04:32.162 --> 05:00.447\n荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統、人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降\n\n05:00.947 --> 05:02.088\n如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合\n\n05:27.230 --> 05:56.412\n那我跟主委分享2025年5月份不知道5月還3月啦就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎來得及嗎我們的電夠用嗎我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議明天就研議成功啊不是嗎臺灣電力公司也必須去檢視臺電的問題啦目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況\n\n05:58.014 --> 06:20.701\n那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一核二核三\n\n06:21.867 --> 06:46.708\n我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署SamAltmanOpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium\n\n06:47.270 --> 07:01.096\n接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的核融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇\n\n07:08.599 --> 07:29.688\n那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論\n\n07:31.369 --> 07:43.105\n這是一個earlystage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購這還是earlystage嗎?\n\n07:47.976 --> 08:12.782\n說我們是在earlystage你們的思維是earlystage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司\n\n08:13.522 --> 08:27.999\n德和融合、德勝悲還在earlystage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的有雜誌講的我們再來看\n\n08:28.519 --> 08:55.788\n中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零清廉沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050年達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為COVID-28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎\n\n08:56.769 --> 09:21.876\n他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬\n\n09:24.364 --> 09:38.142\n一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變\n\n09:38.863 --> 09:55.356\n五年前我們是earlystage覺得可以等兩年前覺得可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣ActiveInnovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來\n\n09:56.397 --> 10:18.077\n希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核、第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議希望聯安會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極activeinnovative\n\n10:18.537 --> 10:34.225\n沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講earlystage是我們3500萬那個計劃那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實他就是總規模多少總規模就是3500萬有四個五個計劃五個計劃包含國研院、成大\n\n10:38.687 --> 