{"id":151649,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151649","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb320e6845a4f63ec5fe793a383c05d564ceadb1108e4b8443278127b5ca753ccb05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"11:01:12 - 11:09:28","影片長度":"00:08:16","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案」案。二、審查本院委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「陸海空軍懲罰法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。四、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「軍人權益事件處理法草案」案。【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1"},"duration":496,"end_time":"2024-04-24T11:09:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T11:01:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":483,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時1分）請邱部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長國正：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長好。剛剛前面有幾個委員在詢答的時候，也有提到近期我們在新聞上面看到很多軍中自傷的事件，讓人非常非常的遺憾，也有幾個委員提到關於在軍中輔導這樣的問題，我想針對幾個部分來跟部長討論。部長你知不知道，比方說我們在討論醫護比的時候，其實在醫療機構設置標準裡面就有訂定相關醫護比必須達到的標準。"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["洪委員申翰：前幾年我們也看到在大專院校裡面也出現很多自傷的事件，其實後來在學生輔導法裡面也訂定了相關的輔導人力跟學生配置的標準。我剛才聽到部長也坦承目前　軍中輔導的人力其實不足夠，我剛才如果沒聽錯的話，部長是這樣說的，你說其實也不足，現在的問題在於不足到底是多不足？我想先問部長，你知不知道現在心輔人員的編現比是多少？一個心輔官要負責多少的現員？"],["邱部長國正：現在大概是將近1比400個人左右。"],["洪委員申翰：沒錯，你看一下心輔人員目前編制大概是460，現有大概390，編現比大概85%，如果以16萬軍力粗估的話，大概一位心輔官負責400員沒有錯，可是問題來了，就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠，那到底多不夠？我們要達到的標準是什麼數字？目前1比400對不對？如果不夠，那是要達到什麼數字？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，我所謂的不夠是怎麼樣，專業人員當然越多越好，但話講回來就是說主任務，而且我們平常領導統御，為什麼單位有這種建置？就是層層主官他就要負這個責，這也是領導統御的一環，所以用這個來彌補，基本上我們就三道關卡可以做心輔的工作。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我同意我們絕對不是靠心輔資源去處理所有的問題，這我完全同意……"],["邱部長國正：是，沒辦法完全靠它。"],["洪委員申翰：可是到目前為止，相比於其他的單位，我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構，包括像在校園裡面，其實大概都有一個心輔官要設多少編制的目標，現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件，目前反而在軍隊裡面是沒有一個目標的。所以我說夠還是我說不夠，其實都沒有一個基準、沒有一個標準，現在是1比400，但我們是不是要做到1比350還是要做到1比300？還是說1比400其實是夠的？這應該要設定一個目標，而不是有多少我就上多少，我們有看到在其他機構裡面，反而是可以用這個方式去緩解一些問題的。大家現在都非常重視軍中心輔資源的部分，所以我們是不是應該仿照護病比或心輔師比，建立一個合理的心輔人員跟負責人員的配比？我們把這個目標定出來，需要多少、差多少，我們預先來做準備，而不是像現在這樣有點像是有一天過一天，或者是反正有多的我就用、沒多的我也不預做準備，可是目前就不夠啊！"],["邱部長國正：跟委員報告，我剛剛所講的概略不夠或夠，我是針對專業人員，專業人員到底要多少數據，這個我們可以來做一個課題研討，但基本上，國軍各有各的專業領域，現在要再培養一些專門心輔的人員，但他的戰鬥動作、他的戰鬥任務還是有的。"],["洪委員申翰：當然。"],["邱部長國正：基本上，我們各級的幹部就是最基本的心輔人員，但這個不能算進去，所以我們可以把一個數據列出來一個百分比……"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們現在講的心輔人當然指的是專業的，他有這方面專業的嘛，不是我今天要用各個不同功能的，我全部硬把他算進去，我覺得這是在專業的部分。