{"id":151627,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151627","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3e2a6941f6e7b311fa8d86c0863c2f2caeadb1108e4b84432578e89e1067bee505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:22:33 - 10:30:44","影片長度":"00:08:11","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案。\n二、審查：\n（一）行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-9"},"duration":491,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:30:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:22:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":347,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時22分）謝謝主席，請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，今天我們特別針對工輔法有一些修正的條文要來審查，尤其是去年9月屏東科技園區的明揚國際科技公司，他們因為沒有如實申報化學物品的存量，導致我們消防隊隊員們對這個火災現場的狀況無法正確來判斷，造成4名弟兄罹難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條要來做修正，針對工廠的危險物品，未如實申報的、申報不實的或違反申報的，我們原來是罰1到5萬，現在要罰5到500萬。","現在本席要提醒的是，因為有些不實的申報或是規避申報，尤其有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內，譬如說物流業或者是倉儲業的倉儲設施裡面的話，那我們要如何去規範、管理，把這個範圍擴大？以桃園來講，根據本席統計，112年2月，桃園就有2,300家了，所以我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍及申報的場所？"],["王部長美花：事實上，按照消防法的規定，倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品，本來就都要符合消防法相關可以存放的量以及消防法規……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們有去檢查嗎？像昨天屏東那個倉儲大火，而且嗶嗶啵啵，有爆炸的聲音，這就是有危險物品，所以我們如何去加強管制？"],["王部長美花：它有沒有危險物品我們會去查，因為它是屬於特登工廠，我們會去瞭解屏東的這個部分。"],["呂委員玉玲：本席之所以會這麼提，因為有些工廠就是規避我們的管理，我們必須全面去管理，如果它把危險物品存放在工廠的話，是符合我們規定的，但是放在倉儲業那邊是大量的，那該怎麼辦呢？"],["王部長美花：以桃園為例，倉儲業它有的是放在特區，有一些是在一般的區域，我們也曾經跨部會去討論過，地方的主管機關對倉儲業確實應該要加強盤查。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們把它納管進去，全面管理才是最安全的，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是，我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們現在除了開罰之外，我們還要讓它的所有設施有一個妥善性的改善，好不好？"],["王部長美花：對，我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報，事先告訴他們，要怎麼做管理……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，要做安全管理。它存放的地點除了工廠，還有可能是倉儲，把倉儲放進去、倉儲的設施這些放進去，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：安全是最重要的。再來，本席要提一個老問題，就是停電的問題，部長，我們知道台電第一線員工他們在執行搶修、維修等等工程是非常辛苦的，疲於奔命，但是能源政策要規劃得好，如果規劃得很爛的話，他們真的是辛苦再辛苦，又危險，尤其是現在我們包括整個台電完善配電設施的維修，還有加強維修，光是我們桃園這幾天，你看看，有十幾次停電。