{"id":151642,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151642","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3973f6dd2381127ad5a1f541440a910baeadb1108e4b844324d0750d4c0dcedb15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:38:33 - 10:52:22","影片長度":"00:13:49","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":829,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:52:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:38:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":507,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時38分）謝謝主席，有請陳主委。"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委你好。主委，最近地震頻傳，我們的核能還好嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：目前還好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：目前有沒有任何的災損，或者是內部需要報修的損傷？"],["陳主任委員東陽：0403地震核一廠、核二廠有燃料池的水溢出，總共加起來大概3,600升，我們及時做了清除、除污，沒有具體的損害。"],["羅委員廷瑋：只有溢出而已，除污就OK，那最近呢？前幾天的地震。"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有，也沒有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝，我想這是非常重要的一個資訊。那我想跟你另外請問，日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策，主委有沒有什麼回應？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想國際媒體或國內媒體都有不同的一些評論，我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音，核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音，但是我也跟委員報告，核安會是核能安全管制的獨立機關，不是能源政策的主管機關。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，主管機關是經濟部，當然我要講的是，在核安會第四次赴日時，日方問臺方，臺灣現在有三座核電廠，是否有新的核電廠的規劃？臺方的回答是，非核家園是臺灣的能源政策，臺灣對此立場並未改變，因此沒有新的核電廠的規劃，在日方問的當下就敢回答，回到國內，我現在問你，你就說不敢回答，而且甚至就跟我講是經濟部的業務。我想我們就直接回應，非核家園就是臺灣最重要的一個能源政策，這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策方向，但是我想問題一、我們在本次報告稱，含氚的廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日「參加第9屆臺日核能管制資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施」出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水，對嗎？請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水，ALPS的處理水排放前後銫-137活度變動範圍各為多少？最高濃度值為多少？較前次排放有無略高？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個我想請同仁來回答一下。"],["張組長淑君：報告委員，因為銫-137是福島事故一個重要的核種，所以從100年福島事故以來，日本都有持續的在做周邊海域的監控，現在如果以全球的背景來講，日本周邊的銫-137在鄰近海域確實會比全球的背景略高，但是日本都有在做監控，我們也持續關注。"],["羅委員廷瑋：較全球的背景略高，那有沒有比上一次排放有略微升高？有掌握嗎？"],["張組長淑君：目前整個大數據來看，都還在一定的範圍以內。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，一定的範圍內，我覺得你回答的有點模糊，讓我不能夠分析你回答的內容，我覺得這部分的資料是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，我們再提供資料。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想我們應該掌握的是有沒有更高，而不是在範圍內，我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟民眾來做好相關的防範、我們到底要不要吃海鮮，這些問題我要去做評估，所以其中的數值你可能會後要提供資料給我瞭解一下。","但是，主委，對於含氚廢水，從111年開始臺灣總共4度派員赴日調查，請問這4次的赴日報告，你都有看過嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：最近一次因為我已經上任了，去年的10月底到11月初我有看。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們就這4次的報告來請教主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：我跟羅委員報告，是第4次的報告有看，因為那時候我才上任。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，沒關係，那我們就第4次的報告來跟您詢問一下，主委，你是不是還記得3月28日核能會業務報告時，我依第3次赴日報告內容詢問JAEA大熊分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題，那時候核安會其他同仁代表主委回復要再確認。主委，確認到現在快一個月了，連一個通知都沒有，都不用通知我？都不用跟我講？核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來教委會的次數太少了？完全沒在甩教育及文化委員會。"],["陳主任委員東陽：有點誤會，抱歉！我們當天就確認，它已經拿到ISO，當天就確認了，這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽，我們會再來……"],["羅委員廷瑋：完全沒跟我們回應啊！那我們所準備的資料就會有一些衝突，對不對？我想這個部分很重要，每一次的質詢，我們希望當下如果有最新資訊一定要趕緊回復我們。","就第4次的赴日查證報告第30頁，主委，你自己也可以看到，我們提出了三個問題，我方提出第三方的獨立取採樣及取樣代表性？日方回復依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣，JAEA大熊分析中心不能夠取樣；那我方也提出東電公司及JAEA的分析結果是否出現不一致？日方答復有關數據第三方只求準確性，是否不一致並非第三方要注意的；我方這個部分還問了JAEA大熊分析實驗中心實驗室認證辦理進度？然後日方當時也回復ISO正在進行中。這個我剛剛已經有得到你的回應了。","我們現在要跟你請問，如果第4次還在說要設ISO，為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了相關的認證？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你的報告裡面這樣寫的。"],["張組長淑君：這個報告是我們去年10月出國以後在11月的時候撰寫的，在3月的時候我們就確定他們已經取得了ISO的認證。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度？