{"id":151641,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151641","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb33f21bf7cb3253bacb903698ddfaa754aeadb1108e4b844321b76f479fa821a835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"10:40:12 - 10:51:24","影片長度":"00:11:12","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍-檢討112年家庭暴力防治法修正施行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、內政部警政署、法務部、文化部、金融監督管理委員會就「非法網站創意私房案件，提出兒少性影像防制具體作為、檢討報告，並就兒童及少年性剝削防制條例修正方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-13"},"duration":672,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:51:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:40:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":596,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（10時40分）謝謝主席，有請薛部長，同時也請張秀鴛司長。"],["主席：請薛部長、請張司長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。雖然還有一個月左右的時間。"],["薛部長瑞元：不到了。"],["王委員正旭：部長繼續辛苦，因為其實保護民眾所有的工程或者是事情，真的是沒有所謂可以休息的時間，就麻煩部長和同仁們繼續努力。","今天要跟部長討論的主題是健全高齡者受暴防治機制，早上也聽了部長的簡報，另外，如果時間夠，我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推的「無管人生」到底有沒有什麼問題或是成效。","我們先看健全高齡者受暴的因應跟防治機制。我們也知道家有一老如有一寶，而兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁，所以不管是年長者或者是兒童們，我們都很希望能夠用社會的力量來提供一個良好、安全的生活環境，讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中，都能夠受到很好的保護，讓他們免於各種可能的風險。我們也知道其實過去這五年來，老人受暴的通報率成長了52%，而且在今年2月3日，那時候可能是因應春節的關係，所以衛福部也特別把受虐、受暴這些訊息傳遞給民眾們，看起來主要的原因之一，就是這些老人受暴的成因分析裡面，好像跟照顧或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的。所以這邊想要瞭解的就是，通常這些施暴者如果又是照顧者的話，到底你們分析的這麼多案件裡面，這樣的百分比是多少？如果有這樣的狀況的話，它跟季節性有沒有關係？因為我們看到好像春節就會比較擔心，就會提供民眾作為一些參考。如果不是季節的話，這個案件是不是非季節因素造成的風險比較低？有沒有相關內部的分析可以提供給我們做參考？"],["薛部長瑞元：這裡面大概有一些數字，以去年來講，老人保護案件大概2萬2,540件，其中直系血親卑親屬作為施暴者的大概占百分之五十五，就是說子女或是孫子女對老人施暴的就大概占了百分之五十五；其次就是親密關係伴侶，比方說夫妻之間，這一種占了百分之二十六；另外就是其他家庭成員，大概占了百分之十四；非家庭成員大概就比較少，大概是百分之五。有時候我們會覺得是不是像照服員或是外籍看護會比較容易有這種案件，但其實不是，而是自己的子女，這是最多的。"],["王委員正旭：所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片，就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的，我們都替他們擔心，也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該，除了相關的刑責以外，我們也期待多瞭解一下。剛剛部長也提供一些訊息告訴我們說……"],["薛部長瑞元：直系血親卑親屬或是親密關係通常會是同住的人，同住的人有比較多施暴的現象，當然有些是因為老人家有失能的狀況或者已經有失智，所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的要求，照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話，他一抓狂起來就會出現這種動作，所以為什麼同居家屬的比例會比較高，也是有原因的。"],["王委員正旭：是，剛剛有提到季節性，一年裡面有那麼長的時間，會不會在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況？"],["薛部長瑞元：季節是比較不會啦，但是不管是哪一種情形的家暴，我們發現都是節慶的時間發生得比較多，所以連假也不要休太久。"],["王委員正旭：其實照顧者也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程中所帶來的這種相對的壓力，所以如何能夠提供照顧者好的、另外的適應方式？可能也要麻煩衛福部，因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣，我們如果知道它的可能成因的話，所以下面要討論的就是，你們有哪一些作為可以讓我們在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候能提早因應，因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者，當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們，可是在很難避免的情況之下，如果我們現在能夠有好的因應措施或作為的話，希望能夠保護更多的年長者。我們可以看下面這一張，到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的軟體應用程式等等，至少可以知道當施暴者對老人家提供或者造成身體上或語言上的暴力的時候，我們要如何提早來因應？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分其實是這樣子，即使有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式，通常他也很難用在自己的家裡，你如果是在照護機構裡面或者是社區的日照中心這一類的話，也許還做得到。但是從我們的統計來看，親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是占最多數的，等於這些科技的東西就比較派不上用場，所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬知道，其實政府的長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們，照顧這些老人家並不是只能依靠你這個家屬，那不是唯一的方法，要讓他們知道他們有地方可以來尋求幫助或協助，我覺得這才是最重要的。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以我們希望這是一個好的照顧網絡，不只是各個單位做自己的事情，而是希望碰到問題的時候可以有更好的思維模式，不管從網絡的合作或者是扎根社區整體地去保護所有社區的居民，包括這些年長者。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["王委員正旭：謝謝。針對無管人生，我們也希望多瞭解一點點，雖然礙於時間的關係，但我還是想瞭解一下。