我想給你看下面一個數據，在2024年的時候，假設我們的兵員是16萬，假設我現在要維持剛剛所講的心輔人員1比400的配比的話，其實我們預計2029年的時候，我們的兵員會到26萬，將近27萬，就算要維持1比400，而且假設就是剛才說的85%的編現比的話，照理說，心輔人需要增加到650，甚至編制人員要增加到765，恐怕要比現在多出300位，其實那個數字是很高的。針對這個數字，我們接下來五年內要再增加300位，部長有沒有什麼想法？"],["邱部長國正：可以啊，要逐年進步嘛！現在兵員如果來的義務役多，從義務役當中也可以選員啊！"],["洪委員申翰：部長你現在講的沒有錯，但我現在問的是這件事情是我們要提前預備的，部長應該同意嘛，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["洪委員申翰：就算從政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話，他們的系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個，對不對？所以勢必要由義務役的預官或者是心輔官來支撐，可是我們又需要他是專業的，你也不能濫竽充數，所以我們可能要做的事情是什麼？我們現在變成甚至要提前去教育部下面相關的心理或社會工作、諮商相關的系所裡面，擴大來跟他們爭取，鼓勵他們來報考預官、預士，這樣才有辦法因應接下來五年要300位的需求啊！"],["邱部長國正：跟委員報告，這些都同步要做啦！"],["洪委員申翰：對。"],["邱部長國正：我們一個期望出來，最起碼是個目標嘛！"],["洪委員申翰：今天的質詢，我知道大家現在越來越重視，而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代，對於心輔資源看重的程度，一定會比過去來得更高，在這同時，我剛剛都還只是用1比400算，我還沒有假設我們調高到1比350或1比300，我還沒有用這個角度去算，如果我們就需要300名的話，我們不預先準備是不行的。我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因，是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面，才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠、我們的方向上能不能夠，這不是平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的，或者是去海巡現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來，不是的！這是我們要先做準備的事情啊！","所以我剛才說第一個接下來我們應該先建立編現比的標準是什麼，應該仿照在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面，我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力，這是專業評估，這部分交給國防部，可是要有一個標準，我們才有目標，才不會像現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少，可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。我記得之前大家也曾提出質詢，其實他的人力負擔已經過重了，所以我們可不可以第一個先建立標準？這沒有問題嘛，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：沒有問題。"],["洪委員申翰：第二個，我剛才說到五年後我們至少要多300位，這個部分提前準備的話，假設不是只從政戰學院的話，從外部的校園去找到專業的系所裡面鼓勵他們來考預官、預士，這個也要相關的工作計畫去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募，這部分也可以嗎？"],["邱部長國正：也可以。"],["洪委員申翰：請在兩個月之內針對這個問題給我們一個相關的報告可以嗎？"],["邱部長國正：可以啊！"],["洪委員申翰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員，請國防部相關業管於兩個月內提報委員會，謝謝，部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是翁曉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","馬文君","林楚茵","沈伯洋","黃國昌","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅智強","林思銘","洪申翰","翁曉玲","陳冠廷","吳思瑤","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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\"我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 147.095, \"end\": 147.516, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 147.516, \"end\": 147.716, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 147.716, \"end\": 