所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統強韌計畫，在2023年，我們再提了5年的配電系統升級計畫，就是要來減少停電的發生，尤其是2023年提了這個提升、升級的配電強韌計畫，未來我們會減少到多少呢？"],["王部長美花：會減少到多少，現在沒有辦法講數字，但是確實在配電系統這個部分，我們儘量讓它可以自動來偵測，或者如果有壞掉，可以自動轉換相關的設備，確實經費裡面有增加，趕快來做相關的汰換。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們來看以前的資料，我特別去調了一些資料，配電系統停電次數，2020年到2023年配電系統停電的次數是有減少，看起來是有減少，但是部長你再細看一下，如果超過五百戶的數量是增加的，這代表什麼？範圍增加，影響的戶數也在增加，是不是這樣子？"],["王部長美花：因為人口稠密的多，除了這個次數之外，其實要看……"],["呂委員玉玲：這就是範圍增加啦！"],["王部長美花：但是要看這個停電的部分在幾分鐘之內去把它解決，事實上，非常多停電的次數都在很短的時間就解決掉。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以趕快把你的計畫做出來，最重要的是，今年我們有很多發電廠都要除役，民間的也都合約到期了，雖然我們看到一些資料，像我們的興達電廠1號、2號機要除役，還有民營的麥寮電廠1號機、2號機合約也都到期了，再加上核三廠1號機也將在7月除役，這部分會減少的總量是315萬瓩，但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的電裡面，已經可以補這個缺口的部分，你說民營的部分有森霸豐德3號機、大潭的7號跟9號機，還有興達新的1號機，補上來的有443萬瓩的電力。雖然新發電的多於要停掉的電力，但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題，在415的時候，備轉容量只剩下2.8%，現在如果這些補上來的話，我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能夠穩定？"],["王部長美花：415這個部分確實是因為機組壞掉，地震造成增加的機組壞掉，所以才會在瞬間有備轉容量降得比較低的情況。至於委員講的，到今年我們新增的機組確實比除役的機組多，這個備轉容量的部分，我們都會維持在10%……"],["呂委員玉玲：一般要多少才能夠穩定的配電、輸電？我們是12%到15%，現在你看只有2.8%，這是很危險的，何況今年有這麼多要除役、合約到期的，你雖然有其他電補上來，但是你要試轉、要商轉、要點火，還要試運、試轉，這種情形會不會發生中斷、斷層而補不上來？這個都要先做好準備。"],["王部長美花：有，其實我們都有做細膩的規劃，另外，因為再生能源確實也有在增加，所以再生能源增加了之後，讓基載的電力也比較多樣化的調配，其實台電的專業都有在做這樣的規劃。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我再次重申，我們的能源規劃真的很爛，讓我們第一線的台電員工在執行的時候是疲於奔命，非常辛苦，請加強，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員。","接下來我們請楊瓊瓔委員發言。","主席宣告一下，待會11點鐘我們會先休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-9","speakers":["邱議瑩","黃建賓","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林思銘","林岱樺","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 491.281, \"end\": 491.302, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 491.302, \"end\": 491.322, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 491.322, \"end\": 491.343, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 491.343, \"end\": 491.363, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,145 --> 00:00:11,127\n謝謝主席,請王部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:18,630\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n3\n00:00:40,823 --> 00:01:02,571\n對員們對於火災現場的狀況無法正確判斷,造成了市民弟兄弟離難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對28之十四及三十一、三十九條要來修正。