尤其11月你就在問，到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他，那12月、1月、2月不用去追問他？我覺得這部分螺絲有點鬆了。","第一題跟第二題是我剛剛有問的，主委，大熊分析中心是JAEA在福島的一個部門，位於福島第一核電廠內，主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究，並為經產省指定之ALPS處理水監測的第三方驗證單位。本席想請問，既然大熊分析研究中心是經產省指定之ALPS處理水監測的第三方驗證單位，但是對於取樣的部分，日方回應，依規定僅能由設施經營者取樣，JAEA分析中心是不能夠去取樣的，只能受政府委託分析，但可共同見證取樣，而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責。主委，可見第三方該具有的獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有，請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位？這樣做為第三方的檢測單位意義何在？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想就像我們國家海域計畫，取樣的單位跟我們實驗、檢測的單位，其實它是分開的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我們現在就是擔心，它取的樣並不是我們最直接、最想要去瞭解的。"],["陳主任委員東陽：它各個部門有一些分工，比如說我們的海水、進口食物抽檢，我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責，他的這些樣品其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容，他送到我們實驗室來，大概就是一個編號，由我們實驗室做一些檢測，結果我們再送回原來送樣的單位，由他們來公布。我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們彙整各部會所有的資訊放在那邊，所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再者，大熊分析研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室間比對活動，未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對，顯然大熊分析研究中心並未符合IAEA以及NRA審查標準。主委，你有沒有什麼答復？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個比對就是實驗室之間實驗的精確度，它通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對啊！"],["陳主任委員東陽：同樣的試體、同樣的試片做一些比較，那麼我們也藉此來確認或者是有信心來瞭解我們目前實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關認知，我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情，所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：在報告的第16頁，我方有提問，日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室（ALMERA）的成員參與檢視海水分析的作業，不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的活動或實驗室之間分析比對，有嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作，應該是有比對實驗，就是我們的輻射偵測中心跟日本其實是有一些聯繫。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，對於所有這些，不管是實驗室派員去瞭解，我們都希望能夠更縝密，目的就是希望實驗室所作出的任何報告，都能夠有助於我們做相關的評估、做相關的政策因應，畢竟這樣的排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見，我們也希望在這個部分，我們可以看到有更緊密、更謹慎的相關評估。","排放了30年才放完，誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題？日本於本月19日中午開始執行第五批次ALPS處理水海洋排放作業，預計排放19天，專家小組將進行安全的審查，我國的作為目前有什麼？可以取得多少相關資訊？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分我們跟東京電力持續關注，剛才我跟委員報告，我們核安會在駐日的代表處有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方，所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後，30年的排放才剛剛開始，它的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注。我還是要提醒三點注意，應要求日方同意臺灣及其他所有利益關係國，長期時間可以定期前往距離排放口較近的區域，進行海水取樣並攜回分析，除確保氚輻射符合限值、驗證的各種活度是否正常，也可以確認ALPS的濾除效果是否隨時間因素衰減。","第二個，即便現在沒有問題，連排30年需要持續和嚴密的監督，畢竟這是前所未有的大規模排放，這我剛剛有提到，可能現在的技術、手段和科技水平並無法更準確地推斷未知之數，但我們都是用最縝密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情。不應該聚焦在氚的危害，即便有數據說明氚對人體無害，比較令人擔心的是，和原先核廢水相比，還有數十種放射性的物質，例如碘、銫，很有可能在淨化過程中未被百分百清除，我們更希望在這個部分能夠有更大幅度的關注，這部分也麻煩核安會，可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，沒有問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時52分）","繼續開會（10時57分）"],["主席：我們現在開始開會。","請張雅琳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葉元之","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","范雲","張嘉郡","吳春城"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會\n列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查 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\"確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 620.958, \"end\": 621.098, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 621.098, \"end\": 621.278, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 621.278, \"end\": 621.459, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 621.459, \"end\": 621.659, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 621.659, \"end\": 621.879, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 621.879, \"end\": 622.339, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 622.339, \"end\": 622.62, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 622.62, \"end\": 