{"id":151650,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151650","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb38f8af9da5580c4415a1f541440a910baeadb1108e4b844328a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:07:52 - 11:16:36","影片長度":"00:08:44","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案4案。\n(4月24日及25日二天一次會)）","date":"2024-04-24","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-9"},"duration":524,"end_time":"2024-04-24T11:16:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-24T11:07:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":600,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時8分）麻煩請主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。因為我們核安會其實跟一般民眾的健康非常有關，我有注意到你們在2018、2019年，那時候還滿積極去查一些商品有沒有輻射超標的問題，而且都有發新聞稿，像2019年當時去稽查25件東西，就有18件產品是有輻射超標的；可是2019年之後，包括2020年、2021年、2022年，我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標商品就少很多，我不曉得是你們最近沒有配合消保處去稽查，還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據，所以想就這部分跟您請教一下，但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌，我現在是要針對標榜有負離子的商品，請主委可不可以稍微用1分鐘的時間跟大家講一下，負離子的東西是由哪些方式組成的？有哪些方式可以產生負離子？"],["陳主任委員東陽：它有一些是天然的。"],["葉委員元之：天然的？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，有一些是刻意添加、人工的。"],["葉委員元之：刻意添加？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。當然有一些是噱頭，就是商業的行銷。"],["葉委員元之：有一些是摩擦產生的、有一些是放電的。現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品，它是用什麼方式產生的負離子？"],["陳主任委員東陽：主要是刻意。"],["葉委員元之：刻意什麼？"],["陳主任委員東陽：就是intentional，刻意的去添加……"],["葉委員元之：如果它是添加的、磨成粉的，然後混在商品上，就比較容易造成輻射超標，之前有床墊被你們稽查到，就是因為這樣產生的，對不對？請教一下，為什麼到了2020年、2021年、2022年，我這邊手上的資料，2020年只有稽查到3件輻射超標的商品，2021年只有2件，2022年只有1件，請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件商品？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我請張組長來回答，因為輻射……"],["葉委員元之：你不曉得？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["張組長淑君：報告委員，一開始2018年的時候引進了韓國的這種不當添加，所以我們那時候也有重視源頭，就是這種不當的粉的扣查……"],["葉委員元之：好啦！不用從盤古開天開始，我問你的很簡單啦，你們稽查幾件？一年稽查幾件？"],["張組長淑君：我們目前的話，跨部會跟標準檢驗局、衛福部食藥署的是40件。"],["葉委員元之：一年40件？"],["張組長淑君：對，但是……"],["葉委員元之：哪一年40件？"],["張組長淑君：一年我們……"],["葉委員元之：平均一年40件？"],["張組長淑君：對，但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候……"],["葉委員元之：怎麼那麼少？主委，怎麼那麼少？你們之前2018年、2019年那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的，說有的產品輻射超標76倍，然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變，當時發這新聞稿的時候，國人開始注意到負離子這件事情，結果後來到近3年，每一年只平均稽查40件，然後抽查的件數這麼少，代表你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想是這樣子，如果抽到的比率降低，那麼我們次數就可以少一點。"],["葉委員元之：廢話嗎？你要不要聽看看你自己在講什麼？你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點，我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來，結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點，你知道你在講什麼嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：葉委員，我講的是顛倒，我說如果發現比率降低，我們就可以抽少一點。"],["葉委員元之：不管發現比率多低，你抽40件還是非常少！如果平均40件、大概40件的話，你很多天才抽1件嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下，看怎麼樣是個合理的量。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！主委，其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了，你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係，因為你們發現比較少，而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據，你抽40樣就發現1件你怎麼知道這到底是多還少？這跟你抽的區域有關嘛！跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛！對不對？你如果是抽1,068件，符合統計的意義，發現逐漸下降，你講的搞不好還有道理，但你是抽40件，你就告訴我說現在越來越少，你也是學者嘛！你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎？請核安會站在大家的健康著想，好不好？因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：這當然是一定的。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！好啦！那不用再辯了啦，剛剛……對啊，好像一副要吵架的樣子，我現在講的是很民生的東西，好不好？","再來，既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全，我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題，因為我有看到主委你的受訪，針對國民黨的立委提出讓核電廠延役的事情，你說這個必須要有共識，然後核安會是負責安全技術的，對不對？能源政策不是你們制定的，但我要提醒主委，實際上你的一言一行，對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力的，為什麼？因為大家認為要不要有核電廠，其實是奠基在核電廠安不安全這件事情，如果核安會可以確保核電廠是安全的，當然大家會容易產生共識。我就請教主委，因為最近、昨天有地震什麼的，最近大家都很關心地震的話題嘛！403大地震，後來又有很多次的餘震，我想請教一下，在這一波的地震當中，核電廠有沒有發生問題？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有，0403核電廠的核一廠、核二廠有燃料池的水溢出……"],["葉委員元之：核一、核二？核一、核二都會停機啦！