{"id":151631,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151631","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb341784ae87d3d11c6e793a383c05d564ceadb1108e4b8443294875d2917544b4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"10:34:50 - 10:38:12","影片長度":"00:03:22","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1"},"duration":202,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:38:12+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:34:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":358,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（10時34分）我想我就直接請法律事務司沈司長。"],["主席：沈司長請。"],["沈司長世偉：委員好。"],["陳委員永康：司長好。您剛才特別提到有關我們法制官、法務人員的人才培養，我非常認同你的看法，我舉一個重要的例子，多年前海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收，在對抗的過程中間，因為有一位艦隊長帶的操演部隊離開了防空識別區，日本人就關切說：為什麼你靠近我的與那國島？於是我們國防部當時在狀況不明的情況下就準備把這位艦隊長撤職，要移送軍法。事後我們當然經過一些處理，也釐清了，這個裡面要強調的一個重點就是您剛剛講的ROE，這個不是SOP，所謂的演習對抗，我們講的不是交戰準則或法規，不同的部隊、不同層級不能再沿用標準作業程序在當時有這個現象，我們今天聽到你講，如果爾後在重大的演訓過程，不管是聯兵旅層級以上、空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上，如果在操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官，適時提供整個ROE的看法、建言，這種錯誤就會減免。"],["沈司長世偉：是。"],["陳委員永康：我就是特別強調您剛剛講的那個東西，本席會支持，但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。"],["沈司長世偉：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員永康：第二點，這次陸海空軍懲罰法的修正案，因為第十八、十九條裡面有規定一個降階的懲罰，特別在第二十二條規定降階的軍官、士官依其現任職務降一階換敘，並於一年內不得調任主官職務。對這個的看法我們原則上也是支持，因為這是有參照美軍的精神，有降階，但是產生了一個例外現象，我們對修正條文做了細節分析，就是美軍中校的服役年限是28年，我們的中校原來是24年得延2年，那麼這個特別的案例就產生了，如果一個上校階沒有達最大年限，但是因為錯誤所以他被降階，可是他一降階以後，他面臨到我們中校只有26年，所以他就被迫退伍。這是一個特殊的案例，我希望您基於公平處置、人權保障，如果在這個環境過程中間發生特殊案例，就要有一個修正的方法。"],["沈司長世偉：是。"],["陳委員永康：關於這個例子，如果參照美軍，美軍是中校服務28年，那麼我們現在最大服役年限是26年，如果處分的結果是他被降階，結果因為降階就把他逼退了，原本的處分是說要重新在一年後派職，所以這產生一個法條上面的落差，我希望在這個條件下，你們幫忙再看一下，做一個修正。"],["沈司長世偉：是，謝謝委員的指導，對這個部分，我們下去會就個案做分析，會在完成之後跟委員做回報。"],["陳委員永康：好，謝謝。"],["沈司長世偉：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳永康委員，司長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳俊宇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","馬文君","林楚茵","沈伯洋","黃國昌","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","洪申翰","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","吳思瑤","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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\"0\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 180.008, \"end\": 180.168, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 180.168, \"end\": 180.188, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,395\n刑法律事務室沈司長\n\n2\n00:00:07,677 --> 00:00:25,788\n您剛才特別提到有關我們的法制官、法務人員的人才培養。我非常認同你的看法。我舉一個重要的例子。多年前,海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收,在對抗的過程中間,因為有一位艦隊長帶著超遠部隊離開了防空識別區。\n\n3\n00:00:30,868 --> 00:00:36,334\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。\n\n4\n00:00:54,352 --> 00:01:13,437\n我們講的不是交戰準則或法規不同的部隊不同層級那不能再沿用用標準作為程序那麼當時這個現象我們今天聽到你講如果而後在重大的演訓過程不管是聯兵旅程級以上空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上\n\n5\n00:01:15,097 --> 00:01:37,418\n如果他的操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官,適時提供整個ROE在看法、建言上,這種錯誤會減免。」那這個我就是特別強調您剛剛那個東西,我們本席會支持,但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。那麼第二點就是提到的這次的\n\n6\n00:01:38,499 --> 00:01:42,281\n陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。」案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。六、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。\n\n7\n00:02:02,464 --> 00:02:16,352\n有參照美軍的精神有降階,但是產生了一個例外現象,細節分析我們在修正文裡面提供了,就是說美軍的忠孝是服役年限是28年,\n\n8\n00:02:18,544 --> 00:02:20,166\n徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查\n\n9\n00:02:37,443 --> 00:02:40,266\n公平處置人權保障環境過程中間有特殊案例要修正方法。\n\n10\n00:02:58,507 --> 00:03:00,188\n降階、逼退草案案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1395\t刑法律事務室沈司長\n7677\t25788\t您剛才特別提到有關我們的法制官、法務人員的人才培養。我非常認同你的看法。我舉一個重要的例子。多年前,海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收,在對抗的過程中間,因為有一位艦隊長帶著超遠部隊離開了防空識別區。\n30868\t36334\t事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。