其實衛福部在兩年前就開始希望讓留置鼻胃管的民眾能夠有機會把管子拔除，重新享受他作為一個人可以從嘴巴來進食，但到目前為止，好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制，因為從111年6月1日開始執行到目前為止，就我們瞭解，只有200件左右有透過健保申請，這個量似乎跟當初的預估有很大的落差，不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪些困境，或者有哪些是需要重新提出來檢討的部分？"],["薛部長瑞元：關於這部分，如果健保能夠提供一個適當的誘因，應該是有幫助的，也就是說放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便，就直接用liquid diet直接灌食，這樣對照顧者好像比較方便，但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話，他就失去了咀嚼、吞嚥這一些功能恢復的機會，所以兩者之間要去做一些平衡，也就是說其實我們如果要拔除鼻胃管，健保要提供一個誘因，這樣拔除之後，照顧者不會覺得要去餵食是一個困難的事情，倒不如直接灌食是比較方便，讓這個狀況可以扭轉。"],["王委員正旭：所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施，讓這些插鼻胃管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把鼻胃管拔除，同時有更好的生活品質，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王正旭委員。現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時51分）","繼續開會（11時1分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","李坤城","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","黃珊珊","何欣純","黃國昌","李彥秀","洪孟楷","羅智強","徐欣瑩","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","盧縣一","蘇清泉","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「家暴零容忍─ 檢討 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77.114, \"end\": 77.474, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 77.474, \"end\": 77.695, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 77.695, \"end\": 77.995, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.995, \"end\": 78.276, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 78.276, \"end\": 78.456, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 78.456, \"end\": 78.616, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"翁\", \"start\": 78.616, \"end\": 79.317, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 79.317, \"end\": 79.577, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 79.577, \"end\": 79.958, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 79.958, \"end\": 80.198, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 80.198, \"end\": 80.318, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 80.318, \"end\": 80.599, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 80.599, \"end\": 80.799, \"score\": 0.999}, 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\"end\": 402.294, \"text\": \"在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 378.977, \"end\": 379.197, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 379.197, \"end\": 380.598, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 380.598, \"end\": 381.019, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 381.019, \"end\": 381.539, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 381.539, \"end\": 381.659, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 381.659, \"end\": 381.879, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 381.879, \"end\": 382.059, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 382.059, \"end\": 382.22, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 382.22, \"end\": 382.52, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 382.52, \"end\": 383.1, \"score\": 0.999}, 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\"start\": 668.723, \"end\": 668.923, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 668.923, \"end\": 669.224, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 669.224, \"end\": 669.244, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,552 --> 00:00:13,659\n謝謝主席我們有請薛部長同時也請張秀恩司長\n\n2\n00:00:23,991 --> 00:00:42,244\n請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力\n\n3\n00:00:43,485 --> 00:01:06,980\n那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡\n\n4\n00:01:08,081 --> 00:01:23,783\n者受暴的因應跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是\n\n5\n00:01:24,464 --> 00:01:39,012\n兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險\n\n6\n00:01:40,393 --> 00:02:01,052\n那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們\n\n7\n00:02:06,056 --> 00:02:22,358\n那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是\n\n8\n00:02:23,439 --> 00:02:45,220\n通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性我們看到的就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考\n\n9\n00:02:45,660 --> 00:02:57,922\n那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考\n\n10\n00:03:00,212 --> 00:03:24,024\n這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55%\n\n11\n00:03:26,005 --> 00:03:30,827\n其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍\n\n12\n00:03:54,780 --> 00:04:06,169\n外籍的這些看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女這是最多的\n\n13\n00:04:08,431 --> 00:04:22,679\n所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們都覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該\n\n14\n00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:45,542\n除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象\n\n15\n00:04:46,343 --> 00:05:00,677\n那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求\n\n16\n00:05:02,178 --> 00:05:10,362\n照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話,就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這些同居的家屬的話,比例會比較高,也是有原因的\n\n17\n00:05:23,467 --> 00:05:50,938\n是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況季節是比較不會啦但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生發生的比較所以連假也不要休太久\n\n18\n00:05:52,619 --> 00:06:17,636\n所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們\n\n19\n00:06:18,977 --> 00:06:42,294\n在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張\n\n20\n00:06:43,135 --> 00:07:02,587\n到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來因應\n\n21\n00:07:04,306 --> 00:07:14,928\n這個部分的話其實是這樣子如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話通常他很難用在自己的家裡\n\n22\n00:07:16,479 --> 00:07:39,292\n就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在\n\n23\n00:07:40,578 --> 00:07:53,798\n等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說\n\n24\n00:07:55,307 --> 00:08:24,945\n其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的\n\n25\n00:08:25,407 --> 00:08:43,849\n是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者\n\n26\n00:08:45,531 --> 00:09:02,433\n謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的\n\n27\n00:09:02,953 --> 00:09:28,353\n民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請\n\n28\n00:09:29,694 --> 00:09:47,668\n似乎這個量是有點跟當初預估可能會有很大的落差不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說\n\n29\n00:09:51,889 --> 00:10:10,051\n你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個LiquidArt就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話\n\n30\n00:10:11,853 --> 00:10:30,741\n他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說即使我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個\n\n31\n00:10:31,861 --> 00:10:45,788\n一個誘因,這樣拔除之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」\n\n32\n00:10:50,350 --> 00:11:09,244\n所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10552\t13659\t謝謝主席我們有請薛部長同時也請張秀恩司長\n23991\t42244\t請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力\n43485\t66980\t那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡\n68081\t83783\t者受暴的因應跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是\n84464\t99012\t兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險\n100393\t121052\t那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們\n126056\t142358\t那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是\n143439\t165220\t通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性我們看到的就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考\n165660\t177922\t那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考\n180212\t204024\