{"id":151633,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151633","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3fc21f7df99e6ea6eb903698ddfaa754aeadb1108e4b844328f8f6e905f7449da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:29:36 - 10:40:06","影片長度":"00:10:30","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會就「非法網站創意私房案件，提出兒少性影像防制具體作為、檢討報告，並就兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":630,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:40:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:29:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":559,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時29分）好，謝謝主席，再麻煩請我們薛部長。"],["主席：有請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：薛部長，先請教一下，2020年1月21號開始的COVID-19新冠疫情，因為有很多民眾想瞭解一下，就是現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["涂委員權吉：那我們現在的情況，新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎？還是還有在管制、處理，還是怎麼樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前因為COVID-19這一支病毒經過演化之後，現在有的這一些類型，它的致重症率已經是相當的低，所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病，降到現在應該是屬於第四類，也就是說它不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病，但是它仍然是一個傳染病，所以我們每年仍然要去注意到它的流行狀況，疫苗施打方面也必須要持續。"],["涂委員權吉：所以基本上其實它還沒有結束，只是把它……"],["薛部長瑞元：它不會結束。"],["涂委員權吉：對，不會結束嘛！變成一般性的傳染病。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，像流感那些。"],["涂委員權吉：所以沒有結束的問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["涂委員權吉：好。還有我們4月15號有請衛福部針對818天停止解析這一部分提出說明，後來我們有看一下，就是針對兒少性剝削防制條例第八條，那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法，所以我也看了一下，它在修改之前的差別，刑事司法上的執法行為就是要由刑事司法才能去執法，後來修法之後，才有給行政機關行政作為的空間，也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理違反兒虐性影像的網站停止解析，是這樣嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["涂委員權吉：好，那我們想瞭解說，就算沒有818天，可是如果從112年2月15號修法，那也有420天的時間，為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話，其實所謂把它封網這件事情，仍然是有兩類，一類是在法務部偵查的過程當中，他會主動去扣押，把證據保留，以這樣子的動作去做。第八條修法之後衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下，也可以去做，但是我們那個時候是把這個程序訂在施行細則裡面，怎麼樣去做這件事情，所以變成動作會比較冗長一點。"],["涂委員權吉：我們不瞭解的是到底是什麼原因？是因為在那種情況下我們衛福部不知情？還是什麼情況下不能去處理？而且據我們瞭解，後來你們在今年4月10號停止解析，也是用兒少性剝削防制條例的第七條跟性侵害犯罪防治法的第九條，以及行政執行法的第三十六條，函請數發部去停止解析，看起來跟第八條修法好像也沒有關係啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：因為去年修法之後，它的情形是這個樣子，第一個，我們必須要有民眾的申訴，民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程，我們並沒有權，目前也還沒有什麼權可以普遍性地去主動做網路的搜尋。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我在想，是不是像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴、沒有民眾檢舉，那這個網站的犯罪影像一直在外面散播、傳送，難道衛福部沒有一些機制主動去知道並處理嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們這次修法就是希望法律授權我們有這樣的機制來做這件事情。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡，為什麼這個事情一直發生？從前面檢察官起訴，到後面一審定讞，我不知道我們到底在等什麼衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情。"],["薛部長瑞元：事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件，除非有人來申訴、檢舉，或者是檢方請我們做一些協助判斷，這個時候我們才會知道有這類的案件。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我記得上次部長有講，你說就算4月10號那一天你們發函給數發部停止解析，而且還是冒著法律風險，那我想請問一下，到底是冒著什麼法律風險？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，不是只有當時，現在也還是，就只有一個施行細則在那邊，比方說民眾檢舉了，檢舉之後我們必須要發行政處分給這個網站的業者，然後要確定他收到，行政處分已經送達，然後他不願意遵從，我們才可以去做封網這個動作，或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰，也沒有聯絡的方式，我們才可以去做這件事情，那是在施行細則裡面所訂的。這一次我們封網是直接就封了，並沒有給他行政處分，這些我們就跳過去了。"],["涂委員權吉：而且我看4月15號部長接受中央社的採訪，經過這個事情之後，你有坦承說兒少性剝削防制條例的程序真的是太冗長。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["涂委員權吉：而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情，也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理，所以部長也說要修正，針對這幾個部分是不是已經提出完善的修正？"],["薛部長瑞元：有，我們在這一次的建議條文裡面，已經有處理這一個，如果下個禮拜我們進入到逐條審查的時候，也許我們就可以看得到我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理。因為這的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理，第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的，目前到底有多少這種網站，事實上沒有經過檢舉我們是不知道的。第二個，縱然我們處理，也把它封網了，但它可能換個網域又復活，這種情形出來的時候，如果我們沒有辦法主動去做巡察的話，我們也無從知道，結果等於說對它來講那個成本很低嘛！