針對於工廠的危險物品,我們如果沒有為如實申報的\n\n4\n00:01:03,872 --> 00:01:21,694\n審報不實的或違反審報的,我們原來是一到五萬,現在要五到五百萬。現在本席要提醒的就是說,因為有些不實的審報或是規避審報,尤其是有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內,譬如說是\n\n5\n00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:30,027\n武流業或倉儲業的倉儲設施理念,我們要如何規範管理,把範圍擴大?如果講起桃園的話,我統計的話,112年的2月,桃園就有2300家了。所以,我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍跟他申報的場所呢?\n\n6\n00:01:48,567 --> 00:02:08,733\n事實上按照消防法的規定那個倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品本來就都要符合消防法相關的這個可以存放的量所以你們有去檢查嗎?像昨天屏東的話這個就是倉儲這個大火而且乒乓乓的有爆炸的聲音這就是有危險物品啊\n\n7\n00:02:09,213 --> 00:02:12,596\n所以我們如何去加強管制他有沒有危險物品我們會去查因為他是屬於特登工廠那這個我們會去了解屏東的這個部分因為本席會這麼提就是說有些工廠就是規避我們的管理我們必須要全面去管理他如果危險物品存放到工廠的話是符合我們規定的但是放到倉儲業那邊是大量的那是怎麼辦呢\n\n8\n00:02:32,355 --> 00:02:41,903\n長處業,因為它有一些,像以桃園為例,它有的是放在特區,那有一些是在一般的區域,那我們這個也曾經跨部會去討論過,那確實這個地方的主管機關對長處業應該確實要加強盤查。\n\n9\n00:02:48,308 --> 00:03:07,561\n是所以我們把納管進去全面管理才是最安全的好不好是是這個我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理所以我們現在除了說是開法之外我們還要完善去它所有這次的一個妥善性的一個改善\n\n10\n00:03:08,582 --> 00:03:26,897\n對,我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報,事先告訴他們要怎麼做管理。他存放的地點除了工廠還有可能是倉儲,把倉儲放進去,倉儲的設施直接放進去。這是安全最重要的。再來本席要提個老問題啦,就是停電的問題。\n\n11\n00:03:28,988 --> 00:03:55,282\n部長,我們知道臺電第一線員工他們在執行這個搶修、維修等等的工程,他們是非常辛苦的,疲於奔命。但是能源政策啊,這個規劃要規劃得好,如果規劃得很爛的話,他們真的是辛苦再辛苦,又危險。那尤其是現在我們包括我們的整個臺電完善配電的設施的維修,還有加強這個維修啊,\n\n12\n00:03:56,102 --> 00:04:25,303\n幫我們討厭這幾天啊你看看十幾次的停電啊那所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統的這個強振計畫在2023年的話我們還有再提了五年的配電系統的升級計畫這個就是要來減少我們停電的發生喔那尤其是這個2023年提的這個提升升級的這個配電這個強振計畫那未來我們會減少到多少呢\n\n13\n00:04:27,429 --> 00:04:30,050\n會減少到多少?現在沒有辦法講數字,但是確實在配電系統這個部分,我們盡量讓它可以自動來偵測,或者如果有壞掉可以自動轉換相關的設備,確實經費裡面有增加,趕快來做相關的汰換。」\n\n14\n00:04:47,097 --> 00:05:13,294\n所以我們看以前的資料我特別去調了一些資料配電系統這個停電的次數如果在2020年到2023年的配電系統停電的次數是有減少看起來是有減少但是部長你再近看一下如果超過500戶的這個數量是增加的這代表著什麼範圍增加影響的戶數也在增加\n\n15\n00:05:14,813 --> 00:05:16,534\n三十一條之十四、第三十一條及第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n16\n00:05:32,944 --> 00:05:33,244\n新達電廠一號、二號機要除役,還有民營的\n\n17\n00:05:54,151 --> 00:06:00,674\n賣寮電廠一號機、二號機合約也都到期了,再加上河山廠一號機也將在七月都除役,這個總會減少的總量是315萬瓦,但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的店裡面已經可以補這個缺口的部分,您說你民營的部分的話有這個\n\n18\n00:06:17,302 --> 00:06:42,079\n新霸、豐德三號機、大潭七號、九號機、新興達一號機,這個補上來的有443萬瓦的電力來補足。雖然說新發電的多於這個要停掉的這個電力,但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題。