623.12, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 623.12, \"end\": 623.421, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 623.421, \"end\": 623.661, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 623.661, \"end\": 624.362, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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\"end\": 654.295, \"score\": 0.324}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 655.683, \"end\": 669.845, \"text\": \"我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 655.683, \"end\": 656.004, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 656.004, \"end\": 656.364, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 656.364, \"end\": 656.524, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 656.524, \"end\": 656.705, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 656.705, \"end\": 656.885, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 656.885, \"end\": 657.025, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"析\", \"start\": 657.025, \"end\": 657.205, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 657.205, \"end\": 657.426, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 657.426, \"end\": 657.846, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 657.846, \"end\": 658.047, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 658.047, \"end\": 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00:01:59,533\n主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答\n\n5\n00:01:59,753 --> 00:02:28,726\n回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制\n\n6\n00:02:29,866 --> 00:02:53,761\n資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高?\n\n7\n00:02:56,687 --> 00:03:25,149\n這個我想請同仁來回答一下報告主席因為涉疫三期是一個福島事故的一個重要的一個合縱所以從那個100年福島事故以來持續的都有在做那個日本都有在做他們周邊的一個海域的一個監控那現在如果以全球的一個背景來講日本周邊的涉疫三期確實在臨近海是確實是會比我們\n\n8\n00:03:25,789 --> 00:03:38,160\n的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內\n\n9\n00:03:47,216 --> 00:04:12,967\n好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估啊所以這個質度啊裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下齁\n\n10\n00:04:13,667 --> 00:04:34,166\n但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初\n\n11\n00:04:35,370 --> 00:05:01,710\n好那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委了第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委上次你是不是還記得我3月28原能會的對不起我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題\n\n12\n00:05:03,127 --> 00:05:31,499\n那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒再甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽\n\n13\n00:05:32,159 --> 00:05:32,279\n解凍案\n\n14\n00:05:50,047 --> 00:06:18,127\n四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方\n\n15\n00:06:19,028 --> 00:06:42,109\n只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問\n\n16\n00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:53,651\n如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊?\n\n17\n00:06:59,171 --> 00:07:22,267\n報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他\n\n18\n00:07:23,248 --> 00:07:50,767\n那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三份驗證單位本席就想請問\n\n19\n00:07:52,128 --> 00:08:14,771\n既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可\n\n20\n00:08:15,672 --> 00:08:31,764\n共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在\n\n21\n00:08:33,348 --> 00:08:50,076\n我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的\n\n22\n00:08:51,085 --> 00:09:05,896\n他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品\n\n23\n00:09:06,823 --> 00:09:36,005\n他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告\n\n24\n00:09:36,581 --> 00:10:01,747\n好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室對實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆\n\n25\n00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:18,876\n我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來\n\n26\n00:10:20,958 --> 