{"id":151617,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151617","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb348bafc58500ff7497e796690f3f0abb2eadb1108e4b844321cf611dc18aaa0c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:52:21 - 10:04:48","影片長度":"00:12:27","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就「如何透過行政簡化、訴訟減量與科技運用以降低基層司法體系負擔之成效與精進期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-16"},"duration":747,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:04:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T09:52:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時52分）謝謝主席。有請法務部蔡部長，還有司法院秘書長。"],["主席：有請蔡部長和吳秘書長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好！"],["莊委員瑞雄：剛才講的廢除死刑，大法官會解釋，為什麼龍介兄叫你們要表態？我是覺得比較沒意思，你們要怎麼表態？大法官，尤其是憲法法庭，不是哪一個政黨的憲法法庭，哪怕憲法法庭做一個解釋出來以後，它比憲法還大，秘書長，是不是這樣說？"],["吳秘書長三龍：是，是這樣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是不是這樣說？"],["吳秘書長三龍：是、是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我記得我從大一開始，有幾個有名的問題，要不要廢除死刑，在法學一年級裡面，大家都在辯論這個問題，當年還有同婚的問題，還有代理孕母的問題，你看這個東西幾十年後都是社會上碰到的問題，社會是在進步的。","這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的決定，確實很難各個機關對它有任何的影響，我也不認為法務部發表你們的聲明以後，還好像要每一個人都去影響、去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官對整個憲政所作出的解釋、對法律所作出的解釋到底是不是合憲，但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心，不管是司法院或者法務部。","之前士林地院那個法官比較不幸，跳樓身亡，我今天早上看到高等法院的陳姓法官恢復意識清醒過來了，這個是比較值得欣慰的地方，但也代表這個工作環境確實是有壓力，甚至於大家講的過勞，這個案件裡面值得部長及秘書長好好地去省思。","從臺灣各地方法院新收案量來看，刑事案件從2021年的四十一多萬件上升到2023年的五十多萬件，案量三年內成長了22%，司法人力，不管檢察官或者是法官，都一定非常緊繃。我看日前司法院許宗力院長公開回信裡面目前司法實務的一些困境也引起了很多法官的不滿，雲林地方法院及臺北地院，還有桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講，我不曉得，兩位都是法律人，我們來詳談問題出在什麼地方。","翁岳生前院長8年任內法官多313個，這可能要秘書長回答了，增加的比例22.96%；賴浩敏6年任內增加228個，增幅12.3%；任期只有3年的賴英照增加167個，還有9.9%；現在許宗力院長在任七年多，人家說只增加125個，增加6%而已。儘管我們在2019年修正中央政府機關總員額法，將員額上限從13,900提升到15,000，補充1,100的人力，但是法官只增加124，其他都是書記官337，法官助理426，當然其他都是輔助人力，法官員額實際上也沒有增加多少，以現在來看的話，秘書長是不是可以解釋一下？現在人家在質疑你們，你們這7年將近8年……"],["吳秘書長三龍：我們許院長增加的人數是比較多，我們人事處長有一個很精準的數字。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，不好意思！先讓他們回答一下。"],["陳處長美彤：委員，容我報告一下，因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考，一個法官從司法官特考考試到分發需要3年的時間，所以許院長任期前3年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的，其實人事總處從108年底修正了機關總員額法之後，預算的增加是實現在110年，因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了，所以真正要增加員額是從110年開始，因此我們從109年開始大量的提報法官需用名額，以109年到113年來講，我們總共報了448個法官需用名額，只是像從111年開始報考的，都要到114年才能分發，對不對？那都不是許院長任期內，他的任期今年屆滿的話，都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官員額，所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法，我們的員額……"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你們的意思就是你們很努力在做，成果還沒出來，成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦！"],["陳處長美彤：對，委員，所以您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力，因為輔助人力快，他今年報考試，明年就可以到位……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我的問題不在這裡啦！"],["陳處長美彤：所以我們大量增加法官助理，其實書記官我們也是增加很多人。"],["莊委員瑞雄：當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清，但我的重點不在這個地方，我的重點是人力確實缺少……"],["陳處長美彤：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：蔡部長，我想司法院的法官會碰到這個問題，你們的檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊！"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你看你們的人力這樣夠嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：當然不夠……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你看這幾年你們一直在講打詐，對不對？整個刑事案件，不管是檢察官或者法官，每一個新收的案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的，現在一個詐欺案件，有車手，有共犯，有的沒有的一堆，牽涉的範圍很廣泛，常常都是一個案件裡面牽涉到幾十個被告，嚇死人！情節也非常複雜，我相信法官及檢察官的人力都吃緊，你們法務部這邊的人力部分怎麼樣？