在415的時候備轉容量只剩下2.8%,\n\n19\n00:06:44,501 --> 00:07:13,337\n現在如果這些東西補上來的話,我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能穩定?415這個部分確實是因為基礎壞掉,那個地震造成的增加的基礎壞掉,所以才會在瞬間有這個備轉容量降得比較低。至於我們講的到今年的我們新增的基礎確實比除一的基礎多,那這個備轉容量的部分我們都會維持在這個10%。一般要多少?\n\n20\n00:07:13,697 --> 00:07:36,397\n才能夠穩定的配電輸電的。」因為我們的12%到15%嘛現在你看你只有2.8%這是很危險的何況今年這麼多要除役合約到期的你雖然有其他電補上來但是但是你還要試營你要試轉要商轉要點火還要試運試轉這種情形的話會不會中斷斷層的話補不上來這個都要\n\n21\n00:07:39,099 --> 00:07:39,979\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n22\n00:08:10,503 --> 00:08:11,363\n第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10145\t11127\t謝謝主席,請王部長\n17910\t18630\t第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n40823\t62571\t對員們對於火災現場的狀況無法正確判斷,造成了市民弟兄弟離難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對28之十四及三十一、三十九條要來修正。針對於工廠的危險物品,我們如果沒有為如實申報的\n63872\t81694\t審報不實的或違反審報的,我們原來是一到五萬,現在要五到五百萬。現在本席要提醒的就是說,因為有些不實的審報或是規避審報,尤其是有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內,譬如說是\n82920\t90027\t武流業或倉儲業的倉儲設施理念,我們要如何規範管理,把範圍擴大?如果講起桃園的話,我統計的話,112年的2月,桃園就有2300家了。所以,我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍跟他申報的場所呢?\n108567\t128733\t事實上按照消防法的規定那個倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品本來就都要符合消防法相關的這個可以存放的量所以你們有去檢查嗎?像昨天屏東的話這個就是倉儲這個大火而且乒乓乓的有爆炸的聲音這就是有危險物品啊\n129213\t132596\t所以我們如何去加強管制他有沒有危險物品我們會去查因為他是屬於特登工廠那這個我們會去了解屏東的這個部分因為本席會這麼提就是說有些工廠就是規避我們的管理我們必須要全面去管理他如果危險物品存放到工廠的話是符合我們規定的但是放到倉儲業那邊是大量的那是怎麼辦呢\n152355\t161903\t長處業,因為它有一些,像以桃園為例,它有的是放在特區,那有一些是在一般的區域,那我們這個也曾經跨部會去討論過,那確實這個地方的主管機關對長處業應該確實要加強盤查。\n168308\t187561\t是所以我們把納管進去全面管理才是最安全的好不好是是這個我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理所以我們現在除了說是開法之外我們還要完善去它所有這次的一個妥善性的一個改善\n188582\t206897\t對,我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報,事先告訴他們要怎麼做管理。他存放的地點除了工廠還有可能是倉儲,把倉儲放進去,倉儲的設施直接放進去。這是安全最重要的。再來本席要提個老問題啦,就是停電的問題。\n208988\t235282\t部長,我們知道臺電第一線員工他們在執行這個搶修、維修等等的工程,他們是非常辛苦的,疲於奔命。但是能源政策啊,這個規劃要規劃得好,如果規劃得很爛的話,他們真的是辛苦再辛苦,又危險。那尤其是現在我們包括我們的整個臺電完善配電的設施的維修,還有加強這個維修啊,\n236102\t265303\t幫我們討厭這幾天啊你看看十幾次的停電啊那所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統的這個強振計畫在2023年的話我們還有再提了五年的配電系統的升級計畫這個就是要來減少我們停電的發生喔那尤其是這個2023年提的這個提升升級的這個配電這個強振計畫那未來我們會減少到多少呢\n267429\t270050\t會減少到多少?現在沒有辦法講數字,但是確實在配電系統這個部分,我們盡量讓它可以自動來偵測,或者如果有壞掉可以自動轉換相關的設備,確實經費裡面有增加,趕快來做相關的汰換。」