{"id":151638,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151638","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3486d56c37f014a64e793a383c05d564ceadb1108e4b84432d451b7c3137b8da05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"10:38:34 - 10:45:36","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1"},"duration":422,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:45:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:38:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":373,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（10時38分）謝謝主席，有請邱部長。"],["主席：邱國正部長請。"],["邱部長國正：委員好。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長早。謝謝部長，也謝謝今天列席的國防部同仁。我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍懲罰法還有軍人權益事件處理法，這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姐妹來說，對他們權益的影響可謂相當的重大，那在修法的整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆，考慮到將來可能發生的情境。首先，我想就跨國軍事交流的問題來做一個討論，有鑑於我們臺灣與其他國家常常有軍事上的交流，層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中，可能有互相派駐的受訓、協訓，甚至是參加軍演的機會，兩國國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。從歷史上來看，過去在美國協防臺灣的時候，如果美軍在臺犯事，美軍可主張有外交豁免權，不受我國司法管轄，並且將美軍引渡回美國受審，後來在歷經談判、簽署協議之後，才明示美軍在臺沒有所謂的豁免特權，如今當年的這個協議條約內容也已經作廢了！現在我國跟盟國軍事合作的密切度再度來到高點，我想請教部長，對於可能會遇到的兩種情境，第一，他國的軍人在臺灣違法，是否會接受我國司法管轄權的管轄？第二，我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情事，是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理？"],["邱部長國正：好，我跟委員報告，是不是能夠請我們法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明？"],["陳委員俊宇：好，請司長。"],["沈司長世偉：謝謝委員，委員您剛剛也講得很清楚了，當初在友臺的中美協防的時候，那是另外一個階段，那個是有簽特別的規定，那現在你舉的這個例子，如果外國的軍人不論是度假還是交流、簡單的來這邊受訓或是開會等等，他如果在我們國家犯了法，當然是由我們國家來管轄；同樣的，我們國家派到國外去唸書或是其他像度假、休假的也好，他的身分雖然是軍人，如果在那邊犯了法，也是由他們來管轄。我記得外交部他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免，那個不是在這個交流的範圍，那個是固定的、一些特定的人，那他們有在那個交流豁免範圍之內，至於其他這種一般的交流，就是看在哪裡犯法，當地國不會放棄它的管轄權。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以未來我們臺灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理？"],["沈司長世偉：目前是朝這個方向。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，在現今這種國際局勢的發展之下，可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁，而我們軍事合作的對象也可能會是跟我們沒有邦交的國家，這種情況越來越多了，可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題，我想請國防部這邊務必要積極的與他國來做討論，在平等的原則之下，避免事件發生之後產生不必要的爭端，而引發所謂的政治衝突事件。","再來是有關軍事審判制度的議題，國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇，包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的邢總長都有與會，由法律司進行報告，建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭，恢復軍事檢察及軍法官參審軍法的案件，以及恢復軍事審判1至2審級。我想請教部長，這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，關於這兩件事情，第一個，跟我們沒有邦交的國家，如果有人員涉及違法如何如何，我想這不光是國防部注意，而且外交部跟法務部也會要介入，所以到時候我們對這個議題要進行討論的話，會聯合其他部會一道來討論。第二個，我們辦這個研討會主要的用意在哪裡？就是讓大家以後方向會比較一致，哪怕現在講說雖然沒有軍法、沒有什麼審判等等，但是在進行司法審判的時候，也有軍事單位的人在裡面的話，我想這有必要大家先做溝通、瞭解嘛！所以我想這個都是共同的，我們期望如何，但是他們會把他們有什麼困難也做一個說明，這樣的話將來協調合作時所產生的問題就比較好解決。"],["陳委員俊宇：依照我國現行平時的司法還有戰時的軍審制度來說，平時的軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來審理，那軍方可能會有疑慮：部隊的管理有別於一般的機關，是否能夠適當的處分和判決？