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們也是極力爭取，還增額，包括從109年就增加110個，110年就增加187個，111年之後4年增加600個，這是我們努力去爭取，但還是不夠，後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理，去年給我們100個，今年要再增加150個，但是最終還是要法制化，就是法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有實際的名額，所以我們都有在努力；當然工作的減量也是要做的，你說的詐欺案件很多，同樣的被害人分散在各地，每一案檢察官都一樣要處理被告，現在我們把被告集中，所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署，由警察彙整以後送給地檢署來處理，我們都有工作的配套來減量。"],["莊委員瑞雄：依我們現在司法人員的社會公信，我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力，你知道嗎？但本席倒是認為，司法案件不管是怎麼審，民調都不會高，涉及到兩造，一個案子審出來，我跟你講，搞不好原告也不滿意，被告也不滿意，甚至連法官做出來的判決，評議出來以後，你們自己都會覺得不滿意啦！連檢察官起訴以後，法官判出來，搞不好法官判的連檢察官都不滿意啦！所以才會有上訴制度，這樣怎麼會高？司法的性質本來就不容易得到社會很高的一個公信，但是這個本來就是不管是檢察官、不管是法務部或司法院要去努力的一個地方。人力到底足不足？只用我們的比，我想司法院你也覺得不足，法務部你也覺得不足，我們去比較其他世界各國，我們也很清楚，以德國為例，10萬人、27個法官，秘書長，我們臺灣幾個人分配幾個法官，我們10萬人分配幾個法官？"],["吳秘書長三龍：我們現在法官有2,100……"],["莊委員瑞雄：不是啊！我說德國10萬人、27個，我們臺灣10萬人幾個？9個，也就是說，我們的整個法官人數去跟其他國家比較的話，你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的壓力。這一些法官的控訴，秘書長你有沒有看到我剛才說的那些法官的控訴，你要怎麼給這些司法第一線的法官一點解釋？當然，你們剛剛有提到說人力的評估機制要從總員額來看，你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉，秘書長？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個當然要齊頭並進，總員額法當然要能夠提高上限，我們內部有一部分我們自己要如何裁判書簡化，這一部分還是要繼續努力。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們做具體一點，我們司法及法制委員會支持你們啦！這個問題吵了幾年了，這樣不是辦法，司法要改革的地方確實是很多，像現在廢除以結案為中心的管理考核機制，我看許宗力院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說，已延長刑事詐欺案件辦案期限以外，另將研議放寬相關管考規定，且對於法官職務之評定，不以法官未結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準。這對，但是你也不能講說，有的法官、有的檢察官都把案子丟著，結案數不當成他評分的一個標準、管考的一個標準，這也不對；但是不能把它當成是唯一，這是對的。","最後我要呼籲，這麼多實務界的法官的呼籲，大部分都在講整個案件的數量，社會一直進步以後，一定會面臨各式各樣不同的犯罪手法，各樣的刑事案件你一定都會遇到，這只是說刑事而已，民事的部分還沒有拿出來講，可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分，我們請司法院或者法務部，對這些建議還有評鑑機制的精進，要有更積極的作為出來，我不會用吶喊式的罵你們，那都不會進步，我覺得用支持的，你們才會進步，但是支持有一個前提，你們要提出整個積極而有效的措施出來，這樣你們做秘書長，雖然部長馬上要卸任，但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久，應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方，你們有這個責任，好不好？你覺得怎樣，秘書長？"],["吳秘書長三龍：是，我們一定會努力，要齊頭並進，最主要就是剛剛講的要齊頭並進。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我從讀書的時候就聽到司法改革了，我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革了，喊了幾十年了，我當第四屆的立法委員了，我沒有看到我們司法得到更好的評價，這個是我心裡頭覺得很遺憾、很痛心的一個地方，大家都有責任，你也有責任，國會也有責任，秘書長，語重心長啦！真的啦！"],["吳秘書長三龍：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，謝謝秘書長，謝謝部長。","接下來有請黃委員國昌發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":250,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-16","speakers":["鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","林思銘","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","賴士葆","傅崐萁"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就「如何透過行政簡化、訴訟減量與科技運\n用以降低基層司法體系負擔之成效與精進期程」進行專案報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133301_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"151617","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151617","tool":"pyannote","id":"151617-pyannote"},"job_id":"VXZH2ZfaK0yPPzaC","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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0.998}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 725.673, \"end\": 725.973, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"屆\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 725.973, \"end\": 726.073, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 726.073, \"end\": 726.173, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 726.173, \"end\": 726.353, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 726.353, \"end\": 727.773, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 727.773, \"end\": 727.853, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 727.853, \"end\": 727.954, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 727.954, \"end\": 728.074, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 728.074, \"end\": 728.234, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 728.234, \"end\": 728.374, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 728.374, \"end\": 