{"id":151643,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151643","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb318d632fb5b8c0aa6e793a383c05d564ceadb1108e4b84432086c014107443c235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"10:46:06 - 10:52:41","影片長度":"00:06:35","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1"},"duration":395,"end_time":"2024-04-24T10:52:41+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T10:46:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":394,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時46分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：邱部長，請。"],["邱部長國正：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。行政院版的陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案，對於軍官、士官、士兵的懲罰，除原有的撤職、降階、降級，記過、罰薪、申誡、檢束之外，新增了剝奪退除給與。在權責長官核定懲罰後，國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休俸、贍養金、退除給與生活補助費、優惠存款利息等。請問部長，新增的這個剝奪退除給與的懲罰原因為何？"],["邱部長國正：就是剛才法律司司長有概略地跟委員報告，就是因為發覺如果這個人要受到處分、要罰款，但他下個月就退了，或者退了以後，才發覺有案子出來要往前追，而要追的話就沒有著落，所以我們把它加進去以後，可以追溯他以往在軍中所犯的案件，可以一直……哪怕退了，我們一樣可以有辦法把他給追回來，該負的刑責也一樣要他來負。"],["羅委員智強：所以等於是在所謂的退伍之前，如果有案件對不對？等於是一個法規補漏的意思嘛！"],["邱部長國正：是，他的行為如果是已經退了，那就是……"],["羅委員智強：除此之外有別的原因嗎？"],["邱部長國正：其他還有什麼考慮嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：跟委員報告，我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定，然後其他沒有特殊的原因，因為退伍以後，他也無職可撤、無薪可罰，然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話，已經沒有任何懲罰的一個效果，所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定，這次有增訂了這個規範。"],["羅委員智強：好。對於剝奪軍人的退除給與，原本在陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例當中，就有規定現役軍士官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑，或因案判處死刑、無期徒刑確定者，以及依陸海空軍懲罰法規定受撤職處分，不發退除給與。","現在我有看到2016年11月民進黨有修正陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例，加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密，觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪，將視刑責輕重剝奪其全數、部分退休俸。也就是說，原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏機密、觸犯國安等刑責可以剝奪退除給與。這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退除給與的適用範圍？"],["邱部長國正：我請法律司長跟你做說明。"],["沈司長世偉：我跟委員報告，原來服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的，後面的那個我記得是判刑確定之後，什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等，原來是在服役條例裡面規範的。這次我們在修正的時候，要跟委員報的是，我們有參考公務員相關的規範，我們對於已經退的人，然後發覺他在服役期間，一定是在服役期間，具現役軍人身分的時候，他所犯下的這些行政責任，可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的……"],["羅委員智強：所以主要還是針對服役期間嘛！"],["沈司長世偉：一定是服役期間。"],["羅委員智強：服役之後的行為規範……"],["沈司長世偉：退伍以後不能懲罰。"],["羅委員智強：很好。我要跟國防部提醒一下，軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛。實際上，軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大，你動輒說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍，連退休金都要納入就要非常審慎，這一點我不知道部長同不同意？"],["邱部長國正：這我一定同意啊！因為我也是軍人的一分子嘛，我當然支持。"],["羅委員智強：對，那我要問了，按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定，包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、怠於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服役機關管理規範、其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕、拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業，這些違紀行為都可以做重大懲處。","我想請問，這裡的重大懲處是包含20萬元以上的財產懲罰嗎？上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪退除給與？有沒有可能？"],["沈司長世偉：確實，20萬以上這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。"],["羅委員智強：對，會擴延到剝奪、退除給與嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：我跟委員報告，第五條、第六條的規範，第五條就是勤務上的行為，你在服勤的時候的行為；第六條原則上就是休假，已經到營外去了……"],["羅委員智強：我講的是會不會到剝奪退除給與？"],["沈司長世偉：應該會。"],["羅委員智強：會？"],["沈司長世偉：但是如果說在營外的行為，除非是列舉的那些事項……"],["羅委員智強：我現在要講的是什麼？