148.336, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.336, \"end\": 148.556, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 148.556, \"end\": 148.676, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 148.676, \"end\": 148.836, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"靠\", \"start\": 148.836, \"end\": 149.357, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 149.357, \"end\": 149.617, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 149.617, \"end\": 150.017, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 150.017, \"end\": 150.357, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": 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00:01:55,788\n大約我們要將近1比400個人左右啦沒錯齁你看一下現在新府人目前編制大概是460那現有在390編線比大概85如果以16萬的軍力出估的話大概一位新府官大概負責400元沒有錯可是問題來了就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠那到底多不夠\n\n6\n00:01:57,419 --> 00:02:26,635\n我們要達到的標準是什麼數字?目前1比400,對不對?那如果不夠,那是要達到什麼數字?部長。是,我跟委員報告,我所謂不夠怎麼樣,講說專業人員當然越多越好,但話講軍人有主任務,而且我們平常領導統一,為什麼這單位裡有這種建制,建制層層主管他就要負這個責,這也是領導統一的一環,所以這個來彌補,所以為什麼基本上我們就有三道關卡,可以做這些辛苦的工作。\n\n7\n00:02:27,095 --> 00:02:54,773\n我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的\n\n8\n00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,062\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n9\n00:03:07,984 --> 00:03:13,827\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n10\n00:03:36,958 --> 00:03:56,379\n預先來做準備,而不是現在有點像是有一天過一天,或者是反正有多的我就用,沒多的我也不預作準備,可是目前就不夠啊,副長。是,我跟委員報告,我是所以剛剛就講說概略不夠或夠,我是針對專業人員,專業人員到底要有多少數據,這我們可以大陸來一個課題研討。\n\n11\n00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,061\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n12\n00:04:18,027 --> 00:04:31,533\n不懂,我們現在在講的欣甫仁丹指的是專業的嘛,他有這個方面專業的嘛,不是我今天要用各個不同的功能的我全部硬把它算進去,我覺得是在專業的部分,下面不懂我想給你看下面一個數據喔,再往下,再往下,再往下,好。\n\n13\n00:04:33,914 --> 00:04:46,087\n不想我們現在2024年的時候我們兵員假設我們16萬假設我現在就要維持這個該幸福人員1比4400的這配比的話其實我們預計2029年的時候我們的兵員會到26萬哦將近27萬哦如果我就算要維持1比400\n\n14\n00:04:54,025 --> 00:05:11,268\n照理來說我的新府人增加的數字而且我也假設就是剛才說的85%的邊線比的話我新府人會需要增加到650甚至編制人員要增加到765恐怕是比現在要多出300位其實這個數字是很高的\n\n15\n00:05:12,216 --> 00:05:30,546\n那部長,針對這個數字,我們接下來5年內要再增加300位喔,部長有沒有什麼想法?可以啊,要逐年進步嘛,現在兵員如果來得一無一多,從一無一當中也可以做一個選員啦。部長,你現在講的沒有錯,但是我現在就是說,這個事情是我們要提前預備的,部長應該同意嘛,對不對?\n\n16\n00:05:32,287 --> 00:05:51,583\n因為我們就算從我們的政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話他們的這個系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個啊對不對所以我們勢必恐怕是要從沒錯要從義務域的域官或者是新府官裡面來去支撐可是我們又需要\n\n17\n00:05:52,828 --> 00:06:15,840\n是專業的,你也不能濫於充數。」所以我們現在可能要做的事情是什麼?我們現在變成是不是甚至要提前預備去到我們教育部下面有相關的心理或社會工作諮商相關的系所裡面,擴大來跟他們爭取,鼓勵他們來報考、預官、預試,你才有辦法因應你接下來5年要300位的這個需求啊?