\n287097\t313294\t所以我們看以前的資料我特別去調了一些資料配電系統這個停電的次數如果在2020年到2023年的配電系統停電的次數是有減少看起來是有減少但是部長你再近看一下如果超過500戶的這個數量是增加的這代表著什麼範圍增加影響的戶數也在增加\n314813\t316534\t三十一條之十四、第三十一條及第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n332944\t333244\t新達電廠一號、二號機要除役,還有民營的\n354151\t360674\t賣寮電廠一號機、二號機合約也都到期了,再加上河山廠一號機也將在七月都除役,這個總會減少的總量是315萬瓦,但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的店裡面已經可以補這個缺口的部分,您說你民營的部分的話有這個\n377302\t402079\t新霸、豐德三號機、大潭七號、九號機、新興達一號機,這個補上來的有443萬瓦的電力來補足。雖然說新發電的多於這個要停掉的這個電力,但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題。在415的時候備轉容量只剩下2.8%,\n404501\t433337\t現在如果這些東西補上來的話,我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能穩定?415這個部分確實是因為基礎壞掉,那個地震造成的增加的基礎壞掉,所以才會在瞬間有這個備轉容量降得比較低。至於我們講的到今年的我們新增的基礎確實比除一的基礎多,那這個備轉容量的部分我們都會維持在這個10%。一般要多少?\n433697\t456397\t才能夠穩定的配電輸電的。」因為我們的12%到15%嘛現在你看你只有2.8%這是很危險的何況今年這麼多要除役合約到期的你雖然有其他電補上來但是但是你還要試營你要試轉要商轉要點火還要試運試轉這種情形的話會不會中斷斷層的話補不上來這個都要\n459099\t459979\t第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。\n490503\t491363\t第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n","txt":"謝謝主席,請王部長\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n對員們對於火災現場的狀況無法正確判斷,造成了市民弟兄弟離難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對28之十四及三十一、三十九條要來修正。針對於工廠的危險物品,我們如果沒有為如實申報的\n審報不實的或違反審報的,我們原來是一到五萬,現在要五到五百萬。現在本席要提醒的就是說,因為有些不實的審報或是規避審報,尤其是有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內,譬如說是\n武流業或倉儲業的倉儲設施理念,我們要如何規範管理,把範圍擴大?如果講起桃園的話,我統計的話,112年的2月,桃園就有2300家了。所以,我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍跟他申報的場所呢?\n事實上按照消防法的規定那個倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品本來就都要符合消防法相關的這個可以存放的量所以你們有去檢查嗎?像昨天屏東的話這個就是倉儲這個大火而且乒乓乓的有爆炸的聲音這就是有危險物品啊\n所以我們如何去加強管制他有沒有危險物品我們會去查因為他是屬於特登工廠那這個我們會去了解屏東的這個部分因為本席會這麼提就是說有些工廠就是規避我們的管理我們必須要全面去管理他如果危險物品存放到工廠的話是符合我們規定的但是放到倉儲業那邊是大量的那是怎麼辦呢\n長處業,因為它有一些,像以桃園為例,它有的是放在特區,那有一些是在一般的區域,那我們這個也曾經跨部會去討論過,那確實這個地方的主管機關對長處業應該確實要加強盤查。\n是所以我們把納管進去全面管理才是最安全的好不好是是這個我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理所以我們現在除了說是開法之外我們還要完善去它所有這次的一個妥善性的一個改善\n對,我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報,事先告訴他們要怎麼做管理。他存放的地點除了工廠還有可能是倉儲,把倉儲放進去,倉儲的設施直接放進去。這是安全最重要的。再來本席要提個老問題啦,就是停電的問題。\n部長,我們知道臺電第一線員工他們在執行這個搶修、維修等等的工程,他們是非常辛苦的,疲於奔命。但是能源政策啊,這個規劃要規劃得好,如果規劃得很爛的話,他們真的是辛苦再辛苦,又危險。