換個網域，繳沒多少錢就可以……"],["涂委員權吉：對，所以今天也是跟衛福部長講，今天這個事情發生了，但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理。而且我們針對保護服務司這5年預算編列還有員額擴編的情形，來看這5年的預算也是年年增加，員額也是年年擴編，表示我們大家對這個事情，還有我們對保護服務司可以說是非常重視，而且有很大的期待。我們今天在立法院一定要好好地來替民眾把關，也希望我們跟衛福部一起來為我們人民好好做事。沒有做好，我們現在發現了，我覺得我們就應該要儘快，雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚，可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好地去把它處理好。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["涂委員權吉：針對這次兒少事件的發生、違法影片的發生，我看了一下，衛福部有針對性影像被害人權益進行保障，提出這個權益保障的說明辦法，我這邊也建議一下，因為我那時候想說去瞭解一下，這個說明辦法有五十幾頁，兩萬多個字，而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條，我說實在話，如果以一般的被害人來講，這個好像在給他上課，要去考律師一樣，這個法條一大堆，一般的被害人要去尋求保護、扶助、求助，結果看這些法條，我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了，是不是可以針對這一部分……"],["薛部長瑞元：我們會做類似像懶人包那樣的東西。"],["涂委員權吉：對，去做一些淺顯易懂的東西，希望衛福部針對這部分再好好幫我們研議、瞭解，然後好好處理一下，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：好，謝謝涂權吉委員。","現在作以下宣告：等一下在王正旭委員質詢結束後，休息10分鐘。","現在請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","李坤城","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","黃珊珊","何欣純","黃國昌","李彥秀","洪孟楷","羅智強","徐欣瑩","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","盧縣一","蘇清泉","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍─ 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\"理\", \"start\": 622.971, \"end\": 623.091, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 623.091, \"end\": 623.191, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 623.191, \"end\": 623.211, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"」\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,489 --> 00:00:08,484\n好,謝謝主席,再麻煩請我們薛部長有請薛部長\n\n2\n00:00:16,581 --> 00:00:44,113\n委員好好薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣\n\n3\n00:00:45,274 --> 00:01:09,512\n目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它\n\n4\n00:01:10,613 --> 00:01:35,342\n降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續\n\n5\n00:01:36,602 --> 00:01:45,848\n所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天\n\n6\n00:01:58,255 --> 00:02:19,468\n停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式\n\n7\n00:02:20,288 --> 00:02:39,714\n司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理我們為少違反惡劣性影像的網站品質解析。」\n\n8\n00:02:41,855 --> 00:02:58,941\n好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個\n\n9\n00:03:05,345 --> 00:03:26,758\n所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類。一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。\n\n10\n00:03:27,478 --> 00:03:46,771\n那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點\n\n11\n00:03:51,534 --> 00:04:13,424\n對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪\n\n12\n00:04:14,164 --> 00:04:39,715\n防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話那它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴\n\n13\n00:04:41,056 --> 00:05:01,112\n民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉\n\n14\n00:05:02,353 --> 00:05:17,765\n那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情\n\n15\n00:05:18,766 --> 00:05:39,072\n所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉\n\n16\n00:05:40,652 --> 00:06:04,617\n或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件所以我記得上次部長有講你說從就算4月10號那一天你們發函給疏發部停止解析而且還是冒著法律風險那我想請問一下到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告當時\n\n17\n00:06:06,917 --> 00:06:33,384\n不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守\n\n18\n00:06:34,504 --> 00:06:59,133\n我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個事件細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了\n\n19\n00:06:59,813 --> 00:07:22,684\n所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說\n\n20\n00:07:23,784 --> 00:07:50,561\n部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的\n\n21\n00:07:51,341 --> 00:08:11,249\n這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。