對這個部分，國防部應該要如何來觀察？"],["邱部長國正：這的確是我們已經發覺的問題，我要先跟各位委員舉一個很簡單的例子，譬如說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆，後來交給外面一般的法院以後，它最後審判的結果是不予處分，因為它覺得這個鬥毆沒有造成公共的危害，因為認知不同，就會產生很大的差異，這也就是以後我們要強化的地方。"],["陳委員俊宇：我想這個軍事審判的制度能夠完備的話，我希望我們能夠更加地齊全。"],["邱部長國正：好的。"],["陳委員俊宇：這是攸關我們國家安全的大事，我們不論在法條上的修訂，或是在審判制度上的變革，都應該更加地謹慎，將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量，更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及人權的保障。這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分加重研議辦理。"],["邱部長國正：是，報告委員，這是我們努力的目標，對於這個重要目標，我們會努力。"],["陳委員俊宇：謝謝部長、謝謝司長，以上。"],["主席：謝謝陳俊宇委員，部長請回。","我們接下來進行詢答之前先宣告：待會在吳思瑤委員詢答完，我們休息5分鐘。還是在陳冠廷委員之後休息5分鐘？陳冠廷好了，要不然隔太久了。我們待會在陳冠廷委員詢答結束休息5分鐘。","現在進行詢答的委員是羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","馬文君","林楚茵","沈伯洋","黃國昌","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","洪申翰","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","吳思瑤","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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0.992}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 58.557, \"end\": 58.577, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 59.637, \"end\": 65.31, \"text\": \"那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 59.637, \"end\": 59.838, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 59.838, \"end\": 59.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 59.978, \"end\": 60.66, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 60.66, \"end\": 60.88, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 60.88, \"end\": 61.041, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 61.041, \"end\": 61.281, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"派\", \"start\": 61.281, \"end\": 61.842, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"駐\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 61.842, \"end\": 62.424, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 62.424, \"end\": 62.644, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", 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\"end\": 419.836, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 419.836, \"end\": 420.016, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 420.016, \"end\": 420.236, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 420.236, \"end\": 420.256, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,409 --> 00:00:26,648\n謝謝主席,那有請我們邱部長邱文正部長請好,部長早部長早好,謝謝部長,那也謝謝我們今天列席的各位這個我們國防部的相關同仁那我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍這個懲罰法還有這個軍人權益事件的處理法\n\n2\n00:00:29,870 --> 00:00:58,577\n那這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姊妹來說他們的權益影響可謂相當的甚大那在修法的這個整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆考慮到將來可能發生的這個情境那首先我想就跨國軍事交流的這個問題來做一個討論有鑑於我們台灣與這個其他國家常有軍事上的交流那層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中\n\n3\n00:00:59,637 --> 00:01:05,310\n那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。