\n\n18\n00:06:16,963 --> 00:06:42,712\n所以我今天這個質詢我知道大家現在越來越重視而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代對於新府資源的看重的程度一定會比過去來的更高在這個同時我剛才還都只是用1比400算喔我還沒有算說假設我們要不要調高到1比350或1比300我還沒有用這個角度去算喔我們就需要300名的話\n\n19\n00:06:44,713 --> 00:07:07,758\n我們不預先準備是不行的我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠我們的方向上能不能夠這不是我平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的或者是我自己去海巡我現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來不是這是我們要先做準備的事情啊好不好部長所以我剛才說\n\n20\n00:07:08,638 --> 00:07:30,036\n第一,我們應該先建立接下來我們邊線比的標準是什麼?應該仿照我們在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力這個是專業評估這部分交給國防部可是要有一個標準我們才有目標才不會現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少\n\n21\n00:07:30,356 --> 00:07:39,258\n可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。」就像之前我記得聽到地域委員包括大家其實也質詢其實他的人力負擔其實已經過重了\n\n22\n00:07:40,529 --> 00:08:04,231\n所以我們可不可以先第一個部長建立標準沒有問題嗎?對不對?第二個,剛才說到5年後我們要多300至少300位啊那這部分提前準備的話假設不是只是從政戰學院的話從外部的校園裡面要去找到專業的系所裡面去找到他們考預冠預試這也要相關的工作計畫來去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募這部分部長有可以嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:04,791 --> 00:08:07,033\n徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7249\t8594\t請邱部長 部長請\n17486\t22690\t徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。\n46628\t51172\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n73888\t92662\t我剛才聽到部長其實也坦承說目前其實在軍中輔導的人力其實不足夠我剛才如果沒聽錯的話部長是這樣說的其實也不足但是現在的問題是那到底不足是多不足那想先問部長部長你知不知道現在新府人員的邊線比現在是多少一個新府官負責多少的縣員\n93752\t115788\t大約我們要將近1比400個人左右啦沒錯齁你看一下現在新府人目前編制大概是460那現有在390編線比大概85如果以16萬的軍力出估的話大概一位新府官大概負責400元沒有錯可是問題來了就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠那到底多不夠\n117419\t146635\t我們要達到的標準是什麼數字?目前1比400,對不對?那如果不夠,那是要達到什麼數字?部長。是,我跟委員報告,我所謂不夠怎麼樣,講說專業人員當然越多越好,但話講軍人有主任務,而且我們平常領導統一,為什麼這單位裡有這種建制,建制層層主管他就要負這個責,這也是領導統一的一環,所以這個來彌補,所以為什麼基本上我們就有三道關卡,可以做這些辛苦的工作。\n147095\t174773\t我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的\n175700\t178062\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n187984\t193827\t審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n216958\t236379\t預先來做準備,而不是現在有點像是有一天過一天,或者是反正有多的我就用,沒多的我也不預作準備,可是目前就不夠啊,副長。是,我跟委員報告,我是所以剛剛就講說概略不夠或夠,我是針對專業人員,專業人員到底要有多少數據,這我們可以大陸來一個課題研討。\n237600\t240061\t事件處理法草案案。三、審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n258027\t271533\t不懂,我們現在在講的欣甫仁丹指的是專業的嘛,他有這個方面專業的嘛,不是我今天要用各個不同的功能的我全部硬把它算進去,我覺得是在專業的部分,下面不懂我想給你看下面一個數據喔,再往下,再往下,再往下,好。\n273914\t286087\t不想我們現在2024年的時候我們兵員假設我們16萬假設我現在就要維持這個該幸福人員1比4400的這配比的話其實我們預計2029年的時候我們的兵員會到26萬哦將近27萬哦如果我就算要維持1比400\n294025\t311268\t照理來說我的新府人增加的數字而且我也假設就是剛才說的85%的邊線比的話我新府人會需要增加到650甚至編制人員要增加到765恐怕是比現在要多出300位其實這個數字是很高的\n312216\t330546\t那部長,針對這個數字,我們接下來5年內要再增加300位喔,部長有沒有什麼想法?