那核三有問題嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核三沒有問題。"],["葉委員元之：核三完全沒問題嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：因為它是在恆春，而這個震央在花蓮，在南部地區它的震度特別低，所以這個在氣象局的地震的……"],["葉委員元之：好，我請教一下，我們的核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震評估嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：當然有。"],["葉委員元之：大概可以耐震多少？幾級？"],["陳主任委員東陽：當然有，它有一定的停機標準，就是大到一定程度的時候，它就自動shut down、就自動停機。"],["葉委員元之：所以即便震央在屏東，發生那麼大的地震，其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個是有風險啦！"],["葉委員元之：又有風險？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，我跟委員報告，比如說核一、核二有水溢出來，這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮，但是核一、核二廠，你知道它的震度多少嗎？它是2%到3%的重力加速度，所以是相對低的，也就是說在那個區塊、在那個地點，它的震度是低的，所以它是相對地安全。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，你不要重複，我現在問你是說核電廠如果面臨到像震度這麼大的話，它可不可以撐得過去，我現在在問你這個問題。"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個是有一定的風險……"],["葉委員元之：對，好，你不好回答，沒關係啦！主委，我想請教一下，因為我現在看起來，民進黨政府對核電，感覺是有點轉彎了啦！為什麼呢？因為像有一個企業家童子賢，本來他是堅決反核的，但他現在立場也改了，開始願意接受核電了，然後童子賢之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長，可見現在的民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦，請教一下，你最近有沒有接到什麼指示，跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸要開放的方向，有沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，完全沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["葉委員元之：因為上一次我們在質詢你的時候，你講了一句很耐人尋味的話，你說核電安不安全你不知道，有發生事情就是不安全，沒發生事情就是安全，這句話很玄啦！我也參透滿久的啦！請教一下，我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答，因為時間到了，我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度，對不對？這是你們工作嘛！"],["陳主任委員東陽：這是一定的。"],["葉委員元之：對外的發言，我覺得也應該要秉持著自己的專業跟良心，不應該配合執政者的意識型態，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員東陽：一定，謝謝葉委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員，主委請回。","好，我們接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-9","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葉元之","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","范雲","張嘉郡","吳春城"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽、外交部、交通部、衛生福利部、農業部、海洋委員會\n列席就「我國周遭海域含氚廢水監控與因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查 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0.538}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,461 --> 00:00:07,862\n麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件\n\n2\n00:00:35,255 --> 00:01:01,465\n18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據啦所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下那但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌\n\n3\n00:01:02,465 --> 00:01:16,452\n因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子\n\n4\n00:01:18,472 --> 00:01:42,842\n有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子\n\n5\n00:01:44,090 --> 00:02:12,190\n主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射鈔票嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射鈔票的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件\n\n6\n00:02:14,351 --> 00:02:38,071\n請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個扣卡不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個\n\n7\n00:02:45,818 --> 00:03:00,677\n標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少主委怎麼那麼少\n\n8\n00:03:02,213 --> 00:03:28,056\n你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎\n\n9\n00:03:30,583 --> 00:03:58,175\n我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點\n\n10\n00:03:59,739 --> 00:04:10,507\n對,40,不管是發現比例多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概5天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛\n\n11\n00:04:12,052 --> 00:04:35,224\n這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量對啦所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這到多少這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛\n\n12\n00:04:36,104 --> 00:04:49,123\n對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎\n\n13\n00:04:52,035 --> 00:05:15,566\n請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛那這當然是一定的對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很民生東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到竹偉你的受訪\n\n14\n00:05:16,767 --> 