\n\n4\n00:01:07,045 --> 00:01:28,413\n那兩國的國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。歷史上來看,過去美國協防台灣的時候,若美軍在台犯事,美軍可主張有外交豁免權,不受我國司法管轄,並且將美軍引渡回美國來受審。\n\n5\n00:01:30,234 --> 00:01:43,094\n而後來這個歷經談判簽署協議之後才明示美軍在台沒有這個所謂的豁免特權如今當年的這個協議條約也內容也已經作廢了然後那現在\n\n6\n00:01:44,721 --> 00:02:13,064\n我國跟盟國的這個軍事合作密切度再度來到這個高點。」我想請教部長對於可能會遇到的兩種情境第一是他國的軍人在台灣違法是否會接受我國這個司法管轄權的管轄第二是我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情勢是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理\n\n7\n00:02:15,124 --> 00:02:39,773\n我跟委員報告,能請問法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明嗎?謝謝委員。委員您剛剛前面也講得很清楚,當初有中美協防的時候,那是另外一個階段,那個是有特別的規定。那現在您舉的這個例子,如果外國的訓練不論是度假還是交流簡單的這種來這邊受訓或是開會等等,他如果在我們國家犯了法的話,當然是由我們國家來管轄。\n\n8\n00:02:40,513 --> 00:03:06,556\n我們國家同樣的派到國外去念書的或是說做其他的度假休假也好他的身份雖然是軍人在那邊犯了法的話也是由他們來管轄只有我記得外國他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免那個不是不是在這個交流的範圍那個是固定的一些特定的人那他們有那個在那個交流豁免範圍之內的其他的這種一般的交流就是看在哪裡辦法當地國不會放棄他的管轄權\n\n9\n00:03:08,312 --> 00:03:29,880\n所以未來我們台灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理了目前是朝著這個好那在現今的這種國際局勢發展之下那可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁而我們跟這個軍事合作的對象也可能會沒有邦交的這種情況越來越多\n\n10\n00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:50,059\n草案案件,可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題。我想請國防部這邊務必應該要積極的與他國來做討論,在平等的原則之下避免事件發生之後產生不必要的這種爭端,來引發所謂的這種政治衝突的事件。\n\n11\n00:03:52,130 --> 00:04:21,490\n再來是我想我們有關軍事審判制度的這個議題國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇那包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的刑總長都有與會那由這個法律司進行報告建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭恢復軍事檢查及這個軍法官參審軍法的案件\n\n12\n00:04:22,530 --> 00:04:28,437\n以及恢復軍事審判一到兩個審級。」我想請教部長就是\n\n13\n00:04:30,134 --> 00:04:50,848\n這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎?我跟委員報告這兩件,第一個是講說我們對於沒有邦交國家如果說是涉及講說人員違法,我想這不光國防部注意,而且外交部跟法務部也會介入,所以到時候我們把這個議題討論的話還得聯合其他部會一道來討論。\n\n14\n00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:57,752\n二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n15\n00:05:11,041 --> 00:05:21,192\n我想這有必要大家先做溝通了解所以我想說這個都是共同的我們期望如何但他們可以把他們有那麼困難也做說明將來協調合作的所產生的問題比較好解決\n\n16\n00:05:27,298 --> 00:05:51,052\n好,那依照我們我國現行的這個平時的這個司法還有暫時的軍審的制度來說平時的這個軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來這個審理那軍方可能會有疑慮的說部隊的管理有別於一般的機關是否能夠適當的處分和判決那這個部分國防部應該要如何來觀察\n\n17\n00:05:52,012 --> 00:06:18,884\n這的確文憑發掘的問題,我要跟各位舉一個很簡單的例子,說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆,都由後來交給這個外民一般法律以後,他之後審判結果是不予處分,因為他覺得你這個鬥毆根本沒有造成大家公共的危害,那這個的認知不同就會產生很大的差異,這也就以後我們要強化的地方。\n\n18\n00:06:21,226 --> 00:06:48,206\n那我想我們這個軍事審判的制度能夠這個完備的話我希望我們能夠更加的齊全這是攸關我們國家安全的大事那我們這個不論在法條上的修訂或是在審判制度上的變革都應該更加的謹慎將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及這個人權的保障\n\n19\n00:06:49,066 --> 00:07:00,256\n這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分來加重來研議辦理。