可以啊,要逐年進步嘛,現在兵員如果來得一無一多,從一無一當中也可以做一個選員啦。部長,你現在講的沒有錯,但是我現在就是說,這個事情是我們要提前預備的,部長應該同意嘛,對不對?\n332287\t351583\t因為我們就算從我們的政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話他們的這個系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個啊對不對所以我們勢必恐怕是要從沒錯要從義務域的域官或者是新府官裡面來去支撐可是我們又需要\n352828\t375840\t是專業的,你也不能濫於充數。」所以我們現在可能要做的事情是什麼?我們現在變成是不是甚至要提前預備去到我們教育部下面有相關的心理或社會工作諮商相關的系所裡面,擴大來跟他們爭取,鼓勵他們來報考、預官、預試,你才有辦法因應你接下來5年要300位的這個需求啊?\n376963\t402712\t所以我今天這個質詢我知道大家現在越來越重視而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代對於新府資源的看重的程度一定會比過去來的更高在這個同時我剛才還都只是用1比400算喔我還沒有算說假設我們要不要調高到1比350或1比300我還沒有用這個角度去算喔我們就需要300名的話\n404713\t427758\t我們不預先準備是不行的我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠我們的方向上能不能夠這不是我平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的或者是我自己去海巡我現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來不是這是我們要先做準備的事情啊好不好部長所以我剛才說\n428638\t450036\t第一,我們應該先建立接下來我們邊線比的標準是什麼?應該仿照我們在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力這個是專業評估這部分交給國防部可是要有一個標準我們才有目標才不會現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少\n450356\t459258\t可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。」就像之前我記得聽到地域委員包括大家其實也質詢其實他的人力負擔其實已經過重了\n460529\t484231\t所以我們可不可以先第一個部長建立標準沒有問題嗎?對不對?第二個,剛才說到5年後我們要多300至少300位啊那這部分提前準備的話假設不是只是從政戰學院的話從外部的校園裡面要去找到專業的系所裡面去找到他們考預冠預試這也要相關的工作計畫來去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募這部分部長有可以嗎?\n484791\t487033\t徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。\n","txt":"請邱部長 部長請\n徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n我剛才聽到部長其實也坦承說目前其實在軍中輔導的人力其實不足夠我剛才如果沒聽錯的話部長是這樣說的其實也不足但是現在的問題是那到底不足是多不足那想先問部長部長你知不知道現在新府人員的邊線比現在是多少一個新府官負責多少的縣員\n大約我們要將近1比400個人左右啦沒錯齁你看一下現在新府人目前編制大概是460那現有在390編線比大概85如果以16萬的軍力出估的話大概一位新府官大概負責400元沒有錯可是問題來了就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠那到底多不夠\n我們要達到的標準是什麼數字?目前1比400,對不對?那如果不夠,那是要達到什麼數字?部長。是,我跟委員報告,我所謂不夠怎麼樣,講說專業人員當然越多越好,但話講軍人有主任務,而且我們平常領導統一,為什麼這單位裡有這種建制,建制層層主管他就要負這個責,這也是領導統一的一環,所以這個來彌補,所以為什麼基本上我們就有三道關卡,可以做這些辛苦的工作。\n我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n預先來做準備,而不是現在有點像是有一天過一天,或者是反正有多的我就用,沒多的我也不預作準備,可是目前就不夠啊,副長。是,我跟委員報告,我是所以剛剛就講說概略不夠或夠,我是針對專業人員,專業人員到底要有多少數據,這我們可以大陸來一個課題研討。\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n不懂,我們現在在講的欣甫仁丹指的是專業的嘛,他有這個方面專業的嘛,不是我今天要用各個不同的功能的我全部硬把它算進去,我覺得是在專業的部分,下面不懂我想給你看下面一個數據喔,再往下,再往下,再往下,好。\n不想我們現在2024年的時候我們兵員假設我們16萬假設我現在就要維持這個該幸福人員1比4400的這配比的話其實我們預計2029年的時候我們的兵員會到26萬哦將近27萬哦如果我就算要維持1比400\n照理來說我的新府人增加的數字而且我也假設就是剛才說的85%的邊線比的話我新府人會需要增加到650甚至編制人員要增加到765恐怕是比現在要多出300位其實這個數字是很高的\n那部長,針對這個數字,我們接下來5年內要再增加300位喔,部長有沒有什麼想法?