00:10:35,013\n確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好\n\n27\n00:10:37,648 --> 00:10:54,295\n那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:55,683 --> 00:11:09,845\n我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結\n\n29\n00:11:11,434 --> 00:11:38,167\n我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估來做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估\n\n30\n00:11:39,367 --> 00:11:58,452\n排放了30年才放完,誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理海洋排放水作業,預計排放19天我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼,可以取得多少相關資訊\n\n31\n00:12:00,876 --> 00:12:16,742\n這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊\n\n32\n00:12:18,769 --> 00:12:46,276\n我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射\n\n33\n00:12:47,296 --> 00:13:11,913\n符合其限制裡面驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法\n\n34\n00:13:12,293 --> 00:13:39,216\n更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有\n\n35\n00:13:40,278 --> 00:13:42,943\n更大幅度關注這部分也麻煩何安慧\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5503\t33350\t好 謝謝主席 有請陳主委有請陳主委羅委員好好 主委您好 主委最近地震頻傳喔我們的核能還好嗎目前還好目前有沒有任何的災損或者是內部需要報休損傷我們0403地震 核一廠核二廠有燃料池的水溢出總共加起來大概3600升\n35796\t40279\t日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策主委有沒有什麼回應?\n67110\t93844\t我想國際媒體或者是國內媒體都有不同的一些評論那麼我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音那麼核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音但是我也跟委員報告核安會是核能安全的管制的獨立機關他不是\n98246\t119533\t主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答\n119753\t148726\t回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制\n149866\t173761\t資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高?\n176687\t205149\t這個我想請同仁來回答一下報告主席因為涉疫三期是一個福島事故的一個重要的一個合縱所以從那個100年福島事故以來持續的都有在做那個日本都有在做他們周邊的一個海域的一個監控那現在如果以全球的一個背景來講日本周邊的涉疫三期確實在臨近海是確實是會比我們\n205789\t218160\t的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內\n227216\t252967\t好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估啊所以這個質度啊裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下齁\n253667\t274166\t但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初\n275370\t301710\t好 那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委了第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好 沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委 上次你是不是還記得我3月28 原能會的對不起 我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題\n303127\t331499\t那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒再甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽\n332159\t332279\t解凍案\n350047\t378127\t四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方\n379028\t402109\t只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問\n403820\t413651\t如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊?\n419171\t442267\t報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他\n443248\t470767\t那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三份驗證單位本席就想請問\n472128\t494771\t既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可\n495672\t511764\t共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在\n513348\t530076\t我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對 是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的\n531085\t545896\t他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品\n546823\t576005\t他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告\n576581\t601747\t好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室對實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆\n603220\t618876\t我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來\n620958\t635013\t確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好\n637648\t654295\t那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎?\n655683\t669845\t我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結\n671434\t698167\t我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估來做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估\n699367\t718452\t排放了30年才放完,誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理海洋排放水作業,預計排放19天我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼,可以取得多少相關資訊\n720876\t736742\t這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊\n738769\t766276\t我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射\n767296\t791913\t符合其限制裡面 驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法\n792293\t819216\t更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有\n820278\t822943\t更大幅度關注這部分也麻煩何安慧\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 有請陳主委有請陳主委羅委員好好 主委您好 主委最近地震頻傳喔我們的核能還好嗎目前還好目前有沒有任何的災損或者是內部需要報休損傷我們0403地震 核一廠核二廠有燃料池的水溢出總共加起來大概3600升\n日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策主委有沒有什麼回應?\n我想國際媒體或者是國內媒體都有不同的一些評論那麼我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音那麼核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音但是我也跟委員報告核安會是核能安全的管制的獨立機關他不是\n主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答\n回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制\n資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高?\n這個我想請同仁來回答一下報告主席因為涉疫三期是一個福島事故的一個重要的一個合縱所以從那個100年福島事故以來持續的都有在做那個日本都有在做他們周邊的一個海域的一個監控那現在如果以全球的一個背景來講日本周邊的涉疫三期確實在臨近海是確實是會比我們\n的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內\n好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估啊所以這個質度啊裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下齁\n但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初\n好 那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委了第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好 沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委 上次你是不是還記得我3月28 原能會的對不起 我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題\n那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒再甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽\n解凍案\n四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方\n只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問\n如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊?\n報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他\n那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三份驗證單位本席就想請問\n既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可\n共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在\n我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對 是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的\n他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品\n他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告\n好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室對實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆\n我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來\n確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好\n那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎?\n我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結\n我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估來做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估\n排放了30年才放完,誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理海洋排放水作業,預計排放19天我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼,可以取得多少相關資訊\n這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊\n我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射\n符合其限制裡面 驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法\n更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有\n更大幅度關注這部分也麻煩何安慧\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.503 --> 00:33.350\n好謝謝主席有請陳主委有請陳主委羅委員好好主委您好主委最近地震頻傳喔我們的核能還好嗎目前還好目前有沒有任何的災損或者是內部需要報休損傷我們0403地震核一廠核二廠有燃料池的水溢出總共加起來大概3600升\n\n00:35.796 --> 00:40.279\n日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策主委有沒有什麼回應?\n\n01:07.110 --> 01:33.844\n我想國際媒體或者是國內媒體都有不同的一些評論那麼我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音那麼核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音但是我也跟委員報告核安會是核能安全的管制的獨立機關他不是\n\n01:38.246 --> 01:59.533\n主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答\n\n01:59.753 --> 02:28.726\n回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制\n\n02:29.866 --> 02:53.761\n資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高?