跟陸海空軍刑法不同，陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰，我認為在行政懲處上，對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職，須經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金；軍人有違紀行為，按照這個修正草案，請問是誰來剝奪他？"],["沈司長世偉：報告委員，我們將來會劃出一個權責的區分，不是每一個人都……"],["羅委員智強：是權責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：對。"],["羅委員智強：對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：是。"],["羅委員智強：我必須說，在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面，你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎？"],["沈司長世偉：當然懲戒法院他們……"],["羅委員智強：這就是我剛剛強調的，我真的拜託國防部，這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹，不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意，請國防部審慎，以上。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員，部長、司長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是林思銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","馬文君","林楚茵","沈伯洋","黃國昌","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","洪申翰","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","吳思瑤","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:48,980\n給予在權責長官核定懲罰後,國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休奉、善養金、退出給予生活補助費、優惠存款、利息等。」請問部長,新增這個剝奪、退出給予的懲罰原因為何?\n\n3\n00:00:49,961 --> 00:01:04,769\n就剛才我發現事實上有概略跟委員報告就是因為發覺他如果這個人要受到處分要罰款但他下個月就退了或者退了以後才發覺有這個案子出來要往前追\n\n4\n00:01:05,529 --> 00:01:14,491\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n5\n00:01:31,934 --> 00:01:55,646\n那除此之外有別的原因嗎?我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定,然後其他沒有特殊的原因,因為退伍以後他也無職可撤、無薪可罰,然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話已經沒有任何的一個懲罰的一個效果,所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定,我們這次有增訂了這個規範。\n\n6\n00:01:59,027 --> 00:02:21,355\n對於剝奪軍人的退出給予,原本在《陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例》當中,它就有規定現役軍事官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪、判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑或因案判處死刑無期徒刑確定者以及一、陸海空軍懲罰法規\n\n7\n00:02:23,456 --> 00:02:46,814\n定受撤職處分不發退出給予。」現在2016年我有看到11月民進黨有修正《陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例》加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密、觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪、將事刑責輕重、剝奪其權術部分退休奉。也就是說\n\n8\n00:02:52,284 --> 00:03:08,079\n原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏、機密、出安、國安等刑責,可以剝奪退出給予,那這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退出給予的適用範圍?\n\n9\n00:03:11,163 --> 00:03:25,721\n我跟委員報告原來規範服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的後面的那個退出就是可能我記得是判刑確定之後什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等原來是在服役條例裡面那樣規範\n\n10\n00:03:28,884 --> 00:03:55,450\n這次我們在修正的時候,我們有參考公務員相關的規範,我們對於已經退的人,然後發覺他在服役期間,一定是在服役期間,現役軍人身份的時候,他所犯的那些過犯責任的行政責任,可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的...所以主要還是針對服役期間嗎?一定是服役期間。服役之後的那個行為規範。退伍以後不能懲罰。我要跟這個國防部提醒一下,\n\n11\n00:03:57,100 --> 00:04:17,103\n軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛實際上軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大你動輒如果說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍連退休金都要納入就非常審慎這一點不知道部長同不同意?我一定同意我自己也是軍人一份子嘛我當然支持\n\n12\n00:04:17,563 --> 00:04:27,766\n那我要問,按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定,包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範,\n\n13\n00:04:33,188 --> 00:04:51,238\n其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理行政或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業這些違紀行為都可以作重大懲處。」