t這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55%\n206005\t210827\t其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍\n234780\t246169\t外籍的這些看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女這是最多的\n248431\t262679\t所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們都覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該\n264080\t285542\t除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象\n286343\t300677\t那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求\n302178\t310362\t照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話,就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這些同居的家屬的話,比例會比較高,也是有原因的\n323467\t350938\t是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況季節是比較不會啦但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生發生的比較所以連假也不要休太久\n352619\t377636\t所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們\n378977\t402294\t在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張\n403135\t422587\t到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來因應\n424306\t434928\t這個部分的話其實是這樣子如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話通常他很難用在自己的家裡\n436479\t459292\t就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在\n460578\t473798\t等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說\n475307\t504945\t其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的\n505407\t523849\t是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者\n525531\t542433\t謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的\n542953\t568353\t民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請\n569694\t587668\t似乎這個量是有點跟當初預估可能會有很大的落差不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說\n591889\t610051\t你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個Liquid Art就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話\n611853\t630741\t他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說即使我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個\n631861\t645788\t一個誘因,這樣拔除之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」\n650350\t669244\t所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們有請薛部長同時也請張秀恩司長\n請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力\n那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡\n者受暴的因應跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是\n兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險\n那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們\n那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是\n通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性我們看到的就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考\n那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考\n這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55%\n其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍\n外籍的這些看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女這是最多的\n所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們都覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該\n除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象\n那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求\n照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話,就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這些同居的家屬的話,比例會比較高,也是有原因的\n是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況季節是比較不會啦但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生發生的比較所以連假也不要休太久\n所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們\n在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張\n到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來因應\n這個部分的話其實是這樣子如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話通常他很難用在自己的家裡\n就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在\n等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說\n其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的\n是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者\n謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的\n民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請\n似乎這個量是有點跟當初預估可能會有很大的落差不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說\n你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個Liquid