11:01.622\n清華還有這個所以你不是說他是有一個fullstage然後這是其中一個stage3500萬沒有他就是earlystage的3千萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入他有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千五百萬對對對那後面後面呢後面還會有在編有有有有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道\n\n11:02.679 --> 11:10.144\n規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少\n\n11:23.672 --> 11:41.238\n好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員、張主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.116,"end":18.799,"text":"謝謝主席 有請陳東陽主委備詢好 有請陳主委好 各位委員好主委好 520即將到了您上任到現在大約7個月希望您一切都還愉快很順利也謝謝在這個地震的過程當中持續關注我們的核電廠主委先前是在成功大學任教也來自台南說不定很有機會繼續留任主委您有沒有被徵詢留任沒有"},{"start":44.66,"end":69.193,"text":"不管有還是沒有我想我們還是持續來關注核能的發展方向今天想跟主委交流一下核能政策的幾個重要方向今年的1月底外交家Tipman雜誌有一篇文章提到台灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一如果停用核能很難不損害國家安全利益與氣候目標其中甚至直接說到了"},{"start":69.853,"end":95.909,"text":"蔡政府用天然氣取代煤、碳和核電的政策將使臺灣的發電成本容易受到干擾除了天然氣價格波動幅度大要是對岸或其他人有意甚至可能透過海上封鎖的方式扼殺臺灣最後甚至建議重啟核試並且讓現有的核電廠檢修後研議請教一下主委怎麼看待這篇報導的說法會覺得太危言聳聽啦報導中對我們核電廠相關的建議主委覺得可惜嗎?這個雜誌可信嗎?"},{"start":99.286,"end":117.358,"text":"不同媒體都會有不同的報導我們都持續關注也了解核安會其實是一個核能安全管制的獨立機關它其實是著重在技術這雜誌的說法到底可不可信有沒有維恩聳聽"},{"start":119.642,"end":138.997,"text":"我想我沒辦法評論個別的一個媒體的報告在這邊我跟你們分享一下這個雜誌這個媒體是民進黨愛用的媒體國際事務部主任趙怡翔吳趙燮之子吳迪這個之前的這個民進黨非常青睞的這個媒體外交家"},{"start":139.978,"end":156.271,"text":"你們不要上了這個雜誌媒體就說外交好棒棒然後他來評論我們的這個核能你就說不予評論這個大家以各自說法我希望大家真的是來關注一下在各國的媒體各國的政策上面可以給台灣什麼樣的一些建議"},{"start":157.452,"end":184.635,"text":"接下來我們來看這個才是外面的雜誌我們來講台灣郭志輝準經濟部長我們也非常期待近日也開始拜訪產業針對缺電的問題在一個典禮當中表示4月18日目前無法判斷需不需要核電廠研議若需要研議也希望取得全民認同換句話說核電廠研議並不是被排除的會是未來的一個選項想請教一下主委"},{"start":185.718,"end":187.73,"text":"我們認不認同這樣的說法?"},{"start":189.299,"end":214.989,"text":"任何可能都是都有可能吶所以研議是有可能的嘛對不對都有可能不排除嘛不排除嘛對不對但是核安會不會對特定的立場做特定的但核安會要不要針對研議做準備如果真的要研議的話當然要做準備嘛當然研議一下就需要兩三年啊我們現在有沒有做準備現在有沒有任務研議做準備"},{"start":216.01,"end":236.565,"text":"我們有去檢視相關的法規這會不會太模糊了我們有去檢視相關的法規檢視那有報告嗎?有會議嗎?有記錄嗎?沒有記錄有上網嗎?沒有上網好沒關係我們先繼續看我們協作啦我們在立院我們都很希望協作讓台灣變得更好來跟主委報告一下"},{"start":237.426,"end":252.467,"text":"臨近日本東京最大的核電廠4月15日本月獲得原子能監督委員會核准將核燃料放入7號反應爐臨近韓國近年更是政策轉向從本來的去核電"},{"start":253.496,"end":262.664,"text":"因為AI、數據中心、電動車普及導致電力需求矩陣的情況之下核電廠運轉連線從40年左右延長到70到80年全球運轉的438部核電機組當中在近年獲得研議的比例高達59%"},{"start":272.162,"end":300.447,"text":"荷蘭則是積極進行核電廠的選址預計2025年要興建兩座我們回到台灣來看剛剛我們還是參考國外還有一些台灣的說法準經濟部長我們來看一下雙總統、人員的這個活動環保團體代表就說我們2050要淨零減碳2030年要碳排減半距離2030年只有6年的時間現在這個數字還在持續上升我們到底碳排要怎麼降"},{"start":300.947,"end":302.088,"text":"如果政策是要研議那麼核安會當然要全力的配合"},{"start":327.23,"end":356.412,"text":"那我跟主委分享2025年5月份不知道5月還3月啦就已經要有這個時間就已經到了嘛那我們還要兩三年準備你等他上任再來準備這不會太趕了嗎來得及嗎我們的電夠用嗎我們評估就要兩三年的時間欸我不是說今天要研議明天就研議成功啊不是嗎臺灣電力公司也必須去檢視臺電的問題啦目前去檢視目前的基礎的所有的安全的情況"},{"start":358.014,"end":380.701,"text":"那台電如果不說要準備這邊就不用準備了是不是台電是主要的發動者他是從需求面那麼我們是被動來接受他不叫核電啊是你們叫核安啊他還有很多其他發電要管理啊而且他們有時候要上台下台的管機關是台電核電廠核一核二核三"},{"start":381.867,"end":406.708,"text":"我想這個希望早一點來規劃早一點來做準備為什麼我們真的是要超前部署Sam