可以啊,要逐年進步嘛,現在兵員如果來得一無一多,從一無一當中也可以做一個選員啦。部長,你現在講的沒有錯,但是我現在就是說,這個事情是我們要提前預備的,部長應該同意嘛,對不對?\n因為我們就算從我們的政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話他們的這個系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個啊對不對所以我們勢必恐怕是要從沒錯要從義務域的域官或者是新府官裡面來去支撐可是我們又需要\n是專業的,你也不能濫於充數。」所以我們現在可能要做的事情是什麼?我們現在變成是不是甚至要提前預備去到我們教育部下面有相關的心理或社會工作諮商相關的系所裡面,擴大來跟他們爭取,鼓勵他們來報考、預官、預試,你才有辦法因應你接下來5年要300位的這個需求啊?\n所以我今天這個質詢我知道大家現在越來越重視而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代對於新府資源的看重的程度一定會比過去來的更高在這個同時我剛才還都只是用1比400算喔我還沒有算說假設我們要不要調高到1比350或1比300我還沒有用這個角度去算喔我們就需要300名的話\n我們不預先準備是不行的我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠我們的方向上能不能夠這不是我平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的或者是我自己去海巡我現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來不是這是我們要先做準備的事情啊好不好部長所以我剛才說\n第一,我們應該先建立接下來我們邊線比的標準是什麼?應該仿照我們在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力這個是專業評估這部分交給國防部可是要有一個標準我們才有目標才不會現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少\n可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。」就像之前我記得聽到地域委員包括大家其實也質詢其實他的人力負擔其實已經過重了\n所以我們可不可以先第一個部長建立標準沒有問題嗎?對不對?第二個,剛才說到5年後我們要多300至少300位啊那這部分提前準備的話假設不是只是從政戰學院的話從外部的校園裡面要去找到專業的系所裡面去找到他們考預冠預試這也要相關的工作計畫來去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募這部分部長有可以嗎?\n徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.249 --> 00:08.594\n請邱部長部長請\n\n00:17.486 --> 00:22.690\n徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。\n\n00:46.628 --> 00:51.172\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n01:13.888 --> 01:32.662\n我剛才聽到部長其實也坦承說目前其實在軍中輔導的人力其實不足夠我剛才如果沒聽錯的話部長是這樣說的其實也不足但是現在的問題是那到底不足是多不足那想先問部長部長你知不知道現在新府人員的邊線比現在是多少一個新府官負責多少的縣員\n\n01:33.752 --> 01:55.788\n大約我們要將近1比400個人左右啦沒錯齁你看一下現在新府人目前編制大概是460那現有在390編線比大概85如果以16萬的軍力出估的話大概一位新府官大概負責400元沒有錯可是問題來了就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠那到底多不夠\n\n01:57.419 --> 02:26.635\n我們要達到的標準是什麼數字?目前1比400,對不對?那如果不夠,那是要達到什麼數字?部長。是,我跟委員報告,我所謂不夠怎麼樣,講說專業人員當然越多越好,但話講軍人有主任務,而且我們平常領導統一,為什麼這單位裡有這種建制,建制層層主管他就要負這個責,這也是領導統一的一環,所以這個來彌補,所以為什麼基本上我們就有三道關卡,可以做這些辛苦的工作。\n\n02:27.095 --> 02:54.773\n我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的\n\n02:55.700 --> 02:58.062\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n03:07.984 --> 03:13.827\n審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人\n\n03:36.958 --> 03:56.379\n預先來做準備,而不是現在有點像是有一天過一天,或者是反正有多的我就用,沒多的我也不預作準備,可是目前就不夠啊,副長。是,我跟委員報告,我是所以剛剛就講說概略不夠或夠,我是針對專業人員,專業人員到底要有多少數據,這我們可以大陸來一個課題研討。\n\n03:57.600 --> 04:00.061\n事件處理法草案案。