我想請問這重大懲處是包含\n\n14\n00:04:59,062 --> 00:05:11,546\n20萬元以上財產懲罰嗎?上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪、退出、給予?有沒有可能?報告委員對,他確實20萬以上的這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。對,那會\n\n15\n00:05:13,925 --> 00:05:36,988\n廓延到剝奪退儲給予嗎?我跟委員報告第5條第6條的規範第5條它就是勤務上的行為你在扶勤的時候的行為第6條原則上就是休假已經到營外去了我講的是會不會到剝奪退儲給予?應該會但是如果說在營外的行為除非是列舉的那些事項我現在要講的是什麼?\n\n16\n00:05:38,189 --> 00:05:57,899\n跟陸海空軍刑法不同,陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰。我認為,在行政懲處上對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要謹慎,非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職需經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金。軍人有違紀行為,按照這個修正草案,請問是誰來剝奪他?\n\n17\n00:06:00,340 --> 00:06:20,397\n包委,我們將來會畫一個全責的區分,不是每一個人都可以...你是全責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎?對。對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎?是。我必須說在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面,我覺得你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:23,781 --> 00:06:35,055\n這就是我剛剛強調的我真的拜託國防部這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意請國防部審慎以上好謝謝羅志祥委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n549\t2810\t主席有請部長邱部長請部長好行政院版的《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》對於軍官、士官、士兵的懲罰除原有的撤職、降階、降級、忌過、罰薪、申戒、減速之外新增了剝奪、退除\n30258\t48980\t給予在權責長官核定懲罰後,國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休奉、善養金、退出給予生活補助費、優惠存款、利息等。」請問部長,新增這個剝奪、退出給予的懲罰原因為何?\n49961\t64769\t就剛才我發現事實上有概略跟委員報告就是因為發覺他如果這個人要受到處分要罰款但他下個月就退了或者退了以後才發覺有這個案子出來要往前追\n65529\t74491\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n91934\t115646\t那除此之外有別的原因嗎?我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定,然後其他沒有特殊的原因,因為退伍以後他也無職可撤、無薪可罰,然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話已經沒有任何的一個懲罰的一個效果,所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定,我們這次有增訂了這個規範。\n119027\t141355\t對於剝奪軍人的退出給予,原本在《陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例》當中,它就有規定現役軍事官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪、判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑或因案判處死刑無期徒刑確定者以及一、陸海空軍懲罰法規\n143456\t166814\t定受撤職處分不發退出給予。」現在2016年我有看到11月民進黨有修正《陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例》加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密、觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪、將事刑責輕重、剝奪其權術部分退休奉。也就是說\n172284\t188079\t原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏、機密、出安、國安等刑責,可以剝奪退出給予,那這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退出給予的適用範圍?\n191163\t205721\t我跟委員報告原來規範服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的後面的那個退出就是可能我記得是判刑確定之後什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等原來是在服役條例裡面那樣規範\n208884\t235450\t這次我們在修正的時候,我們有參考公務員相關的規範,我們對於已經退的人,然後發覺他在服役期間,一定是在服役期間,現役軍人身份的時候,他所犯的那些過犯責任的行政責任,可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的...所以主要還是針對服役期間嗎?一定是服役期間。服役之後的那個行為規範。退伍以後不能懲罰。我要跟這個國防部提醒一下,\n237100\t257103\t軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛實際上軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大你動輒如果說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍連退休金都要納入就非常審慎這一點不知道部長同不同意?我一定同意我自己也是軍人一份子嘛我當然支持\n257563\t267766\t那我要問,按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定,包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範,\n273188\t291238\t其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理行政或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業這些違紀行為都可以作重大懲處。」