\n\n22\n00:08:11,949 --> 00:08:33,999\n那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部網講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形\n\n23\n00:08:37,901 --> 00:09:02,965\n我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明\n\n24\n00:09:03,625 --> 00:09:15,875\n已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有我們後來我們針對因為這次這個\n\n25\n00:09:23,237 --> 00:09:42,143\n而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁\n\n26\n00:09:47,885 --> 00:10:03,615\n兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他\n\n27\n00:10:04,275 --> 00:10:23,211\n要去尋求、保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條,我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦真的這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5489\t8484\t好,謝謝主席,再麻煩請我們薛部長有請薛部長\n16581\t44113\t委員好好 薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛 對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣\n45274\t69512\t目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它\n70613\t95342\t降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續\n96602\t105848\t所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天\n118255\t139468\t停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式\n140288\t159714\t司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理我們為少違反惡劣性影像的網站品質解析。」\n161855\t178941\t好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個\n185345\t206758\t所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類。一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。\n207478\t226771\t那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點\n231534\t253424\t對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪\n254164\t279715\t防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話那它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴\n281056\t301112\t民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉\n302353\t317765\t那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情\n318766\t339072\t所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉\n340652\t364617\t或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件所以我記得上次部長有講你說從就算4月10號那一天你們發函給疏發部停止解析而且還是冒著法律風險那我想請問一下到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告當時\n366917\t393384\t不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守\n394504\t419133\t我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個事件細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了\n419813\t442684\t所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說\n443784\t470561\t部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的\n471341\t491249\t這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。\n491949\t513999\t那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部網講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形\n517901\t542965\t我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明\n543625\t555875\t已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有我們後來我們針對因為這次這個\n563237\t582143\t而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁\n587885\t603615\t兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他\n604275\t623211\t要去尋求、保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條,我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦真的這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,再麻煩請我們薛部長有請薛部長\n委員好好 薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛 對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣\n目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它\n降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續\n所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天\n停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式\n司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理我們為少違反惡劣性影像的網站品質解析。」\n好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個\n所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類。一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。