\n\n02:56.687 --> 03:25.149\n這個我想請同仁來回答一下報告主席因為涉疫三期是一個福島事故的一個重要的一個合縱所以從那個100年福島事故以來持續的都有在做那個日本都有在做他們周邊的一個海域的一個監控那現在如果以全球的一個背景來講日本周邊的涉疫三期確實在臨近海是確實是會比我們\n\n03:25.789 --> 03:38.160\n的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內\n\n03:47.216 --> 04:12.967\n好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估啊所以這個質度啊裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下齁\n\n04:13.667 --> 04:34.166\n但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初\n\n04:35.370 --> 05:01.710\n好那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委了第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委上次你是不是還記得我3月28原能會的對不起我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題\n\n05:03.127 --> 05:31.499\n那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒再甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽\n\n05:32.159 --> 05:32.279\n解凍案\n\n05:50.047 --> 06:18.127\n四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方\n\n06:19.028 --> 06:42.109\n只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問\n\n06:43.820 --> 06:53.651\n如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊?\n\n06:59.171 --> 07:22.267\n報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他\n\n07:23.248 --> 07:50.767\n那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三份驗證單位本席就想請問\n\n07:52.128 --> 08:14.771\n既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可\n\n08:15.672 --> 08:31.764\n共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在\n\n08:33.348 --> 08:50.076\n我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的\n\n08:51.085 --> 09:05.896\n他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品\n\n09:06.823 --> 09:36.005\n他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告\n\n09:36.581 --> 10:01.747\n好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室對實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆\n\n10:03.220 --> 10:18.876\n我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來\n\n10:20.958 --> 10:35.013\n確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好\n\n10:37.648 --> 10:54.295\n那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎?\n\n10:55.683 --> 11:09.845\n我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結\n\n11:11.434 --> 11:38.167\n我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估來做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估\n\n11:39.367 --> 11:58.452\n排放了30年才放完,誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理海洋排放水作業,預計排放19天我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼,可以取得多少相關資訊\n\n12:00.876 --> 12:16.742\n這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊\n\n12:18.769 --> 12:46.276\n我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射\n\n12:47.296 --> 13:11.913\n符合其限制裡面驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法\n\n13:12.293 --> 13:39.216\n更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有\n\n13:40.278 --> 13:42.943\n更大幅度關注這部分也麻煩何安慧\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.503,"end":33.35,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請陳主委有請陳主委羅委員好好 主委您好 主委最近地震頻傳喔我們的核能還好嗎目前還好目前有沒有任何的災損或者是內部需要報休損傷我們0403地震 核一廠核二廠有燃料池的水溢出總共加起來大概3600升"},{"start":35.796,"end":40.279,"text":"日本經濟新聞要準總統賴清德重新評估核電政策主委有沒有什麼回應?"},{"start":67.11,"end":93.844,"text":"我想國際媒體或者是國內媒體都有不同的一些評論那麼我們都可以聽到不同多元的聲音那麼核安會其實持續都在關注所有各種不同的聲音但是我也跟委員報告核安會是核能安全的管制的獨立機關他不是"},{"start":98.246,"end":119.533,"text":"主管機關是經濟部的一個業務啦那當然我要講的是在核安會第四次赴日時日方問台方台灣現在有三座核電廠是否有新的核電廠的一個規劃台方的回答非核家園是台灣的能源政策台灣對此立場並未改變因此沒有新的核電廠的一個規劃在日方當下就敢回答"},{"start":119.753,"end":148.726,"text":"回到國內我現在問你你就說不敢回答而且甚至就跟我講說是經濟部的一個業務那我想我們就直接回應嘛非核家園就是台灣最重要的一個能源政策這是目前執政黨最堅定不移的一個能源政策的一個方向但是我想問題一我們在這個本次報告所稱到含氚的一個廢水現在就是核能安全委員會112年12月25日參加第九屆台日核能管制"},{"start":149.866,"end":173.761,"text":"資訊交流會議及參訪核能設施出國報告內所稱的ALPS的處理水對嗎?好請問福島縣沿岸海域的海水ALPS的處理水排放前後設137活度穿活度變動範圍各為多少?最高濃度值為多少?較前次排放有無略高?"