728.674, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 728.674, \"end\": 728.874, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 728.874, 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{\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 733.374, \"end\": 733.394, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,195 --> 00:00:25,264\n謝謝主席要請我們法務部蔡部長還有我們司法院秘書長有請蔡部長和吳秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:31,501 --> 00:00:52,019\n剛才那個秘書所屬相這個大家說的解說兩件事叫你們表態我是覺得比較沒意思啦你們是要怎麼表態大法官尤其是憲法法庭他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的一個法庭啊哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的一個大會會議的一個解釋出來以後啊一筆錢都比較大\n\n3\n00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:11,087\n我記得我從大一開始幾個有名的問題要不要廢除死刑這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在討論這個問題當年還有同婚的問題\n\n4\n00:01:17,191 --> 00:01:41,910\n還有那個代理運聞的問題啦這個東西你看幾十年後啊都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是呢這個大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定啊那確實是很難啊各個機關裡面呢去受到他的去對他有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部\n\n5\n00:01:43,511 --> 00:02:11,071\n發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家要好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較\n\n6\n00:02:13,974 --> 00:02:24,486\n今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面\n\n7\n00:02:26,989 --> 00:02:41,724\n值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22%\n\n8\n00:02:46,289 --> 00:03:05,174\n司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定非常緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講\n\n9\n00:03:07,054 --> 00:03:17,660\n我不曉得兩位都是法律人來相談問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給383個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧捐軋的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴映照增加167還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有捐軋125捐軋6%而已\n\n10\n00:03:36,857 --> 00:04:00,002\n那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話\n\n11\n00:04:01,072 --> 00:04:12,921\n秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有人在質疑啊?我們那個還有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字\n\n12\n00:04:14,995 --> 00:04:43,778\n這個補充抱歉喔還是先給我們回答一下委員容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從一百人事總署從一百零八年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在一百一十年\n\n13\n00:04:44,238 --> 00:04:51,286\n因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額\n\n14\n00:05:01,877 --> 00:05:31,697\n那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報的要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦\n\n15\n00:05:31,817 --> 00:05:53,015\n財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你給我看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞\n\n16\n00:05:57,802 --> 00:06:25,577\n這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多\n\n17\n00:06:26,337 --> 00:06:30,140\n我也是極力的爭取和爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年就增加一百八十個\n\n18\n00:06:45,971 --> 00:07:12,933\n一百一十一年後四年增加六百個這是我努力去爭取但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個幾年今年要再增加百五個但是最終還是要法制化就是說法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以我們都開始努力當然工作的減量也是要做你說的詐欺案件\n\n19\n00:07:13,854 --> 00:07:30,532\n就算同樣的被害人分散在各地每一案檢察官都要一樣處理被告現在我們把被告集中所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署由警察會診以後送給地檢署來處理都有工作的配套來減量\n\n20\n00:07:32,403 --> 00:07:47,305\n一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審\n\n21\n00:07:48,800 --> 00:08:10,299\n民調都不會管啦涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦原告他搞不好也不滿意啦被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦\n\n22\n00:08:10,899 --> 00:08:38,927\n沒有上訴制度所以他會管司法的性質本來就不容易讓社會去得到很高的一個公信但是這個就是你本來我們不管是講法官不管法務部或是司法院我們要去努力的一個地方人力到底足不足啊只要用我們的筆我想司法院你也覺得不足啊法務部你也覺得不足啊我們比比較其他世界各國我們也很清楚啊以德國為例10萬人27個法官\n\n23\n00:08:41,172 --> 