三、審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具\n\n04:18.027 --> 04:31.533\n不懂,我們現在在講的欣甫仁丹指的是專業的嘛,他有這個方面專業的嘛,不是我今天要用各個不同的功能的我全部硬把它算進去,我覺得是在專業的部分,下面不懂我想給你看下面一個數據喔,再往下,再往下,再往下,好。\n\n04:33.914 --> 04:46.087\n不想我們現在2024年的時候我們兵員假設我們16萬假設我現在就要維持這個該幸福人員1比4400的這配比的話其實我們預計2029年的時候我們的兵員會到26萬哦將近27萬哦如果我就算要維持1比400\n\n04:54.025 --> 05:11.268\n照理來說我的新府人增加的數字而且我也假設就是剛才說的85%的邊線比的話我新府人會需要增加到650甚至編制人員要增加到765恐怕是比現在要多出300位其實這個數字是很高的\n\n05:12.216 --> 05:30.546\n那部長,針對這個數字,我們接下來5年內要再增加300位喔,部長有沒有什麼想法?可以啊,要逐年進步嘛,現在兵員如果來得一無一多,從一無一當中也可以做一個選員啦。部長,你現在講的沒有錯,但是我現在就是說,這個事情是我們要提前預備的,部長應該同意嘛,對不對?\n\n05:32.287 --> 05:51.583\n因為我們就算從我們的政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話他們的這個系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個啊對不對所以我們勢必恐怕是要從沒錯要從義務域的域官或者是新府官裡面來去支撐可是我們又需要\n\n05:52.828 --> 06:15.840\n是專業的,你也不能濫於充數。」所以我們現在可能要做的事情是什麼?我們現在變成是不是甚至要提前預備去到我們教育部下面有相關的心理或社會工作諮商相關的系所裡面,擴大來跟他們爭取,鼓勵他們來報考、預官、預試,你才有辦法因應你接下來5年要300位的這個需求啊?\n\n06:16.963 --> 06:42.712\n所以我今天這個質詢我知道大家現在越來越重視而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代對於新府資源的看重的程度一定會比過去來的更高在這個同時我剛才還都只是用1比400算喔我還沒有算說假設我們要不要調高到1比350或1比300我還沒有用這個角度去算喔我們就需要300名的話\n\n06:44.713 --> 07:07.758\n我們不預先準備是不行的我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠我們的方向上能不能夠這不是我平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的或者是我自己去海巡我現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來不是這是我們要先做準備的事情啊好不好部長所以我剛才說\n\n07:08.638 --> 07:30.036\n第一,我們應該先建立接下來我們邊線比的標準是什麼?應該仿照我們在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力這個是專業評估這部分交給國防部可是要有一個標準我們才有目標才不會現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少\n\n07:30.356 --> 07:39.258\n可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。」就像之前我記得聽到地域委員包括大家其實也質詢其實他的人力負擔其實已經過重了\n\n07:40.529 --> 08:04.231\n所以我們可不可以先第一個部長建立標準沒有問題嗎?對不對?第二個,剛才說到5年後我們要多300至少300位啊那這部分提前準備的話假設不是只是從政戰學院的話從外部的校園裡面要去找到專業的系所裡面去找到他們考預冠預試這也要相關的工作計畫來去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募這部分部長有可以嗎?\n\n08:04.791 --> 08:07.033\n徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.249,"end":8.594,"text":"請邱部長 部長請"},{"start":17.486,"end":22.69,"text":"徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。三、審查本院委員徐巧芯等20人擬具《陸海空軍懲罰法》案。"},{"start":46.628,"end":51.172,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人"},{"start":73.888,"end":92.662,"text":"我剛才聽到部長其實也坦承說目前其實在軍中輔導的人力其實不足夠我剛才如果沒聽錯的話部長是這樣說的其實也不足但是現在的問題是那到底不足是多不足那想先問部長部長你知不知道現在新府人員的邊線比現在是多少一個新府官負責多少的縣員"},{"start":93.752,"end":115.788,"text":"大約我們要將近1比400個人左右啦沒錯齁你看一下現在新府人目前編制大概是460那現有在390編線比大概85如果以16萬的軍力出估的話大概一位新府官大概負責400元沒有錯可是問題來了就像剛剛部長說你也覺得不夠那到底多不夠"},{"start":117.419,"end":146.635,"text":"我們要達到的標準是什麼數字?