Altman OpenAI的執行長曾經多次表示人工智慧如果沒有足夠的能源沒有辦法到達下一個階段我們應該全人類都要對核融合進行更多的投資所以他2021年的時候就投資了一個核融合新創公司Helium"},{"start":407.27,"end":421.096,"text":"接下來他們在2028年要興建一座50MW以上的發電量的核融合電廠預計可以供應5萬戶美國家庭一年的用電量連微軟都已經在預購了微軟都已經預購這個電力了我們在核融合這一塊有沒有努力我們有沒有發展我們真的是很好奇"},{"start":428.599,"end":449.688,"text":"那在接下來呢其實我們也看到很多人的批評我先問一下我們核融呢現在有沒有投入投入多少計畫規模多少我們有國客會support的一個計畫是一個整合型計畫知道多少預算嗎大概3500萬吧3500萬要來保障我們未來在未來新形態能源的發展這樣足夠嗎可不可以給我們專業的評論"},{"start":451.369,"end":463.105,"text":"這是一個early stage的study別人都已經2024年要完工第7代的核融合反應器了2028年要新建一個有50MW的核融合電廠微軟都在預購 這還是early stage嗎?"},{"start":467.976,"end":492.782,"text":"說我們是在early stage你們的思維是early stage沒有關係我們來協作我們看一下這個我們執政黨的好朋友甚至我也非常非常景仰他甚至一度傳出可能擔任行政院長合作董事長童子賢在去年接受財訊的採訪的時候也提醒最近最重要的項目就是核融核研究的新創公司"},{"start":493.522,"end":507.999,"text":"德和融合、德勝悲還在early stage嗎?這不是我講的喔!童董事長講的喔!我們繼續看我今天講的全部都是專業的都是外部人士講的有雜誌講的我們再來看"},{"start":508.519,"end":535.788,"text":"中研院院士李遠哲與日前參加臺大風險中心舉辦的淨零清廉沙龍說由於台灣過去15年的溫室氣體只增無減除非2030年氣體排放量可降低一半否則政府無法在2050年達成淨零為什麼我們要在這裡講這個問題是因為COVID-28之後核能已經被確認為零碳排的能源同意嗎"},{"start":536.769,"end":561.876,"text":"他說如果我們沒有辦法達成的話目前的政策都是騙人的這是別人講的院士講的所以真的是拜託啦拜託核安會該修法的要盡快啟動修法討論我們已經看到很多國外的外管都在關注了不只關注台灣各國也都在要嘛評估研議要嘛興建新的核電廠要嘛投資核融核我們投資核融3500萬"},{"start":564.364,"end":578.142,"text":"一棟台北的房子都買不起我們要投資核融合該評估的提前評估積極為核電廠的重啟一宣準備而且關於核能的新科技拜託建議採取更積極的態度新科技每年都在變"},{"start":578.863,"end":595.356,"text":"五年前我們是early stage覺得可以等兩年前覺得可以再看看拜託今年我們又有AI內閣ActiveInnovative好不好我們非常的期待那不管您是否留任我們希望有一個非常非常好的典範留下來"},{"start":596.397,"end":618.077,"text":"希望真的是要換一個做法相關的核融核、第7代核融核反應器要完工我們剛剛提到了全球最大的企業之一微軟也簽署了2028年的核融核購電協議希望聯安會這邊可以再更積極好不好給我們更專業的一些建議給我們更新的做法更主動積極active innovative"},{"start":618.537,"end":634.225,"text":"沒有問題但是我跟委員澄清一下我剛才講early stage是我們3500萬那個計劃那總規模多少不好意思主席我再用一點時間因為很善意的交流嘛對對對其實他就是總規模多少總規模就是3500萬有四個五個計劃五個計劃包含國研院、成大"},{"start":638.687,"end":661.622,"text":"清華還有這個所以你不是說他是有一個full stage然後這是其中一個stage3500萬沒有他就是early stage的3千萬那我們未來有沒有預期投入他有四年計畫現在是四年第一年3千五百萬對對對那後面後面呢後面還會有在編有有有有在編了嗎對對對那預計多少什麼時候會知道"},{"start":662.679,"end":670.144,"text":"規劃第二期要研究一個托克瑪的將來會跟國科會申請大概一億左右的經費一億至二億就要看國家的預算能夠賀給我們多少"},{"start":683.672,"end":701.238,"text":"好,我們教育委員會也會非常關注國科會還有相關的科技研發核能安全也是我們非常關注的能源也是我們非常關注的那也謝謝這個主委來這邊來跟我們進行一個非常良善的對話也謝謝主席,不好意思那感謝好,謝謝好,謝謝葛如君委員、張主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員"}]}}}}