00:09:09,568\n秘書長,我們台灣整個人分配多少法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人27個啦,我們台灣10萬人整個9個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴\n\n24\n00:09:10,694 --> 00:09:27,812\n秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,你不要讓我這個司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長\n\n25\n00:09:32,322 --> 00:09:49,654\n這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總緣而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較古鐵的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦\n\n26\n00:09:53,607 --> 00:10:18,634\n這樣不是辦法啦你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中麗院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對\n\n27\n00:10:20,234 --> 00:10:44,224\n但是你也不能講說那個結案數我的感覺關不當成評分的一個標準管考的一個標準這也不對這也不對但是不能把它當成是唯一這是對的但是我是最後我要呼籲就是說這麼多實務界的法官這樣的一個呼籲大部分都在講這個整個案件的一個數量這社會一直進步起來之後\n\n28\n00:10:49,008 --> 00:11:07,445\n一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同,各樣的刑事案件,你們一定都會遇到,這是我們說刑事而已,民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說,可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分,我們請司法院或者法務部這邊對這些建議,還有評鑑的一個機制的精進,要有更積極的一個作為出來。\n\n29\n00:11:14,031 --> 00:11:41,394\n我不會像他那樣用吶喊式的跟你們罵的那些人都不會進步啦我會跟你們用機器的你們才會進步但是支持有一個前提啊你們要提出整個積極而有效的這一些措施出來這樣你們做這個做秘書長雖然部長認不認識了啊認不認識社群但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方你們有這個責任\n\n30\n00:11:45,807 --> 00:12:10,514\n我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭並進最主要剛剛講齊頭並進我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較\n\n31\n00:12:13,274 --> 00:12:13,394\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18195\t25264\t謝謝主席 要請我們法務部蔡部長 還有我們司法院秘書長有請蔡部長和吳秘書長\n31501\t52019\t剛才那個秘書所屬相這個 大家說的解說 兩件事叫你們表態我是覺得比較沒意思啦 你們是要怎麼表態大法官尤其是憲法法庭 他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的一個法庭啊哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的一個大會會議的一個解釋出來以後啊 一筆錢都比較大\n60700\t71087\t我記得我從大一開始幾個有名的問題要不要廢除死刑這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在討論這個問題當年還有同婚的問題\n77191\t101910\t還有那個代理運聞的問題啦這個東西你看幾十年後啊都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是呢這個大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定啊那確實是很難啊各個機關裡面呢去受到他的去對他有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部\n103511\t131071\t發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家要好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較\n133974\t144486\t今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面\n146989\t161724\t值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22%\n166289\t185174\t司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定非常緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講\n187054\t197660\t我不曉得兩位都是法律人來相談問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給383個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧捐軋的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴映照增加167 還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有捐軋125捐軋6%而已\n216857\t240002\t那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話\n241072\t252921\t秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有人在質疑啊?我們那個 還有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數 人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字\n254995\t283778\t這個補充抱歉喔 還是先給我們回答一下委員容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從一百人事總署從一百零八年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在一百一十年\n284238\t291286\t因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額\n301877\t331697\t那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報的要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦\n331817\t353015\t財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你給我看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞\n357802\t385577\t這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔 怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多\n386337\t390140\t我也是極力的爭取和爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年就增加一百八十個\n405971\t432933\t一百一十一年 