目前1比400,對不對?那如果不夠,那是要達到什麼數字?部長。是,我跟委員報告,我所謂不夠怎麼樣,講說專業人員當然越多越好,但話講軍人有主任務,而且我們平常領導統一,為什麼這單位裡有這種建制,建制層層主管他就要負這個責,這也是領導統一的一環,所以這個來彌補,所以為什麼基本上我們就有三道關卡,可以做這些辛苦的工作。"},{"start":147.095,"end":174.773,"text":"我同意絕對我們不是靠新府資源來去處理所有的問題我完全同意可是就目前為止相比於其他的單位我剛才說到包括像在醫療機構包括像在校園裡面其實大概都有一個我們新府官設要多少編制的一個目標現在我們確實看到大家越來越重視在軍中的這些事件裡面目前反而是在軍隊裡面是沒有的"},{"start":175.7,"end":178.062,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具"},{"start":187.984,"end":193.827,"text":"審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人審查行政院徐巧芯等20人"},{"start":216.958,"end":236.379,"text":"預先來做準備,而不是現在有點像是有一天過一天,或者是反正有多的我就用,沒多的我也不預作準備,可是目前就不夠啊,副長。是,我跟委員報告,我是所以剛剛就講說概略不夠或夠,我是針對專業人員,專業人員到底要有多少數據,這我們可以大陸來一個課題研討。"},{"start":237.6,"end":240.061,"text":"事件處理法草案案。三、審查行政院徐巧芯等20人擬具"},{"start":258.027,"end":271.533,"text":"不懂,我們現在在講的欣甫仁丹指的是專業的嘛,他有這個方面專業的嘛,不是我今天要用各個不同的功能的我全部硬把它算進去,我覺得是在專業的部分,下面不懂我想給你看下面一個數據喔,再往下,再往下,再往下,好。"},{"start":273.914,"end":286.087,"text":"不想我們現在2024年的時候我們兵員假設我們16萬假設我現在就要維持這個該幸福人員1比4400的這配比的話其實我們預計2029年的時候我們的兵員會到26萬哦將近27萬哦如果我就算要維持1比400"},{"start":294.025,"end":311.268,"text":"照理來說我的新府人增加的數字而且我也假設就是剛才說的85%的邊線比的話我新府人會需要增加到650甚至編制人員要增加到765恐怕是比現在要多出300位其實這個數字是很高的"},{"start":312.216,"end":330.546,"text":"那部長,針對這個數字,我們接下來5年內要再增加300位喔,部長有沒有什麼想法?可以啊,要逐年進步嘛,現在兵員如果來得一無一多,從一無一當中也可以做一個選員啦。部長,你現在講的沒有錯,但是我現在就是說,這個事情是我們要提前預備的,部長應該同意嘛,對不對?"},{"start":332.287,"end":351.583,"text":"因為我們就算從我們的政戰學院裡面的心理跟社工學系來看的話他們的這個系所畢業人數其實也不夠支撐這300個啊對不對所以我們勢必恐怕是要從沒錯要從義務域的域官或者是新府官裡面來去支撐可是我們又需要"},{"start":352.828,"end":375.84,"text":"是專業的,你也不能濫於充數。」所以我們現在可能要做的事情是什麼?我們現在變成是不是甚至要提前預備去到我們教育部下面有相關的心理或社會工作諮商相關的系所裡面,擴大來跟他們爭取,鼓勵他們來報考、預官、預試,你才有辦法因應你接下來5年要300位的這個需求啊?"},{"start":376.963,"end":402.712,"text":"所以我今天這個質詢我知道大家現在越來越重視而且我也覺得接下來下一個世代對於新府資源的看重的程度一定會比過去來的更高在這個同時我剛才還都只是用1比400算喔我還沒有算說假設我們要不要調高到1比350或1比300我還沒有用這個角度去算喔我們就需要300名的話"},{"start":404.713,"end":427.758,"text":"我們不預先準備是不行的我為什麼今天一定要把這量化的數據拿出來的原因是因為我們必須在量化的數據裡面才可以評估我們提前的準備跟作業的工作足不足夠我們的方向上能不能夠這不是我平常到大街上面去叫就可以叫來的或者是我自己去海巡我現在軍中的人員就可以多找一些來不是這是我們要先做準備的事情啊好不好部長所以我剛才說"},{"start":428.638,"end":450.036,"text":"第一,我們應該先建立接下來我們邊線比的標準是什麼?應該仿照我們在大專校園裡面或者是醫療機構裡面我們可以專業的評估到底需要多少人力這個是專業評估這部分交給國防部可是要有一個標準我們才有目標才不會現在的狀況是有多少我就用多少"},{"start":450.356,"end":459.258,"text":"可是我們明明知道恐怕是不足的。」就像之前我記得聽到地域委員包括大家其實也質詢其實他的人力負擔其實已經過重了"},{"start":460.529,"end":484.231,"text":"所以我們可不可以先第一個部長建立標準沒有問題嗎?對不對?第二個,剛才說到5年後我們要多300至少300位啊那這部分提前準備的話假設不是只是從政戰學院的話從外部的校園裡面要去找到專業的系所裡面去找到他們考預冠預試這也要相關的工作計畫來去進行擴大的招募或優先的招募這部分部長有可以嗎?"},{"start":484.791,"end":487.033,"text":"徐巧芯等20人擬事件處理法草案案。"}]}}}}