市長我們努力的目標,重要目標我們會努力。好,那謝謝部長、謝謝市長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n409\t26648\t謝謝主席,那有請我們邱部長邱文正部長請好,部長早部長早好,謝謝部長,那也謝謝我們今天列席的各位這個我們國防部的相關同仁那我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍這個懲罰法還有這個軍人權益事件的處理法\n29870\t58577\t那這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姊妹來說他們的權益影響可謂相當的甚大那在修法的這個整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆考慮到將來可能發生的這個情境那首先我想就跨國軍事交流的這個問題來做一個討論有鑑於我們台灣與這個其他國家常有軍事上的交流那層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中\n59637\t65310\t那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。\n67045\t88413\t那兩國的國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。歷史上來看,過去美國協防台灣的時候,若美軍在台犯事,美軍可主張有外交豁免權,不受我國司法管轄,並且將美軍引渡回美國來受審。\n90234\t103094\t而後來這個歷經談判簽署協議之後才明示美軍在台沒有這個所謂的豁免特權如今當年的這個協議條約也內容也已經作廢了然後那現在\n104721\t133064\t我國跟盟國的這個軍事合作密切度再度來到這個高點。」我想請教部長對於可能會遇到的兩種情境第一是他國的軍人在台灣違法是否會接受我國這個司法管轄權的管轄第二是我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情勢是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理\n135124\t159773\t我跟委員報告,能請問法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明嗎?謝謝委員。委員您剛剛前面也講得很清楚,當初有中美協防的時候,那是另外一個階段,那個是有特別的規定。那現在您舉的這個例子,如果外國的訓練不論是度假還是交流簡單的這種來這邊受訓或是開會等等,他如果在我們國家犯了法的話,當然是由我們國家來管轄。\n160513\t186556\t我們國家同樣的派到國外去念書的或是說做其他的度假休假也好他的身份雖然是軍人在那邊犯了法的話也是由他們來管轄只有我記得外國他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免那個不是不是在這個交流的範圍那個是固定的一些特定的人那他們有那個在那個交流豁免範圍之內的其他的這種一般的交流就是看在哪裡辦法當地國不會放棄他的管轄權\n188312\t209880\t所以未來我們台灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理了目前是朝著這個好那在現今的這種國際局勢發展之下那可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁而我們跟這個軍事合作的對象也可能會沒有邦交的這種情況越來越多\n210520\t230059\t草案案件,可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題。我想請國防部這邊務必應該要積極的與他國來做討論,在平等的原則之下避免事件發生之後產生不必要的這種爭端,來引發所謂的這種政治衝突的事件。\n232130\t261490\t再來是我想我們有關軍事審判制度的這個議題國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇那包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的刑總長都有與會那由這個法律司進行報告建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭恢復軍事檢查及這個軍法官參審軍法的案件\n262530\t268437\t以及恢復軍事審判一到兩個審級。」我想請教部長就是\n270134\t290848\t這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎?我跟委員報告這兩件,第一個是講說我們對於沒有邦交國家如果說是涉及講說人員違法,我想這不光國防部注意,而且外交部跟法務部也會介入,所以到時候我們把這個議題討論的話還得聯合其他部會一道來討論。\n294850\t297752\t二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n311041\t321192\t我想這有必要大家先做溝通了解所以我想說這個都是共同的我們期望如何但他們可以把他們有那麼困難也做說明將來協調合作的所產生的問題比較好解決\n327298\t351052\t好,那依照我們我國現行的這個平時的這個司法還有暫時的軍審的制度來說平時的這個軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來這個審理那軍方可能會有疑慮的說部隊的管理有別於一般的機關是否能夠適當的處分和判決那這個部分國防部應該要如何來觀察\n352012\t378884\t這的確文憑發掘的問題,我要跟各位舉一個很簡單的例子,說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆,都由後來交給這個外民一般法律以後,他之後審判結果是不予處分,因為他覺得你這個鬥毆根本沒有造成大家公共的危害,那這個的認知不同就會產生很大的差異,這也就以後我們要強化的地方。