\n那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點\n對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪\n防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話那它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴\n民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉\n那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情\n所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉\n或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件所以我記得上次部長有講你說從就算4月10號那一天你們發函給疏發部停止解析而且還是冒著法律風險那我想請問一下到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告當時\n不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守\n我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個事件細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了\n所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說\n部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的\n這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。\n那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部網講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形\n我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明\n已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有我們後來我們針對因為這次這個\n而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁\n兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他\n要去尋求、保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條,我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦真的這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.489 --> 00:08.484\n好,謝謝主席,再麻煩請我們薛部長有請薛部長\n\n00:16.581 --> 00:44.113\n委員好好薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣\n\n00:45.274 --> 01:09.512\n目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它\n\n01:10.613 --> 01:35.342\n降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續\n\n01:36.602 --> 01:45.848\n所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天\n\n01:58.255 --> 02:19.468\n停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式\n\n02:20.288 --> 02:39.714\n司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理我們為少違反惡劣性影像的網站品質解析。」\n\n02:41.855 --> 02:58.941\n好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個\n\n03:05.345 --> 03:26.758\n所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類。一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。\n\n03:27.478 --> 03:46.771\n那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點\n\n03:51.534 --> 04:13.424\n對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪\n\n04:14.164 --> 04:39.715\n防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話那它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴\n\n04:41.056 --> 05:01.112\n民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉\n\n05:02.353 --> 05:17.765\n那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情\n\n05:18.766 --> 05:39.072\n所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉\n\n05:40.652 --> 06:04.617\n或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件所以我記得上次部長有講你說從就算4月10號那一天你們發函給疏發部停止解析而且還是冒著法律風險那我想請問一下到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告當時\n\n06:06.917 --> 06:33.384\n不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守\n\n06:34.504 --> 06:59.133\n我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個事件細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了\n\n06:59.813 --> 07:22.684\n所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說\n\n07:23.784 --> 07:50.561\n部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的\n\n07:51.341 --> 08:11.249\n這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。