後四年 增加六百個這是我努力去爭取 但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個 幾年 今年要再增加百五個但是最終還是要法制化就是說法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以我們都開始努力當然工作的減量也是要做你說的詐欺案件\n433854\t450532\t就算同樣的被害人分散在各地每一案檢察官都要一樣處理被告現在我們把被告集中所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署由警察會診以後送給地檢署來處理都有工作的配套來減量\n452403\t467305\t一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審\n468800\t490299\t民調都不會管啦涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦原告他搞不好也不滿意啦被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦\n490899\t518927\t沒有上訴制度所以他會管司法的性質本來就不容易讓社會去得到很高的一個公信但是這個就是你本來我們不管是講法官不管法務部或是司法院我們要去努力的一個地方人力到底足不足啊只要用我們的筆我想司法院你也覺得不足啊法務部你也覺得不足啊我們比比較其他世界各國我們也很清楚啊以德國為例10萬人27個法官\n521172\t549568\t秘書長,我們台灣整個人分配多少法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人27個啦,我們台灣10萬人整個9個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴\n550694\t567812\t秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,你不要讓我這個司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長\n572322\t589654\t這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總緣而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較古鐵的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦\n593607\t618634\t這樣不是辦法啦你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中麗院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對\n620234\t644224\t但是你也不能講說那個結案數 我的感覺關不當成評分的一個標準管考的一個標準 這也不對這也不對 但是不能把它當成是唯一這是對的 但是我是最後我要呼籲就是說這麼多實務界的法官這樣的一個呼籲大部分都在講這個整個案件的一個數量這社會一直進步起來之後\n649008\t667445\t一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同,各樣的刑事案件,你們一定都會遇到,這是我們說刑事而已,民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說,可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分,我們請司法院或者法務部這邊對這些建議,還有評鑑的一個機制的精進,要有更積極的一個作為出來。\n674031\t701394\t我不會像他那樣用吶喊式的跟你們罵的那些人都不會進步啦我會跟你們用機器的你們才會進步但是支持有一個前提啊你們要提出整個積極而有效的這一些措施出來這樣你們做這個做秘書長雖然部長認不認識了啊認不認識社群但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方你們有這個責任\n705807\t730514\t我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭並進最主要剛剛講齊頭並進我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較\n733274\t733394\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 要請我們法務部蔡部長 還有我們司法院秘書長有請蔡部長和吳秘書長\n剛才那個秘書所屬相這個 大家說的解說 兩件事叫你們表態我是覺得比較沒意思啦 你們是要怎麼表態大法官尤其是憲法法庭 他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的一個法庭啊哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的一個大會會議的一個解釋出來以後啊 一筆錢都比較大\n我記得我從大一開始幾個有名的問題要不要廢除死刑這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在討論這個問題當年還有同婚的問題\n還有那個代理運聞的問題啦這個東西你看幾十年後啊都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是呢這個大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定啊那確實是很難啊各個機關裡面呢去受到他的去對他有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部\n發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家要好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較\n今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面\n值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22%\n司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定非常緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講\n我不曉得兩位都是法律人來相談問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給383個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧捐軋的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴映照增加167 還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有捐軋125捐軋6%而已\n那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話\n秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有人在質疑啊?