我想請問這重大懲處是包含\n299062\t311546\t20萬元以上財產懲罰嗎?上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪、退出、給予?有沒有可能?報告委員對,他確實20萬以上的這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。對,那會\n313925\t336988\t廓延到剝奪退儲給予嗎?我跟委員報告第5條第6條的規範第5條它就是勤務上的行為你在扶勤的時候的行為第6條原則上就是休假已經到營外去了我講的是會不會到剝奪退儲給予?應該會但是如果說在營外的行為除非是列舉的那些事項我現在要講的是什麼?\n338189\t357899\t跟陸海空軍刑法不同,陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰。我認為,在行政懲處上對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要謹慎,非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職需經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金。軍人有違紀行為,按照這個修正草案,請問是誰來剝奪他?\n360340\t380397\t包委,我們將來會畫一個全責的區分,不是每一個人都可以...你是全責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎?對。對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎?是。我必須說在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面,我覺得你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎?\n383781\t395055\t這就是我剛剛強調的我真的拜託國防部這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意請國防部審慎以上好謝謝羅志祥委員\n","txt":"主席有請部長邱部長請部長好行政院版的《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》對於軍官、士官、士兵的懲罰除原有的撤職、降階、降級、忌過、罰薪、申戒、減速之外新增了剝奪、退除\n給予在權責長官核定懲罰後,國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休奉、善養金、退出給予生活補助費、優惠存款、利息等。」請問部長,新增這個剝奪、退出給予的懲罰原因為何?\n就剛才我發現事實上有概略跟委員報告就是因為發覺他如果這個人要受到處分要罰款但他下個月就退了或者退了以後才發覺有這個案子出來要往前追\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n那除此之外有別的原因嗎?我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定,然後其他沒有特殊的原因,因為退伍以後他也無職可撤、無薪可罰,然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話已經沒有任何的一個懲罰的一個效果,所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定,我們這次有增訂了這個規範。\n對於剝奪軍人的退出給予,原本在《陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例》當中,它就有規定現役軍事官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪、判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑或因案判處死刑無期徒刑確定者以及一、陸海空軍懲罰法規\n定受撤職處分不發退出給予。」現在2016年我有看到11月民進黨有修正《陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例》加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密、觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪、將事刑責輕重、剝奪其權術部分退休奉。也就是說\n原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏、機密、出安、國安等刑責,可以剝奪退出給予,那這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退出給予的適用範圍?\n我跟委員報告原來規範服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的後面的那個退出就是可能我記得是判刑確定之後什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等原來是在服役條例裡面那樣規範\n這次我們在修正的時候,我們有參考公務員相關的規範,我們對於已經退的人,然後發覺他在服役期間,一定是在服役期間,現役軍人身份的時候,他所犯的那些過犯責任的行政責任,可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的...所以主要還是針對服役期間嗎?一定是服役期間。服役之後的那個行為規範。退伍以後不能懲罰。我要跟這個國防部提醒一下,\n軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛實際上軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大你動輒如果說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍連退休金都要納入就非常審慎這一點不知道部長同不同意?我一定同意我自己也是軍人一份子嘛我當然支持\n那我要問,按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定,包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範,\n其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理行政或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業這些違紀行為都可以作重大懲處。」我想請問這重大懲處是包含\n20萬元以上財產懲罰嗎?上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪、退出、給予?有沒有可能?報告委員對,他確實20萬以上的這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。對,那會\n廓延到剝奪退儲給予嗎?我跟委員報告第5條第6條的規範第5條它就是勤務上的行為你在扶勤的時候的行為第6條原則上就是休假已經到營外去了我講的是會不會到剝奪退儲給予?