\n\n08:11.949 --> 08:33.999\n那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部網講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形\n\n08:37.901 --> 09:02.965\n我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明\n\n09:03.625 --> 09:15.875\n已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有我們後來我們針對因為這次這個\n\n09:23.237 --> 09:42.143\n而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁\n\n09:47.885 --> 10:03.615\n兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他\n\n10:04.275 --> 10:23.211\n要去尋求、保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條,我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦真的這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.489,"end":8.484,"text":"好,謝謝主席,再麻煩請我們薛部長有請薛部長"},{"start":16.581,"end":44.113,"text":"委員好好 薛部長先請教一下像我們2020年1月21號開始就是我們COVID-19新冠疫情因為有很多民眾想了解一下就是說我們現在疫情指揮中心已經解編了嘛 對不對那我們現在的情況新冠疫情的時代算是正式結束了嗎還是還是還有在管制還是處理還是怎麼樣"},{"start":45.274,"end":69.512,"text":"目前這個因為這個COVID-19的這一隻病毒經過一直的一個演化之後的話那現在有的這一些這個類型已經它的致重症率已經是相當的低了所以我們就把它從第五類的傳染病把它"},{"start":70.613,"end":95.342,"text":"降到變成現在應該是屬於第一次類那也就是說他不再是一個有重大健康威脅的一個傳染病但是他仍然是一個傳染病所以我們每年仍然要去注意到他的流行的狀況那也有必要說在疫苗的施打方面的話也可能必須要持續"},{"start":96.602,"end":105.848,"text":"所以基本上其實它是還沒有結束只是把它對不會結束變成一般性的傳染病這樣子所以沒有結束的問題那還有就是針對我們4月15號有請我們衛福部針對818天"},{"start":118.255,"end":139.468,"text":"停止解析這部分。」後來我們有看一下就是針對兒少性剝削防治條例第8條那時候你們說因為是在112年2月15號修法所以也看了一下就是說他在修改之前的差別就是在修改之前就是形式"},{"start":140.288,"end":159.714,"text":"司法上的執法行為,就是要有刑事司法才能去執法,後來修法之後給行政機關有行政作為的空間,也就是衛福部從那個時候才有法源依據去處理我們為少違反惡劣性影像的網站品質解析。」"},{"start":161.855,"end":178.941,"text":"好那我們想了解說那但是就算他沒有818天可是如果說從112年2月15號修法那也也有420天的時間那為什麼那個時候沒有辦法去做這部分其實這一個"},{"start":185.345,"end":206.758,"text":"所謂的這種把他封網這件事情的話,仍然是有兩類。一類的話是在法務部這邊偵查的過程當中,他會主動去等於是扣押,把證據保留,這樣子的動作去做的。"},{"start":207.478,"end":226.771,"text":"那第八條之後的話是修法之後是衛福部基於兒少保護的情形之下也可以去做但是我們那個時候就是說把這個程序定在施行細則裡面怎麼樣去做這件事情那所以這一個變成說就動作會比較冗長一點"},{"start":231.534,"end":253.424,"text":"對我們不了解就是說到底是什麼原因是因為那種情況下我們衛福部是不知情還是什麼情況下不能去處理而且據我們了解我們後來今年4月10號停止解析也是用兒少剝削防治條例的第7條跟性侵害犯罪"},{"start":254.164,"end":279.715,"text":"防治法的第9條以及行政執行法的第36條,含請我們速發部去停止解析。」那看起來跟第8條修法好像也沒有關係啊因為當時的這個去年修法之後的話那它的這個情形是這個樣子的就是說第一個我們必須要有這個民眾的申訴"},{"start":281.056,"end":301.112,"text":"民眾申訴下來之後才能夠啟動那個流程我們並沒有權目前也還沒有什麼權可以是普遍性去主動去做網路的搜尋所以我在想說是不是如果像這樣的事情如果沒有民眾申訴沒有民眾檢舉"},{"start":302.353,"end":317.765,"text":"那這個網站他一直犯罪的影像一直在外面散播傳送那難道我們衛福部沒有一些機制去主動去知道這些事去處理嗎所以我們這次修法就是希望說法律授權我們有這樣子的一個機制來做這件事情"},{"start":318.766,"end":339.072,"text":"所以我們一直就是希望凸顯到底問題在哪裡為什麼這個事情一直發生我說從前面檢察官起訴到後面一審定驗我不知道我們到底在等什麼我們衛福部才有機會去處理這樣子的事情因為事實上我們不見得知道有這類的案件除非說有人來做申訴檢舉"},{"start":340.652,"end":364.617,"text":"或者是說檢方那邊來請我們做一些協助判斷這個時候我們才會知道這類的案件所以我記得上次部長有講你說從就算4月10號那一天你們發函給疏發部停止解析而且還是冒著法律風險那我想請問一下到底是冒著什麼法律風險?根文報告當時"},{"start":366.917,"end":393.384,"text":"不是只有當時,現在也還是啦就一個施行細則在那邊施行細則我們必須要,比方說民眾檢舉了檢舉之後的話,我們必須要發這個行政處分給這個業者這個網站的業者然後要確定他收到了收到這個行政處分已經送達了然後他不願意遵守"},{"start":394.504,"end":419.133,"text":"我們才可以去做封網這個動作或者就是說我們找不到那一個人到底是誰那也沒有聯絡的方式我們才可以去做這件事情那是在這個事件細則裡面所定的那這一次我們封網是直接就封了並沒有特別還要給他行政處分這些我們就跳過去了"},{"start":419.813,"end":442.684,"text":"所以經過這個事情之後而且我看在4月15號我們部長接受中央社的採訪你也有講說坦承這個兒少性剝削防治條例這個程序真的是太冗長那而且又針對我們剛剛前面講的這些事情這樣發生也凸顯在第一時間我們沒有一個完好的機制去做處理所以說"},{"start":443.784,"end":470.561,"text":"部長也說要修正,是不是針對這幾個部分已經提出一個完善的修正?我們在這一次的建議條文裡面有,已經有處理這個,那到時候的話,如果下個禮拜我們進入到主條審查的時候,也許我們就可以看得到這個我們的主張是怎麼樣來做處理,因為這個的確會有兩個問題必須要去處理,第一個就是剛剛委員所提到的"},{"start":471.341,"end":491.249,"text":"這目前的話到底有多少這種網站,事實上沒有經過檢舉,我們是不知道的。第二個,縱然我們這個處理的也把它封網了,它可能換個網域它又復活。那這種情形出來的時候,如果我們沒有辦法就主動去做這種巡查的話,我們也無從知道。"},{"start":491.949,"end":513.999,"text":"那結果就是等於說對他來講那個成本很低嘛換個網域繳沒多少錢就可以對所以今天也是跟部長還有衛福部網講我們今天這個事情發生了但是我們一定要去探討為什麼在第一時間沒有辦法去做處理而且針對我們看我們五年保護服務師我們對這個預算編列還有原額擴編的情形"},{"start":517.901,"end":542.965,"text":"我看我們預算這5年也是年年增加這原則也是年年擴編表示我們大家對這個事情還有我們對保護服務師可以說是非常重視而且有很大的期待那我們今天在立法院我們一定要好好的來替我們民眾把關也希望跟衛福部我們一起來為我們人民好好做事那基本上明明"},{"start":543.625,"end":555.875,"text":"已經沒有做好我們現在發現我覺得我們就應該要儘快雖然亡羊補牢為時已晚可是至少還可以把一些沒有處理完善的情形好好的去把它處理好還有我們後來我們針對因為這次這個"},{"start":563.237,"end":582.143,"text":"而造這些的事情的發生那違反的影片的發生我看了一下我們衛福部有針對現影像被害人權益保障我們這個權益保障的說明辦法我這邊也建議一下因為我那時候想說去了解一下我看了一下這個裡面這個說明辦法有50幾頁"},{"start":587.885,"end":603.615,"text":"兩萬多個字而且裡面全部都是一大堆的法條我說實在話這個喔如果說以一般的被害人你要他這個好像在給他上課要去考那個律師一樣這個法條一大堆一般的被害人他"},{"start":604.275,"end":623.211,"text":"要去尋求、保護、輔助、求助,結果看這些法條,我覺得這真的是對他們太困難了,是不是可以針對這部分去做一些淺顯易懂的事情,希望這位夫婦真的這部分再好好幫我們研議、好瞭解、好好處理一下。」"}]}}}}