我們那個 還有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數 人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字\n這個補充抱歉喔 還是先給我們回答一下委員容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從一百人事總署從一百零八年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在一百一十年\n因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額\n那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報的要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦\n財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你給我看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞\n這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔 怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多\n我也是極力的爭取和爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年就增加一百八十個\n一百一十一年 後四年 增加六百個這是我努力去爭取 但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個 幾年 今年要再增加百五個但是最終還是要法制化就是說法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以我們都開始努力當然工作的減量也是要做你說的詐欺案件\n就算同樣的被害人分散在各地每一案檢察官都要一樣處理被告現在我們把被告集中所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署由警察會診以後送給地檢署來處理都有工作的配套來減量\n一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審\n民調都不會管啦涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦原告他搞不好也不滿意啦被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦\n沒有上訴制度所以他會管司法的性質本來就不容易讓社會去得到很高的一個公信但是這個就是你本來我們不管是講法官不管法務部或是司法院我們要去努力的一個地方人力到底足不足啊只要用我們的筆我想司法院你也覺得不足啊法務部你也覺得不足啊我們比比較其他世界各國我們也很清楚啊以德國為例10萬人27個法官\n秘書長,我們台灣整個人分配多少法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人27個啦,我們台灣10萬人整個9個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴\n秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,你不要讓我這個司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長\n這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總緣而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較古鐵的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦\n這樣不是辦法啦你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中麗院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對\n但是你也不能講說那個結案數 我的感覺關不當成評分的一個標準管考的一個標準 這也不對這也不對 但是不能把它當成是唯一這是對的 但是我是最後我要呼籲就是說這麼多實務界的法官這樣的一個呼籲大部分都在講這個整個案件的一個數量這社會一直進步起來之後\n一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同,各樣的刑事案件,你們一定都會遇到,這是我們說刑事而已,民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說,可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分,我們請司法院或者法務部這邊對這些建議,還有評鑑的一個機制的精進,要有更積極的一個作為出來。\n我不會像他那樣用吶喊式的跟你們罵的那些人都不會進步啦我會跟你們用機器的你們才會進步但是支持有一個前提啊你們要提出整個積極而有效的這一些措施出來這樣你們做這個做秘書長雖然部長認不認識了啊認不認識社群但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方你們有這個責任\n我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭並進最主要剛剛講齊頭並進我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.195 --> 00:25.264\n謝謝主席要請我們法務部蔡部長還有我們司法院秘書長有請蔡部長和吳秘書長\n\n00:31.501 --> 00:52.019\n剛才那個秘書所屬相這個大家說的解說兩件事叫你們表態我是覺得比較沒意思啦你們是要怎麼表態大法官尤其是憲法法庭他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的一個法庭啊哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的一個大會會議的一個解釋出來以後啊一筆錢都比較大\n\n01:00.700 --> 01:11.087\n我記得我從大一開始幾個有名的問題要不要廢除死刑這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在討論這個問題當年還有同婚的問題\n\n01:17.191 --> 01:41.910\n還有那個代理運聞的問題啦這個東西你看幾十年後啊都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是呢這個大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定啊那確實是很難啊各個機關裡面呢去受到他的去對他有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部\n\n01:43.511 --> 02:11.071\n發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家要好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較\n\n02:13.974 --> 02:24.486\n今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面\n\n02:26.989 --> 02:41.724\n值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22%\n\n02:46.289 --> 03:05.174\n司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定非常緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講\n\n03:07.054 --> 03:17.660\n我不曉得兩位都是法律人來相談問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給383個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧捐軋的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴映照增加167還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有捐軋125捐軋6%而已\n\n03:36.857 --> 04:00.002\n那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話\n\n04:01.072 --> 04:12.921\n秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有人在質疑啊?