應該會但是如果說在營外的行為除非是列舉的那些事項我現在要講的是什麼?\n跟陸海空軍刑法不同,陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰。我認為,在行政懲處上對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要謹慎,非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職需經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金。軍人有違紀行為,按照這個修正草案,請問是誰來剝奪他?\n包委,我們將來會畫一個全責的區分,不是每一個人都可以...你是全責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎?對。對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎?是。我必須說在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面,我覺得你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎?\n這就是我剛剛強調的我真的拜託國防部這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意請國防部審慎以上好謝謝羅志祥委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.549 --> 00:02.810\n主席有請部長邱部長請部長好行政院版的《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》對於軍官、士官、士兵的懲罰除原有的撤職、降階、降級、忌過、罰薪、申戒、減速之外新增了剝奪、退除\n\n00:30.258 --> 00:48.980\n給予在權責長官核定懲罰後,國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休奉、善養金、退出給予生活補助費、優惠存款、利息等。」請問部長,新增這個剝奪、退出給予的懲罰原因為何?\n\n00:49.961 --> 01:04.769\n就剛才我發現事實上有概略跟委員報告就是因為發覺他如果這個人要受到處分要罰款但他下個月就退了或者退了以後才發覺有這個案子出來要往前追\n\n01:05.529 --> 01:14.491\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n01:31.934 --> 01:55.646\n那除此之外有別的原因嗎?我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定,然後其他沒有特殊的原因,因為退伍以後他也無職可撤、無薪可罰,然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話已經沒有任何的一個懲罰的一個效果,所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定,我們這次有增訂了這個規範。\n\n01:59.027 --> 02:21.355\n對於剝奪軍人的退出給予,原本在《陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例》當中,它就有規定現役軍事官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪、判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑或因案判處死刑無期徒刑確定者以及一、陸海空軍懲罰法規\n\n02:23.456 --> 02:46.814\n定受撤職處分不發退出給予。」現在2016年我有看到11月民進黨有修正《陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例》加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密、觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪、將事刑責輕重、剝奪其權術部分退休奉。也就是說\n\n02:52.284 --> 03:08.079\n原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏、機密、出安、國安等刑責,可以剝奪退出給予,那這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退出給予的適用範圍?\n\n03:11.163 --> 03:25.721\n我跟委員報告原來規範服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的後面的那個退出就是可能我記得是判刑確定之後什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等原來是在服役條例裡面那樣規範\n\n03:28.884 --> 03:55.450\n這次我們在修正的時候,我們有參考公務員相關的規範,我們對於已經退的人,然後發覺他在服役期間,一定是在服役期間,現役軍人身份的時候,他所犯的那些過犯責任的行政責任,可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的...所以主要還是針對服役期間嗎?一定是服役期間。服役之後的那個行為規範。退伍以後不能懲罰。我要跟這個國防部提醒一下,\n\n03:57.100 --> 04:17.103\n軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛實際上軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大你動輒如果說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍連退休金都要納入就非常審慎這一點不知道部長同不同意?我一定同意我自己也是軍人一份子嘛我當然支持\n\n04:17.563 --> 04:27.766\n那我要問,按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定,包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範,\n\n04:33.188 --> 04:51.238\n其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理行政或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業這些違紀行為都可以作重大懲處。」我想請問這重大懲處是包含\n\n04:59.062 --> 05:11.546\n20萬元以上財產懲罰嗎?上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪、退出、給予?有沒有可能?報告委員對,他確實20萬以上的這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。對,那會\n\n05:13.925 --> 05:36.988\n廓延到剝奪退儲給予嗎?我跟委員報告第5條第6條的規範第5條它就是勤務上的行為你在扶勤的時候的行為第6條原則上就是休假已經到營外去了我講的是會不會到剝奪退儲給予?