\n381226\t408206\t那我想我們這個軍事審判的制度能夠這個完備的話我希望我們能夠更加的齊全這是攸關我們國家安全的大事那我們這個不論在法條上的修訂或是在審判制度上的變革都應該更加的謹慎將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及這個人權的保障\n409066\t420256\t這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分來加重來研議辦理。市長我們努力的目標,重要目標我們會努力。好,那謝謝部長、謝謝市長。\n","txt":"謝謝主席,那有請我們邱部長邱文正部長請好,部長早部長早好,謝謝部長,那也謝謝我們今天列席的各位這個我們國防部的相關同仁那我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍這個懲罰法還有這個軍人權益事件的處理法\n那這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姊妹來說他們的權益影響可謂相當的甚大那在修法的這個整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆考慮到將來可能發生的這個情境那首先我想就跨國軍事交流的這個問題來做一個討論有鑑於我們台灣與這個其他國家常有軍事上的交流那層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中\n那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。\n那兩國的國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。歷史上來看,過去美國協防台灣的時候,若美軍在台犯事,美軍可主張有外交豁免權,不受我國司法管轄,並且將美軍引渡回美國來受審。\n而後來這個歷經談判簽署協議之後才明示美軍在台沒有這個所謂的豁免特權如今當年的這個協議條約也內容也已經作廢了然後那現在\n我國跟盟國的這個軍事合作密切度再度來到這個高點。」我想請教部長對於可能會遇到的兩種情境第一是他國的軍人在台灣違法是否會接受我國這個司法管轄權的管轄第二是我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情勢是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理\n我跟委員報告,能請問法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明嗎?謝謝委員。委員您剛剛前面也講得很清楚,當初有中美協防的時候,那是另外一個階段,那個是有特別的規定。那現在您舉的這個例子,如果外國的訓練不論是度假還是交流簡單的這種來這邊受訓或是開會等等,他如果在我們國家犯了法的話,當然是由我們國家來管轄。\n我們國家同樣的派到國外去念書的或是說做其他的度假休假也好他的身份雖然是軍人在那邊犯了法的話也是由他們來管轄只有我記得外國他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免那個不是不是在這個交流的範圍那個是固定的一些特定的人那他們有那個在那個交流豁免範圍之內的其他的這種一般的交流就是看在哪裡辦法當地國不會放棄他的管轄權\n所以未來我們台灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理了目前是朝著這個好那在現今的這種國際局勢發展之下那可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁而我們跟這個軍事合作的對象也可能會沒有邦交的這種情況越來越多\n草案案件,可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題。我想請國防部這邊務必應該要積極的與他國來做討論,在平等的原則之下避免事件發生之後產生不必要的這種爭端,來引發所謂的這種政治衝突的事件。\n再來是我想我們有關軍事審判制度的這個議題國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇那包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的刑總長都有與會那由這個法律司進行報告建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭恢復軍事檢查及這個軍法官參審軍法的案件\n以及恢復軍事審判一到兩個審級。」我想請教部長就是\n這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎?我跟委員報告這兩件,第一個是講說我們對於沒有邦交國家如果說是涉及講說人員違法,我想這不光國防部注意,而且外交部跟法務部也會介入,所以到時候我們把這個議題討論的話還得聯合其他部會一道來討論。\n二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n我想這有必要大家先做溝通了解所以我想說這個都是共同的我們期望如何但他們可以把他們有那麼困難也做說明將來協調合作的所產生的問題比較好解決\n好,那依照我們我國現行的這個平時的這個司法還有暫時的軍審的制度來說平時的這個軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來這個審理那軍方可能會有疑慮的說部隊的管理有別於一般的機關是否能夠適當的處分和判決那這個部分國防部應該要如何來觀察\n這的確文憑發掘的問題,我要跟各位舉一個很簡單的例子,說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆,都由後來交給這個外民一般法律以後,他之後審判結果是不予處分,因為他覺得你這個鬥毆根本沒有造成大家公共的危害,那這個的認知不同就會產生很大的差異,這也就以後我們要強化的地方。\n那我想我們這個軍事審判的制度能夠這個完備的話我希望我們能夠更加的齊全這是攸關我們國家安全的大事那我們這個不論在法條上的修訂或是在審判制度上的變革都應該更加的謹慎將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及這個人權的保障\n這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分來加重來研議辦理。市長我們努力的目標,重要目標我們會努力。