那尤其是現在我們包括我們的整個臺電完善配電的設施的維修,還有加強這個維修啊,\n幫我們討厭這幾天啊你看看十幾次的停電啊那所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統的這個強振計畫在2023年的話我們還有再提了五年的配電系統的升級計畫這個就是要來減少我們停電的發生喔那尤其是這個2023年提的這個提升升級的這個配電這個強振計畫那未來我們會減少到多少呢\n會減少到多少?現在沒有辦法講數字,但是確實在配電系統這個部分,我們盡量讓它可以自動來偵測,或者如果有壞掉可以自動轉換相關的設備,確實經費裡面有增加,趕快來做相關的汰換。」\n所以我們看以前的資料我特別去調了一些資料配電系統這個停電的次數如果在2020年到2023年的配電系統停電的次數是有減少看起來是有減少但是部長你再近看一下如果超過500戶的這個數量是增加的這代表著什麼範圍增加影響的戶數也在增加\n三十一條之十四、第三十一條及第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n新達電廠一號、二號機要除役,還有民營的\n賣寮電廠一號機、二號機合約也都到期了,再加上河山廠一號機也將在七月都除役,這個總會減少的總量是315萬瓦,但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的店裡面已經可以補這個缺口的部分,您說你民營的部分的話有這個\n新霸、豐德三號機、大潭七號、九號機、新興達一號機,這個補上來的有443萬瓦的電力來補足。雖然說新發電的多於這個要停掉的這個電力,但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題。在415的時候備轉容量只剩下2.8%,\n現在如果這些東西補上來的話,我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能穩定?415這個部分確實是因為基礎壞掉,那個地震造成的增加的基礎壞掉,所以才會在瞬間有這個備轉容量降得比較低。至於我們講的到今年的我們新增的基礎確實比除一的基礎多,那這個備轉容量的部分我們都會維持在這個10%。一般要多少?\n才能夠穩定的配電輸電的。」因為我們的12%到15%嘛現在你看你只有2.8%這是很危險的何況今年這麼多要除役合約到期的你雖然有其他電補上來但是但是你還要試營你要試轉要商轉要點火還要試運試轉這種情形的話會不會中斷斷層的話補不上來這個都要\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。\n第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.145 --> 00:11.127\n謝謝主席,請王部長\n\n00:17.910 --> 00:18.630\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n00:40.823 --> 01:02.571\n對員們對於火災現場的狀況無法正確判斷,造成了市民弟兄弟離難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對28之十四及三十一、三十九條要來修正。針對於工廠的危險物品,我們如果沒有為如實申報的\n\n01:03.872 --> 01:21.694\n審報不實的或違反審報的,我們原來是一到五萬,現在要五到五百萬。現在本席要提醒的就是說,因為有些不實的審報或是規避審報,尤其是有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內,譬如說是\n\n01:22.920 --> 01:30.027\n武流業或倉儲業的倉儲設施理念,我們要如何規範管理,把範圍擴大?如果講起桃園的話,我統計的話,112年的2月,桃園就有2300家了。所以,我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍跟他申報的場所呢?\n\n01:48.567 --> 02:08.733\n事實上按照消防法的規定那個倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品本來就都要符合消防法相關的這個可以存放的量所以你們有去檢查嗎?像昨天屏東的話這個就是倉儲這個大火而且乒乓乓的有爆炸的聲音這就是有危險物品啊\n\n02:09.213 --> 02:12.596\n所以我們如何去加強管制他有沒有危險物品我們會去查因為他是屬於特登工廠那這個我們會去了解屏東的這個部分因為本席會這麼提就是說有些工廠就是規避我們的管理我們必須要全面去管理他如果危險物品存放到工廠的話是符合我們規定的但是放到倉儲業那邊是大量的那是怎麼辦呢\n\n02:32.355 --> 02:41.903\n長處業,因為它有一些,像以桃園為例,它有的是放在特區,那有一些是在一般的區域,那我們這個也曾經跨部會去討論過,那確實這個地方的主管機關對長處業應該確實要加強盤查。\n\n02:48.308 --> 03:07.561\n是所以我們把納管進去全面管理才是最安全的好不好是是這個我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理所以我們現在除了說是開法之外我們還要完善去它所有這次的一個妥善性的一個改善\n\n03:08.582 --> 03:26.897\n對,我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報,事先告訴他們要怎麼做管理。