Art就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話\n他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說即使我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個\n一個誘因,這樣拔除之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」\n所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.552 --> 00:13.659\n謝謝主席我們有請薛部長同時也請張秀恩司長\n\n00:23.991 --> 00:42.244\n請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力\n\n00:43.485 --> 01:06.980\n那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡\n\n01:08.081 --> 01:23.783\n者受暴的因應跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是\n\n01:24.464 --> 01:39.012\n兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險\n\n01:40.393 --> 02:01.052\n那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們\n\n02:06.056 --> 02:22.358\n那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是\n\n02:23.439 --> 02:45.220\n通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性我們看到的就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考\n\n02:45.660 --> 02:57.922\n那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考\n\n03:00.212 --> 03:24.024\n這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55%\n\n03:26.005 --> 03:30.827\n其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍\n\n03:54.780 --> 04:06.169\n外籍的這些看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女這是最多的\n\n04:08.431 --> 04:22.679\n所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們都覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該\n\n04:24.080 --> 04:45.542\n除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象\n\n04:46.343 --> 05:00.677\n那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求\n\n05:02.178 --> 05:10.362\n照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話,就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這些同居的家屬的話,比例會比較高,也是有原因的\n\n05:23.467 --> 05:50.938\n是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況季節是比較不會啦但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生發生的比較所以連假也不要休太久\n\n05:52.619 --> 06:17.636\n所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們\n\n06:18.977 --> 06:42.294\n在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張\n\n06:43.135 --> 07:02.587\n到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來因應\n\n07:04.306 --> 07:14.928\n這個部分的話其實是這樣子如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話通常他很難用在自己的家裡\n\n07:16.479 --> 07:39.292\n就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在\n\n07:40.578 --> 07:53.798\n等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說\n\n07:55.307 --> 08:24.945\n其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的\n\n08:25.407 --> 08:43.849\n是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者\n\n08:45.531 --> 09:02.433\n謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的\n\n09:02.953 --> 09:28.353\n民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請\n\n09:29.694 --> 09:47.668\n似乎這個量是有點跟當初預估可能會有很大的落差不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說\n\n09:51.889 --> 10:10.051\n你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個LiquidArt就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話\n\n10:11.853 --> 10:30.741\n他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說即使我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個\n\n10:31.861 --> 10:45.788\n一個誘因,這樣拔除之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」\n\n10:50.350 --> 11:09.244\n所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.552,"end":13.659,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請薛部長同時也請張秀恩司長"},{"start":23.991,"end":42.244,"text":"請張師長雖然還有一個月左右的時間部長繼續辛苦因為其實保護民眾的所有的工程或者是事情真的是也沒有所謂可以休息的時間就麻煩部長還有同仁們繼續努力"},{"start":43.485,"end":66.98,"text":"那今天要跟部長來討論的就是有關於主題就是如何針對健全這個高齡者受暴的防治機制那早上也聽了部長的簡報另外如果時間夠我們希望能夠多瞭解一下臺灣目前在推這個五管人生到底有沒有什麼問題或者是成效的部分那我們先看一下這個健全高齡"},{"start":68.081,"end":83.783,"text":"者受暴的因應跟防治的機制。」