好,那謝謝部長、謝謝市長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.409 --> 00:26.648\n謝謝主席,那有請我們邱部長邱文正部長請好,部長早部長早好,謝謝部長,那也謝謝我們今天列席的各位這個我們國防部的相關同仁那我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍這個懲罰法還有這個軍人權益事件的處理法\n\n00:29.870 --> 00:58.577\n那這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姊妹來說他們的權益影響可謂相當的甚大那在修法的這個整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆考慮到將來可能發生的這個情境那首先我想就跨國軍事交流的這個問題來做一個討論有鑑於我們台灣與這個其他國家常有軍事上的交流那層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中\n\n00:59.637 --> 01:05.310\n那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。\n\n01:07.045 --> 01:28.413\n那兩國的國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。歷史上來看,過去美國協防台灣的時候,若美軍在台犯事,美軍可主張有外交豁免權,不受我國司法管轄,並且將美軍引渡回美國來受審。\n\n01:30.234 --> 01:43.094\n而後來這個歷經談判簽署協議之後才明示美軍在台沒有這個所謂的豁免特權如今當年的這個協議條約也內容也已經作廢了然後那現在\n\n01:44.721 --> 02:13.064\n我國跟盟國的這個軍事合作密切度再度來到這個高點。」我想請教部長對於可能會遇到的兩種情境第一是他國的軍人在台灣違法是否會接受我國這個司法管轄權的管轄第二是我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情勢是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理\n\n02:15.124 --> 02:39.773\n我跟委員報告,能請問法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明嗎?謝謝委員。委員您剛剛前面也講得很清楚,當初有中美協防的時候,那是另外一個階段,那個是有特別的規定。那現在您舉的這個例子,如果外國的訓練不論是度假還是交流簡單的這種來這邊受訓或是開會等等,他如果在我們國家犯了法的話,當然是由我們國家來管轄。\n\n02:40.513 --> 03:06.556\n我們國家同樣的派到國外去念書的或是說做其他的度假休假也好他的身份雖然是軍人在那邊犯了法的話也是由他們來管轄只有我記得外國他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免那個不是不是在這個交流的範圍那個是固定的一些特定的人那他們有那個在那個交流豁免範圍之內的其他的這種一般的交流就是看在哪裡辦法當地國不會放棄他的管轄權\n\n03:08.312 --> 03:29.880\n所以未來我們台灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理了目前是朝著這個好那在現今的這種國際局勢發展之下那可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁而我們跟這個軍事合作的對象也可能會沒有邦交的這種情況越來越多\n\n03:30.520 --> 03:50.059\n草案案件,可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題。我想請國防部這邊務必應該要積極的與他國來做討論,在平等的原則之下避免事件發生之後產生不必要的這種爭端,來引發所謂的這種政治衝突的事件。\n\n03:52.130 --> 04:21.490\n再來是我想我們有關軍事審判制度的這個議題國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇那包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的刑總長都有與會那由這個法律司進行報告建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭恢復軍事檢查及這個軍法官參審軍法的案件\n\n04:22.530 --> 04:28.437\n以及恢復軍事審判一到兩個審級。」我想請教部長就是\n\n04:30.134 --> 04:50.848\n這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎?我跟委員報告這兩件,第一個是講說我們對於沒有邦交國家如果說是涉及講說人員違法,我想這不光國防部注意,而且外交部跟法務部也會介入,所以到時候我們把這個議題討論的話還得聯合其他部會一道來討論。\n\n04:54.850 --> 04:57.752\n二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n05:11.041 --> 05:21.192\n我想這有必要大家先做溝通了解所以我想說這個都是共同的我們期望如何但他們可以把他們有那麼困難也做說明將來協調合作的所產生的問題比較好解決\n\n05:27.298 --> 05:51.052\n好,那依照我們我國現行的這個平時的這個司法還有暫時的軍審的制度來說平時的這個軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來這個審理那軍方可能會有疑慮的說部隊的管理有別於一般的機關是否能夠適當的處分和判決那這個部分國防部應該要如何來觀察\n\n05:52.012 --> 06:18.884\n這的確文憑發掘的問題,我要跟各位舉一個很簡單的例子,說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆,都由後來交給這個外民一般法律以後,他之後審判結果是不予處分,因為他覺得你這個鬥毆根本沒有造成大家公共的危害,那這個的認知不同就會產生很大的差異,這也就以後我們要強化的地方。