他存放的地點除了工廠還有可能是倉儲,把倉儲放進去,倉儲的設施直接放進去。這是安全最重要的。再來本席要提個老問題啦,就是停電的問題。\n\n03:28.988 --> 03:55.282\n部長,我們知道臺電第一線員工他們在執行這個搶修、維修等等的工程,他們是非常辛苦的,疲於奔命。但是能源政策啊,這個規劃要規劃得好,如果規劃得很爛的話,他們真的是辛苦再辛苦,又危險。那尤其是現在我們包括我們的整個臺電完善配電的設施的維修,還有加強這個維修啊,\n\n03:56.102 --> 04:25.303\n幫我們討厭這幾天啊你看看十幾次的停電啊那所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統的這個強振計畫在2023年的話我們還有再提了五年的配電系統的升級計畫這個就是要來減少我們停電的發生喔那尤其是這個2023年提的這個提升升級的這個配電這個強振計畫那未來我們會減少到多少呢\n\n04:27.429 --> 04:30.050\n會減少到多少?現在沒有辦法講數字,但是確實在配電系統這個部分,我們盡量讓它可以自動來偵測,或者如果有壞掉可以自動轉換相關的設備,確實經費裡面有增加,趕快來做相關的汰換。」\n\n04:47.097 --> 05:13.294\n所以我們看以前的資料我特別去調了一些資料配電系統這個停電的次數如果在2020年到2023年的配電系統停電的次數是有減少看起來是有減少但是部長你再近看一下如果超過500戶的這個數量是增加的這代表著什麼範圍增加影響的戶數也在增加\n\n05:14.813 --> 05:16.534\n三十一條之十四、第三十一條及第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:32.944 --> 05:33.244\n新達電廠一號、二號機要除役,還有民營的\n\n05:54.151 --> 06:00.674\n賣寮電廠一號機、二號機合約也都到期了,再加上河山廠一號機也將在七月都除役,這個總會減少的總量是315萬瓦,但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的店裡面已經可以補這個缺口的部分,您說你民營的部分的話有這個\n\n06:17.302 --> 06:42.079\n新霸、豐德三號機、大潭七號、九號機、新興達一號機,這個補上來的有443萬瓦的電力來補足。雖然說新發電的多於這個要停掉的這個電力,但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題。在415的時候備轉容量只剩下2.8%,\n\n06:44.501 --> 07:13.337\n現在如果這些東西補上來的話,我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能穩定?415這個部分確實是因為基礎壞掉,那個地震造成的增加的基礎壞掉,所以才會在瞬間有這個備轉容量降得比較低。至於我們講的到今年的我們新增的基礎確實比除一的基礎多,那這個備轉容量的部分我們都會維持在這個10%。一般要多少?\n\n07:13.697 --> 07:36.397\n才能夠穩定的配電輸電的。」因為我們的12%到15%嘛現在你看你只有2.8%這是很危險的何況今年這麼多要除役合約到期的你雖然有其他電補上來但是但是你還要試營你要試轉要商轉要點火還要試運試轉這種情形的話會不會中斷斷層的話補不上來這個都要\n\n07:39.099 --> 07:39.979\n第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n08:10.503 --> 08:11.363\n第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.145,"end":11.127,"text":"謝謝主席,請王部長"},{"start":17.91,"end":18.63,"text":"第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":40.823,"end":62.571,"text":"對員們對於火災現場的狀況無法正確判斷,造成了市民弟兄弟離難的悲劇。所以我們今天針對28之十四及三十一、三十九條要來修正。針對於工廠的危險物品,我們如果沒有為如實申報的"},{"start":63.872,"end":81.694,"text":"審報不實的或違反審報的,我們原來是一到五萬,現在要五到五百萬。現在本席要提醒的就是說,因為有些不實的審報或是規避審報,尤其是有些物品如果沒有放到工廠內,譬如說是"},{"start":82.92,"end":90.027,"text":"武流業或倉儲業的倉儲設施理念,我們要如何規範管理,把範圍擴大?如果講起桃園的話,我統計的話,112年的2月,桃園就有2300家了。所以,我們是不是要擴大他們存放危險物品的地點、範圍跟他申報的場所呢?"