00:05:38,099\n你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是\n\n15\n00:05:39,559 --> 00:05:57,612\n電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題\n\n16\n00:06:01,489 --> 00:06:24,066\n呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個\n\n17\n00:06:26,669 --> 00:06:46,947\n核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有,它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定程度的時候它就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:49,898 --> 00:07:14,814\n這個是有一點有風險有風險對對對我跟委員報告比如說核一核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一核二場你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是\n\n19\n00:07:15,254 --> 00:07:21,338\n主委我想請教一下因為我現在看起來民進黨政府對核電感覺是有點轉彎的啦因為為什麼呢因為像有一個企業家童子賢本來他是堅決反核的但他現在立場也改了開始\n\n20\n00:07:44,975 --> 00:08:06,248\n願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有\n\n21\n00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:32,052\n那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透滿久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛\n\n22\n00:08:32,572 --> 00:08:40,987\n這一定的那對外的發言我覺得也應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好謝謝謝謝葉委員好謝謝葉原池委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5461\t7862\t麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件\n35255\t61465\t18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據啦所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下那但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌\n62465\t76452\t因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子\n78472\t102842\t有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子\n104090\t132190\t主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射鈔票嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射鈔票的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件\n134351\t158071\t請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個扣卡不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個\n165818\t180677\t標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對 但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少 主委怎麼那麼少\n182213\t208056\t你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎\n210583\t238175\t我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點\n239739\t250507\t對,40,不管是發現比例多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概5天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛\n252052\t275224\t這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量對啦所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這到多少這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛\n276104\t289123\t對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎\n292035\t315566\t請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛那這當然是一定的對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很民生東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到竹偉你的受訪\n316767\t338099\t你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是\n339559\t357612\t電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題\n361489\t384066\t呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個\n386669\t406947\t核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有,它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定程度的時候它就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎?\n409898\t434814\t這個是有一點有風險有風險對對對我跟委員報告比如說核一核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一核二場你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是\n435254\t441338\t主委 我想請教一下因為我現在看起來民進黨政府對核電感覺是有點轉彎的啦因為為什麼呢因為像有一個企業家童子賢本來他是堅決反核的但他現在立場也改了開始\n464975\t486248\t願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有\n486570\t512052\t那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透滿久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛\n512572\t520987\t這一定的那對外的發言我覺得也應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好 謝謝謝謝葉委員好 