\n\n06:21.226 --> 06:48.206\n那我想我們這個軍事審判的制度能夠這個完備的話我希望我們能夠更加的齊全這是攸關我們國家安全的大事那我們這個不論在法條上的修訂或是在審判制度上的變革都應該更加的謹慎將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及這個人權的保障\n\n06:49.066 --> 07:00.256\n這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分來加重來研議辦理。市長我們努力的目標,重要目標我們會努力。好,那謝謝部長、謝謝市長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.409,"end":26.648,"text":"謝謝主席,那有請我們邱部長邱文正部長請好,部長早部長早好,謝謝部長,那也謝謝我們今天列席的各位這個我們國防部的相關同仁那我們今天要審查的是陸海空軍這個懲罰法還有這個軍人權益事件的處理法"},{"start":29.87,"end":58.577,"text":"那這兩部法對於我們國軍的兄弟姊妹來說他們的權益影響可謂相當的甚大那在修法的這個整個過程當中也應該要未雨綢繆考慮到將來可能發生的這個情境那首先我想就跨國軍事交流的這個問題來做一個討論有鑑於我們台灣與這個其他國家常有軍事上的交流那層級還有規模也都逐漸的在提升當中"},{"start":59.637,"end":65.31,"text":"那可能有互相派駐的這個受訓、協訓甚至是參加軍演的這個機會。"},{"start":67.045,"end":88.413,"text":"那兩國的國軍之間的互動會牽涉到法令適用及司法管轄的相關問題。歷史上來看,過去美國協防台灣的時候,若美軍在台犯事,美軍可主張有外交豁免權,不受我國司法管轄,並且將美軍引渡回美國來受審。"},{"start":90.234,"end":103.094,"text":"而後來這個歷經談判簽署協議之後才明示美軍在台沒有這個所謂的豁免特權如今當年的這個協議條約也內容也已經作廢了然後那現在"},{"start":104.721,"end":133.064,"text":"我國跟盟國的這個軍事合作密切度再度來到這個高點。」我想請教部長對於可能會遇到的兩種情境第一是他國的軍人在台灣違法是否會接受我國這個司法管轄權的管轄第二是我國的國軍在他國若有違法的情勢是否會受到該國法律的管轄或是能夠交由本國自己來處理"},{"start":135.124,"end":159.773,"text":"我跟委員報告,能請問法律司司長跟你做簡單的說明嗎?謝謝委員。委員您剛剛前面也講得很清楚,當初有中美協防的時候,那是另外一個階段,那個是有特別的規定。那現在您舉的這個例子,如果外國的訓練不論是度假還是交流簡單的這種來這邊受訓或是開會等等,他如果在我們國家犯了法的話,當然是由我們國家來管轄。"},{"start":160.513,"end":186.556,"text":"我們國家同樣的派到國外去念書的或是說做其他的度假休假也好他的身份雖然是軍人在那邊犯了法的話也是由他們來管轄只有我記得外國他們那邊有一個相關的外交人員的豁免那個不是不是在這個交流的範圍那個是固定的一些特定的人那他們有那個在那個交流豁免範圍之內的其他的這種一般的交流就是看在哪裡辦法當地國不會放棄他的管轄權"},{"start":188.312,"end":209.88,"text":"所以未來我們台灣的部分就是會遵照這個方式來處理了目前是朝著這個好那在現今的這種國際局勢發展之下那可能預期跨國間的這種軍事交流會更加的頻繁而我們跟這個軍事合作的對象也可能會沒有邦交的這種情況越來越多"},{"start":210.52,"end":230.059,"text":"草案案件,可能牽涉到高度的政治因素以及我們國家地位的問題。我想請國防部這邊務必應該要積極的與他國來做討論,在平等的原則之下避免事件發生之後產生不必要的這種爭端,來引發所謂的這種政治衝突的事件。"},{"start":232.13,"end":261.49,"text":"再來是我想我們有關軍事審判制度的這個議題國防部在今年3月曾經舉辦過以軍事審判為主題的學術論壇那包括國防部的徐副部長及最高檢察署的刑總長都有與會那由這個法律司進行報告建議未來可以設置軍事行政訴訟庭恢復軍事檢查及這個軍法官參審軍法的案件"},{"start":262.53,"end":268.437,"text":"以及恢復軍事審判一到兩個審級。」我想請教部長就是"},{"start":270.134,"end":290.848,"text":"這場研討會所建議的內容都是我們國防部所主張的嗎?我跟委員報告這兩件,第一個是講說我們對於沒有邦交國家如果說是涉及講說人員違法,我想這不光國防部注意,而且外交部跟法務部也會介入,所以到時候我們把這個議題討論的話還得聯合其他部會一道來討論。"},{"start":294.85,"end":297.752,"text":"二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具"},{"start":311.041,"end":321.192,"text":"我想這有必要大家先做溝通了解所以我想說這個都是共同的我們期望如何但他們可以把他們有那麼困難也做說明將來協調合作的所產生的問題比較好解決"},{"start":327.298,"end":351.052,"text":"好,那依照我們我國現行的這個平時的這個司法還有暫時的軍審的制度來說平時的這個軍法案件交由一般的司法機關來這個審理那軍方可能會有疑慮的說部隊的管理有別於一般的機關是否能夠適當的處分和判決那這個部分國防部應該要如何來觀察"},{"start":352.012,"end":378.884,"text":"這的確文憑發掘的問題,我要跟各位舉一個很簡單的例子,說在這個營區裡面有幾個兵員鬥毆,都由後來交給這個外民一般法律以後,他之後審判結果是不予處分,因為他覺得你這個鬥毆根本沒有造成大家公共的危害,那這個的認知不同就會產生很大的差異,這也就以後我們要強化的地方。"},{"start":381.226,"end":408.206,"text":"那我想我們這個軍事審判的制度能夠這個完備的話我希望我們能夠更加的齊全這是攸關我們國家安全的大事那我們這個不論在法條上的修訂或是在審判制度上的變革都應該更加的謹慎將所有可能涉及的因素納進來通盤考量更必須要顧及我們官兵的個人權益以及這個人權的保障"},{"start":409.066,"end":420.256,"text":"這個部分我會請我們國防部相關部會應該要對於這個部分來加重來研議辦理。市長我們努力的目標,重要目標我們會努力。好,那謝謝部長、謝謝市長。"}]}}}}