},{"start":176.687,"end":205.149,"text":"這個我想請同仁來回答一下報告主席因為涉疫三期是一個福島事故的一個重要的一個合縱所以從那個100年福島事故以來持續的都有在做那個日本都有在做他們周邊的一個海域的一個監控那現在如果以全球的一個背景來講日本周邊的涉疫三期確實在臨近海是確實是會比我們"},{"start":205.789,"end":218.16,"text":"的一個全球的一個背景來略高那但是那日本都有在做監控我們也持續關注叫全球的背景略高啦吼那有沒有比上一次排放有略升高有掌握嗎目前整個大數據來看是都還都在一定的範圍以內"},{"start":227.216,"end":252.967,"text":"好一定的範圍內我覺得你回答的有點模糊讓我不能夠分析你到底回答的內容齁我覺得這個部分資料你是不是可以再讓我們更確切的知道一下我想我們應該掌握是有沒有更高而不是在範圍內我就聽不懂到底我要不要跟我們的民眾來做好這個相關的防範我們到底要不要吃海鮮這些問題我要去做評估啊所以這個質度啊裡面的數值你可能要提供會後資料給我了解一下齁"},{"start":253.667,"end":274.166,"text":"但是主委對於含氚廢水我們現在是111年開始台灣總共4度派員赴日調查我們請問這4次的赴日報告你都有看過嗎最近一次因為我那時候上任已經上任了最近一次去年的10月底到11月的初"},{"start":275.37,"end":301.71,"text":"好 那我們就這四次的報告我們來就請教主委了第四次的報告我跟樓委員報告是第四次有看因為那時候我在上面好 沒關係沒關係那我們就第四次的問題來跟您詢問一下主委 上次你是不是還記得我3月28 原能會的對不起 我們核能會的業務報告我依第三次赴日報告內容詢問我們的教養的大型分析研究中心是否拿到ISO認證的問題"},{"start":303.127,"end":331.499,"text":"那時候核安會跟其他同仁代表跟主委回覆要再確認主委確認到現在快一個月連一個通知都沒有都不用通知我都不用跟我講核安會是真的螺絲鬆了還是來的次數教委會的次數太少了完全沒再甩教育文化委員會有點誤會那個抱歉那個我們當天就確認他已經拿到ISO當天就確認那這個部分我們如果有一些疏忽"},{"start":332.159,"end":332.279,"text":"解凍案"},{"start":350.047,"end":378.127,"text":"四次的赴日查證報告第三十頁主委你自己也可以看到我們提出了三個問題我方提出第三方的獨立採樣取樣性、代表性以及日方已經回歸他有回覆依規定只能夠由設施經營者取樣以大雄分析中心他不能夠取樣那我方也做一個東電公司以及佳雅的分析結果是否出現不一致日方答覆有關數據第三方"},{"start":379.028,"end":402.109,"text":"只求準確性是否不一致並非第三方要注意的我方這個部分還做一個大雄分析實驗中心實驗室辦理認證進度然後日方那當時也回覆ISO正在進行中這個我已經有得到你剛剛的一個回應了那我想我們現在要跟你詢問"},{"start":403.82,"end":413.651,"text":"如果第四次還在說要設ISO那為什麼你剛剛還跟我講說已經取得了這個相關的認證?你的報告裡面這樣寫的啊?"},{"start":419.171,"end":442.267,"text":"報告委員這個報告是我們出國以後去年10月出國以後的一個撰寫的所以在11月的時候的一個撰寫那現在都是在3月的時候我們就有確定了他們已經取得了ISO的一個認證所以我覺得追蹤問題是不是應該是你最重要的一個進度尤其11月你就在問到3月我問你的時候你才準備再去問他"},{"start":443.248,"end":470.767,"text":"那12月、1月、2月這個不用去追問他我覺得這部分是螺絲有點鬆了那第一題跟第二題我剛剛有問的嘛主委大雄分析中心現在是較早設置在福島的一個部門位於福島第一核電廠主要進行福島第一核電廠放射性廢棄物與燃料碎片的分析研究並為經產省指定之LPS處理水監測第三份驗證單位本席就想請問"},{"start":472.128,"end":494.771,"text":"既然大雄分析研究中心是經過審定指定為ALPS處理水監測第三方的一個驗證單位但是對於取樣的部分日方回應依規定僅能由設施經營者來取樣教養分析中心是不能夠去取樣的那只能受政府委託分析但可"},{"start":495.672,"end":511.764,"text":"共同見證取樣而取樣的代表性由東電公司負責諸位可見第三方的具有獨立取樣及取樣代表性都沒有請問哪需要設立第三方檢測單位這樣做第三方的檢測單位意義何在"},{"start":513.348,"end":530.076,"text":"我想取樣的單位就像我們這個國家海域計畫取樣的單位跟我們實驗檢測的單位其實它是分開的對 是分開的但是我們現在就擔心嘛它取的樣並不是我們最直接最想要去了解的"},{"start":531.085,"end":545.896,"text":"他這個各個部門有一些分工比如說我們海水進口失誤、抽檢我們在國內也是不同的部會在做負責但是他的這些樣品"},{"start":546.823,"end":576.005,"text":"他其實不會去講什麼樣的具體的內容但是呢他送到我們實驗室來大概就是一個編號那我們實驗室做一些檢測那麼結果呢我們再送回原來送樣的單位那麼由他們來公布那麼我們整合性的儀表板其實就是我們把會診各部會的所有的資訊放在那邊所以你可以一次就看到所有的資訊跟委員報告"},{"start":576.581,"end":601.747,"text":"好那再者我想我PPT2我看一下我們大雄分析的研究中心去年已參與JCAC辦理的實驗室對實驗室間的比對活動未來也考慮參與IAEA辦理的實驗室間比對請主委顯然那個大雄分析研究中心並未符合IR以及NRA審查標準主委你有沒有什麼答覆"},{"start":603.22,"end":618.876,"text":"我們這個比對就是實驗室之間他實驗的精確度他通常是要跟別的單位去做一些比較同樣的試體同樣的試片那做一些比較那麼我們也藉此來"},{"start":620.958,"end":635.013,"text":"確認或者是有信心來了解我們目前的實驗的步驟或者是準確性的相關的認知那麼我們輻射偵測中心其實也有做相關的事情那麼所以我們其實是有經過這個認證的好"},{"start":637.648,"end":654.295,"text":"那在報告的第16頁我方有提問日方也曾邀請IAEA的環境放射性分析實驗室IOMO的成員參與檢視海水分析的一個作業不知我國的實驗室是否也有機會參與類似的一個活動與實驗室之間分析比對有嗎?"},{"start":655.683,"end":669.845,"text":"我們跟日本的分析中心有一個合作應該是有比對實驗就是我們的輻射偵測中心所以跟日本其實是有一些的連結"},{"start":671.434,"end":698.167,"text":"我希望我們所有這些不管是實驗室的一些派員去了解我們都希望能夠更整密目的就是希望實驗室所做出的任何報告都能夠有助於我們做相關的一個評估來做相關的政策因應畢竟這樣子的一個排放水對我們大家來說都是前所未見我們也希望在這個部分上我們可以看到有更緊密更謹慎的一個相關評估"},{"start":699.367,"end":718.452,"text":"排放了30年才放完,誰敢保證30年間都沒有問題日本於本月19日中午開始執行第5批次LOP處理海洋排放水作業,預計排放19天我想這個組成專家去做安全的一個審查我想我國的一個作為目前有什麼,可以取得多少相關資訊"},{"start":720.876,"end":736.742,"text":"這個部分我們持續關注跟東京電力那剛才我跟委員報告我們在駐日的代表處我們核安會有一個專任的人員派駐在那個地方所以我們會第一手拿到相關的資訊"},{"start":738.769,"end":766.276,"text":"我想這樣子最後30年的排放剛剛才開始他的生態後果、經濟後果、政治後果值得關注我還是要提醒注意三點應要求日方同意台灣及其他所有利益國長期時間可以去做定期取得這個距離排放口較近的一個區域進行海水取樣並吸回分析然後除確保穿輻射"},{"start":767.296,"end":791.913,"text":"符合其限制裡面 驗證的一個各種活度是否正常也可以確認LPS的入渠效果能夠是否就衰減因素第二個時間即便現在沒有問題連排30年持續的嚴密的監督畢竟這是前所未有的一個大規模排放這是我剛剛有提到可能現在的技術手段和科技水平並無法"},{"start":792.293,"end":819.216,"text":"更準確的推斷或者是未知之數我們都是用最整密、最嚴格的標準去看待這件事情那不應該聚焦在氚的一個危害即便有數據說明氚對人體無害比較令人擔心的是和原先核廢水相比氚還有數十種放射性的物質例如其他點、色很有可能在淨化過程中未備百分百我們更希望在這個部分能夠有"},{"start":820.278,"end":822.943,"text":"更大幅度關注這部分也麻煩何安慧"}]}}}}