我們那個還有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字\n\n04:14.995 --> 04:43.778\n這個補充抱歉喔還是先給我們回答一下委員容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從一百人事總署從一百零八年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在一百一十年\n\n04:44.238 --> 04:51.286\n因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額\n\n05:01.877 --> 05:31.697\n那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報的要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦\n\n05:31.817 --> 05:53.015\n財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你給我看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞\n\n05:57.802 --> 06:25.577\n這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多\n\n06:26.337 --> 06:30.140\n我也是極力的爭取和爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年就增加一百八十個\n\n06:45.971 --> 07:12.933\n一百一十一年後四年增加六百個這是我努力去爭取但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個幾年今年要再增加百五個但是最終還是要法制化就是說法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以我們都開始努力當然工作的減量也是要做你說的詐欺案件\n\n07:13.854 --> 07:30.532\n就算同樣的被害人分散在各地每一案檢察官都要一樣處理被告現在我們把被告集中所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署由警察會診以後送給地檢署來處理都有工作的配套來減量\n\n07:32.403 --> 07:47.305\n一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審\n\n07:48.800 --> 08:10.299\n民調都不會管啦涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦原告他搞不好也不滿意啦被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦\n\n08:10.899 --> 08:38.927\n沒有上訴制度所以他會管司法的性質本來就不容易讓社會去得到很高的一個公信但是這個就是你本來我們不管是講法官不管法務部或是司法院我們要去努力的一個地方人力到底足不足啊只要用我們的筆我想司法院你也覺得不足啊法務部你也覺得不足啊我們比比較其他世界各國我們也很清楚啊以德國為例10萬人27個法官\n\n08:41.172 --> 09:09.568\n秘書長,我們台灣整個人分配多少法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人27個啦,我們台灣10萬人整個9個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴\n\n09:10.694 --> 09:27.812\n秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,你不要讓我這個司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長\n\n09:32.322 --> 09:49.654\n這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總緣而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較古鐵的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦\n\n09:53.607 --> 10:18.634\n這樣不是辦法啦你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中麗院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對\n\n10:20.234 --> 10:44.224\n但是你也不能講說那個結案數我的感覺關不當成評分的一個標準管考的一個標準這也不對這也不對但是不能把它當成是唯一這是對的但是我是最後我要呼籲就是說這麼多實務界的法官這樣的一個呼籲大部分都在講這個整個案件的一個數量這社會一直進步起來之後\n\n10:49.008 --> 11:07.445\n一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同,各樣的刑事案件,你們一定都會遇到,這是我們說刑事而已,民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說,可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分,我們請司法院或者法務部這邊對這些建議,還有評鑑的一個機制的精進,要有更積極的一個作為出來。\n\n11:14.031 --> 11:41.394\n我不會像他那樣用吶喊式的跟你們罵的那些人都不會進步啦我會跟你們用機器的你們才會進步但是支持有一個前提啊你們要提出整個積極而有效的這一些措施出來這樣你們做這個做秘書長雖然部長認不認識了啊認不認識社群但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方你們有這個責任\n\n11:45.807 --> 12:10.514\n我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭並進最主要剛剛講齊頭並進我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較\n\n12:13.274 --> 12:13.394\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.195,"end":25.264,"text":"謝謝主席 要請我們法務部蔡部長 還有我們司法院秘書長有請蔡部長和吳秘書長"},{"start":31.501,"end":52.019,"text":"剛才那個秘書所屬相這個 大家說的解說 兩件事叫你們表態我是覺得比較沒意思啦 你們是要怎麼表態大法官尤其是憲法法庭 他不是哪一個政黨的憲法的一個法庭啊哪怕說他做出來的一個憲法法庭的一個大會會議的一個解釋出來以後啊 一筆錢都比較大"},{"start":60.7,"end":71.087,"text":"我記得我從大一開始幾個有名的問題要不要廢除死刑這個在法學院一年級裡面大家都在討論這個問題當年還有同婚的問題"},{"start":77.191,"end":101.91,"text":"還有那個代理運聞的問題啦這個東西你看幾十年後啊都是社會上碰到的問題社會是在進步的但是呢這個大法官這整個憲法法庭會做出什麼樣的一個決定啊那確實是很難啊各個機關裡面呢去受到他的去對他有任何的一個影響我也不認為說法務部"},{"start":103.511,"end":131.071,"text":"發表你們的聲明完以後還要去大家要好像要每一個人都要去影響去主導整個憲法法庭這些大法官他們對整個憲政所做出的一個解釋對法律的說出一個解釋到底是不是合憲但是有幾個問題我倒是要來關心不管是司法院或者法務部我今天早上看到本來是士林地院那個法官比較"},{"start":133.974,"end":144.486,"text":"今天也看到高等法院成行法官議事醒過來了這個是比較值得欣慰的一個地方但也代表這個工作環境那確實是壓力甚至於大家講說這個過勞這個案件裡面"},{"start":146.989,"end":161.724,"text":"值得兩位部長跟秘書長好好地去做一個省思你說從台灣各地方法院新收案量來看刑事案件於2021年的41多萬件上升到2023年50多萬件案量3年內成長了22%"},{"start":166.289,"end":185.174,"text":"司法人力不管檢察官或法官都一定非常緊繃我看日前司法院許中立院長公開回信裡面司法師傅的困境也引起了很多法官的不滿雲林地安法院、台北地院、桃園地院、高雄地院法官在專欄裡面也去講"},{"start":187.054,"end":197.66,"text":"我不曉得兩位都是法律人來相談問題出在什麼地方翁毓昇前院長被你引來發官給383個這可能秘書長你待會回答吧捐軋的比例22.96賴浩敏6年內增加228增幅12.3那任期只有3年的賴映照增加167 