\n54352\t73437\t我們講的不是交戰準則或法規不同的部隊不同層級那不能再沿用用標準作為程序那麼當時這個現象我們今天聽到你講如果而後在重大的演訓過程不管是聯兵旅程級以上空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上\n75097\t97418\t如果他的操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官,適時提供整個ROE在看法、建言上,這種錯誤會減免。」那這個我就是特別強調您剛剛那個東西,我們本席會支持,但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。那麼第二點就是提到的這次的\n98499\t102281\t陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。」案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。六、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。\n122464\t136352\t有參照美軍的精神有降階,但是產生了一個例外現象,細節分析我們在修正文裡面提供了,就是說美軍的忠孝是服役年限是28年,\n138544\t140166\t徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查\n157443\t160266\t公平處置人權保障環境過程中間有特殊案例要修正方法。\n178507\t180188\t降階、逼退草案案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n","txt":"刑法律事務室沈司長\n您剛才特別提到有關我們的法制官、法務人員的人才培養。我非常認同你的看法。我舉一個重要的例子。多年前,海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收,在對抗的過程中間,因為有一位艦隊長帶著超遠部隊離開了防空識別區。\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。\n我們講的不是交戰準則或法規不同的部隊不同層級那不能再沿用用標準作為程序那麼當時這個現象我們今天聽到你講如果而後在重大的演訓過程不管是聯兵旅程級以上空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上\n如果他的操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官,適時提供整個ROE在看法、建言上,這種錯誤會減免。」那這個我就是特別強調您剛剛那個東西,我們本席會支持,但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。那麼第二點就是提到的這次的\n陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。」案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。六、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。\n有參照美軍的精神有降階,但是產生了一個例外現象,細節分析我們在修正文裡面提供了,就是說美軍的忠孝是服役年限是28年,\n徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查\n公平處置人權保障環境過程中間有特殊案例要修正方法。\n降階、逼退草案案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.395\n刑法律事務室沈司長\n\n00:07.677 --> 00:25.788\n您剛才特別提到有關我們的法制官、法務人員的人才培養。我非常認同你的看法。我舉一個重要的例子。多年前,海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收,在對抗的過程中間,因為有一位艦隊長帶著超遠部隊離開了防空識別區。\n\n00:30.868 --> 00:36.334\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。\n\n00:54.352 --> 01:13.437\n我們講的不是交戰準則或法規不同的部隊不同層級那不能再沿用用標準作為程序那麼當時這個現象我們今天聽到你講如果而後在重大的演訓過程不管是聯兵旅程級以上空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上\n\n01:15.097 --> 01:37.418\n如果他的操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官,適時提供整個ROE在看法、建言上,這種錯誤會減免。」那這個我就是特別強調您剛剛那個東西,我們本席會支持,但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。那麼第二點就是提到的這次的\n\n01:38.499 --> 01:42.281\n陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。」案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。六、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。\n\n02:02.464 --> 02:16.352\n有參照美軍的精神有降階,但是產生了一個例外現象,細節分析我們在修正文裡面提供了,就是說美軍的忠孝是服役年限是28年,\n\n02:18.544 --> 02:20.166\n徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查\n\n02:37.443 --> 02:40.266\n公平處置人權保障環境過程中間有特殊案例要修正方法。\n\n02:58.507 --> 03:00.188\n降階、逼退草案案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.395,"text":"刑法律事務室沈司長"},{"start":7.677,"end":25.788,"text":"您剛才特別提到有關我們的法制官、法務人員的人才培養。我非常認同你的看法。我舉一個重要的例子。多年前,海軍在做年度的戰術總驗收,在對抗的過程中間,因為有一位艦隊長帶著超遠部隊離開了防空識別區。"},{"start":30.868,"end":36.334,"text":"事件處理法草案案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案。"},{"start":54.352,"end":73.437,"text":"我們講的不是交戰準則或法規不同的部隊不同層級那不能再沿用用標準作為程序那麼當時這個現象我們今天聽到你講如果而後在重大的演訓過程不管是聯兵旅程級以上空軍聯隊以上或海軍艦隊以上"},{"start":75.097,"end":97.418,"text":"如果他的操演指揮官旁邊有一位法務官,適時提供整個ROE在看法、建言上,這種錯誤會減免。」那這個我就是特別強調您剛剛那個東西,我們本席會支持,但是也希望能夠務實地來推動。那麼第二點就是提到的這次的"},{"start":98.499,"end":102.281,"text":"陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案。」案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。六、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》案。"},{"start":122.464,"end":136.352,"text":"有參照美軍的精神有降階,但是產生了一個例外現象,細節分析我們在修正文裡面提供了,就是說美軍的忠孝是服役年限是28年,"},{"start":138.544,"end":140.166,"text":"徐巧芯等20人擬具:「軍人權益事件處理法草案案。三、審查"},{"start":157.443,"end":160.266,"text":"公平處置人權保障環境過程中間有特殊案例要修正方法。"},{"start":178.507,"end":180.188,"text":"降階、逼退草案案。五、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具"}]}}}}