我們也知道家有一老如有一寶那對於兒童是我們國家未來的主人翁所以我們都很希望不管是年長者或者是"},{"start":84.464,"end":99.012,"text":"兒童們都能夠用社會的力量來提供良好的一個安全的生活環境讓他們不管是在生活當中或在成長當中都能夠有很好的一個保護讓他們免於各種可能帶來的風險"},{"start":100.393,"end":121.052,"text":"那我們也知道其實過去這五年來這個老人受暴的這個通報率成長了52%而且在今年的2月3號那時候可能是為了因應春節的關係所以這邊委員會特別把這樣受暴的這些訊息傳遞給民眾們"},{"start":126.056,"end":142.358,"text":"那看起來主要原因之一就是可能這些老人在受暴這個成因分析裡面好像跟不管是照顧啦或者是經濟依賴是有一些關係的所以這邊想要了解的就是"},{"start":143.439,"end":165.22,"text":"通常如果這些施暴者又是照顧者的話那到底我們這分析的這幾個這麼多的案件裡面這樣的百分比是多少那如果有這樣的狀況的話那他跟季節性我們看到的就是好像春節就會比較擔心就會提供民眾做一些參考"},{"start":165.66,"end":177.922,"text":"那如果不是季節的話這個案件是不是有受到因為會季節造成的這種風險是比較低的有沒有相關的內部的這些分析可以提供給我們做參考"},{"start":180.212,"end":204.024,"text":"這裡面大概有一些數字以去年來講的話老人保護案件是大概2萬2540件那其中這一個直系血清悲親屬作為施暴者的話大概又佔55%就是說子女或者是說孫子女那對老人施暴的大概就佔了55%"},{"start":206.005,"end":210.827,"text":"其次親密關係辦理夫妻之間賺26%其他家庭成員14%非家庭成員5%所以有時候我們會覺得說那是不是像那種趙夫妍"},{"start":234.78,"end":246.169,"text":"外籍的這些看護會不會比較容易有這種案件?其實不是,是自己的子女這是最多的"},{"start":248.431,"end":262.679,"text":"所以我們有時候也會在網路上看到一些影片就是這些高齡者是怎麼被施暴的我們都覺得替他們很擔心那也覺得這樣的作為真的是不應該"},{"start":264.08,"end":285.542,"text":"除了相關的行則以外,我們也期待多瞭解一下。」那剛剛部長也提供了一些訊息告訴我們說這個就說質疑血清背清宿或者是說這個親密關係通常會是同住啦同住的會比較多施暴的這種現象"},{"start":286.343,"end":300.677,"text":"那他當然其實有些是因為老人家的失能的狀況或者已經有失智所以他沒有辦法配合照顧者的一些要求"},{"start":302.178,"end":310.362,"text":"照顧者如果本身在這方面的知識也不夠的話,就會出現這種動作所以為什麼會這些同居的家屬的話,比例會比較高,也是有原因的"},{"start":323.467,"end":350.938,"text":"是是那剛剛有提到那個季節性就是說在一年裡面有那麼多那麼長的時間那會不會說在哪一些季節的時候特別容易出現這樣的狀況季節是比較不會啦但是其實像不管是哪一種情形的家暴我們發現都是那個節慶的時間發生發生的比較所以連假也不要休太久"},{"start":352.619,"end":377.636,"text":"所以照顧者其實他也很需要有另外的方式來放鬆他在照顧的過程裡面帶來這種相對的壓力所以如何能夠提供這個照顧者好的另外的適應方式也可能要麻煩這邊因為這個策略的確是非常的不一樣我們如果知道他的可能成因的話所以下面要討論的就是那我們有哪一些作為可以讓我們"},{"start":378.977,"end":402.294,"text":"在面對這種年長者受到施暴的時候因為我們將來都有機會變成一個社會的年長者當然我們不希望需要那麼多的人來照顧我們可是這很難避免之下如果我們現在可以能夠有好的應用措施或作為的話希望能夠保護更多的年長者那我們可以看下面這一張"},{"start":403.135,"end":422.587,"text":"到底我們有沒有辦法用現有的或者是更好的一些軟體應用程式等等的來讓至少可以知道說當這個施暴者對我們的老人家提供或者是造成這種身體上的這些或者語言上的這種施暴的時候我們如何能夠提早來因應"},{"start":424.306,"end":434.928,"text":"這個部分的話其實是這樣子如果說有一些軟體應用程式或者一些科技的方式的話通常他很難用在自己的家裡"},{"start":436.479,"end":459.292,"text":"就你如果是在機構裡面照顧機構裡面或者說社區的像說這個日照中心這一類的話也許還做得到但是從我們的統計來看的話親密關係或者是家屬之間的施暴是最佔多數的那這些的話在在"},{"start":460.578,"end":473.798,"text":"等於說這些科技的東西的話就比較派不上用場所以我是認為可能最重要的是要讓這些照顧的家屬讓他們有知道說"},{"start":475.307,"end":504.945,"text":"其實政府長照2.0是有提供一些方法可以來協助他們的這些並不是照顧這些老人家並不是你唯一就是說依靠你這一個家屬唯一的一個方法要讓他們知道說他們有地方可以來求尋求幫助或者尋求協助我覺得這才是最重要的"},{"start":505.407,"end":523.849,"text":"是所以我們很希望這是一個好的照顧網絡不只是各個單位做自己的事情而是希望碰到問題的時候有更好的思維模式不管從網絡網絡的合作啦或者是在跟社區整體的去保護所有社區的居民包括我們這些年長者"},{"start":525.531,"end":542.433,"text":"謝謝那我們也在針對武館人生也希望多了解一點點因為時間的關係我還是想了解因為我們衛福部其實在幾年前就開始三年前兩年前就開始希望能夠讓這些留置鼻胃管的"},{"start":542.953,"end":568.353,"text":"民眾有機會把這個管子拔除,重新享受它當為一個人的時候,可以從嘴巴、從口來禁止食物。」到目前為止,其實好像我們所看到的成效還是有一些限制,因為從11年6月1號開始執行到目前我們去了解的只有200件左右,透過健保的申請"},{"start":569.694,"end":587.668,"text":"似乎這個量是有點跟當初預估可能會有很大的落差不知道目前在執行上有碰到哪一些的困境或者是需要重新提出來檢討的部分我想這部分的話當然健保如果能夠提供一個適當的誘因應該是有幫助的也就是說"},{"start":591.889,"end":610.051,"text":"你放置鼻胃管的原因是照顧比較方便嘛就直接用這個Liquid Art就直接灌食那這樣子的話對照顧者好像是比較方便但是對於這一個受照顧人來講的話"},{"start":611.853,"end":630.741,"text":"他就失去了這個咀嚼啦等等吞唸了這一些的功能恢復的一個機會所以這兩者兩者的話要去做一些平衡啦也就是說即使我們如果要把柱比位管這件事情健保要提供一個"},{"start":631.861,"end":645.788,"text":"一個誘因,這樣拔除之後的話,照顧者仍然不會覺得說要去餵食是一個困難的事情,倒不如直接灌食是比較方便,要讓這個狀況是扭轉。」"},{"start":650.35,"end":669.244,"text":"所以我們期待部裡面也有更好的配套措施來讓我們這些查筆位管的民眾有機會透過大家的努力把這個筆位管拔除那同時有更好的生活品質好那謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝王振旭委員我們現在休息10分鐘"}]}}}}