還有9.9現在許中立院長7年多現在人家跟他說只有捐軋125捐軋6%而已"},{"start":216.857,"end":240.002,"text":"那這個儘管在我們2019年修正中央政府機關的總原額法將原額上限從13900提升到15000補充1100的一個人力但是你法官只增加124其他都是書記官337法官助理426這當然就是其他都是輔助人力法官原額實際上也沒有增加可是以現在來看的話"},{"start":241.072,"end":252.921,"text":"秘書長是不是可以解釋一下?有人在質疑啊?我們那個 還有增加的人數是比較多啦我們人數 人數處長有一個很精準的一個數字"},{"start":254.995,"end":283.778,"text":"這個補充抱歉喔 還是先給我們回答一下委員容我報告一下就是說因為我們一個司法官的考試因為法官的來源主要是司法官特考那一個司法官特考從考試到分發需要三年的時間所以許院長的任期前三年分發的法官事實上是前一任的院長提報考試需用名額的那其實我們從一百人事總署從一百零八年底修正了機關總原額法之後那個預算的增加是實現在一百一十年"},{"start":284.238,"end":291.286,"text":"因為109年的預算在108年年中就已經編列完成了所以真正要增加原額是從110年開始那所以我們從109年開始報告那個法官續用名額是大量的提報以109年到113年來講我們總共報了448個法官續用名額"},{"start":301.877,"end":331.697,"text":"那只是說像我們從112年開始報考的都要到115年111年啊開始報的要114年才能分發對不對那都不是許院長任期內他任期今年屆滿的話都是下一任的院長會開始收成這個所增加的法官的這個餘額所以說許院長這個任期內只有增加法官124人其實不是很公平的說法所以你們的意思就是說你們很努力在做啦成果還沒出來啦成果到最後是下一任的人會收成啦"},{"start":331.817,"end":353.015,"text":"財政委員您看我們為什麼都增加在輔助人力因為輔助人力還快他今年報考是明年就可以到位所以我們大量增加法官助理那個其實書記官我們也是增加很多人當然報載我就要讓你們去澄清了但我的重點不在這個地方了我的重點是人力確實缺少蔡部長你像我像司法院法官會碰到這個問題你檢察官也會碰到這個問題啊你給我看你們的家庭這樣搞不搞"},{"start":357.802,"end":385.577,"text":"這幾年你看你們一直在講說打詐啦那整個刑事案件大家不管是檢察官或者法官每一個新收的一個案件量從過去的十幾件飆到也有破百件的那這些喔你看一下你們現在一個詐欺案件看起來又車手啦有的沒的啦共犯啦一堆啦這個牽涉的範圍很廣泛啦常常都是一個案件裡面喔 怕死人牽涉的就幾十個被告的情節也非常複雜我相信法官跟檢察官人力多"},{"start":386.337,"end":390.14,"text":"我也是極力的爭取和爭額,包括從110年,從109年到110年,110年就增加一百八十個"},{"start":405.971,"end":432.933,"text":"一百一十一年 後四年 增加六百個這是我努力去爭取 但是還是不夠後來也有再爭取到檢察官助理不然我們一百個 幾年 今年要再增加百五個但是最終還是要法制化就是說法院組織法可以訂定檢察官助理有一個實際的名額所以我們都開始努力當然工作的減量也是要做你說的詐欺案件"},{"start":433.854,"end":450.532,"text":"就算同樣的被害人分散在各地每一案檢察官都要一樣處理被告現在我們把被告集中所有的被害人都集中同一個地檢署由警察會診以後送給地檢署來處理都有工作的配套來減量"},{"start":452.403,"end":467.305,"text":"一、我們現在司法人員的社會的一個公信我們來幫你們爭取這一些其實都有一點壓力你知道嗎但本席倒是認為說司法案件不管是怎麼審"},{"start":468.8,"end":490.299,"text":"民調都不會管啦涉及到兩招啦一個案子審出來我跟你講啦原告他搞不好也不滿意啦被告也不滿意啦連法官搞不好到最後你對於甚至於是你做出來的一個判決你評議出來以後啊你們都會覺得自己都覺得不滿意啦連檢察官起訴以後法官判出來搞不好法官判的人檢察官都不滿意啦"},{"start":490.899,"end":518.927,"text":"沒有上訴制度所以他會管司法的性質本來就不容易讓社會去得到很高的一個公信但是這個就是你本來我們不管是講法官不管法務部或是司法院我們要去努力的一個地方人力到底足不足啊只要用我們的筆我想司法院你也覺得不足啊法務部你也覺得不足啊我們比比較其他世界各國我們也很清楚啊以德國為例10萬人27個法官"},{"start":521.172,"end":549.568,"text":"秘書長,我們台灣整個人分配多少法官?我們10萬人分配幾個法官?現在法官有2100不是啊,我說帝國10萬人27個啦,我們台灣10萬人整個9個所以也就是說我們去跟其他國家來做比較的話我們整個法官人數啊你可以想像這些司法工作者他們要面對多大的一個壓力啊那是不是啊,你看這一些法官在控訴"},{"start":550.694,"end":567.812,"text":"秘書長你有沒有看到?我剛才說的法官的控訴,你不要讓我這個司法第一線的法官給他一點解釋當然你們剛剛有提到啦,說這個人力的評估的一個機制,要從總院後來看那你們到底什麼時候有辦法把這個問題解決掉?秘書長"},{"start":572.322,"end":589.654,"text":"這個當然要乞託並進啦就是總緣而法當然要能夠提高上限啦那我們內部當然有一部分我們自己也要如何裁判所簡化這一部分還是要繼續努力啦您創作比較古鐵的啦我們司法法制委員會我們跟你集齊啦這個問題吵了幾年了啦"},{"start":593.607,"end":618.634,"text":"這樣不是辦法啦你像比如說真的司法改革的地方要改革的地方確實是很多啦你像現在以廢除以結案為中心的管理考核的一個機制我看許中麗院長在4月12號寫給法官的信也講說以延長刑事詐欺案件的辦案期限以外另將研議犯官相關管考的一個規定對於法官職務的評定不以法官為結案數多寡當成唯一的一個標準這對"},{"start":620.234,"end":644.224,"text":"但是你也不能講說那個結案數 我的感覺關不當成評分的一個標準管考的一個標準 這也不對這也不對 但是不能把它當成是唯一這是對的 但是我是最後我要呼籲就是說這麼多實務界的法官這樣的一個呼籲大部分都在講這個整個案件的一個數量這社會一直進步起來之後"},{"start":649.008,"end":667.445,"text":"一定會面臨各式各樣的一個犯罪手法不同,各樣的刑事案件,你們一定都會遇到,這是我們說刑事而已,民事會博文又沒有什麼出來說,可能就沒有那麼嚴重。像這個部分,我們請司法院或者法務部這邊對這些建議,還有評鑑的一個機制的精進,要有更積極的一個作為出來。"},{"start":674.031,"end":701.394,"text":"我不會像他那樣用吶喊式的跟你們罵的那些人都不會進步啦我會跟你們用機器的你們才會進步但是支持有一個前提啊你們要提出整個積極而有效的這一些措施出來這樣你們做這個做秘書長雖然部長認不認識了啊認不認識社群但是我相信你對司法努力這麼久應該是法務部這個地方跟司法院這個地方你們有這個責任"},{"start":705.807,"end":730.514,"text":"我們一定會努力就是說要齊頭並進最主要剛剛講齊頭並進我從上大學就一直在聽司法改革喊了這幾十年我當第四屆的立法委員我沒有看到我們司法受到更好的一個評價這個是我心裡頭比較"},{"start":733.274,"end":733.394,"text":"主席"}]}}}}