謝謝葉原池委員\n","txt":"麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件\n18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據啦所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下那但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌\n因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子\n有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子\n主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射鈔票嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射鈔票的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件\n請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個扣卡不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個\n標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對 但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少 主委怎麼那麼少\n你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎\n我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點\n對,40,不管是發現比例多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概5天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛\n這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量對啦所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這到多少這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛\n對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎\n請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛那這當然是一定的對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很民生東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到竹偉你的受訪\n你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是\n電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題\n呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個\n核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有,它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定程度的時候它就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎?\n這個是有一點有風險有風險對對對我跟委員報告比如說核一核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一核二場你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是\n主委 我想請教一下因為我現在看起來民進黨政府對核電感覺是有點轉彎的啦因為為什麼呢因為像有一個企業家童子賢本來他是堅決反核的但他現在立場也改了開始\n願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有\n那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透滿久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛\n這一定的那對外的發言我覺得也應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好 謝謝謝謝葉委員好 謝謝葉原池委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.461 --> 00:07.862\n麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件\n\n00:35.255 --> 01:01.465\n18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據啦所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下那但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌\n\n01:02.465 --> 01:16.452\n因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子\n\n01:18.472 --> 01:42.842\n有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子\n\n01:44.090 --> 02:12.190\n主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射鈔票嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射鈔票的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件\n\n02:14.351 --> 02:38.071\n請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個扣卡不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個\n\n02:45.818 --> 03:00.677\n標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少主委怎麼那麼少\n\n03:02.213 --> 03:28.056\n你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎\n\n03:30.583 --> 03:58.175\n我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點\n\n03:59.739 --> 04:10.507\n對,40,不管是發現比例多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概5天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛\n\n04:12.052 --> 04:35.224\n這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量對啦所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這到多少這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛\n\n04:36.104 --> 04:49.123\n對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎\n\n04:52.035 --> 05:15.566\n請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛那這當然是一定的對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很民生東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到竹偉你的受訪\n\n05:16.767 --> 05:38.099\n你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是\n\n05:39.559 --> 05:57.612\n電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題\n\n06:01.489 --> 06:24.066\n呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個\n\n06:26.669 --> 06:46.947\n核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有,它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定程度的時候它就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎?\n\n06:49.898 --> 07:14.814\n這個是有一點有風險有風險對對對我跟委員報告比如說核一核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一核二場你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是\n\n07:15.254 --> 07:21.338\n主委我想請教一下因為我現在看起來民進黨政府對核電感覺是有點轉彎的啦因為為什麼呢因為像有一個企業家童子賢本來他是堅決反核的但他現在立場也改了開始\n\n07:44.975 --> 08:06.248\n願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有\n\n08:06.570 --> 08:32.052\n那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透滿久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛\n\n08:32.572 --> 08:40.987\n這一定的那對外的發言我覺得也應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好謝謝謝謝葉委員好謝謝葉原池委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.461,"end":7.862,"text":"麻煩請主委,謝謝好,有請陳主委主委好,因為我們核安會其實跟我們一般民眾的健康非常有關我有注意到你們其實在2018、2019年那時候還蠻積極去查一些我們的商品有沒有輻射超標的問題還有都有發新聞稿當時像2019年說去棲查25件東西就有18件"},{"start":35.255,"end":61.465,"text":"18件的產品它是有輻射超標的可是2019年之後包括2020、2021、2022我們看到好像被查到的輻射超標的商品就少很多因為我不曉得說是你們最近沒有配合消保出去稽查還是說我得到的數據是不精準的數據啦所以想就這個部分跟你請教一下那但是我也不想要讓大家產生恐慌"},{"start":62.465,"end":76.452,"text":"因為我現在是要針對有負離子標榜有負離子的商品請主委先稍微可不可以一分鐘跟大家講一下我們這個負離子的東西它是由哪些方式組成的有哪些方式可以產生負離子"},{"start":78.472,"end":102.842,"text":"有一些是天然的有一些是特意添加當然有一些是噱頭就是商業的行銷有一些是摩擦產生有一些是放電的我們現在比較有可能會造成輻射超標的負離子產品它是用什麼方式產生的負離子"},{"start":104.09,"end":132.19,"text":"主要是刻意啦刻意什麼就是intentionally就是說刻意的去添加添加的嘛就是如果說它是添加的磨成粉的然後混到商品上的就比較容易產生輻射鈔票嘛那有一些床墊之前有床墊被你們稽查到就是因為這樣產生的嘛對不對那請教一下為什麼到了2020、2021我這邊手上資料2020年只有稽查到三件輻射鈔票的商品2021只有兩件2022只有一件"},{"start":134.351,"end":158.071,"text":"請問一下你們每一年總共稽查幾件?幾件商品?那個我請張組長來回答你不曉得報告委員一開始2018年的時候就是等於是跟就是引進了韓國的這種不當添加所以我們那時候也有重視源頭就是這種不當的那個那個粉粉的一個扣卡不用盤古開天我問很簡單啦你們稽查幾件?我們目前的話跨部會跟那個"},{"start":165.818,"end":180.677,"text":"標準檢驗局跟我們的衛福部要數這邊我們是40件一年40件哪一年40件平均一年40件對 但是實際上有一些是真正買的時候怎麼那麼少 主委怎麼那麼少"},{"start":182.213,"end":208.056,"text":"你們之前2018、2019那時候把這種負離子輻射超標講得超恐怖的耶說有的產品輻射超標76倍然後會造成血液跟細胞的病變當時發這新聞稿的時候國人開始注意到負離子這件事情結果後來到近三年每一年只平均積查40件然後抽查的件數這麼的少那代表說你們現在忽然覺得負離子的產品輻射超標不重要了嗎"},{"start":210.583,"end":238.175,"text":"我想是這樣子就是說如果抽到的比率降低那麼我們這個次數就可以少一點廢話嘛你現在你聽聽看你自己在講什麼你說抽少一點就可以發現少一點我們現在是希望核安會找到多一點有問題的商品出來結果你告訴我說抽少一點就可以發現少一點業委員業委員我講的是顛倒我說如果發現比率降低我們就可以抽少一點"},{"start":239.739,"end":250.507,"text":"對,40,不管是發現比例多低啦你抽40件還是非常的少啦你40件是平均大概5天才,大概40件的話你很多天才抽一件嘛"},{"start":252.052,"end":275.224,"text":"這個部分我想我們可以再來評估一下看怎麼樣合理的量對啦所以其實我們在這邊是提醒你抽太少了那你居然回答我說可以抽少一點沒關係因為我們發現比較少而且你這個抽樣也不符合統計上的數據啊你怎麼知道你抽40樣就發現一件這到多少這跟你抽的區域有關嘛跟你抽的樣品的對象有關嘛"},{"start":276.104,"end":289.123,"text":"對不對你如果是抽1068件符合統計的意義發現逐漸的下降你講的搞不好還有道理啊你是抽40件你就告訴我說現在越來越少這在統計上你也是學者嘛你覺得這在統計上有意義嗎"},{"start":292.035,"end":315.566,"text":"請核安會站在大家的健康著想好不好因為是你告訴大家負離子的東西很嚴重嘛那這當然是一定的對嘛那不用再變了啦剛剛好像一副要吵架的樣子我今天講的是很民生東西啦好不好再來啦既然核安會這麼重視我們的安全我想問一下這個有關於我還是想問一下有關於核電的問題因為我有看到竹偉你的受訪"},{"start":316.767,"end":338.099,"text":"你針對國民黨的立委有要提出要讓核電廠演繹的事情你說這個必須要有共識然後核安會是負責安全技術的對不對那個能源政策不是你們制定但我要提醒主委實際上你的一言一行對於社會能不能凝聚共識也是有影響力為什麼因為大家認為要不要有核電廠其實是"},{"start":339.559,"end":357.612,"text":"電機在核電廠安不安全這件事情如果核安會可以確保說核電廠是安全的當然大家會容易產生共識那我就請教主委因為最近昨天地震什麼最近大家都很關心地震話題嘛403大地震後來又有很多次的餘震我想請教一下在這一波地震的這個問題當中核電廠有沒有發生問題"},{"start":361.489,"end":384.066,"text":"呃沒有合一零零四零三核電廠、核一廠、核二廠那麼有燃料池的水核一核二核一核二都會停機啦那核三有問題嗎核三沒有問題核三完全沒問題嘛因為他是在恆春那麼這個震度齁在這個花蓮那麼在南部地區他的震度特別低齁所以這個在氣象局的那個"},{"start":386.669,"end":406.947,"text":"核電廠當初在蓋的時候有做過耐震的評估嗎?大概可以耐震多少?幾級?當然有,它有一定的停機的標準就是說你到達一定程度的時候它就自動停機所以即便是正央在屏東發生那麼大的地震其實核電廠應該還是可以撐得住嗎?"},{"start":409.898,"end":434.814,"text":"這個是有一點有風險有風險對對對我跟委員報告比如說核一核二水溢出來那麼這一次是7.2級的地震在花蓮但是核一核二場你知道它的震度多少嗎它是2%到3%的重力加速度所以是相對的低的也就是說在那個區塊在那個地點它的震度是"},{"start":435.254,"end":441.338,"text":"主委 我想請教一下因為我現在看起來民進黨政府對核電感覺是有點轉彎的啦因為為什麼呢因為像有一個企業家童子賢本來他是堅決反核的但他現在立場也改了開始"},{"start":464.975,"end":486.248,"text":"願意接受核電了我想然後同時前之前又被徵詢要不要當行政院長可見現在民進黨高層是認為核電不是說不能用啦請教一下你最近有沒有接到什麼指示跟你講說有關於核電的發言要傾向於逐漸這個要開放的方向有沒有沒有沒有完全沒有沒有"},{"start":486.57,"end":512.052,"text":"那因為你上一次我們在質詢你的時候你講了一句很耐人尋味的話啦你說核電安不安全你不知道有發生事情就是不安全沒發生事情就是安全這句話很玄啦我也參透滿久的啦那請問那請教一下這個剛剛因為我剛剛問的問題你沒有回答啦你沒有回答啦那我希望說核電因為時間到了啦我們還是希望核安會可以秉持著讓核電安全的角度對不對這是你們的工作嘛"},{"start":512.572,"end":520.987,"text":"這一定的那對外的發言我覺得也應該秉持著自己的專業跟良心不應該配合執政者的意識形態好 謝謝謝謝葉委員好 謝謝葉原池委員"}]}}}}