},{"start":108.567,"end":128.733,"text":"事實上按照消防法的規定那個倉儲業者裡面的這些危險物品本來就都要符合消防法相關的這個可以存放的量所以你們有去檢查嗎?像昨天屏東的話這個就是倉儲這個大火而且乒乓乓的有爆炸的聲音這就是有危險物品啊"},{"start":129.213,"end":132.596,"text":"所以我們如何去加強管制他有沒有危險物品我們會去查因為他是屬於特登工廠那這個我們會去了解屏東的這個部分因為本席會這麼提就是說有些工廠就是規避我們的管理我們必須要全面去管理他如果危險物品存放到工廠的話是符合我們規定的但是放到倉儲業那邊是大量的那是怎麼辦呢"},{"start":152.355,"end":161.903,"text":"長處業,因為它有一些,像以桃園為例,它有的是放在特區,那有一些是在一般的區域,那我們這個也曾經跨部會去討論過,那確實這個地方的主管機關對長處業應該確實要加強盤查。"},{"start":168.308,"end":187.561,"text":"是所以我們把納管進去全面管理才是最安全的好不好是是這個我們都有跟地方政府提到大型的倉儲業要做好相關的管理所以我們現在除了說是開法之外我們還要完善去它所有這次的一個妥善性的一個改善"},{"start":188.582,"end":206.897,"text":"對,我覺得事先讓他們知道要申報,事先告訴他們要怎麼做管理。他存放的地點除了工廠還有可能是倉儲,把倉儲放進去,倉儲的設施直接放進去。這是安全最重要的。再來本席要提個老問題啦,就是停電的問題。"},{"start":208.988,"end":235.282,"text":"部長,我們知道臺電第一線員工他們在執行這個搶修、維修等等的工程,他們是非常辛苦的,疲於奔命。但是能源政策啊,這個規劃要規劃得好,如果規劃得很爛的話,他們真的是辛苦再辛苦,又危險。那尤其是現在我們包括我們的整個臺電完善配電的設施的維修,還有加強這個維修啊,"},{"start":236.102,"end":265.303,"text":"幫我們討厭這幾天啊你看看十幾次的停電啊那所以我們在2018年的時候就有配電系統的這個強振計畫在2023年的話我們還有再提了五年的配電系統的升級計畫這個就是要來減少我們停電的發生喔那尤其是這個2023年提的這個提升升級的這個配電這個強振計畫那未來我們會減少到多少呢"},{"start":267.429,"end":270.05,"text":"會減少到多少?現在沒有辦法講數字,但是確實在配電系統這個部分,我們盡量讓它可以自動來偵測,或者如果有壞掉可以自動轉換相關的設備,確實經費裡面有增加,趕快來做相關的汰換。」"},{"start":287.097,"end":313.294,"text":"所以我們看以前的資料我特別去調了一些資料配電系統這個停電的次數如果在2020年到2023年的配電系統停電的次數是有減少看起來是有減少但是部長你再近看一下如果超過500戶的這個數量是增加的這代表著什麼範圍增加影響的戶數也在增加"},{"start":314.813,"end":316.534,"text":"三十一條之十四、第三十一條及第三十一條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":332.944,"end":333.244,"text":"新達電廠一號、二號機要除役,還有民營的"},{"start":354.151,"end":360.674,"text":"賣寮電廠一號機、二號機合約也都到期了,再加上河山廠一號機也將在七月都除役,這個總會減少的總量是315萬瓦,但是我們看到你在增加的這些其他的店裡面已經可以補這個缺口的部分,您說你民營的部分的話有這個"},{"start":377.302,"end":402.079,"text":"新霸、豐德三號機、大潭七號、九號機、新興達一號機,這個補上來的有443萬瓦的電力來補足。雖然說新發電的多於這個要停掉的這個電力,但是我們擔心的就是備轉容量的問題。在415的時候備轉容量只剩下2.8%,"},{"start":404.501,"end":433.337,"text":"現在如果這些東西補上來的話,我們備轉容量應該平均要多少才能穩定?415這個部分確實是因為基礎壞掉,那個地震造成的增加的基礎壞掉,所以才會在瞬間有這個備轉容量降得比較低。至於我們講的到今年的我們新增的基礎確實比除一的基礎多,那這個備轉容量的部分我們都會維持在這個10%。一般要多少?"},{"start":433.697,"end":456.397,"text":"才能夠穩定的配電輸電的。」因為我們的12%到15%嘛現在你看你只有2.8%這是很危險的何況今年這麼多要除役合約到期的你雖然有其他電補上來但是但是你還要試營你要試轉要商轉要點火還要試運試轉這種情形的話會不會中斷斷層的話補不上來這個都要"},{"start":459.099,"end":459.979,"text":"第二十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":490.503,"end":491.363,"text":"第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案。"}]}}}}