應該會但是如果說在營外的行為除非是列舉的那些事項我現在要講的是什麼?\n\n05:38.189 --> 05:57.899\n跟陸海空軍刑法不同,陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰。我認為,在行政懲處上對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要謹慎,非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職需經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金。軍人有違紀行為,按照這個修正草案,請問是誰來剝奪他?\n\n06:00.340 --> 06:20.397\n包委,我們將來會畫一個全責的區分,不是每一個人都可以...你是全責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎?對。對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎?是。我必須說在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面,我覺得你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎?\n\n06:23.781 --> 06:35.055\n這就是我剛剛強調的我真的拜託國防部這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意請國防部審慎以上好謝謝羅志祥委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.549,"end":2.81,"text":"主席有請部長邱部長請部長好行政院版的《陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案》對於軍官、士官、士兵的懲罰除原有的撤職、降階、降級、忌過、罰薪、申戒、減速之外新增了剝奪、退除"},{"start":30.258,"end":48.98,"text":"給予在權責長官核定懲罰後,國防部可以剝奪退伍金、退休奉、善養金、退出給予生活補助費、優惠存款、利息等。」請問部長,新增這個剝奪、退出給予的懲罰原因為何?"},{"start":49.961,"end":64.769,"text":"就剛才我發現事實上有概略跟委員報告就是因為發覺他如果這個人要受到處分要罰款但他下個月就退了或者退了以後才發覺有這個案子出來要往前追"},{"start":65.529,"end":74.491,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人"},{"start":91.934,"end":115.646,"text":"那除此之外有別的原因嗎?我們大概就是參考公務員制定的一個規定,然後其他沒有特殊的原因,因為退伍以後他也無職可撤、無薪可罰,然後就是那些記過等等對他來講的話已經沒有任何的一個懲罰的一個效果,所以說我們也參考公務員相關的規定,我們這次有增訂了這個規範。"},{"start":119.027,"end":141.355,"text":"對於剝奪軍人的退出給予,原本在《陸海空軍軍官事關服役條例》當中,它就有規定現役軍事官犯內亂、外患或貪污罪、判處有期徒刑之刑確定而未宣告緩刑或因案判處死刑無期徒刑確定者以及一、陸海空軍懲罰法規"},{"start":143.456,"end":166.814,"text":"定受撤職處分不發退出給予。」現在2016年我有看到11月民進黨有修正《陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例》加入現役退役軍人如洩漏機密、觸犯國家安全法、國家機密保護法等罪、將事刑責輕重、剝奪其權術部分退休奉。也就是說"},{"start":172.284,"end":188.079,"text":"原來軍人依照陸海空軍懲罰法遭撤職或犯有洩漏、機密、出安、國安等刑責,可以剝奪退出給予,那這次的修法是不是擴大了剝奪退出給予的適用範圍?"},{"start":191.163,"end":205.721,"text":"我跟委員報告原來規範服役條例規範的那些大概都是刑事責任附帶的後面的那個退出就是可能我記得是判刑確定之後什麼樣的刑度可能是剝奪他50%、20%等等原來是在服役條例裡面那樣規範"},{"start":208.884,"end":235.45,"text":"這次我們在修正的時候,我們有參考公務員相關的規範,我們對於已經退的人,然後發覺他在服役期間,一定是在服役期間,現役軍人身份的時候,他所犯的那些過犯責任的行政責任,可能會沒有辦法去做一個相關的...所以主要還是針對服役期間嗎?一定是服役期間。服役之後的那個行為規範。退伍以後不能懲罰。我要跟這個國防部提醒一下,"},{"start":237.1,"end":257.103,"text":"軍人的尊嚴我們國防部要捍衛實際上軍人為我們國家犧牲奉獻很大你動輒如果說要擴大今天懲罰的範圍連退休金都要納入就非常審慎這一點不知道部長同不同意?我一定同意我自己也是軍人一份子嘛我當然支持"},{"start":257.563,"end":267.766,"text":"那我要問,按此次修正的第五條、第六條規定,包括違背或逾越法令執行勤務、違反長官命令或服務機關規範、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服務機關管理規範,"},{"start":273.188,"end":291.238,"text":"其他於執行勤務實質不當行為、故意觸犯刑事法律、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品、酒駕拒絕酒測、性騷擾、性霸凌、違反廉政倫理行政或行政中立規範、未依法兼職或經營商業這些違紀行為都可以作重大懲處。」我想請問這重大懲處是包含"},{"start":299.062,"end":311.546,"text":"20萬元以上財產懲罰嗎?上述的違紀行為是不是都有可能遭到剝奪、退出、給予?有沒有可能?報告委員對,他確實20萬以上的這些相關的懲罰是屬於重大懲罰。對,那會"},{"start":313.925,"end":336.988,"text":"廓延到剝奪退儲給予嗎?我跟委員報告第5條第6條的規範第5條它就是勤務上的行為你在扶勤的時候的行為第6條原則上就是休假已經到營外去了我講的是會不會到剝奪退儲給予?應該會但是如果說在營外的行為除非是列舉的那些事項我現在要講的是什麼?"},{"start":338.189,"end":357.899,"text":"跟陸海空軍刑法不同,陸海空軍懲罰法較偏行政處罰。我認為,在行政懲處上對於剝奪退休金這麼嚴厲的懲處要謹慎,非常謹慎。公務人員違法失職需經懲戒法院的審理後才可以剝奪他的退休金。軍人有違紀行為,按照這個修正草案,請問是誰來剝奪他?"},{"start":360.34,"end":380.397,"text":"包委,我們將來會畫一個全責的區分,不是每一個人都可以...你是全責長官指派人員調查後核定懲處嗎?對。對於重大懲處要召開專案評議會、懲罰諮詢會嗎?是。我必須說在公正度、嚴謹度跟受懲軍人懲罰權益保障救濟上面,我覺得你覺得可以跟懲戒法院達到相同的標準嗎?"},{"start":383.781,"end":395.055,"text":"這就是我剛剛強調的我真的拜託國防部這個部分要非常審慎嚴謹不能變成是行政的濫權跟恣意請國防部審慎以上好謝謝羅志祥委員"}]}}}}